AA's Failure

[striker42]

Let's look at the scope of AA's offseason failure. It's actually quite impressive.

The OF:
We had an open OF spot giving us a real chance to improve the lineup. What does AA do? He brings back Duvall trying to explain it was health problems that caused his struggles and then re-signs Markakis. Instead of upgrading he literally brought back the same guys who are good bets to decline. Duvall was so putrid in spring he didn't even make the roster.

The Rotation:
You can blame some of this on injuries to Folty and Gaus but injuries is a big reason why you need another proven starter. We're going to be starting Kyle Wright in our third game of the season. A guy with a bright future but still in need of polish.

The Pen:
The bullpen got zero attention this offseason and it shows. Carle, Jackson, and Tomlin made the opening day roster. Over a third of our pen spots were won by guys who shouldn't be pitching on a major league roster. How can all those guys make our roster while not signing a single legitimate reliever? This might be the biggest failure of any GM in baseball this offseason.

The Bench:
AA being convinced Duvall was going to bounce back had us scrambling at the end of ST. Camargo going to the bench helps but there's no real power threat off the bench (even with Joyce hitting the HR today).



AA's failure this offseason was enormous. Not every hole on a roster needs a $20 million fix. The lack of getting role players that cost $2 to $5 million a piece has left us with a roster full of holes. Holes that have been made worse with injuries.

Honestly, if AA was fired tomorrow I wouldn't be upset. I realize he hasn't been at the job long but whiffing so many times this offseason is just embarrassing.

[nsacpi]

AA took the sort of approach (emphasis on getting value) that I've been advocating, so I can't really complain. Sam Freeman over Luke Jackson is the one decision that doesn't make sense to me. Joyce could turn out to be a good bench bat. A lefty bat actually makes sense on the bench to go along with Camargo (switch who hits better righty) and Culberson (righty). I presume Camargo showed well enough in the outfield to convince management that he should be the one who spells Inciarte and Markakis against lefties.

[Hudson2]

Not getting 1 bullpen arm is inexcusable imo. We needed to get at least 1 reliable arm and he failed period. At the end of last season nobody in baseball or this board would have guessed we had Markakis and Duvall both coming back but that disaster happened also. Instead of value I would have rather overpaid and got a legit hitter than went the path he did. He had A pretty bad offseason imo and more depends on Donaldsons health.

[Pacheaholic]

AA took the sort of approach (emphasis on getting value) that I've been advocating, so I can't really complain. Sam Freeman over Luke Jackson is the one decision that doesn't make sense to me. Joyce could turn out to be a good bench bat. A lefty bat actually makes sense on the bench to go along with Camargo (switch who hits better righty) and Culberson (righty). I presume Camargo showed well enough in the outfield to convince management that he should be the one who spells Inciarte and Markakis against lefties.

There is a huge difference between value and cheap. The Braves were super cheap and tried to make the excuse that they were looking for value.

[Jay212033]

This offseason was a complete failure! AA failed to address the teams biggest needs and he can give me all the excuses he wants but he completely whiffed!

[Enscheff]

The failure occurred at whatever point early in the off season when AA budgeted for replacements and severely miscalculated how much it would cost to upgrade cOF.

As soon as he splurged on JD and then couldn’t afford Brantley, the Braves went into scramble mode. That scramble resulted in them grabbing Markakis, and trying to add “a guy with a big salary” to make up for it. Holding back payroll for that big salary (probably Myers) forced the Braves to watch all the value BP arms get signed out from underneath them.

As a result, they ended up with no “big salary guy”, no BP additions, and a pretty bad situation in cOF....and a pocket full of cash.

All because they thought they could get someone like Brantley or Cutch for peanuts.

[nsacpi]

Not getting 1 bullpen arm is inexcusable imo. We needed to get at least 1 reliable arm and he failed period. At the end of last season nobody in baseball or this board would have guessed we had Markakis and Duvall both coming back but that disaster happened also. Instead of value I would have rather overpaid and got a legit hitter than went the path he did. He had A pretty bad offseason imo and more depends on Donaldsons health.

I kept banging the drum for Bud Norris. It was a bit of a joke, but I did think an extra bullpen arm would be a good idea. The pen ain't bad with Minter and O'Day. But you have to assume a certain amount of attrition.

Hopefully Parsons and/or Sobotka step forward and give us some good work this year. I'm guessing Jackson and Carle are the guys sent down when Minter and O'Day return. And let's not forget Winkler, who I like better than Jackson and Carle.

