Mets Signing Frazier while Andropolus fiddles

[rico43]

The do-nothing attitude of the Braves have now cost them Todd Frazier. Reported by Ken Rosenthal that he gets two years, $17 million from Mets pending physical.

One of my closest friends (and biggest sports fans) says that this is the first spring since he was a kid that he gets absolutely to buzz about the Braves starting spring training. I am about there with him. This boring and no fun; I wish I felt they actually had a strategy besides A.A. taking his sweet time learning who's who in the farm system.'

[thethe]

I'm confused why so many people want to spend money on Frazier when camargos production won't be that much of a decline.

[buck75]

I'm confused why so many people want to spend money on Frazier when camargos production won't be that much of a decline.

I’m hoping that Riley and Camargo both continue to improve this season

[Braves1976]

This isn't a surprise, Frazier obviously wanted to stay in NY all along. He might not have even considered us if we made a bigger offer and additional year.

This means one less team for Nunez and I still hope we sign him.

[Carp]

I think it was pretty apparent Frazier wanted to stay in NY all things considered (assuming he wasn't getting a substantially larger offer somewhere else).

[Enscheff]

The fact the Braves could not or would not beat a 2/17 deal for Frazier should end all doubts that they have almost no money to spend in 2018 and are completely punting 2018.

Frazier on a 2 year deal in no way blocks Riley in any realistic scenario.

[Braves1976]

I think it was pretty apparent Frazier wanted to stay in NY all things considered (assuming he wasn't getting a substantially larger offer somewhere else).

Yes, you could tell that in his interviews and reports from multiple outlets including some shared on MLBTR.

[thethe]

The fact the Braves could not or would not beat a 2/17 deal for Frazier should end all doubts that they have almost no money to spend in 2018 and are completely punting 2018.

Frazier on a 2 year deal in no way blocks Riley in any realistic scenario.

You could certainly be right and I think you've been proven to be right more than others but there are many different reasons why holding money in reserve going into the season makes a lot of sense.

[Carp]

The fact the Braves could not or would not beat a 2/17 deal for Frazier should end all doubts that they have almost no money to spend in 2018 and are completely punting 2018.

Frazier on a 2 year deal in no way blocks Riley in any realistic scenario.

Or Frazier wanted to stay in NY and a 2/20 deal wasn't going to move the needle.

[Braves1976]

MLBTR: "New York held an obvious draw for Frazier, a New Jersey native who got a taste of playing near his home town last year with the Yankees. As Jon Heyman of Fan Rag notes on Twitter, that geographic preference seemingly played a role in the agreement that has now come together. It may have helped the Mets land a solid player at a reasonable price."

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

best part of this deal is getting to hear chip say “down goes frazier” 30+ times a year for the next two years

[thewupk]

The do-nothing attitude of the Braves have now cost them Todd Frazier. Reported by Ken Rosenthal that he gets two years, $17 million from Mets pending physical.

One of my closest friends (and biggest sports fans) says that this is the first spring since he was a kid that he gets absolutely to buzz about the Braves starting spring training. I am about there with him. This boring and no fun; I wish I felt they actually had a strategy besides A.A. taking his sweet time learning who's who in the farm system.'

Braves have no money and are punting 2018. It's been obvious since the Kemp trade.

[Enscheff]

Braves have no money and are punting 2018. It's been obvious since the Kemp trade.

Careful now, Carp doesn’t believe you.

[Horsehide Harry]

Braves have no money and are punting 2018. It's been obvious since the Kemp trade.

Should have been punting 2018 since 2015.....

[jsebe10]

Braves have no money and are punting 2018. It's been obvious since the Kemp trade.

But how!?! How are we broke? We’ve been literally bandaiding this roster for a few seasons now. Major money on the books is Freeman, Ender, and Markakis...the rest are bargain guys...how could we possibly be broke?

[Braves1976]

@JonHeyman
Frazier, toms river, nj, product, made clear he wanted to be in NY. gets his wish crosstown with mets. @Ken_Rosenthal 1st
8:54 PM - Feb 5, 2018

[thewupk]

But how!?! How are we broke? We’ve been literally bandaiding this roster for a few seasons now. Major money on the books is Freeman, Ender, and Markakis...the rest are bargain guys...how could we possibly be broke?

Braves added like 28 million in salary for 2018 in the Kemp trade. They did this so they could clear Kemp's salary in 2019.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SgDNu7upLALXCf59fcrANGZtDLdiRaL7PB1aUcpGB0M/pubhtml

Cots has the Braves at 116 million right now.

[Enscheff]

But how!?! How are we broke? We’ve been literally bandaiding this roster for a few seasons now. Major money on the books is Freeman, Ender, and Markakis...the rest are bargain guys...how could we possibly be broke?

