The Official Thread of Pachemonium

[SJ24]

This worked with The Venezuelan Trout, as he is now the consensus number 1 prospect in the game.

Cristian Pache gets his season started tonight in A+ ball at Jackie Robinson Park in Daytona Beach, Florida.

[BeanieAntics]

Pache seems like one of the best candidates to have another meteoric rise in the rankings. Hopefully he actually made the adjustments necessary to produce some power.

Who seems like a good comp for Pache, assuming that he does end up developing above average power? I haven't seen anyone make this comp, but would Buxton be reasonable? When it comes to speed and defense they seem very similar.

[bravesfanMatt]

The Dominican trout.

[GeorgiaGirl]

I already did an upside/downside post in another thread, so I'll do it again with the clear one. Upside is Lorenzo Cain with a tick more HR pop. Downside is the Andrelton Simmons of CF.

I've also seen McCutchen named as a comp.

[Enscheff]

I already did an upside/downside post in another thread, so I'll do it again with the clear one. Upside is Lorenzo Cain with a tick more HR pop. Downside is the Andrelton Simmons of CF.

I've also seen McCutchen named as a comp.

Can you please let me know who comped him to Cutch so I can be sure to mock them for the rest of my life?

Cutch has been a solidly negative defender in CF his entire career. Pache is supposedly the best defensive player in the minors at any position.

Your comp of Simmons in CF is probably fairly reasonable as one of his higher end outcomes. His non-injury floor is a defensive sub 5th OFer.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Can you please let me know who comped him to Cutch so I can be sure to mock them for the rest of my life?

Cutch has been a solidly negative defender in CF his entire career. Pache is supposedly the best defensive player in the minors at any position.

Your comp of Simmons in CF is probably fairly reasonable as one of his higher end outcomes. His non-injury floor is a defensive sub 5th OFer.

He wasn't meaning on both sides, but I'm talking about Big Ben. The guy that now writes for a Twins fansided site.

[BeanieAntics]

Can you please let me know who comped him to Cutch so I can be sure to mock them for the rest of my life?

Cutch has been a solidly negative defender in CF his entire career. Pache is supposedly the best defensive player in the minors at any position.

Your comp of Simmons in CF is probably fairly reasonable as one of his higher end outcomes. His non-injury floor is a defensive sub 5th OFer.

Yeah I think a lot depends on just how good his defense really is. Is it young Peter Bourjos good or is it Byron Buxton/Kevin Kiermaier good? All I have heard is that he is the best CF in the minors defensively. If it really is that kind of good, his hit/power tools probably only need to get to 45/50ish levels for him to be a valuable major league piece. That type of transcendental defense can lead to some obscene WAR numbers. Kiermaier was a 7.5 win player in '15 with an OPS of .718 and an OBP that didn't crack .300.

I'm not saying that his defense is on that level. I truly don't know. But if it is, his bat only has to be below average-average for him to be a valuable piece. Now, if his bat actually becomes good too.... look out.

[bravesfanMatt]

He wasn't meaning on both sides, but I'm talking about Big Ben. The guy that now writes for a Twins fansided site.

Big Ben. Well cheff already mocks him so no worries.

[SJ24]

Yeah I think a lot depends on just how good his defense really is. Is it young Peter Bourjos good or is it Byron Buxton/Kevin Kiermaier good? All I have heard is that he is the best CF in the minors defensively. If it really is that kind of good, his hit/power tools probably only need to get to 45/50ish levels for him to be a valuable major league piece. That type of transcendental defense can lead to some obscene WAR numbers. Kiermaier was a 7.5 win player in '15 with an OPS of .718 and an OBP that didn't crack .300.

I'm not saying that his defense is on that level. I truly don't know. But if it is, his bat only has to be below average-average for him to be a valuable piece. Now, if his bat actually becomes good too.... look out.

It's Buxton level.

I think Pache also has a chance to be a .300 guy with 20-25 HR with a lot of steals.

He can be, like the poster said earlier, The Dominican Trout.

[Deester11]

Pache works his butt off and it showed from the beginning in Rome until the end of last year. He was a little gassed by the long season and I had no concerns with him. EXCEPT..the power. Last year I said he still sprayed line drives and just needed lift. I'm excited for him this year and should see him about 12 times this year.

[SJ24]

Pache starts off the year with a base hit.

Batting 1.000.

[Jaw]

Yeah I think a lot depends on just how good his defense really is. Is it young Peter Bourjos good or is it Byron Buxton/Kevin Kiermaier good? All I have heard is that he is the best CF in the minors defensively. If it really is that kind of good, his hit/power tools probably only need to get to 45/50ish levels for him to be a valuable major league piece. That type of transcendental defense can lead to some obscene WAR numbers. Kiermaier was a 7.5 win player in '15 with an OPS of .718 and an OBP that didn't crack .300.

I'm not saying that his defense is on that level. I truly don't know. But if it is, his bat only has to be below average-average for him to be a valuable piece. Now, if his bat actually becomes good too.... look out.

I'll preface this by saying that I have never expected much out of him because of what I saw him do at the plate. With that out of the way....

It's hard to explain how just how good he is defensively, you just have to see it. His feet seem to instantly know where the ball is going to land in the outfield so he always takes perfect routes to the landing spot, a lot like Andruw did. Probably not as good at that as Andruw was, but he is also faster than Andruw. He also has a big time arm. I don't know what the evaluators say about it, but it certainly looks like it should be at the top of any grading scale. Every time I saw him in Rome I was blown away, I just didn't expect to see that level of skill in little Rome Georgia.

[thewupk]

I'll preface this by saying that I have never expected much out of him because of what I saw him do at the plate. With that out of the way....

It's hard to explain how just how good he is defensively, you just have to see it. His feet seem to instantly know where the ball is going to land in the outfield so he always takes perfect routes to the landing spot, a lot like Andruw did. Probably not as good at that as Andruw was, but he is also faster than Andruw. He also has a big time arm. I don't know what the evaluators say about it, but it certainly looks like it should be at the top of any grading scale. Every time I saw him in Rome I was blown away, I just didn't expect to see that level of skill in little Rome Georgia.

The real question is can he do the spiderman catch like Andruw did?

[50PoundHead]

Pache seems like one of the best candidates to have another meteoric rise in the rankings. Hopefully he actually made the adjustments necessary to produce some power.

Who seems like a good comp for Pache, assuming that he does end up developing above average power? I haven't seen anyone make this comp, but would Buxton be reasonable? When it comes to speed and defense they seem very similar.

Pray that Pache learns to recognize the slider down-and-away. That kills Buxton the same way it bedevils Swanson. As for speed, Buxton is the fastest player in the majors, so that's a steep task for Pache to match.

[thewupk]

Pray that Pache learns to recognize the slider down-and-away. That kills Buxton the same way it bedevils Swanson. As for speed, Buxton is the fastest player in the majors, so that's a steep task for Pache to match.

Faster than Hamilton?

[thethe]

Faster than Hamilton?

Turner?

[50PoundHead]

Faster than Hamilton?

I can't find the Fangraphs blog post from last year, but it had Buxton as the fastest player in the majors. But Statcast has Hamilton as the fastest with Buxton second.

[thewupk]

I can't find the Fangraphs blog post from last year, but it had Buxton as the fastest player in the majors. But Statcast has Hamilton as the fastest with Buxton second.

It's impressive just to be in that group

[ball4life32]

Best Speed

Jorge Mateo, SS/OF, Athletics
Roman Quinn, OF, Phillies
Franchy Cordero, OF, Padres
Victor Robles, OF, Nationals
Cristian Pache, OF, Braves
Speed kills, both on the basepaths and in the field, and quite a few prospects can turn on the burners with the best of them. Jorge Mateo and Roman Quinn are two prospects who earn top-of-the-scale 80 grades from evaluators with their speed, while Franchy Cordero and Victor Robles have wowed with their speed in center field and the ground they can cover. Cristian Pache edged Mariners OF Ian Miller and Reds OF Jose Siri for the final spot, and there are plenty of players in the low minors who can fly, such as Angels OF Trent Deveaux, and still have a few years to grow into their bodies.