[bravesfanMatt]

I have made my position known about AA. But he couldn’t efficiently address everything listed. The starting pitching was fine. We have the depth to handle the injuries. We should have gotten on reliever at least and then to keep Luke over Sam was dumb. My biggest complaint is not upgrading the offense with at least one more impact bat. Could have been at catcher or outfield.

I also think he played the value game too tightly. He desired value over wins and hopefully it won’t hurt us too much this season. He also has a tricky off season next too. But with a worse FA class. I think his time was this year and he was too conservative or maybe just in over his head. I don’t know.

I still think we are a good club capable of making some noise. Just need things to go right with kids and neck/Mac being good.

[Hudson2]

I kept banging the drum for Bud Norris. It was a bit of a joke, but I did think an extra bullpen arm would be a good idea. The pen ain't bad with Minter and O'Day. But you have to assume a certain amount of attrition.

Hopefully Parsons and/or Sobotka step forward and give us some good work this year. I'm guessing Jackson and Carle are the guys sent down when Minter and O'Day return. And let's not forget Winkler, who I like better than Jackson and Carle.

I was cool with Norris too, heck anybody that would have helped would be a welcomed addition. But to not get just 1 guy was pretty bad. Bullpen arms were pretty cheap this offseason and that just pours even more salt in the wound.

[Julio3000]

I think AA is good, and the bullpen will be fine when things shake out a bit. It’s certainly fine to wonder why we didn’t pick up a cheap piece or two there, though.

My ire is reserved for ownership, who seems to have the fanbase on a constant bait-and-switch hook for when we’re going to be a top-third payroll.

[The Chosen One]

This team is FINNISH.

Thanks AA

[bravesfanforlife88]

It really is frustrating as a fan. This team has some really good pieces, that with the right veteran additions, could make a deep run.

AA failed to do so and I hope the fans questioning him get louder.

[JxnMissFan]

If the Braves win their next game will there be a thread started about AA’s successes?

[Southcack77]

I kept banging the drum for Bud Norris. It was a bit of a joke, but I did think an extra bullpen arm would be a good idea. The pen ain't bad with Minter and O'Day. But you have to assume a certain amount of attrition.

Hopefully Parsons and/or Sobotka step forward and give us some good work this year. I'm guessing Jackson and Carle are the guys sent down when Minter and O'Day return. And let's not forget Winkler, who I like better than Jackson and Carle.

Luke Jackson has done unclaimed about seventeen times. I have no idea why he keeps getting brought back.

Carle wasn’t terrible last year so don’t mind him in his current role which should be low leverage dude/gwinnett train, but injuries are playing some role there.

[Jay212033]

If the Braves win their next game will there be a thread started about AA’s successes?

But we won't cause we're getting swept!

[nsacpi]

Luke Jackson has done unclaimed about seventeen times. I have no idea why he keeps getting brought back.

Carle wasn’t terrible last year so don’t mind him in his current role which should be low leverage dude/gwinnett train, but injuries are playing some role there.

I agree Carle > Jackson

but he's still a sacrificial lamb type 8th guy whose main role is to protect the more valuable arms

oh and this

Sam Freeman > Carle

[striker42]

If the Braves win their next game will there be a thread started about AA’s successes?

Will winning tomorrow rewrite history, add a couple decent relievers to the pen, and get us an OF upgrade? If so, yes.

[thethe]

Do we ever see Luke Jackson when our relievers are healthy?

[salmagundy]

AA's failures are well documented with not filling holes big enough to drive a 747 thru. My main objection to AA is his use of many J&J products to cover his ineptitude. His consistent fall back on not having the $$$ available for the perceived market value of a player. Braves fans are smart and you can't continually feed them the same BS and have them believe it. "we were 70% close to a deal" doesn't fly, that dog don't hunt remarks like "we have the funds to do what we think is best for the team". Has AA misled the fans?? A hell yes and that's worse,IMO, than not doing what's needed to greatly improve the team.

[TheBravos]

Do we ever see Luke Jackson when our relievers are healthy?

Jackson and probably Carle will be DFA’d when O’day and Minter return.

There are not enough spots, so Gohora and one or two other guys like a Touki , Wilson, Fried will be in the pen. Those guys have better stuff than just about ANY of the guys we could have signed.

I’m sure AA might have signed someone else if he knew Minter, O’day, Gohora, Soroka, Folty, and Gausman would all be hurt to begin the season...what’s the chances.

We have pitching that teams would kill for. Most teams losing their #1 and #2 starters and two of our top three relievers would be a train wreck. Take away those four guys on the Phillies or the Nats and see how they would look?? Just give it a few weeks and you will not see Luke Jackson ever again.

