Fredi nominated for Manager of the Year Finalist

[Heyward]

Along with Hurdle and Mattingley.

But Fredi sucks, he needs to fired, AHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I think Hurdle wins it.

[Gary82]

Hurdle
Mattingly
Gonzalez

Good managers?

[Dalyn]

Hurdle for sure. Fredi and Mattingly not so much.

[Teheran_49]

Just because you win an award doesn't mean much. How many gold gloves did Derek Jeter win? Fredi isn't a terrible manager and yes I wanted his head when I was listening to the game and talking to my buddy and I tell him "Damn all Fredi has to do is put Kimbrel in and we will take this back to ATL." My Buddy-"Dude, he's bringing Carpenter in and has him in the BP". Me-"Are you f'ing kidding me, this is our season on the line how dumb is this MF'er, watch I bet we lose this F'ing game and if we do I want his a@# fired...watch what I tell you. Carpenter is going to blow this". That's exactly how that conversation went and I'm not even exaggerating.

What I've noticed on this board is how many think the grass is always greener on the other side and it's routine around here. I mean it's just crazy how much Braves players are under appreciated on this board and I'm not talking about Fredi but the team in general.

[sturg33]

This is simply a joke

[Bdawg2309]

here comes the :pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:: pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::p ound::pound:






glad fernandez was a finalist for CY young

[CrimsonCowboy]

Hurdle will win it, but good for Fredi nonetheless

[gtcway]

LOL, I can picture some of you guy's heads exploding when reading that:tchop:

[Teheran_49]

Also, Freeman got left out of the top 3 for NL MVP. Goldschmidt, McCutchen and Molina. Molina being in that group is an absolute joke. Our line up had two a bunch of inconsistent play and two of the worst offensive production from two regulars maybe ever and yet he still had 100+ RBI's. What a joke.

[Runnin]

Freddie Freeman, Teheran and Kimbrel were surely also in the conversations. Good to see our deserving players and manager getting some recognition.

[AerchAngel]

LOL, I can picture some of you guy's heads exploding when reading that:tchop:


Palmeiro won a gold glove while only playing 1b for like 6 games all year, so you saying?

[Gary82]

Also, Freeman got left out of the top 3 for NL MVP. Goldschmidt, McCutchen and Molina. Molina being in that group is an absolute joke. Our line up had two a bunch of inconsistent play and two of the worst offensive production from two regulars maybe ever and yet he still had 100+ RBI's. What a joke.

Nah, not really. I can see Molina over Freeman.

[yeezus]

Along with Hurdle and Mattingley.

But Fredi sucks, he needs to fired, AHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I think Hurdle wins it.

You yourself said Mattingly isn't good. So, what's this mean? Absolutely nothing.

[Heyward]

You yourself said Mattingly isn't good. So, what's this mean? Absolutely nothing.

Never said that, but he made an insanely dumb decision that might of cost them the series.

[ChapelHillMatt]

People are going out of their way to try and prove they are right about Fredi instead of simply congratulating him on doing a good job with this team. Simply amazing! Everyone knew he was going to be a candidate for this award. It might not mean much but what it does mean is the man did a very good job managing this team and isn't nearly as bad as people on this board want him to be. Manage of the year candidates don't get fired. Sorry to disappoint everyone but Fredi will be here for a very long time.

[Dalyn]

People are going out of their way to try and prove they are right about Fredi instead of simply congratulating him on doing a good job with this team. Simply amazing! Everyone knew he was going to be a candidate for this award. It might not mean much but what it does mean is the man did a very good job managing this team and isn't nearly as bad as people on this board want him to be. Manage of the year candidates don't get fired. Sorry to disappoint everyone but Fredi will be here for a very long time.

Don't get fired? Tell that to Mattingly. To Baker (who was one of the finalists). And several others throughout the years. I doubt very seriously that Fredi will be with the Braves in 2015.

[BremanFan88]

Sorry to disappoint everyone but Fredi will be here for a very long time.

And how exactly is that a good thing? You're pretty much saying we should all get used to seeing the Braves get out managed by the majority of the managers in baseball. Awesome...

[Heyward]

And how exactly is that a good thing? You're pretty much saying we should all get used to seeing the Braves get out managed by the majority of the managers in baseball. Awesome...

We're top 5 in wins or somewhere near that in baseball since he's become manager.

So he must be doing something right.

[Gary82]

Manage of the year candidates don't get fired.

Joe Girardi


But yeah, usually they don't.

[ChapelHillMatt]

We're top 5 in wins or somewhere near that in baseball since he's become manager.

So he must be doing something right.

Wins don't matter apparently.

There is no way he's fired after next year imo. If we didn't fire Bobby, why would we fire Fredi? They are very similar.

[NYCBrave]

And how exactly is that a good thing? You're pretty much saying we should all get used to seeing the Braves get out managed by the majority of the managers in baseball. Awesome...

Name all of the managers who are better than Fredi, and give specific examples of what they do that's better. I'm betting you can't.

[thethe]

This is like Derek Jeter winning a gold glove. He isn't the worst fielder in baseball but nowhere near the best.

[Dalyn]

Wins don't matter apparently.

