Trade 'em or keep 'em [Archive]

thethe

09-21-2013, 04:17 PM

I disagree with CJ and Justin. You have to hold onto them for one mroe year for different reasons.

With CJ, we just don't have another option and its going to cost pieces to get someone else.

For Justin, I don't think you are going to get great value for him. I don't know if he is a big time extension candidate anymore and it seems he has been overrated by a large margin but I'm willing to wait another year to see if he realizes some more of his potential.

Heyward

09-21-2013, 04:54 PM

Agree except on CJ and JUp.

Who replaces CJ?

Not sure JUp is a superstar but not like we have any better options.

We don't really need to re-sign Venters, if they offer him arbitration, he's back.

Mac depends how much he's looking for, really.

Dalyn

09-21-2013, 05:10 PM

PawPawMaxwell

09-21-2013, 06:26 PM

CJ - Keep him.

BJ - Keep him.

Justin - Keep him.

McCann - Let him go.

Huddy - Offer him around six million with an eight to ten million dollar team option.

Medlen - Keep him.

Uggla - Trade or make him earn the starting job.

Venters - Bring back.

Carpenter - Keep him.

Schafer - Bring back.

EJ - Bring back.

Reed - Pick up option.
CJ keep him another year
BJ Unfortunately have no recourse
JU Trade him for Profar (Texas will probably need an OFer and Profar has no position
Mac Let him go
Tim One year at 6 with a mutual option and a buy out for loyalty
Medlen Keep him
Uggla Trade or release him. Just put him out of my misery
Venters Non tender Too risky to keep
Carpenter keep him
Shafer Let him go or trade away
EJ If we can get Profar and bring up La Stella NO NEED for EJ
Reed Let him go. Too fungible
I would look to trade Kimbrel for Castellanos plus
Possibly bid on Josh Johnson
Sign AJ Pierzynski or similar LH batting catcher

thethe

09-21-2013, 06:38 PM

Upton for Profar?

Thats an interesting deal if Texas would accept.

PawPawMaxwell

09-21-2013, 06:50 PM

Upton for Profar?

Thats an interesting deal if Texas would accept.
Texas will in all likelyhood need an OFer since Cruz may not return. Profar really has no position with Andrus signing long term and Kinsler refusing to move off 2nd.

No more farfetched than most internet trade proposals.

NYCBrave

09-21-2013, 07:39 PM

Texas will in all likelyhood need an OFer since Cruz may not return. Profar really has no position with Andrus signing long term and Kinsler refusing to move off 2nd.

No more farfetched than most internet trade proposals.

And then what do we do with Uggla? Trade him? Cut him?

Heyward

09-21-2013, 08:16 PM

Who plays in the outfield if that happens, don't say Schafer.

NYCBrave

09-21-2013, 08:23 PM

Who plays in the outfield if that happens, don't say Schafer.

Bethancourt catch and Gattis in LF, or Terdo gets a shot in LF?

bravesnumberone

09-21-2013, 08:42 PM

So wait, wait, wait.

So we sign big brother to a large contract, and he absolutely sucks his first year. Then we trade his far more productive, although not quite MVP-level younger brother?

PawPawMaxwell

09-21-2013, 08:42 PM

And then what do we do with Uggla? Trade him? Cut him?
You can do anything you want with him if you get a replacement like Profar of even La Stella who either will cost minimal for next 2 years while eating Ugglas contract.

PawPawMaxwell

09-21-2013, 08:47 PM

So wait, wait, wait.

So we sign big brother to a large contract, and he absolutely sucks his first year. Then we trade his far more productive, although not quite MVP-level younger brother?
You have to decide soon who you want to keep 2 years down the road. BTW, havent you noticed that the grip it and rip it method isnt all that great.

bravesnumberone

09-21-2013, 08:58 PM

So wouldn't we give the two of them another year before we make that kind of decision, and if we're ready to just eat Uggla's money to sit his ass on the bench, or give La Stella an opportunity?

jsebe10

09-21-2013, 09:35 PM

So wouldn't we give the two of them another year before we make that kind of decision, and if we're ready to just eat Uggla's money to sit his ass on the bench, or give La Stella an opportunity?

Lol. Don't waste your time bro. Let the keyboard GMs suggest trading our team leader in HRs

Gary82

09-21-2013, 10:57 PM

Heyward keep
J Upton keep
Freeman keep
McCann keep
Gattis trade or keep, whatever
BJ Upton keep. no choice
Uggla drive him to an Alaskan wilderness and kick him out
Simmons keep
CJ keep

Hudson keep
Maholm let go
Medlen keep
Teheran keep
Wood keep
Minor keep

Kimbrel keep

keep. keep.

Deester11

09-22-2013, 01:47 AM

Lol. Don't waste your time bro. Let the keyboard GMs suggest trading our team leader in HRs

This. I have no idea what some people watch, but money or not, JUp shouldn't even be thought of with regards to a "trade him." This is not fantasy baseball and I'm certain that Wren is not worried about winning his fantasy draft by doing something that dumb! Now his brother.......

PawPawMaxwell

09-22-2013, 07:50 AM

This. I have no idea what some people watch, but money or not, JUp shouldn't even be thought of with regards to a "trade him." This is not fantasy baseball and I'm certain that Wren is not worried about winning his fantasy draft by doing something that dumb! Now his brother.......
Read the title of this thread. AFWIW, with the money available coming up in 2014 and the pitching staff that has been seasoned and what is available pitching wise in the minors, Wren can reallistically do what he wants with virtually every position player currently on the team and build any way he wants.

skillet

09-22-2013, 08:40 AM

PawPawMaxwell

09-22-2013, 08:49 AM

Upton for Profar?

