6/14 JT vs Harper

[bravesfanMatt]

did the Gnats start the BP today..

[The Chosen One]

I had Harper on BTS.

[Garmel]

Turner somehow makes a routine out to second base a hit.

[msstate7]

Harper 962
Teheran 1

Good job, julio

[bravesfanMatt]

Harper 962
Teheran 1

Good job, julio

you can't get the other 961 without getting that 1 first.

[Garmel]

Swanson stole an out there. Good job, kid.

[nsacpi]

expecting a yuge game from Kemp

[msstate7]

you can't get the other 961 without getting that 1 first.
He's on a roll. Julio owns Harper now

[rico43]

Surgery on Garcia's ring finger. Out for two months. Door swings wide open for Ruiz or Camargo.

[bravesfanMatt]

Surgery on Garcia's ring finger. Out for two months. Door swings wide open for Ruiz or Camargo.

someone should start a thread.. :FrediPuzzled:

[50PoundHead]

A little off the subject, but has Teheran gotten too thick in the body? I was watching Ervin Santana the other night and it looks like he has slimmed down a bit from his early career and he's getting it up there 93-94 with regularity. Teheran has really filled out and I wonder if he's gotten too muscled and as a result he's lost a tick off his fastball.

[bravesfanMatt]

ugh.. enough with the homerun ball JT..

[bravesfanMatt]

A little off the subject, but has Teheran gotten too thick in the body? I was watching Ervin Santana the other night and it looks like he has slimmed down a bit from his early career and he's getting it up there 93-94 with regularity. Teheran has really filled out and I wonder if he's gotten too muscled and as a result he's lost a tick off his fastball.

not completely out of the realm. flexibility is lost sometimes with muscle gain.

[UNCBlue012]

My Lord Teheran is maddening. YOU HAD TWO STRIKES AND TWO OUTS. He just consistently makes bad pitches when it matters.

[bravesfanMatt]

alright KEMvP.. lets get those two back..

[Enscheff]

Julio has lost another half tick of velo on his FB as the trend of his stuff declining continues, resulting in his K rate going down. He was always a flyball pitcher, and more of those are going out of the park, as evidenced by his increased HR/FB rate. He is probably trying to nibble more to avoid HRs, which has led to his highest BB rate.

Overall, stuff is declining, flyballs are turning into HRs more often due to the smaller home ballpark, and none of that is changing any time soon. He should have been traded during the rebuild after he reestablished that he was healthy from the knee injury.

[UNCBlue012]

Thank God our offense isnt horrible

[Garmel]

I have a feeling that Danny Santana is going to our left fielder for at least 10 days.

[bravesfanMatt]

would love to get Roark to 75+ pitches this inning.

80+

Damnit Ender..

[UNCBlue012]

I still can't believe how incredible the Phillips pickup has been.

[bravesfanMatt]

Ok.. time for the knock out blow...

[The Chosen One]

Isn't it amazing how when Kemp went on DL we only had Fredito as a 300 hitter. Now we've got a few hovering near or at 300.

[nsacpi]

mein Gott

[The Chosen One]

Road Grey Unis >>> Crappy Navy Blue BP looking Unis.

[The Chosen One]

Would have liked Newcombe to have a chance to start to plunk Harper.

[The Chosen One]

Lol Series has been ridiculous.

When is Fredex coming back.

[rico43]

Could this be the worst bullpen ever on a division champion? Based on the last week, and knowing who the Mets are getting healthy, I can't imagine Washington holding them off.

Whoops. Cespedes has another boo-boo. Still ...

[The Chosen One]

Could this be the worst bullpen ever on a division champion? Based on the last week, and knowing who the Mets are getting healthy, I can't imagine Washington holding them off.

Whoops. Cespedes has another boo-boo. Still ...

Our 2003 pen had Smoltz and not much else. Our 2005 pen before Farnsworth was pretty pathetic as well.

[Heyward]

Could this be the worst bullpen ever on a division champion? Based on the last week, and knowing who the Mets are getting healthy, I can't imagine Washington holding them off.

Whoops. Cespedes has another boo-boo. Still ...

I saw a crazy stat on twitter about their pen.