There is no way he's fired after next year imo. If we didn't fire Bobby, why would we fire Fredi? They are very similar.

They are similar in the same way -

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SpeWCR0NjBU/UC6VnIA5FFI/AAAAAAAAGfI/CjL9oWfJIgo/s1600/The+Rover.jpg

is similar to -

http://www.tasteofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/the-lord-of-the-rings-books.jpg

[Runnin]

Perhaps we should be specific and list things Fredi did this year, the good and the bad.

The Good

1. He was flexible with the lineup, moving Simmons out of the top spot when it was clear he couldn't handle it, and then trying others, finally going with Heyward, a somewhat unlikely choice given his size and potential for rbis.

2. He protected the bullpen, especially Kimbrel and didn't overuse him.

3. Bullpen management in general a huge win for both him and Roger.

4. He never panicked while we were going through our offensive woes and let the team play itself out of them and onto 96 wins.

5. No dead strippers in his room or drunk interviews. Kudos.

6. No domestic violence issues.

7. No unnecessary drama with the press, with teammates, or among teammates. This is probably the hardest thing of all.

8. He got Gattis plenty of playing time.

9. Uggla and BJ spent a lot of time on the bench.

The Bad

Nothing sticks out to me but I'm less critical that others. I blame the Uribe HR on McCann and Carpenter. Too many breaking balls.

[Dalyn]

1. Is not true. It took him forever to make the right, OBVIOUS move at the top, and the team and certain players suffered for it.

2. In the end, he protected Kimbrel too much.

3. Better than years before, but we will be lucky if Avilan survives his bullpen management.

4. True.

5. True.

6. True.

7. Not true at all. We had a coach fight with a player and had a player trash Fredi's managing to the press.

8. By necessity.

9. That is a con. We ended up with EJ in the playoffs, and now BJ still has a problem going into another year, instead of working it out in September.

The Bad - Just the fact that you say this proves you guys have no perspective.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Shouldn't #9 be a knock on Wren as much if not moreso than Fredi?

But we have no perspective?

Bottom line is the team has gotten better each year under his leadership....that's a positive.

[Dalyn]

Shouldn't #9 be a knock on Wren as much if not moreso than Fredi?

But we have no perspective?

Bottom line is the team has gotten better each year under his leadership....that's a positive.

Yes. Wren deserves a lot of the blame, and I've mentioned that before. I also acknowledge that Fredi likely does a lot right behind the scenes. Maybe even everything right behind the scenes. But he is a **** in-game manager. He just is.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Yes. Wren deserves a lot of the blame, and I've mentioned that before. I also acknowledge that Fredi likely does a lot right behind the scenes. Maybe even everything right behind the scenes. But he is a **** in-game manager. He just is.

And that's why him and Bobby Cox are very similar. Although I don't think Fredi (nor Bobby) are nearly as bad as people want to believe. It's just not their strength.

[CyYoung31]

It's nearly no manager's strength.

[Dalyn]

And that's why him and Bobby Cox are very similar. Although I don't think Fredi (nor Bobby) are nearly as bad as people want to believe. It's just not their strength.

I disagree about Bobby being a bad in-game manager, but that doesn't really matter now. We are stuck with Fredi for another year. I have a feeling we might see Snitker in 2015.

[Dalyn]

It's nearly no manager's strength.

The good ones stay out of the way as much as possible and put players in the best spot to shine. Bobby did that better than just about anyone. Fredi is terrible at it.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I disagree about Bobby being a bad in-game manager, but that doesn't really matter now. We are stuck with Fredi for another year. I have a feeling we might see Snitker in 2015.

Yeah we are stuck with a manager that led his team to a division title in his 3rd year. Woe is us!!!!

Bobby was not a good in game manager either, the only reason you think he was is because he's Bobby Cox and has the legendary status. If he didn't have that you would be just as critical of him as you are Fredi. I can't tell you how many times he frustrated me with his decisions. He was especially bad at leaving a pitcher in too long. He also used the sacrifice bunt and played for one run (something people hate Fredi for). They manage games a lot alike.

Neither one of them have been very good in the postseason. If you think Bobby would have used Kimbrel for 2 innings I would have to say you would be wrong. He wouldn't have managed the postseason any differently than Fredi did. Both of them manage the postseason the same way they do the regular season and that's to show patience and trust their players to perform like they did the previous 6 months. Neither one of them show a sense of urgency.

[CyYoung31]

The good ones stay out of the way as much as possible and put players in the best spot to shine. Bobby did that better than just about anyone. Fredi is terrible at it.

Disagree. They're the same, more or less.

[Dalyn]

If you think Bobby would have used Kimbrel for 2 innings I would have to say you would be wrong.

Bobby used Kimbrel for two innings in the playoffs in 2010. A very good two innings, by the way.

[Dalyn]

Disagree. They're the same, more or less.

Disagree.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Bobby used Kimbrel for two innings in the playoffs in 2010. A very good two innings, by the way.

Not as the closer.