2.5 million in attendance with a terrible TV deal correlates to a payroll around $110M-$120M, even with the boosted revenue from The Battery. Folks around here love to try their hand at voodoo accounting to convince themselves the Braves have more to spend, but that’s the reality of the situation.

If the Braves start drawing 2.8M+ they should enjoy enough of a revenue bump to support a payroll of $130M+. That jump in attendance isn’t happening until they start making noise in the playoff race.

[Bravesfannchar]

He wanted to stay in NY and limited his market to 2 teams.

[Carp]

MLBTR: "New York held an obvious draw for Frazier, a New Jersey native who got a taste of playing near his home town last year with the Yankees. As Jon Heyman of Fan Rag notes on Twitter, that geographic preference seemingly played a role in the agreement that has now come together. It may have helped the Mets land a solid player at a reasonable price."


Careful now, Carp doesn’t believe you.

Just gonna leave this here.

You could be entirely right about the Braves. You are dead wrong about Frazier

[UNCBlue012]

Don't worry guys, we're still getting Machado. Amiright?

[TheBravos]

If he was really determined to stay in NY....this still helps us. It brings the market even lower. The bad....we definitely aren’t getting rid of Nick now lol.

[nsacpi]

If he was really determined to stay in NY....this still helps us. It brings the market even lower. The bad....we definitely aren’t getting rid of Nick now lol.

we have to see if Frazier was a special case or not

[Carp]

@JonHeyman
Frazier, toms river, nj, product, made clear he wanted to be in NY. gets his wish crosstown with mets. @Ken_Rosenthal 1st
8:54 PM - Feb 5, 2018

Careful now, Enscheff doesn't believe you.

[Enscheff]

Careful now, Enscheff doesn't believe you.

Ahh yes, the famous home town discount. Never mind the fact that nobody else needs a 3b. That’s where he wanted to play!

Too bad the Braves never seem to get one of those discounts.

[Tapate50]

Ahh yes, the famous home town discount. Never mind the fact that nobody else needs a 3b. That’s where he wanted to play!

Too bad the Braves never seem to get one of those discounts.

I wanna see Posey exercise a NTC to come home once SF rebuilds.

[Enscheff]

I wanna see Posey exercise a NTC to come home once SF rebuilds.

He will probably play for damn near free since he loved the Braves so much as a kid!! Any money he is already owed will be given back to the Braves so they can sign another FA!!

[Tapate50]

He will probably play for damn near free since he loved the Braves so much as a kid!! Any money he is already owed will be given back to the Braves so they can sign another FA!!

Now we are getting somewhere. I heard Chipper was gonna foot the bill for one FA signing a year now that he's in the HOF. Bobby Cox is going to privately fund a IFA signing for us as well.

[Chico]

I assumed Todd would end up with the Yankees or Mets, but figured it’d be more like 2/24. That’s a great deal for them.

I can understand AA wanted to be patient, but I think he’s misreading the market on the Atlanta sports fan. I think attendance is going to take a big dip this year.

[thewupk]

I assumed Todd would end up with the Yankees or Mets, but figured it’d be more like 2/24. That’s a great deal for them.

I can understand AA wanted to be patient, but I think he’s misreading the market on the Atlanta sports fan. I think attendance is going to take a big dip this year.

It will since the new stadium smell will be gone. Only way to get fans is just to create a winner. He's betting on 2019 being that year. Even with a dip in attendance the Braves will have a lot of money to play with next year.

[JohnAdcox]

Too bad the Braves never seem to get one of those discounts.

Chipper?

[Enscheff]

I assumed Todd would end up with the Yankees or Mets, but figured it’d be more like 2/24. That’s a great deal for them.

I can understand AA wanted to be patient, but I think he’s misreading the market on the Atlanta sports fan. I think attendance is going to take a big dip this year.

There may have been some long term value to be gained by putting a better team on the field this season and enjoying an increase in attendance, and there were certainly moves that could have been made to make that happen. Trading for Ozuna and signing Frazier would have made the Braves a pretty clear playoff contender.

Instead, they decided to spend the bulk of their available payroll to unload Kemp, and they will likely see an attendance dip down to what they drew in the last 3 seasons at Turner (though I don't think it goes all the way down to 2 million, probably around 2.3 million), rather than a bump up to the ~2.8 million range. That's a swing in attendance of ~500k, which is what?...$50M in revenue?

Now they will be lucky to project 2.5 million in 2019, and payroll for THAT season will also suffer as a result.