They have the worst pen in the major by far, and they've pitched 13 innings LESS than anyone else. This was sometime last week but thats sad how a bullpen will end up being their undoing when it's said and done.

[The Chosen One]

Not sure what's bigger story. We scored 13 or JT is under 80 pitches in the 7th.

[UNCBlue012]

JT has a good pitch count, but he looks rough to start the 7th. He's gotta calm down!

[UNCBlue012]

Alright Julio, I'll eat my words, heck of a game

[WaitingFor2017]

Should Atlanta try to trade Johnson, Motte, Ramirez, or Viz to Washington? I believe in-division trading would warrant better prospects.

[thethe]

Should Atlanta try to trade Johnson, Motte, Ramirez, or Viz to Washington? I believe in-division trading would warrant better prospects.

I'd support this. Depending on how the relief market shapes up we could have a top 3 bullpen arm for sale.

[bravesfanMatt]

The gnats are a mess. I don't want to help them. They are going to kill their farm trying to fix this mess. So if they are really over paying. We might need to get in line. They need at least two pen peices.

[WaitingFor2017]

This team is going to have many attractive trading pieces, and I hope they trade most, if not all, of them.

Phillips, Adams, J. Garcia, J. Johnson, Ramirez, Vizcaino, Motte, and even Markakis could be attractive to some teams.

The best farm in baseball should take advantage and get richer before August.

[CrimsonCowboy]

http://i.imgur.com/P6x0U.gif

[TheBravos]

If Freddie AND Kemp are on the DL....Lawd...

[thewupk]

The gnats are a mess. I don't want to help them. They are going to kill their farm trying to fix this mess. So if they are really over paying. We might need to get in line. They need at least two pen peices.

I'd certainly take prospects from them in a lost season.

[Super]

I'd certainly take prospects from them in a lost season.

Charge a premium though. Not trying to see them succeed.

[Super]

This team is going to have many attractive trading pieces, and I hope they trade most, if not all, of them.

Phillips, Adams, J. Garcia, J. Johnson, Ramirez, Vizcaino, Motte, and even Markakis could be attractive to some teams.

The best farm in baseball should take advantage and get richer before August.

Teheran, if he can have a nice streak.

[TheBravos]

Teheran, if he can have a nice streak.

I would but management will not (or they would have moved him at the deadline or the offseason). He is about to get into his more expensive years.

[thewupk]

Charge a premium though. Not trying to see them succeed.

Ultimately it has no effect on the Braves when they expect to contend so it doesn't matter.

[bravesfanMatt]

Ultimately it has no effect on the Braves when they expect to contend so it doesn't matter.

Still don't want them celebrating because my team helped them. That is the fan talking. The GM in me says take their farm. It only helps us in 2 years.

[TheBravos]

Still don't want them celebrating because my team helped them. That is the fan talking. The GM in me says take their farm. It only helps us in 2 years.

Actually damaging their future and helping ours is a win/win. If they win it all (which probably won't happen)...who cares. Highest bidder wins...even if it's the friggin Yankees (who I hate on another level).

[Preacher]

Have zero issues trading within the division, I actually kind of like it. We are aiming at competing in a couple years..... taking pieces from their farm hurts them down the road.

I'll never get the aversion people have with this.

We really match up pretty well with their needs.

[goldfly]

some still wanting to trade Julio

for **** shake

[Super]

some still wanting to trade Julio

for **** shake

Are you completely against it, even if we get offered a good package?

[thewupk]

some still wanting to trade Julio

for **** shake

It's hard to imagine wanting to trade a player with declining abilities.

[50PoundHead]

Just so hard to put a label on this team. A real outlier kind of game.

[Preacher]

It's hard to imagine wanting to trade a player with declining abilities.

Declining player with an inclining contract.

[Tapate50]

LOVE BEATING THE GNUTS LIKE THAT!

Man, from about the 5th on... they hard a REAL hard time getting our guys out. Even the outs were right at folks a lot of the time.

[TheBravos]

Declining player with an inclining contract.

Exactly.

[Super]

It's hard to imagine wanting to trade a player with declining abilities.

If he rebounds and pitches like he has for most of his career, why wouldn't trade be an option? And why wouldn't you want to trade a guy if you believe his abilities are declining (which I do not)?

