Where have the trick pitches gone?

[Horsehide Harry]

I was thinking the other day that we aren't seeing the predominance of "trick pitches" that we used to see.

Where are the guys that throw the splitter? Or the screwball? Or the knuckle-curve (still a few around)? Or the palm ball?

Even the change-up at one time had about a billion variations. And the cutter doesn't seem to be as popular as it was...

Is it just the teachers like Roger Craig are dieing out or being shuffled out of baseball or is their something else like some kind of definitive medical study that says FB, CB, CH and an occasional slider is all a guy should throw?

In days past, a pitcher who's "stuff" doesn't quite play could possibly learn one of those pitches to change his entire career. I was thinking guys like Wisler, Blair, Sims, etc. might benefit from some of that....

[BeanieAntics]

I was thinking the other day that we aren't seeing the predominance of "trick pitches" that we used to see.

Where are the guys that throw the splitter? Or the screwball? Or the knuckle-curve (still a few around)? Or the palm ball?

Even the change-up at one time had about a billion variations. And the cutter doesn't seem to be as popular as it was...

Is it just the teachers like Roger Craig are dieing out or being shuffled out of baseball or is their something else like some kind of definitive medical study that says FB, CB, CH and an occasional slider is all a guy should throw?

In days past, a pitcher who's "stuff" doesn't quite play could possibly learn one of those pitches to change his entire career. I was thinking guys like Wisler, Blair, Sims, etc. might benefit from some of that....

You are gonna love Brent Honeywell when he comes up.

[striker42]

I think there's something to be said for the somewhat hazy lines between pitches. When is a cutter a true cutter and when is it a four seam fastball that has some cutting movement to it? When is it just a hard slider?

Some pitches have fallen off due to injury concerns. IIRC, both the splitter and screwball have a reputation as being bad for the elbow and so pitchers are warned away from them.

The changeup still has a lot of variations. There are a ton of different grips guys use. Everything from a circle change to the vulcan grip used by Gant.

[nsacpi]

I see someone already mentioned that John Gant throws the Vulcan. One of the reasons I liked him, in addition to his zany body language on the mound. I have a sentimental attachment to the Vulcan. Taught both of my sons how to throw it. Well I worked with them on the grip. I don't know that they ever mastered it.

[thewupk]

I think there's something to be said for the somewhat hazy lines between pitches. When is a cutter a true cutter and when is it a four seam fastball that has some cutting movement to it? When is it just a hard slider?

Some pitches have fallen off due to injury concerns. IIRC, both the splitter and screwball have a reputation as being bad for the elbow and so pitchers are warned away from them.

The changeup still has a lot of variations. There are a ton of different grips guys use. Everything from a circle change to the vulcan grip used by Gant.

The splitter is my favorite pitch partially due to Smoltz having a great one and owning people all day long with it. Sadly it caused him injury issues here and there. Clemens had a great splitter as well. Might be that I don't follow MLB as a whole as I used to but I can't really recall anyone since those two that have had that good of a split finger pitch.

[BeanieAntics]

I think there's something to be said for the somewhat hazy lines between pitches. When is a cutter a true cutter and when is it a four seam fastball that has some cutting movement to it? When is it just a hard slider?

Some pitches have fallen off due to injury concerns. IIRC, both the splitter and screwball have a reputation as being bad for the elbow and so pitchers are warned away from them.

The changeup still has a lot of variations. There are a ton of different grips guys use. Everything from a circle change to the vulcan grip used by Gant.

I'm not sure about the splitter, but I've heard that the worry over the screwball is unfounded. I've seen several doctors say that a properly thrown screwball isn't any worse than any other breaking ball. Its just a natural instinct among baseball people to see that arm action and assume its bad for the arm. I could be totally off on this, but I am fairly certain that I have read some research regarding it a few years back.

[Enscheff]

The splitter is my favorite pitch partially due to Smoltz having a great one and owning people all day long with it. Sadly it caused him injury issues here and there. Clemens had a great splitter as well. Might be that I don't follow MLB as a whole as I used to but I can't really recall anyone since those two that have had that good of a split finger pitch.

Sam Freeman uses his splitter as a good change up.

[Russ2dollas]

I think with specialization and giant pitching staffs everyone is going for pure stuff. It's crazy velocity. It's FB and sliders.

[jpx7]

In the same vein, I feel like the number of side-armers and submariners has plummeted in this decade, as well.

[The Chosen One]

The splitter is my favorite pitch partially due to Smoltz having a great one and owning people all day long with it. Sadly it caused him injury issues here and there. Clemens had a great splitter as well. Might be that I don't follow MLB as a whole as I used to but I can't really recall anyone since those two that have had that good of a split finger pitch.

Schilling. Although I'm not sure if that was closer to a Forkball than splitter. I remember in AZ he had cuts on the inside of his index and middle fingers due to the fork.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

I seriously doubt there is a large enough sample within a team to have a study on likelihood of injury, so I would guess the changes in pitching style would be based on assumptions of injury (screwball) or anecdotes (Smoltz was injured by the splitter).

