Affordable Care Act

[57Brave]

a helpful repost from tumblr:

During the past week, many of my fellow American following me here have asked me about Obamacare (the Affordable Care Act), so I decided to do an info post with some of the general information about the upcoming changes to health care. The official government website for this legislation is a bit of a mess to navigation and, while I appreciate trying to give uninsured Americans all the information about this new law, it’s a little bit of data overload. For COMPLETE and SPECIFIC information about how this law will effect you, I suggest going to Healthcare.gov. This post is meant as introduction with general information which, frankly, the Obama administration has done a poor job of conveying to the American public … unless, of course, Obama’s Tumblr reblogs this.. then…forget I mentioned it.

Who does this law effect?
Americans who are currently uninsured or those who are currently buying their coverage directly from insurance providers.

What if I have health insurance through my job? How does it effect me?
First of all, lucky you for having a job that provides health insurance. You can pretty much stop reading this post and go reblog more cat gifs because this law will not change a damn thing in your life.

Okay, so I need some basic info on what kind of coverage I can get…
Health insurance providers will break down coverage into five categories: Catastrophic, Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. The difference between the categories is mainly how much you will pay out of pocket for insurance with, the Platinum category having the most expensive monthly rate and Catastrophic category being the least inexpensive monthly rate. Most of these categories have subsidies to help pay for these monthly premiums if you qualify.

Great. Catastrophic is the cheapest … SIGN ME UP!
Hold on. The catastrophic plan comes with more restrictions than the other plans. First, you will only qualify for this plan if you are under 30 or if you have a limited income (if you make too much to quailfy for medicare, but not enough to pay monthly premiums of other plans). Also, a catastrophic plan generally requires you to pay all of your medical costs up to a certain amount, usually several thousand dollars. However, 3 primary care visits per year and some limited preventive care is covered by the plan with no out of pocket cost to you.

So, I’ve decided on a plan, what exactly does it cover?
By law, all categories must cover the following essential health care: ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

But…how do I pay for this? I need a little help. The premiums are still too high.
Well, if you are an individual making between $11,490 to $45,960 a year, then you will qualify for tax subsidies to help shoulder the monthly costs. Tax subsidies are also avaliable for families. Visit Healthcare.gov for specific income ranges. It depends on how large your family is.

I think I make less than $11,000… what now?
You may qualify for your State’s medicare program which offer no cost or low cost coverage. Medicare is also expanding in certain States, so I’d advise you to check with your State’s medicare website.

Blerg, I don’t want to enroll in any healthcare plan. I know it’s mandatory but… come at me, government…
There is a penalty to those who do not enroll in any healthcare plan. The fee in 2014 is 1% of your yearly income or $95 per person for the year, whichever is higher. The fee increases every year. In 2016 it is 2.5% of income or $695 per person, whichever is higher. And, of course, if you get into some car accident or become sick, you’ll have to pay for all of your healthcare yourself. Good luck with that.

How do I get the ball rolling on this?
Starting on October 1, 2013, health care exchanges will be open so you can sign up and see EXACTLY how much healthcare plans will cost and if you qualify for subsidies. Once you sign up for coverage, your insurance will kick in starting January 1, 2014. Open enrollment ends on March 31, 2014. If you haven’t signed up for coverage by this deadline, you won’t be able to get health coverage through the Marketplace until the next annual enrollment period, unless they have a qualifying life event. Also, if you haven’t signed up for health coverage by deadline, you’ll be subjected to the penalty (see above).

Great, I need more information, where can I find it?.
Many states have their own websites with specific information for their residents. General information can be found at Healthcare.gov.
https://www.healthcare.gov/

Here are States that have their own websites for the Affordable Care Act.


California
Colorado
Connecticut
District of Columbia
Hawaii
Idaho
Kentucky
Maryland
Masschusetts
Minnesota
Nevada
New Mexico
New York
Oregon
Rhode Island
Vermont
Washington

If you do not see your State listed here, you can apply for coverage at the federal government’s official website over here.
https://www.healthcare.gov/how-do-i-apply-for-marketplace-coverage/

Wow, this post is useful. Why are your other posts so useless…
Hey, now. I love Canadian cop dramas, okay! I just hope this helps some of you. This is my attempt at being Bill Clinton, honorary secetary of explaining stuff.

[sturg33]

What if I have health insurance through my job? How does it effect me?
First of all, lucky you for having a job that provides health insurance. You can pretty much stop reading this post and go reblog more cat gifs because this law will not change a damn thing in your life.




I did stop reading here.

Because it's BS and I knew the rest of the article would be as well.

My company is already making major changes based on the law, and I'm paying for it. For starters, my company was forced to offer a low quality, basic insurance plan for non-salaried and contractor workers. And to help pay for that, the rest of our premiums have increased. My premiums for this year were doubled, and there are rumors of doubling again next year.

So don't come in spouting that nonsense. Did you see what the Cleveland Clinic just did?

[57Brave]

That seems to be a popular refrain " I did stop reading here."

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/09/obamacare-isnt-really-taking-away-jobs-cleveland-clinic-edition/279834/

/////

If you don't mind a suggestion -- learn how the program works since it will be affecting how you deal with your personal health. Perhaps you learn how it works you will see your boss needn't have to raise your rates -- just maybe -- learn how it works -- that is all the article above is saying.

Please don't cut off your nose to spite your face

[goldfly]

Should have just done single payer instead if wasting a full generation on this bad idea of a bridge

[57Brave]

I agree but they didnt and this is what we have to deal with.

Shoot --- look how hard it was to get any kind of reform run through the insurance companies -- the idea of a wholesale "socialist" plan being put into law is just laughable -- there wouldn't even be what good has come out of this.
A half a loaf is better than no loaf. I think Ben Franklin said that

[50PoundHead]

Should have just done single payer instead if wasting a full generation on this bad idea of a bridge

Single payer or something like it. sturg33 is right in that the money to pay for the coverage to the uncovered has to come from somewhere and it's coming in fees to businesses and individuals instead of a straightforward tax. Payday for the consultants.

I thought the Republican plan of the early-1990s suggested in reaction to the Clinton proposal has always been the way to go. Require individuals to have coverage with premiums based on the plan chosen and an income-based sliding scale. My addition to that would be if the insurance industry doesn't go along, put in a public option.

[Metaphysicist]

a helpful repost from tumblr

Let me stop you right there.

[CK86]

Who does this law effect?
Americans who are currently uninsured or those who are currently buying their coverage directly from insurance providers.

What if I have health insurance through my job? How does it effect me?
First of all, lucky you for having a job that provides health insurance. You can pretty much stop reading this post and go reblog more cat gifs because this law will not change a damn thing in your life.


This law effects everyone. To say it only effects those that are uninsured is misleading at best and a lie at worst. It will effect every single person in this country.

Secondly, it also effects those that have a job with health insurance. My insurance is going up and probably going to double when it's all said and done. This law sucks. If this law were so good, congress and their staffs would be participating in the law instead of having exemptions. I have no way to exempt myself from this debacle, it's so kind of those in congress to take care of themselves and their staffs but screw the rest of the country.

[57Brave]

the portion of the law you speak of doesn't even go into affect for 5 days.
So how do you or anyone know what is going to happen or the effects a year from now? I go back 10 years to the bi-partisan drug bill -- the general consensus you and others are feeding from thought it a rousing success -- well -- not quite

If your insurance doubles you don't understand the process. If your boss is raising your premiums your boss is cheating you
the law is very clear on who pays what and under what circumstances. Of course things will not be like they are today. Change is funny like that
Funny thing is if you google the effects of ACA you get two pages of links to people that have been wrong at every turn the past 25 years - on every subject and every event. From the war to cash for clunkers, the bail out of the auto industry to the above drug bill to strategies to overthrow this law. Of even more recently their criticisms of Obama over Syria. If this law is such a catastrophe why does draw such political ire? There are many indications learned opponents to this law fear it will be a success and will leave people satisfied
How is Massachusetts fairing under virtually the same program?

Tell me about the donut hole? Is that portion of the bill that went into affect a year or two ago working?
What about preexisting conditions-- ?
What about those with health care that have lost their jobs and would have lost their insurance until new employment was found?
Or even the move to paperless documentation?
How is ACA working for those people?
Why if those portions are getting the ball moving why would you so strongly doubt the success of the latest increment instead of take a wait and see approach?

I too would prefer single payer -- but we didnt get that - we got this. !/2 loaf vs whole loaf.

[Tapate50]

the portion of the law you speak of doesn't even go into affect for 5 days.
So how do you or anyone know what is going to happen or the effects a year from now? I go back 10 years to the bi-partisan drug bill -- the general consensus you and others are feeding from thought it a rousing success -- well -- not quite

If your insurance doubles you don't understand the process. If your boss is raising your premiums your boss is cheating you
the law is very clear on who pays what and under what circumstances. Of course things will not be like they are today. Change is funny like that
Funny thing is if you google the effects of ACA you get two pages of links to people that have been wrong at every turn the past 25 years - on every subject and every event. From the war to cash for clunkers, the bail out of the auto industry to the above drug bill to strategies to overthrow this law. Of even more recently their criticisms of Obama over Syria. If this law is such a catastrophe why does draw such political ire? There are many indications learned opponents to this law fear it will be a success and will leave people satisfied
How is Massachusetts fairing under virtually the same program?

Tell me about the donut hole? Is that portion of the bill that went into affect a year or two ago working?
What about preexisting conditions-- ?
What about those with health care that have lost their jobs and would have lost their insurance until new employment was found?
Or even the move to paperless documentation?
How is ACA working for those people?
Why if those portions are getting the ball moving why would you so strongly doubt the success of the latest increment instead of take a wait and see approach?

I too would prefer single payer -- but we didnt get that - we got this. !/2 loaf vs whole loaf.

Bookmarked.

[57Brave]

Small businesses

Starting in 2014, employers with up to the equivalent of 50 full time employees — those working 30 hours or more — are not required to offer health insurance to full-time employees and are exempt from any penalties, according to the Small Business Administration website.

To encourage those employers to provide insurance, the Affordable Care Act created the Small Business Health Options Program. Businesses with fewer than 25 employees that choose to provide insurance anyway, are eligible for a tax credit to offset the cost.

SHOP allows small employers to pool their risk and get a better rate. In 2016, SHOP will be opened up to businesses with up to 100 employees.

The small business Health Care Tax Credit is targeted to those employers with low- and moderate-income workers. Businesses that have fewer than 25 full-time equivalent employees, pay average annual wages below $50,000, and that pay at least 50 percent or employees’ insurance premiums may qualify for the tax credit.

The tax credit will cover up to 35 percent of the costs of insurance. In 2014, it will go up to 50 percent and will be available to qualified small employers that participate in SHOP.

Large businesses

Businesses with more than 50 full-time employees will face a penalty for not providing affordable health care to employees starting in 2015.

Most large employers already offer health insurance but there are still two provisions that insurance must meet.

Under the act, if any employee has to pay more than 9.5 percent of their income to get the coverage offered by their employer, it is deemed unaffordable and the business would be fined.

The plan also must pay for at least 60 percent of covered health care expenses.

Those companies will be fined $2,000 per year for each full-time employee. The business will receive a credit and not be fined for

30 of those employees it does not cover. Every employee over that 30- person threshold not provided coverage will result in a fine.

For example, a company with 60 uninsured employees will pay a penalty of $60,000 per year for not providing coverage. The fine could increase each year if premiums increase.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/small-businesses-prepare-for-new-federal-affordable-care-law/article_fec309b8-2495-11e3-bb35-001a4bcf887a.html

[57Brave]

Employers with Up to 50 Employees
Key Provisions Under the Affordable Care Act for Employers with Up to 50 Employees

Implementation of the Affordable Care Act occurs in stages, with many of the reforms and requirements taking effect in 2013 and 2014. Some of the provisions that may impact employers with up to 50 employees include:

Small Business Health Options Program (SHOP)

Starting in 2014, small employers with generally up to 50 employees will have access to the new health care insurance marketplaces through the Small Business Health Options Program (SHOP). Currently, small businesses may pay on average 18% more than big businesses for health insurance because of administrative costs. SHOP will offer small employers increased purchasing power to obtain a better choice of high-quality coverage at a lower cost. Costs are lowered because small employers can pool their risk. To enroll, eligible employers must have an office within the service area of the SHOP and offer SHOP coverage to all full-time employees. In 2016, employers with up to 100 employees will be able to participate in SHOP. HHS recently launched a new Call Center specifically to serve small businesses with 50 or fewer employees interested in the SHOP Marketplace. For more information, call 1-800-706-7893 (TTY users: 1-800-706-7915) from Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. EST.

Employer Notice to Employees of the New Health Insurance Marketplace

Under the Affordable Care Act, employers covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act (generally, those firms that have at least one employee and at least $500,000 in annual dollar volume of business), must provide notification to their employees about the new Health Insurance Marketplace; inform employees that they may be eligible for a premium tax credit if they purchase coverage through the Marketplace; and advise employees that if they employee purchase a plan through the Marketplace, they may lose the employer contribution (if any) to any health benefits plan offered by the employer. Employers are required to provide this notice to all current employees by October 1, 2013, and to each new employee at the time of hire beginning October 1, 2013, regardless of plan enrollment status (if applicable) or of part-time or full-time status. The Department of Labor has provided employers with two sample notices they may use to comply with this rule, one for employers who do not offer Download Adobe Reader to read this link content a health plan and another for employers who offer a health plan Download Adobe Reader to read this link content for some or all employees. For more information refer to DOL’s Technical Guidance.

Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBCs) Disclosure Rules

Employers are required to provide employees with a standard “Summary of Benefits and Coverage” form explaining what their plan covers and what it costs. The purpose of the SBC form is to help employees better understand and evaluate their health insurance options. Penalties may be imposed for non-compliance. For more information, refer to this completed sample of the SBC form Download Adobe Reader to read this link content from the U.S. Department of Labor.

Medical Loss Ratio Rebates

Under ACA, insurance companies must spend at least 80% of premium dollars on medical care rather than administrative costs. Insurers who do not meet this ratio are required to provide rebates to their policyholders, which is typically an employer who provides a group health plan. Employers who receive these premium rebates must determine whether the rebates constitute plan assets. If treated as a plan asset, employers have discretion to determine a reasonable and fair allocation of the rebate. For more information on the federal tax treatment of Medical Loss Ratio rebates, refer to IRS's FAQs.

Limits on Flexible Spending Account Contributions

For plan years beginning on or after January 2013, the maximum amount an employee may elect to contribute to health care flexible spending arrangements (FSAs) for any year will be capped at $2500, subject to cost-of-living adjustments. Note that the limit only applies to elective employee contributions and does not extend to employer contributions. To learn more about FSA Contributions, as well as what is excluded from the cap, refer to this document Download Adobe Reader to read this link content provided by the IRS.

Additional Medicare Withholding on Wages

Beginning January 1, 2013, ACA increases the employee portion of the Medicare Part A Hospital Insurance (HI) withholdings by .9% (from 1.45% to 2.35%) on employees with incomes of over $200,000 for single filers and $250,000 for married joint filers. It is the employer’s obligation to withhold this additional tax, which applies only to wages in excess of these thresholds. The employer portion of the tax will remain unchanged at 1.45%.

