Some profound observations

[rico43]

Some observations:

1) Mike Soroka should be shut down for the season. He has worked a perfectly reasonable 136 innings in 2017, but is winless (0-3) in his last four starts. His ERA has gone from 2.32 to 2.92. He had only 14 strikeouts to go with 10 walks in 23. None of his final four starts went past the sixth inning while his three previous starts all went seven innings.

2) Ronald Acuna is a major league outfielder. Call him up now and pay him accordingly. All of the talk about control and years and what's too soon should be nothing more than message board chatter. It worked out fine with Andruw Jones; fans should not have to fret over their multi-billion dollar owners' arbitrary payroll. Pay the man whatever he needs, when he needs is. Of all the prospects, only he (not Wright, not Maitan, not Anderson) has performed well enough to be considered a franchise player. So far.

3) DFA Johnson, leave Viz your closer moving forward. That was the plan at the beginning of 2016, anyway. It is also time to bring Minter and Winkler back on board to see what they have.

4) When Camargo comes back, play either he or Swanson at second (I don't care which) and allow Albies to shut it down. He's trying to yank every ball out of the park and the last thing he needs to be is a fly ball hitter. Send him to the AFL to work on bunting and hitting ground balls and the power will take care of itself.

5) Offer Phillips a one-year deal that would allow you to pencil him in at third base. Short sample size be damned; he's the Braves best third baseman since Chipper and remains a perfect No. 2 hitter.

[TheBravos]

1. I could be on board with that, but how many starts does he have left in the season...1 or 2?

2. Sure he is ready now, but smart to try to keep him an extra year when you would be calling him up in a wasted loosing year with no spot for him to take.

3. Maybe you can move him by eating part or most of his salery in the offseason (worth a try).

4. I'm afriad Albies will be traded in the offseason unfortuanately.

5. I'm on board with that, but not sure he would play third base when he will probably have other offers.

[Hulavol]

I ageee with all this. Well thought out, and well said.

[nsacpi]

1) Best practice for young pitchers is to gradually push up the innings. For Soroka, it was 143 last year. I would let him get to 150-160 this year and 180 in 2018.

2) Unfortunately budgetary constraints are real and have an effect on the quality of the team every year. So I would leave Acuna down until May 2018.

3) I'm good with Viz as closer. If we have some decent alternatives for the pen I'd consider releasing Johnson. That does not happen to be the case.

4) Albies has not looked good. But the usual small sample size considerations are in force. His body of work in the minors is a better predictor. Give him a day off if necessary but otherwise keep in lineup.

5) Phillips on a one year (say for 2-3M) makes sense.

[Hudson2]

I think Phillips would come back. He was basically free at the deadline and on waivers and nobody wanted him for some reason. He's had a very good year here. I'd let Soroka finish out since he only has acoupleofstartsleft. Maybe just limit him to 4-5 innings like they've been doing with others.

[rico43]

Total innings make sense on paper, but consider that Soroka has been putting his up in the humid hellhole that is Pearl, Mississippi. He has three starts left, all things being equal. His next will be here in Chattanooga. I'll see for myself!

Small sample size is relevant to Albies, but I see nothing in his game right now that justifies his playing ahead of Camargo.

[depley]

my only problem is with #2 The problem is not if Acuna is ready, it has more to do with the 40 man roster and who will need to be on it so as not to be rule 5 next year. We are currently sitting at 39 on the roster, we have Luiz Gohara, Travis Demeritte, Dustin Peterson, Tyler Pike, and Caleb Dirks all needing to be on the 40 man after the season, probably a couple others as well. We can free up some spots by not offering arby to a few guys and there are a couple that could be just plain DFAed, but there is still a limited amount of space on the 40 man and adding Acuna right now when it is not needed compounds that problem

[thewupk]

Yeah calling Andruw up did work fine. Baseball salaries weren't nearly as absurd as they are now. Braves also had a beast of an owner at that time and could afford literally anything they wanted at the time. I don't see how that situation compare with our current one now.

[msstate7]

Dansby is playing where he needs to be. He's the future at SS, not camargo. Dansby is figuring it out too. Since his return (9 games), he's .300/.400/.467 with 14.3 bb% and 14.3 k%. His bWAR and fWAR were -0.7 when he came back; both are at -0.3 today... not good, but the 0.4 WAR in 9 games is good. He's also the better defender at SS of him and camargo.

