Guess the penalty

[Hudson2]

Let’s see who gets closest to guessing what penalty is handed down.

I’ll say we lose most of the J2 signing class from this year and maybe a couple from Maitan’s signing period.
And a fine of like 5 million bucks.

Maitan i think would be way to harsh of a penalty since he has been in the system for over a year already and i hope we don’t lose the 8th pick either.

[thewupk]

Maitan, 2017 J2 class, and 2018 1st round pick

[Hawk]

Maitan, 2017 J2 class, and 2018 1st round pick

wow

[thewupk]

wow

Gotta prepare for the worst

[Hudson2]

Maitan, 2017 J2 class, and 2018 1st round pick

Man that would absolutely suck

[Carp]

International limitations for next 2 years and forfeiture of 2018 first round pick.

[weso1]

Ten minute time out and no candy for a week.

[chop2chip]

Kemp and Markakis

[CyYoung31]

Kemp and Markakis

That would really cripple our future. We wouldn’t have any more protected picks.

[Hudson2]

Kemp and Markakis

So you’re saying they would add another year to each ones deals? I’d rather lose Maitan and the pick..

[Enscheff]

A few guys from the last J2 class, restricted from signing international players for 2 years, and fined a few million bucks.

[Hudson2]

A few guys from the last J2 class, restricted from signing international players for 2 years, and fined a few million bucks.

That would be perfect

[chop2chip]

A few guys from the last J2 class, restricted from signing international players for 2 years, and fined a few million bucks.

This is where I stand as well. I don’t think we lose Maitan or the 8th pick.

At the end of the day, MLB isn’t in a position where they want to materially harm one of their properties.

[bravesfanMatt]

Half of J2 last year. One year ban on international signing with two year probation after that. Fine of 4.8 million

If they nuke us, I hope they go after every team in baseball. The international market is nothing but a bunch of back room deals and shady gamesmanship

[Chipper]

I think it will be a big fine and loss of future picks. I don't think they will take away players that are already signed.

[msstate7]

2 more years post season ban, 30 scholarships, and some vacated wins... just like ole miss. Pretty sad we’ve become the Rebels of mlb

[bravesfanMatt]

2 more years post season ban, 30 scholarships, and some vacated wins... just like ole miss. Pretty sad we’ve become the Rebels of mlb

Can they vacate some of last year wins and move us up in draft!!

[50PoundHead]

2 more years post season ban, 30 scholarships, and some vacated wins... just like ole miss. Pretty sad we’ve become the Rebels of mlb

Will they make us take down our Joe Paterno statue too?

[Tapate50]

Apparently AA was told by Manfred that the investigation had been concluded for a while now. Which contradicts what we read a week or so ago.

[striker42]

Here's my guess: We lose Maitan, Bae, Waters, any J2 signing of significance, as well as our 2018 first round pick. We're banned from international signings for 2 years and are fined in the neighborhood of $10 million.

This would be an insane punishment but I could see it happening. MLB knows that there is a huge amount of rule breaking in the international market. They instituted new rules to get some parity and we're seeing teams (including the Braves) cheating to get around these rules.

I think the Braves offer MLB the perfect chance to make an example. They'd never make an example out of one of their sacred cows (Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, or Dodgers). Smaller clubs like the Royals or Marlins aren't high enough profile to make a good example and would also be disproportionately hurt by sanctions.

Enter the Braves. They commit some, apparently, pretty flagrant violations. The team is relatively high profile thanks to decades being broadcast nationally and unrivaled success in the 90s. But they aren't one of the sacred cows. Additionally, the Braves have a top farm system which makes them better able to absorb a massive hit without becoming a smoking crater and have sufficient revenues to pay a high fine.

I think the Braves are too tempting a target and MLB wants to send a message to the rest of the league too bad to miss this chance. I think they hit us with everything they've got.

[BeanieAntics]

I think an international ban for 1 year, plus extending our "penalty window" to an extra year or two after the ban. Losing 2017 J2 class. We don't lose any of our 2016 class or any from our previous draft classes. 3 million dollar fine. I could also see us getting banned from certain latin american countries for an extended period of time

[nsacpi]

We lose several signings from the current 2017 group, a second or third round pick. Plus restrictions/slot reductions for the next two signing periods.

[Southcack77]

I think the Braves will get the penalty they would taken for exceeding the domestic draft bonus pool. So monetary fine of some amount plus first and possibly the second round pick.

I think there will be big restrictions in international market for probably an additional two years.

[50PoundHead]

I think the Braves will get the penalty they would taken for exceeding the draft bonus pool. So monetary fine of some amount plus first and possibly the second round pick.

I think there will be big restrictions in international market for probably an additional two years.

I'm guessing they will reduce the overall signing pool amounts for both the draft and the international market. A hefty fine in addition to that. We didn't sign anyone of note this past July, so I don't know if vacating those signings would put much of a dent in the Braves' future (and MLB probably realizes that). MLB may try to use this episode as an opportunity to install an international draft as well, which would be a good thing.

[Horsehide Harry]

I'm guessing they will reduce the overall signing pool amounts for both the draft and the international market. A hefty fine in addition to that. We didn't sign anyone of note this past July, so I don't know if vacating those signings would put much of a dent in the Braves' future (and MLB probably realizes that). MLB may try to use this episode as an opportunity to install an international draft as well, which would be a good thing.

I said it a week or so ago but: loss of 2017 J2, loss of 2018 1st Rd (#8), fined $5M

[Jaw]

I'm guessing they will reduce the overall signing pool amounts for both the draft and the international market. A hefty fine in addition to that. We didn't sign anyone of note this past July, so I don't know if vacating those signings would put much of a dent in the Braves' future (and MLB probably realizes that). MLB may try to use this episode as an opportunity to install an international draft as well, which would be a good thing.

Ever since Coppy resigned I have been wondering if we would have made some big signings if MLB hadn't been snooping around. My guess is that they got a whiff of what was going on and put a stop to it.

[cajunrevenge]

I would guess the penalty will be lower than what the Cardinals got for what they did to the Astros. They got a 2 million fine and forfeited picks 56 and 75 to the Astros. So my official guess is 500k fine, loss of a second or third round draft pick and some executives suspended for various amounts of time with Coppy getting a full year.

[Skeeter31]

I hate when people say we didn’t sign anyone of value just because we signed players for the minimum. Look at both Albies and Acuña. Both were signed for the minimum and would be considered players not worth anything based on the above logic. Imagine losing them now. Just because Maitan was signed for mega bucks doesn’t guarantee he’ll turn into anything at the mlb level.

[Southcack77]

Ever since Coppy resigned I have been wondering if we would have made some big signings if MLB hadn't been snooping around. My guess is that they got a whiff of what was going on and put a stop to it.

