How much do conservatives hate POTUS?

[The Chosen One]

So ever since Obama was sworn into office, the Republicans have basically said we're not going to help him right this ship at all at any cost. Their Leader in the Senate basically came out and said his job was to make POTUS a 1-term President for the history books. Speaker Boehner since taking the gavel, has publicly said he wants to make a deal but then a certain faction of his party gets into his head and then all of the sudden he's the great conservative fighter from Ohio.

Now in the midst of this, I've seen plenty of conservatives on social media and in Congress repeat the phrase "It has nothing to do with his skin color, we just strongly disagree with his policies".

Policies that previous Presidents have sworn by yet they were not called socialists (Modern Day Conservative translation: Communist Dictator) and disrespected. When Eisenhower or Reagan called to protect social security and medicare, they were not called socialist/communist dictators. Don't recall Bush 43 being called that either after Medicare Part D. This is not an argument on race. If some of you think I'm playing the race card I'm not, but if you think there's a bit of legitimacy to it, then feel free to engage and discuss.

As much of a dislike I had for Bush 43 during his tenure in office, I never wished ill-will upon him. Yeah there were uneducated Liberals who said "F--- Bush" and all that stuff. If our biggest enemies (China/Russia/Al Aqaeda) ever did any physical harm to him, I would be sad for our country and I would also be sad on his behalf.

However I get the strong feeling, reading conservative blogs, websites, and facebook groups, that if Obama 44 were to be assassinated tomorrow, that there'd be a pretty big private celebration by many in our country. I don't think someone like weso or sturg would do backflips, but there are sick conservatives out there who I think would publicly (whether they be celebrity like Rushbo or just your average conservative Joe on facebook) celebrate and cheer for Obama's death. I mean most of the sad albeit hilarious stuff about Obama firing generals so he can hire generals that would attack us, Obama is using Obamacare to get all of our personal information (as if he couldn't just ask the CIA or NSA to do it for him), etc to portray him as this second coming of Hitler... it's just sad. I see a fake story on Obama every 15 minutes on Facebook, some new conspiracy theory (like him staging Newtown Shootings to enact Gun Control), and then I click the image and read the comments posted. They're so hateful, they're so ridiculous it makes me sad to know people believe in it, then it makes me even more sad when I see 80-100 people like the comment like "Get this god hating muslim dictator tyrant out of our office and put a real american in there!!" That 80-100 people can only in estimation represent a bigger demographic that's no longer just a radical fringe, but a mainstream ideology.

I don't think a portion of our country would rally together and say "You killed our President, now we're coming after you.", instead they'd probably say "Thank you for doing us a favor".

The hate or "dislike" for this POTUS is unmatched in modern times. Bush was called an idiot, but let's face it he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. He had his awkward and WTF were you thinking moments. Obama is a complete 180. Even when he doesn't have the real answer, he generally remains level-headed and gives a BS answer under cool.

The fact that POTUS is basically being blamed for EVERYTHING under the Sun by the right. I mean Abu Ghirab was terrible terrible terrible. I never blamed Bush for it. I could blame Rumsfeld more than anything, but I doubt if Bush knew this was going on he'd let it continue. He's not THAT stupid. I can't blame Obama for everything Holder does, for everything that happened in Benghazi, for all the NSA stuff. I didn't pin the blame on Bush for everything that happened terribly within his administration that Cheney was responsible for, but I see BO 44 doesn't get that same slack.

[The Chosen One]

Last few years it's basically been this.

Obama: Let's reform healthcare.
GOP: WHAT ABOUT THE JOBS WHERE ARE THE JOBS?!!?

Obama: Let's focus on a jobs bill.
GOP: WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT BENGHAZI!?!?

Obama: Let's discuss immigration reform.
GOP: WHY ARE YOU SPYING ON OUR ALLIES, TERRIBLE PRESIDENT!

Obama: Let's repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell
GOP: YOU ARE GOING TO RAISE TAXES ON ALL OF US.

Obama: Let's talk Grand Bargain.
GOP: WHERE ARE THE JOBS!! JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

Obama: Ok let's talk jobs bill again.
GOP: WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY.

[sturg33]

Why do conservatives dislike Obama? Tons of reasons - I saw this online the other day and it made me chuckle. But unfortunately, it's pretty accurate

Bob: "Hey Jim, did you hear about the Obama administration scandal?,

Jim: "You mean the Mexican gun running?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean SEAL Team 6?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Obama saying the avg family would save $2,500 on their premiums?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Forcing businesses to violate their religious beliefs by paying for drugs that abort the unborn?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Violating the rights and sanctity of our Churches?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Spending $634 million on a website that doesn't work?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Obama calling for an increase in our debt when he lambasted Bush for the very same thing?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Obama having NSA spy on 124 Billion Phone Calls in One Month?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Saddling our kids with $17 trillion in debt of which they can
never get out of and will not have as good a life as we have?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Bailing out Detroit after decades of corrupt Democratic management?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean the State Dept. lying about Benghazi?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean voter fraud?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Intentionally trying to hurt Americans during the sequester?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Blocking veterans who secured our freedoms from their monuments
but giving the green light for Illegals to use Monument Mall?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Denying school kids the ability to tour the White House but still spending lavishly on his parties?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean Obama saying we can keep our insurance and doctors if we wanted to?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The NSA monitoring foreign diplomats?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean the use of drones in our own country without the benefit of the law?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million and right after it declared bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean the president arming the Muslim Brotherhood?"

