So the question is this....

[TheBravos]

I don't know why we would try to sign or trade for a vet pitcher IF things pan out the way it seems it will.
5 Spots
1. Folty: Up and down but has shown enough that it would be shocking if he wasn't in the rotation.
2. Julio: Has pitched better as of late and probably can't get much value for him via trade...he'll be here.
3. Gohora: Young big lefty...you have to give him a full year to develop before making any decisions (I think he will stick)
4. Newcomb: Same with Newk....he needs a full year of development(not sure he makes it).
5. Fried: I want Fried to get the same look as the two above (I could flip a coin on if he makes it).

Now on top of that, you have Dickey that could be a long man and slip right into the rotation if one of the young guys implode. You also could throw Sims in there for spot starts.

Here is the biggest point besides these young arms needing experience. By the trade deadline we could have Soroka, Allard, Wright and Touki knocking the door down. Weigel could be in the mix by the end of the year. For the next three years, we will have multiple arms ready to be called up. I don't know how we get MLB experience for all these guys even if some are traded, and really...who would you feel good about trading out of that bunch this early? By next trade deadline, I figure out of Gohora, Folty, Newk and Fried....whoever fails....just plug in the next prospect(s) who have earned it.

To me, with all the nice arms coming up...let it be an open competition. If we start trading half of them, we could very well trade some of the keepers. Sure if there was a Sale type "true ace" guy out there maybe, but there isn't. Fuller (arm may fall off) or Archer (I have great stuff but also a big ERA)...no thanks. Start the best five and trade the ones AFTER they fail (not before). Keep a cheap rotation and put some more money into the offense. Scoring more runs will take pressure off the young pitchers.

[Enscheff]

Gohara needs to work on his change, and he needs to work on it in AAA. There is no reason to waste the service time of a 21 year old so he can refine something he can work on at AAA. If he were 23 or 24 it would be different.

The 2018 rotation needs to be Teheran, Folty, Newk, Fried and either Dickey (if they are punting) or some other FA (if they are trying to be better). Newk and Fried need to be in the rotation to either prove they belong, or are BP arms.

[thethe]

What is your mechanism for calling up Gohara if the other 5 pitch well?

[nsacpi]

What is your mechanism for calling up Gohara if the other 5 pitch well?
injuries, poor performance, etc etc...we can't predict the exact details but in a typical season teams will give 8 starters 10 or more starts

[Oklahomabrave]

Gohara needs to work on his change, and he needs to work on it in AAA. There is no reason to waste the service time of a 21 year old so he can refine something he can work on at AAA. If he were 23 or 24 it would be different.

The 2018 rotation needs to be Teheran, Folty, Newk, Fried and either Dickey (if they are punting) or some other FA (if they are trying to be better). Newk and Fried need to be in the rotation to either prove they belong, or are BP arms.
I don't disagree but I'll be surprised if he doesn't start in the rotation.

[thethe]

injuries, poor performance, etc etc...we can't predict the exact details but in a typical season teams will give 8 starters 10 or more starts

Would that happen in April? May? I agree those events will happen but it's risky IMO to keep a guy like Gohara in AAA when every baseball fan knows he deserves to be in the big leagues.

[Oklahomabrave]

Also, I don't think all those guys you listed will still be Braves by opening day. This FO is probably gearing up for some aqusitions.

[nsacpi]

Would that happen in April? May? I agree those events will happen but it's risky IMO to keep a guy like Gohara in AAA when every baseball fan knows he deserves to be in the big leagues.details not known at this point

[nsacpi]

also we can always trade away starting pitching as we have done with Garcia, Chacin and Norris the past couple years

[thethe]

also we can always trade away starting pitching as we have done with Garcia, Chacin and Norris the past couple years

I dont think they want to trade any of those pitchers until the trading dealing 2018 at the earliest. Allard/Soroka/Wright need at least 4 more months in the minors.