Projections:
2018 - 2.3 million fans, $110M-$120M payroll, team should finish with around 80 wins, excitement grows for 2019
2019 - 2.5 million fans, $120M-$130M payroll (same as 2017), team should make a WC run, excitement grows for 2020
2020 - 2.5+ million fans, $130M+ payroll, team should make playoff appearance, excitement grows for 2021
2021 - 2.8 million fans, $140M+ payroll, team should be in the middle of their contention window, excitement has plateaued
2022+ - 2.5 million fans, $130M-$140M payroll, attendance drops in Atlanta even when the team is good, fans yawn

At no point will those payrolls be able to crack the Top 10 as sold to the fans when the new park opened. In fact, by then, they will still be below MLB average.

[Enscheff]

Chipper?

Are Chipper Jones' and Todd Frazier's situations at all similar?

[nsacpi]

It will since the new stadium smell will be gone. Only way to get fans is just to create a winner. He's betting on 2019 being that year. Even with a dip in attendance the Braves will have a lot of money to play with next year.

we could build another new stadium

[Jaw]

There may have been some long term value to be gained by putting a better team on the field this season and enjoying an increase in attendance, and there were certainly moves that could have been made to make that happen. Trading for Ozuna and signing Frazier would have made the Braves a pretty clear playoff contender.

Instead, they decided to spend the bulk of their available payroll to unload Kemp, and they will likely see an attendance dip down to what they drew in the last 3 seasons at Turner (though I don't think it goes all the way down to 2 million, probably around 2.3 million), rather than a bump up to the ~2.8 million range. That's a swing in attendance of ~500k, which is what?...$50M in revenue?

Now they will be lucky to project 2.5 million in 2019, and payroll for THAT season will also suffer as a result.

Projections:
2018 - 2.3 million fans, $110M-$120M payroll, team should finish with around 80 wins, excitement grows for 2019
2019 - 2.5 million fans, $120M-$130M payroll (same as 2017), team should make a WC run, excitement grows for 2020
2020 - 2.5+ million fans, $130M+ payroll, team should make playoff appearance, excitement grows for 2021
2021 - 2.8 million fans, $140M+ payroll, team should be in the middle of their contention window, excitement has plateaued
2022+ - 2.5 million fans, $130M-$140M payroll, attendance drops in Atlanta even when the team is good, fans yawn

At no point will those payrolls be able to crack the Top 10 as sold to the fans when the new park opened. In fact, by then, they will still be below MLB average.

I think the continued success of The Battery will help revenue both by increasing attendance and generating revenue outside of attendance. Unfortunately, we still have a terrible TV contract that is really holding us back. I also think the current TV value boom will likely bust prior to us being able to capitalize on it, and that basically leads to a future that resembles Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. Payroll has fallen from top 3 to bottom third in 20 years. I miss Ted. And TBS.

[thethe]

How much progress was made at the battery?

[Enscheff]

I think the continued success of The Battery will help revenue both by increasing attendance and generating revenue outside of attendance. Unfortunately, we still have a terrible TV contract that is really holding us back. I also think the current TV value boom will likely bust prior to us being able to capitalize on it, and that basically leads to a future that resembles Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. Payroll has fallen from top 3 to bottom third in 20 years. I miss Ted. And TBS.

While I disagree that the Battery is some money making machine that will make any real difference, I agree with the part in bold.

Very unfortunate for the Braves. They are going to be at a severe competitive disadvantage for at least the next 20 years.

[Carp]

Ahh yes, the famous home town discount. Never mind the fact that nobody else needs a 3b. That’s where he wanted to play!

Too bad the Braves never seem to get one of those discounts.

**Multiple sources reporting something.


Enscheff: Lies! I'm never wrong!

[thewupk]

we could build another new stadium

In about 19 years

[Super]

i mean, it's pretty clear Frazier took less money to stay in NY. How much less, and how it affected the Braves, we don't know.

[Southcack77]

I think the continued success of The Battery will help revenue both by increasing attendance and generating revenue outside of attendance. Unfortunately, we still have a terrible TV contract that is really holding us back. I also think the current TV value boom will likely bust prior to us being able to capitalize on it, and that basically leads to a future that resembles Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. Payroll has fallen from top 3 to bottom third in 20 years. I miss Ted. And TBS.


The Braves signed a 20 year deal in 2008 that was well below their market value in 2008.

They are getting a big revenue boost out of the new deal whether the television deals are still expanding or not.

There is no particular reason to believe that tv money will be going backward. I don't think we've seen examples of that. If anything, stable TV money would be a benefit to Atlanta as you are most vulnerable just after you've signed the deal. Ask the SEC, which ended up expanding to create new content due to a signing a long deal that turned out to not be market setting for very long.

[Enscheff]

i mean, it's pretty clear Frazier took less money to stay in NY. How much less, and how it affected the Braves, we don't know.

Is it? What other teams were bidding on Frazier?