Bob: "No the other one:.

Jim: "The IRS targeting conservatives?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The DOJ spying on the press?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Sebelius shaking down health insurance executives?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "You mean Obama spending $3.7 Trillion on Welfare Over Last 5 Years"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Giving SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 months later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything else?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Millions of Americans losing their health care coverage?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Forcing Americans to include coverage in their insurance policies of items they do not want?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Ordering the release of nearly 10,000 illegal immigrants from jails and prisons, and falsely blaming the sequester?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Denying Arizona the right to protect its borders?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Providing weapons to Syrian rebels many of whom apparently are Al Queda"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The president's repeated violation of the law requiring him to submit a

budget no later than the first Monday in February?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The 2012 vote where 115% of all registered voters in some counties voted 100% for Obama?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The president's unconstitutional recess appointments in an attempt to circumvent the Senate's advise-and-consent role?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "Clinton, the IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim: "The President using nearly $1 trillion dollars of stimulus money to fund his cronies?"

Bob: "No, the other one"

Jim: "You mean Fast & Furious?"

Bob: "No, the other one."

Jim:

"I give up! ... Oh wait, I think I got it! You mean that 65 million

low-information voters who don't pay taxes and get free stuff from

taxpayers and stuck us again with the most pandering, corrupt

administration in American history?"

Bob: "THAT'S THE ONE!"

[Julio3000]

Let's talk about the word "scandal" for a sec . . .

[Hawk]

So, instead of blaming the President, we should blame Republicans (conservatives/right-wingers/tea-partiers)?

Since when is it inappropriate to hold a person in charge responsible for failures that came under their control?

[sturg33]

Let's talk about the word "scandal" for a sec . . .

Yeah - it was a copy/paste. I certainly don't agree with the whole lot, but it is really amazing how much **** Obama has done and got away with from his base

[CK86]

I don't hate the President, I do hate his policies though. I fear the NSA scandals and the complete lack of accountability and transparency will ultimately be his legacy while causing infinitely more harm than good.

The NSA is doing its best to cripple the tech industry and soon the economy will follow.

[Krgrecw]

The dislike does have a little to do with skin color ( does for the majority of my friends) but I don't think believe people truly wish ill will towards Obama. It's all a figure of speech.

Sav, if Obama were a white man do you think the press would give him as much love and forgiveness that they have given this black Obama? I don't think so.

[weso1]

I really just think your anti pub homerism is clouding your judgement. Everyone pulls for their guy and against the other guy the same way they root for their teams and root against the other team. It's fantasy to think there's some complicated motive behind those who grump about Obama's policies other than the usual homerism.

[acesfull86]

Has it gotten so bad for Obama's presidency that we're going to do the whole "they hate him cause he's black!" thing again?

[AerchAngel]

I am black and think he is the worst president we had since Carter. Sturg brought up a lot that that he has done wrong.

Do I hate him? No, that is reserved for Cheney and Cheney alone. As he sucked as a president, yes and there is too much proof to say otherwise. His list of lies is so long that I do not believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Even the Europeans despise him. He has no friends except the Muslim Brotherhood and perhaps the Mexican cartels. Putin thinks he is a joke. China just laughs.

[Oklahomahawk]

So, instead of blaming the President, we should blame Republicans (conservatives/right-wingers/tea-partiers)?

Since when is it inappropriate to hold a person in charge responsible for failures that came under their control?

Well as I recall it was inappropriate as hell from the years 2001-2009 here, or rather back at the Ranch, so to speak. Repubs have damn short memories about how W did no wrong for 8 straight years when President Cheney was in charge.

[Gary82]

There are no good leaders, and at least he isn't Bush (or Cheney if you will.) I'd say he's probably in the middle of the pack if you were to rank all of the presidents.

[AerchAngel]

There are no good leaders, and at least he isn't Bush (or Cheney if you will.) I'd say he's probably in the middle of the pack if you were to rank all of the presidents.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAH!!


The world hates him. He has done so much damage, I do not know how long it will take before we have friends anymore.

His list of lies are so long....wow....I do not need to go on. Bush, even though I despise him almost as much and hate Cheney, did not have this many gaffs and at least leaders around the world didn't hate him, except the Muslims. No way he even sniff in the middle of the pack, he hasn't done anything that is noteworthy for the betterment of the country as a whole, meaning for liberals, conservatives, everyone. Obamination Care actually is terrible and the security issues will never be fixed. Hackers are already salivating at the amount of personal information they are going to glean from the system that has not much security at all.

[The Chosen One]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAH!!


The world hates him. He has done so much damage, I do not know how long it will take before we have friends anymore.

His list of lies are so long....wow....I do not need to go on. Bush, even though I despise him almost as much and hate Cheney, did not have this many gaffs and at least leaders around the world didn't hate him, except the Muslims. No way he even sniff in the middle of the pack, he hasn't done anything that is noteworthy for the betterment of the country as a whole, meaning for liberals, conservatives, everyone. Obamination Care actually is terrible and the security issues will never be fixed. Hackers are already salivating at the amount of personal information they are going to glean from the system that has not much security at all.