No one that was hyped was going to be signing within the Braves means.

They may well have signed players who end up being good though.

It seems a good number of them were probably just favors though.

[clvclv]

Kinda need to find out exactly what the infractions are - since no one seems to know, it's pretty tough to guess what the penalties will be.

Really strange for this day and age, but MLB's done a pretty good job of keeping the details fairly quiet for once.

[Enscheff]

I think it will be a big fine and loss of future picks. I don't think they will take away players that are already signed.

Taking away players that are already signed is pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point.

[IslandBrave]

Lose Cruz and Gutierrez as they were tied to the same agent as Dian Toscano. Fined a few million and maybe lose a 2nd Round draft pick.

[Tapate50]

Lose Cruz and Gutierrez as they were tied to the same agent as Dian Toscano. Fined a few million and maybe lose a 2nd Round draft pick.

Now there’s a shady situation , not sure that guy exists

[4maddux_cy's]

The shadiness of the international signing business is exactly why their either needs to be an integrated draft or an international draft. I am tired of all the shenanigans honestly.

[Chipper]

Taking away players that are already signed is pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point.

I won't argue that it's unlikely to happen, but I'm hoping it doesn't.

[Hawk]

If we lose players I will **** myself. I’m hoping it will just be future international signing penalties and a lump sum of cash.

[Chico]

Now there’s a shady situation , not sure that guy exists

What's interesting about Toscano is we traded him to the Dodgers with Bud Norris, so he was on their payroll. I wonder if anything came up due to that

[msstate7]

Taking away players that are already signed is pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point.

If I were a player about to be signed then, I would be trying my best to get a crooked deal in place. Once signed, I would leak info in order to become a FA again

[Enscheff]

If I were a player about to be signed then, I would be trying my best to get a crooked deal in place. Once signed, I would leak info in order to become a FA again

MLB is definitely in danger of sliding down a slippery slope here exactly because of that.

The Red Sox lost players in this same scenario, and that type of thing hasn’t happened as a result. Or maybe it has...to the Braves right now.

MLB needs to fix this system once and for all.

[bravesfanMatt]

MLB is definitely in danger of sliding down a slippery slope here exactly because of that.

The Red Sox lost players in this same scenario, and that type of thing hasn’t happened as a result. Or maybe it has...to the Braves right now.

MLB needs to fix this system once and for all.

I would guarantee that every team could get hit with a penalty for international signings. Every year over half the top 30 guys have these handshake deals in place and immediately sign the morning of J2 opening. Any player who thinks they could bang out a few more bucks by turning on their team could do so.

[striker42]

I would guarantee that every team could get hit with a penalty for international signings. Every year over half the top 30 guys have these handshake deals in place and immediately sign the morning of J2 opening. Any player who thinks they could bang out a few more bucks by turning on their team could do so.

MLB turns a blind eye to the handshake deals as it's kind of a necessary evil. Teams need to be able to know how to allocate money and bonus pool space in advance of the signing deadline. It's bundling that really gets MLB mad.

[bravesfanMatt]

MLB turns a blind eye to the handshake deals as it's kind of a necessary evil. Teams need to be able to know how to allocate money and bonus pool space in advance of the signing deadline. It's bundling that really gets MLB mad.

But there is all the fuss over Maitan and he was not bundled. He was over slot and I doubt we paid some other associated with his handler way over value.

[nsacpi]

But there is all the fuss over Maitan and he was not bundled. He was over slot and I doubt we paid some other associated with his handler way over value.

What we did with Maitan is advance him or his agent some of his bonus so he and his family could hide away in Florida. I don't think they would nullify the signing because of that. But you never know.

[Enscheff]

I would guarantee that every team could get hit with a penalty for international signings. Every year over half the top 30 guys have these handshake deals in place and immediately sign the morning of J2 opening. Any player who thinks they could bang out a few more bucks by turning on their team could do so.

Agreed. So MLB is stuck in a bad place.

On the one hand they made Boston forfeit players, so to remain consistent they have to do the same with the Braves. On the other hand, once a 2nd batch of players are allowed to get paid twice, suddenly a whole bunch of other players may decide to seize the opportunity to do the same thing.

MLB needs to fix this long term, not just make an example of the Braves in some naive hope it will make other teams behave.

[50PoundHead]

I said it a week or so ago but: loss of 2017 J2, loss of 2018 1st Rd (#8), fined $5M

I don't think they will lose the #8 pick, but if MLB were to reduce the bonus pool significantly, it would limit the level of player the Braves could ultimately draft.

[50PoundHead]

I hate when people say we didn’t sign anyone of value just because we signed players for the minimum. Look at both Albies and Acuña. Both were signed for the minimum and would be considered players not worth anything based on the above logic. Imagine losing them now. Just because Maitan was signed for mega bucks doesn’t guarantee he’ll turn into anything at the mlb level.

Albies was a top fifty prospect (higher than that by some scouts), so he's not really a good example compared to the guys signed this past July. I don't recall seeing any of them in any of the pre-J2 write-ups. That doesn't mean that none of them would ever develop, but from first glance, there isn't that much there.

[Enscheff]

Albies was a top fifty prospect (higher than that by some scouts), so he's not really a good example compared to the guys signed this past July. I don't recall seeing any of them in any of the pre-J2 write-ups. That doesn't mean that none of them would ever develop, but from first glance, there isn't that much there.

Which begs the question...why bother breaking so many rules to sign them? Are we being naive to think this was about the last J2 class?

[jimsnores]

Here's my guess: We lose Maitan, Bae, Waters, any J2 signing of significance, as well as our 2018 first round pick. We're banned from international signings for 2 years and are fined in the neighborhood of $10 million.

This would be an insane punishment but I could see it happening. MLB knows that there is a huge amount of rule breaking in the international market. They instituted new rules to get some parity and we're seeing teams (including the Braves) cheating to get around these rules.

I think the Braves offer MLB the perfect chance to make an example. They'd never make an example out of one of their sacred cows (Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, or Dodgers). Smaller clubs like the Royals or Marlins aren't high enough profile to make a good example and would also be disproportionately hurt by sanctions.

Enter the Braves. They commit some, apparently, pretty flagrant violations. The team is relatively high profile thanks to decades being broadcast nationally and unrivaled success in the 90s. But they aren't one of the sacred cows. Additionally, the Braves have a top farm system which makes them better able to absorb a massive hit without becoming a smoking crater and have sufficient revenues to pay a high fine.

I think the Braves are too tempting a target and MLB wants to send a message to the rest of the league too bad to miss this chance. I think they hit us with everything they've got.

No way. That'd be way over the top.

