They hate us because we bomb them.....

[thethe]

Tell that to Kenyans

[AerchAngel]

They did this in the name of "RELIGION". I am trying to remember the last time a Christian did this, outside of Ireland, in the name of religion.

Pathetic people, pathetic religion that is unbending in their ideology, just like Christian Mormons, Jehovah Witness and somewhat Catholics, but at least they don't lob grenades at people who are not like them including children.

Ask you if you are Muslim, if not, you die.

That is what is pathetic about this.

[thethe]

Just remember...this wouldn't happen if not for America!!!!

[Blumpkin]

Waits for goldfly to come in and tell us how peaceful Muslims are

[thethe]

Waits for goldfly to come in and tell us how peaceful Muslims are

Its cute how some on this board completely ignore other parts of the world where Muslims kill people in the name of religion. You only need to look at Africa to understand that regardless of what anyone does to the Muslims, the radical portion (which is larger than most think) will always hate non-Muslims.

[bravesnumberone]

I have a feeling this thread is going to get really interesting.

[weso1]

It would be nice if we could let these tragedies sit for at least a day or two before we try to score internet points.

[thethe]

It would be nice if we could let these tragedies sit for at least a day or two before we try to score internet points.

The real tragedy is that there are still those in the world who don't realize how dangerous radical Muslims are.

[bravesnumberone]

Well, we have been at war with them for 12 years.

[thethe]

Well, we have been at war with them for 12 years.

More like 700+ years.

[bravesnumberone]

More like 700+ years.

Well, I meant our government, but yeah. Muslims, Christians and Jews have been fighting each other forever. Factions of those religions have been fighting each other forever.

It's the old George Carlin saying.

"Do you believe in God? No. Bang, dead. Do you believe in God? Yes. You believe in my God? No. Bang, dead. My God has a bigger dick than yours."

[weso1]

The real tragedy is that there are still those in the world who don't realize how dangerous radical Muslims are.

I don't really care. I just posted it so that I can pretend to be consistent when I grump about crumpfly doing something similar in the near future.

[thethe]

Governments are distractors for the world. They hide then fact that the world is run by the wealthy and has been this way forever. Sure, some might think I'm crazy but the same groups have been fighting each other for hundreds of years.

[jpx7]

It would be nice if we could let these tragedies sit for at least a day or two before we try to score internet points.

Indeed.

[goldfly]

Waits for goldfly to come in and tell us how peaceful Muslims are

yeah, all those muslims i was around in Qatar, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt were so violent

so glad the big brain of toma is back around these parts

[goldfly]

The real tragedy is that there are still those in the world who don't realize how dangerous radical Muslims are.

uh, there are people in the world that don't know anything being radical is dangerous?

[goldfly]

I don't really care. I just posted it so that I can pretend to be consistent when I grump about crumpfly doing something similar in the near future.

when i do what?

[goldfly]

More like 700+ years.

yep

those peaceful Christians

totally innocent through out time

[thethe]

yep

those peaceful Christians

totally innocent through out time

Did I say that?

[Blumpkin]

yeah, all those muslims i was around in Qatar, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt were so violent

so glad the big brain of toma is back around these parts

And there it is. I knew after the "big world traveler" pulled a Cat Stevens and went to the Middle East, he would come back with even more unbiased perspective on stinky ass terrorist Muslims

[yeezus]

LOL some of you are retarded.
Not all muslims are radical and dangerous. The radical and dangerous ones are radical and dangerous.
I doubt anyone here has ever defended radical muslims or extremists.
Muslims in general are not dangerous.

[Blumpkin]

LOL some of you are retarded.
Not all muslims are radical and dangerous. The radical and dangerous ones are radical and dangerous.
I doubt anyone here has ever defended radical muslims or extremists.
Muslims in general are not dangerous.

Goldfly has

[yeezus]

Christians killed people for hundreds of years.
Israelis are pretty ****ty in their own right.

[yeezus]

Goldfly has

Where, and what was said?
He said "Radical muslims who kill over religion are OK"?

[thethe]

I never said all Muslims are dangerous. I just dispute the point that radical muslims attack us becuase we bomb them.

[yeezus]

I never said all Muslims are dangerous. I just dispute the point that radical muslims attack us becuase we bomb them.

I think it's naive to say they don't get annoyed that we stick our nose in their business all the time.

[thethe]

I think it's naive to say they don't get annoyed that we stick our nose in their business all the time.

I don't think it makes them happy and I didn't say it wasn't a contributory factor. I just dispute its the sole fact and the idea that they would stop if we stopped "sticking our nose" in their business.

[goldfly]

Goldfly has

fiction is fun

[goldfly]

Did I say that?

did i say you said that

[goldfly]

And there it is. I knew after the "big world traveler" pulled a Cat Stevens and went to the Middle East, he would come back with even more unbiased perspective on stinky ass terrorist Muslims

forgot how smart you were toma

[thethe]

So I have a questions for Goldfly/Sturg/Zito/et all...

Why do radical Muslims perform terrorist acts on non-western countries?

[Blumpkin]

forgot how smart you were toma

Well you are now reminded, liberal assface

[goldfly]

Well you are now reminded, liberal assface

something to be proud of for sure

[goldfly]

So I have a questions for Goldfly/Sturg/Zito/et all...

Why do radical Muslims perform terrorist acts on non-western countries?

cause they have ties to the west and their security is easier to commit said crimes

did you really not know that or are you trying to play a long con game?

[thethe]

cause they have ties to the west and their security is easier commit said crimes

did you really not know that or are you trying to play a long con game?

So every target is considered to have ties to the West because they don't live exactly like radical Muslims want to live?

So in their world you can't even have any relations with the West? What does that say then?

[goldfly]

toma, why is this in quotes: "big world traveler"

seriously, i don't get why it is in quotes


america, where a person like toma will look down on ya for actually visiting a place the news/gov't has told you is a certain way and then you go and find out it's nothing like they tried to tell you

[goldfly]

So every target is considered to have ties to the West because they don't live exactly like radical Muslims want to live?