Thats an interesting deal if Texas would accept.
Texas wanted Upton last off season, AZ wanted Profar. Texas refused BECAUSE they thought they had a deal with Kinsler to move to the OF. They knew Hamilton probably wouldnt be back and Cruz upcoming FA. The backfire was that Kinsler then decided with his big contract he wouldnt move off 2nd. BTW Texas has lots of middle IF prospects coming up. So IMO Profar is now redundant to Texas. OTOH, LaStella while intriguing to this board is not even considered a top 10 prospect by most raters.

yeezus

09-22-2013, 10:25 AM

Texas wanted Upton last off season, AZ wanted Profar. Texas refused BECAUSE they thought they had a deal with Kinsler to move to the OF. They knew Hamilton probably wouldnt be back and Cruz upcoming FA. The backfire was that Kinsler then decided with his big contract he wouldnt move off 2nd. BTW Texas has lots of middle IF prospects coming up. So IMO Profar is now redundant to Texas. OTOH, LaStella while intriguing to this board is not even considered a top 10 prospect by most raters.

I asked Jim Callis about LaStella and he doesn't think he can be a solid regular.

bp4de

09-22-2013, 12:00 PM

someone here seriously wants to trade kimbrel??? really??

PawPawMaxwell

09-22-2013, 12:10 PM

someone here seriously wants to trade kimbrel??? really??
Really. Let me ask you a question: Who is the best closer between Papelbon, Rivera, Soriano and Kimbrel? Then let me ask you how much each is paid. Then when you answer that question: Do you think Kimbrel isnt aware of his standing and paycheck relative to the other 3?

And finally, one more question, Do you think Atlanta can afford either of them now and Kimbrel later on?

PawPawMaxwell

09-23-2013, 04:40 AM

Per the MLBTradeRumors article re J Upton trade offer at deadline. Think that Texas is still interested in Upton? Will they get more real in dealing if he is put on the block?

thethe

09-23-2013, 05:42 AM

Pro far and Martin Perez please.

nsacpi

09-23-2013, 06:55 AM

It makes more sense to focus on what player or type of player we want to trade for than who to trade away.

Going into 2014, I think our area of greatest need is left-handed relief. And if a dominant starting pitcher becomes available, we should at least kick the tires.

bravebonebook

09-23-2013, 08:03 AM

C Johnson: keep him for at least one more year
BJ: have to keep him; just hope he returns to career norms
Jup: no way you trade him unless someone offers a ridiculously good package, like 3 or 4 for 1
McCann: make a nice, reasonable offer to try to keep him but don’t overpay in salary or years (and he better not sign with another NL East team a la Glavine…)
Huddy: make a reasonable offer to resign out of respect; he cannot end his Braves career on a sour note
Medlen: keep
Uggla: try to trade him but what could we possibly get for him??
Venters: resign, high risk (injury) but high reward if he is recovered
EOF: have to resign to build up the bullpen’s dominance again; don’t know if Downs is as good as we thought he was
Carpenter: resign
Schafer: resign for depth
EJ: resign, brings more to the team than Janish
Reed: pick up his option if he can perform in the playoffs; heck, we resigned Hinske for several years…

zitothebrave

09-23-2013, 08:51 AM

C Johnson - Depends on what kind of return we get. If people value him only slightly more than last yhear we really have to keep him. But if someone values him as a batting champ, then we have to trade him.
BJ - GOing nowhere
JUp - Unless someone offers us more than we gave up no way do we trade him.
McCann - Hope we keep him. But I presume the Braves won't, sadly.
Huddy - If he'll stay for cheap (like 1 year 3 mill deal with some incentives) then I'd keep him. Otherwise someone else can pay him 7+ mil
Medlen - Keep him or trade him depending on salary needs. If we keep Mac for example, Medlen almost has to go. To me he's gone after next year though.
Uggla - We can dream of finding a partner to make this trade with but I severely doubt that it happens
Venters - I don't know where I stand on this one. Again it comes down to salary. I'd love to see if he's healthy and has the stuff he had 2-3 years ago. But he may not be that ever again.
Carpenter - Keep, can't be more of a no brainer since he's not even arb eligible.
EOF - Depends on Johnny if we keep Johnny he goes, if we don't then he has to be considered
Downs - Same as above.
Elliot - Cut. We have to have better options for backup MIF. Guy is a legit bum.
Maholm - Byebye
Laird - Keep, though could be midseason trade bait.
Ayala - on the fence with him but I'd say if he will stay for around a mil then keep, if not, bye bye
Garcia - Would offer minor league deal and that's it
Loe - Same basic thing.
Schafer - The interesting one no one is talking about. He is arb 1 next year so a raise is in his future. I think he's perfect trade bait, but I don' think the Braves will do it.

For me the Braves have a handful of guys who're basically untradeable this offseason, or I wouldn't trade them unless someone blew us away. Jason, Justin, Freddie, Gattis, Simmons, Minor, Julio, Kimbrel, Avilan, Walden and Wood. Now Gattis would be bumped from that group if we keep Mac.

