View Full Version : Possible BP trade?
thethe
08-31-2017, 06:35 PM
Scratched from lineup
msstate7
08-31-2017, 06:37 PM
This needs to happen. Gotta be camargo and Ruiz at 3b in September
thethe
08-31-2017, 06:38 PM
This needs to happen. Gotta be camargo and Ruiz at 3b in September
This
msstate7
08-31-2017, 06:39 PM
Speaking of camargo, when is he expected back?
zbhargrove
08-31-2017, 06:40 PM
This needs to happen. Gotta be camargo and Ruiz at 3b in September
Nah we should see what we have in Garcia
msstate7
08-31-2017, 06:42 PM
Personal reasons.
Maybe we told him it's gonna be Ruiz starting tomorrow
thethe
08-31-2017, 06:42 PM
Personal reasons.
Party pooper
Party pooper
903405664831197186
Don't give up hope.
Chico
08-31-2017, 06:56 PM
This does smell like a trade and he needs to be traded
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Brandon Phillips deciding whether to accept trade, source tells The Athletic. #Braves talking to #Angels about him, per @JonHeyman.
msstate7
08-31-2017, 07:10 PM
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Brandon Phillips deciding whether to accept trade, source tells The Athletic. #Braves talking to #Angels about him, per @JonHeyman.
1.5 back in wildcard and just got jup... what's he thinking about?
jimsnores
08-31-2017, 07:13 PM
1.5 back in wildcard and just got jup... what's he thinking about?
Yeah, but if they trade him for Trout, the Angels won't be as good.
I appreciate how this went from a 'personal reasons' scratch to a potential trade scratch in less than 20 minutes.
Southcack77
08-31-2017, 07:17 PM
Phillips also would get a half million dollars for agreeing.
He must really hate LA if this is a decision.
Chico
08-31-2017, 07:21 PM
Yeah, but if they trade him for Trout, the Angels won't be as good.
BP is a bit of a lil biatch
He's more high maintenance than the women I dated in my 20's
bravesnumberone
08-31-2017, 07:57 PM
BP is a bit of a lil biatch
He's more high maintenance than the women I dated in my 20's
Wait, they get less high maintenance?
weso1
08-31-2017, 08:19 PM
Hopefully he'll be willing to go since it's just a couple of months at most.
msstate7
08-31-2017, 08:27 PM
Hopefully he'll be willing to go since it's just a couple of months at most.
If I were coppy, I wouldn't care either way. If he says no, tell snit to play Ruiz/camargo anyway
NinersSBChamps
08-31-2017, 08:29 PM
I know people claim Phillips is a poor defender now, but it would be fun to see him and Simmons play the middle of the infield together. If the Braves would have gotten Phillips five years ago we would have been in for amazing defense from two elite defenders.
jcc03004
08-31-2017, 09:13 PM
I know people claim Phillips is a poor defender now, but it would be fun to see him and Simmons play the middle of the infield together. If the Braves would have gotten Phillips five years ago we would have been in for amazing defense from two elite defenders.
If Jup opts out do we go after him again? Already have twice.
Russ2dollas
08-31-2017, 09:54 PM
If Jup opts out do we go after him again? Already have twice.
And play him where?
Oklahomabrave
08-31-2017, 09:54 PM
Rosenthal just tweeted it's happening
sturg33
08-31-2017, 09:55 PM
If Jup opts out do we go after him again? Already have twice.
Nah we gonna pay Kemp/Markakis $29M to platoon
Bravesfannchar
08-31-2017, 09:55 PM
Rosenthal just tweeted it's happening
Yep, just waiting on the return to be announced... Probably cash considerations or Disneyland tickets...
Oklahomabrave
08-31-2017, 09:56 PM
Yep, just waiting on the return to be announced... Probably cash considerations or Disneyland tickets...
I'll just be glad we can play Camargo, Dansby, and Albies everyday.
msstate7
08-31-2017, 09:56 PM
Rosenthal just tweeted it's happening
Ruiz starting at 3b tomorrow?
Russ2dollas
08-31-2017, 09:56 PM
I get the no trade clause. I get wanting to play for the braces.
But this is 500 k to play a month or two. It's not like he has to move his family
Russ2dollas
08-31-2017, 09:57 PM
Ruiz starting at 3b tomorrow?
Comargo.
Russ2dollas
08-31-2017, 09:59 PM
Rosenthal just tweeted it's happening
From the same source that said the front office hates each other?
msstate7
08-31-2017, 09:59 PM
Comargo.