New Medicare Assessment on Net Investment Income

Beginning January 1, 2013, a 3.8% tax will be assessed on net investment income such as taxable capital gains, dividends, rents, royalties, and interest for taxpayers with Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) over $200,000 for single filers and $250,000 for married joint filers. Common types of income that are not investment income are wages, unemployment compensation, operating income from a non-passive business, Social Security Benefits, alimony, tax-exempt interest, and self-employment income.

90-Day Maximum Waiting Period

Beginning January 1, 2014, individuals who are eligible for employer-provided health coverage will not have to wait more than 90 days to begin coverage. The IRS has provided temporary guidance Download Adobe Reader to read this link content on how employers should apply the 90-day rule and is expected to provide more information in the near future clarifying these rules.

Transitional Reinsurance Program Fees

The Transitional Reinsurance Program is a three-year program, beginning in 2014 and continuing until 2016, that reimburses insurers in the individual insurance Marketplaces for high claims costs. The program is funded through fees to be paid by employers (for self-insured plans) and insurers (for insured plans). The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services estimates that the fees for 2014 will be $5.25 a month (or $63 for the year) for each individual covered under a health care plan, with the required fee for the following two years to be somewhat lower. The fee applies to all employer-sponsored plans providing major medical coverage, including retiree programs. The U.S. Department of Labor has advised that for self-insured plans, these fees can be paid from plan assets. The IRS has stated that the fees are tax deductible for employers. HHS is expected to provide more information in the near future clarifying the details of this program.

Workplace Wellness Programs

The Affordable Care Act creates new incentives to promote employer wellness programs and encourage employers to take more opportunities to support healthier workplaces. Health-contingent wellness programs generally require individuals to meet a specific standard related to their health to obtain a reward, such as programs that provide a reward to employees who don’t use, or decrease their use of, tobacco, and programs that reward employees who achieve a specified level or lower cholesterol. Under final rules that take effect on January 1, 2014, the maximum reward to employers using a health-contingent wellness program will increase from 20 percent to 30 percent of the cost of health coverage. Additionally, the maximum reward for programs designed to prevent or reduce tobacco use will be as much as 50 percent. The final rules also allow for flexibility in the types of wellness programs employers can offer. For more information and to view the final rules, visit www.dol.gov/ebsa.

Health Insurance Coverage Reporting Requirements

Beginning with health coverage provided on or after January 1, 2014, employers that sponsor self-insured plans must submit reports Download Adobe Reader to read this link content to the IRS detailing information for each covered individual. The first of these reports must be filed in 2015. The IRS is expected to provide more information in the near future clarifying these requirements.

Find Insurance Options

Find and compare health plans for your employees.

Timeline of Provisions

The Affordable Care Act timeline provided by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services includes the next steps you can take to implement the provisions.

[The Chosen One]

All I can say is LOL TED CRUZ.

[Dalyn]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford ****.

[thethe]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford ****.

Call me a kiss ass but I don't see how someone as intelligent as you can't afford something.

Within reason of course...

[Dalyn]

Call me a kiss ass but I don't see how someone as intelligent as you can't afford something.

Within reason of course...

:fredi:



:happy0157:


You want to know why? I am a writer. :Sad:

[57Brave]

chart and article

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/obamacare-map-_n_3990491.html

[sturg33]

Let's read a few things from the actual bill, shall we?

http://www.newswithviews.com/Lane/lauren104.htm

[CK86]

This program seems well organized except for the whole delaying of everything for a year except of course the individual mandate. I also enjoy seeing the IRS not able to account for $67 million. Nice to see they're on top of things and there won't be any government waste.

[The Chosen One]

Saw something this morning that made me laugh for a few minutes then get quiet and sad.

When asked, more Americans opposed Obamacare versus The Affordable Care Act.

46% of Americans say they oppose Obamacare.
37% of Americans say they oppose the Affordable Care Act.

Quite comical, and quite sad.

At least we know what "news" channel that 9% is watching. No wonder Fox News brags about their ratings so much.

[sturg33]

Saw something this morning that made me laugh for a few minutes then get quiet and sad.

When asked, more Americans opposed Obamacare versus The Affordable Care Act.

46% of Americans say they oppose Obamacare.
37% of Americans say they oppose the Affordable Care Act.

Quite comical, and quite sad.

At least we know what "news" channel that 9% is watching. No wonder Fox News brags about their ratings so much.

You know that is just people being ignorant of what the Affordable Care Act actually is.

Literally, it's a good sounding bill. Much like the "Patriot Act." When someone asks "Do you oppose the Patriot Act?" People will of course say no! But if they knew what the bill actually was they would be against it.

Having said that, it shouldn't be surprising that many in this country support it. It's an entitlement country now - and who the hell cares if we have no long term viable option to pay for it.

[weso1]

All I can say is LOL TED CRUZ.

I know... what was he thinking?

link (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/27/ted-cruz-now-leads-gop-presidential-pack-poll/)

[zitothebrave]

You know that is just people being ignorant of what the Affordable Care Act actually is.

Literally, it's a good sounding bill. Much like the "Patriot Act." When someone asks "Do you oppose the Patriot Act?" People will of course say no! But if they knew what the bill actually was they would be against it.

Having said that, it shouldn't be surprising that many in this country support it. It's an entitlement country now - and who the hell cares if we have no long term viable option to pay for it.

Can't forget No Child Left Behind.

[thethe]

Can't forget No Child Left Behind.

Literally the worst piece of legislation in the history of this country.

[zitothebrave]

Literally the worst piece of legislation in the history of this country.

There are many worse, but it's really bad. Certainly one of the worst in the last decade or so though. But it doesn't hold a candle to Indian Removal Act, Fugitive Slave Act, Kansas Nebraska act, the 18th Amendment, the Volstead Act, and the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution to name a few were waaaay worse.

[thethe]

I wanted to be an educator prior to becoming a corporate slave. The future is education especially in the early years of children and this act completely destroyed any sense of creativity in the classroom. We haven't even begun to feel the disastorous affects of this policy.

[zitothebrave]

Oh it's a horrible law. The republicans really screwed the pooch for future generations. But it fits their MO screw the public schools, which appeases their constituents.

[sturg33]

I think we could just agree that the department of education was the real monstrosity.

But hey, Ron Paul is a whacko cause he wants to get rid of it!

[sturg33]

I know... what was he thinking?

link (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/27/ted-cruz-now-leads-gop-presidential-pack-poll/)

Two semi-libertarian folks leading the way... Maybe we can convince Ron to jump back in 2016. The more liberty voices the better (FYI- There is much I don't like about Cruz, but agree with him on a lot of things)

[The Chosen One]

I know... what was he thinking?

link (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/27/ted-cruz-now-leads-gop-presidential-pack-poll/)

Considering the state the Republican Party is in right now nationally, that's like leading the Wild Card race when you're 8 games back behind in the division.

And I already stated that Cruz was doing this strictly to boost his 2016 outlook, and that any conservative who genuinely thinks he's interested in stopping Obamacare (When he knows he has literally no chance) is no smarter than any Obama sheep.

[zitothebrave]

I think we could just agree that the department of education was the real monstrosity.

But hey, Ron Paul is a whacko cause he wants to get rid of it!

DOEd was fine until Bust expanded it drastically.

[goldfly]

i still don't get why he didn't actually filibuster it if he actually felt the way he said he felt

[57Brave]

Wow, it is October 1 and the sun rose - no one has been enslaved YET - the death panels haven't sent anyone to Georgia yet and seems like everything is normal
What happened -- thought today was to be THE DAY -- makes me wonder if Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Mark Levine and Ruch Limbaugh et al might have gotten a little hyperbolic??

Seriously:
Rhode Island goal is 100,000 enrollees by the end of 2014.

Talked to a married couple in their early 60's last night one an independent building contractor and the other a hair stylist that looked into the exchanges and found they will save at least over $200 a month and get more coverage. Of course our state is the most saturated with insurance companies so there is competition amongst the providers to get the business. Wyoming not so much.

To say the least, this will be interesting to see how this plays out and just how long before we finally get single payer / Medicare for all

[57Brave]

thought this from twitter interesting::

Richard Yeselson ‏@yeselson 8h

Essentially, federalism/rabid conservative opposition will make Obamacare a mostly blue state program. Tragedy for uninsured in red states.
Retweeted by EJ Dionne

[50PoundHead]

I think we could just agree that the department of education was the real monstrosity.

But hey, Ron Paul is a whacko cause he wants to get rid of it!

Getting rid of the DOE wouldn't repeal NCLB (which I agree is a terrible law). That has to happen through congressional action and both parties still seem wedded to a number of the core concepts of the law (regardless that it is now Race to the Top). If you eliminated the DOE, 100% of the money they distribute through Title I and Special Education funding and about 90% of the employees in the department would simply be shifted back to HHS (which was HEW before the DOE was created).

[gilesfan]

Talked to a married couple in their early 60's last night one an independent building contractor and the other a hair stylist that looked into the exchanges and found they will save at least over $200 a month and get more coverage. Of course our state is the most saturated with insurance companies so there is competition amongst the providers to get the business. Wyoming not so much. l

Thats surprising. It's going to cost everyone I've talked to a **** ton more money, including myself.

[thethe]

My dad is bitching about how much more its costing him per month and that his coverages are dropping and he is retired on medicare/cade (always mess them up).

[goldfly]

My dad is bitching about how much more its costing him per month and that his coverages are dropping and he is retired on medicare/cade (always mess them up).

uh

what?

[thethe]

My dad was just bitching to me how more money is coming out of his social security to pay for his benefits and that less of his health care expenses are being covered. Sorry, I didn't memorize what they are just know that he was pissed off about it.

[Tapate50]

Funny, claim was no medical info being asked, but last I checked Height\Weight is medical info... I wonder how many folks are going to lie just to get cheaper rates...Everybody probably? Exchanges aren't answering the phone this morning either...

[Tapate50]

Wow, it is October 1 and the sun rose - no one has been enslaved YET - the death panels haven't sent anyone to Georgia yet and seems like everything is normal
What happened -- thought today was to be THE DAY -- makes me wonder if Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Mark Levine and Ruch Limbaugh et al might have gotten a little hyperbolic??

Seriously:
Rhode Island goal is 100,000 enrollees by the end of 2014.

Talked to a married couple in their early 60's last night one an independent building contractor and the other a hair stylist that looked into the exchanges and found they will save at least over $200 a month and get more coverage. Of course our state is the most saturated with insurance companies so there is competition amongst the providers to get the business. Wyoming not so much.

To say the least, this will be interesting to see how this plays out and just how long before we finally get single payer / Medicare for all

Wait, are you from RI?

[57Brave]

Unless you live in Wyoming , Indiana or another state where health care insurance companies are not plentiful (yet) there is no reason why your costs should be so high.
Have you or your father investigated the tax subsidies available? Something tells me you have only brushed the surface of the programs and haven't read into the details of what is available.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/09/new-york-guide-to-signing-up-for-obamacare.html





Today at 9:17 AM
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A New Yorker’s Guide to Signing Up for Obamacare

By Tim Murphy

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LAKEWOOD, CO - DECEMBER 01: Physician's assistant Erin Frazier checks Jair Castillo, 3, at a community health center for low-income patients on December 1, 2009 in Lakewood, Colorado. The Metro Community Provider Network (MCPN), which has 11 health centers in the Denver area, has seen a 138 percent increase in patients during the last year of recession. Community health centers such as MCPN could play a major role nationally if health care reform is passed, with increased subsidies from the federal government as well as millions of newly-insured low-income citizens seeking care. (Photo by John Moore/Getty Images)

For years, Obamacare has been something of an abstraction in the public discourse. We've heard about it constantly, but only as something vague and vast looming in the future. Today that changes with the beginning of open enrollment for Obamacare health-insurance plans. This sign-up period lasts for two and a half months, with coverage kicking in on January 1. Government shutdown notwithstanding, Obamacare will almost certainly take effect on schedule, because the Affordable Care Act is paid for with non-discretionary funding (i.e., the kind that won’t be affected by the shutdown).

So ignore the current drama in Washington and bone up on everything you need to know about America's new health-care regime. For starters, keep in mind that the insurance won't be called "Obamacare" — each state has its own exchange and its own name for the program. There are even some substantial differences in terms of cost and availability within a state. For some help in figuring out the basics for residents of New York City, we chatted with Elisabeth Benjamin at Community Service Society, one of many local nonprofits paid by the federal government to help people navigate their way through the sea of new options. She helped us put together this handy Obamacare FAQ sheet:

Who's eligible for Obamacare?
Just about everybody under 65 (after that, it's all about Medicare). But, of course, the programs will be of interest mostly to people who are not currently insured. The only subgroup not eligible for Obamacare are undocumented immigrants. But they can still use the state web portal — known officially as the New York State of Health Marketplace — to access a number of other health-care programs.

What if I already have insurance through work or school?
You don't need to do anything — though it's probably worth paying attention anyway in case you ever need to buy coverage in the future. The exception is if you are currently paying more than 9.5 percent of your income for coverage, in which case it's worth pricing out Obamacare plans, as you will likely be eligible for financial assistance.

What if I'm already paying for individual insurance (through, say, the Freelancers Union)?
Again, you should probably check out the Health Marketplace before you renew your current policy. While New Yorkers have long been able to purchase individual insurance regardless of age or health status, many of the plans are expensive. With this new wave of options hitting the market, you might find something more affordable — whether or not you qualify for a government subsidy (more about that below).

Okay, sounds like Obamacare might be right for me — but I'd like some bureaucratic hand-holding. Can I get some help from an actual human being?
Call the Health Marketplace at 1-855-355-5777. Or go to an "in-person assistor" — that is, a real live person, highly knowledgeable, who will sit with you and help you identify the best health-care option. In New York City, there will be twenty locations for these helpers (find one here). Alternatively, you can contact a nonprofit group like Community Service Society (212-254-8900, enroll@cssny.org) for in-person or telephonic assistance.

How good are the policies — and what do they cost?
As with pretty much everything else in life, what you get depends on how much you are willing to spend. There are four primary tiers of coverage under Obamacare, each represented by a precious metal. A platinum plan is, of course, more blinged out and comprehensive than a bronze plan. (There is also a bare-bones fifth plan — more about that below.) The rack price for a given plan doesn't take subsidies into account — so remember that your out-of-pocket cost might ultimately be much lower than the figures cited. In all cases, family plans are 2.85 times the cost of individual plans. Here are the numbers for New York City:

Platinum: These top-tier policies will pay 90 percent or more of all your health-care costs. In New York City, Platinum plans range from around $450 per month (for Metro Plus or HHC ) to $913 (for United). You will have no deductible and your maximum out-of-pocket health costs each year will be capped at $2,000.

Gold: Insurance will pay around 80 percent of your health costs, with a $600 deductible and maximum annual out-of-pocket expense of $4,000. The plans cost between $395 and $750.

Silver: Ranging between $360 and $635, these plans will cover 70 percent of costs with a $2,000 deductible and a $5500 maximum out of pocket. If you make less than $28,700 annually, you may qualify for subsidies on your out-of-pocket expenses.