ProbationDeac

09-23-2013, 09:21 AM

someone here seriously wants to trade kimbrel??? really??

Yeah, that's just a bad idea. Message board managing is fun and all but that's just...not...smart.

I think Hudson and Maholm are gone along with Mac. We can try and trade Uggla but I don't know how many takers we'll have. Keep J-Up, Chris Johnson, Venters (depending on money and status), EOF (depends on Venters).

50PoundHead

09-23-2013, 09:39 AM

All I can say is wild winter ahead.

Hard to know how everything will be held together given we are throwing $25+ million down a rat hole.

50PoundHead

09-23-2013, 09:42 AM

I asked Jim Callis about LaStella and he doesn't think he can be a solid regular.

LaStella is a wild card, but the fact that no one outside of this board really talks about him in glowing terms has to mean something. Doesn't mean he can't be a contributor and perhaps a decent big league regular, but the silence is a bit deafening on him. I'm interested to see how he does in the Arizona Fall League.

If Kinsler actually did that in Texas, I'd trade his butt the first chance I got. Total punk move.

zitothebrave

09-23-2013, 10:06 AM

All I can say is wild winter ahead.

Hard to know how everything will be held together given we are throwing $25+ million down a rat hole.

I was just musing while in the shower and thinking about a team like the Angels, they have a lot of money, not a lot of talent to bring in a TOR starter via trade. So what if they agreed to eat all of Uggla's salary as their big chip in acquiring Medlen?

This would be my crazy offseason trades

Medlen and uggla for Kaleb Cowart and Nick Maronde. Would make a bit of a jam as they'd need to figure out between Kendrick and uggla who to play 2B and who to play 3B, but heck with the Angels money they could just eat it. Their offense isn't their problem. It's that they've got 20 starts from Joe Blanton.

Gattis, Beachy, Schafer and Johnson + cash for Josh Donaldson. A big blockbuster trade.

Resign Mac, Hudson and sign Josh Johnson or Roy Halladay to an incentive laden deal.

2013 Bravos

RF - Jason
LF - Justin
1B - Freddie
C - Mac
3B - Donaldson
2B - La Stella
SS - Simmons
CF - Bossman

SP
Minor
Julio
Wood
Hudson
Halladay/Johnson

RP
Kimbrel
Walden
Avilan
EOF/Venters/Downs
Carpenter

Etc.

Dunit24

09-23-2013, 10:08 AM

Im keeping it simple. Just re-sign Mac and find a taker for Uggla.

Why break up a good thing?

And this is with BJ having the worst yr of his career.

nsacpi

09-23-2013, 10:09 AM

The Angels are a high payroll team. But the deals with Hamilton, Pujols, Weaver and Wilson are all significantly backloaded and Trout is a year away from some significant salary increases. I don't think they have that much flexibility. You could see that in the way they constructed the back end of their rotation.

Enscheff

09-23-2013, 11:36 AM

I may have an irrational mancrush on JUp, but the only way I ever trade him is for a guy like Profar that leads to a series of other moves. A JUp/Profar trade frees up LF for Gattis, and frees up money to sign Mac. Profar plays 2nd or 3rd (can he play 3rd?) and allows Uggla to be dumped or benched, or CJ to be flipped for another piece.

I go ahead and bring Huddy back and stick Wood in AAA to start the year. Wood steps in as soon as Teheran or Minor go in for their TJ.

Go ahead and bring all the BP arms back since they don't cost much and have all been very effective this year.

Medlen has impressed me this year now that he has gotten back on track, and is slightly better than I thought he would be. I would still consider trading him if it helped bring back a true Ace like Price.

I would hold onto Kimbrel for at least next year unless someone blows me away with a crazy trade offer. I'm talking crazy like Profar for Kimbrel. He shouldn't be too insanely expensive in Arb1, so keep him around for 2014. He WILL be insanely expensive in Arb2, so I think it's a certainty he is traded after the 2014 season or at the 2014 trade deadline if the Braves are out of contention.

50PoundHead

09-23-2013, 12:03 PM

I was just musing while in the shower and thinking about a team like the Angels, they have a lot of money, not a lot of talent to bring in a TOR starter via trade. So what if they agreed to eat all of Uggla's salary as their big chip in acquiring Medlen?

This would be my crazy offseason trades

Medlen and uggla for Kaleb Cowart and Nick Maronde. Would make a bit of a jam as they'd need to figure out between Kendrick and uggla who to play 2B and who to play 3B, but heck with the Angels money they could just eat it. Their offense isn't their problem. It's that they've got 20 starts from Joe Blanton.

Gattis, Beachy, Schafer and Johnson + cash for Josh Donaldson. A big blockbuster trade.

Resign Mac, Hudson and sign Josh Johnson or Roy Halladay to an incentive laden deal.

2013 Bravos

RF - Jason
LF - Justin
1B - Freddie
C - Mac
3B - Donaldson
2B - La Stella
SS - Simmons
CF - Bossman

SP
Minor
Julio
Wood
Hudson
Halladay/Johnson

RP
Kimbrel
Walden
Avilan
EOF/Venters/Downs
Carpenter

Etc.

I think that's the only way we can dump Uggla. He would have to be sent along with someone cheaper (maybe Minor instead of Medlen; not a preference but the cheaper option from the trading partner's end). That's the only way Uggla moves without us paying $10 million a season for him to play somewhere else.

