Phillies sign Kingery to 6 year deal

[thethe]

Wonder if we offered Acuna anything like Kingery just got with the phillies. Nice job philly.

[sturg33]

Wonder if we offered Acuna anything like Kingery just got with the phillies. Nice job philly.

The Phillies have signed Scott Kingery to a six-year contract through the 2023 season, general manager Matt Klentak announced today. The deal also includes three club options for the 2024, 2025 and 2026 seasons.

Kingery, the Phillies' No. 2 prospect and the No. 35 overall prospect in MLB, will make the Opening Day roster, a source told MLB.com's Todd Zolecki. The team has not yet confirmed.

[thethe]

The Phillies have signed Scott Kingery to a six-year contract through the 2023 season, general manager Matt Klentak announced today. The deal also includes three club options for the 2024, 2025 and 2026 seasons.

Kingery, the Phillies' No. 2 prospect and the No. 35 overall prospect in MLB, will make the Opening Day roster, a source told MLB.com's Todd Zolecki. The team has not yet confirmed.

Can't get upset with the front office unless we know something like this wasn't offered but something like this can't help but get me pissed. Acuna should be on the roster opening day.

[mqt]

Wonder if we offered Acuna anything like Kingery just got with the phillies. Nice job philly.
I'd guess Atlanta would be very willing to make such a deal, but Acuña would be smart to tell them to kick rocks.

[Hudson2]

I'd guess Atlanta would be very willing to make such a deal, but Acuña would be smart to tell them to kick rocks.

Your future is never guaranteed, he could have an injury outside of baseball and not play anymore. A kid his age and having 0 MLB experience would be smart to take a deal for 6-7 years.

[Freshmaker]

Pretty interesting move. Kid makes the team out of ST, and the team signs him to a 6/24 deal with 3 club options after that. Could turn out to be a really good deal for them if he pans out.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/phillies-top-prospect-scott-kingery-makes-team-lands-six-year-contract-with-options/

Edit: Oops - didn't see that this was already mentioned in the other thread

[nsacpi]

The Phillies have signed Scott Kingery to a six-year contract through the 2023 season, general manager Matt Klentak announced today. The deal also includes three club options for the 2024, 2025 and 2026 seasons.

Kingery, the Phillies' No. 2 prospect and the No. 35 overall prospect in MLB, will make the Opening Day roster, a source told MLB.com's Todd Zolecki. The team has not yet confirmed.

Fair deal imo and one that could set a precedent for other Top 50 prospects. Obviously a guy in the Top 10 or someone like Acuna who is consensus #1 would command more.

[Slippyjms]

8/40 on Acuna with 2 15 mil team options?

[thethe]

Fair deal imo and one that could set a precedent for other Top 50 prospects. Obviously a guy in the Top 10 or someone like Acuna who is consensus #1 would command more.

So what do you do? Is the option years where you make it more tailored to a prospects of his pedigree? Are the option years worth 20M per?

[clvclv]

So what do you do? Is the option years where you make it more tailored to a prospects of his pedigree? Are the option years worth 20M per?

The option years are worth whatever it takes to get them to sign - if they flop, you just cut them loose at that point. That's why I was in favor of locking down someone like Freeman - he's likely going to be at least "good enough" to be the second or third lefty in your pen for the next 3 or so years. If you can avoid having to pay him inflated salaries in arbitration, that provides you with more money to go out and get a Donaldson-type on a 3-4 year deal even if it costs you a ton. A $2-$3 million/per outlay for Freeman leaves you with several million more to spend on a mega-deal guy than if you were paying middle-relievers their market-rate these days.

[nsacpi]

So what do you do? Is the option years where you make it more tailored to a prospects of his pedigree? Are the option years worth 20M per?

I think both the option and guaranteed portion would have to be about 50% higher for Acuna

[Heyward]

Acuna would probably cost more for him to sign.

Maybe like 6/60 with two team options. But i think he'll pull a Machado/Harper and just play it out year by year.

[mqt]

Your future is never guaranteed, he could have an injury outside of baseball and not play anymore. A kid his age and having 0 MLB experience would be smart to take a deal for 6-7 years.

Sure, it wouldn't be insane for a player to take such a deal, but there's a reason these deals happen so infrequently, and it's almost certainly not because clubs aren't interested. A player like Acuña would be dramatically underpaid under such a deal if he is even close to being the player he's advertised to be.

[nsacpi]

There is risk both ways. Singleton didn't pan out.

[mqt]

There is risk both ways. Singleton didn't pan out.

And as we all know, the Astros were so crippled by Singelton's dead money that they went on to have no success.


Snark aside, Singleton's complete failure is part of the reason why I'm in favor of clubs taking these risks. Even if the player flops completely, you have so little invested that it doesn't matter. For the course of Singleton's (and now Kingery's) deal he averaged end of the bench type money. You can afford to miss on those deals for the potential reward.

