Rule 5

[Super]

Here's a list of notable Rule 5 guys from each team.

https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-40-man-additions-rule-5-eligible/

Couple guys I have slight interest in:

Taylor Sparks 3B CIN
Jason Martin OF HOU
Ryan O'Hearn 1B KC
Kyle Wren OF MIL
Clint Coulter OF MIL
Lewin Diaz 1B MIN
Kohl Stewart P MIN
Casey Meisner P OAK
Carlos Tocci OF PHI
Nick Ciuffo C TB
Kean Wong 2B TB
Taylor Gushue C WSH

Maybe some decent options I'm missing. Wonder what direction AA will go in.

[Super]

also i'm joking about kyle wren

[nsacpi]

also i'm joking about kyle wren

someone will take him...he would be a useful fourth outfielder

[Super]

someone will take him...he would be a useful fourth outfielder

yeah, you're right. might actually like to get him back.

[50PoundHead]

also i'm joking about kyle wren

I don't know if he'd help much, but it would probably get his uncle off Twitter.

[rico43]

Kohl Stewart could be a steal if he's healthy. Injuries KO'd him the last two seasons with Twins, but was overwhelming at brief times. He was 4th overall pick in 2013, so he fits the profile of pitchers the Braves roll the dice with.

[Chico]

I'm not sure what AA will do, but I could see him looking at his old team first. They have a pen arm who fared well in the PCL last year and a speedy switch hitting middle infielder who played well in AA last year.

[biggentleben]

Kohl Stewart could be a steal if he's healthy. Injuries KO'd him the last two seasons with Twins, but was overwhelming at brief times. He was 4th overall pick in 2013, so he fits the profile of pitchers the Braves roll the dice with.

I cannot imagine they'd pluck him for an MLB job, though. He's a prime trade candidate if anyone wanted him based on his attitude (which is why he's missed a good chunk of the time, not so much actual injury).

If looking at the Twins, the target would be Daniel Bard's brother Luke, a former Georgia Tech guy that struck out nearly 100 batters in relief last season in the minors.

I put up an offseason blueprint this week that had a Rule 5 page to it: https://calltothepen.com/2017/11/26/atlanta-braves-blueprint-offseason/5/

[mqt]

Kohl Stewart could be a steal if he's healthy. Injuries KO'd him the last two seasons with Twins, but was overwhelming at brief times. He was 4th overall pick in 2013, so he fits the profile of pitchers the Braves roll the dice with.

To be fair, we don't really know what kind of pitcher the Braves are going to target anymore. Coppy isn't walking through that door.

[50PoundHead]

someone will take him...he would be a useful fourth outfielder

Problem with Wren is that he projects as a 5th OF. As in the case of Mike Adams (although at a different position), guys like Wren aren't that difficult to find.

[clvclv]

It's going to be tough for us to carry a Rule V guy that's essentially a non-contributor - like a 3rd C or 5th OF - but I'd think you have to at least consider a guy like Dom Nunez who could be in the Catcher mix next season or Wes Rogers who projects as a perfect 4th OF candidate in 2018 as well.

[biggentleben]

It's going to be tough for us to carry a Rule V guy that's essentially a non-contributor - like a 3rd C or 5th OF - but I'd think you have to at least consider a guy like Dom Nunez who could be in the Catcher mix next season or Wes Rogers who projects as a perfect 4th OF candidate in 2018 as well.

Exactly. I like them both quite a bit. Espinal is still my #1 target because of his arm and the ability he'd bring right away to any bullpen.

[clvclv]

Need to figure out where Ben's roster updates are coming from (since they're much better than the team's website) - I completely forgot about Nick Burdi until scanning his article.

[Super]

wes rogers is a guy i missed in my first scan. 70 steals last year.

[nsacpi]

Problem with Wren is that he projects as a 5th OF. As in the case of Mike Adams (although at a different position), guys like Wren aren't that difficult to find.

Lefty, with good speed, plays center. Not that difficult to find. But not a dime a dozen either. Goods guys to have whether on the bench or in AAA. Btw there is another ex-Brave in a similar mold that I would like us to sign to a minor league deal and stash away in AAA. Todd Cunningham. He's improved his OBP numbers quite a bit the last two years in AAA.

[biggentleben]

Need to figure out where Ben's roster updates are coming from (since they're much better than the team's website) - I completely forgot about Nick Burdi until scanning his article.