Bush was only liked internationally by the UK... not many leaders were that fond of him. You have to remember he dragged in pretty much most of our allies into Iraq (albeit they were small coalitions unlike the UK who had a bigger commitment).

BO 44 may have foreign leaders that don't like him, but his popularity worldwide amongst the people is almost on par with Clinton. Maybe in the extreme Middle East he's not well liked, but he's actually very well liked by the Israeli people, even if it means Netanyahu isn't his biggest fan because he hasn't bent over for Israel.

[Gary82]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAH!!


The world hates him. He has done so much damage, I do not know how long it will take before we have friends anymore.

His list of lies are so long....wow....I do not need to go on. Bush, even though I despise him almost as much and hate Cheney, did not have this many gaffs and at least leaders around the world didn't hate him, except the Muslims. No way he even sniff in the middle of the pack, he hasn't done anything that is noteworthy for the betterment of the country as a whole, meaning for liberals, conservatives, everyone. Obamination Care actually is terrible and the security issues will never be fixed. Hackers are already salivating at the amount of personal information they are going to glean from the system that has not much security at all.

Are you saying Bush's approach to foreign policy has been better than Obama's?

[yeezus]

Are you saying Bush's approach to foreign policy has been better than Obama's?

I think he's saying that...somehow.

[sturg33]

Are you saying Bush's approach to foreign policy has been better than Obama's?

They're different?

[AerchAngel]

They're different?

exactly.

They aren't.

Muslims hate everyone. The Brotherhood likes Obama, so score one for Obama.

[AerchAngel]

Are you saying Bush's approach to foreign policy has been better than Obama's?

No, but he doesn't piss off foreign nation leaders as Obama has. Spying on France, England, Sweden, Germany, et al. Bush didn't do it so blatantly and got caught. I lived over there for 8 years, do you really think they care about the POTUS, eff to the effing naw they don't. The only time they care is when troops of their country has to come and help out the US, this is were Dumbya effed up but I blame it on Cheney, who I hope the devil burn his soul for eternity.

[AerchAngel]

Bush was only liked internationally by the UK... not many leaders were that fond of him. You have to remember he dragged in pretty much most of our allies into Iraq (albeit they were small coalitions unlike the UK who had a bigger commitment).

BO 44 may have foreign leaders that don't like him, but his popularity worldwide amongst the people is almost on par with Clinton. Maybe in the extreme Middle East he's not well liked, but he's actually very well liked by the Israeli people, even if it means Netanyahu isn't his biggest fan because he hasn't bent over for Israel.

And Obamination spied on them and got caught. Tapping their phones. THat is far worse.

I wish the first president of the US that was black was a Conservative, because he wouldn't effed up as much as Obama. Everyone hates him now, even the media is turning on him. Heck, at work we can't even go to any site that has the word "Obama" in it, that is how messed up it is. THe only word that is banned. You can put the "N" word or any cuss word, not even banned. I wish our race would disown him, he makes all of us look bad.

[cajunrevenge]

Well atleast Ron Paul isnt president. Bringing the troops home, not have the NSA spy on your communications, no Obamacare, actually having a fiscally sane government budget, and not attacking countries that didnt attack us. Thank god we didnt have to live through that nightmare.

You can complain about Obama all you want but McCain and Romney would have been just as bad. But lets keep voting in status quo candidates, eventually they will stop sucking right?

[Oklahomahawk]

You can complain about Obama all you want but McCain and Romney would have been just as bad. But lets keep voting in status quo candidates, eventually they will stop sucking right?

Dude, you need to quit talking sense like this, you'll become a pariah around here. :eusa_clap:


Oh and while I forget who posted it previously but why can so many people still not see that old man Gepetto is STILL running this country. The strings are incredibly obvious if you are just willing to see them.

[57Brave]

What are you calling status quo?

Because I've seen an awful lot of"status quo" go by the wayside the past few years

[AerchAngel]

Well atleast Ron Paul isnt president. Bringing the troops home, not have the NSA spy on your communications, no Obamacare, actually having a fiscally sane government budget, and not attacking countries that didnt attack us. Thank god we didnt have to live through that nightmare.

You can complain about Obama all you want but McCain and Romney would have been just as bad. But lets keep voting in status quo candidates, eventually they will stop sucking right?

McSame I would agree, Romney is a Democrat, so you are probably right. I don't think he would have this many gaffs and have the world hate us, but he would suck as a president.

Democrats and Republicans are a bunch of idiots and then there are Libertarians, not far behind them. As Okie Hawk said Gepetto is still in charge and people like Steak Sauce will follow his party no matter how stupid they do things and look while doing it.

[Tapate50]

Oh man, I came in this thread thinking there would be substance in the answer.

But instead I got " Because he is kinda black". This isn't the 1960's at an all white southern college. That reasoning is just lazy...

[Gary82]

Oh man, I came in this thread thinking there would be substance in the answer.

But instead I got " Because he is kinda black". This isn't the 1960's at an all white southern college. That reasoning is just lazy...

Yeah, racists put more effort in being subtle about their beliefs these days. Unless you go visit extended family, or people at your workplace know that there isn't a black person in the office. Then 1960s rolls right back out.

[jpx7]

You can complain about Obama all you want but McCain and Romney would have been just as bad. But lets keep voting in status quo candidates, eventually they will stop sucking right?

I don't necessarily think "Ron Paul" is the answer to this question, but I very much agree with the general sentiment.