He gonna be back tomorrow?
zbhargrove
08-31-2017, 10:00 PM
We get 29 year old catcher Tony Sanchez.
msstate7
08-31-2017, 10:05 PM
We get 29 year old catcher Tony Sanchez.
We do our best work with catchers over 30, so he's almost ready
Russ2dollas
08-31-2017, 10:06 PM
Phillips was a great pick up.
Saving service time on Ozzie was worth it
But clearing the innings for young guys is more important than the return.
Angels also paying $500K trade bonus.
Sanchez was the 4th overall pick of the draft ... back in 2009.
Enscheff
08-31-2017, 10:18 PM
BP deserves to play for a team in contention. Good for him.
Oklahomabrave
08-31-2017, 10:19 PM
DOB tweeted that Coppy says we will strongly reconsider trying to re-sign Phillips. I really hope he is just being nice
nsacpi
08-31-2017, 10:21 PM
Angels also paying $500K trade bonus.
The FO does seem to have given a high priority on generating savings in various trades. The Garcia trade. I think the Cards picked up a chunk of Adams' contract. Just seems that finances ended up being a bit tighter than expected.
Enscheff
08-31-2017, 10:32 PM
The FO does seem to have given a high priority on generating savings in various trades. The Garcia trade. I think the Cards picked up a chunk of Adams' contract. Just seems that finances ended up being a bit tighter than expected.
Wrong. I have been told by geniuses on this board that the Braves are making a killing with the new ball park, and the Braves will have a Top 10 payroll as soon as next season.
Wrong. I have been told by geniuses on this board that the Braves are making a killing with the new ball park, and the Braves will have a Top 10 payroll as soon as next season.
I'm not a major board contributor, but I'm really tired of reading this.
drewdat
08-31-2017, 10:45 PM
Our ownership has been utter trash since Ted. I will need to see investment in the team commensurate to baseball-related income to believe it.
Bluedevilruss
09-01-2017, 05:39 AM
Wrong. I have been told by geniuses on this board that the Braves are making a killing with the new ball park, and the Braves will have a Top 10 payroll as soon as next season.
Good grief man give it a rest.
striker42
09-01-2017, 06:28 AM
DOB tweeted that Coppy says we will strongly reconsider trying to re-sign Phillips. I really hope he is just being nice
Why? Phillips has been fairly decent and shown he can play third and second. For the right price he'd be a great piece.
bravesnumberone
09-01-2017, 06:45 AM
Thank you BP for your contributions. Not going to dog anyone who loves playing for the Braves like he does.
striker42
09-01-2017, 08:25 AM
Thank you BP for your contributions. Not going to dog anyone who loves playing for the Braves like he does.
Yep. When it takes hours to decide if you want to go to a contender and get an extra half million or play the last month of your contract on a losing team, you really must love playing here.
atl717
09-01-2017, 08:39 AM
Phillips doesn't have the offense for 3B, and player development should be priority. No reason to sign him.
Chico
09-01-2017, 08:59 AM
I don't see Phillips coming back. I think the reason it took so long was BP was making sure he'd be playing 2B before he accepted the trade.
I don't think very highly of Ruiz, but this is a good time to give him some AB's and see what we have in him.
AerchAngel
09-01-2017, 09:21 AM
Phillips doesn't have the offense for 3B, and player development should be priority. No reason to sign him.
Neither does Ruiz or Camargo.
If they can put up .280 to .300 with 15 to 20 dingers is still below what a hot corner should be producing.
clvclv
09-01-2017, 10:02 AM
Happy for BP - he deserves a chance to play for a playoff team - good for him.
Not sure the kids could have had a better vet around to learn from - like him or not, he just does everything the right way. We know the more numerically-inclined could care less about those types of contributions, but it makes a huge difference for the young players, and almost as importantly to the fans.
clvclv
09-01-2017, 10:14 AM
The FO does seem to have given a high priority on generating savings in various trades. The Garcia trade. I think the Cards picked up a chunk of Adams' contract. Just seems that finances ended up being a bit tighter than expected.
Not that we'll ever hear it confirmed either way, but one could also make the argument that trying to gain those savings is simply a smart business decision and that every front office tries to save money whenever possible. You know, since the Angels more or less saved us Albies' salary next season.
Have to be careful when doing that though - wouldn't want to give the brass credit for anything.
clvclv
09-01-2017, 10:17 AM
Phillips doesn't have the offense for 3B, and player development should be priority. No reason to sign him.
Other than the fact that he's better offensively than Ruiz or Camargo?