Bronze: These will cover 60 percent of costs, with a $3,000 deductible and $6350 maximum out of pocket. In New York City, a Bronze plan costs as little as $308 per month.

Catastrophic: People up to age 30 — and certain others who get an exemption — can buy a catastrophic plan offering 50 percent coverage for $183/month (and up).

That still sounds too expensive. What about those subsidies?
Yes, indeed. Subsidies are a huge part of the appeal of Obamacare, and many people who seek coverage will qualify. The Marketplace will assess your eligibility based on income, where you live, and immigration status. You probably won't have to provide income documentation unless the data you input is not reasonably compatible with the government wage and tax data bases. You can decide if you want to get your subsidy every month off your premium or take it as a big check at tax time.

They're not worried about fraud?
Not really — if you claim too much of a subsidy, you'll owe Uncle Sam the difference when you file your tax returns.

How much would my subsidy be?
First of all, with Medicaid eligibility expansion in New York State, if you make below about $15,000, you will now be eligible for Medicaid. (The current cutoff is about $11,500.) So that's a total free ride on health care, and New York State Medicaid is very good. As an individual, if you make between that and up to $46,000, you're eligible for subsidies. (Again, the figures are higher if you're looking for a family policy.) To find out just how much you'll pay, based on your income, check out this handy-dandy subsidy calculator.

Even if you don't qualify for subsidies, the Obamacare plans are still likely to be meaningfully cheaper than anything you could have gotten on the open market yesterday.

Any other perks under Obamacare?
Yes, for one thing, under the Affordable Care Act, all plans everywhere have to cover mental health equal with physical health. That means if your plan covers 80 percent of your physical health bills, they have to cover 80 percent of your mental health bills as well. In addition, you can no longer be barred from a plan owing to a preexisting condition, age, or other factors.

What if I'm uninsured and have no desire to change that state of affairs?
You'll list that on your 2014 tax return. The fee for not signing up for coverage is $95 per adult and $47.50 per child (up to $285 per family), or one percent of your income, whichever is higher. In 2015, that fee jumps to $325 per adult and $162.50 per child, or 2 percent of your income. While some holdouts may opt for the fee, experts predict most people will eventually sign up for insurance.

[thethe]

When you mention tax subsidies are you just talking about deductions? And are these deductions above the line or below the line?

[57Brave]

from the above article:

That still sounds too expensive. What about those subsidies?
Yes, indeed. Subsidies are a huge part of the appeal of Obamacare, and many people who seek coverage will qualify. The Marketplace will assess your eligibility based on income, where you live, and immigration status. You probably won't have to provide income documentation unless the data you input is not reasonably compatible with the government wage and tax data bases. You can decide if you want to get your subsidy every month off your premium or take it as a big check at tax time.
///

thethe
I hope I don't come across smart ass here, but I have been posting this information for 2 years.
In the case of my family, this law has no affect(?) on us until we retire a couple years down the road.
For the time being we are keeping our current coverage

from the above article I'd add that I am pretty sure number of dependents factors into the amount of subsidy people are eligible to receive

[thethe]

My father has no dependents and while he doesn't have a lot of money I doubt he falls in the income line where he is eligible for subsidies.

I don't like vague statements like many who seek coverage will qualify. Why can't there be dollar amounts?

[57Brave]

There are -- you have to look for them. Just like you'd shop for anything else.

[thethe]

There are -- you have to look for them. Just like you'd shop for anything else.

I'd imgaine that you would just post them because you are taking up the cause as to why we are wrong in saying this is costing eveyrone more.

[57Brave]

I am posting information.
I know the law and it's implications only as far as it affects(?) me and mine. But seeing mis information after mis information taken as gospel I feel a responsibility to help straighten the record.
Have been saying for over 2 years, the information is there - there is no reason intelligent people should still be ignorant of what is available to them .
From everything I've read there is no reason anyones insurances should go up by Foxnewsian proportions. And that thethe is what you are telling me.

If I buy a new $25K Chevrolet for $35K. Who is at fault - me or chevrolet?

[57Brave]

from above:

What if I already have insurance through work or school?
You don't need to do anything — though it's probably worth paying attention anyway in case you ever need to buy coverage in the future. The exception is if you are currently paying more than 9.5 percent of your income for coverage, in which case it's worth pricing out Obamacare plans, as you will likely be eligible for financial assistance.

[thethe]

I am posting information.
I know the law and it's implications only as far as it affects(?) me and mine. But seeing mis information after mis information taken as gospel I feel a responsibility to help straighten the record.
Have been saying for over 2 years, the information is there - there is no reason intelligent people should still be ignorant of what is available to them .
From everything I've read there is no reason anyones insurances should go up by Foxnewsian proportions. And that thethe is what you are telling me.

If I buy a new $25K Chevrolet for $35K. Who is at fault - me or chevrolet?

All I have said is what my father told me. I really don't know how medicare works. Are there additional options to purchase? I can find out to be sure but all I know is that he was really pissed off.

[57Brave]

that is what the marketplace exchanges are all about. All of the insurance companies provide the different levels of coverage at competitive pricing. The example I gave this morning about my two friends -- their pricing was on the exchange compared to their current policy. And, what I think they were saying was their current policy -- the rates did go up a little

There are links above to the detailed information you and / or your father are looking for

[sturg33]

I am posting information.
I know the law and it's implications only as far as it affects(?) me and mine. But seeing mis information after mis information taken as gospel I feel a responsibility to help straighten the record.
Have been saying for over 2 years, the information is there - there is no reason intelligent people should still be ignorant of what is available to them .
From everything I've read there is no reason anyones insurances should go up by Foxnewsian proportions. And that thethe is what you are telling me.

If I buy a new $25K Chevrolet for $35K. Who is at fault - me or chevrolet?

LOL... I'm just posting about me and mines. And my health care premiums are going up up up. Why? Because now I have to subsidize people in my company who weren't getting any corporate health insurance.

My premiums are doubling BECAUSE of ObamaCare.

Eventually, corporations will just pay the fine and drop everyone. And then you will really see your uninsured folks

[57Brave]

have you looked at dropping your companies policy and using the exchanges?

[sturg33]

have you looked at dropping your companies policy and using the exchanges?

No because I'm not an idiot. My policy is incredible.

[57Brave]

you just finished saying your premiums were doubling? How is that incredible?

Where I come from that is called cutting off your nose to spite your face

[thethe]

I'd imagine that other options are even more expensive.

[sturg33]

you just finished saying your premiums were doubling? How is that incredible?

Where I come from that is called cutting off your nose to spite your face

I have great coverage and pay very little premiums. However, my premiums doubled this year, and I'm sure that next week it will be doubled for next year. That's not to say I don't have a good plan, because I still do, but it's going to cost me a lot more money

[thethe]

I have great coverage and pay very little premiums. However, my premiums doubled this year, and I'm sure that next week it will be doubled for next year. That's not to say I don't have a good plan, because I still do, but it's going to cost me a lot more money

Which is ridiculous. You earned the job you have and one of the benefits of your ability and work ethic are those benefits. However, now everybody gets them. How happy a country are we now!!!

[Tapate50]

I get concerned that the more people we get in the cart, the less we have pulling it. Big picture. The government can only tax productivity, which seems anti - well ....productive.



Premiums aren't going to go down. You can't add a bunch of people to the pool without pricing for preexisting conditions and expect a decrease. Costs are rising for business and will be passed on to everyone. Then comes a minimum wage hike, which will also be passed on to consumers....just seems like chasing your tail.

I wonder once I get taxed for my " benefits " and then they happen to see a retirement account not taxed as well...

[50PoundHead]

I have great coverage and pay very little premiums. However, my premiums doubled this year, and I'm sure that next week it will be doubled for next year. That's not to say I don't have a good plan, because I still do, but it's going to cost me a lot more money

The Affordable Care Act is contributing to some of the increase, but there are a lot of other reasons that insurance rates increase (pool size, risk rating, etc.). I believe that the Affordable Care Act does contribute in terms of some back-door taxes that have been implemented and I think Congress should have gone through the front door with those increases. And I say all this as someone who supports extending health insurance to the uninsured. There was a better way to get this done and I think the Senate fell prey to a lot of the corporate interests lobbying against certain aspects of the bill.

[Tapate50]

Exchange is still down and unresponsive...

[57Brave]

sturg & ace
?????

http://www.upworthy.com/obamacare-claims-its-first-victims-dudes-who-dont-understand-obamacare?c=bl

[Julio3000]

Exchange is still down and unresponsive...

It's sharing servers with Rockstar.

[Tapate50]

It's sharing servers with Rockstar.

I bet this whole "shutdown" deal is because Pilosi wants to get her GTA V on.... Betcha money.

[sturg33]

Question for 57 - please answer directly without giving some link to comb through.

If Obamacare is so great, why has congress gone out of their way to excuse themselves from it?

[57Brave]

I have no idea.

and find it beside the point

[57Brave]

i had heard f it when it happened and kinda just passed it by as just something else the shiney object watchers attached themselves to.

Sturg --- i simply googled "congress excluded from ..." why cant you do that and learn something . ON YOUR OWN

here: you might have to sludge through a paragraph or two.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/25/fact-check-congress-staff-are-exempt-from-obamacare/

"
When Obamacare was passed into law, Sen. Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican, attached language to the bill that mandated members of Congress and their staffers would have to buy health insurance on the newly created health insurance exchanges. What nobody accounted for at the time was that members of Congress and their staffers currently have health insurance through their employer – the federal government. No other employer has been legally required to drop its employee’s health care plan and have them buy coverage on the exchanges.:"

Pretty simple explanation - so Congress is just like you and me now. They can use it or not.
Sheeesh

[sturg33]

i had heard f it when it happened and kinda just passed it by as just something else the shiney object watchers attached themselves to.

Sturg --- i simply googled "congress excluded from ..." why cant you do that and learn something . ON YOUR OWN

here: you might have to sludge through a paragraph or two.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/25/fact-check-congress-staff-are-exempt-from-obamacare/

"
When Obamacare was passed into law, Sen. Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican, attached language to the bill that mandated members of Congress and their staffers would have to buy health insurance on the newly created health insurance exchanges. What nobody accounted for at the time was that members of Congress and their staffers currently have health insurance through their employer – the federal government. No other employer has been legally required to drop its employee’s health care plan and have them buy coverage on the exchanges.:"

Pretty simple explanation - so Congress is just like you and me now. They can use it or not.
Sheeesh

haha - but they are not fined if they choose not to have health insurance. I am

[57Brave]

I take it back - that was uncalled for :)

I dont know if they get fined or not. Or if you get fined and honestl dont care.

All I know is I am keeping my current coverage - in a few years when I am retired my prescription drugs wont be as expensive as they were in 2010 and some poor woman with a small child somewhere has access to a mamogram.
Or some grad student that falls and breaks his leg doesn't get a $30,000 bill and someone who gets layed off gets to keep coverage from previous employer until he/she finds new employment.
Pretty simple really.

Ever been laid off Sturg? It is a bitch -- under the old system then when you get re-employed you would have to start all over with new HC coverage and provider. Now, you get to keep old coverage -- if you choose.

That seems to be a pretty frequent word used in HC discussions the past few days "choose" "choice"

[sturg33]

why would you chose to not have health insurance?

again I ask, are you 8?

Because I am young and completely healthy. Haven't been to the doctor in 3 years... The money I could have saved in the last few years could have been invest and made me a lot more money.

But THAT is beside the point - the point is, why are congressmen getting to play by different rules than we are? Why did they go out of their way to get themselves out of this bill? Their aides? Some big business? WHY? IT'S SO AMAZING

[thethe]

Why wouldn't you want the choice whether or not to get Health Insurance?

[57Brave]

If I run a red light I get a ticket. If a cop runs a red light ...
If George Bush gets a DWI he gets off
Pretty sure the desserts are a dollar in the congressional cafeteria too. Do you know that the Speaker of the House gets his own airplane?

Life just aint fair --- is it? :)

I've told you, I don't know and don't care!

[sturg33]

If I run a red light I get a ticket. If a cop runs a red light ...
If George Bush gets a DWI he gets off
Pretty sure the desserts are a dollar in the congressional cafeteria too. Do you know that the Speaker of the House gets his own airplane?

Life just aint fair --- is it? :)

I've told you, I don't know and don't care!

You're exactly right. Because if a cop runs a red light, there is a negative thing consequence (he gets a ticket and loses money), so he exempts himself.

If Bush gets a DWI, there is a bad consequence (he loses lisence etc etc), so he is excused to avoid that bad consequence

And if congress was forced into a ****ty health care system, there would be a bad consequence (they would be in a ****ty health care system). So they excuse themselves, and let us suffer.

[sturg33]

Why wouldn't you want the choice whether or not to get Health Insurance or not?

Because the government knows best and should be able to control our lives. Why would they care about individual liberty?

[sturg33]

Oh and just to be clear, 57 - you never answered the question. Why did they work so hard to excuse themself from this amazing law?

If you say congressmen get benefits that regular americans don't, you're just proving the point that it is a bad system - because congress is getting the benefit of avoiding it. If that is what you meant, then I wholeheartedly agree.

[Tapate50]

Word from the industry in our area is that rates will be the same in the exchange as outside it, but that rate is yet "undetermined" for Jan 1 (well no one can get any answers either way IE Exchange is locked up by the Harry Reid Crime a thon on GTA).

[The Chosen One]

**** is going down.

Reid's office leaked emails from Boehner saying to exempt Congress from Obamacare.

Glenn Beck is irrate.

[bravesnumberone]

Hardly surprising.

[Metaphysicist]

Because I am young and completely healthy. Haven't been to the doctor in 3 years... The money I could have saved in the last few years could have been invest and made me a lot more money.

That's some elite-level risk-assessment there.

Also, you should probably go get a physical.

[CK86]

Unlimited resources and they still can't get the website to work. Government at its finest.

[sturg33]

That's some elite-level risk-assessment there.

Also, you should probably go get a physical.


I suppose you don't read too well. But I do have insurance. I was just answering his question about why would someone choose not to have it.

And I have a physical every year - required from my job. What I mean by doctor is not needing to go to doctor for illness.

[Metaphysicist]

Did I say you lacked insurance? Everyone knows you have health insurance. You complain about how much you are going to have to pay for it all the time. Don't think my reading comprehension is the problem here.

[sturg33]

I'm still waiting for 57 to answer my question.

[57Brave]

I did -- twice actually

I don't know and I don't care.
Then I added the reasoning - which satisfies me.

Sen Grassley tacked onto the ACA that govt employees had to use the markets. The government (or anyone else for that matter) can not dictate what insurance program a person must use. From my understanding the exemption address' this error

[BedellBrave]

Carry on: Link (http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-who-understands-8-of-obamacare-vigorously-defe,34022/).

[weso1]

In a shocking turn of events I've decided to do a complete 180 on this issue. I now fully support Obamacare and I think it will be a huge success. However, I am giving full credit of this brilliant legislation to the one person who truly deserves it. Thank you Mitt Romney.

[The Chosen One]

Because I am young and completely healthy. Haven't been to the doctor in 3 years... The money I could have saved in the last few years could have been invest and made me a lot more money.