So in their world you can't even have any relations with the West? What does that say then?

why do you think in absolutes?

i find it ironic your 2nd line of questioning though

[yeezus]

toma, why is this in quotes: "big world traveler"

seriously, i don't get why it is in quotes


america, where a person like toma will look down on ya for actually visiting a place the news/gov't has told you is a certain way and then you go and find out it's nothing like they tried to tell you

seriously, it's like some people are insanely proud to be as ignorant as possible.

[yeezus]

why do you think in absolutes?

only siths deal in absolutes.

[thethe]

I for one would love to have half of your traveling experience. Hopefully one day. Still don't have enough money to do that unfortunately.

[thethe]

only siths deal in absolutes.

Soon you will see the power of the dark side young one.

[thethe]

why do you think in absolutes?

Please explain these ties that the victims had.

Please explain how you can rationalize radicals saying if you are Muslim you will live.

[yeezus]

Soon you will see the power of the dark side young one.

the world of public accounting?
:Gasp:

[thethe]

the world of public accounting?
:Gasp:

No, thats the depressing side....

But, if you can deal with horrible work for a few years you set yourself up nicely in the future.

[yeezus]

No, thats the depressing side....

But, if you can deal with horrible work for a few years you set yourself up nicely in the future.

I'm likely not going in to public, but I plan on messaging you some questions about some things.

[thethe]

I'm likely not going in to public, but I plan on messaging you some questions about some things.

Anytime my friend.

[goldfly]

Please explain these ties that the victims had.

Please explain how you can rationalize radicals saying if you are Muslim you will live.

so, you want me to explain to you what a crazy person thinks

that should be easy

[Blumpkin]

seriously, it's like some people are insanely proud to be as ignorant as possible.

STFU nagger

[goldfly]

STFU n!gger

look at you

so controversial

[bravesnumberone]

STFU n!gger

WELL then. Yes, my prediction on the first page was true.

[The Chosen One]

Toma Toma Toma...

:facepalm:

[The Chosen One]

This thread is being moved to Joe West territory.

[AerchAngel]

Toma Toma Toma...

:facepalm:

yep, he loves throwing the n-word around. Hanging around that felon Aaron Hernandez will do that to you.

[Tapate50]

when i do what?

http://www.chopcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676

This.

[goldfly]

http://www.chopcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676

This.

uh

make a reference that, yet another, mass shooting happened in this country and that i am shocked it happened again since we haven't change anything about this country after each and every mass shooting?

[Tapate50]

uh

make a reference that, yet another, mass shooting happened in this country and that i am shocked it happened again since we haven't change anything about this country after each and every mass shooting?

Yep. The quest for internet points as weso referred.

[goldfly]

Yep. The quest for internet points as weso referred.

i am not looking for internet points

weso might, he seems like that type

i truly don't get why we start threads or act shocked when there is a mass shooting anymore in this country when we do nothing to try to stop them from happening

[weso1]

i am not looking for internet points

weso might, he seems like that type

i truly don't get why we start threads or act shocked when there is a mass shooting anymore in this country when we do nothing to try to stop them from happening

You just lost internet points for your dishonesty.

[sturg33]

thethe thinks it's naive to think that people would hate us because we bomb, occupy, and kill them.

And I'm the crazy one...

[sturg33]

Let's see - muslims killed by American outnumbers Americans killed by muslims at nearly 100,000 to 1.

So by thethe's logic - we must REALLY hate them because of their religion!

[AerchAngel]

Let's see - muslims killed by American outnumbers Americans killed by muslims at nearly 100,000 to 1.

So by thethe's logic - we must REALLY hate them because of their religion!

We killed 900 million Muslims? Which country did we nuke to kill that many, Indonesia, Egypt and Iran, parts of Nigeria?

That's news to me.

[sturg33]

We killed 900 million Muslims? Which country did we nuke to kill that many, Indonesia, Egypt and Iran, parts of Nigeria?

That's news to me.

Sorry- was machine gun responding to many posts. Meant to say 100 to 1.

[AerchAngel]

Sorry- was machine gun responding to many posts. Meant to say 100 to 1.

That is more like it.

[thethe]

thethe thinks it's naive to think that people would hate us because we bomb, occupy, and kill them.

And I'm the crazy one...

That's not what I said. Nice try to twist words.

[thethe]

Radicals deliberately target defenseless civilians. If you believe that we target the same way then there is no hope for you. They are animals and nothing can be done to come to peace with them. Our only hope is to show the moderate Muslim world that we are the better option.

[Krgrecw]

The every day Moderate Muslims are to afraid to speak up.


Not to get off topic but are moderate Muslims over there equivalent to well to do African Americans in this country? They can come out and speak up about how Thier brothers are making stupid decisions, need self respect and need to be accountable for Thier actions yet neither moderate Muslims in the Middle East or Black leaders in this country take that step. Why is that? They both have no problem calling out and demonizing the white/western culture for its faults but they can't look at Thier own?

[thethe]

They are too afraid which is sad because they are protecting the wrong people.

But again, the ONLY reason they do this is because we bomb them.

[sturg33]

Radicals deliberately target defenseless civilians. If you believe that we target the same way then there is no hope for you. They are animals and nothing can be done to come to peace with them. Our only hope is to show the moderate Muslim world that we are the better option.

Who has killed more innocent people?

[thethe]

Way to understand the point.

[sturg33]

Way to understand the point.

If killing innocent people is what makes you an "animal" then I think you should look at things a bit differently.

Who cares if they are targeted or not? Dead is dead and I know it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the families.

[thethe]

So I guess you believe the terrorism in Africa is because of America?

[zitothebrave]

The every day Moderate Muslims are to afraid to speak up.