[Hawk]

Is anybody else annoyed by the fact that Fredi is passive as ****? It seems like Bobby was always screaming at the umps from the dugout or waddling out onto the field at the drop of a hat in defense of his players. Fredi runs out, asks the umpire a question, universally seems happy with the answer, and is right back in the dugout. It takes a lot for him to get tossed.

Fredi doesn't need to be a Larry Bowa / Lou Pinella, but some more fire would be nice for me.

That being said, I think he is generally an OK in-game strategist (better than Cox, IMO.)

[Dalyn]

You guys already admitted that Fredi was a bad in-game manager, so I am good. Bobby's career speaks for itself.

[ChapelHillMatt]

You guys already admitted that Fredi was a bad in-game manager, so I am good. Bobby's career speaks for itself.

I wouldn't say he's bad but I'll admit he's not a great in game strategist. Difference between you and me is I don't think that makes him a bad manager. There is more to managing than filling out lineup cards and making in game decisions. It's a small part of the job.

Your argument has been he's a bad manager and deserves to be fired. That's where we are disagreeing. Nobody is making the argument that he's perfect and has no weaknesses.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Is anybody else annoyed by the fact that Fredi is passive as ****? It seems like Bobby was always screaming at the umps from the dugout or waddling out onto the field at the drop of a hat in defense of his players. Fredi runs out, asks the umpire a question, universally seems happy with the answer, and is right back in the dugout. It takes a lot for him to get tossed.

Fredi doesn't need to be a Larry Bowa / Lou Pinella, but some more fire would be nice for me.

That being said, I think he is generally an OK in-game strategist (better than Cox, IMO.)

Doesn't really bother me, not everyone has the same personality. Bobby was unique in that regard, much like Earl Weaver was.

[Dalyn]

I wouldn't say he's bad but I'll admit he's not a great in game strategist. Difference between you and me is I don't think that makes him a bad manager. There is more to managing than filling out lineup cards and making in game decisions. It's a small part of the job.

Your argument has been he's a bad manager and deserves to be fired. That's where we are disagreeing. Nobody is making the argument that he's perfect and has no weaknesses.

I've allowed that he could be a good manager behind the scenes. None of us really know. What we do know is that there HAS been much more public turmoil than at any point under Bobby. That's not a good sign.

[Dalyn]

And, for clarification, I have ALWAYS said he is a bad in-game manager. I have never left that off.

[CyYoung31]

You guys already admitted that Fredi was a bad in-game manager, so I am good. Bobby's career speaks for itself.

On that note, why don't you let Fredi's career play out.

[Dalyn]

On that note, why don't you let Fredi's career play out.

:fredi:

[Heyward]

I disagree about Bobby being a bad in-game manager, but that doesn't really matter now. We are stuck with Fredi for another year. I have a feeling we might see Snitker in 2015.

I could see McDowell as manager maybe if next year doesnt go well.

I doubt Snitker is manager lol.

[Runnin]

1. Is not true. It took him forever to make the right, OBVIOUS move at the top, and the team and certain players suffered for it.

2. In the end, he protected Kimbrel too much.

7. Not true at all. We had a coach fight with a player and had a player trash Fredi's managing to the press.

1. He was way more flexible than Bobby would've been. How many leadoff hitters did we have this year? Heyward leading off isn't obvious, and far from ideal, but was just the best option.

2. Disagree. Let's say he pitches Kimbrel 2 innings and we win. After a day off we're back in Atlanta and in the same situation, leading by a run in the 8th. Do you pitch Kimbrel 2 innings again? If he does he's suddenly putting a lot of stress on golden boy's arm - You know Kimbrel is gonna try and throw 100mph in both innings. He's also telling Carpenter he doesn't deserve to be the set up man, which Carpenter excelled at all year. If he doesn't it's the same criticism all over again. He protected both Carpenter and Kimbrel by using them the way he had all year.

Probably he should've brought Kimbrel in after Puig got on base. Not that big of a deal.

7. Boys will be boys. He promptly put out the fire and the drama disappeared in a day.

I believe I do have perspective. It's irrational and naive to think the manager should be able to help us beat superior teams. Even with our record we were no better than the 3rd best team in the NL in October.

I believe most teams and players prefer a conservative (aka consistent), or even somewhat stubborn manager. At least they will know what to expect out of him day in and day out.

[Runnin]

And, for clarification, I have ALWAYS said he is a bad in-game manager. I have never left that off.
You'd be saying the same thing about John Farrell if you were a Red Sox fan.

[Dalyn]

You'd be saying the same thing about John Farrell if you were a Red Sox fan.

Nope. I am an Oakland fan, too, and I like Melvin.

[Braves82]

I know Fredi is not going to win, but I hope he does just to piss everybody off:cooter:

[gtcway]

I think most would agree that Fredi isn't a super great manager, but you guys are in for a big let down if you think he's not going to be managing the Braves for the next decade.
Managers don't get fired when they are slightly better than average to good, possible great. They get fired when the team sucks or when they don't get along with upper management.

[Nerfherders]

Fredi is by far the least of our worries. In the end, managers are judged by wins, and he gets alot of them.

[NYCBrave]

And, for clarification, I have ALWAYS said he is a bad in-game manager. I have never left that off.