Funny because I feel the exact same way about car insurance.

I drive better than other people around me, I'm a safe and cautious driver. Never had an accident.

Yet car insurance is mandatory... just imagine what I could do with that money I've wasted the last 5 years on car insurance. I've never claimed anything.

[sturg33]

Funny because I feel the exact same way about car insurance.

I drive better than other people around me, I'm a safe and cautious driver. Never had an accident.

Yet car insurance is mandatory... just imagine what I could do with that money I've wasted the last 5 years on car insurance. I've never claimed anything.

I happen to agree with you. But it's not a valid comparrison.

Car insurance is mandated from the states - constitutionally legal

It can be argued you may need car insurance because you can hurt someone else or someone else's property, and if you do, you need to be able to pay for it.

[The Chosen One]

I happen to agree with you. But it's not a valid comparrison.

Car insurance is mandated from the states - constitutionally legal

It can be argued you may need car insurance because you can hurt someone else or someone else's property, and if you do, you need to be able to pay for it.

I can argue despite you being young and healthy, that at anytime you could obtain a sickness or have one laying dormant that won't unleash wrath on you until you least expect it.

[sturg33]

I can argue despite you being young and healthy, that at anytime you could obtain a sickness or have one laying dormant that won't unleash wrath on you until you least expect it.

Sure - but that is damage to myself, not someone else.

[Tapate50]

I can argue despite you being young and healthy, that at anytime you could obtain a sickness or have one laying dormant that won't unleash wrath on you until you least expect it.

You can't really indemnify yourself in that case, or there really isn't a law about indemnifying yourself for sickness.

[Metaphysicist]

Sure - but that is damage to myself, not someone else.

Except for the people who pay for your uninsured care. This merry-go-round of arguments was old 4 years ago...

[Tapate50]

Why wouldn't he be responsible for his own care costs?

[Metaphysicist]

Really? This is like the old argument about Obamacare there is. I refuse to believe anyone bored enough to be talking about this on the internet hasn't already heard this exact same exchange 100 times.

[bravesnumberone]

How about gun insurance? :icwudt:

[BedellBrave]

ACA - it's the law of the land. Why shouldn't folks' premiums double, deductibles escalate, and get crappier coverage?

[Tapate50]

Really? This is like the old argument about Obamacare there is. I refuse to believe anyone bored enough to be talking about this on the internet hasn't already heard this exact same exchange 100 times.

Shocking I know.

[50PoundHead]

Sure - but that is damage to myself, not someone else.

Not when you show up in the emergency room, get expensive coverage, and can't pay for it.

[sturg33]

Not when you show up in the emergency room, get expensive coverage, and can't pay for it.

I assume you know my position on this

[50PoundHead]

I assume you know my position on this

Actually, I don't.

[57Brave]

Really? This is like the old argument about Obamacare there is. I refuse to believe anyone bored enough to be talking about this on the internet hasn't already heard this exact same exchange 100 times.

Along these lines - finding it hard to believe that after 2 years of endless debate - pissing and moaning about a 1000 page bill know one had the time to read that 3 years later people that claim to have a handle on current events still have no idea how this bill affects (?) them and what works and doesn't for their life

I also find it stupid that by trying to provide explanation on how it works or suggest a means of working through it all people think about is Obama Derangement Syndrome

[sturg33]

Along these lines - finding it hard to believe that after 2 years of endless debate - pissing and moaning about a 1000 page bill know one had the time to read that 3 years later people that claim to have a handle on current events still have no idea how this bill affects (?) them and what works and doesn't for their life

I also find it stupid that by trying to provide explanation on how it works or suggest a means of working through it all people think about is Obama Derangement Syndrome

Dude - I know how it affects me, it is costing me a lot more money with ZERO additional benefits. Why don't you understand that?

[Tapate50]

There won't be any benefit here either. Rates will be the same in exchange as outside of it. Rates will be higher, and you get penalized for not having it. Sweet deal for the uninsured!

[sturg33]

There won't be any benefit here either. Rates will be the same in exchange as outside of it. Rates will be higher, and you get penalized for not having it. Sweet deal for the uninsured!

That's the hilarious thing about the plan... If you didn't have insurance, there is a good bet than you couldn't afford to have it. Now, this plan makes it so you HAVE to pay to have it, or else you're fined.

I love the line "more affordable and more accessible." It's neither. All it is is forced.

[Tapate50]

That's the hilarious thing about the plan... If you didn't have insurance, there is a good bet than you couldn't afford to have it. Now, this plan makes it so you HAVE to pay to have it, or else you're fined.

I love the line "more affordable and more accessible." It's neither. All it is is forced.

And expensive. But hey, we don't understand it right?

[Coredor]

The people it's wonderful for are self employed people who are getting older and have health risks. My dad has to buy his own health insurance even though he makes a good bit of money. He had melanoma at one time. His health insurance premiums are not pretty even though he has always had insurance.

The young and healthy need to realize that insurance is to cover them when they're no longer young and/or healthy. That's the thing some people can't get through their thick skulls. It's no good if your premiums go through the roof or they cancel you once you get sick.

[Tapate50]

The people it's wonderful for are self employed people who are getting older and have health risks. My dad has to buy his own health insurance even though he makes a good bit of money. He had melanoma at one time. His health insurance premiums are not pretty even though he has always had insurance.

The young and healthy need to realize that insurance is to cover them when they're no longer young and/or healthy. That's the thing some people can't get through their thick skulls. It's no good if your premiums go through the roof or they cancel you once you get sick.

To be fair, a thick skull can't help or hurt insurance premiums since there are no medical records used. I would think its a benefit though.

I couldn't help but zero in on the last sentence. I am fairly certain that both those outcomes are still very possible. Any ideas what his rates look like pre\post?

[sturg33]

57 - you're thoughts?

http://benswann.com/exclusive-many-americans-suffering-sticker-shock-is-obamacare-really-affordable/

[sturg33]

An embarrassing display of "journalism" but she gets owned by this GOP congressman

http://youngcons.com/msnbcs-andrea-mitchell-is-speechless-after-rep-sean-duffy-r-wi-schools-her-on-obamacare/

[57Brave]

I think this is where you go to find talking points

[sturg33]

I was just asking you what your thoughts on the article were... You mind sharing?

[Krgrecw]

An embarrassing display of "journalism" but she gets owned by this GOP congressman

http://youngcons.com/msnbcs-andrea-mitchell-is-speechless-after-rep-sean-duffy-r-wi-schools-her-on-obamacare/


I like Sean Duffy. He was on a The Real World Boston.

[57Brave]

I think the Administration should have shut down the government and defaulted on the debt until they were given a single payer health care system. but hey, that's just how I roll

[sturg33]

So do you have any thoughts on the article above? or no?

[57Brave]

wrote them . 99 kajillion times while the law was being debated.

[sturg33]

I'm asking you your opinion on the article above. It was written today so you've never commented on it.

Why do you think those workers are struggling so much finding a good rate? You not commenting tells me you have no talking points to fall back on.

[Tapate50]

Losing John Stewart...:Gasp:

[Coredor]

To be fair, a thick skull can't help or hurt insurance premiums since there are no medical records used. I would think its a benefit though.

I couldn't help but zero in on the last sentence. I am fairly certain that both those outcomes are still very possible. Any ideas what his rates look like pre\post?

He's looking into getting new insurance now, but at one point his premiums were up to about 35K a year for him and my much younger sister. He had gotten it down to about 19 though I believe although I'm not really sure about the exact numbers. I just know he paid a ton for insurance purchased as an individual.

That's part of the health insurance law though. You cannot deny coverage on the exchange or discriminate due to price for pre-existing conditions or health risks. In his case it would have been a past condition since he's been healthy for years. It's frustrating that people don't understand this. You can be healthy your entire life and something can go wrong. If you're uninsured it can break you or if you purchase insurance on your own your rates can sky rocket. Too often people who make "free market" decisions to not buy insurance forget that they might need it one day. The individual mandate is really a way to protect people from their own ignorance.

I understand this more than most people though due to personal experience. My mother died of cancer, and my father had cancer and recovered. I'm bipolar and spend a lot on that although I'm otherwise healthy. I also get insurance through work. Honestly though my family is very well off. None of us have had a problem paying the bills, but most people would have been devastated.

[57Brave]

I'm asking you your opinion on the article above. It was written today so you've never commented on it.

Why do you think those workers are struggling so much finding a good rate? You not commenting tells me you have no talking points to fall back on.

You are right, I have no talking points to counter the article and no earthly idea why a person in Minnesota and another person in Alabama is struggling. I dont know these people, their lifestyles or health conditions. Or more importantly in the case of this article, their political persuasion.

this quote:
“For years we have worked hard and stood on our own feet. Now this man (President Obama) has wrecked my finances and I am supposed to trust him to give me government money so that I can be insured and have the ability to take my children to the doctor. I was proud to be insured. At this point I’d rather be uninsured then depend on this man,” she said.

///
Let me add, my family is not using the exchanges so I have very limited knowledge of their rates, practicality or coverage. There are not enough hours in the day for me to research a program that i won't be using any time soon

[Tapate50]

I hope people realize these exchanges were a complete waste of money . They already exist , and they are called insurance agents. If anyone wanted to learn about health insurance or educate themselves on a plan, all they needed to do was a take a few minutes of their time ( just like anything else).

57, do you think it's outrageous that Obama should enroll in Obamacare? The law unofficially has his name attached. If it's great for the people then jump on in and lead by example. Does not seem like a CYA move to me at all.

Individuals don't get the one year cushion but bigbusiness does? Who isn't looking out for joe ordinary now? Should be level playing field, or at least it would have been if i had dialed up my lobbyist in time. Oh wait.

[Tapate50]

That's part of the health insurance law though. You cannot deny coverage on the exchange or discriminate due to price for pre-existing conditions or health risks. In his case it would have been a past condition since he's been healthy for years. It's frustrating that people don't understand this. You can be healthy your entire life and something can go wrong. If you're uninsured it can break you or if you purchase insurance on your own your rates can sky rocket. Too often people who make "free market" decisions to not buy insurance forget that they might need it one day. The individual mandate is really a way to protect people from their own ignorance.



I sincerely hope he finds relief, but honestly I don't think so. The rates in our area will be exactly the same in the exchange as outside of it, but are yet undecided (which means they haven't decided how much they are going up). So there won't be any benefit in our area except that you get a fine for not having it. (Which gives insurors little incentive to get competitive on rates).

Just because you can't ask about existing conditions doesn't mean the rate will be better. In fact, the insurer has actuaries that will likely assume the worst to protect themselves because he is quite healthy and no recent history, so he could get penalized .

[sturg33]

You are right, I have no talking points to counter the article and no earthly idea why a person in Minnesota and another person in Alabama is struggling. I dont know these people, their lifestyles or health conditions. Or more importantly in the case of this article, their political persuasion.

this quote:
“For years we have worked hard and stood on our own feet. Now this man (President Obama) has wrecked my finances and I am supposed to trust him to give me government money so that I can be insured and have the ability to take my children to the doctor. I was proud to be insured. At this point I’d rather be uninsured then depend on this man,” she said.

///
Let me add, my family is not using the exchanges so I have very limited knowledge of their rates, practicality or coverage. There are not enough hours in the day for me to research a program that i won't be using any time soon

But your first post in this thread is saying that if you already have insurance, this law does not affect you... Clearly - it affects folks at Trader Joe's, and they are paying a much heavier price for the "affordable and accessible health care"

[sturg33]

I sincerely hope he finds relief, but honestly I don't think so. The rates in our area will be exactly the same in the exchange as outside of it, but are yet undecided (which means they haven't decided how much they are going up). So there won't be any benefit in our area except that you get a fine for not having it. (Which gives insurors little incentive to get competitive on rates).

Just because you can't ask about existing conditions doesn't mean the rate will be better. In fact, the insurer has actuaries that will likely assume the worst to protect themselves because he is quite healthy and no recent history, so he could get penalized .

Yep. I work for an insurance company - and they automatically price in fraud.

You can bet that health insurance companies will automatically price in pre-existing conditions

[Tapate50]

Yep. I work for an insurance company - and they automatically price in fraud.

You can bet that health insurance companies will automatically price in pre-existing conditions

Remember, you have been told you clearly do not understand the way this works. It must be true, 57 quoted Tumblr on it.

[sturg33]

Remember, you have been told you clearly do not understand the way this works. It must be true, 57 quoted Tumblr on it.

Good point. I'll shut up now and assume my increasing premiums are totally organic.

[57Brave]

I'll repeat, if you're rates increased two fold one of two things happened. a) you are not accessing the info properly b) you are buying insurance for yourself for the first time.In the latter case you would be suffering from sticker shock. A family member with one child has gone from $1200 a month to $2500 per year. She too is paying for her own insurance for the first time and her reactions to cost were very similar to yours.

[sturg33]

I'll repeat, if you're rates increased two fold one of two things happened. a) you are not accessing the info properly b) you are buying insurance for yourself for the first time.In the latter case you would be suffering from sticker shock. A family member with one child has gone from $1200 a month to $2500 per year. She too is paying for her own insurance for the first time and her reactions to cost were very similar to yours.

Not sure what you're talking about...

So jsut to be clear - the article stated above, the one you are incapable of commenting on, states that Trader Joe's dropped their insurance for part-time employees (get used to that happening)... And those employees then found that Obamacare insurance is twice as expensive, with worse coverage, and an absurd deductible. But I'm sure that is just them not understanding how the law works.

[57Brave]

I will humor you.

Went back to your article and used the calculator.
Input US Average
$20,000 because I guess that would be max a part time worker gets
1 Adult- non-smoker
no children

Came back :

Results

The information below is about subsidized exchange coverage. Note that subsidies are only available for people purchasing coverage on their own in the exchange (not through an employer). Depending on your state's eligibility criteria, you or some members of your family may qualify for Medicaid.

Household income in 2014:
174% of poverty level
Unsubsidized annual health insurance premium in 2014:
$2,535
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the non-tobacco premium, if eligible for a subsidy:
5.11%
Amount you pay for the premium:
$1,021 per year
(which equals 5.11% of your household income and covers 40% of the overall premium)
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:
$1,514
(which covers 60% of the overall premium)
//////

Calculator -I tried to paste the link to the calculator and not working n I gotta go. Go back a page and use the calculator link included in the article you posted.
/////

I am not sure what isn't affordable here. This works out to less than $100 a month. Unless of course Trader Joes was paying the whole shebang -- again like I have said over 5 times in this thread, I don't know!

[sturg33]

I will humor you.

Went back to your article and used the calculator.
Input US Average
$20,000 because I guess that would be max a part time worker gets
1 Adult- non-smoker
no children

Came back :

Results

The information below is about subsidized exchange coverage. Note that subsidies are only available for people purchasing coverage on their own in the exchange (not through an employer). Depending on your state's eligibility criteria, you or some members of your family may qualify for Medicaid.