Best Defensive Outfielder

Victor Robles, OF, Nationals
Cristian Pache, OF, Braves
Brett Phillips, OF, Brewers
Magneuris Sierra, OF, Marlins
Braden Bishop, OF, Mariners
The greats make everything look easy, and Victor Robles makes the difficult task of playing center field look remarkably sol. With elite speed, a big arm and amazing natural reflexes and reads, Robles takes care of everything in center field in all directions to give the Nationals a future Gold Glove candidate. Cristian Pache draws similar raves at the lower levels, while Brett Phillips already has shown flashes of elite defense at all three outfield spots in the majors. Magneuris Sierra and Braden Bishop are elite defensive center fielders who edged out a strong crop of remaining candidates, including the Braves’ Ronald Acuna, the Reds’ Jose Siri and the Indians’ Greg Allen.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/best-tools-in-the-minors/

[Heyward]

Said it before, if we had to lose someone, i'm glad it was Maitan.

I'm on Riley > Maitan, and Pache has absurd upside.

AA doesnt seem to rush guys so i dont think he'll run through the minors like Acuna did.

[Hudson2]

Acuna is just that rare prospect that could handle every level thrown at him, it would be super rare to have 2 guys do that ever let alone with in a year of each other. If Pache is up there with Robles then we will be in excellent shape moving forward.

[thewupk]

Acuna is just that rare prospect that could handle every level thrown at him, it would be super rare to have 2 guys do that ever let alone with in a year of each other. If Pache is up there with Robles then we will be in excellent shape moving forward.

It is. How crazy would it be that Pache would make it 3 guys for the Braves

[Hudson2]

It is. How crazy would it be that Pache would make it 3 guys for the Braves

It would definitely speed this timeline of being a WS contender up.

[Hudson2]

I know Inciarte or Pache aren’t your prototypical corner outfielders but the defense in our outfield would be elite. Then you could spend the money to get Machado and make a trade for either Fulmer or Archer and be set to be a serious contender.

[thewupk]

I know Inciarte or Pache aren’t your prototypical corner outfielders but the defense in our outfield would be elite. Then you could spend the money to get Machado and make a trade for either Fulmer or Archer and be set to be a serious contender.

Good players are good players. To me it makes no difference if Ender, for example, played center, right, or left. If he's a 3 WAR player then he's a 3 WAR player. I want good players on the team.

[Heyward]

It would definitely speed this timeline of being a WS contender up.

The SP is gonna determine whether the Braves are a WS contender in the coming years or not.

Pitching wins in October.

[thewupk]

The SP is gonna determine whether the Braves are a WS contender in the coming years or not.

Pitching wins in October.

Myth

[Metaphysicist]

Cutch has been a solidly negative defender in CF his entire career. Pache is supposedly the best defensive player in the minors at any position.

McCutchen was consistently rated as an excellent defender by those same scouts when he was coming up in the minors.

[Heyward]

Myth

To an extent yes, but hard to win without good starting pitching unless you have an elite, deep bullpen which a lot of teams have these days it seems.

[cajunrevenge]

Myth


I don't recall any position players recording any wins or saves in the playoffs.

[Enscheff]

I don't recall any position players recording any wins or saves in the playoffs.

Lol wow

[thewupk]

I don't recall any position players recording any wins or saves in the playoffs.

touche

[thewupk]

To an extent yes, but hard to win without good starting pitching unless you have an elite, deep bullpen which a lot of teams have these days it seems.

There are many ways to win. Playing good at the right time is the key component.

[nsacpi]

There are many ways to win. Playing good at the right time is the key component.

see recent Royals WS teams...starting pitching on that team was not what won it for them...many ways to win

[bravesfanMatt]

How can any Braves fan say pitching wins in the playoffs. We would have 6 World Series if that were the case. It takes managing. Pitching hitting. Relievers. Defense.

[BeanieAntics]

Baserunning and First Base defense is obviously the most important thing in the playoffs. Can you imagine a playoff run where you first baseman couldn't catch at all? It would be a disaster.

[thewupk]

Baserunning and First Base defense is obviously the most important thing in the playoffs. Can you imagine a playoff run where you first baseman couldn't catch at all? It would be a disaster.

I think tackling players on 1st is also a requirement for 1B in the WS

[SJ24]

Pache just hit his first ever professional HR.

[nsacpi]

Pache just hit his first ever professional HR.

I hear he's better than Acuna

[thethe]

I hear he's better than Acuna

X factor

[Southcack77]

I hear he's better than Acuna

Might want to trade Acuna now before he really starts to decline.

[AerchAngel]

Big Ben. Well cheff already mocks him so no worries.

He mocks everyone, he should be enamored.

[Super]

Might want to trade Acuna now before he really starts to decline.

he's definitely expendable with pache hitting a HR yesterday

[CJ9]

Just realized Pache has 1 BB and 19 Ks in 86 ABs. He had a 7.6 BB% in Rome last year so hopefully that'll start to normalize soon.

[CJ9]

He also has 7 XBHs in 21 games this year in a miserable league for offense. He had 21 in 119 games last year at Rome.

[Southcack77]

He also has 7 XBHs in 21 games this year in a miserable league for offense. He had 21 in 119 games last year at Rome.

Change in approach?

[clvclv]

Change in approach?

McDonalds instead of Burger King.

[thewupk]

Pache just hit his first ever professional HR.

spring training doesn't count as a professional?

[bravesfanMatt]

spring training doesn't count as a professional?

Technically exhibition.

[thewupk]

Technically exhibition.

but did he get paid?

[bravesfanMatt]

but did he get paid?

I don’t know honestly. But if Russell wilson hit a homer. Would that be a professional homerun.

[thewupk]

I don’t know honestly. But if Russell wilson hit a homer. Would that be a professional homerun.

Yeah. Next two sport star.

[bravesfanMatt]

Yeah. Next two sport star.

Well then there ya go

[SJ24]

Pache at age 18 in A ball: 514 PA, 0 HR, 13 doubles, 8 triples, 32 stolen bases, .281 average, .360 BABIP, 7.6% walk rate, 20.2% K rate.

Pache at age 19 in A+ ball: 104 PA, 1 HR, 5 doubles, 2 triples, 0 stolen bases, .287 average, .350 BABIP, 1.9% walk rate, 19.2% K rate.


Is he not stealing bases on purpose?

[mqt]

Pache at age 18 in A ball: 514 PA, 0 HR, 13 doubles, 8 triples, 32 stolen bases, .281 average, .360 BABIP, 7.6% walk rate, 20.2% K rate.

Pache at age 19 in A+ ball: 104 PA, 1 HR, 5 doubles, 2 triples, 0 stolen bases, .287 average, .350 BABIP, 1.9% walk rate, 19.2% K rate.


Is he not stealing bases on purpose?

It is weird that he's not getting steals. Usually that's prevalent in the low minors.

[Jaw]

Pache at age 18 in A ball: 514 PA, 0 HR, 13 doubles, 8 triples, 32 stolen bases, .281 average, .360 BABIP, 7.6% walk rate, 20.2% K rate.

Pache at age 19 in A+ ball: 104 PA, 1 HR, 5 doubles, 2 triples, 0 stolen bases, .287 average, .350 BABIP, 1.9% walk rate, 19.2% K rate.


Is he not stealing bases on purpose?

Third base and home plate are harder to steal. All those extra base hits are ruining his stolen base opportunities! /s

[SJ24]

Singled in first AB tonight. Average up to .290.

Second at bat: was down 0-2 and fought back to earn a walk after 10 pitches.

Imagining him in a year or two gets me absolutely giddy.

[Garmel]

Second at bat: was down 0-2 and fought back to earn a walk after 10 pitches.



Impressive at-bat. We do need to see more walks from him.

[zbhargrove]

We need to see a lot more from Pache IMO... he's still just riding on hype based on raw tools and defense. Besides defense, those raw tools have a long long way to go. We've been hearing about him breaking out since last year and it still has yet to happen. I'm not as high on the dude as most I guess.

[ball4life32]

We need to see a lot more from Pache IMO... he's still just riding on hype based on raw tools and defense. Besides defense, those raw tools have a long long way to go. We've been hearing about him breaking out since last year and it still has yet to happen. I'm not as high on the dude as most I guess.

He’s literally a career .290 hitter despite being extremely young every where he’s been. Pache can clearly hit and is not just defense.

[SJ24]

Pache just pulled a sharp liner for a single.

Average up to .296.

[ball4life32]

And right on cue Pache gets another hit. 2-2 with a BB. Average up to .296.

[SJ24]

All the top guys (Longenhagen, Law, Sawchik) are very high on him.