[50PoundHead]

Which begs the question...why bother breaking so many rules to sign them? Are we being naive to think this was about the last J2 class?

I don't think this is about the 2017 J2 class at all. I was answering a question posed by someone else from my comment that if they did void the 2017 international signings, we probably wouldn't be losing too much.

I doubt they do much of anything going back unless it was something really egregious. Guys have been signed and have a year in the system. I think the penalties will go forward into the 2018 draft and international signing period. Probably similar to what the Cards got and some stringent international constraints.

[striker42]

No way. That'd be way over the top.

It absolutely would. Punishing us equal to our crime wouldn't send a message to other teams. It would still largely be in teams' best interests to cheat. By hammering us MLB could send a message and change the calculus of other teams.

It would be entirely unfair but makes a degree of sense.

[50PoundHead]

The problem with going back and declaring a bunch of guys free agents (from the 2016 international signing period) is how MLB would roll that out? Would the bonuses be charged to the 2018 pool amounts or would there be no pool constraints at all. If it's the latter, the guys who become free agents all end up with big market teams and I can't see that being a good thing for MLB. Like I've said before, this whole situation should be Exhibit A in why an international draft is needed.

The problem I have with striker42's point is that the other owners likely won't go along with it. As he said, it would give the Commissioner's Office a hammer that they would employ at will, which may be used arbitrarily. I don't think the owners would want that.

[brian22]

A few guys from the last J2 class, restricted from signing international players for 2 years, and fined a few million bucks.

Yep

[jpx7]

Team has to be called the "Cobb County Devil Braves" for two years, all uniforms are dyed washing-machine-color-bleed pink, bells are attached to all team cleats, and Chipper Jones has his twitter privileges revoked.

[Heyward]

As long as we keep Maitan, and our 2018 1st, let the chips fall after that.

[Carp]

Here's my guess: We lose Maitan, Bae, Waters, any J2 signing of significance, as well as our 2018 first round pick. We're banned from international signings for 2 years and are fined in the neighborhood of $10 million.

This would be an insane punishment but I could see it happening. MLB knows that there is a huge amount of rule breaking in the international market. They instituted new rules to get some parity and we're seeing teams (including the Braves) cheating to get around these rules.

I think the Braves offer MLB the perfect chance to make an example. They'd never make an example out of one of their sacred cows (Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, or Dodgers). Smaller clubs like the Royals or Marlins aren't high enough profile to make a good example and would also be disproportionately hurt by sanctions.

Enter the Braves. They commit some, apparently, pretty flagrant violations. The team is relatively high profile thanks to decades being broadcast nationally and unrivaled success in the 90s. But they aren't one of the sacred cows. Additionally, the Braves have a top farm system which makes them better able to absorb a massive hit without becoming a smoking crater and have sufficient revenues to pay a high fine.

I think the Braves are too tempting a target and MLB wants to send a message to the rest of the league too bad to miss this chance. I think they hit us with everything they've got.

Extremely unlikely.

The MLB hasn't been shy in disciplining their "sacred cows" before. The Sox had to forfeit the signings of two pretty heralded prospects a couple years back and I believe were given some restrictions on Intl spending (not sure about a fine).

I just don't see us losing Maitan. Hell I even think a 1st round pick forfeiture is a long shot to be honest.

[Southcack77]

I thought the insinuation was that the Braves were signing non prospects or light prospects from particular international "agents" to improve their situation with the players they really wanted like Maitan and the kid who is coming onto the market in a bit.

Basically, signing guys that probably won't ever amount to anything as bribes.

I don't guess invalidating the J2 class from 2017 would really have much effect if that is really what they did. The only way to punish the conduct would either to be to ban the Braves from signing the prized prospect or invalidating prospects they can show were acquired that way. That's concerning, but maybe hard to establish.

That's why I think the most likely penalty is going to include driving the Braves out of the international conversation for a time. Given they are already in the penalty box, I think it would be extended and perhaps broadened.

Invalidating prospects is also possible but seems problematic.

[striker42]

Extremely unlikely.

The MLB hasn't been shy in disciplining their "sacred cows" before. The Sox had to forfeit the signings of two pretty heralded prospects a couple years back and I believe were given some restrictions on Intl spending (not sure about a fine).

I just don't see us losing Maitan. Hell I even think a 1st round pick forfeiture is a long shot to be honest.

It's not that they're afraid of disciplining the sacred cows. They're just not going to make an example out of them. I could see them making an example out of the Braves with a disproportionate punishment.

[mqt]

I thought the insinuation was that the Braves were signing non prospects or light prospects from particular international "agents" to improve their situation with the players they really wanted like Maitan and the kid who is coming onto the market in a bit.

Basically, signing guys that probably won't ever amount to anything as bribes.

I don't guess invalidating the J2 class from 2017 would really have much effect if that is really what they did. The only way to punish the conduct would either to be to ban the Braves from signing the prized prospect or invalidating prospects they can show were acquired that way. That's concerning, but maybe hard to establish.

That's why I think the most likely penalty is going to include driving the Braves out of the international conversation for a time. Given they are already in the penalty box, I think it would be extended and perhaps broadened.

Invalidating prospects is also possible but seems problematic.

Yeah, I still wonder if some of this stems more from the kid coming down the pipeline that we apparently already had a deal with for the session after we are done in the penalty box.

[Hudson2]

It’s leaning more towards Maitan everyday it seems. If the investigation is over then what are they waiting on?

[Coredor]

If they take Maitan from us then we should invite Manfred to Atlanta and declare it souvenir brick night while we invite him on the field. Seriously if he takes Maitan I hope Manfred drops dead.

[brian22]

It would be incredibly short-sighted of Manfred to take away Maitan. Think of the conspiracies that will suddenly come about as a result of free agents and their handlers wanting to double their money.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Sounds a lot like Maitan, Pache, maybe 1 or 2 from the last J2 class, a 2 year complete ban from Latin America, and a 5 million dollar fine.

[CyYoung31]

Sounds a lot like Maitan, Pache, maybe 1 or 2 from the last J2 class, a 2 year complete ban from Latin America, and a 5 million dollar fine.

That would be insane. That would be the most extreme scenario. It’s probably somewhere in between.

[Jaw]

All these reports keep saying "the Braves will lose Latin American prospects", then mention our most prominent Latin American prospects. There really doesn't seem to be anything to back up the mention of a guy like Maitan. Rosenthal is trying to sell subscriptions, and saying it's a guy like Henry Quintero or Charbel Hadad who most people have never heard of isn't going to do that. I remain skeptical that Maitan is related.

[mfree80]

It’s leaning more towards Maitan everyday it seems. If the investigation is over then what are they waiting on?