Household income in 2014:
174% of poverty level
Unsubsidized annual health insurance premium in 2014:
$2,535
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the non-tobacco premium, if eligible for a subsidy:
5.11%
Amount you pay for the premium:
$1,021 per year
(which equals 5.11% of your household income and covers 40% of the overall premium)
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:
$1,514
(which covers 60% of the overall premium)
//////

Calculator -I tried to paste the link to the calculator and not working n I gotta go. Go back a page and use the calculator link included in the article you posted.
/////

I am not sure what isn't affordable here. This works out to less than $100 a month. Unless of course Trader Joes was paying the whole shebang -- again like I have said over 5 times in this thread, I don't know!

Like with many of your posts, I'm very confused... From the article:

Workers who were dropped by their employer’s health insurance are being told to sign-up for Obamacare. However, they are discovering that it is certainly not that easy. Workers are finding a buggy and complicated system where their premiums are outrageous and that they are too wealthy for the tax deductions promised under ACA. Let’s look at Trader Joe’s.

According to Huffington Post, grocer Trader Joe’s, which has long-lauded the fact that it provided health benefits to part-time workers, has now dropped that coverage, telling employees to sign up for insurance using the ACA exchanges.

The Huffington Post reports: “In the memo to staff dated Aug. 30, Trader Joe’s CEO Dan Bane said the company will cut part-timers a check for $500 in January and help guide them toward finding a new plan under the Affordable Care Act. The company will continue to offer health coverage to workers who carry 30 hours or more on average.”

This memo continues, “Depending on income you may earn outside of Trader Joe’s” — i.e., another job – “we believe that with the $500 from Trader Joe’s and the tax credits available under the ACA, many of you should be able to obtain health care coverage at very little if any net cost to you.”

Hard working Americans are discovering that signing up for ACA is not like Geico were it’s “so easy a caveman could do it.”

Since the start of the sign-up period, bewildered Trader Joe’s employees have taken to social media to voice their frustration.

One family paid $180 per month under the Trader Joe’s plan for part-time workers, which covered him and his wife, who worked at the retailer.

As directed, they searched on the exchanges, and to their surprise, they found worse coverage for more money. He writes, “MNSure [the State of Minnesota health insurance exchange] was able to find us 1 plan (had to change the date to 2014 just to get that!). 1 PLAN. The rate? $555.81 with a $6,000 DEDUCTIBLE. MORE than 3X what we were paying for a WORSE PLAN! And no, we are not eligible for any tax deductions, and NO we are not rich. In fact we have budgeted nearly every dollar we make to paying off debt BEFORE this happened!”


The screenshot clearly show his monthly premium is $581 a month to cover he and his wife, and his deductible is $6K. That is for the "silver plan - the second worst option.


So I'm not sure where your calculations came from. It's really not relatable at all.

Here is another snippet

One family in Alabama was shocked to see that their premium will go from $352 a month to $795.54 a month, and their deductible to go up from $500 to $2000. BenSwann.com’s Joshua Cook asked the mother Courtney about her sticker shock. She said, “the BCBS letter (see below) we received says my policy now meets ACA requirements, and my premium included the required ACA tax and fees now. As of December 31 my policy premium is up $444.54 and my deductible has gone up $500 to $2000. This is going to cause my family to be uninsured.”

But rest assured, Obamacare will not negatively affect anyone who already had health insurance- and be certain that is more "affordable"

LOL.

[57Brave]

you show two examples with nothing more than the word of a blog that openly advocaties the repeal of a law that I voted for. Twice
If you run the numbers through the calculator provided by the blogger you get a totally different picture than the blogger portrays. That would require reading the article to the end --- I will wait

Once more -- I am keeping my HC policy meaning personally don't know or care how the exchanges works and actually I've learned more of the nuts and bolts just wondering why your bill is so high. Besides the fact the name Obama is attached to the nickname. Fact is and I acknowledged earlier there are a handful of states that there will be price increases due to the number of insurance companies operating in said state exchanges. Capitalism says, if there is a void- it will be filled and all experts expect those states to come into line with those more populated states.

C'mon Sturg -- run the numbers for yourself --

[CK86]

I think it's hilarious that they can't even get a website to work after three years and unlimited resources. Don't worry though, Obamacare will do everything promised!

[Tapate50]

C'mon Sturg -- run the numbers for yourself --

To be fair, The site rarely works.

[CK86]

5 people have signed up in Iowa and Hawaii combined. How can anyone defend this mess? More proof we need less government rather than more.

Also nice seeing the IRS already disclosing private information with the White House that they're not at liberty to discuss. I'm not worried at all about my health records being in the wrong hands or identity theft at all...

[Tapate50]

Just in this morning... Our area will see rate hikes on 11\1 and 12\1 and 1\1\2014 to get to ACA approved rates. Enjoy America! Remember, you gotta pay this or you get fined!

[cajunrevenge]

The sad thing about all this to me is that the government has plenty of money to provide everyone in this country top notch health care. We just prioritize other ****.

We could save a ton of money ending the war on drugs that has led to 86 percent of inmates in prison on victimless crimes. We pay 50k+ a year to Incarcerate them. They could put 2 armed cops in every school to protect from school shooters with the extra law enforcement resources.

The money spent in Iraq is more than enough topay eeveryone's healthcare. We have aerious problems when we prioritize killing people over providing health care for our own citizens.

There should also be a limit to the amount of kids the government will help you support. 1 kid I can understand but if you can't support them don't have them. We are subsidizing stupidity. Stupid people need to die off so their genes don't infect the rest of the world.

[50PoundHead]

The sad thing about all this to me is that the government has plenty of money to provide everyone in this country top notch health care. We just prioritize other ****.

We could save a ton of money ending the war on drugs that has led to 86 percent of inmates in prison on victimless crimes. We pay 50k+ a year to Incarcerate them. They could put 2 armed cops in every school to protect from school shooters with the extra law enforcement resources.

The money spent in Iraq is more than enough topay eeveryone's healthcare. We have aerious problems when we prioritize killing people over providing health care for our own citizens.

There should also be a limit to the amount of kids the government will help you support. 1 kid I can understand but if you can't support them don't have them. We are subsidizing stupidity. Stupid people need to die off so their genes don't infect the rest of the world.

Good points. Our taxes are low compared to other countries in the developed world. We could still have low taxes and do a lot more in terms of health care if our priorities were a bit different and we took a chunk out of defense.

BUT, cut the defense budget and a lot of pretty decent jobs in the munitions and armaments industry go away. One of the things that I always laugh about is that when the government spends a dollar on a social service program, it's Keynesian economics run amuck. Spend the same dollar in the defense industry and somehow it's not Keynesian economics anymore. It's all about maintaining a strong national defense.

[57Brave]

57 - you're thoughts?

http://benswann.com/exclusive-many-americans-suffering-sticker-shock-is-obamacare-really-affordable/

you got me curious --- I looked at WebMD http://www.webmd.com/health-insurance/mn/mnsure-minnesota-health-insurance-marketplace

and clicked the links you provided. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153310543880571&set=a.345592140570.346714.507505570&type=1&theater

Read the comments below on the Blue Cross link. Seems the issue is not the ACA but it's application in SE Minn. http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_24091425/mnsure-rates-vary-by-region-heres-why-premiums

The writer is being advised to use a Minneapolis zip code and see the rate changes. Perhaps we didn't spend 2-3 years dealing with distractions from birth certificates to Benghazi perhaps these glitches could have been ironed out in public. Perhaps?

Perhaps instead of Trump and birth certificates we could have had Trump and Rate Regions. Whatcha think?

[Tapate50]

So multitasking isn't a strength ?

[57Brave]

Obviously not :)

[CK86]

So it's the Republicans and tea party that is responsible for the $634 million mess that is the affordable care act's website? Those birthers are like Bush, it's always their fault.

[Tapate50]

Hm. Interesting take there 57.

[Tapate50]

By the way, local agent said that today after he put in someone's personal info on exchange, it came up asking if he had in fact taken out a 2nd mortgage back in 1995. So................. So much for that not using personal information. So that's medical and personal finance in the equation so far.

[yeezus]

There should also be a limit to the amount of kids the government will help you support. 1 kid I can understand but if you can't support them don't have them. We are subsidizing stupidity. Stupid people need to die off so their genes don't infect the rest of the world.

The scary thing is, the stupid people are the ones who reproduce more. The smart people wait until they can afford it (excluding accidents, which smart people have less of) and are reasonable. The dumb people have kid after kid while working at target.

[thethe]

The scary thing is, the stupid people are the ones who reproduce more. The smart people wait until they can afford it (excluding accidents, which smart people have less of) and are reasonable. The dumb people have kid after kid while working at target.

The whole premise to idiocracy. There is no personal accountability anymore. Poor people can continue to make awful decisions because they know then rest of us are forced to support them. Dems don't care because the more of these kinds of people that are around the more likely they stay in power. We are screwed.

[Tapate50]

Just in this morning... Our area will see rate hikes on 11\1 and 12\1 and 1\1\2014 to get to ACA approved rates. Enjoy America! Remember, you gotta pay this or you get fined!

Ahem.

[weso1]

Ahem.

Not fined... taxed. How could anyone ever think it's a fine?

[CK86]

Lol at the GOP. Surrender while getting nothing really in return. But Paul Ryan will fix the budget in 50 years! That's going to be the "grand bargain". Hilarious.

The GOP has no one with a backbone in a position of power. Speaker John whiteflag Boehner is nothing more than Obama's bitch.

[50PoundHead]

CK, Boehner won the first few rounds of his fights with Obama, including the fiscal cliff negotiations. I think the Republicans just picked the wrong fight here. If they concentrate solely on long-term budget reform instead of the ACA, they probably do a whole lot better.

[CK86]

They won't fix anything though. These budget reforms will get us to a surplus in 50 years, plenty of time for those idiots to screw it up. They didn't even get a one year delay on the individual mandate DESPITE having plenty of leverage with a craptastic website, exemptions for the President and Congress friends and having the shutdown with the debt ceiling coming up in a week. It's a massive surrender.

[Tapate50]

57 got pretty quiet. Apparently when he isn't quoting government propaganda pre rollout, he doesn't have much to say.

[57Brave]

Here -- what was the final vote tally anyway? 40 -41? Throw in a Presidential election and a Supreme Court decision and voila -- we are getting somewhere.
Here's to hoping we get a real Congress and get to finish the job of universal health care for all
Even poor people

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/10/14/20961854-aca-repeal-crusade-over-delusional-folks-notwithstanding?lite

edit:
oh, it was 46

[57Brave]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/14/obamacare-states_n_4086910.html

[Tapate50]

Here -- what was the final vote tally anyway? 40 -41? Throw in a Presidential election and a Supreme Court decision and voila -- we are getting somewhere.
Here's to hoping we get a real Congress and get to finish the job of universal health care for all
Even poor people

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/10/14/20961854-aca-repeal-crusade-over-delusional-folks-notwithstanding?lite

edit:
oh, it was 46

What about the tripling of rates? What about people getting pushed to the limits of their budgets as we try and pull ourselves up from a crippling recession? Poor people get health care anytime they need it. Walk through the door of your local hospital without coverage and see.

This has been a disaster to date. The hard thing will be admitting it fitty. Local carrier jacking up rates every month from here on out til the ACA effective date to protect themselves from it. Tell me how thats a good thing, because its a non-negotiable expense for them right now.

[57Brave]

You should really get out more or wash your jersey. Or something

[sturg33]

57 continues to get owned. I'm surprised you support this bill 57. It absolutely crushes poor people and middle class.

[Tapate50]

You should really get out more or wash your jersey. Or something Quality retort.

You don't have to have a jersey to deal out hard facts. There really isn't anything for you to say or post other than " Yeah, its pretty F'd, and so is most of the American public for the foreseeable future. Sorry I voted for this twice guys, my bad. But but but huff post says it its the republicans fault...oh and you guys should get out more"

The blind homer in you wouldn't allow that though. I guess it was too much to ask to directly respond to some of the things coming out on ACA that I posted, but I guess Huff post hasn't written it yet.

[weso1]

57 continues to get owned. I'm surprised you support this bill 57. It absolutely crushes poor people and middle class.

Gotta support the team.

http://www.dahl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/puddydevils.jpeg

[sturg33]

Reading some of the stories online from San Francisco... People are pissed. Obama supported too.

Some of the numbers being reports are crazy high

[CK86]

When Ezra Klein says Obamacare has been a failure, you know it's been awful.

[sturg33]

An explanation on why the site keeps crashing

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/?partner=yahootix

[Tapate50]

An explanation on why the site keeps crashing

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/?partner=yahootix

Everyone knows Donald Trump is the reason.

[thethe]

This administration has been an absolute disaster. Glad we got this stuffed down the throats of Americans. Just keep screwing the middle class.

[CK86]

Obamacare is so great that the unions don't even want it. Supposedly in this 15% government vacation deal, they get a delay on the greatness that is Obamacare. So nice of Obama and the Dems to take care of their friends but say screw the American people.

[Tapate50]

This administration has been an absolute disaster. Glad we got this stuffed down the throats of Americans. Just keep screwing the middle class.

It is certainly not ending pretty in his second term.

[thethe]

It is certainly not ending pretty in his second term.

For them its exactly what they wanted. They have created more citizens that will vote for them. Just an absolute disaster for the future of this country.

[The Chosen One]

Obamacare is so great that the unions don't even want it. Supposedly in this 15% government vacation deal, they get a delay on the greatness that is Obamacare. So nice of Obama and the Dems to take care of their friends but say screw the American people.

It's been Boehner's office and caucus pushing for this actually.

Wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the reasons for stalled negotiations.

[Tapate50]

It's been Boehner's office and caucus pushing for this actually.

Wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the reasons for stalled negotiations.

If so, I figured to have read it somewhere. Maybe i've missed it?

[The Chosen One]

If so, I figured to have read it somewhere. Maybe i've missed it?

Glenn Beck and Breitbart's website ripped Boehner.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/john-boehner-hill-obamacare-subsidies-97634.html

[Tapate50]

Glenn Beck and Breitbart's website ripped Boehner.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/john-boehner-hill-obamacare-subsidies-97634.html

Ah. Secret documents. I see it now. Why on Earth either party thought Hill subsidies was a good idea at all is beyond me, but at least one side woke the hell up.

Plus, Glenn Beck is an idiot.

[sturg33]

57 - what are your thoughts on the first few weeks of ACA... First impressions? Looking good? Needs some work? All the stories about huge premiums just BS?

I'm genuinely curious of your thoughts on this one. Try not to link me to HuffPo

[Tapate50]

I tried. He will not directly answer the questions.

[57Brave]

My solid impressions on how it is going will not come until there is data to see rather than random reports.

Looking good? - yes there are many things that have come from the ACA that will be here 100 years from now

Needs some work? - certainly

Premiums? no I dont think they are all BS. I learned last week it varies drastically from state to state. Also learned that as time goes on it is expected to even out
///////////////

sturg last night i was wondering -- remember the impressive 19-20 Libertarian we saw last year around election time from a TV show? Do you know if he has run for office? Massachussits -- right? Have you followed his progress?