NinersSBChamps
09-01-2017, 01:15 PM
Phillips doesn't have the offense for 3B, and player development should be priority. No reason to sign him.
I know Phillips doesn't qualify for third base right now, but here are where he would rank if he was eligible:
6th in Batting Average with .291
Tied 11th in Runs scored with 68
3rd in Hits with 137
16th in OBP with .329
26th in HR with 11
Tied 22nd in RBI with 52
Tied 18th in OPS with .753
Enscheff
09-01-2017, 01:29 PM
I'm not a major board contributor, but I'm really tired of reading this.
I get equally tired reading folks claim the payroll will be Top 10. So we're even.
clvclv
09-01-2017, 02:59 PM
I know Phillips doesn't qualify for third base right now, but here are where he would rank if he was eligible:
6th in Batting Average with .291
Tied 11th in Runs scored with 68
3rd in Hits with 137
16th in OBP with .329
26th in HR with 11
Tied 22nd in RBI with 52
Tied 18th in OPS with .753
Pretty tough to imagine Rio or Camargo improving those rankings alone - they might not turn out to be bad as a platoon, but 3B will continue to be a black hole until they go outside of the organization or until Riley or Maitan takes over (assuming they ever do).
Horsehide Harry
09-01-2017, 07:11 PM
I know Phillips doesn't qualify for third base right now, but here are where he would rank if he was eligible:
6th in Batting Average with .291
Tied 11th in Runs scored with 68
3rd in Hits with 137
16th in OBP with .329
26th in HR with 11
Tied 22nd in RBI with 52
Tied 18th in OPS with .753
And there you are ladies and gentlemen. If I had time, which I don't right now, I think it would be interesting to see how each position stacks up.
Freshmaker
09-01-2017, 08:12 PM
We already have an All-Star 3B and his name is Freddie Freeman. /ducks
zitothebrave
09-01-2017, 08:35 PM
Pretty tough to imagine Rio or Camargo improving those rankings alone - they might not turn out to be bad as a platoon, but 3B will continue to be a black hole until they go outside of the organization or until Riley or Maitan takes over (assuming they ever do).
You know what, it's a shame that we didn't have someone like Jose Peraza we could have centered a package to get Todd Frazier with.
zbhargrove
09-01-2017, 08:59 PM
You know what, it's a shame that we didn't have someone like Jose Peraza we could have centered a package to get Todd Frazier with.
Not the biggest Frazier fan, but his skill set would fit really well on our team.
thewupk
09-01-2017, 11:06 PM
It's a limited sample but both UZR and DRS show Phillips has handled 3B better than 2B this year. He is sure handed with the glove and maybe that translates to 3B better at his age since it's obvious he's lost the range he had at 2B in his earlier days.
As far as offense goes. It honestly shouldn't matter what other players are doing at a given position. It's not going to change how Phillips hits. Which is why it's more important to look at the overall package of a player at a particular position and see how that fits in with your team regardless of whether he doesn't hit like a traditional 3B or is your prototypical leadoff hitter, etc. Those don't matter. Putting your best team out there does. Going for the traditional power hitting OF for example is how you get players like Kemp on your team.
With that being said Phillips looks to have rebounded to his ~2 WAR ways and going to 3B has certainly helped that this year. I also find it hard to believe that any combination of Camargo, Ruiz, and Garcia can put up 2 WAR next season. Not saying it's smart to invest in Phillips at market value or it's not smart to "see what we have" in those other guys but it is likely that Phillips provides the most on the field value for whatever that's worth.
zitothebrave
09-02-2017, 05:09 AM
Not the biggest Frazier fan, but his skill set would fit really well on our team.
Downside to Frazier is age. He wouldn't be around for when we're really good. He probably has 2 years of high production if that. Upside is over the last 4 years he's been one of the 10 best 3B in baseball and is getting paid nothing.
zbhargrove
09-02-2017, 08:37 AM
Downside to Frazier is age. He wouldn't be around for when we're really good. He probably has 2 years of high production if that. Upside is over the last 4 years he's been one of the 10 best 3B in baseball and is getting paid nothing.
Agreed, he's a perfect stop gap. Ideal 5 or 6 hitter. Just don't wanna see him more than 2-3 years at the most
zbhargrove
09-02-2017, 08:40 AM
It's a limited sample but both UZR and DRS show Phillips has handled 3B better than 2B this year. He is sure handed with the glove and maybe that translates to 3B better at his age since it's obvious he's lost the range he had at 2B in his earlier days.