Not to get off topic but are moderate Muslims over there equivalent to well to do African Americans in this country? They can come out and speak up about how Thier brothers are making stupid decisions, need self respect and need to be accountable for Thier actions yet neither moderate Muslims in the Middle East or Black leaders in this country take that step. Why is that? They both have no problem calling out and demonizing the white/western culture for its faults but they can't look at Thier own?

That's ridiculous. By that logic moderate white people are quite cause all you see are bat**** insane republicans and democrats in media representation. Moderation doesn't sell.

[AerchAngel]

The every day Moderate Muslims are to afraid to speak up.


Not to get off topic but are moderate Muslims over there equivalent to well to do African Americans in this country? They can come out and speak up about how Thier brothers are making stupid decisions, need self respect and need to be accountable for Thier actions yet neither moderate Muslims in the Middle East or Black leaders in this country take that step. Why is that? They both have no problem calling out and demonizing the white/western culture for its faults but they can't look at Thier own?

No, it is call being "Black-listed". I demonize our own but in retaliation, I lose friends, cohorts and such. A lot of Uncle Tom's are not welcome in the black community because we don't keep it "real".

For Muslims, they could be killed. I know my best friend growing up, convert to Islam, we got into an argument and he said that if he weren't my friend he would kill me for blaspheming their religion and way of life. Of course he went down the Christian road and I said it doesn't bother me one bit. Then I turned it around on him again and say "Why you wish to kill me, but yet you dog Christians and it doesn't even faze me?"

He said that under Islam you defend it no matter what to the point of death only those who are rational will not go down the road TOTALLY. I just rolled my eyes.

Until you get that stigma out of that religion, we will have problems.

[50PoundHead]

We contribute to the pipeline of radicals--somehow--here in Minnesota. There are quite a few young Somali Muslims who head back after growing up in Minneapolis and a number of them are joining up with the terrorist cells. FBI has been all over it (it shut down the funneling of money to terrorist cells a few years back). The local Somali leader was on CBS news last night and he was pretty firm in his criticism of the young men who head over there to join up with the terrorist cells.

I think it's going to take at least a couple of generations for this to die down. American history is full of examples of how difficult it is for some cultures to integrate into society. Let's remember how it took the Irish almost a century before they were fully accepted (through no fault of their own). Probably a higher hurdle here (and I likely won't see it in my lifetime) because of race and religion. It is important to note on the religious angle that the anti-Catholic venom poured out upon the Irish was really vile.

This is what happens when secular government and pluralism are not accepted and respected. For all of this nation's foibles (and we have them), we've managed to dodge that bullet.

[BRule]

This site has/had potential but honestly TOMA is just an immature idiot who will probably ruin it.

I already find myself checking the site less since he started posting.

Of course if 45 year olds who think they are still in High School is your thing....then I'm sure you will love TOMA. Some of us have grown up, obviously TOMA hasn't, no matter how many kids he has had, businesses he started or how far he has moved....he is still a giant moron.

[AerchAngel]

This site has/had potential but honestly TOMA is just an immature idiot who will probably ruin it.

I already find myself checking the site less since he started posting.

Of course if 45 year olds who think they are still in High School is your thing....then I'm sure you will love TOMA. Some of us have grown up, obviously TOMA hasn't, no matter how many kids he has had, businesses he started or how far he has moved....he is still a giant moron.

You see, we do agree on something. :eusa_dance:

[AerchAngel]

We contribute to the pipeline of radicals--somehow--here in Minnesota. There are quite a few young Somali Muslims who head back after growing up in Minneapolis and a number of them are joining up with the terrorist cells. FBI has been all over it (it shut down the funneling of money to terrorist cells a few years back). The local Somali leader was on CBS news last night and he was pretty firm in his criticism of the young men who head over there to join up with the terrorist cells.

I think it's going to take at least a couple of generations for this to die down. American history is full of examples of how difficult it is for some cultures to integrate into society. Let's remember how it took the Irish almost a century before they were fully accepted (through no fault of their own). Probably a higher hurdle here (and I likely won't see it in my lifetime) because of race and religion. It is important to note on the religious angle that the anti-Catholic venom poured out upon the Irish was really vile.

This is what happens when secular government and pluralism are not accepted and respected. For all of this nation's foibles (and we have them), we've managed to dodge that bullet.

They are inching this way as well. We are on the Chicago to Minneapolis corridor.

[BRule]

You see, we do agree on something. :eusa_dance:

When I'm not trolling, I'm very sensible :smilet-digitalpoint

[goldfly]

This site has/had potential but honestly TOMA is just an immature idiot who will probably ruin it.

I already find myself checking the site less since he started posting.

Of course if 45 year olds who think they are still in High School is your thing....then I'm sure you will love TOMA. Some of us have grown up, obviously TOMA hasn't, no matter how many kids he has had, businesses he started or how far he has moved....he is still a giant moron.

yep

[yeezus]

who is TOMA

[Metaphysicist]

how is babby formed

[BRule]

who is TOMA

Blumpkin

[acesfull86]

Whatever happened to gr8?

[zitothebrave]

Whatever happened to gr8?

Dunno, he posted in spurts before. I assume if he comes here again he'll do the same. My hunch is Meta scared him away.

[thethe]

Back on topic.....Can we put the idea to bed that the radicals only attack people that bomb them?

[sturg33]

Back on topic.....Can we put the idea to bed that the radicals only attack people that bomb them?

Why would we purposefully be ignorant?

[thethe]

Why would we purposefully be ignorant?

Not sure I follow. I never said its not part of the reason but some (like you) have said numerous times its the only reason and if we stopped they would somehow stop.

[zitothebrave]

Not sure I follow. I never said its not part of the reason but some (like you) have said numerous times its the only reason and if we stopped they would somehow stop.

It was. If we don't, fight on their turf. That was one of the biggest reasons we were bombed

[gilesfan]

The ignorant ones are the ones that believe it has something to do other than religion.

[zitothebrave]

The ignorant ones are the ones that believe it has something to do other than religion.