I don't see how its leaning toward anything. I see only baseless peculation followed by more baseless speculation about whether the previous baseless speculation might or might not be reasonable or accurate.

[Hudson2]

[QUOTE=mfree80;444061]I don't see how its leaning toward anything. I see only baseless peculation followed by more baseless speculation about whether the previous baseless speculation might or might not be reasonable or accurate.[/QUOTE

i hope so

[NYCBrave]

I don't see how its leaning toward anything. I see only baseless peculation followed by more baseless speculation about whether the previous baseless speculation might or might not be reasonable or accurate.

This is true. It's so easy for these writers to hide behind anonymous sources, because they have no repercussion when they're wrong and it allows them to pass speculation as fact while causing click bait. It really is not a good thing.

[Eyeman]

During the AFL Championship game I thought they announced the penalty, something with Junior Severino, $15mil total. Came on here to read it and I guess they were just speculating. I still don't think they will take anyone that we have already signed, that just seems to tricky as far as what happens with that player going forward, etc.

I'm thinking we lose our upcoming second round pick and stay in the penalty phase on International signings for 3 years and pay a $5mil penalty.

[Oklahomabrave]

Jeff Wren says it’s closer to what Gammons said and Shanks is wrong

[jpx7]

Jeff Wren says it’s closer to what Gammons said and Shanks is wrong

What did Gammons predict?

[Oklahomabrave]

What did Gammons predict?
We lose Maitan and a couple others and have some restrictions. I’m guessing way less time than Shanks said.

[jpx7]

We lose Maitan and a couple others and have some restrictions. I’m guessing way less time than Shanks said.

I still don't understand tearing up the contract of Maitan, or any player whose signing wasn't a result of transgression.

[smootness]

We're going to lose Maitan and Gutierrez is likely as well. Won't lose the #8 pick. Just hoping we can hang onto Severino.

[Carp]

I think it's highly unlikely we'll lose Maitan.

[msstate7]

If we lose players, those players should have to wait 1 year to sign with someone else. If there is no punishment for the player, players will try to get deals done that aren’t by the rules

[DirkPiggler]

If we lose players, those players should have to wait 1 year to sign with someone else. If there is no punishment for the player, players will try to get deals done that aren’t by the rules

Put them into a draft. Or allow teams to bid for their services, but pay the money directly to MLB.

The players know they are breaking the rules as well. Granted, their punishment shouldn't be anywhere near as severe as that levied on the teams, but they shouldn't be allowed to get a second payday from it either.

[DaneHill]

So I got a personal response from Rob Manfred, basically asking him to consider the Braves fans and not punish us for the actions of a few. I knew it wouldn't make any difference, but honored to actually hear back from him personally:


"Dane,

Your letter reflects a real passion for the game. And, I have no desire to penalize passionate fans. One of the great things about Baseball, however, is its competitive character. There is competition on the field and competition off the field to acquire the best talent. And, there are rules that govern the competition both on and off the field so that the competition is fair. When the rules are broken, there has to be discipline to protect the other clubs and their fans. That is the way of Baseball.

Take heart and stay loyal. This episode will end and the Braves will thrive.

Rob Manfred"

Doesn't give us any insight into what is coming down the pipe, but nice of him to take the time.

[thethe]

Even though that's probably a secretary writing the message it's still pretty awesome

[DaneHill]

Even though that's probably a secretary writing the message it's still pretty awesome

Yeah, that crossed my mind. Came from his direct email address though, so....

[mqt]

Yeah, that crossed my mind. Came from his direct email address though, so....

Organizations this large typically have a team of people to deal with correspondence with those utilizing a direct email address for someone in this sort of role.

[Hawk]

Organizations this large typically have a team of people to deal with correspondence with those utilizing a direct email address for someone in this sort of role.

This is true, although there are many high-profile execs (Tim Cook/John Legere come to mind immediately) who have their assistants collate and pass on the 'best' or most thoughtful e-mails for personal responses.

A related story that's pretty funny: https://www.cultofmac.com/287261/reddit-user-convinced-tim-cook-change-apples-hold-music/

[DaneHill]

Well, I'll just say that it was not a published email address for him that I sent my original email to. So would be odd if others had access to it to email responses from. He could get in trouble if a rogue employee decided to start emailing out from it.

[jpx7]

This is true, although there are many high-profile execs (Tim Cook/John Legere come to mind immediately) who have their assistants collate and pass on the 'best' or most thoughtful e-mails for personal responses.

A related story that's pretty funny: https://www.cultofmac.com/287261/reddit-user-convinced-tim-cook-change-apples-hold-music/

Sort of what I was thinking, too.

[brian22]

Jeff Wren says it’s closer to what Gammons said and Shanks is wrong

How would Jeff Wren know?

[nsacpi]

How would Jeff Wren know?

He and John Hart are known to be very close.

[MadduxFanII]

Great, Dane's spamming the commissioner. Now we're going to lose half the farm system.

[GeorgiaGirl]

While Jeff has been a little crazy at times, he hasn't been completely wrong. A lot of things have been good calls by him, he talked about the Coppy stuff quite a ways before it broke.

So I think Maitan is going to get declared a free agent.

[DaneHill]

Great, Dane's spamming the commissioner. Now we're going to lose half the farm system.

Dang, that would definitely backfire. I'd be the Steve Bartman of the Braves.

No, it was a nice email to him, putting one last little voice in his ear from a baseball fan's point of view before final sentencing comes down. Figured it couldn't hurt.

[chop2chip]

Have you guys actually read Wren’s Twitter?

He’s not reporting anything. He’s just saying he would believe Gammons over Shanks, more so out of spite for Shanks than trust for Gammo.

[mqt]

Emotionally preparing myself for today.

[Tapate50]

Yeah, gonna suck a bag of something today.

[thethe]

Please MLB...let's us keep Maitan.

[nsacpi]

Please MLB...let's us keep Maitan.

Forget Maitan. What about Bae.

[zitothebrave]

Please MLB...let's us keep Maitan.

I just can't imagine this happening. Because Maitan unlike the Sox prospects got paid. He got 5M that we know of as well some form of residuals most likely if he's being involved in this investigation. To make him a free agent so another tema can pay him 5M doesn't make even the slightest sense because then he makes out and agents will then just start trying to convince teams of new shady ways to do things so if they get caught they get a huge payday.

[striker42]

If we lose Maitan, you'll know the punishment isn't about penalizing us for our actions. It's MLB going overboard to send a message to the rest of the league. Sadly I expect them to send a message. Just another case of a Georgia team getting dumped on.

[zitothebrave]

If we lose Maitan, you'll know the punishment isn't about penalizing us for our actions. It's MLB going overboard to send a message to the rest of the league. Sadly I expect them to send a message. Just another case of a Georgia team getting dumped on.