[thewupk]

Schilling. Although I'm not sure if that was closer to a Forkball than splitter. I remember in AZ he had cuts on the inside of his index and middle fingers due to the fork.

Schilling's was good. However he retired the same year as Clemens and two years before Smoltz. So I wouldn't say Schilling came after those two.

[thewupk]

I think with specialization and giant pitching staffs everyone is going for pure stuff. It's crazy velocity. It's FB and sliders.

I'd agree with this. Hard, harder, hardest is the way pitching is going. For better or worse.

[The Chosen One]

Schilling's was good. However he retired the same year as Clemens and two years before Smoltz. So I wouldn't say Schilling came after those two.

Well he emerged onto the scene after those two. That's what I thought you meant when you said after them. NVM he arrived same year as Smoltz. But didn't become a star until after those two.

[thewupk]

Well he emerged onto the scene after those two. That's what I thought you meant when you said after them.

You thought wrong mother****er.

[nsacpi]

Tanaka throws a splitter. He used it a lot more in his first season with the Yankees. After the partial tear in his UCL he scaled back usage of it.

[The Chosen One]

Which reminds me Darvish does throw a splitter too.

Dickey is a knuckler but he isn't like Sparks-Wakefield knuckler.

Has anyone thrown the knuckle-curve since Mussina? How about Screwball since Franco?

[Knucksie]

An occasional Ephus pitch carries tremendous entertainment value.

[Russ2dollas]

I'd agree with this. Hard, harder, hardest is the way pitching is going. For better or worse.

I have wondered about palm balls with this....

If you can't throw a change b/c you don't have the feel, could you just up the friction at release and get enough decrease in velocity to have a blah third pitch? The Braves have a couple of guys who need something soft vs the opposite side hitters. Could you just choke up on the ball and throw your fastball and get positive results?

[BeanieAntics]

Which reminds me Darvish does throw a splitter too.

Dickey is a knuckler but he isn't like Sparks-Wakefield knuckler.

Has anyone thrown the knuckle-curve since Mussina? How about Screwball since Franco?

Honeywell is coming up with a screwball. Phil Hughes currently throws a knuckle curve. I think lots of relievers us it as well

[striker42]

Doesn't Kimbrel throw a knuckle curve?

[striker42]

An occasional Ephus pitch carries tremendous entertainment value.

I love seeing someone throw an ephus. You'd think you'd have AAAA quality players or washed up vets trying to perfect pitches like that more than you do. If you can master a trick pitch you can scrape together a year or two in the majors.

[JxnMissFan]

I love seeing someone throw an ephus. You'd think you'd have AAAA quality players or washed up vets trying to perfect pitches like that more than you do. If you can master a trick pitch you can scrape together a year or two in the majors.

I think kershaw has thrown a few ephus pitches. I would love to see someone like chapman or Thor perfect an ephus pitch. Could you imagine the entertainment value of a guy sitting on the 100 mph FB but swinging at the 55 mph ephus

[jcc03004]

I thought Folty threw a knuckle curve at least he does on the show lol

[JxnMissFan]

We talk about these pitches going away because to injury concerns but I always wonder if velocity is the biggest cause of pitcher injury. Pitching staffs are bigger than ever, guys throw less pitches but the injury rates is as high as ever.

[BeanieAntics]

I think kershaw has thrown a few ephus pitches. I would love to see someone like chapman or Thor perfect an ephus pitch. Could you imagine the entertainment value of a guy sitting on the 100 mph FB but swinging at the 55 mph ephus

I've always wondered why there wasn't one power pitcher who thought learning a knuckleball would help him. I know that mechanically throwing a knuckleball can be different, but damn a guy that threw 97 with a good changeup, curve, and knuckleball would be devastating. You older guys correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Louis Tiant throw the occasional knuckleball?

[steveAKAslick]

Not sure about the others but the slurve is supposedly notorious on elbows

[CyYoung31]

The splitter is my favorite pitch partially due to Smoltz having a great one and owning people all day long with it. Sadly it caused him injury issues here and there. Clemens had a great splitter as well. Might be that I don't follow MLB as a whole as I used to but I can't really recall anyone since those two that have had that good of a split finger pitch.

Tim Hudson.

[CyYoung31]

If I were a pitcher trying to make a career out of it, I would master throwing the change up and two seamer to compliment my straight fast ball, a la Greg Maddux. Maddux threw a curve too, but it was his 4th pitch, not his 1st or 2nd. I think you could almost guarantee yourself a nice, long, healthy career if you just didn't rely heavily on breaking pitches.

[steveAKAslick]

If I were a pitcher trying to make a career out of it, I would master throwing the change up and two seamer to compliment my straight fast ball, a la Greg Maddux. Maddux threw a curve too, but it was his 4th pitch, not his 1st or 2nd. I think you could almost guarantee yourself a nice, long, healthy career if you just didn't rely heavily on breaking pitches.

23 seasons and only 15 days on the DL...that’s pretty damn impressive

[thewupk]

Tim Hudson.

I should have remembered that. Thanks.