As far as offense goes. It honestly shouldn't matter what other players are doing at a given position. It's not going to change how Phillips hits. Which is why it's more important to look at the overall package of a player at a particular position and see how that fits in with your team regardless of whether he doesn't hit like a traditional 3B or is your prototypical leadoff hitter, etc. Those don't matter. Putting your best team out there does. Going for the traditional power hitting OF for example is how you get players like Kemp on your team.
With that being said Phillips looks to have rebounded to his ~2 WAR ways and going to 3B has certainly helped that this year. I also find it hard to believe that any combination of Camargo, Ruiz, and Garcia can put up 2 WAR next season. Not saying it's smart to invest in Phillips at market value or it's not smart to "see what we have" in those other guys but it is likely that Phillips provides the most on the field value for whatever that's worth.
I'd say Camargo could if he continues to develop more pop. He should also be excellent at 3rd defensively. Still platooning will hurt the WAR. Still think the Ruiz Camargo platoon would easily eclipse BP WAR
thewupk
09-02-2017, 01:00 PM
I'd say Camargo could if he continues to develop more pop. He should also be excellent at 3rd defensively. Still platooning will hurt the WAR. Still think the Ruiz Camargo platoon would easily eclipse BP WAR
I'd be hard pressed to say a platoon of Camargo/Ruiz could easily eclipse ~2 WAR. If they could then great but I 1) have doubts about their talent to do this and 2) have faith our team would properly utilize that
chop2chip
09-02-2017, 01:08 PM
I'd be hard pressed to say a platoon of Camargo/Ruiz could easily eclipse ~2 WAR. If they could then great but I 1) have doubts about their talent to do this and 2) have faith our team would properly utilize that
I agree with point (2). The only platoon I can think of the team has managed well since the rebuild is Suzuki and Flowers.
thewupk
09-02-2017, 01:13 PM
I agree with point (2). The only platoon I can think of the team has managed well since the rebuild is Suzuki and Flowers.
The catching situation has been amazing. That and the BP trade have been the two best moves Coppy has made at the major league level since the Ender/Miller trade
clvclv
09-02-2017, 02:44 PM
I'd be hard pressed to say a platoon of Camargo/Ruiz could easily eclipse ~2 WAR. If they could then great but I 1) have doubts about their talent to do this and 2) have faith our team would properly utilize that
Do kinda wonder though that if Riley can "keep on keepin' on" whether a Ruiz/Riley platoon might be pretty solid late next season and beyond though.
chop2chip
09-02-2017, 03:31 PM
Do kinda wonder though that if Riley can "keep on keepin' on" whether a Ruiz/Riley platoon might be pretty solid late next season and beyond though.
Ask yourself if you would be happy if the Braves traded for players like Ruiz and Riley to fill their 3B hole. I wouldn't.
Riley and Ruiz are fine back up options if your plan A blows up (e.g., I wish we had a Ruiz/Riley type instead of Elliot Johnson), but there is nothing about their minor league history that suggests you plan your future lineup with them in it.
MadduxFanII
09-02-2017, 04:08 PM
This seems pretty straight-forward to me. Opening Day next year:
3B- Camargo
SS- Swanson
2B- Albies
Phillips would be a perfect bench guy/insurance policy if he's down with that role. In no way should we bring back Brandon Phillips to be a starter next year.
If there's some top-notch, controllable third baseman we can acquire in the off-season, then by all means. But go into next season with those three young guys and you've got:
A. Upside
B. An interesting group of players to watch
C. A chance to learn about all three, especially Camargo
No need to overthink this.
Enscheff
09-02-2017, 04:13 PM
I wonder....
How long will it take the Braves to figure out Camargo is a utility player? 200 more PAs? 600 more PAs? 2 more full seasons?
chop2chip
09-02-2017, 04:33 PM
I wonder....
How long will it take the Braves to figure out Camargo is a utility player? 200 more PAs? 600 more PAs? 2 more full seasons?
Hopefully less time than it's taking to realize that Jace isn't a utility player.
thethe
09-02-2017, 04:41 PM
I wonder....
How long will it take the Braves to figure out Camargo is a utility player? 200 more PAs? 600 more PAs? 2 more full seasons?
What would you guess his WAR would be with 500 ABS next years?
Enscheff
09-02-2017, 05:31 PM
What would you guess his WAR would be with 500 ABS next years?
Less than half of what you think he would produce
clvclv
09-02-2017, 08:36 PM
Ask yourself if you would be happy if the Braves traded for players like Ruiz and Riley to fill their 3B hole. I wouldn't.