[57Brave]

Had they shopped on the exchange yet, I asked? No, Tina said, nor would they. They oppose Obamacare and want nothing to do with it. Fair enough, but they should know that I found a plan for them for, at most, $3,700 a year, a 63 percent less than their current bill. It might cover things that they don’t need, but so does every insurance policy.
/////////////////////////////////////////////

Wow, these stories are uber similar to the stories posted here and the constant loop of talk radio. Once again, scratch the surface and one sees a different picture
Here more boring data / events or what used to be called news---
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sea n_hannity_on_obamacare/

[Tapate50]

Rates here will be the same inside the exchange as outside it. Your argument is invalid

[57Brave]

where is here?

who's arguing?

[sturg33]

This is from the heritage foundation, so it should be vetted... But it seems to line up with some objective research I've been reading

But, it's pretty ugly.

Looks like Colorado and RI come out of it very well. Everyone else... yikes

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/10/enrollment-in-obamacare-exchanges-how-will-your-health-insurance-fare

[Tapate50]

Rural ga. Pointing out that your opinion or "anecdote" isn't as true as you would have us believe .

[sturg33]

The Obama Administration is counting on as many as 7 million Americans, including 2.7 million young people, to enroll in health insurance coverage on the state and federal ObamaCare exchanges. Based on early numbers, however, it appears that they’ll fall far short of that number, which could put the heart of the law is very real jeopardy.

Millward Brown Digital (formerly known as Compete), a company that tracks web traffic, broke down the numbers from the first week the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges were online. Based on the traffic and reports of successful enrollees, they note that just 1% of people who visited the exchange websites actually enrolled.

“Over the course of Obamacare’s first week, 9.5 million people visited healthcare.gov, the federal government’s official healthcare website and the de facto exchange for residents of two thirds of the states,” wrote Matt Pace at the company’s blog. “In addition, the 16 operational state-run exchanges combined to attract over 3.1 million visitors during the same period.”

“In total, 11.3 million consumers visited the federal and state exchanges during their first week of operation,” he explained. “Unfortunately, what started as a fire hose of interest, resulted in only a small trickle of actual healthcare enrollments.”

Pace noted that 27% of those who visited the site, some 214,000 people, were able to register an account, but the actual enrollment numbers are, well, pathetic.

“In the end, just 36,000 consumers, or 1% of all those who attempted to register for the federal exchange, successfully enrolled in Obamacare,” wrote Pace, noting that website wasn’t ready for the heavy traffic that the site receive, which he equated to the “daily traffic on Target.com.”

Poor coding and design as well as a decision to put income verification at the start of the enrollment process, thus allowing potential enrollees to see subsidy eligibility so they wouldn’t be scared off by rate shock, were other reasons the federal ObamaCare exchange website experienced problems.

Here’s a chart provided by Millward Brown Digital which shows the madness:



Jim Geraghty explained yesterday that the bleak enrollment numbers means that ObamaCare is on pace to get 828,000 enrollments by the time the open enrollment period ends on March 31, 2014. The Obama Administration anticipated 494,620 enrollments by the end of October, the first month the exchanges were open. Let that sink in for a moment.

“According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, ‘Over 47 million nonelderly Americans were uninsured in 2012,’” noted Geraghty. “So the exchanges are on pace to get 1.7 percent of the uninsured with completed enrollment for insurance.”

But the 828,000 enrollments, per Geraghty’s math, are key to the argument of ObamaCare is an unworkable law. That number is 6.12 million short of the enrollments needed to make ObamaCare “work,” depending on your definition of that word in relation to the law.

If the numbers don’t increase at a substantial pace, it could lead to what some insurance experts call a “death spiral,” insurance rates would necessarily skyrocket for those who have coverage on the individual health insurance market, which is something The Economist recently noted.

“Obamacare’s main goal is to expand access to cheap insurance. It offers subsidies to those who cannot afford it and bars insurers from charging people more because they are sick,” the magazine explained. “The sick who lack insurance will probably keep trying to enroll. The young and healthy may give up more quickly, if it is too difficult.”

“And if they do, the insurance firms that offer policies via the exchanges will find that their pool of customers is disproportionately sick and costly to cover,” the magazine continued. “This may spur them to raise prices for everyone, making the young and healthy even less likely to enroll, despite the small fines they would have to pay if they lack insurance.”

“A death spiral could follow,” they added.

Counting on the individual mandate to get people to sign-up for health insurance coverage may not be enough to sway the uninsured or those who’ve been shifted to the exchanges. Remember, many Americans aren’t going to be eligible for subsidies because they make too much money and some will be discouraged from paying for a policy that is substantially more expensive than pre-ObamaCare rates, whether the decision is personal finance or buying something they don’t think they need.

It’s too early to say with any certainty that this will happen. Enrollments could pick-up the pace and the Obama Administration could reach their goals. But the early numbers indicate that ObamaCare is going to implode.

[57Brave]

Rates here will be the same inside the exchange as outside it. Your argument is invalid

If the rates are the same - then what is the problem? The exchanges are set up for those without access to coverage / or available coverage is really expensive because they are not being included in a group plan ( as in a group policy provided by one's employer) . Being the same to me means if you have coverage you would keep it (like me and mine) and those just entering the system are getting a square(er) shake (little Raymond Chandler jargon :)

[57Brave]

The Obama Administration is counting on as many as 7 million Americans, including 2.7 million young people, to enroll in health insurance coverage on the state and federal ObamaCare exchanges. Based on early numbers, however, it appears that they’ll fall far short of that number, which could put the heart of the law is very real jeopardy.

Millward Brown Digital (formerly known as Compete), a company that tracks web traffic, broke down the numbers from the first week the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges were online. Based on the traffic and reports of successful enrollees, they note that just 1% of people who visited the exchange websites actually enrolled.

“Over the course of Obamacare’s first week, 9.5 million people visited healthcare.gov, the federal government’s official healthcare website and the de facto exchange for residents of two thirds of the states,” wrote Matt Pace at the company’s blog. “In addition, the 16 operational state-run exchanges combined to attract over 3.1 million visitors during the same period.”

“In total, 11.3 million consumers visited the federal and state exchanges during their first week of operation,” he explained. “Unfortunately, what started as a fire hose of interest, resulted in only a small trickle of actual healthcare enrollments.”

Pace noted that 27% of those who visited the site, some 214,000 people, were able to register an account, but the actual enrollment numbers are, well, pathetic.

“In the end, just 36,000 consumers, or 1% of all those who attempted to register for the federal exchange, successfully enrolled in Obamacare,” wrote Pace, noting that website wasn’t ready for the heavy traffic that the site receive, which he equated to the “daily traffic on Target.com.”

Poor coding and design as well as a decision to put income verification at the start of the enrollment process, thus allowing potential enrollees to see subsidy eligibility so they wouldn’t be scared off by rate shock, were other reasons the federal ObamaCare exchange website experienced problems.

Here’s a chart provided by Millward Brown Digital which shows the madness:



Jim Geraghty explained yesterday that the bleak enrollment numbers means that ObamaCare is on pace to get 828,000 enrollments by the time the open enrollment period ends on March 31, 2014. The Obama Administration anticipated 494,620 enrollments by the end of October, the first month the exchanges were open. Let that sink in for a moment.

“According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, ‘Over 47 million nonelderly Americans were uninsured in 2012,’” noted Geraghty. “So the exchanges are on pace to get 1.7 percent of the uninsured with completed enrollment for insurance.”

But the 828,000 enrollments, per Geraghty’s math, are key to the argument of ObamaCare is an unworkable law. That number is 6.12 million short of the enrollments needed to make ObamaCare “work,” depending on your definition of that word in relation to the law.

If the numbers don’t increase at a substantial pace, it could lead to what some insurance experts call a “death spiral,” insurance rates would necessarily skyrocket for those who have coverage on the individual health insurance market, which is something The Economist recently noted.

“Obamacare’s main goal is to expand access to cheap insurance. It offers subsidies to those who cannot afford it and bars insurers from charging people more because they are sick,” the magazine explained. “The sick who lack insurance will probably keep trying to enroll. The young and healthy may give up more quickly, if it is too difficult.”

“And if they do, the insurance firms that offer policies via the exchanges will find that their pool of customers is disproportionately sick and costly to cover,” the magazine continued. “This may spur them to raise prices for everyone, making the young and healthy even less likely to enroll, despite the small fines they would have to pay if they lack insurance.”

“A death spiral could follow,” they added.

Counting on the individual mandate to get people to sign-up for health insurance coverage may not be enough to sway the uninsured or those who’ve been shifted to the exchanges. Remember, many Americans aren’t going to be eligible for subsidies because they make too much money and some will be discouraged from paying for a policy that is substantially more expensive than pre-ObamaCare rates, whether the decision is personal finance or buying something they don’t think they need.

It’s too early to say with any certainty that this will happen. Enrollments could pick-up the pace and the Obama Administration could reach their goals. But the early numbers indicate that ObamaCare is going to implode.


Reading says this was the case with SS and Medicare. When Google started GMail it was by invitation only so they could manage the onslaught . If the biggest problem with this law is IT -- I see the prediction of implosion as valid as Romneys victory and "we will be greeted as liberators" . Funny too, these are the same predictors.

[Tapate50]

If the rates are the same - then what is the problem? The exchanges are set up for those without access to coverage / or available coverage is really expensive because they are not being included in a group plan ( as in a group policy provided by one's employer) . Being the same to me means if you have coverage you would keep it (like me and mine) and those just entering the system are getting a square(er) shake (little Raymond Chandler jargon :)

Holy crap, you simply aren't paying attention. This will go nowhere if you continue to deflect and not read what's posted.

Rates will increase once in each of three months leading up to ACA roll out. Basically the carrier sees this as a huge liability to take on new clients with no history (even though the exchanges have requested med/financial info at random instances in our early trials). How is that beneficial? This whole "exchange" is not necessary . They could have shopped with an agent at any time and gotten more expertise and guidance than a website. The carrier deemed it necessary to mitigate losses that a private policy rate needed to be as high as the exchange policy, hitting everyone in the gut. BIL posted his Aca letter from his carrier and rate went from 185 mo to 485 mo. Not quite triple, but he isn't in our area so I don't know what his carrier landscape looks like. Doesn't sound that promising though.

[jpx7]

I haven't really weighed in on the ACA here, but I think now is an appropriate time to paraphrase (care of Futurama) candidate Jack Johnson responding to candidate John Jackson: I say [the ACA] doesn't go too far enough.

[57Brave]

Holy crap, you simply aren't paying attention. This will go nowhere if you continue to deflect and not read what's posted.

Rates will increase once in each of three months leading up to ACA roll out. Basically the carrier sees this as a huge liability to take on new clients with no history (even though the exchanges have requested med/financial info at random instances in our early trials). How is that beneficial? This whole "exchange" is not necessary . They could have shopped with an agent at any time and gotten more expertise and guidance than a website. The carrier deemed it necessary to mitigate losses that a private policy rate needed to be as high as the exchange policy, hitting everyone in the gut. BIL posted his Aca letter from his carrier and rate went from 185 mo to 485 mo. Not quite triple, but he isn't in our area so I don't know what his carrier landscape looks like. Doesn't sound that promising though.

The exchange is the group policy for people that otherwise did not have access to a group policy.
Not the end all and / or be all. If you know the answers ---- why do you ask the questions?

I agree with jpx -- my ideal group policy is free universal care for all. No strings attached And yeah tape=sturg etc YOU would have to pay for a poor woman's mammogram

[sturg33]

The exchange is the group policy for people that otherwise did not have access to a group policy.
Not the end all and / or be all. If you know the answers ---- why do you ask the questions?

I agree with jpx -- my ideal group policy is free universal care for all. No strings attached And yeah tape=sturg etc YOU would have to pay for a poor woman's mammogram

"free?"

How would that work???

[Tapate50]

The exchange is the group policy for people that otherwise did not have access to a group policy.
Not the end all and / or be all. If you know the answers ---- why do you ask the questions?

I agree with jpx -- my ideal group policy is free universal care for all. No strings attached And yeah tape=sturg etc YOU would have to pay for a poor woman's mammogram

Education . The same reason you post.

[57Brave]

"free?"

How would that work???

yeah, I guess free isn't the word.
How's about "walk up" or "on demand" or "at will"
?

[AerchAngel]

health care cost for free?

Oh my someone has gone off the deep end. I wonder what doctor is going to take a severe pay cut for their services.

[Tapate50]

More people in the system and it's gonna be "on demand" or "walk up" or "at will" ? I have to wait 3 months for a dermo appt now.

Put down the doob.

[jpx7]

Pertinent (http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-improved-obamacare-program-released-on-35-flop,34294/).

[57Brave]

I have to wait 3 months for a dermo appt now.


3 months for a Dermotologist appointment. Either you live in Ubeki-bekistan or denial.

If it takes you 3 months to get a Dermo appt there is something else in play - how many Dermo's per how many people. ??? How far off the grid do you live? Some specialists won't deal with HMO's -- like my Chiropractor
Who's to say ACA won't make it better? Shoot WWIII might make that better

[sturg33]

3 months for a Dermotologist appointment. Either you live in Ubeki-bekistan or denial.

If it takes you 3 months to get a Dermo appt there is something else in play - how many Dermo's per how many people. ??? How far off the grid do you live? Some specialists won't deal with HMO's -- like my Chiropractor
Who's to say ACA won't make it better? Shoot WWIII might make that better

My girlfriend lives in Philly and she cant get a dermo appointment until February

[Tapate50]

My girlfriend lives in Philly and she cant get a dermo appointment until February
How is the weather in Uzbekistan ?

[sturg33]

How is the weather in Uzbekistan ?

It's rough man... It's really tough getting the Obamacare site to work... Must be crappy internet

[thethe]

Really hope this atrocity is repealed.

[weso1]

How is the weather in Uzbekistan ?

Can't you just look out your window?

[57Brave]

My girlfriend lives in Philly and she cant get a dermo appointment until February

1) Because of ACA?

2) Here is a list of over 200 Dermotologists in the Delaware Valley
http://www.angieslist.com/companylist/philadelphia/dermatologists.htm

Feeling pretty certain she can find someone to treat or maintain her derms

3) And this is Obamas fault? Really?

[57Brave]

It's rough man... It's really tough getting the Obamacare site to work... Must be crappy internet

Last I heard you wanted nothing to do with it!
Or had a better plan or your boss was going to lay you off because his costs were going out the roof. Or ...

[57Brave]

Really hope this atrocity is repealed.

Where do you live thethe? At the end of the shutdown it was made crystal clear there would be no repeal. Actually the 2012 election pretty much told you there was to be no repeal. The Supreme Court said there will be no repeal . 46 votes in the Congress should have told you (everybody say it together) there would be no repeal

Thank your lucky stars Sav hasn't imposed a literacy test. Because obviously your reading comprehension is not working for ya

[Tapate50]

1) Because of ACA?

2) Here is a list of over 200 Dermotologists in the Delaware Valley
http://www.angieslist.com/companylist/philadelphia/dermatologists.htm

Feeling pretty certain she can find someone to treat or maintain her derms

3) And this is Obamas fault? Really?
What's sad is you couldn't even see we were playing with your "on demand" healthcare idea. Wow.