So tell me the managers around the league that are great in game managers and please provide examples of what makes them so special.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I think most would agree that Fredi isn't a super great manager, but you guys are in for a big let down if you think he's not going to be managing the Braves for the next decade.
Managers don't get fired when they are slightly better than average to good, possible great. They get fired when the team sucks or when they don't get along with upper management.

Agreed.

And we aren't an organization that believes in changing managers every couple of years. We have always looked for stability so unless something drastic is needed there is no way he gets fired.

[sturg33]

Fredi's in-game managing cost us our season, in my opinion.

From starting Garcia to not using Kimbrel. Just awful.

[sturg33]

"You can't use your closer in a tie game on the road"

That should get anyone fired.

[Dalyn]

I know Fredi is not going to win, but I hope he does just to piss everybody off:cooter:


It would be hilarious.

[ChapelHillMatt]

So tell me the managers around the league that are great in game managers and please provide examples of what makes them so special.

Still waiting for someone to accept your challenge.

[ChapelHillMatt]

"You can't use your closer in a tie game on the road"

That should get anyone fired.

How many managers use their closers in a tie game on the road? Every game I've watched managers save their closers for save situations on the road and only use them in tie games if they are at home.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Fredi's in-game managing cost us our season, in my opinion.

From starting Garcia to not using Kimbrel. Just awful.

Medlen and Teheran's ineffectiveness had nothing to do with it I suppose?

[Dalyn]

Medlen and Teheran's ineffectiveness had nothing to do with it I suppose?

Teheran was mishandled from the start. That is on Wren and Fredi. And his start in the playoffs was BADLY managed. Just horrible. Medlen failed. He spoke up for himself and his teammates and was handed the reins (for himself). He responded by becoming our best pitcher for the rest of the year. But in the end he just had a bad game.

[Heyward]

Fredi's in-game managing cost us our season, in my opinion.

From starting Garcia to not using Kimbrel. Just awful.

Garcia went toe to toe with the best pitcher in baseball.

6 innings, 2 runs vs LA.

Not sure what more you could ask for.

Garcia wasnt why we lost.

[Heyward]

So tell me the managers around the league that are great in game managers and please provide examples of what makes them so special.

Dalyn, sturg, thethe.

Anyone wanna explain or yall making up **** again?

[Dalyn]

Dalyn, sturg, thethe.

Anyone wanna explain or yall making up **** again?

Oh, please, no one is going to waste time with that. I watch nearly as many Oakland games as I watch Braves games, and, let me tell you, it is a completely different experience.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Oh, please, no one is going to waste time with that. I watch nearly as many Oakland games as I watch Braves games, and, let me tell you, it is a completely different experience.

Compelling argument you make there.

In other words you can't give specific examples as to what a good in game manager does vs what a bad one does.

[Dalyn]

Compelling argument you make there.

In other words you can't give specific examples as to what a good in game manager does vs what a bad one does.

I can. I have. All of us have. I am just not going to waste time citing a bunch of specific instances only to have you guys completely disregard all of them like most of you do. Feel free to do it yourself.

[Dalyn]

I am curious. How many of you watch other teams play (on a regular basis)? I watch 150+ Braves games/year--like most of you, I am sure--but I also watch Oakland play 120 or so times/year, along with a handful of random games.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I am curious. How many of you watch other teams play (on a regular basis)? I watch 150+ Braves games/year--like most of you, I am sure--but I also watch Oakland play 120 or so times/year, along with a handful of random games.

I have 2 jobs, doesn't leave much free time to watch other teams play.

I just don't believe you have the perspective you hope you have. You just blamed Teheran's performance on Fredi and Wren and none of it on the player that actually had an outcome on the game. Everything that goes wrong is the managers fault. My guess is there will be no pleasing you as long as he's our manager. No matter how many games we win it'll never be good enough.

[Dalyn]

I have 2 jobs, doesn't leave much free time to watch other teams play.

I just don't believe you have the perspective you hope you have. You just blamed Teheran's performance on Fredi and Wren and none of it on the player that actually had an outcome on the game. Everything that goes wrong is the managers fault. My guess is there will be no pleasing you as long as he's our manager. No matter how many games we win it'll never be good enough.

Teheran obviously has plenty of the blame. That goes without saying. But you can't discount the fact that he was pushed far beyond his limit and then had sporadic playing time in September trying to make up for it. The result was a tired, rusty Teheran in the playoffs. No surprise there.

[Dalyn]

I have 2 jobs, doesn't leave much free time to watch other teams play.

I just don't believe you have the perspective you hope you have. You just blamed Teheran's performance on Fredi and Wren and none of it on the player that actually had an outcome on the game. Everything that goes wrong is the managers fault. My guess is there will be no pleasing you as long as he's our manager. No matter how many games we win it'll never be good enough.

I work from home, so I have the advantage of watching more games. It is nice. My friend is a huge Oakland fan, so...