You can send a message with a 3 year international ban and a hefty fine. 3 years of no international players is huge. Heck throw a cherry on top and reduce draft money for 3 years too. 3 years of no youth is a huge bane to a team. I mean look at what happened to us late in JS's tenure

[MadduxFanII]

Dang, that would definitely backfire. I'd be the Steve Bartman of the Braves.

No, it was a nice email to him, putting one last little voice in his ear from a baseball fan's point of view before final sentencing comes down. Figured it couldn't hurt.

You Rickrolled the commissioner, didn’t you?

[zitothebrave]

You Rickrolled the commissioner, didn’t you?

https://media.giphy.com/media/olAik8MhYOB9K/giphy.gif

[Jaw]

Great, Dane's spamming the commissioner. Now we're going to lose half the farm system.

Looks like the old guard has found it's next scapegoat.

[cajunrevenge]

If we lose Maitan, you'll know the punishment isn't about penalizing us for our actions. It's MLB going overboard to send a message to the rest of the league. Sadly I expect them to send a message. Just another case of a Georgia team getting dumped on.

Dont panic. We arent dealing with Roger Goodell's incompetence here.

[50PoundHead]

I just can't imagine this happening. Because Maitan unlike the Sox prospects got paid. He got 5M that we know of as well some form of residuals most likely if he's being involved in this investigation. To make him a free agent so another tema can pay him 5M doesn't make even the slightest sense because then he makes out and agents will then just start trying to convince teams of new shady ways to do things so if they get caught they get a huge payday.

MLB can do what it wants, but it seems to me by declaring Maitan a free agent, they'd be penalizing the Braves for misbehavior and then allowing 29 other teams to potentially misbehave. I'm sure they have a process in mind, but how would a Maitan signing be handled vis-a-vis international spending limits. Would any contract he sign be counted against the 2018 cap or would someone be able to blow out their 2017 cap? If it's the former, fine. If it's the latter, be prepared for a mudbath.

[thethe]

Might not hear anything until tomorrow apparently.

[striker42]

According to DOB, he said the Braves people he's talked to seem kind of resigned that they're going to lose Maitan because of how much of the investigation seemed to center around his signing.

Almost sounds to me like MLB wants to declare Maitan a FA to send a message and so were zeroed in on him to try to figure out if there was a basis to achieve that. Because from everything else that was reported, it was the bundling that was the really bad violation. But no one we signed this June would make a particularly effective deterrent.

[tululush]

According to DOB, he said the Braves people he's talked to seem kind of resigned that they're going to lose Maitan because of how much of the investigation seemed to center around his signing.

Almost sounds to me like MLB wants to declare Maitan a FA to send a message and so were zeroed in on him to try to figure out if there was a basis to achieve that. Because from everything else that was reported, it was the bundling that was the really bad violation. But no one we signed this June would make a particularly effective deterrent.

If we do lose him, what are the odds we re-sign him? And for how much?

[striker42]

If we do lose him, what are the odds we re-sign him? And for how much?

My guess would be about 0. I can't imagine we'd be allowed to re-sign him.

[50PoundHead]

My guess would be about 0. I can't imagine we'd be allowed to re-sign him.

Do we get his bonus money back? If his signing is voided, the least MLB could do would be to spread the amount of his contract over the next three or four years and add it to the Braves' pool number. If Maitan is a free agent, hello big market team.

[Enscheff]

One thing is for sure, the tone of the next Maitan article written by Bowman will depend on whether or not the Braves keep him.

If they keep him the article will be, “Maitan is primed to bounce back after a difficult transition year”.

If they lose him it will be, “Maitan wasn’t really that great, and Coppy was stupid for giving him $4M anyways”.

After either article comes out, tehteh will jump in to tell us how either scenario is great news for the Braves future. I suspect the spin on the “lose Maitan” article will be something along the lines of lowering the pressure on Riley so he can flourish at 3b.

[thethe]

My guess would be about 0. I can't imagine we'd be allowed to re-sign him.

What a disaster. Losing maitan will be a big blow. It's not often the braves are able to lock up a generational talent

[striker42]

Do we get his bonus money back? If his signing is voided, the least MLB could do would be to spread the amount of his contract over the next three or four years and add it to the Braves' pool number. If Maitan is a free agent, hello big market team.

I think it's already been reported that we wouldn't get the money back. And I can't imagine MLB doing anything to soften the blow. If they're voiding Maitan's contract then they're dead set on making this as painful for the Braves as possible and going as overboard as they can.

[tululush]

I think it's already been reported that we wouldn't get the money back. And I can't imagine MLB doing anything to soften the blow. If they're voiding Maitan's contract then they're dead set on making this as painful for the Braves as possible and going as overboard as they can.

What's even more ridiculous is the fact that they'd declare him a FA, and possibly let Maitan keep his signing bonus, and then let him double dip and sign again elsewhere. It's been mentioned numerous times in this thread, but this would allow some agents to manipulate the system, have a contract voided, and then have their client sign again and double down.

[chop2chip]

Well the only thing worse than taking Maitan away from the Braves is taking $5M from a 17 year old kid who inostensibly did nothing wrong.

Maitan is keeping that money.

[CJ9]

Bowman:

"MLB will likely announce the findings of its Braves investigation within the next two days. Penalties could include fines, international market restrictions and the loss of international prospects (Maitan remains a strong possibility)."

Interesting that he has removed the draft picks possibility from his list of punishments. Great news.

[drewdat]

So I got a personal response from Rob Manfred, basically asking him to consider the Braves fans and not punish us for the actions of a few. I knew it wouldn't make any difference, but honored to actually hear back from him personally:


"Dane,

I'm going in dry.

Rob Manfred"

Doesn't give us any insight into what is coming down the pipe, but nice of him to take the time.

I'll enjoy watching this be the last time they enforce any kind of signing rules.

[Horsehide Harry]

What's being overlooked here is that the Maitan signing is the major reason why the Braves were already J2 restricted. His bonus already cost the Braves the penalty dollars for going over AND has already cost the Braves 1 (of 2) year of not being able to sign a player for more than $300K.

Taking Maitan would cost the Braves: his bonus ($4.5M), the already paid tax associated with the over signing (~$4.5M), the loss of prospects that could have been signed in summer of 2017, plus whatever fines the Braves get associated with the penalty.

[50PoundHead]

What's being overlooked here is that the Maitan signing is the major reason why the Braves were already J2 restricted. His bonus already cost the Braves the penalty dollars for going over AND has already cost the Braves 1 (of 2) year of not being able to sign a player for more than $300K.