[Tapate50]

Where do you live thethe? At the end of the shutdown it was made crystal clear there would be no repeal. Actually the 2012 election pretty much told you there was to be no repeal. The Supreme Court said there will be no repeal . 46 votes in the Congress should have told you (everybody say it together) there would be no repeal

Thank your lucky stars Sav hasn't imposed a literacy test. Because obviously your reading comprehension is not working for ya

Last I checked accountants had to be literate. You can't even follow your own line of thought so that disqualifies you from throwing stones.

[KB21]

health care cost for free?

Oh my someone has gone off the deep end. I wonder what doctor is going to take a severe pay cut for their services.

Not me.

I'll go to a cash only concierge practice before I accept the expensive care act.

[weso1]

So Obama admin is thinking of delaying the mandate after all? The republican demand of delaying the mandate was such an unreasonable negotiation starting point though.

[The Chosen One]

So Obama admin is thinking of delaying the mandate after all? The republican demand of delaying the mandate was such an unreasonable negotiation starting point though.

They'd look stupid not to delay now because of the website glitches.

The Republicans delaying it just so they could have more time to try and get it repealed is not the same intention.

[Tapate50]

They'd look stupid not to delay now because of the website glitches.

The Republicans delaying it just so they could have more time to try and get it repealed is not the same intention.

Don't confuse TP with pubs. Pubs just wanted to delay the fines just as Obama did with businesses. So unreasonable.

[weso1]

They'd look stupid not to delay now because of the website glitches.

The Republicans delaying it just so they could have more time to try and get it repealed is not the same intention.

Obama could have negotiated a delay with a new starting date. Not like he had to give in to an open ended delay. Truth is that he wanted the government shutdown just as much as Cruz did. He used it for a political advantage just like the republicans some of you complained about.

The republican negotiation starting point was incredibly far from unreasonable despite the crying and gnashing of teeth from the anti republican folks.

[The Chosen One]

Their starting point went from:

Repeal it entirely (the last 2 years now).
to
Repeal the individual mandate.
to
Delay it a year.
to
Exempt Medical Tax.
to
Ok just want income verification.

[weso1]

Yes, that's how negotiation works. Too bad the dems wouldn't even negotiate. We could have had a year delay and Obama wouldn't look like an idiot. Sometimes you cut off your nose to spite your face. Now I'm going to come up with some Dad jokes whilest awaiting a reply.

[Tapate50]

Their starting point went from:

Repeal it entirely (the last 2 years now).
to
Repeal the individual mandate.
to
Delay it a year.
to
Exempt Medical Tax.
to
Ok just want income verification.

I guess that means the Dems weren't willing to negotiate even though it was in their best interest . I couldn't have spelled it out any better KL! What the pubs wanted was not crazy or unreasonable and anyone that was paying attention knows that . It does mean that there's a ton of blind homerism going on though.

[The Chosen One]

The last 3 (medical device tax, mandate, income verification) were all save face last straw attempts that all happened in final 2 weeks. I mean you had Ted Cruz on the floor of the Senate for 21 hours pleading for a full repeal just 2 days before the shutdown.

The income verification was a bone just to say they got SOMETHING out of it.

And props to the Dems for not negotiating on something because the Pubs wanted to hold the country hostage. It was an unprecedented measure taken by the Republican Party, not done in history to hold the country hostage over something that was already passed into law and upheld by SCOTUS.

Several dems in the House AND Senate have been trying to form the conference committees to negotiate since last year and most since February LONG before the shutdown occurred. Boehner and Cantor blocked all of these proposals, and they finally decided at the 12th hour to propose conference committees.

YOu guys keep making it seem like the GOP have been negotiating in good faith the entire time. Simply not the case. They've been too busy trying to repeal Obamacare 56 times since they took control of the House.

And Obama for the most part is owning up to the computer glitches, don't see him blaming Bush or the Republicans. If he takes political hit for it, well he already knew the risk and Republicans should capitalize all over it. The problem is the GOP the last month was more interested in political theater than anything. Boehner had absolutely no control over his caucus at all.

[Tapate50]

So you are FOR citizens being penalized when big business gets a delay? You didn't want income verification? (Which is a huge loophole that got closed IMO). You are also making the lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party. It isn't the truth.

[Julio3000]

If the R's had been negotiating in good faith, and these were just common-sense things that needed to get done, they could have been done outside of the debt ceiling/budget process. They still could be.

Come on. Tapate, Weso, I know you are smart, reasonable guys. If those things need to get done, they can get done at a future date when there is a consensus about their necessity. "Negotiating" over the budget/debt ceiling was a bad political move that backfired, let's not pretend otherwise.

You are also making the lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party. It isn't the truth.

It's lazy to conflate the two or treat them as interchangeable, and I admit that I've done that at times. It's not at all inaccurate to suggest that the TP is part—a significant and influential part—of the party.

[57Brave]

2009-10 (R) welcomed in the TeaParty with open arms. Until of course they proved to lose them votes rather than gain them votes. Kind of the Sarah Palin / Rush Limbaugh affect. We love you as long as you bring us votes. But the second you personally become toxic - well, he/she/they were "never really part of the establishment." Funny thing is they distance themselves from the person but not the policy. (R) still defends Palins right to use targets on Gabby Giffords , (R) still defends Limbaughs characterizations of Sandra Fluke and they will still hot button TP memes

Let's take the TP out of the 2010 equation. Then tell me it is a "lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party"
Can you say Speaker Pelosi?

Look at the gains made in state races simply because of TP involvement. Without TP and (R) holing hands (R) doesn't get the assured reapportioned congressional districts. Assured for a decade!

Yeah, (R) and the TP are one and the same. I actually have more respect for the TP than (R). At least they have the stones to be up front about where they stand.
Say what you want about the tenets of the Tea Party, Dude- at least it's an ethos.

An unintended metaphor for the 2013 travails of the Obama Administration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEMiz6rcxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_29yvYpf4w

[Tapate50]

If the R's had been negotiating in good faith, and these were just common-sense things that needed to get done, they could have been done outside of the debt ceiling/budget process. They still could be.

Come on. Tapate, Weso, I know you are smart, reasonable guys. If those things need to get done, they can get done at a future date when there is a consensus about their necessity. "Negotiating" over the budget/debt ceiling was a bad political move that backfired, let's not pretend otherwise.

You are also making the lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party. It isn't the truth.

It's lazy to conflate the two or treat them as interchangeable, and I admit that I've done that at times. It's not at all inaccurate to suggest that the TP is part—a significant and influential part—of the party.

On the last part I agree. I used the wrong terminology. But I'd wager that if you and Boehner were in a room and it was lock tite that nothing said in that room would ever see the light of day, he would tell you not to lump them in with those Martians.

I don't trust the government to implement common sense things on the fly. There is so much abuse running rampant, this was ripe for it and it was a no brainer that DEMs refused to budge on for the time being.

[Tapate50]

2009-10 (R) welcomed in the TeaParty with open arms. Until of course they proved to lose them votes rather than gain them votes. Kind of the Sarah Palin / Rush Limbaugh affect. We love you as long as you bring us votes. But the second you personally become toxic - well, he/she/they were "never really part of the establishment." Funny thing is they distance themselves from the person but not the policy. (R) still defends Palins right to use targets on Gabby Giffords , (R) still defends Limbaughs characterizations of Sandra Fluke and they will still hot button TP memes

Let's take the TP out of the 2010 equation. Then tell me it is a "lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party"
Can you say Speaker Pelosi?

Look at the gains made in state races simply because of TP involvement. Without TP and (R) holing hands (R) doesn't get the assured reapportioned congressional districts. Assured for a decade!

Yeah, (R) and the TP are one and the same. I actually have more respect for the TP than (R). At least they have the stones to be up front about where they stand.
Say what you want about the tenets of the Tea Party, Dude- at least it's an ethos.

An unintended metaphor for the history of the Obama Administration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEMiz6rcxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_29yvYpf4w

Went from Huffpost :pound: to BL :snort: . Wow.

[57Brave]

"you dont have the ****in girl dip****"

"without a hostage there is no ransom"

"you bunch a ****in crybabies"

" no Donnie these men are cowards"

"show me what you got nihlist"

/////////////////////////////////////////////

you found a dermatologist appt yet?

[sturg33]

I love hearing that the "country was held hostage"

LOL. Yes, the 14% of government employees that were on paid vacation for 2 weeks pus us in great danger! Yet, 5 years ago, or 4 years ago, or 3 years ago, or 2 years ago! those 14% of folks weren't even needed. Now they are essential in keeping the country from being held hostage.

If anyone ever thought the country was going to default they are morons. That's why our country continued to run without issue. Obama was PLEADING for pain during the shutdown, but there simply wasn't any. Too bad for him. Maybe one day the public will realize we don't need all this government/spending/debt to survive.

Nah

[sturg33]

Mr. President,

I was born at Centennial Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee. My mother would later take a job delivering babies in that same operating room only a couple years later. My parents got a divorce when I was young. There were many times during the summer when she would be forced to take my sister and I to work with her. I vividly remember the child version of myself walking the halls of the same floor I was born on in fascination as the years passed. The anesthesiologists use to bring us candy and watch movies with us. When the holidays came, a nurse by the name of Patty Vaughn (we called her Granny), would have bags of presents for my sister and I. Donna Smith, a surgical first assistant who came to America from Canada to work in a free-market healthcare system, use to babysit us.

I'm Hanging Up The White Coat Because Of Obamacare To Pursue My Doctorate In Economics And Head To Wall Street
I’m Hanging Up The White Coat Because Of Obamacare To Pursue My Doctorate In Economics And Head To Wall Street/ Continue My Work In Politics
Donna’s two-story town-home became a 3rd home (2nd was the hospital). We spent countless nights at her house.

Patty passed away when I was ten. I still remember the last box of moon pies she gave me for Halloween that year. To this day every time I see a moon pie I think of her. Donna helped me through my undergrad at Belmont University. With tuition at $30k/year money was tight. Donna never let me go without a meal.

You see Mr. President, the smell of sterile operating rooms, horrible coffee, crisp white coats, and cold metal was my destiny. The first time someone ever asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up I responded, “Anesthesiologist”. I had no idea what they even did, but it was the first big word I learned to pronounce as a 6-year-old. The hospital is my family. It’s all I’ve ever known.

Twenty-one years after my birth, in the same hospital, I listened to a fetal heart beat through my very own stethoscope. You know, it’s quite magical. As the cool, metallic bell lies upon the tight skin of a young mother’s stomach anxiety, fear and joy are all present in her face. A week before my birthday I stood at the side of the laboring mother. There’s no other way to explain childbirth than witnessing the face of God. The emotion is enveloping. You can only try (unsuccessfully) to hold the tears back. I knew at that moment what a gift God had given me. To be allowed the involvement of such a beautiful, pure moment was not to be unappreciated.

When I started college I knew where I was going. You had just won the election. I remember the cameras focusing in on Oprah Winfrey’s face. Tears streamed down. At the time, I knew nothing about politics. My biggest concern was a girl in my Anatomy & Physiology class I had a crush on. I paid little attention to Washington DC.

I worked hard. Multiple all-nighters, falling asleep behind the wheel of my car countless times, thousands of shots of espresso (I actually took a job at Starbucks to support the habit) and 15k note-cards later I had graduated in the top 5% of the country. However, during those last few years something changed.

We studied medical legislation for an entire semester. It’s no secret that the federal government has over-burdened the healthcare market, which has manifested astronomical costs to consumers. However, in 2010, democrats forced through the partisan Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), which was later funded by both democrats and republicans.


Since the passage of Obamacare everything has changed. When I started college I never intended to work for the government. I never thought I’d have a government bureaucrat dictate what I was worth to the market, and I certainly never imagined those same bureaucrats (who have absolutely no medical training) telling me how to treat my patients.

I remember the day Obamacare became law. I was sitting in the hospital working in the anesthesia department part-time to cover the costs of tuition. Dr. Alfery, a mentor of mine, looked over at me and said, “Run– It’s not too late to change majors.”

Your legislation has caused countless doctors to go into retirement early, opt for cash-only practices, and has discouraged bright, young minds from entering the field.

With student loans reaching $300k, incalculable opportunity costs and 8 years lost to school, students seeking medical degrees give their lives to the practice. Starting our careers at 30 while dictating to us how much money we can make is nothing short of destroying all incentive to enter the field.

Since that day I’ve yet to find a doctor who recommends the field. People respond to my complaints, “It’s still going to be a good job”. I don’t want a “good job”. I have not fought for a government entitlement of a “good job”. I want an incredible career. That’s what I have fought tirelessly for.

I have been on a path to enter the Air Force and continue my education in medicine. I have been dreaming of specializing in pediatric neurosurgery for half a decade.

After quite literally losing my hair from the internal conflict, considering the sunk costs and evaluating different avenues I have decided.

I have decided that I believe in the principles of a truly free-market, and I trust the free-market. Because of this deep, internal value system I cannot, with clear conscience, continue on this path. My life has value. Such value cannot be calculated by Washington bureaucrats. I won’t allow it. Only a true free-market can accurately assess the value I am capable of.

Mr President, I’m leaving the medical field. I’m hanging up the white coat. However, let me be clear. You have not won. Unless something “changes”, you’ve lost and will continue to lose. You will fail because you lack principle. Meanwhile, we will succeed because we are born of principle.

Regards,

Michael Gordon Lotfi

[The Chosen One]

Awesome letter.

Teachers go into the field to teach knowing it's pretty much a no-win situation and not very much awesome pay.

Doctors go into the field wanting to help people while making 6 figures, that's not going to change.

If he wants to go to wall street, good for him.

Obama didn't create the Wall Street monster. For years Wall Street has picked off some of the brightest minds from the highest institutions to get them to make money on the stock market instead of being productive in other sectors of the economy we could use them most. This guy is not a pioneer by any stretch of the imagination and this has been happening long ago.

This guy trusts the free market, that forces students to have $300k in student debt, that makes health insurance so expensive that the average person cannot afford it and a system where the insurance company rips off the customer. So instead he's going to bring his brilliance to wall street to screw over the average person even more.

It's ironic that the beginning of the story the guy does nothing but chalk up nostalgia to people that took care of him growing up.

That guy is an attention whore. If his motive was to help the sick, he'd still be a doctor for all the right reasons. It's not like doctors are going to be making less than a McDonald's manager or a police man. Doctors will still be pretty wealthy after this.

Teachers have more regulations and restrictions placed on them since they're actual government employees, but if you ask almost every single one of them why they do it, they'll tell you because they want to make a difference in kids' lives.

[The Chosen One]

All this doom and gloom that because of Obamacare, kids won't go into the medical field anymore is just silly. Doctor's will still have wealthy incomes after Obamacare. There will be more physicians assistants. The market will correct itself and adapt to whatever changes happen.

I'm still laughing at that letter. It's supposed to tell a story of a young boy whose dream it was, was to help people, because he was "born" to do it. Talks all about how much he was in love with becoming a doctor and being a caretaker like Patty. One law all of the sudden changes his passion and makes him go on a career change despite the fact it will still be a wealthy profession. This isn't going to prevent doctors from being able to afford a 200k house or a nice Mercedes or Jaguar. He tries to write his letter so poetic and eloquently, when really he's just showing you just has narcissistic he is. He's quitting his passion for helping all in the name of the "free market" he believes in, that at the end of the day is screwing the same people he claims to want to be helping. Good stuff Michael Gordon Lofti. You're just as much of a narcissist as Ted Cruz.