80 speed, 70 arm, 55 raw power and he's not done growing. There have been Buxton comps. Could be better- a 6-WAR guy.

We are really lucky.

[SJ24]

We need to see a lot more from Pache IMO... he's still just riding on hype based on raw tools and defense. Besides defense, those raw tools have a long long way to go. We've been hearing about him breaking out since last year and it still has yet to happen. I'm not as high on the dude as most I guess.


Hitting .296 as a 19-year-old in A+ is great. His K% is 18.75%. He's hitting for extra bases more than ever before.

He is number 37 on the preseason Fangraphs top 100.

He can be top 10 at the start of next year, IMO. Needs to finish strong.

[mfree80]

We need to see a lot more from Pache IMO... he's still just riding on hype based on raw tools and defense. Besides defense, those raw tools have a long long way to go. We've been hearing about him breaking out since last year and it still has yet to happen. I'm not as high on the dude as most I guess.

Methinks we have been a bit spoiled by Acuna and Albies. Not hitting as well in the minors as they did is something a lot of guys are guilty of.

[SJ24]

Just had another very good at bat.

Was down 0-2. Worked the count full and put the ball in play (groundout)

[SJ24]

Numbers since April 26th (7 games):

10-29 (.344) with 1 home run, 2 strikeouts, and 2 walks.

[Enscheff]

This is the first set of prospects you’ve seen since being old enough to use a computer, yes?

[ball4life32]

Methinks we have been a bit spoiled by Acuna and Albies. Not hitting as well in the minors as they did is something a lot of guys are guilty of.

Funny thing is that Acuna batted .287 in High A last year at age 19 while Pache is batting .291 in High A at age 19.

[SJ24]

This is the first set of prospects you’ve seen since being old enough to use a computer, yes?

No. Do you remember Jeff Jackson and Brien Taylor? Hell, I may or may not have been around at the time of David Clyde and Fred Lynn.

I just choose to dream and have fun. Pache is a good guy to dream on. You act like I'm dreaming on Marcus Mooney or Ray Patrick Didder.

[SJ24]

Funny thing is that Acuna batted .287 in High A last year at age 19 while Pache is batting .291 in High A at age 19.

Oh my.

Oh my.

How do you do?

[zbhargrove]

Methinks we have been a bit spoiled by Acuna and Albies. Not hitting as well in the minors as they did is something a lot of guys are guilty of.

I'm not comparing him to either player. I've closely followed baseball for close to 35 years at this point and I just don't see the results as a top 50 prospect at this point, sorry... it's all hype and tools thus far. I hope the tools all com together and I hope I'm wrong... but he's got a long way to go.

[zbhargrove]

Funny thing is that Acuna batted .287 in High A last year at age 19 while Pache is batting .291 in High A at age 19.

You might have something if batting average mattered much.

[ball4life32]

Oh my.

Oh my.

How do you do?

Lol oh god. I’m not saying Pache was better and certainly not saying batting average is the only way to determine who’s better. Just trying to prove that Pache is a damn good hitter with his power starting to develop.

[zbhargrove]

Lol oh god. I’m not saying Pache was better and certainly not saying batting average is the only way to determine who’s better. Just trying to prove that Pache is a damn good hitter with his power starting to develop.

One homerun proves that power is developing?

[ball4life32]

One homerun proves that power is developing?

He hit 2 HR’s off Newk and 1 HR is an improvement from the last two years isn’t it?

[zbhargrove]

He hit 2 HR’s off Newk and 1 HR is an improvement from the last two years isn’t it?

Hey I'm rooting for him. I want the hype to be real. But thus far it's not.

[msstate7]

One homerun proves that power is developing?

Slugging is up to .415 from .343 last year. Iso is up to .132 from .062 last season. Who knows if it continues though

[SJ24]

Hey I'm rooting for him. I want the hype to be real. But thus far it's not.


Have you seen him play defense? How about his speed? (I guess they are telling him not to run in A+ for some reason)

[ball4life32]

Hey I'm rooting for him. I want the hype to be real. But thus far it's not.

I disagree but I guess we’ll see how he finishes. Pache is a top 50 prospect right now with the potential for more depending on how he finishes.

[zbhargrove]

Have you seen him play defense? How about his speed? (I guess they are telling him not to run in A+ for some reason)

Guess you missed the whole part when I said it's all hype except the defense. A speedy center fielder is not all that special. Thus far the only thing worth the hype is the D...

[SJ24]

Guess you missed the whole part when I said it's all hype except the defense. A speedy center fielder is not all that special. Thus far the only thing worth the hype is the D...

Byron Buxton and Kevin Pillar aren't special?

The guys at Fangraphs think that is the baseline for Pache, and if the bat comes, he's a 6-WAR star.

[zbhargrove]

Slugging is up to .415 from .343 last year. Iso is up to .132 from .062 last season. Who knows if it continues though

I hope it does... pretty small sample size right now though. I'll be the happiest guy in the world if he proves me wrong... trust me

[zbhargrove]

Byron Buxton and Kevin Pillar aren't special?

The guys at Fangraphs think that is the baseline for Pache, and if the bat comes, he's a 6-WAR star.

I don't think Pillar is... no. And while Buxton is a solid player... he's been a huge let down overall.

[zbhargrove]

Byron Buxton and Kevin Pillar aren't special?

The guys at Fangraphs think that is the baseline for Pache, and if the bat comes, he's a 6-WAR star.

And if Fangraphs have that as his baseline, it can't be any different! They even admit they are higher on him than everyone else basically because of the tools and not the results.

[ball4life32]

And if Fangraphs have that as his baseline, it can't be any different! They even admit they are higher on him than everyone else basically because of the tools and not the results.

Remember he’s the same age as a college freshman in High A right now. And it’s not like he’s struggling. Hit his first HR, better average, higher slugging/ops and strikeouts have been way down in the last couple weeks.

[zbhargrove]

Remember he’s the same age as a college freshman in High A right now. And it’s not like he’s struggling. HR’s, average, ops all up from last year.

I realize this. He's a solid prospect. He's not the uber prospect that the OP is making him out to be. Nowhere have I said he's not a solid prospect.

[ball4life32]

I realize this. He's a solid prospect. He's not the uber prospect that the OP is making him out to be. Nowhere have I said he's not a solid prospect.

I got ya. Just curious but where would you rank him right now? Top 100? Top 150?

[zbhargrove]

I got ya. Just curious but where would you rank him right now? Top 100? Top 150?

I'm thinking somewhere 80-100... wouldn't take too much to start making me think more highly.

[GeorgiaGirl]

The Florida State League is a pitching friendly league and Pache is going through tweaking his swing. Given that, he's made strides, the issue is...he needs to start drawing walks.

He's a guy, as long as he deals with the FSL just fine...that could go to Miss and finally "blow up" eventually (whether later this year or 2019) as while the Southern League is pitching friendly, based on what we've seen with some, the Florida State League leans even heavier on that side.

[SJ24]

The Florida State League is a pitching friendly league and Pache is going through tweaking his swing. Given that, he's made strides, the issue is...he needs to start drawing walks.

He's a guy, as long as he deals with the FSL just fine...that could go to Miss and finally "blow up" eventually (whether later this year or 2019) as while the Southern League is pitching friendly, based on what we've seen with some, the Florida State League leans even heavier on that side.


Pache has 3 walks in his last 11 games. He had 0 in the previous 15.

He's getting there!

[ball4life32]

Pache has 3 walks in his last 11 games. He had 0 in the previous 15.

He's getting there!

Not to mention, not even including yesterday’s 2-4 game, Pache is hitting .317/.349/.488 in his last 10 games. He’s heating up!

[Enscheff]

No. Do you remember Jeff Jackson and Brien Taylor? Hell, I may or may not have been around at the time of David Clyde and Fred Lynn.

I just choose to dream and have fun. Pache is a good guy to dream on. You act like I'm dreaming on Marcus Mooney or Ray Patrick Didder.

Let me guess...

You're tehteh's son?

[SJ24]

Let me guess...

You're tehteh's son?

I am not nearly as high on guys like Newk, Riley, Folty, Fried, Allard, etc. I don't see any stars there.

I am not pumping up Pache because he's a Brave. I didn't pump up Ronald because he was a Brave. They don't even require pumping up. They are just good.