[Super]

This desire to write guys off so early is very weird to me. Teheran was a 4.8 bWAR pitcher last year.

[bravesfanMatt]

If he rebounds and pitches like he has for most of his career, why wouldn't trade be an option? And why wouldn't you want to trade a guy if you believe his abilities are declining (which I do not)?

Whoosh!! give it a second, it might come back and hit you.


Now my thoughts on JT. I think we need to keep him. We have to draw the line in the sand and say rebuild over. We have to have pitchers. If JT is our 4 or 5th best starter then we are going to be good. His contract is NEVER going to be expensive and I really don't think he is going to completely fall off the cliff in ability. Assuming Jamie is traded this year.. we have JT and Folty as locks in the mix. I am all in on giving Newk/Wisler/Sims/Meds/Blair/Albers continued looks after the deadline trades and we release or delegate to the Pen Dickey and Colon. But I do not want to trade JT at a depressed value and have a shaky Folty as our only pitcher going into next year.

that said, if Newk and Folty look solid the remainder of the year and Wisler and another guy start to get back to form, then I would be open to trading JT this off season as long as Weigel and others are still showing signs of knocking on the door.

[50PoundHead]

The thing on trading Teheran is that we have to get Sims, Weigel, and Newcomb extended looks or we won't be fielding a pitching staff. My guess is Dickey stays because he is untradeable. Colon is done after this year. I think Garcia is the most likely trade target if he continues to pitch well. But the game requires that someone pitch and unless we want to throw Blair out there for what would likely be a Colon look-alike contest on the stat sheet, there aren't a ton of options. I suppose we could scrub AAA like we did last year for guys like Graham Harrell and mail it in after August 1, but it's my guess Teheran sticks around. He's only 26. He never became the hard thrower that was advertised when he first signed, but part of me believes that he's over-muscled right now and that has taken a tick off his fastball. I could go either way on trading him, but I wouldn't give him away.

[Super]

But I do not want to trade JT at a depressed value


I don't either, which is why I said what I said about him righting the ship.

[UNCBlue012]

Just so hard to put a label on this team. A real outlier kind of game.

It really is and it's so annoying.

[Southcack77]

The thing on trading Teheran is that we have to get Sims, Weigel, and Newcomb extended looks or we won't be fielding a pitching staff. My guess is Dickey stays because he is untradeable. Colon is done after this year. I think Garcia is the most likely trade target if he continues to pitch well. But the game requires that someone pitch and unless we want to throw Blair out there for what would likely be a Colon look-alike contest on the stat sheet, there aren't a ton of options. I suppose we could scrub AAA like we did last year for guys like Graham Harrell and mail it in after August 1, but it's my guess Teheran sticks around. He's only 26. He never became the hard thrower that was advertised when he first signed, but part of me believes that he's over-muscled right now and that has taken a tick off his fastball. I could go either way on trading him, but I wouldn't give him away.

Dickey has a team option. It's not likely to be picked up next year. My guess is that the Braves will probably roll into next season with Teheran and Folty. I'm thinking maybe two prospect slots and another veteran on short term deal in the fifth slot.

[50PoundHead]

Dickey has a team option. It's not likely to be picked up next year. My guess is that the Braves will probably roll into next season with Teheran and Folty. I'm thinking maybe two prospect slots and another veteran on short term deal in the fifth slot.

Let's hope they shop for a better veteran option in 2018.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

Let's hope they shop for a better veteran option in 2018. Bartolo? Lol

[Super]

Dickey has a team option. It's not likely to be picked up next year. My guess is that the Braves will probably roll into next season with Teheran and Folty. I'm thinking maybe two prospect slots and another veteran on short term deal in the fifth slot.


Looking at a list of FA pitchers, it's tough to find a decent guy to sign for that 5th spot. My biggest desire there is someone who can just consistently throw 170+ plus innings, even if the innings aren't good. Wade Miley would be an option, but he has a team option for $12MM. Even if it's not picked up, he may want more than 1 year.

[Super]

Let's hope they shop for a better veteran option in 2018.

It will be tough to get a better option that's willing to take a 1-year deal, which is all I think the org will want to give.

[The Chosen One]

It will be tough to get a better option that's willing to take a 1-year deal, which is all I think the org will want to give.