[BeanieAntics]

Acuna would probably cost more for him to sign.

Maybe like 6/60 with two team options. But i think he'll pull a Machado/Harper and just play it out year by year.

I think that is about 25-30 million dollars too high based on what I've learned about these things. The guaranteed portion would likely be in the 6/30 or 35 range I think. Then if we could get two option years at 20-22 million I would be happy.

[Enscheff]

Acuna is going to cost much more than Kingery to extend. This is a very interesting precedent setting deal though.

[cajunrevenge]

Love this kind of deal. I don't know why GMs will waste so much money on free agents but God forbid they waste 40 million over 8 years on a bust. Even when the deal goes bad for the team ala Eric Hinske it's not THAT bad for the team.

[Southcack77]

The links break it down, but putting it down here:

24 2018 750k
25 2019 1.25m
26 2020 1.5m

27 2021 4.0m
28 2022 6.0m
29 2023 8.0m.

30 2024 13m Team option
31 2025 14m Team option
32 2026 15m Team option

This seems like a kid who thinks 24 million is a lot of guaranteed money and who could live with only making 60 million if he turns out to be great.

I think its a pretty great deal for Philly. Only the last two guaranteed years amount to any sort of financial burden and the Phillies certainly have the payroll to afford it if it busts. If he turns into an all star they control almost all of his useful career on reasonably priced options. Relatively little team risk here then and what risk their is mitigated by their being a big market club.

[Russ2dollas]

The links break it down, but putting it down here:

24 2018 750k
25 2019 1.25m
26 2020 1.5m

27 2021 4.0m
28 2022 6.0m
29 2023 8.0m.

30 2024 13m Team option
31 2025 14m Team option
32 2026 15m Team option

This seems like a kid who thinks 24 million is a lot of guaranteed money and who could live with only making 60 million if he turns out to be great.

I think its a pretty great deal for Philly. Only the last two guaranteed years amount to any sort of financial burden and the Phillies certainly have the payroll to afford it if it busts. If he turns into an all star they control almost all of his useful career on reasonably priced options. Relatively little team risk here then and what risk their is mitigated by their being a big market club.

Makes a ton of sense to me from both sides. Baseball can be played for a long time. But you never know what will happen. If you are a star you'll make more than that money off the field as well.

Acuna should ask for more than that given his power and ability to play CF. This kid at SS should command more.

Union hates this stuff.

[Super]

Makes a ton of sense to me from both sides. Baseball can be played for a long time. But you never know what will happen. If you are a star you'll make more than that money off the field as well.

Acuna should ask for more than that given his power and ability to play CF. This kid at SS should command more.

Union hates this stuff.

Kingery is a 2B.

[Jaw]

This was mentioned in the Acuna thread but I'll add it here since this discussion turned to extending Acuna

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/03/26/report-ronald-acuna-turned-down-30-million-contract-extension-from-braves/

Arturo Marcano of ESPN Deportes reports (https://twitter.com/arturomarcano/status/978392349645524992) that Braves outfield prospect Ronald Acuña turned down a $30 million contract extension from the Braves. This comes on the heels of recent extensions signed by Scott Kingery (six years, $24 million) and Ketel Marte (five years, $24 million).

[Krgrecw]

This was mentioned in the Acuna thread but I'll add it here since this discussion turned to extending Acuna

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/03/26/report-ronald-acuna-turned-down-30-million-contract-extension-from-braves/

Arturo Marcano of ESPN Deportes reports (https://twitter.com/arturomarcano/status/978392349645524992) that Braves outfield prospect Ronald Acuña turned down a $30 million contract extension from the Braves. This comes on the heels of recent extensions signed by Scott Kingery (six years, $24 million) and Ketel Marte (five years, $24 million).


Stupid move. You don’t turn that money down.

[Evad]

Stupid move. You don’t turn that money down.

He's betting on himself. Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you win that bet. Or sometimes you lose that bet(see Frenchy).

[mqt]

Stupid move. You don’t turn that money down.

Nah, he'd have to bust insanely hard for this to be a bad move for him. Clubs don't offer these deals because they're altruistic.

[Heyward]

Stupid move. You don’t turn that money down.

It's smart, if he plays it year by year he'll be the next Harper/Machado and cash in down the line.

I hope he'd accept an extension but fully understand why if he didnt.

[Enscheff]

This was mentioned in the Acuna thread but I'll add it here since this discussion turned to extending Acuna

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/03/26/report-ronald-acuna-turned-down-30-million-contract-extension-from-braves/

Arturo Marcano of ESPN Deportes reports (https://twitter.com/arturomarcano/status/978392349645524992) that Braves outfield prospect Ronald Acuña turned down a $30 million contract extension from the Braves. This comes on the heels of recent extensions signed by Scott Kingery (six years, $24 million) and Ketel Marte (five years, $24 million).