Roster Resource primarily. In the minor league section, their little notation a bit to the side where it'd say how many options a guy has left will indicate if he's Rule 5 eligible. The list posted at the top is good, but for some reason, it didn't translate perfectly - I let the guys at RR know, but haven't heard back from them, usually they let me know when I notice something and they've fixed it, thanking me for the heads-up.

The Twins actually have some intriguing guys for Rule 5 that do highlight that system's depth - Ryan Eades has now transitioned to the bullpen and showed in the AFL how well he could do just in a bullpen role. Max Murphy is one of the best defensive outfielders in all the minor leagues, winning the defensive outfielder of the year award in the Florida State League last year in a half-season. His bat is still a bit off, but the defense could carry for a year if you're willing to sit on him for a year. Reed has struggled with injuries since being drafted out of Oregon, but he has a monster arm when healthy. Baxendale could fill a similar role to a Cristhian Martinez for someone, and then Bard and Burdi have been discussed. Burdi would be another guy to hold onto for a year on the DL as a Rule 5 while he sits out 2018 with TJS.

[clvclv]

Actually might need to check and update your spreadsheet Ben - we backed away from Burdi in the Garcia deal and accepted Ynoa. Knew something seemed odd when you mentioned him.

[biggentleben]

Actually might need to check and update your spreadsheet Ben - we backed away from Burdi in the Garcia deal and accepted Ynoa. Knew something seemed odd when you mentioned him.

Oh! Now I get what you're saying...go back in there to the previous page! The whole post is an offseason blueprint. On the previous page, I have the Braves trading Matt Kemp in a deal to the Twins and getting Burdi back.

[clvclv]

Oh! Now I get what you're saying...go back in there to the previous page! The whole post is an offseason blueprint. On the previous page, I have the Braves trading Matt Kemp in a deal to the Twins and getting Burdi back.

Gotcha - thanks. That's what I get for scanning stuff quickly.

:facepalm:

[Enscheff]

I wonder if the Braves have a good idea yet about TD’s and DPete’s trade value, considering that’s why they left them unprotected.

[Horsehide Harry]

Supposedly Braves and Jays have discussed Muk.

How about Muk and $2M for Max Pentecost before rule 5 and the Braves protect him? Jays stand to potentially lose him in rule 5 otherwise since they left him unprotected. Essentially Braves buy him for $2M and shed Muk. Jays get Muk at $8.5M and give up someone they were likely to lose anyway.

[Enscheff]

Supposedly Braves and Jays have discussed Muk.

How about Muk and $2M for Max Pentecost before rule 5 and the Braves protect him? Jays stand to potentially lose him in rule 5 otherwise since they left him unprotected. Essentially Braves buy him for $2M and shed Muk. Jays get Muk at $8.5M and give up someone they were likely to lose anyway.

How does protecting a player after the 40 man protection cut off date work?

[Horsehide Harry]

How does protecting a player after the 40 man protection cut off date work?

I could be wrong but I think unprotected players can be traded right up until the draft. The new acquiring team has to either protect him or leave him available for the draft.

[Horsehide Harry]

Advantages are that Braves wouldn't be subject to keeping him at ML level or have to offer back and they could still take others in rule 5.

[clvclv]

I could be wrong but I think unprotected players can be traded right up until the draft. The new acquiring team has to either protect him or leave him available for the draft.

You gotta be kidding me - the blackjack dealer didn't know that? What an uninformed idiotic yankee.

:facepalm:

[Enscheff]

You gotta be kidding me - the blackjack dealer didn't know that? What an uninformed idiotic yankee.

:facepalm:

LOL...clvderpclv calling someone an idiot is pure comedic gold!

Have the Braves been able to ascertain the trade value of TD and DPete yet? When should I expect that MAdams for Odorizzi trade to go down?

[Enscheff]

I could be wrong but I think unprotected players can be traded right up until the draft. The new acquiring team has to either protect him or leave him available for the draft.

Where do you see this? The date to set 40 man rosters for the R5 draft was 10/20. I can't think of any trades like this going down to reference.

[Enscheff]

Best reference I could find: https://247sports.com/mlb/indians/Article/Rule-5-Draft-FAQ-105170462

"The team can still add players via trade and free agency after this date (10/20), provided they remove a player from the 40-man roster to add the acquired player (if no 40-man spot(s) is open)."