Riley and Ruiz are fine back up options if your plan A blows up (e.g., I wish we had a Ruiz/Riley type instead of Elliot Johnson), but there is nothing about their minor league history that suggests you plan your future lineup with them in it.
As the biggest "sign Moustakas" guy here, that's fairly obvious. Of course, the loudest group around this board would prefer continuing to keep kicking the can down the road.
I understand that, but if you're not a Riley believer, my question is how do you expect to plug the hole over there before Maitan arrives (assuming he does)?
If you assume that Maitan is at least 4 years away, surely you won't be happy if "the answer" at 3B for the next 4 years is Camargo - I like him as much as the next guy, but if you believe he's capable of being an everyday MLB 3B, you're nuts IMO. He's the perfect example of a SSS/high BABIP guy who's never shown more power than Ruiz, and less power than Riley.
I'd even consider a Folty for McMahon or trade for Profar deal before I'd want to try that.
nsacpi
09-02-2017, 08:39 PM
As the biggest "sign Moustakas" guy here, that's fairly obvious. Of course, the loudest group around this board would prefer continuing to keep kicking the can down the road.
I understand that, but if you're not a Riley believer, my question is how do you expect to plug the hole over there before Maitan arrives (assuming he does)?
If you assume that Maitan is at least 4 years away, surely you won't be happy if "the answer" at 3B for the next 4 years is Camargo - I like him as much as the next guy, but if you believe he's capable of being an everyday MLB 3B, you're nuts IMO.
I'd even consider a Folty for McMahon or trade for Profar deal before I'd want to try that.
i think we will eventually have to go outside the organization for a third baseman...but i don't see this as urgent...i'd be good with going with the internal options next year even though the odds are less than 50% they will turn out to be satisfactory
50PoundHead
09-02-2017, 08:51 PM
He may or not pan out at the big league level, but I think it's important to note that Austin Riley is only 20 years old. In a perfect world, he would spend all of 2018 in Gwinnett (provided he makes that team out of spring training). He's still a work in progress.
Enscheff
09-02-2017, 10:52 PM
There will be some FA equivalent to Mous for the Braves to overpay at 3b when they are actually going to be good. Let's wait until then to pay market value for a guy to play 3b, mmkay?
thethe
09-03-2017, 05:09 AM
Less than half of what you think he would produce
OK then I'll go. I think Camargo will be a 2 WAR guy given the opportunity.
Horsehide Harry
09-03-2017, 11:20 AM
When did we as a fanbase become satisfied with "interesting to watch."
As the man says you "play to win the game."
And to win the game, you have to set yourself up in a position to do so.
The interesting to watch attitude is akin to the lousy recruiting excuses in college football - "give me 11 guys who want to wear the ________ jersey and who love ________." And then everyone sits around wondering why they get buzz sawed.
zbhargrove
09-03-2017, 11:22 AM
I'd be hard pressed to say a platoon of Camargo/Ruiz could easily eclipse ~2 WAR. If they could then great but I 1) have doubts about their talent to do this and 2) have faith our team would properly utilize that
Can't argue with your second point
zbhargrove
09-03-2017, 11:23 AM
There will be some FA equivalent to Mous for the Braves to overpay at 3b when they are actually going to be good. Let's wait until then to pay market value for a guy to play 3b, mmkay?
I'm on board with that.
zbhargrove
09-03-2017, 11:24 AM
Ask yourself if you would be happy if the Braves traded for players like Ruiz and Riley to fill their 3B hole. I wouldn't.
Riley and Ruiz are fine back up options if your plan A blows up (e.g., I wish we had a Ruiz/Riley type instead of Elliot Johnson), but there is nothing about their minor league history that suggests you plan your future lineup with them in it.
I don't have a ton of confidence in Riley, but come on... he's 20 in AA... and holding his own. The jury is still out.
clvclv
09-03-2017, 01:07 PM
I don't have a ton of confidence in Riley, but come on... he's 20 in AA... and holding his own. The jury is still out.
He's doing better than "holding his own" at that age and level - but like everyone else, I'd like to see more. If the "target year" is 2019, you've got Freeman, Inciarte, Albies, and more-than-likely Acuna as better than average MLB players. Dansby's likely to be average to a tick above. To be a legitimate contender, the pitching is going to have to improve immensely (from within as well as potentially bringing in a piece from outside) and we're going to need league-average and power contributions (at the very least) from 3B and LF - and we're a long way from getting that at this point.
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