S-Rod traded to Pirates

[steveAKAslick]

Per Bowman:

Source: The Braves have traded Sean Rodriguez to the Pirates for a catching prospect.

[SidSlid92]

Bowman says we are getting a C prospect. DOB says 1B/OF prospect.

[chop2chip]

So much for the Braves hoping he would be our Ben Zobrist.

[msstate7]

Weird to me. We clearing salary?

[steveAKAslick]

I haven't seen or heard any word on the prospect but the Pirates don't have a catcher in their Top 30

[The Chosen One]

What a car wreck.

[steveAKAslick]

Well DOB is saying 1B/OF prospect...

Youth movement is on: #Braves have traded veteran utility man Sean Rodriguez to his old #Pirates team in exchange for a 1B/OF prospect.

[weso1]

DOB says it's for a 1b/of prospect.

[steveAKAslick]

Conor Joe

[SJ24]

Conor Joe

a 24-year-old hitting .240 in AA with little to no power.

Lol.

[Chico]

I guess this is why they've been playing him to hope he showcased to get a better prospect and clear some salary. My hope with Johnson, Dickey, Srod, and Jaime is we're eating some money to help move Kemp or Markakis.

The prospect coming back will indicate how much/little that shoulder injury is going to affect him.

This would also change my mind about us wanting to flip high on Camargo. He's more valuable without a Sean Rodriguez on the roster.

[steveAKAslick]

a 24-year-old hitting .240 in AA with little to no power.

Lol.

But but HE WAS A FIRST ROUND PICK IN 2014!!

[steveAKAslick]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=joe---000con

[TheBravos]

A big trade is coming...count on it. Clearing and acquiring cash.

[TheBravos]

My bet is Verlander

[cajunrevenge]

I liked the signing at the time but I wonder if he will ever come back from the shoulder injury. With the emergence of some other solid bench pieces I am glad we pulled the plug before it got to a Melvin situation.

[FUEagle]

Call up Ronald

[steveAKAslick]

My bet is Verlander

In the past, what's been some of the big/impact players moved in August? I'm just curious if there have been any of significance?

[Chico]

I wonder if we'll try and revert him back to Cather now. He'd have more value if we can.

[dak]

I liked the signing at the time but I wonder if he will ever come back from the shoulder injury. With the emergence of some other solid bench pieces I am glad we pulled the plug before it got to a Melvin situation.

Same here. I thought it was a good sign, and SRod seems like a great guy. The niche he filled is less of a need for the Braves now though, and major shoulder surgery is pretty scary . . . especially for a player in this 30s.

[NinersSBChamps]

Lol this organization is really clueless.

[50PoundHead]

Connor Joe was well thought of when drafted. It hasn't translated for him to this point. Looks to be a guy without a clear position.

For the record (and I said this a week ago), I hated the Rodriguez signing.

[cajunrevenge]

He didn't even have a long track record of success before the injury so that might not even be the reason he has struggled.

[TheBravos]

Same here. I thought it was a good sign, and SRod seems like a great guy. The niche he filled is less of a need for the Braves now though, and major shoulder surgery is pretty scary . . . especially for a player in this 30s.

It was a smart move to clear cash on a player we don't really need now. You could sign Phillips back next year to play 3rd lol.

[Hawk]

How much money are the Braves clearing here?

[The Chosen One]

The Braves FO probably thinks Neck's trade value skyrocketed because he got his 2000th hit.

[NinersSBChamps]

He didn't even have a long track record of success before the injury so that might not even be the reason he has struggled.

Didn't understand the fascination with him when the Braves signed him. Not that a player needs to be any good for this place to go nuts and start tooting their homer horns.

[NinersSBChamps]

The Braves FO probably thinks Neck's trade value skyrocketed because he got his 2000th hit.

Just think he's only just beginning. I'd venture to say that Nick the Stick is just scratching the surface as a hitter. 2000 is only about one third of what he will end up with when he decides hang his cleats up.

[thethe]

Absolutely sounds like the precursor to another large deal

[50PoundHead]

It was a smart move to clear cash on a player we don't really need now. You could sign Phillips back next year to play 3rd lol.

I'm sure there will be myriad graphs and analysis to gauge Phillips' ability at 3B, but I can't figure out why he had never played the position prior to a week ago. Who knows what these guys do in side sessions, but if Phillips could play a passable 3B, he wouldn't be a bad guy to keep around at the right price.