[Horsehide Harry]

Best reference I could find: https://247sports.com/mlb/indians/Article/Rule-5-Draft-FAQ-105170462

"The team can still add players via trade and free agency after this date (10/20), provided they remove a player from the 40-man roster to add the acquired player (if no 40-man spot(s) is open)."

This. Let's say Braves sign a FA today and are at 40 man. They would have to add new FA and take protection off someone on the 40 man OR cut a player outright.

In same way, if Braves make a trade and they are at 40 man, send one guy off the 40 man but get back 3 that need to be on the 40 man, then same situation.

[50PoundHead]

Supposedly Braves and Jays have discussed Muk.

How about Muk and $2M for Max Pentecost before rule 5 and the Braves protect him? Jays stand to potentially lose him in rule 5 otherwise since they left him unprotected. Essentially Braves buy him for $2M and shed Muk. Jays get Muk at $8.5M and give up someone they were likely to lose anyway.

I don't know why the Braves would put Pentecost on the 40-man if they obtained him. I highly doubt he's drafted by anyone. Same logic would apply to him as Dustin Peterson.

[clvclv]

I don't know why the Braves would put Pentecost on the 40-man if they obtained him. I highly doubt he's drafted by anyone. Same logic would apply to him as Dustin Peterson.

Unlikely? Sure. Kinda like having a chance to swipe Dom Nunez away from Colorado though. If they find a taker for or non-tender Adams, you could go with 4 OFs (Ender, Markakis, Kemp, Lane Adams) until whenever someone's traded and Acuna gets promoted and use Pentecost/Nunez strictly as a PH - more or less the same thing Matt will be if he's kept anyway (plus he'd arguably be more useful as an emergency Catcher anyway).

If you're going to take a stab at someone that could be in the mix to catch as early as next season, Nunez makes a lot more sense to me since you really don't know if Pentecost can stick behind the plate anyway - potentially giving you 2 Catchers you're going to have try to convert to LFs if Jackson can't stick back there either.

[50PoundHead]

Unlikely? Sure. Kinda like having a chance to swipe Dom Nunez away from Colorado though. If they find a taker for or non-tender Adams, you could go with 4 OFs (Ender, Markakis, Kemp, Lane Adams) until whenever someone's traded and Acuna gets promoted and use Pentecost/Nunez strictly as a PH - more or less the same thing Matt will be if he's kept anyway (plus he'd arguably be more useful as an emergency Catcher anyway).

If you're going to take a stab at someone that could be in the mix to catch as early as next season, Nunez makes a lot more sense to me since you really don't know if Pentecost can stick behind the plate anyway - potentially giving you 2 Catchers you're going to have try to convert to LFs if Jackson can't stick back there either.

At least Nunez has played at AA. Pentecost may develop into something, but he's never played above High A and he's caught a grand total of 30 games over his minor league career. Braves likely aren't going anywhere, but I can't see how having him on the 25-man roster for the season would make that much sense. Nunez has played in AA and while there are questions about his bat, reports on his defense are encouraging, so if you are going with one of these two, I think Nunez would be the better choice.

[Horsehide Harry]

At least Nunez has played at AA. Pentecost may develop into something, but he's never played above High A and he's caught a grand total of 30 games over his minor league career. Braves likely aren't going anywhere, but I can't see how having him on the 25-man roster for the season would make that much sense. Nunez has played in AA and while there are questions about his bat, reports on his defense are encouraging, so if you are going with one of these two, I think Nunez would be the better choice.

I'm not saying take him in the rule 5 where you have to keep him at the ML level. I'm saying trade Muk and cash for him now, protect him on the 40 man so he's not eligible for the rule 5, then start him at AA and see what you have.

[clvclv]

I'm not saying take him in the rule 5 where you have to keep him at the ML level. I'm saying trade Muk and cash for him now, protect him on the 40 man so he's not eligible for the rule 5, then start him at AA and see what you have.

Can't imagine he (or Nunez) wouldn't fit better on our 40-Man Roster than Brothers, Adonis, Hursh, Santana or Jace. To be honest, I'm not sure I wouldn't just go ahead and DFA all 5 of them now.

[biggentleben]

Where do you see this? The date to set 40 man rosters for the R5 draft was 10/20. I can't think of any trades like this going down to reference.

Your own Braves made such a deal last season.