[weso1]

Oh man, I came in this thread thinking there would be substance in the answer.

But instead I got " Because he is kinda black". This isn't the 1960's at an all white southern college. That reasoning is just lazy...

Trolls gonna troll.

[goldfly]

the reaction to wiretapping foreign leaders is so weird to me when it is compared to the reaction of wiretapping the citizens

anyway


Stewart broke down why all of that went down without anyone in Congress or the President knowing cause between W and O and then Congress, they passed the laws that allowed the NSA to do it

[goldfly]

great, a bunch of replies thinking that racism is dead in this country and that a way larger than should be part of the base does hate him cause he is black is ignored

both sides of that argument have truths in them


he is without a doubt the most disrespected president by the other side of the aisle i have ever seen. i don't know why that is but it is

and i am not talking about the voting base when i say that, i am saying actual congressmen

[The Chosen One]

great, a bunch of replies thinking that racism is dead in this country and that a way larger than should be part of the base does hate him cause he is black is ignored

both sides of that argument have truths in them


he is without a doubt the most disrespected president by the other side of the aisle i have ever seen. i don't know why that is but it is

and i am not talking about the voting base when i say that, i am saying actual congressmen

That's kind of the point I was making...

The first part and second part are not mutually exclusive. Now I'm not saying every Conservative thinks that way, but we already had one poster here say that's what's discussed amongst his friends.

I've never seen a President tthis disrespected and hated this much ever, and I'm sure we've never had a President have this much conspiracy theories started on him before and have had as many snopes pages before.

[weso1]

I'm not convinced the premise is true. The OP needs to prove the premise before I try and argue the reasoning behind a potentially flawed premise.

[50PoundHead]

In answer to the OP, a lot, but hate is probably the wrong word. I actually think they hated Clinton a lot and if the economy hadn't been booming through the 1990s, there would have been even more vitriol. I do think that a lot of folks have pre-conceived notions about Obama that aren't really true, but I don't know if that dissonance reaches the level of true hate, at least for most.

At the same time, I didn't think much of Bush and Cheney, but I thought my friends to the left of me (and I am left-of-center) really went over the line a lot in their criticism of W. I don't know if one can go over the line with Cheney and his neocon posse, but even the criticism of that crowd got unnecessarily petty.

[Tapate50]

In answer to the OP, a lot, but hate is probably the wrong word. I actually think they hated Clinton a lot and if the economy hadn't been booming through the 1990s, there would have been even more vitriol. I do think that a lot of folks have pre-conceived notions about Obama that aren't really true, but I don't know if that dissonance reaches the level of true hate, at least for most.

At the same time, I didn't think much of Bush and Cheney, but I thought my friends to the left of me (and I am left-of-center) really went over the line a lot in their criticism of W. I don't know if one can go over the line with Cheney and his neocon posse, but even the criticism of that crowd got unnecessarily petty.

Hollywood\Media was VERY aggressive to W. Short memory is the main story here.

Very easy to forget Michael Moore and his crusades I guess.

[BedellBrave]

In answer to the OP, a lot, but hate is probably the wrong word. I actually think they hated Clinton a lot and if the economy hadn't been booming through the 1990s, there would have been even more vitriol. I do think that a lot of folks have pre-conceived notions about Obama that aren't really true, but I don't know if that dissonance reaches the level of true hate, at least for most.

At the same time, I didn't think much of Bush and Cheney, but I thought my friends to the left of me (and I am left-of-center) really went over the line a lot in their criticism of W. I don't know if one can go over the line with Cheney and his neocon posse, but even the criticism of that crowd got unnecessarily petty.


We see what we want to see. When it's our team's guy, then the opposition is just the worst. When it is the other team's guy, it's "well he deserves it." Strong post 50.

[goldfly]

Hollywood\Media was VERY aggressive to W. Short memory is the main story here.

Very easy to forget Michael Moore and his crusades I guess.

your examples are of non elected people

[bravesnumberone]

Not a fan of Bush, but all the democrats did was bitch from day 1 because he "stole" the 2000 election.

To think that the republicans are the only people who whine when they don't get their way is astonishingly hypocritical.

But you are right, Obama is the best president ever. And you better not make legitimate criticisms of his policies, or you're a rayyyyyyycissssttttt

[Tapate50]

Not a fan of Bush, but all the democrats did was bitch from day 1 because he "stole" the 2000 election.

To think that the republicans are the only people who whine when they don't get their way is astonishingly hypocritical.

But you are right, Obama is the best president ever. And you better not make legitimate criticisms of his policies, or you're a rayyyyyyycissssttttt

Yep. Part of being a good leader and President is being able to reach across the isle to get the job done.

[BedellBrave]

Are folks in this thread actually implying that there weren't Democrats (elected officials) who bitched and moaned about Bush and ridiculed him?

[Julio3000]

Are folks in this thread actually implying that there weren't Democrats (elected officials) who bitched and moaned about Bush and ridiculed him?

There certainly were. And there were conspiracy theorists and lefties who blew inconsequential issues out of proportion. There was a cottage industry of Bush ridicule in the entertainment world. Your larger point is correct. Everyone likes their guys, everybody hates the other guys.

