THURSDAY MINORS THREAD 6/15 ... Soroka continues scoreless streak

[rico43]

THRUSDAY SCOREBOARD

CLASS AAA

Gwinnett 8, Toledo 3

WP: Wisler (2-4) 6 IP, 3 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, 2 HR
Phillips 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 0 K
Morris 1 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K
Burgos 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K

Kubitza 3-5, 2 HR (2nd,3rd), 4 RBI
Albies 2-5, 3B, 2 RBI
Recker 2-5, 2 R
Freitas 3-5, R, RBI
Gaylor 1-4, 2B, R, RBI

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_06_15_gwiaaa_tolaaa_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

CLASS AA

Mississippi 4, Montgomery 1

WP: Soroka (8-3) 7 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 5 K (2.23)
Biddle (Save, 2 ) 2 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

Acuna 2-4, R
D. Moore 1-3, RBI
Demeritte 1-2, 2B, R, RBI, 2 BB
James 1-4, RBI

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_06_15_monaax_msbaax_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

ADVANCED CLASS A

Daytona @ Florida (DH), cancelled, no makeup

CLASS A

Augusta 7, Rome 2

(20 hits allowed)
SP: Rangel 4 IP, 10 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 4 K, WP
Kennedy 2 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K
Caicedo 1.2 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 1 K
Burrows 0.1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1K

Ventura 0-4
Pache 2-3, R, BB
Ellison 1-3, 3B, 2 RBI
Hoekstra 0-3, 4 Errors

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_06_15_augafx_romafx_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

SHORT-SEASON

DSL Athletics 8, DSL Braves 1

LP: Volquez (0-1) 4 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
Jerez 3 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 IK

Negret 1-4, 3B, R
Only 2 hits

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_06_15_dbrrok_datrok_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

All Times Eastern

[msstate7]

Draft's over... how long till we see maitan?

[zbhargrove]

Draft's over... how long till we see maitan?

When the GCL starts

[msstate7]

When the GCL starts

When's that? I normally couldn't care less about any league under A, but I'm ready to see what the hypes about

[zbhargrove]

When's that? I normally couldn't care less about any league under A, but I'm ready to see what the hypes about

Sometime soon. Couple weeks I think? I know they wait a couple weeks after the draft so the drafted guys can get on a team. Same with Danville. For all we know Maitan may start at Danville. Doubt it but who knows?

[Southcack77]

When's that? I normally couldn't care less about any league under A, but I'm ready to see what the hypes about

Looks like June 26.

[thethe]

Soroka doing Soroka things.

[CJ9]

Soroka is unbelievable. 5 IP 1 H 0 R 1 BB 5 K. Down to a 2.29 ERA on the year.

Acuna has an RBI single. Demeritte has walked in both ABs.

[Tapate50]

People just can't square Soroka up , and they get their ass struck out too.

Pretty good combo

[thethe]

If this continues you almost have to give him a shot to win a starting spot next year. AAA be damned....a 19 year old dominating like this will only learn at the big league level.

[striker42]

If Soroka was 22, what he's doing would be impressive. That he's doing it at 19 after skipping high A is scary.

[jpack1]

Stuff aside. Soroka's minor league career so far has been about as good as it gets. ( He obviously has very good stuff). I've never seen the guy pitch personally but it appears he just attacks hitters relentlessly.

[CJ9]

Albies 2-5 with a single and a two-run triple. Zero strikeouts.

[zbhargrove]

The cool thing about Soroka is that he already has thrown quite a bit of innings for his age. He's got the pitching style to be a workhorse.

[bravesfanMatt]

If newk and folty can figure out how to be elite. Soroka and Weigel will make the 2019 rotation scary good. Still have JT and wright who should be ready. But I think Soroka and Weigel are going to just be solid work horse type pitchers. Great #3 to maybe good #2.

[Enscheff]

Derek Lowe always springs to mind as I research Soroka. Though Lowe never had anything close to the K numbers in the minors Soroka is putting up.

[zbhargrove]

Derek Lowe always springs to mind as I research Soroka. Though Lowe never had anything close to the K numbers in the minors Soroka is putting up.

Soroka seems like some kind of freak control, strikeout hybrid. Will be interesting to see how it translates at higher levels.