Other than some very speculative talk about the Yanks, I hadn't seen a single rumor about interest in Frazier until he signed with the Mets.

Show me links to the reported interest from other teams. Thanks.

[Jaw]

How much progress was made at the battery?

I haven't been by there in a while. The Omni finally opened last month, and I think that was the last major space to be completed in the actual three building Battery development. I think the Braves also have ownership of some other large parcels around the stadium that will be used primarily for office space, but I can't find the article I'm looking for.

[Southcack77]

Your reminder that Braves revenues were up 70% in 2017 through Q3.

http://www.myajc.com/sports/braves-break-down-sources-revenue-increase/sWFuLxMsmqyxfBEv7VvakI/

A little more scientific than looking at raw attendance and payrolls and trying to guess whether the Braves were more profitable or not.

[Enscheff]

Your reminder that Braves revenues were up 70% in 2017 through Q3.

http://www.myajc.com/sports/braves-break-down-sources-revenue-increase/sWFuLxMsmqyxfBEv7VvakI/

A little more scientific than looking at raw attendance and payrolls and trying to guess whether the Braves were more profitable or not.

I look forward to your explanation as to why payroll went down this year then.

I also would like to see your payroll projections through the early 2020s. We will see who is right. Here's a potential spoiler: it's never been you.

[Jaw]

The Braves signed a 20 year deal in 2008 that was well below their market value in 2008.

They are getting a big revenue boost out of the new deal whether the television deals are still expanding or not.

There is no particular reason to believe that tv money will be going backward. I don't think we've seen examples of that. If anything, stable TV money would be a benefit to Atlanta as you are most vulnerable just after you've signed the deal. Ask the SEC, which ended up expanding to create new content due to a signing a long deal that turned out to not be market setting for very long.

A big TV revenue boost doesn't help much if a majority of the other teams get a bigger revenue boost from TV money. The Braves TV deal is substandard when compared to the rest of MLB.

As for the idea that TV money isn't going to decrease, the trend of the past few years is pretty well established at this point- subscribers are fleeing:

http://www.businessinsider.com/decline-of-us-tv-subscribers-2015-4
According to a chart by BI Intelligence, based on data from The Convergence Consulting Group, the number of households paying for TV peaked in 2012. There were 97.6 million US households with TV subscriptions in 2012, but that number declined by about 150,000 in 2013, and another 260,000 in 2014.

http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/espn-down-1-5-million-subscribers-as-cable-sports-networks-keep-shedding-viewers.html
The numbers of subscribers for cable sports networks continue to plummet, and ESPN is once again one of the hardest-hit. ESPN had a peak of 99 million subscribers in 2013, but fell to 92 million by November 2015 and 90.8 million in February, and now they’re down even further. Sports TV Ratings recently posted the June 2016 cable coverage estimates from Nielsen, which show that ESPN has dropped by another 1.5 million subscribers, and other sports networks are falling as well.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/every-major-cable-tv-company-lost-subscribers-last-quarter/
The 11 biggest pay-TV providers in the US, representing 95 percent of the market, lost 665,000 net video subscribers in Q2 2016, Leichtman Research Group reported today. This is more than double the losses of two years ago. Previously, the companies lost 545,000 subscribers in Q2 2015, 300,000 in Q2 2014, and 350,000 in Q2 2013.

http://www.businessinsider.com/espn-subscribers-2017-3
In 2011, ESPN peaked when they topped 100 million subscribers. However, in the six years since then, their numbers have steadily fallen, down 12% to just under 88 million in the latest Nielsen estimates, according to Sports TV Ratings.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/04/worst-quarter-for-paid-tv-subscriptions-points-to-a-cord-cutting-future/
A report by MoffettNathanson found that the pay cable industry lost 762,000 subscribers in Q1 2017, the worst drop ever. To compare last year’s Q1 saw a mere 141,000 subscribers lost.
Analyst Craig Moffett said that the “Pay TV subscriber universe [shrank] at its worst ever annual rate of decline (-2.4%)” and there have been 6.5 million cord-cutter (and the new “cord-never” user who doesn’t install a Pay TV source at all) watchers since 2013.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/10/26/comcasts-loss-cable-television-subscribers-accelerates/801959001/
Cable television subscribers are leaving Comcast at a faster pace, the company reported Thursday, reflecting the impact of a consumer shift from traditional TV services to online channels and streaming services.
Philadelphia-based Comcast (CMCSA) reported a loss of 125,000 total video customers during the third quarter, up from the 34,000 loss the company logged for the April-to-June period.

So far, sports contracts have been somewhat insulated from the loss of revenue thanks to increases in the rate per subscriber for sports channels. The problem is that jacking up that rate has accelerated the "cord cutting" pace (one of the articles linked points that out, but I forgot to copy that part and I'm too disinterested to go back and find it.) The outcome is pretty clear, and it isn't in the Braves' favor.