You can't seem to grasp this. It is completely foreign to you to see someone who has nuance.

[Enscheff]

I am not nearly as high on guys like Newk, Riley, Folty, Fried, Allard, etc. I don't see any stars there.

I am not pumping up Pache because he's a Brave. I didn't pump up Ronald because he was a Brave. They don't even require pumping up. They are just good.

You can't seem to grasp this. It is completely foreign to you to see someone who has nuance.

Yes, your commenting is so far above my level of intelligence I can't hope to grasp what you have to say.

5 months left....5 months.

[jpx7]

(Fwiw, SJ24, I think his first post was just good-natured ribbing, not an attack.)

[GovClintonTyree]

Yes, your commenting is so far above my level of intelligence I can't hope to grasp what you have to say.

5 months left....5 months.

Is that when you report to prison?

[ball4life32]

Just saw Pache got a hit and then came out of the game because of an injury. Not sure what happend. Really hope he’s ok.

[SJ24]

Just saw Pache got a hit and then came out of the game because of an injury. Not sure what happend. Really hope he’s ok.

Injured his hand on the pickoff attempt.

[SJ24]

Pache is back and hitting leadoff tonight for Florida.

[ball4life32]

Pache is back and hitting leadoff tonight for Florida.

And he hits a double to start the game.

[SJ24]

A 1st pitch double for Pache to open the game.

That should help the ISO.

[SJ24]

Pache now 2-2 with a double and a single.

Batting .307.

He should be promoted to AA soon. Stud.

[ball4life32]

Pache now 2-2 with a double and a single.

Batting .307.

He should be promoted to AA soon. Stud.
I bet he does. He got caught stealing though....0-4 on stolen bases on the year after 32 stolen bases in Rome last year.

[SJ24]

I bet he does. He got caught stealing though....0-4 on stolen bases on the year after 32 stolen bases in Rome last year.

Very odd considering the 80 Fangraphs put on his speed this year. You'd think he'd have more attempts.

[GeorgiaGirl]

I'd like to see the improvement in walk rate continue, but if it does and he keeps hitting, I do think that he'll go up to AA. I was a little worried, but I don't think AA is "that" gunshy compared to the previous regimen. Just wants to see a little more than them.

Then if he does well in AA, and considering his profile I wouldn't be surprised if the "finally!" true breakout happens there, it truly becomes interesting what happens with the OF in the offseason. Really, while I'm not a big fan of him, that may make it make sense for you to sign Markakis for one more season.

Right now I'd say his ETA is late 2019-early 2020.

[SJ24]

I'd like to see the improvement in walk rate continue, but if it does and he keeps hitting, I do think that he'll go up to AA. I was a little worried, but I don't think AA is "that" gunshy compared to the previous regimen. Just wants to see a little more than them.

Then if he does well in AA, and considering his profile I wouldn't be surprised if the "finally!" true breakout happens there, it truly becomes interesting what happens with the OF in the offseason. Really, while I'm not a big fan of him, that may make it make sense for you to sign Markakis for one more season.

Right now I'd say his ETA is late 2019-early 2020.


Pache walked in his first AB tonight!!

[Tapate50]

I’d like to see an improvement in the hr rate!!!


:FrediGreen:

[SJ24]

Pache just hit a double.

He is getting very Acuna-ish.

[GeorgiaGirl]

He's on a roll lately, which is good. ^^

And really has been quite good outside of his first 6 games at the level. Just the walks, keep up the improved walk rate for a couple more weeks and let's see a promotion to AA.

[SJ24]

Pache with another double to start this morning's game.

He is a machine.

[thethe]

If we somehow hit on Pache then sky is the limit for this team.

[SJ24]

If we somehow hit on Pache then sky is the limit for this team.

He'll be up to AA any day now, I'd bet. 19 years and 5 months. Buxton defensively with an improving body and power. His ISO has more than doubled since last year.

[CJ9]

He'll be up to AA any day now, I'd bet. 19 years and 5 months. Buxton defensively with an improving body and power. His ISO has more than doubled since last year.

What's the point of rushing him after 30 games at High A?

[UNCBlue012]

What's the point of rushing him after 30 games at High A?

It's the Braves way!

[SJ24]

He just hit another single to left. 2-3 on the day.

Average at .306.

[BeanieAntics]

What's the point of rushing him after 30 games at High A?

There really isn't one. Pache doesn't need to be moved up until later on this year if he proves he can hit this level consistently. Pache isn't going to factor in to the big club until mid-2019 at the earliest, so there is no reason to try to rush his development.

[SJ24]

There really isn't one. Pache doesn't need to be moved up until later on this year if he proves he can hit this level consistently. Pache isn't going to factor in to the big club until mid-2019 at the earliest, so there is no reason to try to rush his development.


Acuna went from A+ to AAA last year, getting better at each stop.

Pache should be on a similar path, IMO. No reason to hold talent down.

[ball4life32]

Another hit. 3-4 now batting .312.

[SJ24]

Pache with another hit. 3-4 on the day. Average at .312.

[Southcack77]

What's the point of rushing him after 30 games at High A?

There is none. I don't get the fascination with this one.

A pretty good outcome for him would be Ender Inciarte, more or less. Maybe slightly better defensively but not so much its likely to make a great deal of difference.

I'm not sure that's really all that much to be worked up about. Good sure, but not, "we're awesome because..."

[SJ24]

There is none. I don't get the fascination with this one.

A pretty good outcome for him would be Ender Inciarte, more or less. Maybe slightly better defensively but not so much its likely to make a great deal of difference.

I'm not sure that's really all that much to be worked up about. Good sure, but not, "we're awesome because..."


No.

[SJ24]

Ender Inciarte was never a top 50 prospect in all of baseball by multiple outlets.

[Southcack77]

Ender Inciarte was never a top 50 prospect in all of baseball by multiple outlets.

Ender Inciarte is a gold glove winning major leaguer who is about an average major league hitter.

That would be a real good outcome for someone that is not even an average hitter in the minor leagues and still has demonstrated no power at all.

[SJ24]

Ender is 5'11, 190 who's an average athlete with an average bat.

Cristian Pache is 6'2, 195 with an 80 speed, 80 FV defense, 70 arm, 55 FV hit tool who is still just 19 years and 5 months old.

Cristian Pache's ISO this year is higher than Ender Inciarte has ever had in a season at any level.

[SJ24]

Ender Inciarte is a gold glove winning major leaguer who is about an average major league hitter.

That would be a real good outcome for someone that is not even an average hitter in the minor leagues and still has demonstrated no power at all.


Pache is hitting .312 in 130 AB and has a 55 FV hit tool.

What are you talking about?

[bravesfanMatt]

Ender Inciarte is a gold glove winning major leaguer who is about an average major league hitter.

That would be a real good outcome for someone that is not even an average hitter in the minor leagues and still has demonstrated no power at all.

I think you might have SJ fatigue. Calling him average is a bad call. Pache is a great prospect that could be another superstar like Ozzie.

[clvclv]

Ender is 5'11, 190 who's an average athlete with an average bat.

Cristian Pache is 6'2, 195 with an 80 speed, 80 FV defense, 70 arm, 55 FV hit tool who is still just 19 years and 5 months old.

Cristian Pache's ISO this year is higher than Ender Inciarte has ever had in a season at any level.

It's OK to be excited about Pache (and plenty of other prospects as well), but come on now. Ender has won 2 consecutive Gold Gloves in one of the toughest defensive positions there is (particularly with Markakis, Kemp, and Adams flanking him), is a .300 hitter, and has averaged 175+ hits per season since becoming a full-time player.

Calling him an "average athlete with an average bat" is beyond comical.

[Southcack77]

Ender is 5'11, 190 who's an average athlete with an average bat.

Cristian Pache is 6'2, 195 with an 80 speed, 80 FV defense, 70 arm, 55 FV hit tool who is still just 19 years and 5 months old.

Cristian Pache's ISO this year is higher than Ender Inciarte has ever had in a season at any level.

Perhaps you know or perhaps you don't that you basically need close to a full season of PAs before ISO becomes a particularly relevant measure. Fangraphs recommends 550. At this point, Pache is very much in small sample size territory at 126 PAs.

Pache's ISO last year was .062 in 512 PAs and was .070 the year before with about 100 or so. His career Minor League ISO is considerably below Inciarte's career Major League ISO.

Fangraphs has a current value 20 on his Hit Tool, so take it easy there.