[atl717]

Sonny Gray might be a good comp.

[zbhargrove]

Sonny Gray might be a good comp.

I'd be on board with a more durable and consistent Gray.

[UNCBlue012]

I haven't seen a lot of Soroka, but the guy is putting up insane numbers. Where would he be on our list of really good pitching prospects?

Allard, Soroka, Wright?

[cajunrevenge]

If this continues you almost have to give him a shot to win a starting spot next year. AAA be damned....a 19 year old dominating like this will only learn at the big league level.


The right thing to do would be to start him at AAA and use him as depth when another starter goes down to injury or under performs. Ideally after the super 2 date. If for no other reason than I cant take any more whining about service time.

[striker42]

I think you have to move Soroka to AAA soon. AA has stopped being a challenge for him. If he does well at AAA then you entertain the idea of him starting next season in Atlanta. If he shows he needs more time then you start him at AAA.

[thethe]

I think you have to move Soroka to AAA soon. AA has stopped being a challenge for him. If he does well at AAA then you entertain the idea of him starting next season in Atlanta. If he shows he needs more time then you start him at AAA.

Reasonable. AA certainly is not going to prepare him for the next level with the way things are going. These hitters have no chance against him.

[thethe]

I haven't seen a lot of Soroka, but the guy is putting up insane numbers. Where would he be on our list of really good pitching prospects?

Allard, Soroka, Wright?

I guess it all depends on which rationale you put into your prospect rankings. Do you give more weight to ceiling? Performance at the higher levels? Age relative to league? Scouting reports? It all varies and we will see many different variations of our top 10.

For my money Newcomb is one our 5 best prospects. I'll probably be alone in that assessment.

Acuna
Albies
Allard
Newcomb
Maitan
Soroka
Wright
Fried
Gohara
Touissant

[Russ2dollas]

The right thing to do would be to start him at AAA and use him as depth when another starter goes down to injury or under performs. Ideally after the super 2 date. If for no other reason than I cant take any more whining about service time.

100x this.

He's 19. He's still filling out. No way he has built up his innings enough to be a starter in MLB. Unless we go six man rotation.

Results aren't close to everything in the minors. I prefer to read some non braves scouts on him

All year in aa
Next year in aaa and don't bring him up before roster expansion

Next years rotation should find out if sims Newcombe and weigel are starters or pen pieces

[Russ2dollas]

I guess it all depends on which rationale you put into your prospect rankings. Do you give more weight to ceiling? Performance at the higher levels? Age relative to league? Scouting reports? It all varies and we will see many different variations of our top 10.

For my money Newcomb is one our 5 best prospects. I'll probably be alone in that assessment.

Acuna
Albies
Allard
Newcomb
Maitan
Soroka
Wright
Fried
Gohara
Touissant

Based on ceiling I agree

Combine ceiling with likely outcome and he'd be lower but still top 10

[Russ2dollas]

Derek Lowe always springs to mind as I research Soroka. Though Lowe never had anything close to the K numbers in the minors Soroka is putting up.

People strike out more now

I haven't seen any non brace scout put a 2 on him. Most seem to be saying back end guy.

I feel like the consensus I read
Newcombe-no idea. Could be stUD. Could be closer. Could be somarja
Allard-2/3
Soroka-back end
Weigel-2-4....Klaw really likes him
Sims-pen
Anderson-2-4
Haven't seen much on wentz Wilson etc

The talking chop guys love soroka but they are homers. T
Doesn't mean they are wrong but I'd like to see soroka as a top 50 prospect before I dream on a 3 or better starter on a top 10 staff

[IslandBrave]

People strike out more now

I haven't seen any non brace scout put a 2 on him. Most seem to be saying back end guy.

I feel like the consensus I read
Newcombe-no idea. Could be stUD. Could be closer. Could be somarja
Allard-2/3
Soroka-back end
Weigel-2-4....Klaw really likes him
Sims-pen
Anderson-2-4
Haven't seen much on wentz Wilson etc

The talking chop guys love soroka but they are homers. T
Doesn't mean they are wrong but I'd like to see soroka as a top 50 prospect before I dream on a 3 or better starter on a top 10 staff

He's in the 60s on pipeline. That's pretty darn close.