BlackwaterPark

09-23-2013, 12:13 PM

Dont understand why everyone is in love with Profar...Myers >> Profar

50PoundHead

09-23-2013, 12:18 PM

Really. Let me ask you a question: Who is the best closer between Papelbon, Rivera, Soriano and Kimbrel? Then let me ask you how much each is paid. Then when you answer that question: Do you think Kimbrel isnt aware of his standing and paycheck relative to the other 3?

And finally, one more question, Do you think Atlanta can afford either of them now and Kimbrel later on?

Valid point PawPaw. The contracts for elite closers (and Kimbrel is now firmly in that class) and the ridiculous contract handed out to Elvis Andrus will likely price Kimbrel and Simmons out of Atlanta. Too early to say on Simmons, but I think it's going to be difficult to match the Andrus' contract amount and that's what he'll be seeking.

NYCBrave

09-23-2013, 12:30 PM

Dont understand why everyone is in love with Profar...Myers >> Profar

Not sure if you follow the minor leagues or not, but the numbers Profar was putting up for his age at the SS/2B position were ridiculous. His ceiling is infinite and because he's at a premium position, that's why he was rated so highly. It's not really fair to compare those two side by side, especially because of positional scarcity and the fact that Myers has over 3 years on Profar.

Heyward

09-23-2013, 12:40 PM

someone here seriously wants to trade kimbrel??? really??

Yes, closers are over valued.

If a team offered a haul for him, you consider it.

BlackwaterPark

09-23-2013, 02:58 PM

Not sure if you follow the minor leagues or not, but the numbers Profar was putting up for his age at the SS/2B position were ridiculous. His ceiling is infinite and because he's at a premium position, that's why he was rated so highly. It's not really fair to compare those two side by side, especially because of positional scarcity and the fact that Myers has over 3 years on Profar.

Ok and the guys played almost 100 games in the majors and has a career BA of .230 and OPS of 6.35...ill keep Craig..

NYCBrave

09-23-2013, 03:07 PM

Ok and the guys played almost 100 games in the majors and has a career BA of .230 and OPS of 6.35...ill keep Craig..

That's just a ridiculous statement. The guy has 300 career at bats, over sporadic playing time in the majors (the way he's been jerked around is criminal) in his age 19 and 20 seasons! Do you know where most players are during their age 19 and 20 seasons? Wil Myers was in short season ball followed by low A ball when he was that age. I'm not advocating trading for Profar, but you can't just look at the stats in a vacuum.

BlackwaterPark

09-23-2013, 03:08 PM

Ok well show me some stats that will amaze me then...

NYCBrave

09-23-2013, 03:11 PM

Ok well show me some stats that will amaze me then...

I guess every single minor league publication was incorrect in naming him the unanimous minor league player of the year, it must have been some fluke. Do a little research next time please.

jcc03004

09-23-2013, 03:12 PM

Dalyn

09-23-2013, 06:55 PM

Just curious is bringing EOF back a possibility?

Yes.

Knucksie

10-08-2013, 06:34 PM

What should we do with some of our players this off season?
C Johnson - trade him. His value will never be higher
BJ - stuck with him
JUp - trade him
McCann - Let him go
Huddy - Let him go
Medlen - Keep him
Uggla - trade him PUHLEEZE !
Venters - resign
Carpenter - keep him

any others ?

Let me guess - you have a fantasy league team? You don't make personnel decisions strictly on "selling high," while operating a real major baseball team. Most importantly is if the player makes the team better and helps them win.

Chris Johnson was the only serious contact hitter in the lineup, and definitely just showed no signs of fatigue from the season. Maybe you'd trade if something better was coming along. Dude almost won the batting title. What more did he need to do?

50PoundHead

10-08-2013, 07:21 PM

And then what do we do with Uggla? Trade him? Cut him?

The team barber position is open.

I'm not losing much sleep on Schafer, Eliot Johnson, or Reed Johnson whatever the decision. I don't think Reed Johnson brings much to the table.

50PoundHead

10-08-2013, 07:23 PM

Read the title of this thread. AFWIW, with the money available coming up in 2014 and the pitching staff that has been seasoned and what is available pitching wise in the minors, Wren can reallistically do what he wants with virtually every position player currently on the team and build any way he wants.

So in other words, Wren can use the money to sign or extend the equivalent of Uggla, Upton the Elder, Derek Lowe, or Kawakami? Wren and money scare me. Maybe he should just burn it in a barrel down on skid row. At least the homeless would get a night's worth of warmth out of the conflagration.

Perfect Cell

10-08-2013, 09:31 PM

Chris Jonsons trade value will never be higher than it is now. If you trade him you trade him now.

jcc03004

10-09-2013, 06:25 AM

Call me crazy but I'd consider trading kimbrel now where the return will be the best and have either walden or wood close I think wood as a closer would be intriguing

jcc03004

10-09-2013, 06:26 AM

Almost funny that a few years back Craig almost lost his job to venters

zitothebrave

10-09-2013, 07:50 AM

Chris Johnson was the only serious contact hitter in the lineup, and definitely just showed no signs of fatigue from the season. Maybe you'd trade if something better was coming along. Dude almost won the batting title. What more did he need to do?

The Chris Johnson is a contact hitter is one of those odd things that never dies.