[steveAKAslick]

Absolutely sounds like the precursor to another large deal

When was the last BIG trade in August? I'm not being a smartass, just curious...hopefully not Verlander, defeats the purpose of a "youth movement"

[thethe]

When was the last BIG trade in August? I'm not being a smartass, just curious...hopefully not Verlander, defeats the purpose of a "youth movement"

Verlander only makes sense if there's a concurrent deal to move teheran.

Sadly I think that's going to happen and I'll miss Julio

[SidSlid92]

How much money are the Braves clearing here?

Probably saves us around $6.5 mil.

[Pugfan]

When was the last BIG trade in August? I'm not being a smartass, just curious...hopefully not Verlander, defeats the purpose of a "youth movement"

Denny Neagle?

[msstate7]

Verlander only makes sense if there's a concurrent deal to move teheran.

Sadly I think that's going to happen and I'll miss Julio

Teheran won't clear waivers

[thethe]

Teheran won't clear waivers

He would be traded in the offseason in this scenario

[Pugfan]

He didn't even have a long track record of success before the injury so that might not even be the reason he has struggled.

Agree. Other than last year he's been pretty meh. Camargo should fill his roll long term just fine.

[Deester11]

Verlander only makes sense if there's a concurrent deal to move teheran.

Sadly I think that's going to happen and I'll miss Julio
Me too.

[striker42]

Rodriguez was a good signing, just didn't work out. Can't control freak accidents like that wreck.

[The Chosen One]

I think Derek Lee was also an August trade

[steveAKAslick]

Denny Neagle?

Looked it up and yeah he was traded for Schimdt on August 27

[bravesfanforlife88]

Rodriguez was a good signing, just didn't work out. Can't control freak accidents like that wreck.

And I think he rushed back. Still rusty...but probably the best place for him to go is back to the pirates

[The Chosen One]

Looked it up and yeah he was traded for Schimdt on August 27

Derek Lee was mid august I believe in 2010. I think it went down right after we lost Chipper.

[steveAKAslick]

I think Derek Lee was also an August trade

Yep August 18th with his approval

[nsacpi]

But but HE WAS A FIRST ROUND PICK IN 2014!!our scouts must like him

[SidSlid92]

I like this bit of business by Coppy. SRod easily replaceable for us. Lots of options as utility guys already in the system. Gets his money off the books for next year. Bowman just tweeted that we save about $7.5 mil from this move.

Chances are high that Joe becomes nothing. But was solid in 2016, has great k/BB ratio this year, decent obp; I wouldn't write him off completely just yet.

Nothing to dislike about this deal.

[goldfly]

good

no need for him on this team

[JxnMissFan]

Good move by the Braves. Paying a 33 year old utility player with a bum shoulder 5.7 million next year would be a bad move. I'm surprise the Pirates took his whole salary back.

[dak]

893909290670596096
893909569960894464

[steveAKAslick]

Per Grant McCauley

#Braves bringing up Jace Peterson to take Rodriguez spot on the roster.

[mqt]

I actually saw Connor Joe back in May. Wasn't paying the best attention as I'd consumed two 32 oz beers in the first inning (it was 7-5 after 1, so it took a while, lol), but I remember being impressed with him. Ripped a double in the game.

[Knucksie]

Per Grant McCauley

#Braves bringing up Jace Peterson to take Rodriguez spot on the roster.

That likely won't last long.

[clvclv]

Weird to me. We clearing salary?

Yup. For Moustakas.

[jpx7]

Yup. For Moustakas.

Barf.

[rico43]

This trade was fated the moment Phillips agreed to play third. The play he made last night further secured that scenario. Now, the Braves have to look inward very hard and decided what they do in Camargo vs. Swanson. Camargo's sample size is growing rapidly.

[thethe]

This trade was fated the moment Phillips agreed to play third. The play he made last night further secured that scenario. Now, the Braves have to look inward very hard and decided what they do in Camargo vs. Swanson. Camargo's sample size is growing rapidly.

You're going to have to leave Swanson in AAA at the start of next season. The kid is lost. He just needs a pressure free enviornment to take a breath and he will be back to a very good player for us in the future.

[Horsehide Harry]

Salary dump

[zbhargrove]

This trade was fated the moment Phillips agreed to play third. The play he made last night further secured that scenario. Now, the Braves have to look inward very hard and decided what they do in Camargo vs. Swanson. Camargo's sample size is growing rapidly.