Good to know that Pache is taller though.

[Super]

I think you might have SJ fatigue. Calling him average is a bad call. Pache is a great prospect that could be another superstar like Ozzie.

Calling who average is a bad call?
Ender is an average-at-best hitter. Pache has a long way to go to even be that in the majors. A really, really long way. If the argument is that Pache has a higher ceiling, I think most would agree. but inciarte would still be a really good outcome for him. he's not likely to even be that.

[BeanieAntics]

Acuna went from A+ to AAA last year, getting better at each stop.

Pache should be on a similar path, IMO. No reason to hold talent down.

Acuna is a unicorn. He is a 99.99 percentile prospect. Comparing him and Pache, or their trajectory, is ridiculous. Using Acuna's timeline and success to justify rushing Pache is a terrible idea.

[Southcack77]

I think you might have SJ fatigue. Calling him average is a bad call. Pache is a great prospect that could be another superstar like Ozzie.

Albies was a much better hitter in the low minors than Pache has been so far. Albies didn't struggle at any level until he got to AAA. I should say he dominated (in his way) every level offensively until he got to AAA.

Pache apparently has an elite defensive tool. That makes him a great prospect because he doesn't have to project to have much offense to be a difference maker and scouts think he could get to average or better.

But early results suggest that something very much below major league average offense is possible.

So I'll stand by feeling pretty good if he turns into Ender Inciarte with slightly better defense.

If he suddenly sprouts home run power I'll reevaluate.

[Enscheff]

Ender is 5'11, 190 who's an average athlete with an average bat.

Cristian Pache is 6'2, 195 with an 80 speed, 80 FV defense, 70 arm, 55 FV hit tool who is still just 19 years and 5 months old.

Cristian Pache's ISO this year is higher than Ender Inciarte has ever had in a season at any level.

This guy knows athletes, so listen to him.

His daddy said so!

[BeanieAntics]

I think you might have SJ fatigue. Calling him average is a bad call. Pache is a great prospect that could be another superstar like Ozzie.

You aren't wrong in this assessment, but there is absolutely no need to rush Pache or put him on a trajectory similar to Acuna. Pache is a very very good prospect. Acuna is an otherworldly prospect. Pache needs time to develop. Throwing him into double A just because that is what Acuna did would be ridiculous. Let him develop in A+ ball and if he is still killing it in late June, maybe move him up then. Not after a month in A+.

[msstate7]

Perhaps you know or perhaps you don't that you basically need close to a full season of PAs before ISO becomes a particularly relevant measure. Fangraphs recommends 550. At this point, Pache is very much in small sample size territory at 126 PAs.

Pache's ISO last year was .062 in 512 PAs and was .070 the year before with about 100 or so. His career Minor League ISO is considerably below Inciarte's career Major League ISO.

Fangraphs has a current value 20 on his Hit Tool, so take it easy there.

Good to know that Pache is taller though.

Demeritte is a 20 hit tool also... I'm gonna say fangraphs needs to reevaluate pache's hit tool. Demeritte is a career .239 hitter; pache is .291

3-4 today to get to .313

[Southcack77]

It's OK to be excited about Pache (and plenty of other prospects as well), but come on now. Ender has won 2 consecutive Gold Gloves in one of the toughest defensive positions there is (particularly with Markakis, Kemp, and Adams flanking him), is a .300 hitter, and has averaged 175+ hits per season since becoming a full-time player.

Calling him an "average athlete with an average bat" is beyond comical.


Prospect-itis.

He'd rather have the possibility of someone better than Inciarte, even if that is relatively unlikely, than the reality of actually having a Gold Glove CF who is an average MLB hitter who also gets on base at a 35% clip.

Because Pache has a good frame and some scouts think he might find some power that has been missing to date.

Maybe he does. That would be awesome. And then we can talk about him like a superstar prospect. Until then he's the hopeful successor to Inciarte.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Albies was a much better hitter in the low minors than Pache has been so far. Albies didn't struggle at any level until he got to AAA. I should say he dominated (in his way) every level offensively until he got to AAA.

Pache apparently has an elite defensive tool. That makes him a great prospect because he doesn't have to project to have much offense to be a difference maker and scouts think he could get to average or better.

But early results suggest that something very much below major league average offense is possible.

So I'll stand by feeling pretty good if he turns into Ender Inciarte with slightly better defense.

If he suddenly sprouts home run power I'll reevaluate.

Sigh...considering that Pache made a swing change, I might do what I did with Acuna and throw his early minor league stats away. Based on what I read with him early on he was a big time athlete that had major swing mechanic issues that he needed to correct as a teen. And that he had power, but it was sapped because of his major mechanical issues with the bat.

No he's not showing HR pop (yet) but he's showing a lot more general power than he did last year.

[Southcack77]

Demeritte is a 20 hit tool also... I'm gonna say fangraphs needs to reevaluate pache's hit tool. Demeritte is a career .239 hitter; pache is .291

3-4 today to get to .313


Ah, but they have a FV of 30 on Demeritte's hit tool because he's pretty much what he is at this point. Much bigger upside, or at least it is unknown at this point, on Pache hit tool. It would be interesting to know what the FV on Demeritte was at a comparable age. Might not be something that could be discovered.

[BeanieAntics]

Perhaps you know or perhaps you don't that you basically need close to a full season of PAs before ISO becomes a particularly relevant measure. Fangraphs recommends 550. At this point, Pache is very much in small sample size territory at 126 PAs.

Pache's ISO last year was .062 in 512 PAs and was .070 the year before with about 100 or so. His career Minor League ISO is considerably below Inciarte's career Major League ISO.

Fangraphs has a current value 20 on his Hit Tool, so take it easy there.

Good to know that Pache is taller though.

To be fair, he did say a 55 FV hit tool which is what Fangraphs had him at. So his statement was true, depite me disagreeing with him.

[Southcack77]

Sigh...considering that Pache made a swing change, I might do what I did with Acuna and throw his early minor league stats away. Based on what I read with him early on he was a big time athlete that had major swing mechanic issues that he needed to correct as a teen. And that he had power, but it was sapped because of his major mechanical issues with the bat.

No he's not showing HR pop (yet) but he's showing a lot more general power than he did last year.

1. In a relatively insignificant sample.
2. Acuna's stat line as a hitter bear no semblance of similarity to Pache. Acuna was a much better hitter, showing much more power, at an early age than Pache.

I hope his "poor mechanics" have been solved and he's great now. Let's take a look at the end of the season and see how he progressed.

I'll be pulling for you to be correct.

[Super]

i'll throw pache's early MiLB stats away when he shows they should be thrown away.

[bravesfanMatt]

I wasn’t saying he was like Ozzie. I said he has the tools to be another star like Ozzie. Defensive wizard who is no slouch with the bat. I think his power will come

[Southcack77]

To be fair, he did say a 55 FV hit tool which is what Fangraphs had him at. So his statement was true, depite me disagreeing with him.

I just told him to take it easy. I didn't say he was wrong.

Fangraphs thinks he's a generational defender. Their projection is that he'll be a very valuable MLB player even if he never becomes an average MLB player. But they think he has the potential to be average or better and that he has a possibility of being much better than that. That's makes a really valuable prospect, but his Acuna potential as a hitter is pretty unlikely.

That's why I think being happy with Inciarte+ production is reasonable position to take.

[Southcack77]

I wasn’t saying he was like Ozzie. I said he has the tools to be another star like Ozzie. Defensive wizard who is no slouch with the bat. I think his power will come

I'm just saying he's not a natural comparison to Ozzie, because Ozzie was NEVER a slouch with the bat. Ozzie has in fact been fairly dominant with his bat for his entire career (including in MLB), minus a little time in AAA at 19.

Just like he's not a natural comparison to Acuna, for the same reason.

IF you make that comparison, the assumption on the other end is going to be an offensive value that Pache has no demonstrated thus far.

Maybe his defense does put him on a similar level of prospect status, but those aren't natural comparisons to me.

[bravesfanMatt]

Well this went downhill fast.

[Enscheff]

LOL

It's like watching the three stooges argue.

Thanks for the morning chuckle guys!

[Garmel]

Well this went downhill fast.

Welcome to the internet.

[GeorgiaGirl]

1. In a relatively insignificant sample.
2. Acuna's stat line as a hitter bear no semblance of similarity to Pache. Acuna was a much better hitter, showing much more power, at an early age than Pache.