A few differences, though...there were people who attacked the legitimacy of Bush's presidency, for sure. On the other hand, isn't it fair to consider that there was at least some reason to do so? He lost the popular vote in 2000 and, without a friendly SCOTUS, the final electoral count could well have been different. That definitely made for some sour grapes, which in some cases lasted far beyond what I consider to be reasonable or decorous. Contrast that with the anti-Obama crowd, though. There was a considerable contingent who didn't accept Obama's original election—blowout though it was—and who maintain a position that, despite Republicans losing the Presidency, the Senate, and seats in the House, that his victory in 2012 didn't represent an affirmation of his agenda.

Were Congressional Democrats, as a group, as vitriolic and obstructionist as the current Republican congress? Was there a Joe Wilson moment that I'm forgetting?

There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

Finally, I get that people are sensitive to accusations that that opposition to Obama = racism. I'd just encourage you to remember two things:

1) It was not at all uncommon for opposition to Bush to be tarred as "Un-American." Opposition to Bush foreign policy was routinely equated with support for terrorism.
2) Obama, since the 08 election cycle, has attracted a lot of talk about how he's not "one of us." There has been an effort to depict him as The Other, and attacks on his religion, ethnicity, and upbringing. This is pretty clearly playing on racist feelings, and the Repulican electorate has been getting progressively older and whiter during that time period. Now, this doesn't mean that any particular individual with any particular beef is RAYCISS, but it's IMO unrealistic to pretend that there isn't a lot of racism directed at Obama.

And, as a side note, I think that some of the younger posters may not have been as politically aware during the Clinton years, and may not have realized the depths of the Clinton-hate. It was extremely personal, and I would characterize it as "hate." Talk about a cottage industry—anti-Clinton polemics and radio yakking launched countless careers. There were people who used a national platform to accuse the President and First Lady of orchestrating the murder of a staff member . . . hell, at least one. I think they pinned Ron Brown's plane crash on him, too. You didn't have to go to the darkest corners of the internet to find that stuff.

[jpx7]

There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

This.

[BedellBrave]

There certainly were. And there were conspiracy theorists and lefties who blew inconsequential issues out of proportion. There was a cottage industry of Bush ridicule in the entertainment world. Your larger point is correct. Everyone likes their guys, everybody hates the other guys.

A few differences, though...there were people who attacked the legitimacy of Bush's presidency, for sure. On the other hand, isn't it fair to consider that there was at least some reason to do so? He lost the popular vote in 2000 and, without a friendly SCOTUS, the final electoral count could well have been different. That definitely made for some sour grapes, which in some cases lasted far beyond what I consider to be reasonable or decorous. Contrast that with the anti-Obama crowd, though. There was a considerable contingent who didn't accept Obama's original election—blowout though it was—and who maintain a position that, despite Republicans losing the Presidency, the Senate, and seats in the House, that his victory in 2012 didn't represent an affirmation of his agenda.

Were Congressional Democrats, as a group, as vitriolic and obstructionist as the current Republican congress? Was there a Joe Wilson moment that I'm forgetting?

There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

Finally, I get that people are sensitive to accusations that that opposition to Obama = racism. I'd just encourage you to remember two things:

1) It was not at all uncommon for opposition to Bush to be tarred as "Un-American." Opposition to Bush foreign policy was routinely equated with support for terrorism.
2) Obama, since the 08 election cycle, has attracted a lot of talk about how he's not "one of us." There has been an effort to depict him as The Other, and attacks on his religion, ethnicity, and upbringing. This is pretty clearly playing on racist feelings, and the Repulican electorate has been getting progressively older and whiter during that time period. Now, this doesn't mean that any particular individual with any particular beef is RAYCISS, but it's IMO unrealistic to pretend that there isn't a lot of racism directed at Obama.

And, as a side note, I think that some of the younger posters may not have been as politically aware during the Clinton years, and may not have realized the depths of the Clinton-hate. It was extremely personal, and I would characterize it as "hate." Talk about a cottage industry—anti-Clinton polemics and radio yakking launched countless careers. There were people who used a national platform to accuse the President and First Lady of orchestrating the murder of a staff member . . . hell, at least one. I think they pinned Ron Brown's plane crash on him, too. You didn't have to go to the darkest corners of the internet to find that stuff.


You could of just stopped after the first paragraph...

[50PoundHead]

There certainly were. And there were conspiracy theorists and lefties who blew inconsequential issues out of proportion. There was a cottage industry of Bush ridicule in the entertainment world. Your larger point is correct. Everyone likes their guys, everybody hates the other guys.

A few differences, though...there were people who attacked the legitimacy of Bush's presidency, for sure. On the other hand, isn't it fair to consider that there was at least some reason to do so? He lost the popular vote in 2000 and, without a friendly SCOTUS, the final electoral count could well have been different. That definitely made for some sour grapes, which in some cases lasted far beyond what I consider to be reasonable or decorous. Contrast that with the anti-Obama crowd, though. There was a considerable contingent who didn't accept Obama's original election—blowout though it was—and who maintain a position that, despite Republicans losing the Presidency, the Senate, and seats in the House, that his victory in 2012 didn't represent an affirmation of his agenda.

Were Congressional Democrats, as a group, as vitriolic and obstructionist as the current Republican congress? Was there a Joe Wilson moment that I'm forgetting?