[JohnAdcox]

Are Chipper Jones' and Todd Frazier's situations at all similar?

You had wondered when the Braves ever got a hometown discount, yes?

[Enscheff]

You had wondered when the Braves ever got a hometown discount, yes?

I think it was pretty clear I was talking about newly signed FAs from outside the organization.

Teams routinely get discounts from players who have been with the organization their entire career.

My apologies for assuming this distinction was obvious. Clearly, it was more complicated than I initially thought. Thank you for bringing to light my error in judging the overall intelligence of posters like you.

[Super]

Is it? What other teams were bidding on Frazier?

Other than some very speculative talk about the Yanks, I hadn't seen a single rumor about interest in Frazier until he signed with the Mets.

Show me links to the reported interest from other teams. Thanks.

I didn't make a claim about other teams, so not sure why you're using that straw man. it's pretty well-known he had a strong preference for New York. Someone even reported the Mets were hesitant to engage with him in fear of being used to get a better deal from the Yankees.

[Enscheff]

I didn't make a claim about other teams, so not sure why you're using that straw man. it's pretty well-known he had a strong preference for New York. Someone even reported the Mets were hesitant to engage with him in fear of being used to get a better deal from the Yankees.

Logic:

Frazier only "took a discount to play in NY" if a team outside of NY was offering him more than the teams in NY.

Without evidence that other teams outside of NY were offering him more, it is silly to say he "took a discount to play in NY".

[jpx7]

we could build another new stadium

Back to Atlanta? A return to the city should drum up excitement.

[Evad]

geez.. can't believe we missed out on a career .245 hitter.

[Enscheff]

geez.. can't believe we missed out on a career .245 hitter.

You have once again proven your player valuation skill.

[Evad]

You have once again proven your player valuation skill.

Thanks. You must have been real excited about the Melvin Upton Jr signing from a few years ago.

In a year that we aren't expected to be competitive, there was no need to go out and sign Frazier. Even if you think he will magically hit above .273 for the first time in his career at his age. He isn't as good as you think he is.

[Enscheff]

I'll just leave this here. It is Runs plotted vs several stats for all MLB teams in 2017.

Learn from it, or remain ignorant. Choice is yours.

https://i.imgur.com/szZHA8U.jpg

[Knucksie]

Thanks. You must have been real excited about the Melvin Upton Jr signing from a few years ago.

In a year that we aren't expected to be competitive, there was no need to go out and sign Frazier. Even if you think he will magically hit above .273 for the first time in his career at his age. He isn't as good as you think he is.

He's 3.0 in *some* version of WAR.

[thewupk]

I'll just leave this here. It is Runs plotted vs several stats for all MLB teams in 2017.

Learn from it, or remain ignorant. Choice is yours.


WOBA and OPS are the best indicators of runs scored for a team. Who knew?

[thewupk]

He's 3.0 in *some* version of WAR.

Smart people as far back as Branch Rickey have realized that batting average by itself is a poor indicator of a good offensive player.

[Super]

ms outside of NY were offering him more, it is silly to say he "took a discount to play in NY".

yes, the widely-reported idea that he wanted to play in new york is silly. we have no idea what offers he received, but he made it clear he wanted to remain in new york. you don't think new york teams knowing that gave them some leverage. ok, then.

[thewupk]

yes, the widely-reported idea that he wanted to play in new york is silly. we have no idea what offers he received, but he made it clear he wanted to remain in new york. you don't think new york teams knowing that gave them some leverage. ok, then.

It's obvious Frazier preferred playing closer to home. I'd also bet anything that if he received a market value offer for his production value at the beginning of the offseason that he would have taken that regardless of where it was from.

His market, like many others this year, have slowly developed if at all. The Mets/Yankees were in a position to offer him very little at this point and still sign him. He wouldn't have signed with Atlanta for that amount However if the Braves offered him 2/30 or 3/45 he would be here too. I don't think any of those offers were out there.

[Enscheff]

WOBA and OPS are the best indicators of runs scored for a team. Who knew?

I was honestly surprised at how well OPP correlates. Considering how easy it is to calculate, it makes me not want to even bother with wOBA when talking in generalities.

[thewupk]

I was honestly surprised at how well OPP correlates. Considering how easy it is to calculate, it makes me not want to even bother with wOBA when talking in generalities.

Yeah. OPS is good for a general lookup. It does undervalue OBP but I think the severity of it is dependent on the scoring environment.

[Super]

He wouldn't have signed with Atlanta for that amount However if the Braves offered him 2/30 or 3/45 he would be here too. I don't think any of those offers were out there.

right, so my point that he took less to stay in NY than he would have elsewhere seems like common sense.