Of the 10 players with 200+ PA on the team, Johnson is 6th in contact%, and 8th in SwStr. Simmons is a contact hitter, he rarely Ks and makes contact with almost all of his swings. Johnson doesn't. Johnson is a linedrive hitter, that's why he has a high average. Johnson struck out as much (and has lower contact numbers) as Evan Gattis, I don't think a soul out there would consider Gattis a contact hitter. Mac, Heyward, and Freddie are all more contact hitters than Johnson.

Now if you said Johnson is a high average hitter and we don't have many of them, that's a fair point.

Stopthebleeding

10-09-2013, 08:13 AM

The Chris Johnson is a contact hitter is one of those odd things that never dies.

Of the 10 players with 200+ PA on the team, Johnson is 6th in contact%, and 8th in SwStr. Simmons is a contact hitter, he rarely Ks and makes contact with almost all of his swings. Johnson doesn't. Johnson is a linedrive hitter, that's why he has a high average. Johnson struck out as much (and has lower contact numbers) as Evan Gattis, I don't think a soul out there would consider Gattis a contact hitter. Mac, Heyward, and Freddie are all more contact hitters than Johnson.

Now if you said Johnson is a high average hitter and we don't have many of them, that's a fair point.

The cold light of day reality is this: NONE of these guys made a big enough difference for the Braves to advance in the post season. Overly pragmatic? Of course, but it does open an uncluttered viewing window as to how this reality can be remedied for 2014. No one is indispensable and if there's a package or a player or two or three or MORE than can make this team better, it should be considered.

Bj1133

10-09-2013, 08:17 AM

The idea of trading Johnson now with his value so high makes sense, except for the fact that the Braves have no viable in-house alternative at 3B. The FA market has a few veterans that might work out (Chavez, Youkilis, Michael Young, JUAN URIBE!!), so there are some options. Maybe a package of Medlen/Johnson to a team like Cleveland/LAA would fetch a nice return

thethe

10-09-2013, 08:24 AM

Bj1133

10-09-2013, 08:30 AM

You could always see if Detroit wants a closer and trade Kimbrel for Castellanos and another prospect.

Is there a better trade piece in baseball than Kimbrel? Heck, the Braves may have 2 of the top 5 most valuable assets in he and Simmons.

Knucksie

10-09-2013, 08:30 AM

Since the idea of trading Chris Johnson being traded is so popular around here, somebody ought to explain that would actually improve the team. Y'know help to prevent another first round loss in the playoffs. With him out of the lineup, that leaves only Freeman to hit for average, while the rest either swing for the fences or swing at air. While you're pondering that mystery, go back and check on your fantasy league team stats.

thethe

10-09-2013, 08:35 AM

Is there a better trade piece in baseball than Kimbrel? Heck, the Braves may have 2 of the top 5 most valuable assets in he and Simmons.

Depending on what Wrens evaulation of the team is I could see him making no moves or a few moves. Something that might be interesting is the following:

Kimbrel for Castellanos/Benoit or Alburquerque/prospect
Justin UPton for Profar / starting pitching prospect

You could play Profar at second and Castellanos in LF and get a replacement bullpen arm and hope that a closer emerges for us next year. Obviously the closer won't touch what Kimbrel is but it would be a more cost controlled basis while capitalizing on his value.

BravesfanMike

10-11-2013, 05:45 PM

COGPK

10-12-2013, 07:16 AM

I've said it so many times...when it comes to trading a player, do it if you can improve the team. I don't care who we trade. I am a fan of the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

zitothebrave

10-12-2013, 09:05 AM

What could we realistically expect in return if we traded Kimbrel? ( not advocating this ) Some have mentioned Castellanos (sp) but we can do much better than that for the most dominating closer in baseball

Honestly don't expect it. Closers are the least indemand player in baseball. Only about 15 or so teams need one and usually the teams who do have someoen in place.

If you look at the Matt Capps trade. Capps had a year and a half of team control, IIRC the Twinkies just lost Nathan so they were desperate, and they got back Ramos, a guy who peaked as not top 50 prospect.

Of course the only guys close to Kimbrel are Papelbon and Rivera and neither of them were traded so we don't have a real beat on his value, but I think people misestimate Kimbrel's value. If I had to rate likely value for trade it would probably go

Jason
Freddie
Simmons
Justin
Julio
Minor
Medlen
Wood
Kimbrel

in one more year Gattis could easily bring more in via trade.

Our best shot for an insane return for Kimbrel is a winning team that has a surplus at a position is willing to work with us. Otherwise don't expect to be happy with our return from trading Kimbrel, or hope there are still dumb GMs out there who have excess prospects.

thethe

10-12-2013, 09:12 AM

zitothebrave

10-12-2013, 09:17 AM

Losing teams don't trade for closers, unless they're morons. But I digress.

Cubs will use their prospects to build up their posiiton players and pitchers. Teams that need closers are teams that are winning now, that's who looks at getting a closer in the offseason because a closer on a 70-80 win team is worthless even if he shuts the door on every game he's in.

If we move Kimbrel I think it will be fore less than people expect. People dont' value relievers too much. Our best way to move him if we do is to hope a team is desperate at the deadline as that's the way most of the best reliever trades have occurred.

PawPawMaxwell

10-12-2013, 09:31 AM

There is no way to know what Kimbrel would fetch in a deal. Never in the history of baseball has a guy like him been traded.