Taking Maitan would cost the Braves: his bonus ($4.5M), the already paid tax associated with the over signing (~$4.5M), the loss of prospects that could have been signed in summer of 2017, plus whatever fines the Braves get associated with the penalty.

Does anyone know right off hand how far the Braves exceeded their cap in 2016. I understand the Braves are going to be punished, but if one subtracts Maitan's bonus and that would have put us under the cap, we should somehow have the ability to utilize that money in the future. I'm no Pollyanna and if we would have exceeded the cap without adding in Maitan's bonus, it's a moot point. But somehow if Maitan is made a free agent, we get as HH said, a triple whammy in the past, present, and future.

[zitothebrave]

I'm no Pollyanna

I don't wnat to derail this thread too much. But **** pollyanna, I want to punch her in her fictional face.

[50PoundHead]

I don't wnat to derail this thread too much. But **** pollyanna, I want to punch her in her fictional face.

https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1427912942i/14335282.jpg

Don't punch your screen too hard!

[Knucksie]

What's the deal with the sour grapes statements about Maitan?

[50PoundHead]

What's the deal with the sour grapes statements about Maitan?

Where are you seeing those?

[Knucksie]

Where are you seeing those?

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/gammons-latest-cobb-machado-maitan-braves-swihart.html


Scroll down to the section on Braves update. "Not worth the money or the hype."

[Hudson2]

I feel ex bravesitis coming on. #maitansucks

[striker42]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/gammons-latest-cobb-machado-maitan-braves-swihart.html


Scroll down to the section on Braves update. "Not worth the money it the hype."

I wonder how much of this is real souring on Maitan and how much is Braves damage control.

[Hudson2]

I wonder how much of this is real souring on Maitan and how much is Braves damage control.

I did talk to a scout at a Mississippi game in the summer and he wasn’t high on Maitan. He just wasn’t sold on him at all.

[zitothebrave]

I wonder how much of this is real souring on Maitan and how much is Braves damage control.

It's likely almost all Braves damage control. Maitan is young enough that if you don't like an aspect of his game you can work with him to improve his technique.

[bravesfanforlife88]

It's likely almost all Braves damage control. Maitan is young enough that if you don't like an aspect of his game you can work with him to improve his technique.

I wonder how much of it has to do with his weight. seems like he added some weight when we got him stateside. not a surprise, young kid, moved to a place where fast food is so prevalent. need to get him a nutritionist.

[bravesfanMatt]

I would rather have the guy we paid ~5 million for than not have the guy we still paid ~5 million for... no amount of spin will change that.

[Knucksie]

I wonder how much of this is real souring on Maitan and how much is Braves damage control.

It may be a little of both, but it's part of a pattern. When somebody exits the organization, there frequently are negative statements issued. For once, they should be professional and accept a parting of company without slamming the former player, coach, GM, etc.

[UNCBlue012]

I wonder how much of this is real souring on Maitan and how much is Braves damage control.

I am STOKED about the day he hits a walk-off homer to knock us out of the playoffs.

[Chico]

MLB is starting to look silly at this point. Get your shiat together. It should not be this difficult. Why would you just now decide to interview the prospects in question. That never came up before?

[50PoundHead]

I would rather have the guy we paid ~5 million for than not have the guy we still paid ~5 million for... no amount of spin will change that.

Yeah. The money's already spent, so even if the commodity delivers less than expected, you still want ownership of the commodity. I did read somewhere (cannot recall where) after the end of the season where a set of scouts were quoted on Maitan and opinions were all over the board. Some of that may have been sour grapes coming from the organizations that didn't sign him, but there was concern that he had gotten too bulky.

[Hudson2]

I think they are calling the prospects to notify them of what’s happening about them being declared FA.

[Chico]

If MLB goes overboard I really hope every prospect who was obtained "illegally" comes out and admits the wrong doings so they too can get signed again and collect another signing bonus. That would be a mess, but fun to watch.

[Knucksie]

One lower IQ Braves fan, apparently have taken to Twitter and comments sections, wondering about the likelihood of losing Acuna.

[clvclv]

It may be a little of both, but it's part of a pattern. When somebody exits the organization, there frequently are negative statements issued. For once, they should be professional and accept a parting of company without slamming the former player, coach, GM, etc.

To be fair, sometimes those negative statements aren't so much sour grapes as an admission that the player might've been a bit over-hyped by those within the organization and fans with their Braves-colored glasses on at an earlier date.

Not always the case, but that's certainly part of it.

[Enscheff]

I think they are calling the prospects to notify them of what’s happening about them being declared FA.

I can’t think of any other reason to meet with these players.

[GeorgiaGirl]

They certainly wouldn't be calling the players to just shoot the breeze with them, and while there haven't been names named it sounds like a lot of the top 2016 international prospects were called.

[Bravesfannchar]

Heyman reporting Maitan will be freed

[nsacpi]

Braves apparently understated how much they spent in 2016 by quite a bit. The penalties for going over slot are based on how much you go over. Theoretically this could justify "freeing" the entire 2016 class.

[Southcack77]

I can’t think of any other reason to meet with these players.

I agree.

I also would rather have the "overrated" prospect I paid lots of money for than not have him.

[striker42]

Braves apparently understated how much they spent in 2016 by quite a bit. The penalties for going over slot are based on how much you go over. Theoretically this could justify "freeing" the entire 2016 class.

Declaring a prospect a FA is an extreme penalty, usually reserved for when you wouldn't have been able to get the prospect but for the cheating. Understating how much we spent is more about money and future signings. If we had fully reported the 2016 money we'd still have those prospects. It makes no sense to declare them free agents. The proper punishment here would be fines and bans from signing international prospects/bonus pool reductions.

[Coredor]

I have a bad feeling about this. If we lose all of those prospects I hope Manfred and anyone who snitched die and burn in hell.

[Knucksie]

To be fair, sometimes those negative statements aren't so much sour grapes as an admission that the player might've been a bit over-hyped by those within the organization and fans with their Braves-colored glasses on at an earlier date.

Not always the case, but that's certainly part of it.

Too early in his development to make that determination. Coupled with the timing of statements from unnamed sources, draw you own conclusions.

[striker42]

I still wouldn't be the least bit surprised if when the official announcement comes, we lose our first pick. If MLB is going as far as declaring prospects FAs based on violations that have never before warranted a prospect being declared a FA, then MLB will take the must easier step of taking away our first pick.

We're getting the baseball equivalent of the death penalty.

[brian22]

Maitan and Gutierrez are FA per 680 The Fan.

[jpx7]

Maitan and Gutierrez are FA per 680 The Fan.

Yunior Severino and Juan Contreras as well, quoth Badler (via mlbtraderumors).