[bravesfanMatt]

Has anyone seen Soroka live. He has already filled out. Dude has a big sturdy frame with huge shoulders. I mean those are shoulders that enscheff dreams of rubbing. So he is built to start. I think mid season updates will have him as a 2 + ceiling. I would keep him in AA until we move some folks to legitimately open spots in AAA. I don't think he needs 40 man time at all this year. We already added Newk. We might add Weigel and Ozzie and we have rule five guys this off season. We can't just add everyone to the 40.

[bravesfanMatt]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffBarker_/status/875547857633333248/video/1

http://www.milb.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?sid=milb&topic_id=18601616&content_id=1503702383

[Super]

I vote whole season in AA and at least half of next year in AAA. Even then he'll be really young.

[50PoundHead]

I vote whole season in AA and at least half of next year in AAA. Even then he'll be really young.

AAA has become somewhat of an elephant's graveyard with all the vets just trying to hang on, so the challenge aspect of AAA doesn't exist the way it used to. I agree with your time schedule.

[thewupk]

Starting 2018 in the majors would be incredibly stupid.

[Tapate50]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffBarker_/status/875547857633333248/video/1

http://www.milb.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?sid=milb&topic_id=18601616&content_id=1503702383

A triple to the gap with no misplays?

[Tapate50]

Doesn't mean they are wrong but I'd like to see soroka as a top 50 prospect before I dream on a 3 or better starter on a top 10 staff

I don't think you will have any problem seeing this, later this year. I'd think top 25 easily at this rate.

[thethe]

Starting 2018 in the majors would be incredibly stupid.

Yes we know. Service time reigns supreme. Pitchers are ticking time bombs. I'd rather get them up when they are ready. It's silly to protect pitchers for 5-7 years down the road. If he's ready get him up here.

Position players I would agree with though.

[Southcack77]

He's in the 60s on pipeline. That's pretty darn close.

Pipeline says "at worst" he has the ingredients to be an innings eating #3. They rate him #66.

Sometimes we have fights on here over misunderstanding the intended meanings of words, but I don't think a #3 with upside = "back end guy."

[nsacpi]

Starting 2018 in the majors would be incredibly stupid.

There is precedence for that kind of stupidity.

[thewupk]

Yes we know. Service time reigns supreme. Pitchers are ticking time bombs. I'd rather get them up when they are ready. It's silly to protect pitchers for 5-7 years down the road. If he's ready get him up here.

Position players I would agree with though.

Yes, service time is very important to mid market teams. The only thing it would accomplish is making you feel good about seeing your shiny new toy.

[thewupk]

There is precedence for that kind of stupidity.

Unfortunately

[thethe]

Yes, service time is very important to mid market teams. The only thing it would accomplish is making you feel good about seeing your shiny new toy.

So your fine with wasting innings on an arm that is likely to explode in the minor league when the pitcher is proving he is close to being ready. This binary thought process of promoting during a certain time because of service time is short sighted. Get pitchers up when they are fresh. Let another team worry about when they get injurred.

[50PoundHead]

Yes we know. Service time reigns supreme. Pitchers are ticking time bombs. I'd rather get them up when they are ready. It's silly to protect pitchers for 5-7 years down the road. If he's ready get him up here.

Position players I would agree with though.

Soroka isn't a high octane thrower or a guy who relies on a big hook so the ticking of the time bomb is softer with him. Doesn't mean he won't get hurt, but I tend to worry less about fatigue and injuries with him. They are handling his pitch count well.

If he goes to spring training next year and is totally unhittable and makes a rock solid case that he should be in the rotation sometime in 2018, so be it. I just tend to be on the patient side.

[thewupk]

So your fine with wasting innings on an arm that is likely to explode in the minor league when the pitcher is proving he is close to being ready. This binary thought process of promoting during a certain time because of service time is short sighted. Get pitchers up when they are fresh. Let another team worry about when they get injurred.

A month is not wasting innings. If he really proves he is ready then bring him up when you are able to gain that extra year. It should be that way with any young player that can be a stud. The exception is when said player fills an immediate need and your team is expecting to compete for a playoff spot all year.

It makes even more sense for a starter compared to a position player. All you are giving up is like two starts since you can manipulate your rotation to start the year due to all the days off you get.