He's also gotten ice cold rapidly

[Julio3000]

He's also gotten ice cold rapidly

I agree that he's going to fall to earth, but he's cooled off and still outhitting Swanson's AAA line.

[Knucksie]

I actually saw Connor Joe back in May. Wasn't paying the best attention as I'd consumed two 32 oz beers in the first inning (it was 7-5 after 1, so it took a while, lol), but I remember being impressed with him. Ripped a double in the game.

After 9 innings, somebody else was ripped too!

[rico43]

Hearing now that Rodriguez was claimed by the Pirates when the Braves moved him through waivers. Braves immediately informed the Pirates that he was theirs, lock stock and $$$.

[Hawk]

So between the Garcia and Rodriguez trades the Braves have cleaned about $12.5MM in commitments off the books (~$7.5MM due this season).

[mfree80]

Hearing now that Rodriguez was claimed by the Pirates when the Braves moved him through waivers. Braves immediately informed the Pirates that he was theirs, lock stock and $$$.

So what does that mean for Joe? Would there even have to be a trade in that case?

[rico43]

He's also gotten ice cold rapidly

5-for-14 in August?

[jpx7]

You're going to have to leave Swanson in AAA at the start of next season. The kid is lost. He just needs a pressure free enviornment to take a breath and he will be back to a very good player for us in the future.

I agree. I'm still pretty doubtful Camargo is a full-time SS for a good major-league team, but I'm pretty convinced Swanson needs a hard re-set and a lot of lower-pressure PA to work himself out of this nadir. Letting him play out the string in AAA, then positioning Camargo to win a starting spot with Cobb County in 2018 (unless Swanson truly tears up September and spring, while Mr Marshland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camargue) falls entirely on his face), is the best chance the team has, I think, to see what it's really got in each player.

[steveAKAslick]

5-for-14 in August?

.246/.269/.431 since the All-Star break as of August 2nd, I still think he profiles as a super utility guy long term which isn't a bad thing

[clvclv]

I agree. I'm still pretty doubtful Camargo is a full-time SS for a good major-league team, but I'm pretty convinced Swanson needs a hard re-set and a lot of lower-pressure PA to work himself out of this nadir. Letting him play out the string in AAA, then positioning Camargo to win a starting spot with Cobb County in 2018 (unless Swanson truly tears up September and spring, while Mr Marshland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camargue) falls entirely on his face), is the best chance the team has, I think, to see what it's really got in each player.

The sad thing about the whole mess (JMO) is that if they'd have just let him play without all the fanfare of the commercials and bobbleheads, he'd probably have been just fine. He had the stretches this year where he was making solid adjustments and didn't look like he was overwhelmed. That's certainly a criticism the brass deserves - that they mishandled that part. If it weren't for all the other distractions, he may well have snapped out of it by now. Here's hoping they learned from it and just let the rest of them come up and prove themselves before marketing them so *amn hard. If you have to have more bobbleheads, have more Kemps, Freemans, Markakises, etc. - *ell, what about Flowers maybe? The park was going to sell itself this year without all that crap, and The Battery should help with it in the future as well.

[nsacpi]

So between the Garcia and Rodriguez trades the Braves have cleaned about $12.5MM in commitments off the books (~$7.5MM due this season).

apparently bonuses for the front office the past three years were pretty skimpy due to failure to make budget...they want to avoid a fourpeat

[thethe]

apparently bonuses for the front office the past three years were pretty skimpy due to failure to make budget...they want to avoid a fourpeat

You haven't heard about all the regulatory cuts....bonuses for all!

[nsacpi]

You haven't heard about all the regulatory cuts....bonuses for all!

good luck with that bro

[zbhargrove]

I agree that he's going to fall to earth, but he's cooled off and still outhitting Swanson's AAA line.

I still think Camargo is a better long term option than Swanson. Trade Swanson while he still has value.

[zbhargrove]

5-for-14 in August?

14 at bats? Look at his stats since the break. Not very good.

[nsacpi]

I still think Camargo is a better long term option than Swanson. Trade Swanson while he still has value.

I think it is very much an open question.

[Southcack77]

I still think Camargo is a better long term option than Swanson. Trade Swanson while he still has value.

If someone still values Swanson highly enough to take him as major piece in deal for something the Braves need, I'd consider it.

Otherwise you try and get him on track or at worst keep him as a cheap utility guy.