There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

Finally, I get that people are sensitive to accusations that that opposition to Obama = racism. I'd just encourage you to remember two things:

1) It was not at all uncommon for opposition to Bush to be tarred as "Un-American." Opposition to Bush foreign policy was routinely equated with support for terrorism.
2) Obama, since the 08 election cycle, has attracted a lot of talk about how he's not "one of us." There has been an effort to depict him as The Other, and attacks on his religion, ethnicity, and upbringing. This is pretty clearly playing on racist feelings, and the Repulican electorate has been getting progressively older and whiter during that time period. Now, this doesn't mean that any particular individual with any particular beef is RAYCISS, but it's IMO unrealistic to pretend that there isn't a lot of racism directed at Obama.

And, as a side note, I think that some of the younger posters may not have been as politically aware during the Clinton years, and may not have realized the depths of the Clinton-hate. It was extremely personal, and I would characterize it as "hate." Talk about a cottage industry—anti-Clinton polemics and radio yakking launched countless careers. There were people who used a national platform to accuse the President and First Lady of orchestrating the murder of a staff member . . . hell, at least one. I think they pinned Ron Brown's plane crash on him, too. You didn't have to go to the darkest corners of the internet to find that stuff.

That is true. The "otherness" of Obama has been transferred to a lot of his policies to make them seem more radical than they actually are. I always get a good laugh out of the "socialist" charge. He's a tick to the left of Bill Clinton, if that. If his health plan was socialist, than so was pretty much all of the plan Gingrich proposed back in the 1990s in response to what Clinton's task force proposed.

Obama has been routinely and consistently attacked from the left in publications like The Nation. He's pretty much your standard left-of-center establishment consensus guy. He ain't Kucinich.

[Julio3000]

You could of just stopped after the first paragraph...

Or I could have continued, and made the point that I think that all of us are best served to try to be objective on occasion, despite our prejudices. I guess the alternative is to be hyperpartisan until you get backed into a corner, then pull out the "but everybody does it" card.

[BedellBrave]

Just do a Google search of images for George W. Bush and target or Hitler or monkey or decapitated or assassinated. Which reminds me, wasn't there even a film entitled, Death of a President?

[Julio3000]

That is true. The "otherness" of Obama has been transferred to a lot of his policies to make them seem more radical than they actually are. I always get a good laugh out of the "socialist" charge. He's a tick to the left of Bill Clinton, if that. If his health plan was socialist, than so was pretty much all of the plan Gingrich proposed back in the 1990s in response to what Clinton's task force proposed.

Obama has been routinely and consistently attacked from the left in publications like The Nation. He's pretty much your standard left-of-center establishment consensus guy. He ain't Kucinich.

Clinton, the previous Great Satan, was likewise called a socialist, a Marxist, etc . . . and was the patron saint of the DLC/Third Way bunch, who were about as popular with actual lefties as so-called RINOS are with Tea Partiers.

[BedellBrave]

And speaking of racism, just do another search of images of Condelezza Rice...

[Julio3000]

Just do a Google search of images for George W. Bush and target or Hitler or monkey or decapitated or assassinated. Which reminds me, wasn't there even a film entitled, Death of a President?

There was. A film written, directed, and produced by notorious members of the American left—oh, wait . . . actually by non-Americans.

[BedellBrave]

Was it Brits or Canadians? Matters little to me. It's just a silly and short-sighted, game to act like any political "team" out there today doesn't include haters, racists, bigots, or idiots. It's also unhelpful, imho, to try to explain away or rationalize it, as if the other "team" couldn't do the same. We can all play that game.

[Dalyn]

You have to give politicians one thing, they are masters at keeping us arguing amongst ourselves long enough to rob us blind without getting caught. That is why every election is about abortion and *** marriage and blah blah blah.

[sturg33]

You have to give politicians one thing, they are masters at keeping us arguing amongst ourselves long enough to rob us blind without getting caught. That is why every election is about abortion and *** marriage and blah blah blah.

Yep. I always laugh when people vote for folks based on their stance on abortion or *** marriage.... They're not ever going to do anything to change it

[Dalyn]

Yep. I always laugh when people vote for folks based on their stance on abortion or *** marriage.... They're not ever going to do anything to change it

Exactly. Saying you are for or against those two issues guarantees you either the hardcore right-wing vote or the hardcore left-wing vote. And the ensuing argument drowns out the voice of those in the middle who could possibly create some measure of change if ever allowed to be heard. Meanwhile, honest politicians spend millions to get a job that pays next to nothing (compared to what they spent). Yet they all make bank skimming off the top on the way in and the bottom on the way out.

[sturg33]

Exactly. Saying you are for or against those two issues guarantees you either the hardcore right-wing vote or the hardcore left-wing vote. And the ensuing argument drowns out the voice of those in the middle who could possibly create some measure of change if ever allowed to be heard. Meanwhile, honest politicians spend millions to get a job that pays next to nothing (compared to what they spent). Yet they all make bank skimming off the top on the way in and the bottom on the way out.

I actually had a conversation with Ron Paul about abortion. He told me that house republicans NEVER want the abortion law changed, because it such a huge rallying cry for R voters. If it ever did get changed, the left would have the same rallying call and make it impossible for R's to ever win an election (pretty much at that point anyway)

[Dalyn]

What many don't seem to realize is that what we are seeing is exactly how this was all built to be run (just about). It is a system designed for stalemate on almost every issue except the obvious ones. Just think about it. When does everything go to ****? When either party controls enough of the government to get stuff done. This would all work fine if we made sure elected officials couldn't profit financially off their decisions.