Alex Jackson was only traded with a PTBNL because the Braves had a preference for the second player in the trade, and that second player was Rule 5 eligible. If the Braves had acquired him, they would have had to choose whether or not to protect him, so they had the Mariners hold the player, and if he got picked, they would move down their preference list to the #2 guy. After Rule 5 passed, the Braves got his medicals and chose to pass, and they went for Pike instead.

[50PoundHead]

I'm not saying take him in the rule 5 where you have to keep him at the ML level. I'm saying trade Muk and cash for him now, protect him on the 40 man so he's not eligible for the rule 5, then start him at AA and see what you have.

I highly doubt Pentecost will be drafted.

[biggentleben]

I highly doubt Pentecost will be drafted.

I don't. He showed well in the catching he did in Arizona, and every team had multiple reps there. He didn't get a ton of game time behind the plate, but he did a lot of working out behind the plate and showed very well.

[Enscheff]

I don't. He showed well in the catching he did in Arizona, and every team had multiple reps there. He didn't get a ton of game time behind the plate, but he did a lot of working out behind the plate and showed very well.

Just so I'm clear...

You think a guy who played 19 games at C and 22 games at 1B in A+ ball during the 2017 season is going to be picked up by a team and kept on their 25 man roster all season?

[TheBravos]

It doesn’t surprise me at all with TD. Has some power, but is not ready...probably will never be ready lol. DPete does a little...he was going to most likely be our 4th outfielder last year before the injury. He could come back and easily compete for that on most teams next year.

[biggentleben]

Just so I'm clear...

You think a guy who played 19 games at C and 22 games at 1B in A+ ball during the 2017 season is going to be picked up by a team and kept on their 25 man roster all season?

I'm thinking there's a chance that he's kept for his bat and the ability to be a 3rd catcher/PH. Cordoba hadn't played any full-season ball at all before last season. Torrens hadn't played above low-A and only 40 games at low-A. In the AFL, Pentecost was finally healthy and showed well behind the plate. That could be enough for a team that believes in his pedigree.

[Enscheff]

I'm thinking there's a chance that he's kept for his bat and the ability to be a 3rd catcher/PH. Cordoba hadn't played any full-season ball at all before last season. Torrens hadn't played above low-A and only 40 games at low-A. In the AFL, Pentecost was finally healthy and showed well behind the plate. That could be enough for a team that believes in his pedigree.

You realize SD grabbed those players and stashed them on the bench with the intentions of sending them back to the minors in 2018, right?

That is the first time I have ever seen a team completely punt 2 roster spots like that. You think something similar is going to happen with Pentecost?

[biggentleben]

You realize SD grabbed those players and stashed them on the bench with the intentions of sending them back to the minors in 2018, right?

That is the first time I have ever seen a team completely punt 2 roster spots like that. You think something similar is going to happen with Pentecost?

Might be the first you can remember, but it's happened previously. Everth Cabrera had never played above A-ball (and only had a handful of games even at high-A) before being selected and sticking for a full season and starting most of the year. Johan Santana had never thrown above A ball. Those are two off the top of my head.

And Torrens had that purpose, but Cordoba was picked to play, and he did, appearing in 100 games.

[Enscheff]

Might be the first you can remember, but it's happened previously. Everth Cabrera had never played above A-ball (and only had a handful of games even at high-A) before being selected and sticking for a full season and starting most of the year. Johan Santana had never thrown above A ball. Those are two off the top of my head.

And Torrens had that purpose, but Cordoba was picked to play, and he did, appearing in 100 games.

He certainly did play...and posted -1.1 WAR.

[blueagleace1]

He certainly did play...and posted -1.1 WAR.

Not sure how many games off the top of my head, but I feel like he played the majority of his time in the OF a position I don't believe he had previously played prior to playing it at the major league level.

Just something to consider.

[biggentleben]

Not sure how many games off the top of my head, but I feel like he played the majority of his time in the OF a position I don't believe he had previously played prior to playing it at the major league level.

Just something to consider.

Exactly, primarily as a defensive replacement as well. I think he had something like 250 plate appearances.

[Enscheff]

Not sure how many games off the top of my head, but I feel like he played the majority of his time in the OF a position I don't believe he had previously played prior to playing it at the major league level.

Just something to consider.

SD stashed him because they didn’t need to win. They played him because they were terrible.