Right. The ignorant ones are the ones who don't realize the historical scenarios of this. There wasn't a problem with radical muslims attacking the west in terroist attacks pre WWII.

[gilesfan]

Right. The ignorant ones are the ones who don't realize the historical scenarios of this. There wasn't a problem with radical muslims attacking the west in terroist attacks pre WWII.

And how would radical muslims attack the west during that time period?

[thethe]

And how would radical muslims attack the west during that time period?

LOL, its amazing how foolish people are. Radical Muslims have hated Western European culture for about 700 years and have clealriy made it known they want everyone in the world to be under Sharia Law. Sure, we agitate them by bombing them but there whole purpose in life is spread the word of their religion. Now they just have better weaponry to do it.

[zitothebrave]

And how would radical muslims attack the west during that time period?

Same basic way they do now. Cells and so on so forth.

Most of the ME issues we have are because of western intervention in the ME. From the initial British policies to the post WWII propping up of the state of Israel.

[zitothebrave]

LOL, its amazing how foolish people are. Radical Muslims have hated Western European culture for about 700 years and have clealriy made it known they want everyone in the world to be under Sharia Law. Sure, we agitate them by bombing them but there whole purpose in life is spread the word of their religion. Now they just have better weaponry to do it.

The purpose of damned near every religion is to spread it's word and take over the world. Otherwise the religion wouldn't spread and fall apart.

[thethe]

Same basic way they do now. Cells and so on so forth.

Most of the ME issues we have are because of western intervention in the ME. From the initial British policies to the post WWII propping up of the state of Israel.

Are you serious? How would they communicate effectively as they do now? The technological age has vastly improved their operations and overall availability of technology.

[thethe]

The purpose of damned near every religion is to spread it's word and take over the world. Otherwise the religion wouldn't spread and fall apart.

Taking over the world has a different meaning depending on what religon you are talking about.

[gilesfan]

Same basic way they do now. Cells and so on so forth.

Most of the ME issues we have are because of western intervention in the ME. From the initial British policies to the post WWII propping up of the state of Israel.

Right.....same basic way they do now..........

[zitothebrave]

Are you serious? How would they communicate effectively as they do now? The technological age has vastly improved their operations and overall availability of technology.

Mail, sending people. Sure you couldn't coordinate as quickly but it still could happen, they had guns and explosives. It didn't happen because their interests were more local because they didn't see us as a big threat.

[zitothebrave]

Taking over the world has a different meaning depending on what religon you are talking about.

No it really doesn't. What religion peacefully took over the world? There's a reason Buddhism is so damned small.

[thethe]

Mail, sending people. Sure you couldn't coordinate as quickly but it still could happen, they had guns and explosives. It didn't happen because their interests were more local because they didn't see us as a big threat.

I just don't have anything left to say. We will never agree on this issue.

[zitothebrave]

I just don't have anything left to say. We will never agree on this issue.

Just do the research and you'll find your answer. During the Ottoman era, Which ran for 600+ years there wasn't those kind of attacks because their interests were local. It's really quite simple. I mean if you choose not to look at history than fine. That's your choice. But saying that the reason terrorists attacked us is cause they're muslim is like saying the Civil War was fought because of fear of central government. Sure it plays a part. But just that. A part. The radical part makes them unafraid to die for their message, but the reason they're being coordinated and recruited in the way that they are has to do with our intervention.

[thethe]

Just do the research and you'll find your answer. During the Ottoman era, Which ran for 600+ years there wasn't those kind of attacks because their interests were local. It's really quite simple. I mean if you choose not to look at history than fine. That's your choice. But saying that the reason terrorists attacked us is cause they're muslim is like saying the Civil War was fought because of fear of central government. Sure it plays a part. But just that. A part. The radical part makes them unafraid to die for their message, but the reason they're being coordinated and recruited in the way that they are has to do with our intervention.

I'm sure eveyrthing that has ever happened in history was documented somewhere.

[zitothebrave]

I'm sure eveyrthing that has ever happened in history was documented somewhere.

Just do the research, it will change your perspective.

[sturg33]

Just do the research, it will change your perspective.

Why should he do research? Our government already told him that they hate us because we're free and "exceptional" and we must constantly bomb and kill them so that we can prove that we're good and they're animals.

[thethe]

OMG you got me!

Still haven't answered my question as to why so many Islamic radicals are causing such a mess in Africa.

[sturg33]

OMG you got me!

Still haven't answered my question as to why so many Islamic radicals are causing such a mess in Africa.

I haven't looked at it yet. Just got done with a week in great white north. I will answer when i actually look at it

[sturg33]

The ignorant ones are the ones that believe it has something to do other than religion.

Right. I'm ignorant because I think that a country being occupied, bombed, droned, sanctioned, and killed would ever want to retaliate because of that.

I suppose when someone punches you (I imagine it happens all the time to you), you wouldn't want to retaliate.

[gilesfan]

And the reason people are intervening in countries they set up shop in are bc they terrorize other countries that are non muslim.

[zitothebrave]

And the reason people are intervening in countries they set up shop in are bc they terrorize other countries that are non muslim.

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You just totally showed your ignorance. Though I guess I shouldn't expect less.

[gilesfan]

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You just totally showed your ignorance. Though I guess I shouldn't expect less.


Why did Kenya go into Somalia?

[zitothebrave]

Why did Kenya go into Somalia?