[thewupk]

right, so my point that he took less to stay in NY than he would have elsewhere seems like common sense.

All offers being equal he was going to stay in New York. He signed for as little as he did because he didn't have a market.

[thethe]

Does wOBA have the highest r^2 value?

[thewupk]

Does wOBA have the highest r^2 value?

Yes. It is currently the best indicator of offensive production. Of course it involves 'fake' runs so take that as you will.

[Super]

All offers being equal he was going to stay in New York. He signed for as little as he did because he didn't have a market.

i really don't understand the need to split hairs.
of course the market suppressed his overall money.
but if he likely wouldn't have signed for 2/17 anywhere besides NY, then he was willing to take a discount to stay there. we don't know if he turned down offers for 2/20 or what have you. but his known, strong preference to stay in NY allowed the NY teams to undercut his already down value. lordy!

[thewupk]

i really don't understand the need to split hairs.
of course the market suppressed his overall money.
but if he likely wouldn't have signed for 2/17 anywhere besides NY, then he was willing to take a discount to stay there. we don't know if he turned down offers for 2/20 or what have you. but his known, strong preference to stay in NY allowed the NY teams to undercut his already down value. lordy!

Sure. I think the initial assertion that AA or anyone else from the OP dropped the ball but not signing Frazier to such a deal is off base. That type of deal wasn't available to most teams. However I think if a team offered more then he would of signed somewhere else. In either case I don't think the Braves have the money to even offer him what the Mets did.

[Enscheff]

Miggle
3:30 What would Moustakas’ price have to fall to in order to get the Braves to bite?
Steve Adams
3:31 Well they just let Frazier go to a division rival for $17MM -- so probably even less than that. I don't see it.

It's silly to say the Braves won't sign Mous unless his cost drops to that of Frazier (he represents better value even at a higher contract value), but Mr. Adams agrees with the general premise that the Braves can't afford much.

[zbhargrove]

The do-nothing attitude of the Braves have now cost them Todd Frazier. Reported by Ken Rosenthal that he gets two years, $17 million from Mets pending physical.

One of my closest friends (and biggest sports fans) says that this is the first spring since he was a kid that he gets absolutely to buzz about the Braves starting spring training. I am about there with him. This boring and no fun; I wish I felt they actually had a strategy besides A.A. taking his sweet time learning who's who in the farm system.'

Whatever man... I'm super glad we didn't waste money on Frazier. There is nothing attractive out there we need man. You're just wanting to make a deal to make a deal... simply because you're bored. That's terrible business when there's not much chance to compete and we can't even get rid of Markakis to actually upgrade. If we can't compete why not play Camargo for at least half a year to see what we have? Just so you won't be bored?

[nsacpi]

Past off-seasons the front office has done stuff just to generate buzz...glad we are not doing that anymore

[Knucksie]

i really don't understand the need to split hairs.
of course the market suppressed his overall money.
but if he likely wouldn't have signed for 2/17 anywhere besides NY, then he was willing to take a discount to stay there. we don't know if he turned down offers for 2/20 or what have you. but his known, strong preference to stay in NY allowed the NY teams to undercut his already down value. lordy!

Easy. The pea brain can't comprehend any contract signed without deference to surplus value.

[JohnAdcox]

I think it was pretty clear I was talking about newly signed FAs from outside the organization.

Teams routinely get discounts from players who have been with the organization their entire career.

My apologies for assuming this distinction was obvious. Clearly, it was more complicated than I initially thought. Thank you for bringing to light my error in judging the overall intelligence of posters like you.

See, this is why you have no friends.

[Enscheff]

See, this is why you have no friends.

What’s your excuse?

[jimsnores]

Past off-seasons the front office has done stuff just to generate buzz...glad we are not doing that anymore

Hope that continues to be the case.

[Eyeman]

Just like all the why didn't we sign Weiters talk went away, I think all the why didn't we sign Frazier or Mous chatter will go away when Camargo provides us a better value. Actually I just want Camargo out there so I can see him throw. If I were manager I might stick him out in RF sometimes, also just to see him throw.

[zitothebrave]

I like Frazier a whole lot. BUT given our window to start succeeding odds are he would be near the end of his contract at that point, and who really cares?

If we were to have made a move for Frazier it would have 2 years ago via trade when we witnessed one of the players we gave the Dodgers used as a key part in that particular trade. THen sign him to a relatively team friendly deal and that's the only way you do it.
I'd rather make a play on Donaldson, maybe if Toronto is looking to sell offer some small parts for him and then work on extending him for 3 years or so. Like Frazier he's got age and declining health as risks, but unlike Frazier he's a difference maker. He isn't just a glove with some pop, he's a glove with a whole lot of pop and the perfect pairing for Freeman.