[Julio3000]

Was it Brits or Canadians? Matters little to me. It's just a silly and short-sighted, game to act like any political "team" out there today doesn't include haters, racists, bigots, or idiots.

You think I disagree with that?

But wait, it matters little to you that this movie that you were specifically using as a burn was not produced by Americans?

It's also unhelpful, imho, to try to explain away or rationalize it, as if the other "team" couldn't do the same. We can all play that game.

Sure, if you see it as a game. Or, there can be some amount of objective truth in a given argument.

[Dalyn]

It is just common sense that a business can only profit/survive so long with someone stealing from it. 500+ stealing? Yeah.

[Dalyn]

I actually had a conversation with Ron Paul about abortion. He told me that house republicans NEVER want the abortion law changed, because it such a huge rallying cry for R voters. If it ever did get changed, the left would have the same rallying call and make it impossible for R's to ever win an election (pretty much at that point anyway)

I believe that. And I am certain there are similar issues for the left where they feel the same. What do you need for a successful public heist? A distraction.

[jpx7]

He ain't Kucinich.

Would that he were.

[Oklahomahawk]

I actually had a conversation with Ron Paul about abortion. He told me that house republicans NEVER want the abortion law changed, because it such a huge rallying cry for R voters. If it ever did get changed, the left would have the same rallying call and make it impossible for R's to ever win an election (pretty much at that point anyway)


Just curious sturg, what did/have the Repubs on this board said to you in reference to this statement? Denial, rebuttals, ignoring it, hoping it will go away or that nobody (particularly an ahole like me who's been saying this for quite some time) would notice?? What say you???

[Gary82]

I actually had a conversation with Ron Paul about abortion. He told me that house republicans NEVER want the abortion law changed, because it such a huge rallying cry for R voters. If it ever did get changed, the left would have the same rallying call and make it impossible for R's to ever win an election (pretty much at that point anyway)

He probably means Republican leaders, think tanks and strategists.

[BedellBrave]

You think I disagree with that?

But wait, it matters little to you that this movie that you were specifically using as a burn was not produced by Americans?

It's also unhelpful, imho, to try to explain away or rationalize it, as if the other "team" couldn't do the same. We can all play that game.

Sure, if you see it as a game. Or, there can be some amount of objective truth in a given argument.


Okay Julio.

[sturg33]

Just curious sturg, what did/have the Repubs on this board said to you in reference to this statement? Denial, rebuttals, ignoring it, hoping it will go away or that nobody (particularly an ahole like me who's been saying this for quite some time) would notice?? What say you???

Denial - Ron Paul is crazy after all

[The Chosen One]

I'm not convinced the premise is true. The OP needs to prove the premise before I try and argue the reasoning behind a potentially flawed premise.

Here is a starter.

https://www.facebook.com/JudgeNapolitano

Just read a lot of the comments on there.

That's not even the tip of the iceberg from what I've seen before on facebook.

The birthers are still going strong, the stuff about him being a homosexual, the questioning of his school stuff.

There are facebook pages dedicated to "Obama went to school as Barry Soetoro" with tons of people on there linking to new and new conspiracies everyday. Like I said, anywhere from Obama staged Newtown and Colorado, to he's firing generals who refuse to shoot civilians should there be a government takeover.

[Oklahomahawk]

Denial - Ron Paul is crazy after all

Dude, so why don't you push them on it, make them finally wake the pfark up and see their party has gone to ****?? I mean, after all it's the truth, whether they want to admit it or not, their party is effing lying to them, and using them, getting their vote, support, money, etc. when they have ZERO intention of doing the things they promise, they are only using their support to keep lining their pockets!!! And add to it, as effing pathetic as this is generally speaking, it's even worse for those who really believe those aholes are going to do things for moral reasons...

[50PoundHead]

Here is a starter.

https://www.facebook.com/JudgeNapolitano

Just read a lot of the comments on there.

That's not even the tip of the iceberg from what I've seen before on facebook.

The birthers are still going strong, the stuff about him being a homosexual, the questioning of his school stuff.

There are facebook pages dedicated to "Obama went to school as Barry Soetoro" with tons of people on there linking to new and new conspiracies everyday. Like I said, anywhere from Obama staged Newtown and Colorado, to he's firing generals who refuse to shoot civilians should there be a government takeover.

There's a state legislator in Minnesota who has actually told this to his constituents in public.

[sturg33]

I'm not quite sure I understand the beef. I mean, how much do liberals hate the tea party? I mean, they call them extremists - heck even terrorists!

But I was never able to understand why it was extreme for the tea party to be willing to shut down the government over Obamacare funding, but it wasn't considered "extreme" for liberals who were willing to shut down the government over Obamacare funding. Public polls would suggest that the Rs were closer to the mainstream, no?

But it's OK for liberals to call anyone who believes in the constitution (for the record, I don't believe the tea party does), as extreme terrorists.

[The Chosen One]

lol

Not sure what's worse, the 235k shares, or the fact that he thinks he couldn't get it to work (implying the government was not letting him share it).

http://oi42.tinypic.com/24ffo5e.jpg

[BedellBrave]

Hey Sav, do you get out much...I mean on this internet thing?

[The Chosen One]

Hey Sav, do you get out much...I mean on this internet thing?