[bravesfanMatt]

I am fine with patiences. But I don't care about service clock as much as others. Swanson is getting the best education if his life right now. I don't want to see this slump in 2018 or 2019. He will be extended to whatever the braves feel they want to keep him. Newk will get his education. Folty getting his. You can't bring up an entire team together and expect to compete. They are straggering these guys out perfectly. Ozzie will be next. Weigel and sims will before soroka. But Soroka will come up when he is ready. Not when his clock tells them he is ready. If he is that good he will also be extended for however long they want to keep him.

[thethe]

Soroka isn't a high octane thrower or a guy who relies on a big hook so the ticking of the time bomb is softer with him. Doesn't mean he won't get hurt, but I tend to worry less about fatigue and injuries with him. They are handling his pitch count well.

If he goes to spring training next year and is totally unhittable and makes a rock solid case that he should be in the rotation sometime in 2018, so be it. I just tend to be on the patient side.

My hope for Soroka is that he is a kid from the north so should be fresh and of course may save us from the white walkers.

[thethe]

A month is not wasting innings. If he really proves he is ready then bring him up when you are able to gain that extra year. It should be that way with any young player that can be a stud. The exception is when said player fills an immediate need and your team is expecting to compete for a playoff spot all year.

It makes even more sense for a starter compared to a position player. All you are giving up is like two starts since you can manipulate your rotation to start the year due to all the days off you get.

I can get behind a month. People are talking mid season and I'm not for that.

[thewupk]

I can get behind a month. People are talking mid season and I'm not for that.

Even 3 months isn't a big deal. If you think a pitcher is fragile and going to blow up then it's going to happen regardless. Is 3 months in a non contending season really going to matter that much? There is also the additional benefit of that extra year of control plus delaying arbitration another season. Things other teams would value in a trade since we would want to get rid of a player before their arm falls off.


You are talking about Soroka like he is Doc Gooden and the Braves are the 84 Mets. He's not that good and the Braves don't need him at the MLB level for the majority of 2018.

[thethe]

Even 3 months isn't a big deal. If you think a pitcher is fragile and going to blow up then it's going to happen regardless. Is 3 months in a non contending season really going to matter that much? There is also the additional benefit of that extra year of control plus delaying arbitration another season. Things other teams would value in a trade since we would want to get rid of a player before their arm falls off.


You are talking about Soroka like he is Doc Gooden and the Braves are the 84 Mets. He's not that good and the Braves don't need him at the MLB level for the majority of 2018.

I'm not writing off 18 at this point. Plus if you think 19 isnm the year then why not give Soroka 18 to get ready for 19?

What is he learning right now in AA that will get him ready for the majors? Seems like he needs a higher level of competition. Could change quickly though.

[thewupk]

I'm not writing off 18 at this point. Plus if you think 19 isnm the year then why not give Soroka 18 to get ready for 19?

What is he learning right now in AA that will get him ready for the majors? Seems like he needs a higher level of competition. Could change quickly though.

If Soroka continues to impress then a half season in the majors in 2018 is sufficient to get ready for 2019.

[jpack1]

Absolutely no rush. Finish majority of the year in AA then maybe up to AAA for a few starts at the end of the year if he's still killing it. Then a half season in AAA next year. That's still very aggressive and in the bigs at 20. 140 ish innings last year. Need to get around 160-170 this year.

[Preacher]

I'm not writing off 18 at this point. Plus if you think 19 isnm the year then why not give Soroka 18 to get ready for 19?

What is he learning right now in AA that will get him ready for the majors? Seems like he needs a higher level of competition. Could change quickly though.

I'd wager he's learning a TON right now, he's 19, he's got a lot to learn and even with his success there's no real reason to rush him right now with Sims/Wiegel/Newk all ahead of him.

He's at 76 innings in AA, lets see how he's pitching when he's at ~140, its a long season.

[msstate7]

I am fine with patiences. But I don't care about service clock as much as others. Swanson is getting the best education if his life right now. I don't want to see this slump in 2018 or 2019. He will be extended to whatever the braves feel they want to keep him. Newk will get his education. Folty getting his. You can't bring up an entire team together and expect to compete. They are straggering these guys out perfectly. Ozzie will be next. Weigel and sims will before soroka. But Soroka will come up when he is ready. Not when his clock tells them he is ready. If he is that good he will also be extended for however long they want to keep him.