[CJ9]

Reminder that they chose Luke Jackson over Winkler. The list of missteps is a long one, and it doesn’t end with who they did or didn’t acquire.

[TheBravos]

Reminder that they chose Luke Jackson over Winkler. The list of missteps is a long one, and it doesn’t end with who they did or didn’t acquire.

True. Who’s to say Winkler would have done any better though...didn’t have a good spring at all.

[tululush]

The failure occurred at whatever point early in the off season when AA budgeted for replacements and severely miscalculated how much it would cost to upgrade cOF.

As soon as he splurged on JD and then couldn’t afford Brantley, the Braves went into scramble mode. That scramble resulted in them grabbing Markakis, and trying to add “a guy with a big salary” to make up for it. Holding back payroll for that big salary (probably Myers) forced the Braves to watch all the value BP arms get signed out from underneath them.

As a result, they ended up with no “big salary guy”, no BP additions, and a pretty bad situation in cOF....and a pocket full of cash.

All because they thought they could get someone like Brantley or Cutch for peanuts.

And then what happens with all that cash? Kinda crappy that they dumped the cost of the new stadium and the Battery on to Cobb County residents via taxes, turn a profit, lie to us about re-investing it into the team, don’t, and then use that money to build more commercial real estate ventures in the Battery. Kind of a dick move to the fans, especially the fans in Cobb County. We ended up footing the bill for the stadium and the Battery and then our team reaps zero benefits from the profits earned from us spending money to support the team. That’s a real Florida Marlins move right there. Way to dick over the fans.

[CyYoung31]

And then what happens with all that cash? Kinda crappy that they dumped the cost of the new stadium and the Battery on to Cobb County residents via taxes, turn a profit, lie to us about re-investing it into the team, don’t, and then use that money to build more commercial real estate ventures in the Battery. Kind of a dick move to the fans, especially the fans in Cobb County. We ended up footing the bill for the stadium and the Battery and then our team reaps zero benefits from the profits earned from us spending money to support the team. That’s a real Florida Marlins move right there. Way to dick over the fans.

Many of us saw this coming from the moment the stadium was announced.

[striker42]

And then what happens with all that cash? Kinda crappy that they dumped the cost of the new stadium and the Battery on to Cobb County residents via taxes, turn a profit, lie to us about re-investing it into the team, don’t, and then use that money to build more commercial real estate ventures in the Battery. Kind of a dick move to the fans, especially the fans in Cobb County. We ended up footing the bill for the stadium and the Battery and then our team reaps zero benefits from the profits earned from us spending money to support the team. That’s a real Florida Marlins move right there. Way to dick over the fans.

There's a fair chance AA and other execs get bigger bonuses by keeping payroll lower and profits larger.

[tululush]

There's a fair chance AA and other execs get bigger bonuses by keeping payroll lower and profits larger.

I have no doubts. From ownership down to AA they all suck. And lie to us in the process. Damn shame the fans of Atlanta don’t rip them a new one like the New York and Boston fans would. If this continues and we fall flat on our face this season I truly hope they feel the heat from the media and fans and fans start to protest.

[IowaBrave14]

One game.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Can we change the name of the board to AA: the value braves?

[Horsehide Harry]

I essentially predicted this three years ago. The roots of this go all the way back to the "reload" BS from the Johns.

Instead of rebuilding and committing to a 5 year process of building, they rushed through to reach a lucky and unexpected NL East championship (with immediate drubbing out) in 2018. Now, AA has a team too good not to contend but not good enough to really contend and not enough money to fix the problem and prospect capital that, if spent to fix holes, shortens the window into another likely rebuild near term. It's baseball purgatory, just as I predicted.

[CyYoung31]

I essentially predicted this three years ago. The roots of this go all the way back to the "reload" BS from the Johns.

Instead of rebuilding and committing to a 5 year process of building, they rushed through to reach a lucky and unexpected NL East championship (with immediate drubbing out) in 2018. Now, AA has a team too good not to contend but not good enough to really contend and not enough money to fix the problem and prospect capital that, if spent to fix holes, shortens the window into another likely rebuild near term. It's baseball purgatory, just as I predicted.

Lol, wut.

1. They fully committed to the rebuild. They literally traded all of their Major League talent, minus two players for future assets. I know you have a hard on for trading Freeman, but as has been discussed ad nauseum here, it made sense to keep him and without him we aren’t winning the division last year and likely aren’t in a position to contend this year.

2. AA has nothing to do with what the previous regime did or didn’t do. He wasn’t planning on winning the division last year, nothing has been rushed since he came here. It’s pretty funny to see you claim that, yet everything AA has done during his tenure has been the complete opposite.