Why did you make a new account?

[Southcack77]

Looking at a list of FA pitchers, it's tough to find a decent guy to sign for that 5th spot. My biggest desire there is someone who can just consistently throw 170+ plus innings, even if the innings aren't good. Wade Miley would be an option, but he has a team option for $12MM. Even if it's not picked up, he may want more than 1 year.

Could be another small trade too - like what they did for Jaime Garcia or Brandon Phillips. Someone with an extra starter on expiring deal taking back a far away prospect or even some like Wisler or Blair with more control?

[Preacher]

Could be another small trade too - like what they did for Jaime Garcia or Brandon Phillips. Someone with an extra starter on expiring deal taking back a far away prospect or even some like Wisler or Blair with more control?

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Blair or Wisler or both packaged up in a smaller deal. Both are getting passed by in the organization, but another pitching needy team may think they can salvage something. Wouldn't be for much.

If Garcia and Phillips keep playing well, they'll both be gone, almost guaranteed, just no need for them here and teams will be interested. Doesn't really even matter what the return is.

[Enscheff]

The time to trade Teheran was 2 years ago during the rebuild when his value was high and the Braves had no hope of winning in the foreseeable future.

Now that the rebuild is over and his value is much lower it's time to keep him.

Anyone that "knows baseball" knows this!

[Super]

Could be another small trade too - like what they did for Jaime Garcia or Brandon Phillips. Someone with an extra starter on expiring deal taking back a far away prospect or even some like Wisler or Blair with more control?

That's true. I'm sure there's a way to look at who's got 1 year left on their deal.

[Enscheff]

A tidbit on what we can realistically expect for Garcia:

Jackson
4:39 Can Jaime Garcia to the Cubs for Mark Zagunis and Victor Caratini work?

Jason Martinez
4:40 Definitely not both. Maybe one, but it really depends on the state of the Cubs' SP in a month and Jaime Garcia would need to be on a roll. Probably not even one of them, though.

Those are the #9 and #14 prospects in the Cubs system, and would slot in the 15-25 range in the Braves system. And one of them is probably too steep for Garcia.

[Preacher]

A tidbit on what we can realistically expect for Garcia:

Jackson
4:39 Can Jaime Garcia to the Cubs for Mark Zagunis and Victor Caratini work?

Jason Martinez
4:40 Definitely not both. Maybe one, but it really depends on the state of the Cubs' SP in a month and Jaime Garcia would need to be on a roll. Probably not even one of them, though.

Those are the #9 and #14 prospects in the Cubs system, and would slot in the 15-25 range in the Braves system.

Not sure who this is, but he really can't say that, every year teams overpay at the deadline. Value doesn't equal value when teams sense a post-season run.

And that's not me saying the Braves are going to get a great return here, but I think the piece(s) coming back would be relatively strong.

[Super]

I think Caratini is an AL player. From what I've read he's not going to stick at C and doesn't really have a position. Can definitely hit, however.

[Enscheff]

Not sure who this is, but he really can't say that, every year teams overpay at the deadline. Value doesn't equal value when teams sense a post-season run.

And that's not me saying the Braves are going to get a great return here, but I think the piece(s) coming back would be relatively strong.

He's one of the main writersd at MLBTR. I would guess those guys have a good feel for trade values.

[Preacher]

He's one of the main writersd at MLBTR. I would guess those guys have a good feel for trade values.

I like MLBTR, no doubt he's got a good feel, but its hard to line up value a month before the deadline. It doesn't take much to go over to BA's trade history articles and see how often teams will overpay at the deadline. He may be right, I tend to think the Braves will walk away from Garcia with a nice young piece that has some real upside.

[thewupk]

I like MLBTR, no doubt he's got a good feel, but its hard to line up value a month before the deadline. It doesn't take much to go over to BA's trade history articles and see how often teams will overpay at the deadline. He may be right, I tend to think the Braves will walk away from Garcia with a nice young piece that has some real upside.

Cubs are a sabre-friendly organization. Not saying they wouldn't inquire about Garcia but they would likely expect him to pitch closer to his 4+ FIP the res of the year instead of the 3.1 ERA he currently has.