I agree

[Super]

I'd wager he's learning a TON right now, he's 19, he's got a lot to learn and even with his success there's no real reason to rush him right now with Sims/Wiegel/Newk all ahead of him.

He's at 76 innings in AA, lets see how he's pitching when he's at ~140, its a long season.

Yeah, you also want to see how long he can consistently hold up. He pitched 143 last year. I seem to remember him faltering a little down the stretch before rebounding nicely at the end. I think he's really good. But yep, there are guys ahead of him. Let him continue to dominate, it's not going to hurt him. If he kills AAA next year there will be a time for him to get a start or a few or maybe a lot.

[Southcack77]

Yes, service time is very important to mid market teams. The only thing it would accomplish is making you feel good about seeing your shiny new toy.

I think people get a little too excited about a single year of control, but sure.

folks tend to make relatively small things into really big things, but that's what the internet is for.

That said, I don't see the need or likelihood of his starting the season in the majors next year.

[Southcack77]

There are other players ahead of him in line for one thing.

[thewupk]

I think people get a little too excited about a single year of control, but sure.

folks tend to make relatively small things into really big things, but that's what the internet is for.

That said, I don't see the need or likelihood of his starting the season in the majors next year.

An extra year of control in a players prime is vastly more valuable than a couple of starts for a starting pitcher when he first comes up. Also delaying arbitration for an extra year is also important as well. Over the years there have been several players who aren't stars but nice role players who have to be released because they get too expensive in arbitration. These things happen and can sometimes be avoided by carefully planning when you bring a guy up.

[clvclv]

He's in the 60s on pipeline. That's pretty darn close.

And will be higher when their midseason list breaks. Just guessing, but Albies, Acuna, Maitan, Wright, Soroka, and possibly Allard will all slot into most midseason Top 50s.

[Southcack77]

An extra year of control in a players prime is vastly more valuable than a couple of starts for a starting pitcher when he first comes up. Also delaying arbitration for an extra year is also important as well. Over the years there have been several players who aren't stars but nice role players who have to be released because they get too expensive in arbitration. These things happen and can sometimes be avoided by carefully planning when you bring a guy up.

You use words like vast that make it seem like it is exceedingly important, but in the scheme of things it is pretty minor.

All things considered, I agree with your premise though.

[nsacpi]

I think people get a little too excited about a single year of control, but sure.

folks tend to make relatively small things into really big things, but that's what the internet is for.

That said, I don't see the need or likelihood of his starting the season in the majors next year.

It is a small thing in the greater context of life. But in terms of managing the payroll of a mid-market team in a way that maximizes its changes for sustainable success it is not a small thing. And it quickly adds up to a big thing if you combine the overall impact of how you manage the service clock time of the whole cohort of core players (Swanson, Albies, Acuna, Soroka and a couple others).

[Southcack77]

It is a small thing in the greater context of life. But in terms of managing the payroll of a mid-market team in a way that maximizes its changes for sustainable success it is not a small thing. And it quickly adds up to a big thing if you combine the overall impact of how you manage the service clock time of the whole cohort of core players (Swanson, Albies, Acuna, Soroka and a couple others).


I think its a smaller thing in the context of baseball.

I understand what you are saying, but there is such a thing as being too clever.

I would not have promoted Swanson last season, but my reason would have been that he was scuffling in AA, not that he should be held down another year (why not two?) to maximize future returns.

I would not start Soroka in the majors because he'll be 20 with little experience above AA. And I'd hold him down as long as it seemed feasible. But when you starting thinking about -- well will the Braves really contend in 2018, maybe it would be better to hold him until June 2019 you start losing me.

At the end of the day, I am also not sure that I believe that utility of these decisions ultimately amounts to a ton. Between players that don't pan out, players that sign extensions, players that excel and hit arbitration, players that are traded, injured, etc., these things are not likely to be that important. Do the little things well, sure, but don't run your organization obsessing over it. At the end of the day, the purpose of the organization is to sell tickets to fans. I see that sentiment from some on here and disagree with it sometimes, but ultimately they are correct. That's the point. When a team like the Braves are rebuilding like they are, I think its better to pull the bandaid and embrace it. But when you step out of that phase (and I think next year is probably the target) you should start operating like a baseball club again.