[Knucksie]

Funny how every first page of every transaction thread begins with posts blasting the FO. Then turn around and read comments in this thread. Regular contributors have no better long term plan or solution other than to trade the latest whipping boy.

[smootness]

I still think Camargo is a better long term option than Swanson. Trade Swanson while he still has value.

You serious, Clark?

[zbhargrove]

You serious, Clark?

Have you watched the players, Clark? Sadly, I just don't think Swanson is that good. I know that's hard to swallow considering he was our #1 prospect, but they all simply do not work out.

[nsacpi]

You serious, Clark?

It is at least an open question

[rico43]

The sad thing about the whole mess (JMO) is that if they'd have just let him play without all the fanfare of the commercials and bobbleheads, he'd probably have been just fine. He had the stretches this year where he was making solid adjustments and didn't look like he was overwhelmed. That's certainly a criticism the brass deserves - that they mishandled that part. If it weren't for all the other distractions, he may well have snapped out of it by now. Here's hoping they learned from it and just let the rest of them come up and prove themselves before marketing them so *amn hard. If you have to have more bobbleheads, have more Kemps, Freemans, Markakises, etc. - *ell, what about Flowers maybe? The park was going to sell itself this year without all that crap, and The Battery should help with it in the future as well.

My unpopular thought is Swanson needs to shed his cocoon helmet and stick his nose back in there. Francoeur and Stanton both had injuries as bad, if not worse, and were able to resume their business at the plate.

[rico43]

It is at least an open question

That last play also restates the case that he is as good or better a shortstop.

[mfree80]

Obviously none of us know for sure what these guys are going to do... My opinion for what its worth.

I love Camargo and really like him in a utility role, but still see Swanson as the better long term player. I think Camargo playing every day has been exposed a little, and would be better in a utility role.

Patience is not a virtue for most fans. I think Swanny will be fine over the long haul.

[zbhargrove]

That last play also restates the case that he is as good or better a shortstop.

I think there is no doubt Camargo is better defensively but he's going to need to get hot again to prove he can cut it on the offensive side.

[Tapate50]

So I stop monitoring this place for one Fricking day, and y'all let Coppy get into Chip's stash? All this **** is bonkers man

[bravesfanMatt]

I would like Swanson to open his stance a bit more and then close up on his swing. He flys off the ball way too much and if he was bringing his front foot back into the plate, he would stay on the ball better..

[Southcack77]

I think there is no doubt Camargo is better defensively but he's going to need to get hot again to prove he can cut it on the offensive side.

Improve offensively to beat out whom?

[mfree80]

I think there is no doubt Camargo is better defensively but he's going to need to get hot again to prove he can cut it on the offensive side.

I love Camargo's arm, and hands, but i am not sure Dansby doesn't have better range.

[zbhargrove]

Improve offensively to beat out whom?

Talking about long term potential between him and Dansby

[smootness]

Dansby is very good defensively. Even with all the errors, he's been above-average at SS. I absolutely question whether Camargo is better there.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Dansby is very good defensively. Even with all the errors, he's been above-average at SS. I absolutely question whether Camargo is better there.
Heck, he beat Albies out to play short. I think Swanson's better defensively too.

[mfree80]

This> We shouldn't sell him short because he wasn't immediately what we hope he will be. He is solid defensively, and will get it together with the bat.

Patience!

[Enscheff]

I love Camargo's arm, and hands, but i am not sure Dansby doesn't have better range.

Dansby does have better range. Folks see Camargo's double plus arm and confuse it with good defense.

[Enscheff]

Dansby is very good defensively. Even with all the errors, he's been above-average at SS. I absolutely question whether Camargo is better there.

No need to question it. You're right.

[NinersSBChamps]

Dansby is very good defensively. Even with all the errors, he's been above-average at SS. I absolutely question whether Camargo is better there.


If he were "very good" on defense wouldn't he be better than just "above-average?"

[NinersSBChamps]

This> We shouldn't sell him short because he wasn't immediately what we hope he will be. He is solid defensively, and will get it together with the bat.

Patience!

Why? He doesn't automatically get better just because he's young. I think a lot of people here have this misconception that just because a player is young doesn't mean he improves the next season or the season after that. Yes, it is still very early in his career and he could get better, but then again there is a chance he flops. Young players don't always improve over time like people here think. Maybe someday they will enter reality.

[nsacpi]

Dansby does have better range. Folks see Camargo's double plus arm and confuse it with good defense.