[Super]

Cubs are a sabre-friendly organization. Not saying they wouldn't inquire about Garcia but they would likely expect him to pitch closer to his 4+ FIP the res of the year instead of the 3.1 ERA he currently has.

Their staff is a mess right now. Arrieta and Lackey both look like they've regressed heavily, with Lackey probably being finished. I think they could use Jaime. But you're not gonna get a ton (obviously). Rental + health concerns.

[Enscheff]

Garcia is not a guy any contender is going to acquire with plans to slot him into a postseason rotation. So they are buying him for 2 months of regular season production to get them in the playoffs, where he will then be a long man out of the BP.

We are talking about a guy that will be paid $4M for those 2 months, and can maybe provide ~1 win over that time. That's a surplus value of ~$5M. That's not even half the value of a Top 200 prospect, much less anything resembling a Top 100 prospect.

A back-end SP simply isn't that valuable to playoff contenders. They will be lucky to get half the value they gave up for him...which wasn't much.

[TheBravos]

Yeah, but just think we still have Colon and Dickey...they will bring a HAUL!! #jokingtheycouldntbringbackapackofchewinggum

[Southcack77]

Garcia is not a guy any contender is going to acquire with plans to slot him into a postseason rotation. So they are buying him for 2 months of regular season production to get them in the playoffs, where he will then be a long man out of the BP.

We are talking about a guy that will be paid $4M for those 2 months, and can maybe provide ~1 win over that time. That's a surplus value of ~$5M. That's not even half the value of a Top 200 prospect, much less anything resembling a Top 100 prospect.

A back-end SP simply isn't that valuable to playoff contenders. They will be lucky to get half the value they gave up for him...which wasn't much.

I disagree that there is not a team that wouldn't consider starting him in a playoff series. Experienced starter with playoff experience having a decent year. Third or fourth starter? Sure.

The Braves got an actual prospect for Lucas Harrell. Let's not dismiss the chances before it happens.

[Tapate50]

Garcia is not a guy any contender is going to acquire with plans to slot him into a postseason rotation. So they are buying him for 2 months of regular season production to get them in the playoffs, where he will then be a long man out of the BP.

We are talking about a guy that will be paid $4M for those 2 months, and can maybe provide ~1 win over that time. That's a surplus value of ~$5M. That's not even half the value of a Top 200 prospect, much less anything resembling a Top 100 prospect.

A back-end SP simply isn't that valuable to playoff contenders. They will be lucky to get half the value they gave up for him...which wasn't much.

Not faulting this logic at all, with the HUGE caveat that it really is all based on what's on the market at the time. After all the price for relievers was crazy at the deadline in years passed and I doubt the return (war) equaled what was given up...

[Enscheff]

I disagree that there is not a team that wouldn't consider starting him in a playoff series. Experienced starter with playoff experience having a decent year. Third or fourth starter? Sure.

The Braves got an actual prospect for Lucas Harrell. Let's not dismiss the chances before it happens.

Umm, I would argue Dario Alvarez was the biggest prize in that deal, not Harrell. And for Harrell/Alvarez, the Braves got TD (who is still striking out 26% of the time in AA)...a guy that is pretty much exactly what the MLBTR guy says Garcia can maybe fetch.

Nothing you just stated contradicts anything I posted earlier.

[JxnMissFan]

I disagree that there is not a team that wouldn't consider starting him in a playoff series. Experienced starter with playoff experience having a decent year. Third or fourth starter? Sure.

The Braves got an actual prospect for Lucas Harrell. Let's not dismiss the chances before it happens.

I hate to wish bad luck on players but if the Yankees and Astros pitchers keep going on the DL they will need a pitcher like Garcia for a few months until they get their starters back. I could see either team giving up a 8 to 12th ranked prospect for Garcia. I wonder if a package of Adams and Garcia would be interesting to either team.

[Enscheff]

Not faulting this logic at all, with the HUGE caveat that it really is all based on what's on the market at the time. After all the price for relievers was crazy at the deadline in years passed and I doubt the return (war) equaled what was given up...

LOL, ok. I'm not sure how many times you guys have to have your unrealistic expectations dashed before you adjust them.

Remember 2 days ago when everyone said Wright was going to sign under slot because he was a Braves fan? Remember when I said there was no chance he signed for anything other than over slot? How did that turn out?