[zitothebrave]

i really don't understand the need to split hairs.
of course the market suppressed his overall money.
but if he likely wouldn't have signed for 2/17 anywhere besides NY, then he was willing to take a discount to stay there. we don't know if he turned down offers for 2/20 or what have you. but his known, strong preference to stay in NY allowed the NY teams to undercut his already down value. lordy!

Well it's important to remember he grew up in Toms River, he probably grew up a Yankee or Met fan so I'm sure he's loving the fact that he lives real close to his family now.

[bravesfanMatt]

Does wOBA have the highest r^2 value?

So there is R^2, D^2 is what I want to know?

[JohnAdcox]

What’s your excuse?

I have one now.

[Enscheff]

I have one now.

LOL, I'd much rather have no friends in that case.

[Hawk]

LOL, I'd much rather have no friends in that case.

This guy wears jealousy well.

[Enscheff]

All offers being equal he was going to stay in New York. He signed for as little as he did because he didn't have a market.

Todd Frazier
11:07 Is my "taking a hometown discount" at all related to the fact that the two most interested teams were both in NY?
Jeff Sullivan
11:07 What a coincidence

Sometimes the FG writers make me chuckle...

[Heyward]

Bump

[The Chosen One]

This thread a candidate for all time hall of shame.

[Orphan Black]

I wouldn't mind seeing Kyle Wright or Kolby Allard get a start

[Braves1976]

Bump

Haha, I was one of the few that never wanted Frazier.

[Braves1976]

how about the threads where a lot here were bashing AA? some of this started in game threads as i recall.

[Heyward]

how about the threads where a lot here were bashing AA? some of this started in game threads as i recall.

I love AA, very excited/anxious/kinda scared in a way lol to see what he does this winter.

[Braves1976]

I love AA, very excited/anxious/kinda scared in a way lol to see what he does this winter.

what are you kinda scared of, big trade or something? Well, I guess you are all those things together but I just don't see why you'd be kinda scared too.

[The Chosen One]

what are you kinda scared of, big trade or something? Well, I guess you are all those things together but I just don't see why you'd be kinda scared too.

Going to be interesting to see how he goes into an offseason knowing what he has to work with in our system as opposed to coming in new and not wanting to mess with too much.

Also going into this offseason, regardless of what happens this October, we'll be a contender not just for the division but for the NL as well. So interested to see how he goes into winter this time as contender as opposed to last year when expectations were already low for the 2018 season.

[Braves1976]

I hope he finds a way to bring Simmons back to Atlanta.

[50PoundHead]

I think Anthropoulos played the season just about perfectly. We weren't expected to contend, so he was judicious in his moves. We outpaced our expectations by quite a healthy margin, so it's a win-win.

[Heyward]

what are you kinda scared of, big trade or something? Well, I guess you are all those things together but I just don't see why you'd be kinda scared too.

What SAV said.

I think given he has a year knowing the system, knowing our top prospects and whatnot. He'll make a big trade of some kind. Realmuto probably makes most sense given team needs, but i could see the Marlins make him their Freeman.

[The Chosen One]

I hope he finds a way to bring Simmons back to Atlanta.

We have a cost-controlled shortstop that is not a liability defensively that has hit some homeruns. Maybe they'll bite on that for Simmons. :Bunchie1:

[Braves1976]

What SAV said.

I think given he has a year knowing the system, knowing our top prospects and whatnot. He'll make a big trade of some kind. Realmuto probably makes most sense given team needs, but i could see the Marlins make him their Freeman.

As much as AA considers defense, he might try to pry Simmons away from the Angels too.

[Heyward]

As much as AA considers defense, he might try to pry Simmons away from the Angels too.

Simmons and Realmuto would be quite a coup, would assume Swanson would go back to the Angels with a couple prospects.

[thewupk]

Simmons and Realmuto would be quite a coup, would assume Swanson would go back to the Angels with a couple prospects.

Swanson and Newk for Simmons sounds fair

[The Chosen One]

Swanson and Newk for Simmons sounds fair

I'd even throw in Flaherty and Tucker just to sweeten the deal for them. Those two delivered us a few wins in April.

[50PoundHead]

Angels will be interesting to watch this off-season. They are kind of in limbo right now. Tough division (although I don't know if the A's will be as good again next season), big payroll, odd mix of players.

[Braves1976]

Swanson and Newk for Simmons sounds fair

I'd even throw in Allard if they want.

[thewupk]

Angels will be interesting to watch this off-season. They are kind of in limbo right now. Tough division (although I don't know if the A's will be as good again next season), big payroll, odd mix of players.