Dansby doesn't have especially good hands for a middle infielder. I think Camargo has him beat in that department. But I agree about Dansby having better range.

[mfree80]

Why? He doesn't automatically get better just because he's young. I think a lot of people here have this misconception that just because a player is young doesn't mean he improves the next season or the season after that. Yes, it is still very early in his career and he could get better, but then again there is a chance he flops. Young players don't always improve over time like people here think. Maybe someday they will enter reality.

Nothing is automatic, but his talent is beyond question. Young players with talent who also work hard get better until they reach their prime. You may not see him that way, but I think most people in Baseball have not given up on him at this point.

[weso1]

Dansby does have better range. Folks see Camargo's double plus arm and confuse it with good defense.

But doesn't arm play into range? Make a play deep in the hole and a strong arm can make the difference.

[Enscheff]

Dansby doesn't have especially good hands for a middle infielder. I think Camargo has him beat in that department. But I agree about Dansby having better range.

I can't wait until statcast data is crunched enough to tell us how much range each infielder has. This is absolutely something that can be quantified with the data available.

Reaction time + acceleration + foot speed = range....and the radar tracks all that data.

[NinersSBChamps]

I can't wait until statcast data is crunched enough to tell us how much range each infielder has. This is absolutely something that can be quantified with the data available.

Reaction time + acceleration + foot speed = range....and the radar tracks all that data.

You go crunch those numbers.
I will take grounders.

[thewupk]

But doesn't arm play into range? Make a play deep in the hole and a strong arm can make the difference.

Indeed. Those with super arms can play deeper which allows them to get to more balls and still get them out with their arm.

[Enscheff]

But doesn't arm play into range? Make a play deep in the hole and a strong arm can make the difference.

Again, hard to say. It obviously does, but by how much?

An average throw from SS in the hole is about 130'. Someone who throws the ball 85 gets it there in 1.04 seconds. Someone who throws it 90 gets it there in 0.98 seconds.

How big of a difference is that 0.058 seconds? A guy running 20 MPH covers 1.7' in that amount of time. So that is definitely a big deal.

Is giving up 1.7' to every runner worth getting to more grounders? If so, how many more grounders caught equals the outs lost due to giving up those 1.7'?

What about transition time from glove to throwing hand?

All this data is available with statcast. Someone just has to calculate it all.

[Enscheff]

You go crunch those numbers.
I will take grounders.

lol how many grounders do you field in a week tough guy? Who is hitting them at you?

[weso1]

Again, hard to say. It obviously does, but by how much?

An average throw from SS in the hole is about 130'. Someone who throws the ball 85 gets it there in 1.04 seconds. Someone who throws it 90 gets it there in 0.98 seconds.

How big of a difference is that 0.058 seconds? A guy running 20 MPH covers 1.7' in that amount of time. So that is definitely a big deal.

Is giving up 1.7' to every runner worth getting to more grounders? If so, how many more grounders caught equals the outs lost due to giving up those 1.7'?

What about transition time from glove to throwing hand?

All this data is available with statcast. Someone just has to calculate it all.

Speed in the infield seems like a relatively poor way to judge infielders. How often do infielders get close to their top speed? Arm strength seems much more important than speed. I think you make a good point in regards to transition time.

[NinersSBChamps]

Again, hard to say. It obviously does, but by how much?

An average throw from SS in the hole is about 130'. Someone who throws the ball 85 gets it there in 1.04 seconds. Someone who throws it 90 gets it there in 0.98 seconds.

How big of a difference is that 0.058 seconds? A guy running 20 MPH covers 1.7' in that amount of time. So that is definitely a big deal.

Is giving up 1.7' to every runner worth getting to more grounders? If so, how many more grounders caught equals the outs lost due to giving up those 1.7'?

What about transition time from glove to throwing hand?

All this data is available with statcast. Someone just has to calculate it all.

And baseball is just littered with guys who run 20 MPH.

[Enscheff]

Speed in the infield seems like a relatively poor way to judge infielders. How often do infielders get close to their top speed? Arm strength seems much more important than speed. I think you make a good point in regards to transition time.

By speed I meant the base runner covers 1.7' in that extra time. The weaker arm at SS essentially makes the base 1.7' closer for a fast runner.

If Swanson has better range and get to more balls, how does that balance against giving all runners a 1.7' advantage to first due to his weaker arm?

Hard to say without someone crunching those statcast data.