When I say next year is the target (maybe it should be 2019), I just mean a change in focus from prioritizing prospects to prioritizing the produce at the MLB level. I could certainly see the argument for one more year of stopgaps and sell offs at the deadline though.

[Enscheff]

So your fine with wasting innings on an arm that is likely to explode in the minor league when the pitcher is proving he is close to being ready. This binary thought process of promoting during a certain time because of service time is short sighted. Get pitchers up when they are fresh. Let another team worry about when they get injurred.

The arm is going to blow up no matter what. When it blows up, the guy is shelved for a year. You JUST admitted the arm has a good chance to blow up and lose a year, so wouldn't you rather have that year come out of 6.8 years of control rather than 6 years of control?

Seriously, resource management is not overly complicated. So far, the only promotion they've botched is Swanson. Let's hope he remains the only one.

[Enscheff]

I think its a smaller thing in the context of baseball.

I understand what you are saying, but there is such a thing as being too clever.

I would not have promoted Swanson last season, but my reason would have been that he was scuffling in AA, not that he should be held down another year (why not two?) to maximize future returns.

I would not start Soroka in the majors because he'll be 20 with little experience above AA. And I'd hold him down as long as it seemed feasible. But when you starting thinking about -- well will the Braves really contend in 2018, maybe it would be better to hold him until June 2019 you start losing me.

At the end of the day, I am also not sure that I believe that utility of these decisions ultimately amounts to a ton. Between players that don't pan out, players that sign extensions, players that excel and hit arbitration, players that are traded, injured, etc., these things are not likely to be that important. Do the little things well, sure, but don't run your organization obsessing over it. At the end of the day, the purpose of the organization is to sell tickets to fans. I see that sentiment from some on here and disagree with it sometimes, but ultimately they are correct. That's the point. When a team like the Braves are rebuilding like they are, I think its better to pull the bandaid and embrace it. But when you step out of that phase (and I think next year is probably the target) you should start operating like a baseball club again.

When I say next year is the target (maybe it should be 2019), I just mean a change in focus from prioritizing prospects to prioritizing the produce at the MLB level. I could certainly see the argument for one more year of stopgaps and sell offs at the deadline though.

The fact you even posited this question shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

The reason "not two" is because the Braves would have controlled him through his 20s by waiting until a month into this season. Starting Swanson's clock early to contribute to a losing team at the end of a losing season was pure stupidity. Literally nobody other than John Hart and a select group of posi-Barves think it was a good idea.

[Southcack77]

The fact you even posited this question shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

The reason "not two" is because the Braves would have controlled him through his 20s by waiting until a month into this season. Starting Swanson's clock early to contribute to a losing team at the end of a losing season was pure stupidity. Literally nobody other than John Hart and a select group of posi-Barves think it was a good idea.

Literally no one in my post was arguing that Swanson should have been called up when he was.

[mfree80]

I think its a smaller thing in the context of baseball.

I understand what you are saying, but there is such a thing as being too clever.

I would not have promoted Swanson last season, but my reason would have been that he was scuffling in AA, not that he should be held down another year (why not two?) to maximize future returns.

I would not start Soroka in the majors because he'll be 20 with little experience above AA. And I'd hold him down as long as it seemed feasible. But when you starting thinking about -- well will the Braves really contend in 2018, maybe it would be better to hold him until June 2019 you start losing me.

At the end of the day, I am also not sure that I believe that utility of these decisions ultimately amounts to a ton. Between players that don't pan out, players that sign extensions, players that excel and hit arbitration, players that are traded, injured, etc., these things are not likely to be that important. Do the little things well, sure, but don't run your organization obsessing over it. At the end of the day, the purpose of the organization is to sell tickets to fans. I see that sentiment from some on here and disagree with it sometimes, but ultimately they are correct. That's the point. When a team like the Braves are rebuilding like they are, I think its better to pull the bandaid and embrace it. But when you step out of that phase (and I think next year is probably the target) you should start operating like a baseball club again.