[msstate7]

The topic of gohara starting the year at AAA is certainly a good debate, but it's a futile exercise... gohara will start the year as an Atlanta brave

[TheBravos]

Also, I don't think all those guys you listed will still be Braves by opening day. This FO is probably gearing up for some aqusitions.

Acquire who exactly? What pitcher is worth the cost acquiring ? Only other spot we would upgrade is 3rd base.

[nsacpi]

The topic of gohara starting the year at AAA is certainly a good debate, but it's a futile exercise... gohara will start the year as an Atlanta brave
u sure about that one?

[TheBravos]

The topic of gohara starting the year at AAA is certainly a good debate, but it's a futile exercise... gohara will start the year as an Atlanta brave

I think you are right. Already on the 40
Man....he'll be there.

[msstate7]

u sure about that one?

Pretty sure.

Teheran
Folty
FA
Newcomb
Gohara

Or...

Teheran
FA
FA
Gohara
Newcomb/folty (other in the pen)

[Enscheff]

What is your mechanism for calling up Gohara if the other 5 pitch well?

If there are no injuries and Newk and Fried figure it out, the Braves trade the FA.

I find it extremely unlikely a spot for Gohara won't open up organically in a couple months.

[Oklahomabrave]

Acquire who exactly? What pitcher is worth the cost acquiring ? Only other spot we would upgrade is 3rd base.

Not sure whoever we acquire will be worth the cost. I just have a strong belief the execs will push for a better team, but I'm open to being wrong.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Gohara needs to work on his change, and he needs to work on it in AAA. There is no reason to waste the service time of a 21 year old so he can refine something he can work on at AAA. If he were 23 or 24 it would be different.

The 2018 rotation needs to be Teheran, Folty, Newk, Fried and either Dickey (if they are punting) or some other FA (if they are trying to be better). Newk and Fried need to be in the rotation to either prove they belong, or are BP arms.
Per usual, agree with you on rotation. I want to give Fried a shot. He used to be a great prospect.

[TheBravos]

Not sure whoever we acquire will be worth the cost. I just have a strong belief the execs will push for a better team, but I'm open to being wrong.

You are probably right. I have a feeling there I will be feeling sick more than once this offseason lol. They are in a perfect position if they make the right moves and don't force things.

[Chico]

The ony thing I feel certain about is Allard, Soroka, and Wright are ones we want to come up and stick when they're ready. Soroka and wright even moreso than Allard. How we shuffle everyone else until that time is to be determined and there are a lot of ways we can go with this. If it were me I'd be looking to add 2 legit starters to team with Julio, Folty, and Newcomb to form a solid major league rotation and have a killer AAA rotation. The word would be out if you don't want one of these kids to take your spot then you better earn it. I'd flip Julio in the first half if he has a good season. I'd demote Newk o Folty to the pen if they do not do well and someone else is showing they deserve to be called up. I'd flip someone we just acquired if it made sense and we got more than we gave up.

I know people have said that they're worried about everyone getting their fair share, but I think what this FO wants is that exact problem. If we have 10 quality starters between Atlanta and Gwinette come June with a couple more in AA not far behind then we'll be the prettiest girl at the ball with all kind of options

[nsacpi]

Gohara should be given 10-15 more starts in AAA. Fried too.

[Southcack77]

If the Major League staff is pitching well, I don't really care about creating spots for young pitchers. They are all young enough to find things to work on in AAA.

I will be very surprised if Gohara is not in the opening day rotation given that he's shown the most of the young starters. I would not be shocked to see them pick up one or two starters and trade some of the others.

I don't know what the right moves are, but it is really about producing a rotation now and going forward not validating prospects.

[clvclv]

If the Major League staff is pitching well, I don't really care about creating spots for young pitchers. They are all young enough to find things to work on in AAA.

I will be very surprised if Gohara is not in the opening day rotation given that he's shown the most of the young starters. I would not be shocked to see them pick up one or two starters and trade some of the others.

I don't know what the right moves are, but it is really about producing a rotation now and going forward not validating prospects.