[msstate7]

Declare all Braves’ minor leaguers FAs, all home games played in Gwinnett, and snit receive a 10-year guaranteed contract

[clvclv]

Too early in his development to make that determination. Coupled with the timing of statements from unnamed sources, draw you own conclusions.

That's never stopped people from jumping off the ex-Braves' bandwagons en masse before - this isn't just a Maitan thing.

As for "drawing my own conclusions", I think we've seen way too much of that recently - and I even warned about doing so when everyone was speculating about what the potential losses might be. What I will go out on a limb and say is that the transgressions were obviously major and widespread. Are they making an example out of the Braves for this mess? Sure. But the people in charge were pretty obviously bending and/or breaking just about every rule in the book - MLB's not levelling these penalties if they don't have the evidence it was that bad (whether we've seen it or not just yet).

[Knucksie]

That's never stopped people from jumping off the ex-Braves' bandwagons en masse before - this isn't just a Maitan thing.


That was kind of my point with the sour grapes comment and the other replies about former players, coaches and GM's. It just seems to happen frequently, and it's been going on for years.

This was just the new regime's way of tipping off yesterday that they knew Maitan would be lost. Then, "Oh, we didn't think he was worth the money or the hype."

[jpx7]

That was kind of my point with the sour grapes comment and the other replies about former players, coaches and GM's. It just seems to happen frequently, and it's been going on for years.

This was just the new regime's way of tipping off yesterday that they knew Maitan would be lost. Then, "Oh, we didn't think he was worth the money or the hype."

It also probably tips that they aren't going to protest or appeal the penalties, either, or else they'd be saying, "Losing Maitan is a huge blow," which would help make the case that the penalties are excessive.

[Enscheff]

Braves have just lost every international prospect of any real value. Blakely made sure the Braves burned after Hart tried to **** on him to save his own ass.

I think it’s safe to assume the Braves are in no position to deal any prospects to improve the MLB team any time soon.

[Knucksie]

It also probably tips that they aren't going to protest or appeal the penalties, either, or else they'd be saying, "Losing Maitan is a huge blow," which would help make the case that the penalties are excessive.

It sure appears that way.

[jpx7]

Braves have just lost every international prospect of any real value. Blakely made sure the Braves burned after Hart tried to **** on him to save his own ass.

I think it’s safe to assume the Braves are in no position to deal any prospects to improve the MLB team any time soon.

It really is fairly catastrophic. Anthopolous is going to have to draft really well, think outside-the-box (but inside-the-rules), and consider trading established players to bring young talent into the system over the next several years.

[Hudson2]

Who else thinks the rebuild just got set back 2 more years?

[Orphan Black]

Who else thinks the rebuild just got set back 2 more years?

I don't know about that...most of the international prospects lost were pretty far out.

[Enscheff]

Who else thinks the rebuild just got set back 2 more years?

The length of the window is what suffers here.

[bravesfanMatt]

Our window is still open. We hurt our six plus year window.

[Hudson2]

Do we get to keep Contreras?

[msstate7]

We keep waters?

[bravesfanMatt]

Did we keep Kemp?

[nsacpi]

Who else thinks the rebuild just got set back 2 more years?

the effect is more in the time frame when the window closes

[jpx7]

the effect is more in the time frame when the window closes

Sure, but I also think this does set back the rebuild in the immediate, too: in a year or two or three these were some of the players the Braves could've afforded trading for now-impact players to bolster a competitive MLB team.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Did we keep Kemp?pretty sure we tampered with him, his contract should be voided

[clvclv]

Did we keep Kemp?

Another part of the penalty - they just didn't talk about it.

[50PoundHead]

It really is fairly catastrophic. Anthopolous is going to have to draft really well, think outside-the-box (but inside-the-rules), and consider trading established players to bring young talent into the system over the next several years.

The problem is we don't have that much talent to trade. We could do the extreme re-build that Horsehide Harry has suggested and move Freeman, but a team only gets value back when it's willing buyer-willing seller scenario. If the Braves go full re-build, everyone will know they are a motivated seller and you don't get value back in that instance. To get more than value back, you have to have motivated buyer. I just see a bunch of low-ball offers for Freeman and Inciarte.

[FreemanFan]

http://m.braves.mlb.com/news/article/262279086/mlb-issues-braves-penalty-for-signings/

[msstate7]

http://m.braves.mlb.com/news/article/262279086/mlb-issues-braves-penalty-for-signings/

If I am an international big time player, I am signing with the team that gives me a deal early or is bypassing the rules. I will then leak it midway through my first season. What you have to lose?

[jpx7]

The problem is we don't have that much talent to trade. We could do the extreme re-build that Horsehide Harry has suggested and move Freeman, but a team only gets value back when it's willing buyer-willing seller scenario. If the Braves go full re-build, everyone will know they are a motivated seller and you don't get value back in that instance. To get more than value back, you have to have motivated buyer. I just see a bunch of low-ball offers for Freeman and Inciarte.

I agree, that's the likelihood, and posted something in another thread (drawing on a Butler/Bulls analogy)—which is I simply said Anthopoulos will have to "consider" trading such players, contingent on actually getting equal-value or better returns.

[striker42]

If I am an international big time player, I am signing with the team that gives me a deal early or is bypassing the rules. I will then leak it midway through my first season. What you have to lose?

The fact that MLB probably wont hit another team like this again meaning you've just alienated the organization that holds your rights.

[4maddux_cy's]

The fact that several other scouts said most other teams are doing this is why we need either an integrated draft with US born players or a separate international draft. This foolishness needs to stop.

[zitothebrave]

The problem is we don't have that much talent to trade. We could do the extreme re-build that Horsehide Harry has suggested and move Freeman, but a team only gets value back when it's willing buyer-willing seller scenario. If the Braves go full re-build, everyone will know they are a motivated seller and you don't get value back in that instance. To get more than value back, you have to have motivated buyer. I just see a bunch of low-ball offers for Freeman and Inciarte.

There in lies the rub.

Though I personally think that Freeman should be traded, he deserves a chance to play for a winner. Yankees need a 1B pretty badly if we could get Torres and a few other top prospects that's probably all we can hope for right now. We'll probably see a slight uptick in talent next year and may even contend in the next year and and the year after but might as well blow it up and prepare to be good when Acuna, Albies, etc. are ready. No reason to rush anyone. No veteran pitchers just have young guys who if they do well we trade them.

Not to be the ultimate pessimist but we lost the best asset to bring in young talent. We may not feel this sting for 5-7 years but we'll feel it incredibly hard without going full rebuild.

That or go the other way and guy the farm and make a run. Try to flip the bird at the commissioner and spend big in free agency and then later sell thema ll off and rebuild Marlins style.