When I say next year is the target (maybe it should be 2019), I just mean a change in focus from prioritizing prospects to prioritizing the produce at the MLB level. I could certainly see the argument for one more year of stopgaps and sell offs at the deadline though.

I think there is a fine line between being guided by the stats and being ruled by them. I really like to see the Braves being guided by the numbers, but get a little nervous when folks suggest being ruled by them.

Sometimes you make exceptions for reasons that we here in the internet world may not be aware of. I suspect that players and agents know which teams consistently play games with service time. I won't try to predict how that plays out in contract negotiation, but I'll bet it is not ignored.

[clvclv]

I think there is a fine line between being guided by the stats and being ruled by them. I really like to see the Braves being guided by the numbers, but get a little nervous when folks suggest being ruled by them.

Sometimes you make exceptions for reasons that we here in the internet world may not be aware of. I suspect that players and agents know which teams consistently play games with service time. I won't try to predict how that plays out in contract negotiation, but I'll bet it is not ignored.

Going to cost the Cubs a TON of cash for playing that game with Bryant and Borass.

[Enscheff]

Going to cost the Cubs a TON of cash for playing that game with Bryant and Borass.

Yeah, because Kris Bryant represented by Scott Boras wasn't going to cost huge dollars anyways.

What a stupid comment.

[auyushu]

Yeah, because Kris Bryant represented by Scott Boras wasn't going to cost huge dollars anyways.

What a stupid comment.

Seriously, when has Boras ever not had his client sign for the highest offer, ever? Bringing up Furcal early sure worked out for us back when Boras was his agent and we wanted to extend him right?

:Bowman:

Outside of certain players such as Huddy who really like the area and sign for cheap, players are going to take the most money they can get on a winning team, that's why paying attention to service time is so important.

[auyushu]

If he is that good he will also be extended for however long they want to keep him.

I love how people act like we are the Dodgers and can sign people for whatever we want with no concerns. If he's that good as you say he's going to be worth 30+ mil a year, and no, we won't be able to sign Soroka for however long we can keep him. The Braves are a mid to low payroll team, we can only afford to sign 2-3 or our players to high dollar long term deals (and that's not including 30+ deals), ignoring service time is just plain dumb for a team with such tight payroll constraints.

[bravesfanMatt]

I love how people act like we are the Dodgers and can sign people for whatever we want with no concerns. If he's that good as you say he's going to be worth 30+ mil a year, and no, we won't be able to sign Soroka for however long we can keep him. The Braves are a mid to low payroll team, we can only afford to sign 2-3 or our players to high dollar long term deals (and that's not including 30+ deals), ignoring service time is just plain dumb for a team with such tight payroll constraints.

you can buy out arb years ++ for 90% of prospect after they arrive. Very few ever come up and are superstars that want to wait until FA.. They take the hometown deal that guarantees them MILLIONS.. look at Mad bum and Sale for example. Even FF is below market contract. If we want to sign Swanson or Soroka for cheap, then I am 90% sure we can. (cheap is a relative term I know)

Yes Soroka might be worth 30 million at some point.. but if the team waits to sign him when he becomes that, then they failed. Inking younger guys to team friendly deals comes with it own risks of course. That is why you get them cheaper though.

[Southcack77]

you can buy out arb years ++ for 90% of prospect after they arrive. Very few ever come up and are superstars that want to wait until FA.. They take the hometown deal that guarantees them MILLIONS.. look at Mad bum and Sale for example. Even FF is below market contract. If we want to sign Swanson or Soroka for cheap, then I am 90% sure we can. (cheap is a relative term I know)

Yes Soroka might be worth 30 million at some point.. but if the team waits to sign him when he becomes that, then they failed. Inking younger guys to team friendly deals comes with it own risks of course. That is why you get them cheaper though.

I'd add that if he's a 30m dollar player that the braves can't sign - he's gone anyway.

You are taking about one season at max arbitration value that you may be saving.

That could be valuable, it could not be valuable, but it's not going to determine the fate of the franchise.

[Enscheff]

I'd add that if he's a 30m dollar player that the braves can't sign - he's gone anyway.

You are taking about one season at max arbitration value that you may be saving.

That could be valuable, it could not be valuable, but it's not going to determine the fate of the franchise.