With minimal research, from wikipedia

Throughout much of the 20th century, the Northern Frontier District (NFD) was a part of British East Africa. On June 26, 1960, four days before granting British Somaliland independence, the British government declared that all Somali-inhabited areas of East Africa should be unified in one administrative region. However, after the dissolution of the former British colonies in the region, Britain granted administration of the Northern Frontier District to Kenyan nationalists despite an informal plebiscite demonstrating the overwhelming desire of the region's population to join the newly formed Somali Republic.[1] On the eve of Kenyan independence in August 1963, British officials belatedly realized that the new Kenyan administration was not willing to give up the Somali-inhabited areas it had just been granted administration of. Led by the Northern Province People's Progressive Party (NPPPP), Somalis in the NFD vigorously sought union with their kin in the Somali Republic to the north.[2] In response, the Kenyan government enacted a number of repressive measures designed to frustrate their efforts in what came to be known as the Shifta War.[3] Although the conflict ended in a cease-fire, Somalis in the region still identify and maintain close ties with their kin in Somalia, and see themselves as one people.[4]

In October 2011, a coordinated operation between the Somali military and the Kenyan military began against the Al-Shabaab group of insurgents in southern Somalia.[5][6] The mission was officially led by the Somali army, with the Kenyan forces providing a support role.[6] In early June 2012, Kenyan troops were formally integrated into AMISOM.[7] By September 2012, the Somali National Army and allied Kenyan African Union forces and Raskamboni militia had managed to capture Al-Shabaab's last major stronghold, the southern port of Kismayo, during the Battle of Kismayo.[8]

[gilesfan]

With minimal research, from wikipedia

Throughout much of the 20th century, the Northern Frontier District (NFD) was a part of British East Africa. On June 26, 1960, four days before granting British Somaliland independence, the British government declared that all Somali-inhabited areas of East Africa should be unified in one administrative region. However, after the dissolution of the former British colonies in the region, Britain granted administration of the Northern Frontier District to Kenyan nationalists despite an informal plebiscite demonstrating the overwhelming desire of the region's population to join the newly formed Somali Republic.[1] On the eve of Kenyan independence in August 1963, British officials belatedly realized that the new Kenyan administration was not willing to give up the Somali-inhabited areas it had just been granted administration of. Led by the Northern Province People's Progressive Party (NPPPP), Somalis in the NFD vigorously sought union with their kin in the Somali Republic to the north.[2] In response, the Kenyan government enacted a number of repressive measures designed to frustrate their efforts in what came to be known as the Shifta War.[3] Although the conflict ended in a cease-fire, Somalis in the region still identify and maintain close ties with their kin in Somalia, and see themselves as one people.[4]

In October 2011, a coordinated operation between the Somali military and the Kenyan military began against the Al-Shabaab group of insurgents in southern Somalia.[5][6] The mission was officially led by the Somali army, with the Kenyan forces providing a support role.[6] In early June 2012, Kenyan troops were formally integrated into AMISOM.[7] By September 2012, the Somali National Army and allied Kenyan African Union forces and Raskamboni militia had managed to capture Al-Shabaab's last major stronghold, the southern port of Kismayo, during the Battle of Kismayo.[8]


Kenya is in Somalia bc Al Queda is trying to take over Somalia. The Somliqn people are resisting. Apparently they don't want females to be able to be raped by 3 or less people (which the woman is then arrested).

I ask Zito or Strug to have 1 original opinion. But they can't do it. Google search time!

[thethe]

Kenya is in Somalia bc Al Queda is trying to take over Somalia. The Somliqn people are resisting. Apparently they don't want females to be able to be raped by 3 or less people (which the woman is then arrested).

I ask Zito or Strug to have 1 original opinion. But they can't do it. Google search time!

Not sure how this can be disputed? Radicals don't go into an area and assimilate into the population. They try to take it over and force everyone to live they way they want.

Its incredible how these groups are almost sainted on this board by some as if they are innocent people who are forced to commit these acts. Just look at their ideology. They do not need any help from anyone to be aggressive and murdering bastards. There is no way that the free world should allow this brand of Islam to spread and by whatever means necessary we need to stop. If for nothing to help liberate women who are held captive within these lands. Now we should not be starting all out land wars/occupations but drone strikes/covert operations/etc.... all need to be continued.

[zitothebrave]

Kenya is in Somalia bc Al Queda is trying to take over Somalia. The Somliqn people are resisting. Apparently they don't want females to be able to be raped by 3 or less people (which the woman is then arrested).

I ask Zito or Strug to have 1 original opinion. But they can't do it. Google search time!

Ummm, you're ignoring (again) ethnic and historical history. That's sadly the thing you and most of the ignorant folk don't get. Africa and the ME were (and in some cases still are) composed of Nomadic tribes. People that have been involved in local squabbles for years. This is on a grander stage as similar allegances are formed, but this kind of **** has been going on in nearly every country for hundreds of years. Most countries were just lucky enough to not have twitter and 24 hour news stations when they went through it.

[zitothebrave]

Not sure how this can be disputed? Radicals don't go into an area and assimilate into the population. They try to take it over and force everyone to live they way they want.

Its incredible how these groups are almost sainted on this board by some as if they are innocent people who are forced to commit these acts. Just look at their ideology. They do not need any help from anyone to be aggressive and murdering bastards. There is no way that the free world should allow this brand of Islam to spread and by whatever means necessary we need to stop. If for nothing to help liberate women who are held captive within these lands. Now we should not be starting all out land wars/occupations but drone strikes/covert operations/etc.... all need to be continued.

These radicals are Somalia nationals for the most part. The group responsible is one of many offshoots of one faction vying for power since 1991 in SOmalia. This isn't new ****. Again a perfect example of why imperialism just doesn't do good.

And before you go around screaming about how they don't want radical muslims, you are ignoring the importance of Islam in Somalia. Islam spread to Somalia circa 800 AD. 85% of the population is Muslim and the Sunni (which this terrorist cell is part of) is the biggest sect of Islam there.

gor
What amazes me is that for hundreds of years, Africa and the ME despite being cradles of civilizations, have been used as poker chips for the big boys in the east and the west. Pre WWII it was European Colonialism, post WWII it was Cold War fight for COmmunist states and so on so forth. Basically these terrorists were made by the intervention of foreigners who won't let them be.

[thethe]

Ummm, you're ignoring (again) ethnic and historical history. That's sadly the thing you and most of the ignorant folk don't get. Africa and the ME were (and in some cases still are) composed of Nomadic tribes. People that have been involved in local squabbles for years. This is on a grander stage as similar allegances are formed, but this kind of **** has been going on in nearly every country for hundreds of years. Most countries were just lucky enough to not have twitter and 24 hour news stations when they went through it.