[Orphan Black]

http://m.braves.mlb.com/news/article/262279086/mlb-issues-braves-penalty-for-signings/

Reading that it sounds like Coppolella is done in baseball.

[Southcack77]

I have no idea whether it was a serious offer or not, but the Braves are damn lucky Coppy didn't actually buy Waters that car.

[Southcack77]

The fact that several other scouts said most other teams are doing this is why we need either an integrated draft with US born players or a separate international draft. This foolishness needs to stop.


The Braves were scumbags in this, but make no mistake the reason for the harshness of these penalties is that the owners do not want to pay international free agents their true value and are announcing they will stomp on anyone who gets out of line.

[Horsehide Harry]

So who wins the guess the penalty contest? Who had "prison gang raped by Bruno the wonder dick and his band of 40?"

[50PoundHead]

There in lies the rub.

Though I personally think that Freeman should be traded, he deserves a chance to play for a winner. Yankees need a 1B pretty badly if we could get Torres and a few other top prospects that's probably all we can hope for right now. We'll probably see a slight uptick in talent next year and may even contend in the next year and and the year after but might as well blow it up and prepare to be good when Acuna, Albies, etc. are ready. No reason to rush anyone. No veteran pitchers just have young guys who if they do well we trade them.

Not to be the ultimate pessimist but we lost the best asset to bring in young talent. We may not feel this sting for 5-7 years but we'll feel it incredibly hard without going full rebuild.

That or go the other way and guy the farm and make a run. Try to flip the bird at the commissioner and spend big in free agency and then later sell thema ll off and rebuild Marlins style.

We couldn't get Torres for Freeman and given Torres' injury issues, maybe that's a good thing.

[Horsehide Harry]

I can't say I expected it to be this bad. But I expected scorched earth to an extent. We got scorched earth, then salting of the grounds and poisoning of the wells .

Sure MLB saw a chance to stick it in a team a. not a sacred cow (Boston, NY teams, LAD, Cubs, Cards, etc.) and b. not a team so small they put them in danger of folding altogether (Tampa, Minnesota, Marlins, etc.). The Braves were just right - mid market team without a lot of national media support, in the hated south, smug from the whole 1990's success, with disinterested owners and upper management more interested in legacy than future success.

But, anybody with any intelligence should know that the Braves have long sat in that position of vulnerability. It's not like it's new.

MLB went way overboard because they could.

But it's the Braves FO management that let them by believing in their own infallibility.

This whole episode stems from the idea that the Braves had that they were smarter than everyone else, not only in baseball, but virtually any sport ever conceived. They thought they could rebuild and compete while doing it all while doing it on a mid to small size budget.

And it didn't work and now they are caught and paying the price.

The short term window isn't much changed by the losses incurred. They still have an outside chance at producing a marginally talented team in the next 2-3 years given the current and expected budget. Will it be a WS type team? No, of course not. Not enough talent to grow from within and now not enough talent to add from outside and not enough money to buy through mistakes.

Best bet is to burn it all down and build again. The right way this time.

[50PoundHead]

Braves cannot give a bonus greater than $10,000 in the 2019-2020 signing year. I hear they are scouting this guy because that's about all they will be able to afford.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Iifzt77e27o/UFYQlN5gKaI/AAAAAAAACXc/KY4IWlgWg2w/s1600/Bikes+and+baseball+035.JPG

[Horsehide Harry]

Braves cannot give a bonus greater than $10,000 in the 2019-2020 signing year. I hear they are scouting this guy because that's about all they will be able to afford.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Iifzt77e27o/UFYQlN5gKaI/AAAAAAAACXc/KY4IWlgWg2w/s1600/Bikes+and+baseball+035.JPG

IDK, that's an expensive chair... Do you think we could go $5K then provide a new chair?

[GeorgiaGirl]

This makes the margin of error much smaller with attempting to compete...it makes it really just 2019-2022, maybe even just 2021. Everything would have to come together perfectly for it to work and it really may not be worth it.

I might just blow it up to smithereens to stick it to MLB if I was in the Braves shoes. It might not be worth it to deal with a small margin of error for a few playoff appearances. Trade everyone outside of the youngest side of the team, fill in with filler, and tank hard for 2018 and 2019. Prepare for when Ozzie Albies and Ronald Acuna are really going to be in their prime.

[50PoundHead]

So who wins the guess the penalty contest? Who had "prison gang raped by Bruno the wonder dick and his band of 40?"

http://crimefeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/33791A.jpg

You talkin' to me?

[Horsehide Harry]

http://crimefeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/33791A.jpg

You talkin' to me?

(While talking to Coppy) You sure do have a purty skull...

[Enscheff]

This makes the margin of error much smaller with attempting to compete...it makes it really just 2019-2022, maybe even just 2021. Everything would have to come together perfectly for it to work and it really may not be worth it.

I might just blow it up to smithereens to stick it to MLB if I was in the Braves shoes. It might not be worth it to deal with a small margin of error for a few playoff appearances. Trade everyone outside of the youngest side of the team, fill in with filler, and tank hard for 2018 and 2019. Prepare for when Ozzie Albies and Ronald Acuna are really going to be in their prime.

This makes it more important than ever to properly manage the remaining valuable assets.

That extra year they gave up on Swanson, Albies and possibly Acuna will hurt even more now that the pipeline of new talent has taken such a huge hit.

But yeah, they were an above average FO that understood the cost of these early promotions. Riiiiiight.

[GeorgiaGirl]

How have AA's drafts been? If they're good maybe this won't be so bad...then again if the Braves try to compete he'd be dealing with a lesser talent level.

This is hard to try to figure out a way around...

[thewupk]

It sucks that it took MLB stepping in but hopefully "the Braves way" is officially dead. And if that's what it took to get the John's out then so be it.

[zitothebrave]

It sucks that it took MLB stepping in but hopefully "the Braves way" is officially dead. And if that's what it took to get the John's out then so be it.

Schuerholz is going nowhere.

From what I've read, I'm genuinely concerned about his mental health. If everything I read is true he handpicked Wren and Hart to run the team only to get into internal power struggles and force them out.

[Chico]

It sucks that it took MLB stepping in but hopefully "the Braves way" is officially dead. And if that's what it took to get the John's out then so be it.

This is one way to take it.

All BS aside if Coppy had truly alienated his staff and his fellow GM's there was no way he was ever going to be able to take us any further. If you do not have people skills you cannot be sucessful in any business long term, much less big business.

if I'm AA I'm thanking Coppy for doing the dirty work the last 3 years, as well as making everyone hate you. I have a stacked farm system and everyone thinks I'm the "good guy" here to save the franchise.