[Enscheff]

I hate to wish bad luck on players but if the Yankees and Astros pitchers keep going on the DL they will need a pitcher like Garcia for a few months until they get their starters back. I could see either team giving up a 8 to 12th ranked prospect for Garcia. I wonder if a package of Adams and Garcia would be interesting to either team.

Now THAT'S the kind of thinking we need around here. A package of mediocre pieces getting a decent return is realistic. Just need a team to line up.

[bravesfanMatt]

Umm, I would argue Dario Alvarez was the biggest prize in that deal, not Harrell. And for Harrell/Alvarez, the Braves got TD (who is still striking out 26% of the time in AA)...a guy that is pretty much exactly what the MLBTR guy says Garcia can maybe fetch.

Nothing you just stated contradicts anything I posted earlier.

yeah, Dario K wagon was the catch of that deal and he was the biggest flop of the bunch. I think we will have to pair a BP guy with Jamie. Maybe an attractive offer to the gNats. they could use starter depth and BP help and then slot Jamie or another starter in the pen for the playoffs.

[goldfly]

Are you completely against it, even if we get offered a good package?

no, i'm never against trading someone if the trade is in our favor

but the push to just trade everyone all the time is absurd

and i don't think Julio is declining in abilities etc

[msstate7]

So the astros are playing gurriel at 1b. Never heard of him. Is he a big prospect?

Yankees could platoon Adams and carter at 1b

[zbhargrove]

So the astros are playing gurriel at 1b. Never heard of him. Is he a big prospect?

Yankees could platoon Adams and carter at 1b

He was an older Cuban sign last year. Had a lot of hype but a lot of uncertainty about how his game would transfer.

[Southcack77]

Umm, I would argue Dario Alvarez was the biggest prize in that deal, not Harrell. And for Harrell/Alvarez, the Braves got TD (who is still striking out 26% of the time in AA)...a guy that is pretty much exactly what the MLBTR guy says Garcia can maybe fetch.

Nothing you just stated contradicts anything I posted earlier.

Ok, but you didn't really contradict me either.

[Enscheff]

yeah, Dario K wagon was the catch of that deal and he was the biggest flop of the bunch. I think we will have to pair a BP guy with Jamie. Maybe an attractive offer to the gNats. they could use starter depth and BP help and then slot Jamie or another starter in the pen for the playoffs.

Garcia's value will be maximized to a contender that meets the following criteria:

1. They have (or will have) a solid Top 3 for a playoff rotation...otherwise they will try to get Darvish, Cueto, Archer, Quintana or another TOR guy
2. They have a hole in the back of their rotation...that's where Garcia fits on a true contender
3. They need to be in a close race....otherwise they don't need a back-end starter to reach the playoffs

Teams that don't meet all 3 points won't need Garcia, and will be looking for other options.

The Cubs spring to mind quickly as a possibility.

[JxnMissFan]

Now THAT'S the kind of thinking we need around here. A package of mediocre pieces getting a decent return is realistic. Just need a team to line up.

Contrary to your narrative of the Braves being the dumbest front office in baseball the other 29 teams often make decisions that may not be the best long term strategy in order to win now. Every time you see a contender put a starter on the DL that ups the chances of the Braves making a deal

[Super]

no, i'm never against trading someone if the trade is in our favor

but the push to just trade everyone all the time is absurd

and i don't think Julio is declining in abilities etc

I'm not eager to trade him by any means. Just a possibility if he gets hot.
I also don't think he's declining.

[Southcack77]

Garcia's value will be maximized to a contender that meets the following criteria:

1. They have (or will have) a solid Top 3 for a playoff rotation...otherwise they will try to get Darvish, Cueto, Archer, Quintana or another TOR guy
2. They have a hole in the back of their rotation...that's where Garcia fits on a true contender
3. They need to be in a close race....otherwise they don't need a back-end starter to reach the playoffs

Teams that don't meet all 3 points won't need Garcia, and will be looking for other options.

The Cubs spring to mind quickly as a possibility.

1. This just isn't necessarily true. Even if true there is difference in going for and getting.
2. This is a possibility, sure.
3. With the wild card all playoff nearly all races are close.

[Enscheff]

Ok, but you didn't really contradict me either.