[weso1]

If the R's had been negotiating in good faith, and these were just common-sense things that needed to get done, they could have been done outside of the debt ceiling/budget process. They still could be.

Come on. Tapate, Weso, I know you are smart, reasonable guys. If those things need to get done, they can get done at a future date when there is a consensus about their necessity. "Negotiating" over the budget/debt ceiling was a bad political move that backfired, let's not pretend otherwise.



Oh don't give me the you guys are smart reasonable guys rhetoric. It implies that our argument on this is absurd, which of course it isn't. How in the world could the pubs possibly negotiate without something to give? The government shutdown I agree was a dumb move just because it actually helped the dems and there was no possible win for the pubs, but the debt ceiling was the only leverage the pubs had. The fake outrage over the pubs using it as leverage is what was absurd.

We kept hearing over and over again about how every point of negotiation was a nonstarter. I know that you are a smart reasonable guy, but the dems made a big mistake by not meeting the pubs in the middle on this. A simple and extremely fair delay of the mandate with a firm starting date would have actually helped the President. Now all of a sudden the pubs are looking like the reasonable party in all of this.

[AerchAngel]

Awesome letter.

Teachers go into the field to teach knowing it's pretty much a no-win situation and not very much awesome pay.

Doctors go into the field wanting to help people while making 6 figures, that's not going to change.

If he wants to go to wall street, good for him.

Obama didn't create the Wall Street monster. For years Wall Street has picked off some of the brightest minds from the highest institutions to get them to make money on the stock market instead of being productive in other sectors of the economy we could use them most. This guy is not a pioneer by any stretch of the imagination and this has been happening long ago.

This guy trusts the free market, that forces students to have $300k in student debt, that makes health insurance so expensive that the average person cannot afford it and a system where the insurance company rips off the customer. So instead he's going to bring his brilliance to wall street to screw over the average person even more.

It's ironic that the beginning of the story the guy does nothing but chalk up nostalgia to people that took care of him growing up.

That guy is an attention whore. If his motive was to help the sick, he'd still be a doctor for all the right reasons. It's not like doctors are going to be making less than a McDonald's manager or a police man. Doctors will still be pretty wealthy after this.

Teachers have more regulations and restrictions placed on them since they're actual government employees, but if you ask almost every single one of them why they do it, they'll tell you because they want to make a difference in kids' lives.
:happy0157:

[The Chosen One]

The point being made weso, was that the Republicans used the attempt at conference committees to try and show people that they were the ones trying to negotiate to prevent disaster when for months there were moderate Republicans AND democrats who tried to call conference committees on the debt issue dating back to last year and February of this year and throughout the summer.

When people were trying to negotiate with you before when there was no crisis, you denied them. However when we're in crisis now, you want to negotiate and make the other side that you denied negotiations previously to look bad, to try and make you look reasonable is outrageous.

[The Chosen One]

:happy0157:

That's why I said almost. I've met a few teachers here and there who I knew could care less about teaching, mainly because they were screwed. The quotas they have to meet, the grades they have to achieve when you're given a bad hand. Most of the teachers I've met, despite the fact they knew the system is against them, still strive to fight on for the kids.

[Tapate50]

Yeah, the letter was terrible. I do not support that letter.

[Tapate50]

The point being made weso, was that the Republicans used the attempt at conference committees to try and show people that they were the ones trying to negotiate to prevent disaster when for months there were moderate Republicans AND democrats who tried to call conference committees on the debt issue dating back to last year and February of this year and throughout the summer.

When people were trying to negotiate with you before when there was no crisis, you denied them. However when we're in crisis now, you want to negotiate and make the other side that you denied negotiations previously to look bad, to try and make you look reasonable is outrageous.

So you just hate "Politics"?

[The Chosen One]

The reality is the Republicans in the House have had one agenda the last 2 years. They've spent the majority of their time in the majority trying to repeal Obamacare, because for some reason the mid-term elections in 2010 were a mandate by the American people to get rid of it, but then when the President wins re-election with Obamacare as a central attacking point from the right, and the Senate retains the majority, there is no mandate to keep Obamacare? Why was President re-elected when Obamacare was one of the biggest issues in the election campaign last year? Why was Romney elected as the nominee when he had the most liberal healthcare plan of all the candidates?

They tried to use this debt ceiling debate as a last hurrah to try and get something done with Obamacare, and because of the 11th hour political theater they played, the markets were unsure of what was going to happen, the world markets were unsure of what was going to happen. Who was the (R) congressman from Kentucky that said "Our party is in control of one half, of one third of our government, but we're acting as if we're the ones in the majority?"

[The Chosen One]

So you just hate "Politics"?

What happened the last 2 weeks transcended politics.

That stunt has never been pulled in the history of our country (a political party trying to use our own country's economic stability as leverage for a law they disagreed with).

You had a political lobby push Ted Cruz as the voice of reason, who basically was on the record for saying we should default. You also had guys within the (R) in both chambers say a default would be good, it would settle down the markets. If Ted Cruz believed so faithfully in what he stood 21 hours for, he should've filibustered the CR that was passed. Boehner "allowed" the Senate Bill to come to a vote, because he didn't want to be seen as conceding the fight.

People are blaming the Democrats for playing possum and allowing this game to be played, when it was Boehner and Co. who knew from the beginning the battle they were fighting was pointless.

[acesfull86]

This guy trusts the free market, that forces students to have $300k in student debt, that makes health insurance so expensive that the average person cannot afford it

Proof?

[weso1]

All this doom and gloom that because of Obamacare, kids won't go into the medical field anymore is just silly. Doctor's will still have wealthy incomes after Obamacare. There will be more physicians assistants. The market will correct itself and adapt to whatever changes happen.

I'm still laughing at that letter. It's supposed to tell a story of a young boy whose dream it was, was to help people, because he was "born" to do it. Talks all about how much he was in love with becoming a doctor and being a caretaker like Patty. One law all of the sudden changes his passion and makes him go on a career change despite the fact it will still be a wealthy profession. This isn't going to prevent doctors from being able to afford a 200k house or a nice Mercedes or Jaguar. He tries to write his letter so poetic and eloquently, when really he's just showing you just has narcissistic he is. He's quitting his passion for helping all in the name of the "free market" he believes in, that at the end of the day is screwing the same people he claims to want to be helping. Good stuff Michael Gordon Lofti. You're just as much of a narcissist as Ted Cruz.

The problem is that Obamacare will introduce a lot more people into the system...at least at some point. So you already have a thinning profession, and now that profession will immediately thin due to the increased demand. Doctors have to go through a ridiculous amount of training, so this isn't a market where you can just add workers. Guess what's going to happen? The standards of becoming a doctor will be lessened or more folks will become P.A.'s. That's the best we can hope for.

[sturg33]

My girlfriend is in her fisrt year of med school - both of her parents are successful doctors, and she spent the last year doing research in the NIH.

The one theme: Everyone she worked with told her not to do med school, even her parents didn't want her to do med school. Just not worth it anymore.

But it's been her dream since she was a kid, now she is in 250K in debt, working her ass off, giving up the best years of her life, only to eventually get screwed by what will then be a completely government run health care system. Too bad too, cause she had an economics degree from Brown and could easily being doing something that would set her up for success

[Julio3000]

Oh don't give me the you guys are smart reasonable guys rhetoric. It implies that our argument on this is absurd, which of course it isn't. How in the world could the pubs possibly negotiate without something to give? The government shutdown I agree was a dumb move just because it actually helped the dems and there was no possible win for the pubs, but the debt ceiling was the only leverage the pubs had. The fake outrage over the pubs using it as leverage is what was absurd.

We kept hearing over and over again about how every point of negotiation was a nonstarter. I know that you are a smart reasonable guy, but the dems made a big mistake by not meeting the pubs in the middle on this. A simple and extremely fair delay of the mandate with a firm starting date would have actually helped the President. Now all of a sudden the pubs are looking like the reasonable party in all of this.


On the last part I agree. I used the wrong terminology. But I'd wager that if you and Boehner were in a room and it was lock tite that nothing said in that room would ever see the light of day, he would tell you not to lump them in with those Martians.

I don't trust the government to implement common sense things on the fly. There is so much abuse running rampant, this was ripe for it and it was a no brainer that DEMs refused to budge on for the time being.

OK, both of you...I guess I just don't agree that delaying the individual mandate is a no-brainer. I think it's quite possible that penalties will be delayed or tweaked, although I won't quibble with your skepticism about "common sense" as it applies to politicians. I also think that the R's only actual goal is defeating the ACA by whatever means are available to them, so I can't really fault Obama for not playing ball, particularly when he had the upper hand.

When repealing or otherwise defeating the ACA has been the #1 R talking point for 3 years, can you blame a Democrat for not entirely trusting a Republican congress that says "Oh, yeah, we just want to, er, FIX it. Let's not implement it just yet."

So delaying implementation for a year is "meeting in the middle?" It's hard to credit that, really.

[The Chosen One]

My girlfriend is in her fisrt year of med school - both of her parents are successful doctors, and she spent the last year doing research in the NIH.

The one theme: Everyone she worked with told her not to do med school, even her parents didn't want her to do med school. Just not worth it anymore.

But it's been her dream since she was a kid, now she is in 250K in debt, working her ass off, giving up the best years of her life, only to eventually get screwed by what will then be a completely government run health care system. Too bad too, cause she had an economics degree from Brown and could easily being doing something that would set her up for success

If your girlfriends parents are any bit conservative as you, then I'm not surprised at all that they're telling her not to.

So what field to they suggest she go in?

Medical Doctor is about the safest field you could enter with guaranteed quality income for a long term career.

[sturg33]

If your girlfriends parents are any bit conservative as you, then I'm not surprised at all that they're telling her not to.

So what field to they suggest she go in?

Medical Doctor is about the safest field you could enter with guaranteed quality income for a long term career.


They are nothing like me. They generally vote republican but are socially liberal.

They wanted her to stay away from med school because doctor salaries are continuing to decline, and that is before ACA and whatever is soon to come after. Her dad has his own very successful practice as a radiologist and his salary continues to go down YoY. They just didn't want her to spend 8 years of schooling, go into massive debt, for her career to be controlled by government mandates.

Like I said, she had an economics degree from Brown, she could have easily chose the more prosperous path.

[CK86]

300,000 lose coverage in Florida, another 76,000 lose it in Virginia, Maryland and Washington D.C.

“If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.”

Liar.

[57Brave]

Who are those 300,000 / 76,000?
What are the circumstances?
Who are your sources?

A common thread is the states involved opted to not have state exchanges but instead chose to have the federal govt run their state programs.
the states that chose to not have a state exchange have in common Koch backed governors and legislators. A little more scratch the surface would serve you well

[CK86]

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/thousands-get-health-insurance-cancellation-notices-8C11417913

[57Brave]

One is required to carry a legislated minimum amount of auto insurance .
Reading the article you provide I learned people are being informed their existing policy does not qualify the minimum overage

My mortgage company requires wei carry a minimum home insurance policy. by your logic a mortgage company has authority our duly elected government doesn't?
Pretty sure these minimum guidelines have been available for 3 years -- personal responsibility is a funny term

[sturg33]

“If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.” :rock:

[zitothebrave]

One is required to carry a legislated minimum amount of auto insurance .
Reading the article you provide I learned people are being informed their existing policy does not qualify the minimum overage

My mortgage company requires wei carry a minimum home insurance policy. by your logic a mortgage company has authority our duly elected government doesn't?
Pretty sure these minimum guidelines have been available for 3 years -- personal responsibility is a funny term

Yeah but if you don't like your mortgage company's policy on homeowners insurance you can shop around.

[57Brave]

really?
A lending agency is not going to allow you to have homeowners policy that doesn't insure their investment. Unless of course it is one of those we learned about in the lending crisis of '08.

[zitothebrave]

Then you have the option of not owning a home.

I'm for universal healthcare, but your arguments for this powderpuff insurance company's second best case that is Obamacare are weak. If you don't want car insurance you can walk, bike or take public transportation, if you don't like homeowners insurance you can rent. If you don't like renters insurance find a slumlord. There are options for other insurances if you don't want them.

[57Brave]

“If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.” :rock:


Are you in danger of losing your HC insurance ?
since when have you become such a staunch defender of the "takers" (that is a comment not a question)

Besides the obvious bruha-ha over ACA to simply dig at Obama I see the real issue is the ongoing war against government regulation. From the New Deal on.
Sturg - is the CDC worthwhile? Why is there a CDC? Who pays for it? If it wasn't there - who would fill that void?

The battle you are actually being sent out to fight is against the CDC and other government regulatory agencies. Kinda like the human shields Sadaam Hussein sent out to fight the Iranians in the 80's.

[57Brave]

Then you have the option of not owning a home.

I'm for universal healthcare, but your arguments for this powderpuff insurance company's second best case that is Obamacare are weak. If you don't want car insurance you can walk, bike or take public transportation, if you don't like homeowners insurance you can rent. If you don't like renters insurance find a slumlord. There are options for other insurances if you don't want them.


I agree with you. The law is weak and implementing it, even before the IT glitch, really awkward. What else has ever gotten this close to true universal HC. Shoot Z it's taken over 100 years to get this. If this goes away -- it could be another 100. What were the on the table alternatives? If any!

I find it offensive to read so called learned people spout some of the nonsense and 1/4 truths opponents predictably expect them to swallow.
Not so much defending the ACA as trying to set the record straight. There won't be death panels - see what I mean?

The argument that we all wind up paying for un insured visits to the emergency room are provable. Arguments of how many people have been helped by ACA prior to the Oct 1 exchange roll out are provable. There are many good things going on with this -- but, I agree with you -- I hate that the insurance industry is still involved. A half loaf is better than no loaf. Abraham Lincoln said that

& That was the compromise

[sturg33]

Since this law is essentially raising rates on everyone and forcing poor people to buy something they can't afford - how can you defend it?

[sturg33]

Oh, and by the way - finally got my premiums. If I want to keep my same coverage, I have to pay 79% more.

AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR THE WIN!!!!

[57Brave]

why?

[sturg33]

Because our company is now forced to offer "basic" health care options for contractors and non-full time employees. And the regular folks have to subsidize it

[acesfull86]

I got lucky with my company...they're passing on the majority of the cost increase to people who are married and/or have kids. Cost of prescription drug coverage going way up too. Since I'm single and am not on any prescriptions, my cost increase isn't going to be severe.

[Tapate50]

We renewed back in August. The doo hadn't hit the fan at that time, but next Aug our company will be evaluating our entire plan.

[57Brave]

To sturg from above:

According to everything I've read and first take is your employer is who your beef is with.
79% is outrageous unless they were fully subsidizing your HC and now they expect you to pay a higher portion. Was there an implied or written guarantee of shared or payed for HC costs?.


In which case 79% is still outrageous. Because if it was the policy that increased and diminished coverage the insurance company would have to, by provision of the ACA, justify to you the rate increase.
In this case what I see is the employer manipulating both you and the law.
Do you have a union to stick up for you? Or, have you contacted Kaiser Foundation for their advise