So are you saying that this conflict isn't completely tied to the fact that Al Shahib wants to create a state under Sharia Law and local African countries not wanting that?

[zitothebrave]

So are you saying that this conflict isn't completely tied to the fact that Al Shahib wants to create a state under Sharia Law and local African countries not wanting that?

It's part of it for sure. But again there are many many many more issues at hand here than you are admitting.

[thethe]

It's part of it for sure. But again there are many many many more issues at hand here than you are admitting.

No, you are completely ignoring the fact that radical Islam is trying to be spread into a nation that doesn't want it so the people are fighting back. The rest of the world should follow suit. Sharia Law is dangerous and should not be tolerated even as an outsider looking at another nation. We must free women around the world who are living in fear every day because it is legal to essentially kill them.

[zitothebrave]

No, you are completely ignoring the fact that radical Islam is trying to be spread into a nation that doesn't want it so the people are fighting back. The rest of the world should follow suit. Sharia Law is dangerous and should not be tolerated even as an outsider looking at another nation. We must free women around the world who are living in fear every day because it is legal to essentially kill them.

Ignoring ethnic and historical background again. Radical islam has been part of that region for hundreds of years.

[AerchAngel]

Ignoring ethnic and historical background again. Radical islam has been part of that region for hundreds of years.

Not really. Deep down they hate Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar and even Iran, because they are more westernize and modern. Having no power to enslave, subjugate women and what not based on their law has gotten to them.

They believe in their own power and their violent culture is waning. USA is suffering the same fate but we don't use violence, but subliminally through oligarchies and government binds. We are creating a fiefdom here in the states.

Sure we blow a few up and I think we should leave them alone and then if they come into power, take them out then.

[zitothebrave]

Not really. Deep down they hate Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar and even Iran, because they are more westernize and modern. Having no power to enslave, subjugate women and what not based on their law has gotten to them.

They believe in their own power and their violent culture is waning. USA is suffering the same fate but we don't use violence, but subliminally through oligarchies and government binds. We are creating a fiefdom here in the states.

Sure we blow a few up and I think we should leave them alone and then if they come into power, take them out then.

I should say when I'm talking about that area it's the horn of Africa.

[AerchAngel]

I should say when I'm talking about that area it's the horn of Africa.

if we leave it alone, then we would have to destroy them eventually.

Pick your poison, let them kill many non radicals so they can gain a foothold and then take them out

Or

Take them out piecemeal.

Under no circumstances Sharia Law should be used anywhere in a logical and sane world. Subjugating men and even worse women is worse than slavery. Their laws are TOTALLY barbaric and not right in this world. They want this under any circumstances and the world (well us) should not let it happen.

I am for them to fight their own battles and we clean up the mess and hopefully it will happen. Until the nonradical muslims get some gonads, this is going to continue to happen.

Did you know if you say anything bad about Islam in front of a Muslim, they are obligated to kill you. I did tell you my best of best of friend growing up converted and wanted to kill me but his Christian side stop him from trying. He said "If it wasn't from my Methodist upbringing, I woudl have got a weapon and shoot you for blaspheming Islam" word for word. How insane is that?

I do not talk to him now but he has renounced Islam and went back to being a Methodist and now regrets losing his first wife because of religion. His kids are still having issues with it, 20 years later.

[zitothebrave]

If we weaned ourselves off oil the interests in those areas the world would be much better. Let the Chinese try to maintain that area and they'll get attacked like crazy.

[AerchAngel]

If we weaned ourselves off oil the interests in those areas the world would be much better. Let the Chinese try to maintain that area and they'll get attacked like crazy.

I agree with this.

[Oklahomahawk]

I agree with this.

Takes us back to the Pickens Plan, another less than perfect solution but the thing I like best about it is that is concentrates on what we DO have here in the US first and only uses foreign oil, especially from countries who don't like us very much, AFTER we've filled all our needs as best we can from our own country's resources...

[zitothebrave]

Better allocation of resources JMO. End Iraq and Afghanistan take that money and offer it as a grant for production of someone who finds a means of an effective alt energy.

[sturg33]

I ask Zito or Strug to have 1 original opinion. But they can't do it. Google search time!

WTF are you talking about? My opinion on the issue is basically discarded by 90% of Americans... My opinion is based historical data, common sense, and direct quotes from the folks who commit the violence.

You're opinion is based on whatever your government tells you and what fox tells you. I wish you could come with an original opinion of your own other than "they hate us bc we're free"... yeah, what a thoughtful opinion of a very old and complex issue.

[Oklahomahawk]

WTF are you talking about? My opinion on the issue is basically discarded by 90% of Americans... My opinion is based historical data, common sense, and direct quotes from the folks who commit the violence.

You're opinion is based on whatever your government tells you and what fox tells you. I wish you could come with an original opinion of your own other than "they hate us bc we're free"... yeah, what a thoughtful opinion of a very old and complex issue.


That's pretty effing hilarious Gilsey!! You know during the information age a teacher has to be pretty good at tracing people's "original" thoughts, ideas, opinions, etc. back to where they REALLY came from. Do any of you want to hazard a guess how many "original" opinions I have traced from conservatives on this board right back to far right websites such as RedState.com, National Review Online, Fox, etc.??? You can trace sturg's stuff back to Paul-ian sites because that's what he believes and he's totally open about it, most conservatives will argue that they never listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. and they never read those websites, they say that all those golden witicisms they use here are 100% their own property and came from their own minds and opinions, period!!! Shakespeare even makes fun of you guys for plagiarism. LOL

[zitothebrave]

That's pretty effing hilarious Gilsey!! You know during the information age a teacher has to be pretty good at tracing people's "original" thoughts, ideas, opinions, etc. back to where they REALLY came from. Do any of you want to hazard a guess how many "original" opinions I have traced from conservatives on this board right back to far right websites such as RedState.com, National Review Online, Fox, etc.??? You can trace sturg's stuff back to Paul-ian sites because that's what he believes and he's totally open about it, most conservatives will argue that they never listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. and they never read those websites, they say that all those golden witicisms they use here are 100% their own property and came from their own minds and opinions, period!!! Shakespeare even makes fun of you guys for plagiarism. LOL

No one has ever had an original thought. When Apple invented the iPhone they enhanced someone else's idea, when Google invented their search engine it's just an enhancement. If all my thoughts were my own, I wouldn't know mathematics, language, etc. I assess information and make my opinion on them. What you're supposed to do.