I hope his "poor mechanics" have been solved and he's great now. Let's take a look at the end of the season and see how he progressed.

I'll be pulling for you to be correct.

I wasn't comparing them one on one, but so far he's made a huge jump and some (including me) were laughing at Acuna getting a fast promotion last year out of A+ due to the issues that were there for him there. I'm doubting we see the same thing but so far, my thinking that Pache's finally breakout is this year is correct and I'm not making the same mistake I made last year when Pache does go to AA in saying it might be a mistake.

AA has said "I won't rush guys" but based on what we've seen so far, we're likely 2 weeks, maybe even less of Pache continuing this to him going to AA. As he's not as aggressive, but he already surprised me with Kyle Muller going to A+ (which fwiw, I think is a mistake for it to be that early, but I don't run an organization).

[SJ24]

LOL

It's like watching the three stooges argue.

Thanks for the morning chuckle guys!

I just have fun and dream. Baseball is an escape for me. Fandom, by definition, is irrational. You are rooting for people you have no connection with (in most cases) in something over which you have no control.

I know the likelihood of Pache ever being an All-Star, much less a perennial All-Star, is slim. I know Ronald will likely never be better than Mike Trout.

Fandom should be about fans being irrational together for the purpose of a common goal. It shouldn't involve absolute dicks like you ruining it for everyone. I have no problem with people arguing with my posts. I'm just having fun at the end of the day.

What I do have a problem with is your INCESSANT bullying, harassment, and abuse of thethe. I have a problem with you attacking the intelligence of other posters. I have a problem with you insulting entire regions of decent, hard-working people.

I mean, look at your signature. You are so insecure and pathetic.

[SJ24]

I wasn't comparing them one on one, but so far he's made a huge jump and some (including me) were laughing at Acuna getting a fast promotion last year out of A+ due to the issues that were there for him there. I'm doubting we see the same thing but so far, my thinking that Pache's finally breakout is this year is correct and I'm not making the same mistake I made last year when Pache does go to AA in saying it might be a mistake.

AA has said "I won't rush guys" but based on what we've seen so far, we're likely 2 weeks, maybe even less of Pache continuing this to him going to AA. As he's not as aggressive, but he already surprised me with Kyle Muller going to A+ (which fwiw, I think is a mistake for it to be that early, but I don't run an organization).

Great post.

[Garmel]

What I do have a problem with is your INCESSANT bullying, harassment, and abuse of thethe. I have a problem with you attacking the intelligence of other posters. I have a problem with you insulting entire regions of decent, hard-working people.

I mean, look at your signature. You are so insecure and pathetic.

He has to run others down so he can feel superior to them. It is pathetic.

[Super]

I just have fun and dream. Baseball is an escape for me. Fandom, by definition, is irrational. You are rooting for people you have no connection with (in most cases) in something over which you have no control.

I know the likelihood of Pache ever being an All-Star, much less a perennial All-Star, is slim. I know Ronald will likely never be better than Mike Trout.

Fandom should be about fans being irrational together for the purpose of a common goal. It shouldn't involve absolute dicks like you ruining it for everyone. I have no problem with people arguing with my posts. I'm just having fun at the end of the day.

What I do have a problem with is your INCESSANT bullying, harassment, and abuse of thethe. I have a problem with you attacking the intelligence of other posters. I have a problem with you insulting entire regions of decent, hard-working people.

I mean, look at your signature. You are so insecure and pathetic.

i don't disagree with any of this. people are fans in different ways, and i know i'm definitely very optimistic very often, and wrong a lot because of it. but it's fun, and who cares about being wrong on how a player will end up? there's just no reason to take any of this that seriously as a message board poster.

[Southcack77]

I wasn't comparing them one on one, but so far he's made a huge jump and some (including me) were laughing at Acuna getting a fast promotion last year out of A+ due to the issues that were there for him there. I'm doubting we see the same thing but so far, my thinking that Pache's finally breakout is this year is correct and I'm not making the same mistake I made last year when Pache does go to AA in saying it might be a mistake.

AA has said "I won't rush guys" but based on what we've seen so far, we're likely 2 weeks, maybe even less of Pache continuing this to him going to AA. As he's not as aggressive, but he already surprised me with Kyle Muller going to A+ (which fwiw, I think is a mistake for it to be that early, but I don't run an organization).

I thought AA was going to slow the train down for a minute, but looks like nothing much has changed.

Muller was a little behind due to the late start, so I maybe see that one.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Anyway, if there's a lesson to be taught here, if Pache pans out down the road as a legit starter, it is indeed about how many more position player prospects pan out, even if it's not as stars, than pitchers.

Heck, even this year's team should show it. If Albies and Acuna continue to look like young stars and Swanson is at least an average regular, that's 3 of 3 (and some thought for a while that they were the true top 3 prospects in the organization...back in 2016). Even Camargo, who may not be a regular, looks like he's going to be useful as a bench player.

[UNCBlue012]

Welcome to ChopCountry.

FIFY

[Southcack77]

Well this went downhill fast.

Did it though? Were we mad or angry or disrespectful? I didn't sense we were.

[Enscheff]

I just have fun and dream. Baseball is an escape for me. Fandom, by definition, is irrational. You are rooting for people you have no connection with (in most cases) in something over which you have no control.

I know the likelihood of Pache ever being an All-Star, much less a perennial All-Star, is slim. I know Ronald will likely never be better than Mike Trout.

Fandom should be about fans being irrational together for the purpose of a common goal. It shouldn't involve absolute dicks like you ruining it for everyone. I have no problem with people arguing with my posts. I'm just having fun at the end of the day.

What I do have a problem with is your INCESSANT bullying, harassment, and abuse of thethe. I have a problem with you attacking the intelligence of other posters. I have a problem with you insulting entire regions of decent, hard-working people.

I mean, look at your signature. You are so insecure and pathetic.

I'm sorry Taylor.

Here. Hold this, and take it to daddy...

https://i.imgur.com/F0PSUwu.jpg

[Hawk]

https://i.imgflip.com/29ybnu.jpg

[Enscheff]

https://i.imgflip.com/29ybnu.jpg

You can't use an image from an OS that Little Taylor Swift is too young to have ever used!!

[mfree80]

I'm sorry Taylor.

Here. Hold this, and take it to daddy...

https://i.imgur.com/F0PSUwu.jpg

I am looking at your last few posts to see if they contribute anything to the discussion beyond mocking someone else... Have to go back a ways...

[Garmel]

I am looking at your last few posts to see if they contribute anything to the discussion beyond mocking someone else... Have to go back a ways...

We get about 1 or 2 good baseball stats a day from him and the rest of the day we have to deal with a petulant 10 year old.

[CrimsonCowboy]

It’s been a few days since I told posters here to knock it off. It was nice while it lasted.

Now knock it off

[SJ24]

1-2 tonight so far.

Average up to .315.

[ball4life32]

Josh Norris- @jnorris427
“Asked a veteran scout to name the best prospect he'd seen this year. His answer? The #Braves Cristian Pache.

What an unbelievably awesome system Atlanta has built.“

[SJ24]

Josh Norris- @jnorris427
“Asked a veteran scout to name the best prospect he'd seen this year. His answer? The #Braves Cristian Pache.

What an unbelievably awesome system Atlanta has built.“


HAHAHAHA.


We are so blessed.

[UNCBlue012]

Josh Norris- @jnorris427
“Asked a veteran scout to name the best prospect he'd seen this year. His answer? The #Braves Cristian Pache.

What an unbelievably awesome system Atlanta has built.“

I was literally just thinking about how well so many of our guys are doing in the minors when I realized we also have a top-10 draft pick coming up in June. Freaking insane. We'll likely be flourishing for years.

[ball4life32]

Jason Woodell- @JasonAtTheGame
“Cristian Pache stayed back, let the ball get deep, and nearly hit HR number 2. Doubled off top of LCF wall at the 390 mark. Easy power.”
12:43 PM · May 15, 2018 from Florida, USA

[SJ24]

Jason Woodell- @JasonAtTheGame
“Cristian Pache stayed back, let the ball get deep, and nearly hit HR number 2. Doubled off top of LCF wall at the 390 mark. Easy power.”
12:43 PM · May 15, 2018 from Florida, USA


Pache is going to be a star.