[Enscheff]

And baseball is just littered with guys who run 20 MPH.

So they are running slower than that and the weaker arm costs less distance for the defender.

Still waiting for your manly response to the grounders you take, snowflake.

[NinersSBChamps]

lol how many grounders do you field in a week tough guy? Who is hitting them at you?

Not many and generally none at all.

Just proving the point that baseball is played on the diamond on not on a computer.

[Enscheff]

Not many and generally none at all.

Just proving the point that baseball is played on the diamond on not on a computer.

Thank you for the wisdom.

Do you know where player contracts are calculated? Here's a hint...not on the diamond.

[NinersSBChamps]

So they are running slower than that and the weaker arm costs less distance for the defender.

Still waiting for your manly response to the grounders you take, snowflake.

Maybe next time pick a benchmark that actually has some substance behind it. As opposed to throwing out a very high number that few in the game can actually reach.

[Enscheff]

Maybe next time pick a benchmark that actually has some substance behind it. As opposed to throwing out a very high number that few in the game can actually reach.

Why don't you calculate the difference in ground covered in 0.058 seconds by a guy running 20 mph vs one running at whatever speed you deem an appropriate benchmark.

Let us know how much that changes the overall point being made.

I'll wait...though I doubt you can do the simple arithmetic haha.

[NinersSBChamps]

Speed in the infield seems like a relatively poor way to judge infielders. How often do infielders get close to their top speed? Arm strength seems much more important than speed. I think you make a good point in regards to transition time.

Speed is quite possibly the worst way to judge infielders.
If he said something like acceleration that would hold much more weight. Like you said infielders very rarely if ever reach a top speed. Top speeds are acquired in a straight line. Lateral quickness would be a better indicator than speed.

[Enscheff]

Speed is quite possibly the worst way to judge infielders.
If he said something like acceleration that would hold much more weight. Like you said infielders very rarely if ever reach a top speed. Top speeds are acquired in a straight line. Lateral quickness would be a better indicator than speed.

Yeah I was talking about base runner speed.

[thewupk]

20 MPH is virtually impossible from home to first on a swing. Generally you are going to be living in the 14-15 MPH range with only the speed demons surpassing that and players like McCann falling below it.

The basic idea still stands. Arm can make up a bit in range but still the most important aspect of any fielder is actually getting to balls and fielding them. Arm, error rate, ability to turn two, etc are all factors but getting to balls will always reign supreme.

[Enscheff]

20 MPH is virtually impossible from home to first on a swing. Generally you are going to be living in the 14-15 MPH range with only the speed demons surpassing that and players like McCann falling below it.

The basic idea still stands. Arm can make up a bit in range but still the most important aspect of any fielder is actually getting to balls and fielding them. Arm, error rate, ability to turn two, etc are all factors but getting to balls will always reign supreme.

This is my gut feeling too. Being short in range is a hit 100% of the time, no matter who is running. Being short on arm strength results in a hit less than 100% of the time.

How many hits does a weaker arm give up? That's what I want statcast to tell us.

[thewupk]

This is my gut feeling too. Being short in range is a hit 100% of the time, no matter who is running. Being short on arm strength results in a hit less than 100% of the time.

How many hits does a weaker arm give up? That's what I want statcast to tell us.

Agreed. IMO the ability to get the ball out of the glove and actually throwing it is more important than raw throwing speed.

[nsacpi]

Again, hard to say. It obviously does, but by how much?

An average throw from SS in the hole is about 130'. Someone who throws the ball 85 gets it there in 1.04 seconds. Someone who throws it 90 gets it there in 0.98 seconds.

How big of a difference is that 0.058 seconds? A guy running 20 MPH covers 1.7' in that amount of time. So that is definitely a big deal.

Is giving up 1.7' to every runner worth getting to more grounders? If so, how many more grounders caught equals the outs lost due to giving up those 1.7'?

What about transition time from glove to throwing hand?

All this data is available with statcast. Someone just has to calculate it all.

Someone with a stronger arm can play deeper. Andrelton used this to great advantage.

[thethe]

Reaction time is also impacted by a pitcher being able to consistently hit their spots.

[nsacpi]

Reaction time is also impacted by a pitcher being able to consistently hit their spots.

Irrelevant to the discussion of Swanson versus Camargo defensively unless you think pitchers hit their spots better when one of them is out there.