[sturg33]

Whether other managers suck to is not my concern. All I know is Fredi sucks

1. He bunts way too often - often times with our best hitters
2. He doesn't know what a defensive shift is
3. For a great majority of the season, he was batting our worst OBP players in the leadoff spot (Simmons, Upton, Schafer)
4. He manages to saves, rather than to wins
5. He start Freddy Garcia in an elimination game against the best starting pitcher in baseball
6. He leaves the best pitcher in baseball on the bench in an elimination game bc it wasn't a save opportunity yet - and it never became one by the way
7. He pitches injured relievers like Walden for 2 innings, but not healthy pitchers like Kimbrel
8. He leaves Dan Uggla (a legitimate on base threat and power threat) OFF the playoff roster in favor of... Elliot Johnson
9. He benched Jason Heyward in favor of... Jose Constanza
10. He publicly said in the media that he would prefer some Phillies players over some of his own.

[sturg33]

How many managers use their closers in a tie game on the road? Every game I've watched managers save their closers for save situations on the road and only use them in tie games if they are at home.

I don't care how many managers do or don't. The fact that they don't, makes them stupid. Fredi falls in this category

[sturg33]

Medlen and Teheran's ineffectiveness had nothing to do with it I suppose?

By that logic Jose Constanza shoulda started over Heyward bc Heyward had a bad game

[Dalyn]

I have 2 jobs, doesn't leave much free time to watch other teams play.

I just don't believe you have the perspective you hope you have. You just blamed Teheran's performance on Fredi and Wren and none of it on the player that actually had an outcome on the game. Everything that goes wrong is the managers fault. My guess is there will be no pleasing you as long as he's our manager. No matter how many games we win it'll never be good enough.

No one is blaming everything that goes wrong on the manager. That is an exaggeration. And I was fine with Fredi when he first came here...before I had a chance to watch him on a regular basis. There is always some asinine obsession with him. First it was bunts. Then it was Schafer leading off. Then it was Simmons leading off. Then it was pulling pitchers as soon as someone got on base after the fifth inning. Then it was Gattis anchoring the lineup. It is always something. You don't see that with many managers, at least not the ones who stick around with one team long. And that is completely disregarding his otherwise bad in-game managing.

[sturg33]

Garcia went toe to toe with the best pitcher in baseball.

6 innings, 2 runs vs LA.

Not sure what more you could ask for.

Garcia wasnt why we lost.

1. Gracia was getting hit HARD

2. Garcia gave up two home runs to Carl freaking Crawford

3. For all I know - Medlen shuts them down and we win easily

[ChapelHillMatt]

I don't care how many managers do or don't. The fact that they don't, makes them stupid. Fredi falls in this category

Well you would be firing every manager if you go by your logic. No manager in baseball does what you want them to do, not even Hall of Famers. Maybe you should put in your application.

[Heyward]

Oh, please, no one is going to waste time with that. I watch nearly as many Oakland games as I watch Braves games, and, let me tell you, it is a completely different experience.

So you cant give an argument then.

Just be quiet then.

[ChapelHillMatt]

By that logic Jose Constanza shoulda started over Heyward bc Heyward had a bad game

You said Fredi cost us our season with his in game decisions. I'm merely pointing out that it's up to the players to perform and our guys didn't. It's really as simple as that.

[Dalyn]

You guys always respond with snark and demand examples. What happens when someone supplies them? You disregard them and respond with snark and demand examples. :elefant:

[Heyward]

Whether other managers suck to is not my concern. All I know is Fredi sucks

1. He bunts way too often - often times with our best hitters
2. He doesn't know what a defensive shift is
3. For a great majority of the season, he was batting our worst OBP players in the leadoff spot (Simmons, Upton, Schafer)
4. He manages to saves, rather than to wins
5. He start Freddy Garcia in an elimination game against the best starting pitcher in baseball
6. He leaves the best pitcher in baseball on the bench in an elimination game bc it wasn't a save opportunity yet - and it never became one by the way
7. He pitches injured relievers like Walden for 2 innings, but not healthy pitchers like Kimbrel
8. He leaves Dan Uggla (a legitimate on base threat and power threat) OFF the playoff roster in favor of... Elliot Johnson
9. He benched Jason Heyward in favor of... Jose Constanza
10. He publicly said in the media that he would prefer some Phillies players over some of his own.

Fair points, but....

Garcia went 6 innings, and gave up 2 runs, tell me who would of done better than that?

Garcia pitched well surprisingly.

[Dalyn]

So you cant give an argument then.

Just be quiet then.

What argument have you supplied? You disregard the millions of examples people give, and then you Heyward the discussion.

[Heyward]

1. Gracia was getting hit HARD

2. Garcia gave up two home runs to Carl freaking Crawford

3. For all I know - Medlen shuts them down and we win easily

1- He gave up 2 runs.

2- Crawford is a pretty good player.

3- Medlen got ROCKED vs them, you have no idea if he pitches better than 0-1 run ball vs them.

4- Garcia wasnt the reason we lost, he pitched well.

[Heyward]

What argument have you supplied? You disregard the millions of examples people give, and then you Heyward the discussion.

I never said hes a great or horrible manager, i think hes inbetween.

Fact: every fanbase thinks their manager sucks, both the Cards and Red Sox did.