[Enscheff]

The rate the Braves appear to be hitting on these top position prospects is truly remarkable.

I guess they can afford to spend 2/3 of their resources on pitching prospects when almost every single position prospect pans out.

[Chico]

Jason Woodell- @JasonAtTheGame
“Cristian Pache stayed back, let the ball get deep, and nearly hit HR number 2. Doubled off top of LCF wall at the 390 mark. Easy power.”
12:43 PM · May 15, 2018 from Florida, USA

Easy Power?

I likey. I likey!

[CyYoung31]

The rate the Braves appear to be hitting on these top position prospects is truly remarkable.

I guess they can afford to spend 2/3 of their resources on pitching prospects when almost every single position prospect pans out.

https://media.giphy.com/media/GrfbgKsWRvA5y/giphy.gif

[Enscheff]

Jason Woodell- @JasonAtTheGame
“Cristian Pache stayed back, let the ball get deep, and nearly hit HR number 2. Doubled off top of LCF wall at the 390 mark. Easy power.”
12:43 PM · May 15, 2018 from Florida, USA

Guy has hit 1 HR in 143 PAs....and that's "easy power"?

[Tapate50]

Guy has hit 1 HR in 143 PAs....and that's "easy power"?

He’s a lot like Albies in that regard

[CJ9]

Video of the Pache double off the wall: https://twitter.com/JasonAtTheGame/status/996458611953012736

[Enscheff]

He’s a lot like Albies in that regard

Excellent. Adding another 50 HR bat will be nice.

[ball4life32]

Jason Woodell- @JasonAtTheGame
“With a 2-1 count, Pache swung at a FB tunneling into his hands. Inside out swing, easy 4-3 putout. Needs to damage in these situations consistently in order to tap into his true potential. Has all tools to become a middle of the order hitter.”

[thethe]

You have to think the Braves felt real good about Albies/Acuna/Pache when the rebuild started and altered their strategy as a result.

[Enscheff]

You have to think the Braves felt real good about Albies/Acuna/Pache when the rebuild started and altered their strategy as a result.

:facepalm:

[jpx7]

You have to think the Braves felt real good about Albies/Acuna/Pache when the rebuild started and altered their strategy as a result.

You in fact really have to stretch you gullibility (and sanity) to believe that. Based on his comments, it didn’t even seem like “the team”, in the person of John Hart, felt “real good” about Albies last year, when he was succeeding in the majors at 20.

[thethe]

You in fact really have to stretch you gullibility (and sanity) to believe that. Based on his comments, it didn’t even seem like “the team”, in the person of John Hart, even felt “real good” about Albies last year, when he was succeeding in the majors at 20.

That is succeeding at 20. That doesn't speak to his long term ability. And GM speak is always in code regardless of the GM. Never should take it literally.

[jpx7]

That is succeeding at 20. That doesn't speak to his long term ability.

?


And GM speak is always in code regardless of the GM. Never should take it literally.

So, as always, we’re in your reality, where externalities have no correspondents, the narrative is what produces the best feels, and we impute only the most charitable motivations and actions to the organization until the logical inconsistencies demand a blood sacrifice, at which point we blindly and blithely vilify an appointed whipping-boy.

[thethe]

?



So, as always, we’re in your reality, where externalities have no correspondents, the narrative is what produces the best feels, and we impute only the most charitable motivations and actions to the organization until the logical inconsistencies demand a blood sacrifice, at which point we blindly and blithely vilify an appointed whipping-boy.

You used a GM statement to counter what my thoughts were. You invited that into the conversation. Why should I have to rationalize it when I don't think that GM speak should ever be taken literally?

[jpx7]

You used a GM statement to counter what my thoughts were. You invited that into the conversation. Why should I have to rationalize it when I don't think that GM speak should ever be taken literally?

Why should you have to rationalize anything?

The idea that the previous administration planned their entire rebuild around three teenagers hitting their upper-tenth likelihoods is patently absurd. So you’re right, if you really believe that, we shouldn’t ask you to rationalize anything.

Facepalm, indeed.

[thethe]

Why should you have to rationalize anything?

The idea that the previous administration planned their entire rebuild around three teenagers hitting their upper-tenth likelihoods is patently absurd. So you’re right, if you really believe that, we shouldn’t ask you to rationalize anything.

Facepalm, indeed.

Those kids were excelling at a high level when they were 17. Uncharacteristically high that projects well moving forward historically.

But please...continue.

[Enscheff]

Derrrrrrp!

[jpx7]

But please...continue.

As ever, there’s never any point with you.
That I respond at all indicts my own sanity.

[Enscheff]

As ever, there’s never any point with you.
That I respond at all indicts my own sanity.

Ever watch The Middle?

Tehteh is essentially Sue Heck.

[CJ9]

Kiley got better video of the Pache double: https://twitter.com/kileymcd/status/996469575360368640

[Super]

Kiley got better video of the Pache double: https://twitter.com/kileymcd/status/996469575360368640

his video is more bias tho

[ball4life32]

2-6 today in the double header with a BB. (5)

Average - .294

[Tapate50]

Kiley got better video of the Pache double: https://twitter.com/kileymcd/status/996469575360368640

Quiet swing. Didn’t seem to swing that hard.

[bravesfanMatt]

You have to think the Braves felt real good about Albies/Acuna/Pache when the rebuild started and altered their strategy as a result.

Thethe. Seriously man. I am a fellow pozzie but I can’t do anything but shake my head at this.

[Enscheff]

Sue Heck and Taylor Swift make quite the duo!

[thewupk]

You have to think the Braves felt real good about Albies/Acuna/Pache when the rebuild started and altered their strategy as a result.

:HeywardWut:

[jpx7]

:HeywardWut:

You have to think that.

[thethe]

How many players at 17 years of age performed so well at the appy league level? Anyone care to pull up some comparisons for players and juxtapose it to what Albies/Acuna did?

[CyYoung31]

This thread is gold.

[CyYoung31]

Those kids were excelling at a high level when they were 17. Uncharacteristically high that projects well moving forward historically.

But please...continue.


That is succeeding at 20. That doesn’t speak to long-term ability.

Literally back to back posts.

[Deester11]

This thread is gold.
Yeah but the piling on of thethe seems.....right. And that ain't right.

[Enscheff]

I this point I think he likes it. Nobody can be this dense on accident.

[thewupk]

How many players at 17 years of age performed so well at the appy league level? Anyone care to pull up some comparisons for players and juxtapose it to what Albies/Acuna did?

You tell us since you think it's special.

[thethe]

Literally back to back posts.

Not the same point but sure why not. Join in. I enjoy it

[SJ24]

New comparison for Cristian Pache: Garry Maddox, AKA The Secretary of Defense.

Maddox was a 9-time Gold Glove winner for the Phillies who would hit around 14-15 bombs and flirt with .300.

He was a 5-6 WAR player at his peak.

I feel very good about this comparison.

[jpx7]

You tell us since you think it's special.

And that’s just the first layer of non-sense; because, even if the numbers of Acuña and Albies (and Pache somehow? even though he didn’t hit stateside ball until 2016, after the rebuild was well under way ...) in the Appalachian League were so extraordinarily unprecedented as to portend near-certain superstardom, then you still have to argue that I was both (i) a good idea and (ii) the actual idea to plan the entire rebuilding strategy around those two (or somehow three?) teenage prospects, which sounds like a swell strategy for an NBA roster, but is ludicrous on its own merits for an MLB team.

[Enscheff]

New comparison for Cristian Pache: Garry Maddox, AKA The Secretary of Defense.

Maddox was a 9-time Gold Glove winner for the Phillies who would hit around 14-15 bombs and flirt with .300.

He was a 5-6 WAR player at his peak.

I feel very good about this comparison.

LOL, I'm sure you are Taylor.

A 5-6 WAR player would have everyone doing back flips.

[SJ24]

LOL, I'm sure you are Taylor.

A 5-6 WAR player would have everyone doing back flips.

You better get in position.

Pache is going to be the Jayne Mansfield to Ronald Acuna's Marilyn Monroe.

What an outfield with which we are going to be blessed!

[Enscheff]

You better get in position.

Pache is going to be the Jayne Mansfield to Ronald Acuna's Marilyn Monroe.

What an outfield with which we are going to be blessed!

Sometimes I think Taylor is a fake account created just to make our very own Sue Heck appear to be a rational fan.