Both will be in the minors in 2018, as planned from the moment they were drafted.

[Enscheff]

Exactly, primarily as a defensive replacement as well. I think he had something like 250 plate appearances.

Both players SD picked will be in the minors in 2918 because that’s why they were selected.

If Pentecost is drafted it will be for exactly the same reason.

[blueagleace1]

SD stashed him because they didn’t need to win. They played him because they were terrible.

Both will be in the minors in 2018, as planned from the moment they were drafted.

I'm not disagreeing with you. You give such good points on this board but anytime someone has a different opinion or view other than the one you feel is right, you attack them and become defensive. There's always going to be multiple opinions (that's what makes a discussion) so just because someone doesn't agree with you, just try hearing them out instead of instantly going on the defensive. Like I said, you're extremely savvy and bring awesome points up in tons of threads, so keep that up but just try to be a little more open to what others say.

[50PoundHead]

If Pentecost is drafted, it would have to be by an AL team where he could DH in addition to catch occasionally.

[biggentleben]

If Pentecost is drafted, it would have to be by an AL team where he could DH in addition to catch occasionally.

...or an NL team willing to let him play C/1B and pinch hit a bunch while working with someone they believe is very good instructing behind the plate.

I don't disagree, though. He's not the top rule 5 option, but he certainly will draw interest and dismissing him as if he won't is foolhardy.

[Enscheff]

...or an NL team willing to let him play C/1B and pinch hit a bunch while working with someone they believe is very good instructing behind the plate.

I don't disagree, though. He's not the top rule 5 option, but he certainly will draw interest and dismissing him as if he won't is foolhardy.

That’s about the most non-committal prediction I’ve ever read haha.

He won’t be picked in the R5 draft unless it’s to stash him on the bench before sending him back to the minors like SD did last year with the guys they took.

[50PoundHead]

...or an NL team willing to let him play C/1B and pinch hit a bunch while working with someone they believe is very good instructing behind the plate.

I don't disagree, though. He's not the top rule 5 option, but he certainly will draw interest and dismissing him as if he won't is foolhardy.

NL benches are just too short of a guy like Pentecost. It's different when your 25th guy can play extensively in the field as a defensive back-up. Someone pointed out Cabrera and I would add when the Phils kept Goeddel around for 2016. A third catcher is extremely rare these days as teams opt for extra bullpen arms. I just don't see a situation where Pentecost gets 100 ABs where he isn't DH-ing.

[Enscheff]

FG just posted a list of the best R5 guys according to KATOH projections.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/katohs-guide-to-the-2017-rule-5-draft/

By far the most interesting position player in the article is Reyes from SD.

Would he be worth a roster spot coming off a wrist injury? Maybe if the Braves haven’t fixed LF and are punting the position for another season.

[nsacpi]

Nestor Cortes looks to be worth a shot

[Chico]

Cortes could be interesting. He’s a junkball lefty who would fit best as a swing man long reliever. We don’t seem to have a need for that now, but I’m a fan of adding pieces that allow you to trade current pieces.

[nsacpi]

Cortes could be interesting. He’s a junkball lefty who would fit best as a swing man long reliever. We don’t seem to have a need for that now, but I’m a fan of adding pieces that allow you to trade current pieces.

He doesn't light up the radar gun but his stuff plays up because he has some deception in his delivery.

When you look at performance adjusted for age and level, the results he had in AAA last year at age 22 are very good. 10.6 Ks per nine and 2.1 Ks per nine. Compares favorably to Sims and Fried, who are both a year older.

[Enscheff]

I highly doubt Pentecost will be drafted.


I don't. He showed well in the catching he did in Arizona, and every team had multiple reps there. He didn't get a ton of game time behind the plate, but he did a lot of working out behind the plate and showed very well.


I'm thinking there's a chance that he's kept for his bat and the ability to be a 3rd catcher/PH. Cordoba hadn't played any full-season ball at all before last season. Torrens hadn't played above low-A and only 40 games at low-A. In the AFL, Pentecost was finally healthy and showed well behind the plate. That could be enough for a team that believes in his pedigree.

Ben, was Max Pentecost picked in the R5 draft to be kept on a MLB roster as a 3rd catcher and PHer?

[Super]

Ben, was Max Pentecost picked in the R5 draft to be kept on a MLB roster as a 3rd catcher and PHer?

who hurt you dear child