[ChapelHillMatt]

No one is blaming everything that goes wrong on the manager. That is an exaggeration. And I was fine with Fredi when he first came here...before I had a chance to watch him on a regular basis. There is always some asinine obsession with him. First it was bunts. Then it was Schafer leading off. Then it was Simmons leading off. Then it was pulling pitchers as soon as someone got on base after the fifth inning. Then it was Gattis anchoring the lineup. It is always something. You don't see that with many managers, at least not the ones who stick around with one team long. And that is completely disregarding his otherwise bad in-game managing.

I've yet to see you give him credit for anything other than "possibly being good behind the scenes"

Garcia is a move that ended up working. We would have had Medlen coming back on full rest and yet people are bashing him for that move as well. So it's gotten so bad that people are bashing him for moves that actually work.

As far as your list of complaints. I do think he bunts too much but it's not always a bad play....that's something you have to consider. Putting a man in scoring position isn't an awful situation to be in. We didn't have a ideal leadoff man so he experimented until he found one. Heyward wasn't an obvious choice. If we would have resigned Bourn he would have been put in the leadoff spot from day one. This offense struggled to find consistency so he was forced to play musical chairs and put people in position to be successful. Gattis had stretches where he carried the team. Nothing wrong with him anchoring the lineup for short stretches. If our high paid players were consistent he wouldn't have had to do it.

[Dalyn]

I never said hes a great or horrible manager, i think hes inbetween.

Fact: every fanbase thinks their manager sucks, both the Cards and Red Sox did.

That is not a fact.

[Heyward]

You said Fredi cost us our season with his in game decisions. I'm merely pointing out that it's up to the players to perform and our guys didn't. It's really as simple as that.

This is what it comes down too.

[Heyward]

That is not a fact.

Fact: Every fanbase bitches about their manager and thinks they can do better.

This is a pointless argument, Fredi can never win with you guys.

[yeezus]

Fact: Every fanbase bitches about their manager and thinks they can do better.

This is a pointless argument, Fredi can never win with you guys.

"fredi can never win with you guys."
"you guys blame fredi for everything."
the hyperbole does not help your argument. it's not that fredi "can never win" with me, i have just seen him make a lot of very questionable moves and decisions throughout the season and post-season. that's not to say every move he makes is bad, but there was a lot of stupid and "by the book" moves, even when "the book" is stupid itself.

i believe we win that game that carpenter lost if kimbrel is used instead. agree or disagree? fredi didn't ruin our whole season. he didn't single-handedly lose in the playoffs - we have ALL stated that there are plenty of reasons. but that doesn't mean he gets no blame.

see, i think fredi can do no wrong with you guys. there is very little objectivity. one person who defended him couldn't think of one bad thing he's done. really??? even the best at what they do make mistakes, but one supporter couldn't name ONE problem? come on.

[Heyward]

"fredi can never win with you guys."
"you guys blame fredi for everything."
the hyperbole does not help your argument. it's not that fredi "can never win" with me, i have just seen him make a lot of very questionable moves and decisions throughout the season and post-season. that's not to say every move he makes is bad, but there was a lot of stupid and "by the book" moves, even when "the book" is stupid itself.

i believe we win that game that carpenter lost if kimbrel is used instead. agree or disagree? fredi didn't ruin our whole season. he didn't single-handedly lose in the playoffs - we have ALL stated that there are plenty of reasons. but that doesn't mean he gets no blame.

see, i think fredi can do no wrong with you guys. there is very little objectivity. one person who defended him couldn't think of one bad thing he's done. really??? even the best at what they do make mistakes, but one supporter couldn't name ONE problem? come on.

Not sure we win that game if Carp doesnt pitch for one...

Puig is on 2nd, a passed ball, and flyball ties the game.

There were NO outs at the time.

I said before if they were gonna bring him in, use him for 2 innings.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Again why not put the blame where it belongs and that's at Carpenter's door step? I've yet to see anyone get on his case and accuse him of ruining our season. It's been all about Fredi for not using Kimbrel. Carpenter had been very successful as a setup man, why not trust him to do his job? What's the big deal? It's not like we had someone out there with a 5 ERA trying to bridge the gap. We had a very good pen and Fredi trusted it.

[yeezus]

I don't mean to keep exhausting that particular instance, but it seemed to me like a very obvious time to use your best guy for 2 innings. It was the absolute perfect time to do so.

1. One run lead
2. Two of the Dodger's hottest hitters coming to the plate
3. Carpenter got smacked for HR in the 8th just a few days prior
4. Off day the day before, Kimbrel not overused
5. Elimination game; if you win, you go home and have a favorable matchup
6. Kimbrel asked for the ball for 2 innings

Instead, we left our best reliever in the pen "because it wasn't a save situation" and never got an opportunity at a save because...our best guy was left in the pen. I'm sorry, it's really hard for me to get over that and look past it. It was a huge, huge mistake and did not give us our best chance to win the game.

In hindsight, it's impossible to defend the decision not to use CK. Even before it happened, it was pretty damn hard to defend the decision to not bring him in there. These situations are not black and white. You shouldn't manage as if this was just another routine, regular season 8th inning. It was a huge moment, and I promise you Puig and Uribe were thankful we did not decide to bring him in.