3. This team is set up to win 85-95 games for the foreseeable future.That’s not baseball purgatory. That’s called contending. Purgatory is what the Giants and Mets are doing right now. That means it was a successful rebuild, even if there were missteps along the way.

[Horsehide Harry]

Lol, wut.

1. They fully committed to the rebuild. They literally traded all of their Major League talent, minus two players for future assets. I know you have a hard on for trading Freeman, but as has been discussed ad nauseum here, it made sense to keep him and without him we aren’t winning the division last year and likely aren’t in a position to contend this year.

2. AA has nothing to do with what the previous regime did or didn’t do. He wasn’t planning on winning the division last year, nothing has been rushed since he came here. It’s pretty funny to see you claim that, yet everything AA has done during his tenure has been the complete opposite.

3. This team is set up to win 85-95 games for the foreseeable future.That’s not baseball purgatory. That’s called contending. Purgatory is what the Giants and Mets are doing right now. That means it was a successful rebuild, even if there were missteps along the way.

Those who have no vision are doomed to remain blind.

[CyYoung31]

Those who have no vision are doomed to remain blind.

Heed your words, for it may be the only thing you've ever been right about.

[Horsehide Harry]

Heed your words, for it may be the only thing you've ever been right about.

you're opinion.

You aren't objective and are wrong pretty much across the board. But you don't see it and worse, refuse to consider it as even possible.

1. They never committed to a rebuild. Yes, they did trade away several of their better players but attached dead contracts (that they gave in the first place) weakening the return, even though those contracts would have run their course by the end of the rebuild. They hurt the rebuild to move their mistakes. They also traded for win-now players, several of which blew up in their faces.

They committed to what they said they were doing which was a reload...but without the money to do it, so it collapsed into a rebuild which was foreshortened.

2. I have no idea what you are talking about here. I never said AA was tied to the previous regime EXCEPT in having to live with the results of previous decisions, especially regarding payroll and the fact that the previous regime hurried the rebuild setting the team up to be good enough to pretend contend which boxed AA in - he can't go back, he doesn't have the cash to go forward so all he can do is let it ride which burns valuable control time on players who will get old and expensive at an inopportune time.

3. This team isn't an 85-95 win team. It's a maybe .500 team with 85 being a ceiling not a floor. The lucky happenstance of last year doesn't mean that this year the Braves will benefit from the same breaks.

[rico43]

This isn't a second guess, but I would have kept Burrows over Jackson, easy.

[rico43]

We are now counting on two rookie starters to avoid a sweep. Prospects gotta grow sometime.

[The Chosen One]

Does Jackson have a relative or in-law on the current 25 that we don't know about?

Our bullpen and rotation wouldn't be that bad if the injuries to Foltz and Gaus didn't come out of nowhere. Because Wilson or Wright would have slotted in as long men/mop up instead of Carle and Luke.

The Sam Freeman release still baffles me a bit. Venters arm could be a question mark again, and Freeman was durable just overused by Snitkers.

[Buzzworm]

I think AA is good, and the bullpen will be fine when things shake out a bit. It’s certainly fine to wonder why we didn’t pick up a cheap piece or two there, though.

My ire is reserved for ownership, who seems to have the fanbase on a constant bait-and-switch hook for when we’re going to be a top-third payroll.

Exactly!!!
People blaming AA aren’t seeing the big picture.
This team made a ton of money last season and instead of putting some back into the team they decided to pay down debt.This year was punted with the expectation that we would be a solid above 500ish club that would still attract people to Suntrust and the battery but not good enough to be a true World Series contender and they could always fallback on the company line of we are a year ahead of schedule and we aren’t tied down with any long term contracts that could blah blah blah...
If they were more transparent and upfront about it maybe it would be easier to get behind but they are still standing by the “ we have plenty of money in reserve line of BS”.
It’s amazing how much of our fan base believes anything they say, when history has shown they are in this for the portfolio and money.
I like the front office approach of trusting our young guys in the starting rotation and riding out the injuries until our vets come back and not spending our money in free agency on a vet starter but not adding anything to the pen was beyond stupid.As much as the Braves love to have “value” and flexibility you’d figure they wouldn’t mind signing a couple vets for the bullpen on short deals this offseason instead of having some of the AAAA filler we are stuck with.

[Enscheff]

After losing game 1 we have declared the Braves to be stuck in “baseball purgatory” for the next several years?

At least the board is in mid season overreacting form!

[rico43]

Does Jackson have a relative or in-law on the current 25 that we don't know about?