I get out a lot actually, and I actually see this stuff in person when I go around town...

Bumper stickers such as "I want an American-Born President in White House". "I didn't vote for the muslim terrorist, YOU DID!"

"Average American = Good Christian, Their "President" = Muslim Terrorist".

[BedellBrave]

I suppose you then just see what you want to see...

[The Chosen One]

I suppose you then just see what you want to see...

Not really. I don't look at bumper stickers when I'm driving. When I am walking in a parking lot to the store.... that's a different story.

Just seems like Anti-Obama folks here (in my town) are more outspoken than the Anti-Bush crowd was.

[The Chosen One]

I can't get away from political talk even if I tried.

Last week I went out for some drinks with friends, and some drunk jokingly asked the bartender "Dang Boss, $8 for a shot? That's kinda extreme" and the bartender replied "Go complain to your homeboy Obama".

I work at a country club, so of course 95% of the demographic here are conservative leaning, so even when they go in passing they make a comment.

[BedellBrave]

Just depends on where you live Sav. If you live in a really Red area then sure. And just realize you are going to be more sensitive and see this stuff when it is aimed at your guy and that you'll be less inclined to see it when it is/was aimed at the guy you didn't like. That's just human nature.

[BedellBrave]

I can't get away from political talk even if I tried.

Last week I went out for some drinks with friends, and some drunk jokingly asked the bartender "Dang Boss, $8 for a shot? That's kinda extreme" and the bartender replied "Go complain to your homeboy Obama".

I work at a country club, so of course 95% of the demographic here are conservative leaning, so even when they go in passing they make a comment.


Oh, and it will only get worse. Part of the curse of the second term. More material to criticize and more time to get sick of who ever is on the throne.

[The Chosen One]

I grew up on the internet, and Bush is certainly the introductory internet President.

Clinton was President during the days of AOL, but Bush was President when the days of high speed broadband started to rise. Obama is probably the first social media President.

As far as I remember, the worst of hte Anti-Bush stuff was he was a stupid redneck cowboy, he didn't have a brain, the pictures comparing him with a caged monkey and yes the occasional swastika stuff. Although, I think most liberals hated Cheney more than Bush, it's just Bush was face and Cheney was the puppeteer.

I've seen much much much worse stuff with Obama in office.

[bravesnumberone]

I grew up on the internet, and Bush is certainly the introductory internet President.

Clinton was President during the days of AOL, but Bush was President when the days of high speed broadband started to rise. Obama is probably the first social media President.

As far as I remember, the worst of hte Anti-Bush stuff was he was a stupid redneck cowboy, he didn't have a brain, the pictures comparing him with a caged monkey and yes the occasional swastika stuff. Although, I think most liberals hated Cheney more than Bush, it's just Bush was face and Cheney was the puppeteer.

I've seen much much much worse stuff with Obama in office.

It's going to get worse with every president. Don't care for Obama, but agree that he's had even worse things said about him than Bush, who was attacked often.

[BedellBrave]

Well posters of a decapitated Bush are pretty bad. Not sure how much worse they get than that. That said, I think your point about the progression of technology hastening the nasty, vile, and ugly, is a good one. It will get worse (unless a heavier Statist hand is played - which you probably wouldn't want either). Just imagine how things will be should a R get back into the Oval Office.

[bravesnumberone]

Well posters of a decapitated Bush are pretty bad. Not sure how much worse they get than that. That said, I think your point about the progression of technology hastening the nasty, vile, and ugly, is a good one. It will get worse (unless a heavier Statist hand is played - which you probably wouldn't want either). Just imagine how things will be should a R get back into the Oval Office.

He'll want to eat poor people's children and enslave women according to some.

[The Chosen One]

Well posters of a decapitated Bush are pretty bad. Not sure how much worse they get than that. That said, I think your point about the progression of technology hastening the nasty, vile, and ugly, is a good one. It will get worse (unless a heavier Statist hand is played - which you probably wouldn't want either). Just imagine how things will be should a R get back into the Oval Office.

Call my crazy, but I don't recall anybody on MSNBC ever openly saying Bush was the modern day Adolf Hitler and the second coming of the Third Reich.

Not even a year into Obama's Presidency and the Hitler comparisons to Nazi Germany and the government authoritarian takeover were pretty commonplace not just amongst popular conservative social media, but Fox News and major right-winged blogs online.

What's worse than people having posters of a decapitated Bush? Reading people on social media say they'd shoot President Obama if he ever came to their city, to save their country, or people who say they'd just kill him ebcause they think they're patriots.

[bravesnumberone]

There was the whole orchestrating 9/11 thing, but yeah...extremes on every side.

[sturg33]

To be fair, Obama did sign the 2011 NDAA

[57Brave]

had forgotten this:: more things change the more they stay the same

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6d929ffd4811531500bc8d7276d6ca8d/tumblr_mwh8j6Ts2p1qz6f9yo1_1280.jpg

[50PoundHead]

Yeah, it's The Nation, but Rick Perlstein's article is pretty interesting whether or not you agree with it.

Nation Link: http://www.thenation.com/article/177018/grand-old-tea-party

Perlstein's Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus is a tremendous, even-handed book. I highly recommend it.

PS--Remember that Kennedy was Catholic and was going to take his orders directly from the Pope! I don't see that listed.