Play camargo at 3b if you wanna play him every day.

nsacpi, where's Swanson's ops for our bet right now? I can't ever remember start date

[WaitingFor2017]

Heads need to roll if Snitker plays Camargo over Swanson when he is back. Camargo should just stay a utility guy filling in for guys who need breaks (Albies, Phillips, and whenever Swanson needs a day off).

[WaitingFor2017]

It was so stupid to bring JJ back on a 2-year-deal when you likely could've gotten him back at a 1-year-deal. I think he was signed as soon as last season was over, too. Seeing how disastrous he was once he went to Los Angeles without McDowell, and then to can McDowell, it was an error to bring him back at 5 million a year. He is only a 1 million dollar reliever now (if that).

[GeorgiaGirl]

It was so stupid to bring JJ back on a 2-year-deal when you likely could've gotten him back at a 1-year-deal. I think he was signed as soon as last season was over, too. Seeing how disastrous he was once he went to Los Angeles without McDowell, and then to can McDowell, it was an error to bring him back at 5 million a year. He is only a 1 million dollar reliever now (if that).

I think he was resigned before the season ended and he said he resigned to work with McDowell.

[CyYoung31]

We were also defending a world title when Andruw was called up, so it made sense to put the best team on the field regardless of service time.

Also, I don't see how sitting Albies for the rest of the year helps him at all, especially after only being the majors for two weeks. If they're not worried about service time, then Albies needs to be getting regular ABs in the majors. He's already done all he can in the minors.

[smootness]

Dansby needs to be playing SS every day and Albies needs to be playing 2B every day. Period.

And Acuna needs to be in AAA.

[sturg33]

Heyward and Francouer come to mind as two franchise players who weren't willing to play ball on extensions.

Not sure how many time we have to make the same mistake for people to realize

[CyYoung31]

Dansby needs to be playing SS every day and Albies needs to be playing 2B every day. Period.

And Acuna needs to be in AAA.

/thread

[thethe]

Heyward and Francouer come to mind as two franchise players who weren't willing to play ball on extensions.

Not sure how many time we have to make the same mistake for people to realize

Glad they didn't :)

[mfree80]

Heyward and Francouer come to mind as two franchise players who weren't willing to play ball on extensions.

Not sure how many time we have to make the same mistake for people to realize

It has always been interesting to me that the guys who did take the reasonable extension (Mac and Freddie) turned out to be the better players than those who didn't (Francouer and Heyward). I know the extension didn't define their career, but I wonder if in retrospect they might look back and think that turning that down didn't help their career in the long run (especially Frenchy). Obviously, it hasn't hurt Heyward's earning power, but does that extra few $M really make his career?

Just some musings.

[Horsehide Harry]

1. I think the big concern for all Braves pitching prospects is injury as the innings build up. If they see anything like a bad habit that looks like it is resultant from fatigue then he should be shut down, even if it's just a DL trip to rest. However, as long as injury doesn't appear to be an obvious concern, I would let him pitch even if he struggles a bit. Momma said there would be says like this.

2. I just don't understand this line of thinking. 2017 is gone. Bringing Acuna up now doesn't change that. Who do you sit - Kemp, Markakis, Inciarte? If you are the Braves FO you should want to move both Kemp and Markakis if you can for what you can and you can't begin to do that if they aren't playing everyday. And payroll and cost are real things. The Braves payroll has been highly controlled by an entity that could give a sh*t about baseball. All these don't worry about tomorrow posts will eventually lead to very loud why can't we afford to add so and so as the final needed piece for a WS run posts.

The Andruw comparison doesn't fit either. He was brought up into a pennant and WS chasing team. Acuna would be brought up into a staggering, deranged, leaderless mess of a team destined for at best marginal improvement from a team that was one of the worst in baseball in 2016. Yes, Andruw signed an extension and a pretty team friendly extension but did so only behind the back of his apoplectic agent - Scott Boras. If Andruw wasn't so in love with the Cheetah 3 he probably would have been out the door to the Yankees as Boras had intended.

3. Absolutely crazy to DFA Johnson when you owe him for 2018 anyway. If you want to question the decision to re-sign Johnson in the first place, hey I'm right there with you. That was a stupid move (one of many by the FO and not nearly the worst). But to DFA him and release him and eat his contract...I can't see how that's good business at this point. I mean, he's not Bartolo Colon where the savings on the locker room buffet justifies eating the contract.