Our bullpen and rotation wouldn't be that bad if the injuries to Foltz and Gaus didn't come out of nowhere. Because Wilson or Wright would have slotted in as long men/mop up instead of Carle and Luke.

The Sam Freeman release still baffles me a bit. Venters arm could be a question mark again, and Freeman was durable just overused by Snitkers.

Those photos that Keith Lockhart had of Terry McGuirk have been duly passed along.

[CyYoung31]

you're opinion.

You aren't objective and are wrong pretty much across the board. But you don't see it and worse, refuse to consider it as even possible.

1. They never committed to a rebuild. Yes, they did trade away several of their better players but attached dead contracts (that they gave in the first place) weakening the return, even though those contracts would have run their course by the end of the rebuild. They hurt the rebuild to move their mistakes. They also traded for win-now players, several of which blew up in their faces.

They committed to what they said they were doing which was a reload...but without the money to do it, so it collapsed into a rebuild which was foreshortened.

2. I have no idea what you are talking about here. I never said AA was tied to the previous regime EXCEPT in having to live with the results of previous decisions, especially regarding payroll and the fact that the previous regime hurried the rebuild setting the team up to be good enough to pretend contend which boxed AA in - he can't go back, he doesn't have the cash to go forward so all he can do is let it ride which burns valuable control time on players who will get old and expensive at an inopportune time.

3. This team isn't an 85-95 win team. It's a maybe .500 team with 85 being a ceiling not a floor. The lucky happenstance of last year doesn't mean that this year the Braves will benefit from the same breaks.

And you suffer from severe confirmation bias. Whereas I observe results and facts and draw conclusions based off them as they reveal themselves, you choose to die on your “Freeman should be traded” hill. I’m so glad you’ve decided how right your were all along 1 game into a division title defense season. Who’s the non-objective one again?

[zbhargrove]

I essentially predicted this three years ago. The roots of this go all the way back to the "reload" BS from the Johns.

Instead of rebuilding and committing to a 5 year process of building, they rushed through to reach a lucky and unexpected NL East championship (with immediate drubbing out) in 2018. Now, AA has a team too good not to contend but not good enough to really contend and not enough money to fix the problem and prospect capital that, if spent to fix holes, shortens the window into another likely rebuild near term. It's baseball purgatory, just as I predicted.

You predicted we would lose our opening day game 3 years ago? Wow

[thethe]

Reactions to opening day are the best reactions.

Starving for real baseball we are.

[CyYoung31]

Reactions to opening day are the best reactions.

Starving for real baseball we are.

I always knew you were the real Yoda.

[Super]

this...over one game?
damn people

[Super]

I essentially predicted this three years ago. The roots of this go all the way back to the "reload" BS from the Johns.

Instead of rebuilding and committing to a 5 year process of building, they rushed through to reach a lucky and unexpected NL East championship (with immediate drubbing out) in 2018. Now, AA has a team too good not to contend but not good enough to really contend and not enough money to fix the problem and prospect capital that, if spent to fix holes, shortens the window into another likely rebuild near term. It's baseball purgatory, just as I predicted.

dude, what?

[AerchAngel]

I failed?

Probably in life too.

[striker42]

Getting upset for losing one game is silly. Though I will say that there probably wouldn't be as much grumbling if we'd lost the game 4-3 or if the big play of the game was an error by Freddie. One of the reasons this game stung more than normal is because it was a huge, obvious hole (bullpen) that was the key to why we lost. That game shined a spotlight onto a glaring weakness of this roster.

At the start of the offseason, the pen was an obvious area that could be improved. There were a fair number of solid relievers on the market and some elite closers. That's not even considering what was available through trades. We had ample opportunity to improve the pen and we didn't bring in a single reliever. In fact, with Brach leaving, the pen actually got worse.

The reason to be upset with AA isn't because we lost the first game. The reason to be upset with AA is because of an incredibly bad offseason. Not upgrading the OF, completely ignoring the pen, failing to add a starter, etc. Those are failures by AA that will cost us a lot of games this year.

[striker42]

There is a huge difference between value and cheap. The Braves were super cheap and tried to make the excuse that they were looking for value.

This. I understand trying to get good value and making the money we have go as far as possible. But there comes a point where you have to fix the holes even if you're not getting the value you want.

If someone goes grocery shopping, looks for sales, and tries to find good deals, that person is looking for value and making their money go as far as possible. When someone refuses to buy food because they don't think the sales are good enough and starves to death, that person is an idiot.

AA took the latter route.