I'd love to hear gilesfan's original opinion, but he doesn't have one either because his opinion is based off information from a source he looked at.

[Oklahomahawk]

No one has ever had an original thought. When Apple invented the iPhone they enhanced someone else's idea, when Google invented their search engine it's just an enhancement. If all my thoughts were my own, I wouldn't know mathematics, language, etc. I assess information and make my opinion on them. What you're supposed to do.

I'd love to hear gilesfan's original opinion, but he doesn't have one either because his opinion is based off information from a source he looked at.

Eh, just wait till the ****estorm I stirred up with my comments comes to full fruition, at least some of that promises to be original. ;)

[goldfly]

No one has ever had an original thought. When Apple invented the iPhone they enhanced someone else's idea, when Google invented their search engine it's just an enhancement. If all my thoughts were my own, I wouldn't know mathematics, language, etc. I assess information and make my opinion on them. What you're supposed to do.

I'd love to hear gilesfan's original opinion, but he doesn't have one either because his opinion is based off information from a source he looked at.

and i thought Tomas comments were the dumbest in this thread

and then you come and post that

[zitothebrave]

and i thought Tomas comments were the dumbest in this thread

and then you come and post that

Prove that anyone had a truly original thought. This will be fun. I'm sure you'll post back your usual quality

[goldfly]

Prove that anyone had a truly original thought. This will be fun. I'm sure you'll post back your usual quality

no one has had an original thought

that is what you said

that is so stupid that i am not sure where to start honestly

even your examples of "so and so got their thought from so and so..." means if we go back far enough that we get to an original thought

it was ****ing stupid and below being taken serious to be honest

quit being ****ing stupid with absolute statements

[zitothebrave]

Yup about par for the course

[goldfly]

par for the course?

[zitothebrave]

Dodging questions, faux anger. Pretty much normal post from you. All wrapped up in a nice non-capitalized sentence.

[goldfly]

you're an idiot

you said "No one has ever had an original thought"

that you don't know that is dumb to say is mind blowing

but hey, Al Khwarizmi didn't have an original thought

no one has obviously.

anger? much less faux anger? i am not angry, i feel bad for ya with that statement.

[zitothebrave]

Oh so he totally concocted everything on his own, no education, no work before, no nothing. He just woke up and **** algebra, lovely.

[goldfly]

Oh so he totally concocted everything on his own, no education, no work before, no nothing. He just woke up and **** algebra, lovely.

algebra was an original idea

i feel bad for you that you just keep digging instead of admitting it was a dumb statement

but hey, enjoy it i guess

[zitothebrave]

And I presume Beethovan shat his symphonies and McCartney just thought of all his stuff.

You're confusing interpretation with originality. Not really shocking most people do.

[goldfly]

was good to come back and laugh at that 2 weeks later.

[zitothebrave]

ignhvtyvbhn3rtgvbjkjbgrsdcf ertgyf uutvh54 @#dfggtr^&ijnm

Original thought there, now if only I had a way to communicate that.

[goldfly]

still sticking to that ?

hopefully one day you will realize

[zitothebrave]

Some day I'll realize that I'm right? Yeah I have already.

Have to admit I pegged you as an evolution guy, but it's nice seeing that you've got quite a lot of creationist in you.

[goldfly]

Hahahahahahagaha

[jpx7]

Original thought there, now if only I had a way to communicate that.

I have to say – though I don't think he's making his point particularly well – that I agree with zito on this, at least to the extent that language is a system of arbitrated sounds and signs whose web of predetermined values prevents us from expressing anything authentically "original," just as the palimpsest of tradition(s) that forms and governs all our media (or: our modes of generating meaning) obviate any truly "original" works of art [for more on authorial indebtedness, see Eliot's Tradition and the Individual Talent].

Nonetheless, while true "originality" may be illusory, once we comprehend this issue – once we understand the inherited substrates of communication which authorize all content we pass between each other, if not the content of our very thoughts, alone as we are in the vastnesses of our ever-segregated selves – I think we can then accept some form of novelty and except, at least in casual operation, these sorts of caveats.

[weso1]

I have to say – though I don't think he's making his point particularly well – that I agree with zito on this, at least to the extent that language is a system of arbitrated sounds and signs whose web of predetermined values prevents us from expressing anything authentically "original," just as the palimpsest of tradition(s) that forms and governs all our media (or: our modes of generating meaning) obviate any truly "original" works of art [for more on authorial indebtedness, see Eliot's Tradition and the Individual Talent].

Nonetheless, while true "originality" may be illusory, once we comprehend this issue – once we understand the inherited substrates of communication which authorize all content we pass between each other, if not the content of our very thoughts, alone as we are in the vastnesses of our ever-segregated selves – I think we can then accept some form of novelty and except, at least in casual operation, these sorts of caveats.

Someone reinterpret these 2 paragraphs for me like I'm a 6 year old.

[Oklahomahawk]

Someone reinterpret these 2 paragraphs for me like I'm a 6 year old.

He said it depends on what "is" is...

[goldfly]

I have to say – though I don't think he's making his point particularly well – that I agree with zito on this, at least to the extent that language is a system of arbitrated sounds and signs whose web of predetermined values prevents us from expressing anything authentically "original," just as the palimpsest of tradition(s) that forms and governs all our media (or: our modes of generating meaning) obviate any truly "original" works of art [for more on authorial indebtedness, see Eliot's Tradition and the Individual Talent].