The fact that some here will still defend that decision baffles me. The fact that Fredi defended it afterward and didn't admit his mistake is what really sucks, though. If he had come out and said "Yeah, Kimbrel should have been the move," I wouldn't be as upset, or at least give him credit for recognizing his mistake. Considering he felt it was the right move still, even after seeing the results, tells me he's stubborn to the point of stupid, and that sucks.

[yeezus]

Again why not put the blame where it belongs and that's at Carpenter's door step? I've yet to see anyone get on his case and accuse him of ruining our season. It's been all about Fredi for not using Kimbrel. Carpenter had been very successful as a setup man, why not trust him to do his job? What's the big deal? It's not like we had someone out there with a 5 ERA trying to bridge the gap. We had a very good pen and Fredi trusted it.

JUST BECAUSE CARPENTER DIDN'T DO HIS JOB, DOESN'T MEAN THAT FREDI WAS RIGHT IN BRINGING HIM IN.
Yes, Carp did fail us. No one will say otherwise. He also almost failed us and coughed up the lead just a few nights before. An excellent argument AGAINST using him in that spot.

We left our best pitcher on the bench to let Carpenter blow the lead. That doesn't sit well with me.

[CyYoung31]

I don't mean to keep exhausting that particular instance, but it seemed to me like a very obvious time to use your best guy for 2 innings. It was the absolute perfect time to do so.

1. One run lead
2. Two of the Dodger's hottest hitters coming to the plate
3. Carpenter got smacked for HR in the 8th just a few days prior
4. Off day the day before, Kimbrel not overused
5. Elimination game; if you win, you go home and have a favorable matchup
6. Kimbrel asked for the ball for 2 innings

Instead, we left our best reliever in the pen "because it wasn't a save situation" and never got an opportunity at a save because...our best guy was left in the pen. I'm sorry, it's really hard for me to get over that and look past it. It was a huge, huge mistake and did not give us our best chance to win the game.

In hindsight, it's impossible to defend the decision not to use CK. Even before it happened, it was pretty damn hard to defend the decision to not bring him in there. These situations are not black and white. You shouldn't manage as if this was just another routine, regular season 8th inning. It was a huge moment, and I promise you Puig and Uribe were thankful we did not decide to bring him in.

The fact that some here will still defend that decision baffles me. The fact that Fredi defended it afterward and didn't admit his mistake is what really sucks, though. If he had come out and said "Yeah, Kimbrel should have been the move," I wouldn't be as upset, or at least give him credit for recognizing his mistake. Considering he felt it was the right move still, even after seeing the results, tells me he's stubborn to the point of stupid, and that sucks.

Or he wasn't just going to hose is own player (Carpenter) in front of the media.

[Heyward]

I don't mean to keep exhausting that particular instance, but it seemed to me like a very obvious time to use your best guy for 2 innings. It was the absolute perfect time to do so.

1. One run lead
2. Two of the Dodger's hottest hitters coming to the plate
3. Carpenter got smacked for HR in the 8th just a few days prior
4. Off day the day before, Kimbrel not overused
5. Elimination game; if you win, you go home and have a favorable matchup
6. Kimbrel asked for the ball for 2 innings

Instead, we left our best reliever in the pen "because it wasn't a save situation" and never got an opportunity at a save because...our best guy was left in the pen. I'm sorry, it's really hard for me to get over that and look past it. It was a huge, huge mistake and did not give us our best chance to win the game.

In hindsight, it's impossible to defend the decision not to use CK. Even before it happened, it was pretty damn hard to defend the decision to not bring him in there. These situations are not black and white. You shouldn't manage as if this was just another routine, regular season 8th inning. It was a huge moment, and I promise you Puig and Uribe were thankful we did not decide to bring him in.

The fact that some here will still defend that decision baffles me. The fact that Fredi defended it afterward and didn't admit his mistake is what really sucks, though. If he had come out and said "Yeah, Kimbrel should have been the move," I wouldn't be as upset, or at least give him credit for recognizing his mistake. Considering he felt it was the right move still, even after seeing the results, tells me he's stubborn to the point of stupid, and that sucks.

To be fair, Hanley barely hit the HR out in the 8th, he didnt smack it out.

Was actually a good pitch.

[zitothebrave]

If Hurdle doesn't win NL MOY I'll lol.

Put Showwalter on the Braves and see if they still get eliminated.

[VirginiaBrave]

Don't get fired? Tell that to Mattingly. To Baker (who was one of the finalists). And several others throughout the years. I doubt very seriously that Fredi will be with the Braves in 2015.

That's only because you want him gone, he will be on the Braves bench in 2015. You forget how bad an in-game manager Cox was. He is a leader and a great talent evaluator but he also rode his bullpen in the ground. Add to that he refused to use speed even when the team had a little. Give Freddi a chance and he will win a championship.

[Dalyn]

That's only because you want him gone, he will be on the Braves bench in 2015. You forget how bad an in-game manager Cox was. He is a leader and a great talent evaluator but he also rode his bullpen in the ground. Add to that he refused to use speed even when the team had a little. Give Freddi a chance and he will win a championship.

I am okay with him being a bench coach in 2015. Sounds good.