[Carp]

I essentially predicted this three years ago. The roots of this go all the way back to the "reload" BS from the Johns.

Instead of rebuilding and committing to a 5 year process of building, they rushed through to reach a lucky and unexpected NL East championship (with immediate drubbing out) in 2018. Now, AA has a team too good not to contend but not good enough to really contend and not enough money to fix the problem and prospect capital that, if spent to fix holes, shortens the window into another likely rebuild near term. It's baseball purgatory, just as I predicted.

This is absurd.

The Braves had 30-40 million (or more if you ask Liberty Media) in available payroll this off-season. We can argue whether that money was used efficiently or not, but it's clear we had plenty of money to make major improvements. And we only have like 30 million tied up in future obligations. Payroll is not an issue at this time.

From a prospect standpoint, we have one of the strongest farms in the league full of MLB ready talent and talent that's further away. Even if we traded half of our top 10 away in 2 major trades, we'd still have a very strong farm system that would likely still be top 10, along with adding two 1st round picks.

[Super]

From a prospect standpoint, we have one of the strongest farms in the league full of MLB ready talent and talent that's further away. Even if we traded half of our top 10 away in 2 major trades, we'd still have a very strong farm system that would likely still be top 10, along with adding two 1st round picks.

not to mention the two young studs already excelling at the MLB level.
the future looks great. the present looks pretty damn good too.

[jsebe10]

I honestly feel that AA was acting out the behest of the owners. I think even he was duped into believing that he had more money available then what was reality.

I don’t like throwing $20m at a player that we really didn’t need...Should have been used to address the blowpen.

[Southcack77]

I agree Carle > Jackson

but he's still a sacrificial lamb type 8th guy whose main role is to protect the more valuable arms

oh and this

Sam Freeman > Carle

I think Carle and Freeman are pretty equivalent. I'm not really sure why they released Freeman, though. If he hadn't been released folks would probably be complaining about him being a member of the staff.

The problem here is mainly injuries and perhaps will develop into the manager not properly using the resources he has available to him because he has comfort level from habit with other guys.

[nsacpi]

I think Carle and Freeman are pretty equivalent. I'm not really sure why they released Freeman, though. If he hadn't been released folks would probably be complaining about him being a member of the staff.

The problem here is mainly injuries and perhaps will develop into the manager not properly using the resources he has available to him because he has comfort level from habit with other guys.

The next week or so will be a test for Snitker. It is easy to manage a flush pen. But when a couple key guys go down, it becomes paramount to identify who to move into a higher leverage role. I actually don't think it was crazy to bring Carle in during the 6th inning yesterday. But he flunked the test. I think Sobotka and Parsons should be moved ahead of Carle for higher leverage situations that call for a righty. They might flunk the test too, but lets give them the next shot.

[striker42]

I honestly feel that AA was acting out the behest of the owners. I think even he was duped into believing that he had more money available then what was reality.

I don’t like throwing $20m at a player that we really didn’t need...Should have been used to address the blowpen.

I really doubt AA thought he had more money to spend than he did. Without a change in ownership or something on that level, you're not going to see unexpected things like that.

I think it's more likely that AA actually has flexibility. That he doesn't have orders to keep payroll low. However, I expect, as I've said all along, that AA and other execs have bonus structures that would be impacted by increasing payroll. It's not at all uncommon in any business to see execs have incentives to keeping costs down.

It explains why he's insisted he's had flexibility, why there have been rumors of us talking about expensive additions, and why AA has ultimately not pulled the trigger.

[Southcack77]

The next week or so will be a test for Snitker. It is easy to manage a flush pen. But when a couple key guys go down, it becomes paramount to identify who to move into a higher leverage role. I actually don't think it was crazy to bring Carle in during the 6th inning yesterday. But he flunked the test. I think Sobotka and Parsons should be moved ahead of Carle for higher leverage situations that call for a righty. They might flunk the test too, but lets give them the next shot.


I don't one think one appearance is really anything, but given how well Parsons pitched last year and in spring training it would be ok with me if he got more chances early on.

[TheBravos]

Guys...this first month is really tough. Injuries or no injuries, we would be lucky to come out with a winning record. Honestly I’m hoping for 16-14....but it could easily be 14-16 and we should be happy with a 15-15 start.

[Carp]

I really doubt AA thought he had more money to spend than he did. Without a change in ownership or something on that level, you're not going to see unexpected things like that.

I think it's more likely that AA actually has flexibility. That he doesn't have orders to keep payroll low. However, I expect, as I've said all along, that AA and other execs have bonus structures that would be impacted by increasing payroll. It's not at all uncommon in any business to see execs have incentives to keeping costs down.