[thethe]

Irrelevant to the discussion of Swanson versus Camargo defensively unless you think pitchers hit their spots better when one of them is out there.

Agreed it's irrelevant to that discussion. I was just saying in general.

[DirkPiggler]

Dansby doesn't have especially good hands for a middle infielder. I think Camargo has him beat in that department. But I agree about Dansby having better range.

You may be right, but I don't think we can say that just based on this year. Like his hitting, I think the bobbles and drops this year were more of a between the ears problem than one of physical skill.

[nsacpi]

You may be right, but I don't think we can say that just based on this year. Like his hitting, I think the bobbles and drops this year were more of a between the ears problem than one of physical skill.

Maybe. He never looked totally relaxed and confident out there.

[Enscheff]

Agreed it's irrelevant to that discussion. I was just saying in general.

Thanks for bringing it up then.

[GeorgiaGirl]

I'll put it as simple as this:

If you think Swanson is one of the biggest busts in a while of this organization, you better be looking for options at SS this offseason, because Camargo sure as heck is not a long term starter at SS for a good team.

No, the sample size ain't big enough with Camargo. He's a case, just like Inciarte in which you need a BIG sample size before you can say "This is who he is". Not just around 200 ABs, a full year.

[Chico]

Has anything been said as to where he wll play? Are we going to convert him back to cacther? We have enough left field/1B types with not enough pop.

[nsacpi]

I'll put it as simple as this:

If you think Swanson is one of the biggest busts in a while of this organization, you better be looking for options at SS this offseason, because Camargo sure as heck is not a long term starter at SS for a good team.

No, the sample size ain't big enough with Camargo. He's a case, just like Inciarte in which you need a BIG sample size before you can say "This is who he is". Not just around 200 ABs, a full year.

I'm ok for next year mixing and matching at short (Camargo, Swanson) and third (Camargo, Swanson, Santana, Freeman with Adams at first). It should allow us to accumulate the kind of sample needed to draw some conclusions about Camargo and Swanson. I agree it is too early to say Swanson is a bust or Camargo is the solution.

[Hawk]

What about sending Swanson to a Winter League?

[GeorgiaGirl]

Doubt winter league does any good with Swanson. He needs to revamp his swing as there is a flaw in it and spend at least two months in the offseason with pitchers with sliders, purely practicing against that.

Mike Foltynewicz can be one of them.

[bravesfanMatt]

Has anything been said as to where he wll play? Are we going to convert him back to cacther? We have enough left field/1B types with not enough pop.

Really doesn't matter. He will be sent to AA or A+ and be platooned until we cut him or he shows us something. He is just a name attached to a salary dump trade.

[Southcack77]

How much range difference are we talking about between the braves organization defensive player of the year and Swanson.

Is it much less a marginal difference than arm strength?

[Chico]

I'll put it as simple as this:

If you think Swanson is one of the biggest busts in a while of this organization, you better be looking for options at SS this offseason, because Camargo sure as heck is not a long term starter at SS for a good team.

No, the sample size ain't big enough with Camargo. He's a case, just like Inciarte in which you need a BIG sample size before you can say "This is who he is". Not just around 200 ABs, a full year.

I agree Camargo is not the answer, but if we're training him in to being a super utility guy and letting him get some reps at shortstop when we're out of it, that's ok with me. Everything we're doing right now is to setup the offseason.

I do not think the front office views Swanson as anything but a staple of the franchise. I like the fact they called him up early. Life and baseball are all about making adjustments and the sooner you do that the better off you are. Usually you have to struggle for that to happen.

I don't think it's by accident we have no depth in the minors at 1B or SS. Dansby will be here a while just like Freeman.

[SJ24]

Doubt winter league does any good with Swanson. He needs to revamp his swing as there is a flaw in it and spend at least two months in the offseason with pitchers with sliders, purely practicing against that.

Mike Foltynewicz can be one of them.

What is the flaw in Dansby's swing? I'm not doubting you- just curious as I want to learn.

[Chico]

Really doesn't matter. He will be sent to AA or A+ and be platooned until we cut him or he shows us something. He is just a name attached to a salary dump trade.

I completely disagree. I look at it like flipping a house. You made an investment, so you work on it to approve the appeal and flip it.

Yes, of course everyone knows it's a salary dump

[GeorgiaGirl]

What is the flaw in Dansby's swing? I'm not doubting you- just curious as I want to learn.