Can't disagree with any of that in the least, but won't argue that a little more time to work on things early on would hurt him.

Maybe sign Cobb and pick up Dickey's option and dangle Folty for a Suarez/McMahon/Andujar and start the season with Julio/Cobb/Dickey/Newcomb/Fried or Sims until Gohara can have a little more time to smooth out the rough edges plus make managing his innings a little easier?

[Tapate50]

I'm not sure Folty gets you any of those guys straight up. Or really even close to it...

[clvclv]

I'm not sure Folty gets you any of those guys straight up. Or really even close to it...

I'm not either, just spitballing (as usual).

[Nerfherders]

I've seen enough of Folty that I wouldn't be sad to see him go. With the offense that this team will produce, I think it would be a waste not to try to bolster the rotation with outside help, somehow. It is the weak link in the chain at the moment.

[nsacpi]

I've seen enough of Folty that I wouldn't be sad to see him go. With the offense that this team will produce, I think it would be a waste not to try to bolster the rotation with outside help, somehow. It is the weak link in the chain at the moment.

Yes it is. And when that great day arrives when we have too many major league starting pitchers, I don't think it will be difficult finding trade partners.

[Enscheff]

Gohara should be given 10-15 more starts in AAA. Fried too.

Fried is old enough that I an fine letting him figure it out at the MLB level.

Gohara is in a completely different league in terms of age, and ultimately, upside. If he is in the opening day rotation it is yet another indication the members of the FO are on the hot seat to win.

[clvclv]

I'm not sure Folty gets you any of those guys straight up. Or really even close to it...

As bad as things are in Cincinnati, they're likely our best target IMO - with an obvious replacement for Suarez ready, Votto and Bailey on the books, Hamilton's salary about to start going up, and an absolute dearth of arms in the system the likelihood of them going out and signing a couple arms for their rotation is pretty slim. Even if they were to get DeSclafani and Finnegan back healthy, their rotation is easily the worst in the game.

[Chico]

Yes it is. And when that great day arrives when we have too many major league starting pitchers, I don't think it will be difficult finding trade partners.

Agreed. I look at is as buying prospects. If I can sign a guy that allows me to trade another guy I just bought prospects. Another way is trading prospects for prospects. If I trade prospects for a pitcher that allows me to trade another pitcher for prospects I just reshuffled my prospect pool. That part is a little more tricky though as you better guess right.

If Yu Darvish wasn't so expensive I'd entertain the idea of signing him and Cobb, then trade Julio and Folty when the time was right to restock my prospect pool.

[TheBravos]

I realize guys like Folty and Newk might not make it, but hate to diminish their value by sending them to the pen. I'd rather just trade guys that aren't cutting it while they still have value. We waited too long on guys like Wisler and now he wouldn't bring back a bag of balls.

[Chico]

I realize guys like Folty and Newk might not make it, but hate to diminish their value by sending them to the pen. I'd rather just trade guys that aren't cutting it while they still have value. We waited too long on guys like Wisler and now he wouldn't bring back a bag of balls.

That's true, but Wisler didn't have the ceiling these 2 have. I think there's a good chance both of these guys could have a good season next year. I'm not sure we get fair value on either this offseason though. Ideally, I'd like to see us trade Julio this June/July after he rebuilds his value and flip Folty next June/July. If we had the pitchers to promote as well as the pitchers to sell we could be set if we play those cards right.

[BeanieAntics]

Agreed. I look at is as buying prospects. If I can sign a guy that allows me to trade another guy I just bought prospects. Another way is trading prospects for prospects. If I trade prospects for a pitcher that allows me to trade another pitcher for prospects I just reshuffled my prospect pool. That part is a little more tricky though as you better guess right.

If Yu Darvish wasn't so expensive I'd entertain the idea of signing him and Cobb, then trade Julio and Folty when the time was right to restock my prospect pool.

I'm not sure Julio and Folty would really net enough at the moment to make it worth it. It would probably be better to hope that they can build their value back up and then work from there.