4. Albies was rushed. Just like Swanson was rushed. This FO doesn't seem to value complete products over entertainment name value. Maybe that is being dictated by the needs of the new stadium. But, it's bad business in many ways. I think they have to commit themselves now to Swanson at ss and hope to get a Blauser like career out of him. Albies needs to go back to AAA to finish the year, then go to the AFL as you said and re-gain his mojo. Then spend some time, say until about the all star break, in AAA in 2018, working his craft and becoming a more complete ML package.

Put Phillips back at 2B and Camargo at 3B, not a great solution. But it doesn't matter at this point. What matters is what is best for the long term career of Albies and, for the Braves, what he means long term to the team.

5. I wouldn't have an issue with Phillips at 3B for a year, assuming that you go into 2018 knowing you aren't going to compete (which is the appropriate vision but not one I think the FO sees).

[thewupk]

Glad they didn't :)

Agreed. Maybe we will be saying the same thing about Albies, Acuna, and Swanson in the future?


To say that the Braves will extend their future studs because that's what they do is a dumb argument. It's been proven that this is not always the case. Since Furcal's departure the Braves have not extended more people than they have extended that they wanted to.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Uh, the more time prospects spend in AAA, the less likely they are to be studs.

AAA time is needed but a ton of AAA time has been proven to be NOT needed. Better development is needed a heck of a lot more than AAA time. And as it turns out, the Braves absolutely SUCK at developing hitters and really need help NOW with it.

It's not just recently, after the early 00's, almost everyone has disappointed and busted as a Braves hitting prospects.

[The Chosen One]

Twas easier to call up Andruw when we were the #1 payroll in baseball with Ted money.

We're middle to middle-bottom of the pack in payroll now. Have to be a bit more fiscally responsible.

[thewupk]

Twas easier to call up Andruw when we were the #1 payroll in baseball with Ted money.

We're middle to middle-bottom of the pack in payroll now. Have to be a bit more fiscally responsible.

Braves have the same payroll now they did 17 years ago. That's all you really need to know.

Braves FO seems to think they are stuck in the same era as well and don't understand how to operate a team that's in the middle-bottom of payroll.

[Pugfan]

Twas easier to call up Andruw when we were the #1 payroll in baseball with Ted money.

We're middle to middle-bottom of the pack in payroll now. Have to be a bit more fiscally responsible.

Also, the 1996 Braves were really good. Andruw Jones was a monster in Game 1 and 2 of the World Series. The 96 Braves were just a little better than the 2017 team.

[smootness]

Uh, the more time prospects spend in AAA, the less likely they are to be studs.

AAA time is needed but a ton of AAA time has been proven to be NOT needed. Better development is needed a heck of a lot more than AAA time. And as it turns out, the Braves absolutely SUCK at developing hitters and really need help NOW with it.

It's not just recently, after the early 00's, almost everyone has disappointed and busted as a Braves hitting prospects.

Methinks this is a problem of cause and effect. I'm sure the sata shows a negative correlation between time spent in AAA and MLB success. But it is likely because those without as much success in the majors aren't as good and need more time in AAA, not because spending more time in AAA makes MLB success less likely.

[nsacpi]

Dansby is playing where he needs to be. He's the future at SS, not camargo. Dansby is figuring it out too. Since his return (9 games), he's .300/.400/.467 with 14.3 bb% and 14.3 k%. His bWAR and fWAR were -0.7 when he came back; both are at -0.3 today... not good, but the 0.4 WAR in 9 games is good. He's also the better defender at SS of him and camargo.

Play camargo at 3b if you wanna play him every day.

nsacpi, where's Swanson's ops for our bet right now? I can't ever remember start date

he's at .650 since we made the bet in mid-April...he's up from less than .600 when he called back up...

[Deester11]

Dansby needs to be playing SS every day and Albies needs to be playing 2B every day. Period.

And Acuna needs to be in AAA.

Exactly.. An Albies trade is stupid and wanting Dansby there is worse.

[Southcack77]

Methinks this is a problem of cause and effect. I'm sure the sata shows a negative correlation between time spent in AAA and MLB success. But it is likely because those without as much success in the majors aren't as good and need more time in AAA, not because spending more time in AAA makes MLB success less likely.

That would be my working theory as well.

I think talent makes the difference more than anything else -- particularly with a hitter.