I personally believe a team like the Tigers or Rangers would be the best bet. Maybe even the Cubs since they are so loaded with prospects and have tons of money.
Castellanos is a player who is blocked at his best position. Was #4 prospect in baseball last year. We will probably need a 3rd baseman next off season. Tigers are not afraid of money. IIRC Benoit is a FA. It wont be the end of the world if Kimbrel is back with us next year but he sure could go a long way to setting us up for the future. Tigers might THAT IS A BIG MIGHT even throw Porcello our way with some incentive. Could use him as a #5 if Hudson doesnt come back and free up some of our desireable young guys as trade bait.

Profar would be great but truly and I dont know how to get him but Scooter Gennett would be my first choice at 2nd.

thethe

10-12-2013, 09:33 AM

PawPawMaxwell

10-12-2013, 09:42 AM

There is zero chance that Kimbrel is traded in season. And I believe the Cubs will be competitive faster than you think. Trading for Kimbrel would not be a one-two year deal. The team that trades for him more than likely locks him up.
How can you say that when he has THREE years of arbitration to set his value???

Knucksie

10-12-2013, 12:46 PM

There is no way to know what Kimbrel would fetch in a deal. Never in the history of baseball has a guy like him been traded.

Which is exactly the reason that it's irresponsible to assume that the Braves are sitting on a king's ransom. Not only has it never happened before, most teams do NOT invest that heavily in closers. It's understood that you want to "defend" your posts, but it's based on nothing more than opinion and speculation. Frankly, it's becoming kind of a broken record.

I personally believe a team like the Tigers or Rangers would be the best bet. Maybe even the Cubs since they are so loaded with prospects and have tons of money.

The Tigers and Rangers are going to evaluate what prevented them from greater success when they hold their organizational meetings. The Rangers biggest hole was losing Cruz, although Rios did as well as could be expected. The Tigers have such dominant starting pitching that there's not much pressure on their bullpen, so it's doubtful that there's a glaring need for an elite closer.

The Cubs are going to want to hold onto their top prospects until they're ready to compete. Having an elite closer is a luxury that they will not need for at least 2 years. Even then, they might go with Vizcaino when he's healthy and ready.

PawPawMaxwell

10-14-2013, 08:58 AM

Bet the Tigers wish they had Kimbrel last nite. Benoit and Porcello both got further exposed

Runnin

10-14-2013, 09:31 AM

There is no way to know what Kimbrel would fetch in a deal. Never in the history of baseball has a guy like him been traded.
Never in the history of baseball?

It's hard to believe he's as good as he appears. How did we get so lucky? Without him we don't reach 90 wins this year.

PawPawMaxwell

10-14-2013, 09:35 AM

Never in the history of baseball?

It's hard to believe he's as good as he appears. How did we get so lucky? Without him we don't reach 90 wins this year.

Remember some guy named Ruth? There are some here who say without Fredi we win 100plus. It all balances out.

thethe

10-14-2013, 09:56 AM

Bet the Tigers wish they had Kimbrel last nite. Benoit and Porcello both got further exposed

I think they would offer Castellanos + for Kimbrel this offseason. Might be something to consider.

PawPawMaxwell

10-14-2013, 10:17 AM

I think they would offer Castellanos + for Kimbrel this offseason. Might be something to consider.
If the Tigers dont win it all Wren will miss a big opportunity if he doesnt call DD. Illitch is really getting old and desparate and wont sit on his money.

tigers started year with Rondon at closer, had someone else (cant remember) after a month or so before settling for Benoit. Benoit is not much plus he is a FA coming up.

Hawk

10-14-2013, 11:13 AM

@mlbbowman: Frank Wren has provided strong indication he would like Tim Hudson back in the #Braves rotation next year.(http://twitter.com/mlbbowman/status/389785563433541632)

cajunrevenge

10-14-2013, 01:05 PM

The Tigers farm system is bad. If they trade Castellanos it would probably be the worst in the majors. I would ask for Castellanos, Rondon, and Jake Thompson in return for Kimbrel

Hudson2

10-14-2013, 09:19 PM

I know it would b a lot but what about goin for Scherzer and Castellanos? Gattis, Kimbrel, Uggla, and Medlen and we get a window for an extension on Scherzer.

cajunrevenge

10-14-2013, 10:48 PM

You do realize Scherzer's agent is Borass and he probably wants 8 years at 25 million a year right? It would take an insane offer for Scherzer to not atleast test free agency.

zitothebrave

10-14-2013, 11:44 PM

The Tigers farm system is bad. If they trade Castellanos it would probably be the worst in the majors. I would ask for Castellanos, Rondon, and Jake Thompson in return for Kimbrel

I would ride you out of town on a rail.

Winning teams don't trade Kimbrel, That would be like getting back (in terms of value) Wood, Gilmartin, and Sims. Not a bad return, bu not a trade you make as a winning team. We don't need prospects, hell we don't even need a 3B for next year. We need a closer who can lock down games for as long as we can hold onto him (which shouldn't be an issue until it's FA time for Jason and Justin. Even then, it may not happen if we don't keep Mac, I'd gladly ship off Medlen to keep Kimbrel)

zitothebrave

10-14-2013, 11:51 PM

I know it would b a lot but what about goin for Scherzer and Castellanos? Gattis, Kimbrel, Uggla, and Medlen and we get a window for an extension on Scherzer.

That's the ultimate fan trade.

Sure we're giving up stuff but we basically turn a surplus, and unwant, and a reliever into a big pitching upgrade and a prospect.