It explains why he's insisted he's had flexibility, why there have been rumors of us talking about expensive additions, and why AA has ultimately not pulled the trigger.

And again, that also makes very little sense. GMs have a finite amount of time in order to win. And if they don't win in that time, they are generally fired. AA wasting peak years of his best players for may be a 500k bonus would be a pretty dumb financial move on his part.

[striker42]

Guys...this first month is really tough. Injuries or no injuries, we would be lucky to come out with a winning record. Honestly I’m hoping for 16-14....but it could easily be 14-16 and we should be happy with a 15-15 start.

I'm not nearly as concerned about the schedule as I am with the roster. It doesn't matter who we're playing, our pen is really bad, our rotation has to have rookies pitch like established starters to be any good, and there was no improvement to the OF. That concerns me far more than winning yesterday or what our April record will be.

[striker42]

And again, that also makes very little sense. GMs have a finite amount of time in order to win. And if they don't win in that time, they are generally fired. AA wasting peak years of his best players for may be a 500k bonus would be a pretty dumb financial move on his part.

That all depends on how the GM's success is measured. A team owned by a billionaire who sees the club as his toy might measure the GM's success by wins and losses. A corporate owned team, on the other hand, is almost certainly going to judge a GM based on the bottom line.

When a GM of a team owned by a corporation makes terrible decisions, squanders the payroll, and fields a terrible team, the decrease in revenue tends to lead to the GM's firing.

However, if you're fielding a team you know is going to be good enough to keep fans interested, why would a GM spend extra money to push the team over the hump?

The difference in revenue between a 65 win team and an 85 win team is huge. The difference in revenue between an 85 win team and a 92 win team isn't nearly as big.

With that in mind, why would a GM of a team that's got an excellent chance to win between 80 and 85 games spend another $30 million to try to push the team over 90 wins when doing so would cost him a lot of money personally?

AA is almost certainly incentivized to maximize profits. That means spending enough to keep fans interested but stopping before diminishing returns takes over.

[UNCBlue012]

Guys...this first month is really tough. Injuries or no injuries, we would be lucky to come out with a winning record. Honestly I’m hoping for 16-14....but it could easily be 14-16 and we should be happy with a 15-15 start.

I get that logic but hate that logic. Just keep winning. Don't worry about the opponent or SOS.

[Southcack77]

I think odds are that AA has money to spend, but is well aware of what his likely budgetary limits are in the short and long term.

I think he is exercising his own judgment as to what is the best approach to winning now and in the long term would be.

I don't think he's looking to stuff money in his pockets because of bonus structures. I don't think he's deliberately lying to the public. I don't think that Liberty or some secret MLB instruction has constrained his ability to sign players to what they have now.

I think things are largely as they have told us they are. Thing is, you have to listen to what they actually said rather than extrapolate what you wanted to hear.

AA is basically doing what nsacpi asked him to do minus Bud Norris. hoarding assets, not giving up anything, relentlessly waiting on value. I think we're about to see the limitations of such a strategy as there is no way of controlling what others do. Consoling yourself that the other teams will regret some of what they've done down the line is small comfort. And eventually, maybe something happens and your window passes before you get your great day of comeuppance.



I think AA probably should have done more small things than he did this offseason. That's my criticism. The big things, I don't really have an issue with. I think he's still very well suited to make big deadline acquisitions if the Braves are in position to do that.

I will say I think there will be very little on the free agent market to help the Braves. If any part of the plan is to spend big on big targets there, I don't see that one working out for Atlanta. Might well be ten teams bidding on Ozuna and nothing else worth mentioning.

[bravesfanMatt]

Liberty doesn’t care if they make a few million or even a hundred million off the Braves. They just want the asset to grow. Our payroll is a direct result of Terry McDork. He controls the finances and he is the one who decided to spend the excess profits towards the debt. He isn’t a dummy and knows he is risking a lot by being so involved in a risky revenue stream. If the Braves fall hard this year it could be disastrous for the long term success.

If revenue falls this year watch what our payroll will be next year.

[bravesfanMatt]

And for those of you who said this was one game relax. No this was being said all winter and spring. I don’t care if we win the next ten games. AA still failed this offseason. He is betting on kids succeeding, guys who are likely hurt not to be hurt and zero regression. He did NOTHING to buy insurance on probably outcomes.

[TheBravos]

I get that logic but hate that logic. Just keep winning. Don't worry about the opponent or SOS.

I always hope that. I’m just telling everyone not to freak out when we do not start the season that well. We have a really tough schedule and it could be the reverse of last year. I think we will be fine.