They are getting to the point where they should probably trade Trout for something. Team hasn't done anything really with him.

[Braves1976]

Simmons and Realmuto would be quite a coup, would assume Swanson would go back to the Angels with a couple prospects.

yea that would be cool, add both we will win NL East again barring injury.

[nsacpi]

I think the surprise this offseason will be how much AA values certain things that can't be quantified like veteran laidership and team chemistry.

[Braves1976]

I think the surprise this offseason will be how much AA values certain things that can't be quantified like veteran laidership and team chemistry.

Simmons would have great chemistry playing next to Albies, Albies was dreaming of playing with him in the past before he was moved.

[50PoundHead]

They are getting to the point where they should probably trade Trout for something. Team hasn't done anything really with him.

$87 MM going to Pujols over the next three years. They should probably do the Bobby Bonilla with him. Up it to $120 MM and spread it out over twenty years, but only if he agrees to retire. I was shocked to see that he only has one season with > .800 OPS since he signed with the Angels.

[Heyward]

They are getting to the point where they should probably trade Trout for something. Team hasn't done anything really with him.

They're gonna offer a lifetime contract to Trout this winter, i kinda hope he accepts just so he may not sign with Philly when he's a FA even though a player like Trout deserves so much better than he has been.

[The Chosen One]

They are getting to the point where they should probably trade Trout for something. Team hasn't done anything really with him.

If AA can acquire Trout and Simba without giving up Acuna or Albies he should be given a statue.

[Jaw]

Simba is the player I want above all others. The games just aren't as fun to watch as they were when he was here.

[The Chosen One]

I think the surprise this offseason will be how much AA values certain things that can't be quantified like veteran laidership and team chemistry.

Simba checks all those marks. The only person who probably wears their emotions on their sleeves when on the field as much as Ender does was Simba. Especially defensively.

[Braves1976]

Maybe rename this thread ''AA is a great fiddle player as it turns out''

Frazier is hitting .215 with a .693 OPS this year, man that is worse than Swanson. Camargo's 800+ OPS beat him easy this year.

[thewupk]

Maybe rename this thread ''AA is a great fiddle player as it turns out''

Frazier is hitting .215 with a .693 OPS this year, man that is worse than Swanson. Camargo's 800+ OPS beat him easy this year.

Camargoat at 3.4 bWAR

[cajunrevenge]

I want Simmons back too. Watched some of his Angels highlights the other day. Age isnt going to slow him down, his awareness is off the charts.

[NYCBrave]

I want Simmons back too. Watched some of his Angels highlights the other day. Age isnt going to slow him down, his awareness is off the charts.

He's only got 2 years left on his current deal. Assuming he'd even become available, which I find it hard to see, what would be the cost? 5.1 WAR last year and 5.4 this year, and signed to very reasonable contract.

[cajunrevenge]

We traded the Ozzie Smith of our generation :/

[zitothebrave]

If AA can acquire Trout and Simba without giving up Acuna or Albies he should be given a statue.

**** if we can get Trout and Simba giving up Albies and keeping Riley that would be ideal. While Albies is superior to Swanson and it's pretty clear Swanson won't hit his offensive high projection, but can you imagine the sickness of a Simmons/Swanson middle infield for defense? I mean again it would suck to lose Albies, I'd much rather have Ozzie but I wouldn't let him stop me from getting Simmons and Trout. Can you imagine if we can keep Ender having an outfield of Trout, Inciarte, and Acuna? 2 top hitters, top defense, etc.

[jimsnores]

**** if we can get Trout and Simba giving up Albies and keeping Riley that would be ideal. While Albies is superior to Swanson and it's pretty clear Swanson won't hit his offensive high projection, but can you imagine the sickness of a Simmons/Swanson middle infield for defense? I mean again it would suck to lose Albies, I'd much rather have Ozzie but I wouldn't let him stop me from getting Simmons and Trout. Can you imagine if we can keep Ender having an outfield of Trout, Inciarte, and Acuna? 2 top hitters, top defense, etc.

If the Braves wind up with Simmons and Trout without losing Acuna, please alert me so I can protect myself against the flying pigs.

[Julio3000]

Simba is the player I want above all others. The games just aren't as fun to watch as they were when he was here.

Man, no kidding. He was the sole reason I wanted to actually watch the games after the teardown. I think my initial take on that deal was the right one: wtf were we thinking?

[thewupk]

Man, no kidding. He was the sole reason I wanted to actually watch the games after the teardown. I think my initial take on that deal was the right one: wtf were we thinking?

You have to look at who was running the ship at the time. Defense clearly wasn't something they thought about so to them Simba was essentially worthless. I mean they thought Kemp was acceptable in left so yeah.