I didn't have to contradict you. Your point was not counter to the point you quoted. Allow me to break it down:

I stated: Garcia will not get a Top 100 guy as return.

You said in response: Harrell got TD as return.

Your response did not contradict my point in any way.

First, Harrell did not get TD...Harrell plus Alvarez got TD.

Second, TD was not a Top 100 guy.

I'm not sure how this discussion is going, logically speaking, in your head...but it's not making sense to me.

[Enscheff]

1. This just isn't necessarily true. Even if true there is difference in going for and getting.
2. This is a possibility, sure.
3. With the wild card all playoff nearly all races are close.

LOL, huh?

Logic...or not haha.

[bravesfanMatt]

I didn't have to contradict you. Your point was not counter to the point you quoted. Allow me to break it down:

I stated: Garcia will not get a Top 100 guy as return.

You said in response: Harrell got TD as return.

Your response did not contradict my point in any way.

First, Harrell did not get TD...Harrell plus Alvarez got TD.

Second, TD was not a Top 100 guy.

I'm not sure how this discussion is going, logically speaking, in your head...but it's not making sense to me.

https://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/3605792.jpg

[Deester11]

The time to trade Teheran was 2 years ago during the rebuild when his value was high and the Braves had no hope of winning in the foreseeable future.

Now that the rebuild is over and his value is much lower it's time to keep him.

Anyone that "knows baseball" knows this!

That's baseball sense. Other than the fact I like julio,it's sunk cost to continue the argument to trade him. If he regains value, it's a meaningful debate. Otherwise can we get back to trading Albies?

[Enscheff]

That's baseball sense. Other than the fact I like julio,it's sunk cost to continue the argument to trade him. If he regains value, it's a meaningful debate. Otherwise can we get back to trading Albies?

It's just odd that when it was suggested to sell high on Julio we were burned at the stake. Now that he is struggling, everyone wants to sell low on him.

Buy high, sell low. The derpi-Barves way!

[Southcack77]

I didn't have to contradict you. Your point was not counter to the point you quoted. Allow me to break it down:

I stated: Garcia will not get a Top 100 guy as return.

You said in response: Harrell got TD as return.

Your response did not contradict my point in any way.

First, Harrell did not get TD...Harrell plus Alvarez got TD.

Second, TD was not a Top 100 guy.

I'm not sure how this discussion is going, logically speaking, in your head...but it's not making sense to me.

Well, you said that no team would want him in the playoff rotation. I said that was not necessarily the case.

I didn't feel like mentioning that, because honestly I have no idea what the importance of my not having contradicted you would even hypothetically be.

I didn't say Demeritte was a top 100 prospect. I said he was "an actual prospect." I've never said Garcia will fetch a top 100 prospect. It's possible I suppose. Nor did I ever say that Garcia would be the only piece of any deal he's involved with.

Like for instance if the Braves packaged Garcia with a reliever since you feel like you've chastised me for pointing out that the Braves traded ****ty reliever with Harrell for Demeritte.

I feel like we've wasted enough time on that little detour.

......

Truth is you can predict that no team will trade for Garcia to put in their playoff rotation, but you surely cannot say it for sure. Taking a look at the likely trade targets do you see someone performing now like someone you'd want to give up the farm for?

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/gallery/trade-rumors-market-verlander-cueto-quintana-cole-archer-gray-vargas-volquez-starting-pitchers-ken-rosenthal-061517

There are a lot of teams in the wild card race, some of them didn't expect to be there, and some of them can really use the goodwill of being in the race without the high cost of pretending like they are going to win the world series. Some of them have different ways of valuing assets and are in different places.

Who knows what dumb **** a contender is going to do?

I think you have the baseline assumption that everyone is stupid or something and thinks that Garcia is going to bring back Yuan Moncada. No one is saying anything like that. No one says most of the **** you rant about.

[Orphan Black]

Everyone should just put Encheff on their ignore list. He's not a Braves' fan, and maybe he'll just stop posting.

[Preacher]

I think the target for a return with a guy like Garcia is a player like TD, and honestly something like that is a really good return for a rental.

I don't see anybody on here talking about getting a top-100 prospect back... but there are a bunch of toolsy players outside the top-100 that would be nice to add. I think you target someone with upside that's either coming off injury, or raw and you see if you can develop him.