Gattis wouldn't get us Castellanos alone most likely. So you have Kimbrel, Medlen, and Uggla (probably about 60M in salary total for the next 2 years I'd bet more) for a young pitcher and the window to keep him around?

cajunrevenge

10-15-2013, 12:38 AM

I would ride you out of town on a rail.

Winning teams don't trade Kimbrel, That would be like getting back (in terms of value) Wood, Gilmartin, and Sims. Not a bad return, bu not a trade you make as a winning team. We don't need prospects, hell we don't even need a 3B for next year. We need a closer who can lock down games for as long as we can hold onto him (which shouldn't be an issue until it's FA time for Jason and Justin. Even then, it may not happen if we don't keep Mac, I'd gladly ship off Medlen to keep Kimbrel)

All I have to say is play him or trade him. If Fredi plans to use him in the playoffs with the season on the line then sure lets keep him. If he plans on using treating Kimbrel like a run of the mill closer then I say trade him to a team that actually plans on going deep into October and we can make do signing a run of the mill closer. We could trade Kimbrel and sign Brian Wilson and not add a cent to the payroll. Kimbrel will make that much in arbitration.

thethe

10-15-2013, 05:40 AM

I would ride you out of town on a rail.

Winning teams don't trade Kimbrel, That would be like getting back (in terms of value) Wood, Gilmartin, and Sims. Not a bad return, bu not a trade you make as a winning team. We don't need prospects, hell we don't even need a 3B for next year. We need a closer who can lock down games for as long as we can hold onto him (which shouldn't be an issue until it's FA time for Jason and Justin. Even then, it may not happen if we don't keep Mac, I'd gladly ship off Medlen to keep Kimbrel)

Smart organizations make trades like this. Sure, we don't need prospects now but we will once all of our money is locked up into 4-5 players. If you keep producing cheap talent then you can ensure that Freeman/Heyward/Simmons/Minor/Teheran are Braves for a LONG LONG time.

50PoundHead

10-15-2013, 07:07 AM

The Tigers farm system is bad. If they trade Castellanos it would probably be the worst in the majors. I would ask for Castellanos, Rondon, and Jake Thompson in return for Kimbrel

They've made a lot of "for now" trades and that's depleted their system. Plus, Ilitch has a ton of cash so he can keep re-stocking the big league squad without paying much attention to the minors. I agree that Castellanos would be a great centerpiece (maybe the only significant piece) in a Kimbrel trade.

As for closers in general, they're kind of like special teams in football. The don't make an appreciable difference in elevating a mediocre team, but they can be extremely valuable and a difference-maker at the elite levels. Tigers totally p*ssed away Game 2 and Benoit has looked shaky all post-season. Closers help win "the games you are supposed to win" and it's hard to put a value on that.

Tigers will never trade Scherzer, but I think he's similar to Chris Johnson in that I don't know if his value is ever going to be higher. Don't get me wrong, he's a better player than Chris Johnson, but I don't know if he'll ever have another season like this one.

NYCBrave

10-15-2013, 07:51 AM

They've made a lot of "for now" trades and that's depleted their system. Plus, Ilitch has a ton of cash so he can keep re-stocking the big league squad without paying much attention to the minors. I agree that Castellanos would be a great centerpiece (maybe the only significant piece) in a Kimbrel trade.

As for closers in general, they're kind of like special teams in football. The don't make an appreciable difference in elevating a mediocre team, but they can be extremely valuable and a difference-maker at the elite levels. Tigers totally p*ssed away Game 2 and Benoit has looked shaky all post-season. Closers help win "the games you are supposed to win" and it's hard to put a value on that.

Tigers will never trade Scherzer, but I think he's similar to Chris Johnson in that I don't know if his value is ever going to be higher. Don't get me wrong, he's a better player than Chris Johnson, but I don't know if he'll ever have another season like this one.

You were saying?

CBS Sports' Danny Knobler is hearing from sources that there is a "very real chance" the Tigers will trade right-hander Max Scherzer over the offseason.

Scherzer is the heavy favorite to win the American League Cy Young Award this year and the Tigers will be looking to make a late postseason run again next year. But the 29-year-old is going to be a free agent after the 2014 season and could command a contract beyond Detroit's means. Trading him this winter rather than this summer would net the Tigers a better package of prospects. Still, it's not close to a certainty that it'll happen at any point. Oct 10 - 3:28 PM

NYCBrave

10-15-2013, 07:52 AM

Many have brought up the James Shields trade as a way to figure out value Price could get, but remember the package the Mets got for Dickey?? Talk about a major haul for a 38 year old! Aces don't come cheap.

50PoundHead

10-15-2013, 08:32 AM

You were saying?

CBS Sports' Danny Knobler is hearing from sources that there is a "very real chance" the Tigers will trade right-hander Max Scherzer over the offseason.

Scherzer is the heavy favorite to win the American League Cy Young Award this year and the Tigers will be looking to make a late postseason run again next year. But the 29-year-old is going to be a free agent after the 2014 season and could command a contract beyond Detroit's means. Trading him this winter rather than this summer would net the Tigers a better package of prospects. Still, it's not close to a certainty that it'll happen at any point. Oct 10 - 3:28 PM

Thanks. I stand (or sit, as I am doing right now) corrected. Where does he go if they move him?