Are we starting to see why the Braves had to get that extra year of control?

What does the “foster good will towards Acuna” crowd have to say about this now? Nothing? Didn’t think so.

[Jaw]

If I were the Braves I would bump it up to 45 and make him tell me no again.

[Southcack77]

If I were the Braves I would bump it up to 45 and make him tell me no again.


you'd guarantee 45 million over his six control years in exchange for what exactly? Some team options at what number? Because it doesn't make any sense just to pay him more money unless you are getting something.

[Orphan Black]

O'Brien says that Acuna was not offered any contract.

[Heyward]

you'd guarantee 45 million over his six control years in exchange for what exactly? Some team options at what number? Because it doesn't make any sense just to pay him more money unless you are getting something.

6/45 with two 30 mil options, covers one FA year.

[salmagundy]

O'Brien says that Acuna was not offered any contract.

From MLBTR


4:03PM: Acuna hasn’t been approached with any offers, the outfielder himself told David O’Brien and other reporters, and he and his representation hadn’t been engaged in any sort of talks about a potential $30MM deal.

1:55PM: Braves phenom Ronald Acuna has at least given some indication to the Braves that he would be interested in a long-term contract, according to MLB.com’s Mark Bowman. While some discussions have taken place, it seems there is no real indication at present that the sides are particularly likely to agree to a deal.

The report from Bowman arises after former ESPN Deportes blogger Arturo Marcano tweeted yesterday that Acuna had turned down a $30MM offer from the Atlanta organization. But both Bowman and David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (Twitter link) reported in strong terms that no such offer had been issued by the team.

Acuna, who’s perhaps the highest-regarded pre-MLB player in baseball, was previously re-assigned out of major-league camp in anticipation of opening the year at Triple-A. First, though, he showed why he has drawn so much hype with a monster performance in the Grapefruit League.

A generally similar situation was unfolding with the division-rival Phillies, whose top prospect Scott Kingery pushed for a MLB role with a big performance in camp. He ultimately agreed to an extension before ever suiting up for a big-league game — a somewhat controversial contract model. That deal, while hardly unprecedented, has sparked some new discussion as to whether teams will increasingly attempt to lock up their best prospects quite early in their careers.

For the time being, anyway, it seems there’s not much likelihood of a similar outcome in Atlanta. The team would no doubt be quite willing to make a commitment to Acuna at the right price, but it’s far from clear whether the sides will see eye to eye — or even whether significant further discussions will take place.

[Enscheff]

From MLBTR


4:03PM: Acuna hasn’t been approached with any offers, the outfielder himself told David O’Brien and other reporters, and he and his representation hadn’t been engaged in any sort of talks about a potential $30MM deal.

1:55PM: Braves phenom Ronald Acuna has at least given some indication to the Braves that he would be interested in a long-term contract, according to MLB.com’s Mark Bowman. While some discussions have taken place, it seems there is no real indication at present that the sides are particularly likely to agree to a deal.

The report from Bowman arises after former ESPN Deportes blogger Arturo Marcano tweeted yesterday that Acuna had turned down a $30MM offer from the Atlanta organization. But both Bowman and David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (Twitter link) reported in strong terms that no such offer had been issued by the team.

Acuna, who’s perhaps the highest-regarded pre-MLB player in baseball, was previously re-assigned out of major-league camp in anticipation of opening the year at Triple-A. First, though, he showed why he has drawn so much hype with a monster performance in the Grapefruit League.

A generally similar situation was unfolding with the division-rival Phillies, whose top prospect Scott Kingery pushed for a MLB role with a big performance in camp. He ultimately agreed to an extension before ever suiting up for a big-league game — a somewhat controversial contract model. That deal, while hardly unprecedented, has sparked some new discussion as to whether teams will increasingly attempt to lock up their best prospects quite early in their careers.

For the time being, anyway, it seems there’s not much likelihood of a similar outcome in Atlanta. The team would no doubt be quite willing to make a commitment to Acuna at the right price, but it’s far from clear whether the sides will see eye to eye — or even whether significant further discussions will take place.

Very good to hear. We can hold out hope for some sort of ~$30M deal. That figure is the low end for what an extension will cost.

[Jaw]

you'd guarantee 45 million over his six control years in exchange for what exactly? Some team options at what number? Because it doesn't make any sense just to pay him more money unless you are getting something.

3 option years for 15-20-25 would be a spitball. If he pans out its a steal and he's assured over $100 million. If he busts you use a AAAA pitcher as your 5th starter instead of the usual vet scrub for a few years to make up the cash, and he's assured of being able to buy his own island if he wants. Seems worth the risk to both sides to me.