[bravesnumberone]

I am okay with him being a bench coach in 2015. Sounds good.

Let's not go wild here.

[Dalyn]

Let's not go wild here.


You're right. But I would accept it if it meant a new manager, you know? Fredi can spend the game having pleasant talks with the umpires and Constanza while staring at Gattis' ass.

[bravesnumberone]

You're right. But I would accept it if it meant a new manager, you know? Fredi can spend the game having pleasant talks with the umpires and Constanza while staring at Gattis' ass.

He'd also be there to taunt Avilan.

[Dalyn]

He'd also be there to taunt Avilan.


He would make him throw him stuff all day.

[Runnin]

Avilan had an amazing year, a career type year in only his 2nd season. With O'Flaherty and Venters going down we needed him to step up big time and he did. One of the real unsung heroes of the season.

He had a ton of appearances, more than double his previous high, but only pitched 65 innings. Originally a starter, he's pitched as many as 106 innings in a year.

[zitothebrave]

Avilan had an amazing year, a career type year in only his 2nd season. With O'Flaherty and Venters going down we needed him to step up big time and he did. One of the real unsung heroes of the season.

He had a ton of appearances, more than double his previous high, but only pitched 65 innings. Originally a starter, he's pitched as many as 106 innings in a year.

There's a difference between innings as a starter and a reliever. And the appearances are more important thaninnings for a reliever. It's more or less accepted truth that a reliever typically expends more energy/strain on their arm warming up than pitching as a 1 inning or less man. Avilan's issue was he was way over used because of injuries to Walden, EOF and Venters. Fredi needs someone to be his setup mule and after being a LOOGy most of the year that job fell to avilan.

[The Chosen One]

Sheesh.

I thought I already had a Fredi Rant thread a few weeks ago.

[jason27nc]

Again why not put the blame where it belongs and that's at Carpenter's door step? I've yet to see anyone get on his case and accuse him of ruining our season. It's been all about Fredi for not using Kimbrel. Carpenter had been very successful as a setup man, why not trust him to do his job? What's the big deal? It's not like we had someone out there with a 5 ERA trying to bridge the gap. We had a very good pen and Fredi trusted it.

Matt, I love you to death but you are giving Fredi way to much credit. I know you don't like putting any blame on him. However it is probably some where in between with him. He is a good manager but not a great manager. Kinda like I have said for 4 years about Murray at UGA. His a good QB that has set all kinds of records but he does not have that "IT" factor to win a National . Title. I do not think Fredi is as good as you think he is and not as bad as some on here think he is. I would love to get a guy in here that can win it all but that isn't going to happen. We are stuck with a manager that manages in the post season like he does in July. No sense of urgency, even in an elimination game and that is why he will never be that great manager. That is my beef with him.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Matt, I love you to death but you are giving Fredi way to much credit. I know you don't like putting any blame on him. However it is probably some where in between with him. He is a good manager but not a great manager. Kinda like I have said for 4 years about Murray at UGA. His a good QB that has set all kinds of records but he does not have that "IT" factor to win a National . Title. I do not think Fredi is as good as you think he is and not as bad as some on here think he is. I would love to get a guy in here that can win it all but that isn't going to happen. We are stuck with a manager that manages in the post season like he does in July. No sense of urgency, even in an elimination game and that is why he will never be that great manager. That is my beef with him.

Then Bobby Cox wasn't a great manager because he managed the exact same way. I don't think Fredi is a great manager but I do think he's a good one, if he wasn't then he wouldn't be successful. Bad managers don't win as much as he does, especially with a limited payroll.

[sturg33]

Then Bobby Cox wasn't a great manager because he managed the exact same way. I don't think Fredi is a great manager but I do think he's a good one, if he wasn't then he wouldn't be successful. Bad managers don't win as much as he does, especially with a limited payroll.

You do with the talent he was given. We won 96 in spite of

[The Chosen One]

Talent doesn't guarantee anything. All the talent we had during the streak didn't produce nothing more than 1 WS.

Mike Scioscia has had talent for years, arguably more talent than when he won it all and he's still managing.

Tigers were more talented than BoSox and look what happened there.

[Dalyn]

Last place for Fredi. No surprise. (http://news.yahoo.com/pirates-hurdle-wins-nl-manager-award-000246658--spt.html)

[GovClintonTyree]

Last place for Fredi. No surprise. (http://news.yahoo.com/pirates-hurdle-wins-nl-manager-award-000246658--spt.html)

Oh, good God.

[Dalyn]

Oh, good God.

:fredi:

[ChapelHillMatt]

Talent doesn't guarantee anything. All the talent we had during the streak didn't produce nothing more than 1 WS.

Mike Scioscia has had talent for years, arguably more talent than when he won it all and he's still managing.

Tigers were more talented than BoSox and look what happened there.

I don't even think we were that talented. We only had two players hit over 300, nobody with 30 or more homers, and no starter with an ERA under 3. Kimbrel had the most impressive year of anyone on our roster. We suffered through under performances from key players and lots of injuries. This idea that we won in spite of anyone is pure bunk! This was a total team effort. Nobody predicted us to win the division this year, this was a team that overachieved.