[jpx7]

You better get in position.

Pache is going to be the Jayne Mansfield to Ronald Acuna's Marilyn Monroe.

What an outfield with which we are going to be blessed!

Who gets to be Sophia Loren?

https://img.etsystatic.com/il/eadeb6/1301326773/il_570xN.1301326773_clgx.jpg?version=0

[GeorgiaGirl]

It's still luck if Riley and Pache pan out as quality role guys or higher for a winning club. Position player prospects work more than pitching but not everyone is supposed to work out even if they had X and X production in a lower league.

What's crazy is I think it's not improbable, even taking a more reasonable outlook. It doesn't look like anybody is busting yet, even if some guys aren't stars. The way things are going, it looks perfectly reasonable for a guy like Riley to come up and be a .250/.330 type bat with great power. And on the other hand in 2020, it looks perfectly reasonable that Pache would come up and at least be an average hitter with star caliber defense.

[ball4life32]

Pache 1-2 with a BB vs Sixto Sanchez.

[ball4life32]

Pretty good article on Pache.

“He can go to the big leagues now and be a Gold Glover in center field," Salazar said. "He's got great instincts in the outfield. He's got tremendous speed, and he's got a really good arm."

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/fsl-notes-pache-proves-golden-in-outfield/c-277674080?tcid=tw_article_277674080

[SJ24]

MY OH MY

[Enscheff]

EL OH EL

[mqt]

EL OH EL

For what it's worth, I'm encouraged with what I've seen from Pache. If anybody is expecting Acuña 2.0, they'll be disappointed. I'm just looking for any reason to think he can hit at a Major League level. If so, he's likely to be an impressive player given his defense.

[SJ24]

EL OH EL


With the new ball, anyone who can make consistent contact is now a power hitter. -Enscheff quotation from another thread

Pache has never hit below .281 (currently at .283) and his ISO has doubled this year at 19 years old in A+ ball. The big question with Pache has always been "power"

I may have actually damned faint praise upon Pache when I deemed him The Dominican Garry Maddox.

[Deester11]

-Enscheff quotation from another thread

Pache has never hit below .281 (currently at .283) and his ISO has doubled this year at 19 years old in A+ ball. The big question with Pache has always been "power"

I may have actually damned faint praise upon Pache when I deemed him The Dominican Garry Maddox.
Maybe, but I've seen him more than I saw Albies at a young age and I can tell you, he will make us all appreciate defense. He's that good. Secondly, his alter or tinker with his swing has looked great. Decent lift with continual gap power is huge. If he hits you 10 homers he's more than legit.

[Enscheff]

For what it's worth, I'm encouraged with what I've seen from Pache. If anybody is expecting Acuña 2.0, they'll be disappointed. I'm just looking for any reason to think he can hit at a Major League level. If so, he's likely to be an impressive player given his defense.

Pache is a good prospect.

I’m mocking Taylor’s attempt at taking tehteh’s tired act of relentlessly pimping every single Braves prospect and turning the dial up to 11.

[nsacpi]

Why is there no thread on Rileymonium.

[Southcack77]

https://2080baseball.com/reports/cristian-pache/

[ball4life32]

Pache FSL All Star

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/taylor-trammell-jesus-sanchez-among-florida-state-league-all-stars/c-279151834?tcid=tw_article_279151834

[SJ24]

Pache went 4-6 with ANOTHER HR (3) and a double the other night (June 1st)

Enscheff is sweating bullets.

[Enscheff]

Pache went 4-6 with ANOTHER HR (3) and a double the other night (June 1st)

Enscheff is sweating bullets.

Am I?

Silly Taylor.

How many HR/SB is Acuna pacing?

[SJ24]

Am I?

Silly Taylor.

How many HR/SB is Acuna pacing?


He was injured.

[Enscheff]

He was injured.

And what was he on pace to do before the injury?

[SJ24]

About to hit fever pitch.

They're lining up in the streets in the Dominican to listen to Fire Frog radio broadcasts.

[50PoundHead]

About to hit fever pitch.

They're lining up in the streets in the Dominican to listen to Fire Frog radio broadcasts.

Ranas de Fuego?

[SJ24]

Pache with a homer (7) and triple tonight so far.

He is firmly the Braves best prospect, IMO.

[Enscheff]

Pache with a homer (7) and triple tonight so far.

He is firmly the Braves best prospect, IMO.

30/30 in his rookie season?

[nsacpi]

Pache with a homer (7) and triple tonight so far.

He is firmly the Braves best prospect, IMO.

could well be

[SJ24]

ISO as an 18 year old in A ball: .062. .281 average and 0 home runs in 514 PA.

ISO as a 19 year old in A+ ball: .156. .280 average and 7 home runs in 322 PA.

[SJ24]

ISO as an 18 year old in A ball: .062. .281 average and 0 home runs in 514 PA.

ISO as a 19 year old in A+ ball: .156. .280 average and 7 home runs in 322 PA.

Also, his HR/FB% is 9.1%.

That is very sustainable.

[ball4life32]

And 6 of his home runs are in the last 35 games or so.

[thewupk]

He's going to look good in center in 2020

[SJ24]

He's going to look good in center in 2020

He's got the look.

6'3, 195ish. He's an NFL WR if he grows up in the States.

[SJ24]

CRISTIAN PACHE

MY OH MY

[ball4life32]

CRISTIAN PACHE

MY OH MY
Dudes unbelievable.

[SJ24]

Dudes unbelievable.

At this rate, he can be the number 1 prospect in all of baseball next year, much like Ronald was this year.

[SJ24]

Another hit for Pache. Line drive to center.

2-3 tonight. Now batting .284.

[GeorgiaGirl]

I know, it's unrelated, but my feeling now is Drew Waters is the Braves true next super prospect like Albies/Acuna. He does have less of a track record though. It's not knocking Pache, but just a feeling...

Top 4 Braves position prospects now to me:

1. Drew Waters
2. Cristian Pache
3. William Contreras
4. Austin Riley

[ball4life32]

Another hit for Pache. Line drive to center.

2-3 tonight. Now batting .284.

Now a walk. 3 walks in the last 4 games.

[TheBravos]

I know, it's unrelated, but my feeling now is Drew Waters is the Braves true next super prospect like Albies/Acuna. He does have less of a track record though. It's not knocking Pache, but just a feeling...

Top 4 Braves position prospects now to me:

1. Drew Waters
2. Cristian Pache
3. William Contreras
4. Austin Riley

I don’t want the Braves to trade ONE of those guys. Trade from pitching. I really like all these guys.

[CJ9]

Pache’s GB rate has gone from 64% last year to 51% this year.

[Carp]

Pache's new swing mechanics paying off in a big way. And he doesn't have to hit much to be a good player. Even if he's Simba pre-Angels, that'd be ok if his defense is as legit as reported.

Side note: I miss Simba :-(

[Enscheff]

At this rate, he can be the number 1 prospect in all of baseball next year, much like Ronald was this year.

Definitely not overreacting at all

[Deester11]

Definitely not overreacting at all
Lol....that's right. I did call it on him though.

[Super]

Pache's new swing mechanics paying off in a big way. And he doesn't have to hit much to be a good player. Even if he's Simba pre-Angels, that'd be ok if his defense is as legit as reported.

Side note: I miss Simba :-(

outrageous he's not an all-star

[Carp]

outrageous he's not an all-star

Yep. Highest 2nd highest WAR among AL SS even while missing some a couple weeks. I mean I know the AL has some beast at SS right now and Correa won the starting gig, but he's absolutely been better than Segura. Not even close really. May be Lindor or Correa will be forced to sit out and Simba can get that extra spot.

[thewupk]

Yep. Highest 2nd highest WAR among AL SS even while missing some a couple weeks. I mean I know the AL has some beast at SS right now and Correa won the starting gig, but he's absolutely been better than Segura. Not even close really. May be Lindor or Correa will be forced to sit out and Simba can get that extra spot.

He needs to do more back flips to get the votes

[Southcack77]

outrageous he's not an all-star

took the opportunity to check in on him since there have been some predictions made on the subject.

wRC+ in the mid 80s since June.

Maybe this is not the breakout year either.

[thewupk]

took the opportunity to check in on him since there have been some predictions made on the subject.

wRC+ in the mid 80s since June.

Maybe this is not the breakout year either.

The real question is whether he or Albies will be the 2nd best player from Curacao