[Preacher]

Who knows what dumb **** a contender is going to do?



This is the part that people tend to forget, teams have a tendency to overpay at the deadline for decent talent.

[cajunrevenge]

Depending on the return would anyone be interested in keeping him and giving him a qualifying offer? Could net us a pick in the 30's. If he accepts we get him on a 1 year deal. Even if it's 16-17 million, overpaying slightly for 1 isn't a big deal. It could net us a better return if teams think we are serious about keeping him.

[Preacher]

Depending on the return would anyone be interested in keeping him and giving him a qualifying offer? Could net us a pick in the 30's. If he accepts we get him on a 1 year deal. Even if it's 16-17 million, overpaying slightly for 1 isn't a big deal. It could net us a better return if teams think we are serious about keeping him.

I don't like the injury risk that Garcia conveys and we also have young guys who might actually be in our future plans that need innings.

I'm all about dealing him while he's healthy and productive.

Again, this doesn't have to be a great return, find a kid in the low minors with a couple loud tools and see if you can mold him, or a 22 year old in AA with a really good fastball/curve combo that fits into the bullpen in a couple years, or a guy that's fallen out of favor....... I think you can get a piece with nice upside for Garcia, while opening up a slot in the rotation.

[Tapate50]

LOL, ok. I'm not sure how many times you guys have to have your unrealistic expectations dashed before you adjust them.

Remember 2 days ago when everyone said Wright was going to sign under slot because he was a Braves fan? Remember when I said there was no chance he signed for anything other than over slot? How did that turn out?

Saying that available alternatives to Garcia could negatively\positively affect the value of the return for him is unrealistic and where was I ever thinking Wright signs under slot bc he's a braves fan?

I don't follow your post or reasoning that this isn't the case. It just seems like a personal jab?

[GovClintonTyree]

If Freddie AND Kemp are on the DL....Lawd...

If I understand the saber logic, Kemp is no loss. He is near replacement level in LF, so we should be able to get any swinging dick from Gwinnett in here to fill in for him.

[GovClintonTyree]

Depending on the return would anyone be interested in keeping him and giving him a qualifying offer? Could net us a pick in the 30's. If he accepts we get him on a 1 year deal. Even if it's 16-17 million, overpaying slightly for 1 isn't a big deal. It could net us a better return if teams think we are serious about keeping him.

It's not a crazy idea, and when he's healthy I love him, but he's truly made of glass. I have to pass though I'd like to buy.

[thewupk]

If I understand the saber logic, Kemp is no loss. He is near replacement level in LF, so we should be able to get any swinging dick from Gwinnett in here to fill in for him.

You are correct. Look at the difference between Adams and Freeman and how it's translated in our win/loss record. Yes, Adams has been a good hitter with the Braves but Freeman was a top 3 hitter in baseball before he got hurt. The real difference between players is a lot less than you would think. The difference between an all-star and an average player is only a couple of wins over the course of a full season. It truly takes a complete team to compete in baseball which is ironic because it's the most individualized of the team sports.

[Enscheff]

You are correct. Look at the difference between Adams and Freeman and how it's translated in our win/loss record. Yes, Adams has been a good hitter with the Braves but Freeman was a top 3 hitter in baseball before he got hurt. The real difference between players is a lot less than you would think. The difference between an all-star and an average player is only a couple of wins over the course of a full season. It truly takes a complete team to compete in baseball which is ironic because it's the most individualized of the team sports.

That's why it cracks me up when someone says something stupid like "the difference between a .300 hitter and a .275 hitter is only 1 hit every other week". They don't even know what point they are trying to make when they make those types of statements.

With another LFer the Braves will score less runs, but also give up less runs. Not a super complicated concept to understand.

[Super]

It just seems like a personal jab?

I made an account instead of just continuing to read specifically so I could block his nonsense and pre-teen-like tendencies. I suggest either ignoring him or blocking him. It makes it much nicer around here.

[bravesfanMatt]

I made an account instead of just continuing to read specifically so I could block his nonsense and pre-teen-like tendencies. I suggest either ignoring him or blocking him. It makes it much nicer around here.

Who were ya