I can't explain it sadly but its something that I've read about. If I tried I'd just say a bunch of things, let's just say because of this flaw it's a miracle he hit any home runs at all.

[Southcack77]

I completely disagree. I look at it like flipping a house. You made an investment, so you work on it to approve the appeal and flip it.

Yes, of course everyone knows it's a salary dump

He'll be rule 5 eligible this year but I do not guess he is that likely to be picked

[Knucksie]

If you think Swanson is one of the biggest busts in a while of this organization, you better be looking for options at SS this offseason, because Camargo sure as heck is not a long term starter at SS for a good team.

It's not that as much as that there are more than a few Chicken Littles posting here.

[Tapate50]

I'll put it as simple as this:

If you think Swanson is one of the biggest busts in a while of this organization, you better be looking for options at SS this offseason, because Camargo sure as heck is not a long term starter at SS for a good team.

No, the sample size ain't big enough with Camargo. He's a case, just like Inciarte in which you need a BIG sample size before you can say "This is who he is". Not just around 200 ABs, a full year.

We are over 300 and counting on Camargo. I'm a believer, just not quite at this level of production.

[msstate7]

We are over 300 and counting on Camargo. I'm a believer, just not quite at this level of production.

Camargo has 182 ABs for Atlanta

[jpx7]

Camargo has 182 ABs for Atlanta

And only 197 PA. Still need more data on him at MLB.

[Tapate50]

Camargo has 182 ABs for Atlanta

He was hitting .311 at Gwinnett. He has been on a notable uptick at the plate all season. Way up from his norms. And it's mostly been in the power dept.

[UNCBlue012]

A-Rod just hit a walk-off homer for the Pirates. Lmao

[nsacpi]

He was hitting .311 at Gwinnett. He has been on a notable uptick at the plate all season. Way up from his norms. And it's mostly been in the power dept.
yeah...his AAA data this year is relevant in assessing the new power he is showing

[msstate7]

A-Rod just hit a walk-off homer for the Pirates. Lmao

He'll blow up now. I don't really miss him, but we gave him zero shot here with the way we rushed him back

[thewupk]

A-Rod just hit a walk-off homer for the Pirates. Lmao

sounds about right. maybe he hated playing here like Kemp hated San Diego?

[CyYoung31]

sounds about right. maybe he hated playing here like Kemp hated San Diego?

You can't blame him for taking the ridiculous contract that Texas offered at the last minute.

[mfree80]

He'll blow up now. I don't really miss him, but we gave him zero shot here with the way we rushed him back

While I don't think S-Rod really had a fair chance here.... We didn't see enough of him to know who he really is, the trade happened because we have younger, cheaper guys who can do what he does at about the same level. Clearing his salary for next year opens doors for guys like Camargo and Santana next season. It won't be a surprise if other guys displace them in the future as well. Such is the life of a utility type player. If they do it well they will have a job, but rarely really secure with a team for the long haul.

[Super]

Lol this organization is really clueless.

says this guy who called josh donaldson trash lol

[Super]

Didn't understand the fascination with him when the Braves signed him. Not that a player needs to be any good for this place to go nuts and start tooting their homer horns.

who was "fascinated"? I'd think most people thought it was a decent, cheap signing.

[NinersSBChamps]

who was "fascinated"? I'd think most people thought it was a decent, cheap signing.

People were excited when they signed him and then made a big deal after he got hurt. Like his absence was some insurmountable obstacle.

[Tapate50]

People were excited when they signed him and then made a big deal after he got hurt. Like his absence was some insurmountable obstacle.

I don't think this was the case...at all.

For someone that only likes established ML players, you certainly like to pivot on this stance... a lot.

[Super]

I don't think this was the case...at all.

For someone that only likes established ML players, you certainly like to pivot on this stance... a lot.

almost as if he has no idea what he's talking about and will just criticize regardless.

[NinersSBChamps]

I don't think this was the case...at all.

For someone that only likes established ML players, you certainly like to pivot on this stance... a lot.

Rodriguez was established as a below average ML player. The only intrigue was that he was able to bring that below average play to a multitude of positions.

[Enscheff]

People were excited when they signed him and then made a big deal after he got hurt. Like his absence was some insurmountable obstacle.

Yeah, that's not accurate at all.

The only big deal folks made when he got hurt was hoping he and his family were ok.

Everyone knew he was a 2 win player.

[Perfect Cell]

I hope Carmago is worth all this

[GeorgiaGirl]

Oooooooopppppss.