Nope, but mess it up with 10 players over a 5-10 year period and it will certainly determine the fate of the franchise.

Lose $10M in value from the Swanson promotion. Another $10M with Soroka. Another $10M by promoting Albies needlessly. Yet another with Wright.

For a team with a $150M "pie in the sky everything is great in the new stadium" payroll, but probably closer to $120M, those $10M chunks of lost value are going to add up quickly.

[Horsehide Harry]

It's a business. Smart management runs it like a business. Good businesses don't give money away.

[auyushu]

you can buy out arb years ++ for 90% of prospect after they arrive. Very few ever come up and are superstars that want to wait until FA..

Very few my butt, the Sale and Madbum deals are the exception, not the rule. You may get an extra year or two, but for every Sale there is a Heyward, Furcal, or Francoeur (worked out for us of course) that isn't interested in signing team friendly extensions. Wasting a year of team control under the assumption you can extend them is a very foolish business practice long term.

[Heyward]

Tough to say with Soroka.

He's flat out dominating double A at 19 years old. What more do you have to do with him?

Yes him starting at 20 years old next year would be dumb for a mid-market team but with the depth the Braves have pitching, it is what it is. I'm good with it either way but i can see the case for starting him if he dominates in ST.

Folty, Julio and i guess Newcomb if he doesnt completely suck are only guaranteed spots next year.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Super impressed with how well Soroka is doing and his pitching looked sick based on TalkingChop gifs last night, but I do want to see him in AA the rest of the year. I want to see more dominance away from Trustmark since it's a major pitcher's park (read the splits in a comment there, it's pretty significant).

[auyushu]

Super impressed with how well Soroka is doing and his pitching looked sick based on TalkingChop gifs last night, but I do want to see him in AA the rest of the year. I want to see more dominance away from Trustmark since it's a major pitcher's park (read the splits in a comment there, it's pretty significant).

Those are some mighty strong splits home/away, weird that he has so much better of a k rate at home versus away. Probably SSS there I'm sure on the Ks.

[rico43]

Yeah, because Kris Bryant represented by Scott Boras wasn't going to cost huge dollars anyways.

What a stupid comment.

Your self-righteous superiority is starting to wear thin even on people who, in most part, agree with you. Tone down the put downs, why don't you? If you can't tolerate fools, put them on ignore. Name calling does not move the discussion forward.
For what it's worth, your on-point rebuttals of some of the stuff here is valuable.

[Russ2dollas]

Tough to say with Soroka.

He's flat out dominating double A at 19 years old. What more do you have to do with him?

Yes him starting at 20 years old next year would be dumb for a mid-market team but with the depth the Braves have pitching, it is what it is. I'm good with it either way but i can see the case for starting him if he dominates in ST.

Folty, Julio and i guess Newcomb if he doesnt completely suck are only guaranteed spots next year.

He skipped high a

No way he should skip aaa. Maybe he gets up next year with injury or roster expansion

Weigel Newcombe and Simms need the first shot imo. Or if the decide sims in a bp arm or not good enough a one year vet might be worth it. Dickey or medlen

Let him build up innings and see aaa after a full year in aa

[Heyward]

He skipped high a

No way he should skip aaa. Maybe he gets up next year with injury or roster expansion

Weigel Newcombe and Simms need the first shot imo. Or if the decide sims in a bp arm or not good enough a one year vet might be worth it. Dickey or medlen

Let him build up innings and see aaa after a full year in aa

Odds are he wont start right away in 18, but if he dominates in ST. It will be worth discussing.

[Russ2dollas]

Odds are he wont start right away in 18, but if he dominates in ST. It will be worth discussing.

Why?

He was young at draft. He skipped high a. So now he's basically skipped two grades. It's only been a half a season in aa.

Why skip 3 grades with no aaa? We likely are looking at an 18 rotation of Tehran folty Newcombe. Why wouldn't you give weigel a shot before soroka?

[thethe]

Why?

He was young at draft. He skipped high a. So now he's basically skipped two grades. It's only been a half a season in aa.

Why skip 3 grades with no aaa? We likely are looking at an 18 rotation of Tehran folty Newcombe. Why wouldn't you give weigel a shot before soroka?

This is the best reason not to. Definitely should give weigel a shot first.