Nonetheless, while true "originality" may be illusory, once we comprehend this issue – once we understand the inherited substrates of communication which authorize all content we pass between each other, if not the content of our very thoughts, alone as we are in the vastnesses of our ever-segregated selves – I think we can then accept some form of novelty and except, at least in casual operation, these sorts of caveats.

no matter how you want to argue it

if you go back far enough

there was an original thought/idea etc

[weso1]

He said it depends on what "is" is...

Hmmm.. now let's say that I'm 4.

[zitothebrave]

no matter how you want to argue it

if you go back far enough

there was an original thought/idea etc

Teh lulz

What were you saying about absolute statements?

[Oklahomahawk]

Hmmm.. now let's say that I'm 4.

weso my friend, I'm thinking there may be some things we'd all be better off NOT understanding...

[jpx7]

no matter how you want to argue it

if you go back far enough

there was an original thought/idea etc

Foucault would argue (and I would agree) that such an "original thought/idea etc" is anterior to discourse and therefore merely speculation on our parts; even if it seems likely – as if it simply must have been the case – its import wouldn't really be communicable because it pre-exists communication. And within my belief-system, discourse is sine qua non to meaning.

[jpx7]

Someone reinterpret these 2 paragraphs for me like I'm a 6 year old.

Words – spoken or written – have no inherent value unto themselves: they are arbitrary designations composed, in the case of speech-acts, of arbitrary segments of the sonic spectrum or, in the case of writing, arbitrary shapes (glyphs); in either case, they are representational, and abstract "ideas" (thoughts in the sense beyond mere spatial recognition) exist within a web of these predetermined values, conditioning – at the very least – how we're able to express ideas/meaning/value, if not even how we generate our internal conscious selves as we know them. This yokes us to an index of value – communication; language in all its various forms – that inhibits or prevents pure "originality" (in the sense I believe goldfly intends); furthermore, we don't communicate in a historical vacuum, but learn patterns of language that are conditioned by the various forms we use and encounter, themselves subject to histories (tradition), all of which further complicates the notion of the "original."

If there existed or exists anything previous to these circumstances, we can't really talk about it, because talking (discourse) is how we generate meaning, comprehend ourselves and the world, and perhaps even how we possess conscious, sapient selves. We can be agnostic about its existence, but for all practical intents and purposes, it doesn't exist.

However, this is just a baseline understanding of our human condition (at least as concerns "meaning"). Obviously The Waste Land was a damn novel work of art, even if Eliot ripped off the title from a poem he'd read a few years earlier (his original choice: He Do the Policemen in Different Voices), needed Ezra Pound to massively edit it before it was publishable (hence Eliot's introductory epitaph: "For Ezra Pound: il miglior fabbro"), and moreover even if the poem itself functions as a sort of palimpsest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palimpsest), a referential web in which is encoded the traces and marks of the body of tradition(s) that made possible this new-seeming ordering of words and ideas. In other words: while it was constrained from "pure originality" by the modes of understanding and communication which mediate it, all of us, and all our words, are so constrained by this imposition — which, to use the same logic applied earlier in this post, means for practical intents and purposes we can disregard it.

But at times we should still remember that all things have their antecedents.

[goldfly]

Foucault would argue (and I would agree) that such an "original thought/idea etc" is anterior to discourse and therefore merely speculation on our parts; even if it seems likely – as if it simply must have been the case – its import wouldn't really be communicable because it pre-exists communication. And within my belief-system, discourse is sine qua non to meaning.

even if it pre-exists communication

it was an original thought/idea

of course it was speculation. none of us were alive however many millions years ago for whatever example you want to use.

[zitothebrave]

even if it pre-exists communication

it was an original thought/idea

of course it was speculation. none of us were alive however many millions years ago for whatever example you want to use.

the lulz the lulz!!!

quit being ****ing stupid with absolute statements

[BedellBrave]

Just do the research and you'll find your answer. During the Ottoman era, Which ran for 600+ years there wasn't those kind of attacks because their interests were local. It's really quite simple. I mean if you choose not to look at history than fine. That's your choice. But saying that the reason terrorists attacked us is cause they're muslim is like saying the Civil War was fought because of fear of central government. Sure it plays a part. But just that. A part. The radical part makes them unafraid to die for their message, but the reason they're being coordinated and recruited in the way that they are has to do with our intervention.


Their interests weren't merely local. You haven't read much about their history if you think that Z.

[zitothebrave]

Their interests weren't merely local. You haven't read much about their history if you think that Z.

Holy **** that's a hell of a necro

No their interests weren't local but they weren' running terrorism runs or just conquering christian nations. They conquered as much as possible, just how they rolled.

[BedellBrave]

Holy **** that's a hell of a necro

No their interests weren't local but they weren' running terrorism runs or just conquering christian nations. They conquered as much as possible, just how they rolled.


What's a "necro"?

So I was right.

Conquering of the Balkans

Lepanto

Battle of Vienna, I & II, etc.

And their conquering was in the name of Islam - not merely in the name of the Ottoman Empire.

[zitothebrave]

Necro being short for necropost which is when someone posts in a thread that hasn't been posted in in ages.

And they conquered Egypt, and many other nations as well that weren't christian nations as a whole. Ottoman empire was a political entity, not a religious (not sure what word to use there)

[BedellBrave]

Necro being short for necropost which is when someone posts in a thread that hasn't been posted in in ages.

And they conquered Egypt, and many other nations as well that weren't christian nations as a whole. Ottoman empire was a political entity, not a religious (not sure what word to use there)


That's just wrong. It's a false either/or as evidenced by their court system.

And because they conquered other Islamic people doesn't make them a-Islamic.

And Islam by its very nature is always a political-legal system as well.

Btw, I don't know why this caught my eye today. I hardly ever look at this forum.