PawPawMaxwell

10-15-2013, 09:12 AM

Thanks. I stand (or sit, as I am doing right now) corrected. Where does he go if they move him?
I think I was the first to bring up a possible fit with the Tigers and these players a couple months ago. Realistically I know there is little chance of such a trade happening but then what is the off season for except wishful thinking.

The Tigers have 2 (and ONLY TWO) needs in their lineup. Oddly we have only TWO realistic trade chips and they both fit exactly if you use a bit of futuristic tweaking. J Upton and Kimbrel fit perfectly for Detroits needs. Scherzer and Castellanos fit almost exactly what we mostly have been saying on here. I do think Detroit would have to sweeten the pot especially if Scherzer gets what is projected in arbitration.

NYCBrave

10-15-2013, 09:21 AM

I think I was the first to bring up a possible fit with the Tigers and these players a couple months ago. Realistically I know there is little chance of such a trade happening but then what is the off season for except wishful thinking.

The Tigers have 2 (and ONLY TWO) needs in their lineup. Oddly we have only TWO realistic trade chips and they both fit exactly if you use a bit of futuristic tweaking. J Upton and Kimbrel fit perfectly for Detroits needs. Scherzer and Castellanos fit almost exactly what we mostly have been saying on here. I do think Detroit would have to sweeten the pot especially if Scherzer gets what is projected in arbitration.

The main problem with that is, Scherzer is arb eligible for the final time next year and then will hit free agency. There is no chance we could resign him. Is it really worth it to give up that much for 1 year of him, even if it gets us a "potential" future 3B?

50PoundHead

10-15-2013, 09:44 AM

I think I was the first to bring up a possible fit with the Tigers and these players a couple months ago. Realistically I know there is little chance of such a trade happening but then what is the off season for except wishful thinking.

The Tigers have 2 (and ONLY TWO) needs in their lineup. Oddly we have only TWO realistic trade chips and they both fit exactly if you use a bit of futuristic tweaking. J Upton and Kimbrel fit perfectly for Detroits needs. Scherzer and Castellanos fit almost exactly what we mostly have been saying on here. I do think Detroit would have to sweeten the pot especially if Scherzer gets what is projected in arbitration.

Detroit could sweeten the pot by taking Uggla off our hands. I'm not that big on Scherzer. I mean, he's good and all, but things really fell together for him this season. I think someone is going to end up paying him a lot more than his production will warrant.

PawPawMaxwell

10-15-2013, 11:34 AM

The main problem with that is, Scherzer is arb eligible for the final time next year and then will hit free agency. There is no chance we could resign him. Is it really worth it to give up that much for 1 year of him, even if it gets us a "potential" future 3B?
Hopefully 1 year of Scherzer would be all we really need. IF he holds his performance level to this year and if Teheran/Minor/Wood progress at the ML level and some of the prospects progress as well.

They might have some interest in Uggla if Infante moves on. Tho IMO the amount of money we would have to eat would remain substantial.

NYCBrave

10-15-2013, 12:07 PM

Hopefully 1 year of Scherzer would be all we really need. IF he holds his performance level to this year and if Teheran/Minor/Wood progress at the ML level and some of the prospects progress as well.

They might have some interest in Uggla if Infante moves on. Tho IMO the amount of money we would have to eat would remain substantial.

But to mortgage a big piece of our future for 1 year of Scherzer, if we don't win it all, it could set the organization back

NYCBrave

10-15-2013, 12:13 PM

Reading this article on Braves.com, this line stood out to me. Is it really possible someone would consider taking BJ off of our hands? You'd have to assume with the money he's owed and the down year, he has little to no value:

The two biggest question marks are in center field and at second base, positions that proved problematic as B.J. Upton and Dan Uggla endured their struggles this past season. There is certainly a chance the Braves will attempt to make a trade with the understanding they would have to eat more than half of the money still owed to either the 29-year-old Upton (four years, $59.8 million) or 33-year-old Uggla (two years, $26 million).

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20131014&content_id=62951450&c_id=atl

50PoundHead

10-15-2013, 12:16 PM

NYCBrave

10-15-2013, 12:27 PM

I don't think a writer puts a quote like that in an article without some kind of nod and wink from the person he's interviewing. I HATE to pay guys to play for someone else, but we may have no choice.

If we're considering trading Upton and paying some of his salary to whoever will take him, then what message is that sending? We made a huge mistake? We have no faith in him to rebound? Unacceptable by the front office.

50PoundHead

10-15-2013, 12:32 PM

If we're considering trading Upton and paying some of his salary to whoever will take him, then what message is that sending? We made a huge mistake? We have no faith in him to rebound? Unacceptable by the front office.

I don't know what it says other than Wren really messed up. I think Wren is just throwing it out there that he's willing to talk on these guys. I don't think he's saying, "Here. Take them and we'll pay all of their salary." I think he's trying to determine whether or not there is a market for them, what that market might be, and how big a safe he'll have to buy to carry all the money he'll be sending with them in the event they are traded. I think a trade of Uggla is more likely than a trade of Upton (either Upton).

gilesfan

10-15-2013, 12:51 PM

I know it would b a lot but what about goin for Scherzer and Castellanos? Gattis, Kimbrel, Uggla, and Medlen and we get a window for an extension on Scherzer.

Why on earth would the Tigers do this? A top of the rotation starter and a legit prospect for a closer, mid rotation starter, a crappy, overpaid 2B, and a 28 year old DH/backup catcher. (who wouldn't play over Fielder, V-Mart, Avila)