[Chico]

I'm not sure Julio and Folty would really net enough at the moment to make it worth it. It would probably be better to hope that they can build their value back up and then work from there.

Agreed. That's why I set when the time was right. Hopefully the time would be when they rebuild their value and we have someone who is telling us he's ready to be in a major league rotation. None of Gohara, Fried, Allard, Soroka, Wright are telling us that now, but hopefully they will be starting at the 2018 trade deadline.

[rico43]

You have a veteran pitcher. His name is Julio Teheran.

[rico43]

Gohara should be given 10-15 more starts in AAA. Fried too.

The Washington Nationals would certainly appreciate that.

[TheBravos]

I just think when you sign a vet to big money or trading for one....you run a big risk of them underperforming (as many big contract guys do), or getting hurt. Keep all the young guys and let it be a competition. The guys that win the jobs...win the jobs. By trading pitcher x and keeping pitcher x ....you are "choosing" which one gets the job. It should be earned. You guys want high end pitchers that are also not scared of any situation. You find that out by testing them.

Many times these pitchers get their "big" deal, they relax and get tourched. Not all, but more than not. Give me a hungry young guy that has everything to prove, and is still needing cash. Motivation has many factors.

[nsacpi]

I just think when you sign a vet to big money or trading for one....you run a big risk of them underperforming (as many big contract guys do), or getting hurt.

Yes. Acquiring veterans is not a risk free proposition. However, we go into the off-season with about 20M to play with. Some may say find a way to bank that for the future. There are ways to do that and we have done so in recent years. But I think the reality of the situation is the FO no longer sees the rebuild as being at that stage. So the 20M (and maybe more if we can get some team to take Markakis and/or Kemp and a chunk of their contracts off our hands) will be spent on major league talent.

The question then becomes what is the wisest use of those funds within the parameter that they are to be used to pay the salaries of major league talent.

[jpx7]

The Washington Nationals would certainly appreciate that.

Let them appreciate it; the Braves won't be competing with the Zombie Expos next season, anyways, so matchups really shouldn't figure into roster decisions.

[steveAKAslick]

I just think when you sign a vet to big money or trading for one....you run a big risk of them underperforming (as many big contract guys do), or getting hurt. Keep all the young guys and let it be a competition. The guys that win the jobs...win the jobs. By trading pitcher x and keeping pitcher x ....you are "choosing" which one gets the job. It should be earned. You guys want high end pitchers that are also not scared of any situation. You find that out by testing them.

Many times these pitchers get their "big" deal, they relax and get tourched. Not all, but more than not. Give me a hungry young guy that has everything to prove, and is still needing cash. Motivation has many factors.

This is the camp I’m in...when guys are deemed ready and there’s a particular pitcher in the rotation that’s struggling and doesn’t seem like he’s destined for the rotation plug a guy in...eventually in theory you’d end up with the five best guys and also should have a pretty nice pen...certain guys could be traded as well, I just hate the idea of trading an Allard, Touki, Anderson, Wentz, etc before seeing what they can do in the big leagues or upper minors

[TheBravos]

This is the camp I’m in...when guys are deemed ready and there’s a particular pitcher in the rotation that’s struggling and doesn’t seem like he’s destined for the rotation plug a guy in...eventually in theory you’d end up with the five best guys and also should have a pretty nice pen...certain guys could be traded as well, I just hate the idea of trading an Allard, Touki, Anderson, Wentz, etc before seeing what they can do in the big leagues or upper minors

Yeah, because of those four guys at least two likely fail. Who do you pick between Allard, Touki or Wentz ? I think even many scouts could make the wrong choice. Let the guy who wins the job...win the job. Anything else is a professional guess.

Take the $20 and sign a 3rd baseman or any big hole (besides starting pitching). I know our pitching hasn’t been great, but you take out the Colons, JJ’s and Brother’s type off the team and the ERA looks better (even with younger guys struggling). It’s crazy that guys like Morris sit in AAA.