[Carp]

That all depends on how the GM's success is measured. A team owned by a billionaire who sees the club as his toy might measure the GM's success by wins and losses. A corporate owned team, on the other hand, is almost certainly going to judge a GM based on the bottom line.

When a GM of a team owned by a corporation makes terrible decisions, squanders the payroll, and fields a terrible team, the decrease in revenue tends to lead to the GM's firing.

However, if you're fielding a team you know is going to be good enough to keep fans interested, why would a GM spend extra money to push the team over the hump?

The difference in revenue between a 65 win team and an 85 win team is huge. The difference in revenue between an 85 win team and a 92 win team isn't nearly as big.

With that in mind, why would a GM of a team that's got an excellent chance to win between 80 and 85 games spend another $30 million to try to push the team over 90 wins when doing so would cost him a lot of money personally?

AA is almost certainly incentivized to maximize profits. That means spending enough to keep fans interested but stopping before diminishing returns takes over.

It's the same owner that owned the Braves through the the last 2 GMs and payroll has steadily increased. Why would it suddenly change now?
And I can guarantee you if the Braves don't consistently make the playoffs over the next 4 years (considering the talent we currently have in the majors and minors) AA will be gone. The public outcry from the fans will demand it.

It's very unlikely Liberty is involved much with the Braves operations. It was widely reported the Braves had roughly 40-50 million to spend this off-season and AA spent well over half that amount. If what you said were true, then he's doing things exactly the opposite to accomplish those goals.

[Super]

And for those of you who said this was one game relax. No this was being said all winter and spring. I don’t care if we win the next ten games. AA still failed this offseason. He is betting on kids succeeding, guys who are likely hurt not to be hurt and zero regression. He did NOTHING to buy insurance on probably outcomes.

you just really need to chill

[nsacpi]

I think odds are that AA has money to spend, but is well aware of what his likely budgetary limits are in the short and long term.

I think he is exercising his own judgment as to what is the best approach to winning now and in the long term would be.

I don't think he's looking to stuff money in his pockets because of bonus structures. I don't think he's deliberately lying to the public. I don't think that Liberty or some secret MLB instruction has constrained his ability to sign players to what they have now.

I think things are largely as they have told us they are. Thing is, you have to listen to what they actually said rather than extrapolate what you wanted to hear.

AA is basically doing what nsacpi asked him to do minus Bud Norris. hoarding assets, not giving up anything, relentlessly waiting on value. I think we're about to see the limitations of such a strategy as there is no way of controlling what others do. Consoling yourself that the other teams will regret some of what they've done down the line is small comfort. And eventually, maybe something happens and your window passes before you get your great day of comeuppance.



I think AA probably should have done more small things than he did this offseason. That's my criticism. The big things, I don't really have an issue with. I think he's still very well suited to make big deadline acquisitions if the Braves are in position to do that.

I will say I think there will be very little on the free agent market to help the Braves. If any part of the plan is to spend big on big targets there, I don't see that one working out for Atlanta. Might well be ten teams bidding on Ozuna and nothing else worth mentioning.

Going forward I anticipate more of the same kind of approach.

The details might look something like this:

1) Trades for a couple arms for the pen this mid-season. Likely one lefty and one righty. At least one will be under contractual control beyond 2019.

2) Trade for an outfielder such as David Peralta, Wil Myers or Joc Pederson. Could happen mid-season. Could happen next off-season.

3) Pursuit of a free agent catcher such as Cervelli or Grandal next off-season. Neither will have a QO attached. Cervelli could even be a trade target this mid-season.

4) Being open to a move for an established starter such as Kluber or Greinke. But the finances and risk profile have to be reasonable. In the case of someone like Greinke the other team would have to cover part of the contract.

5) Being opportunistic and willing to move in unexpected directions if a value opportunity presents itself. Donaldson will not be the last move under AA where we acquire someone where there is not a big positional need. Likewise, we might trade away someone unexpectedly if another team makes a strong offer.

Enjoy the season folks. The Braves are a contending team. Snit has to earn his paycheck the next week or two due to personnel issues in the pen.

[striker42]

It's the same owner that owned the Braves through the the last 2 GMs and payroll has steadily increased. Why would it suddenly change now?
And I can guarantee you if the Braves don't consistently make the playoffs over the next 4 years (considering the talent we currently have in the majors and minors) AA will be gone. The public outcry from the fans will demand it.

It's very unlikely Liberty is involved much with the Braves operations. It was widely reported the Braves had roughly 40-50 million to spend this off-season and AA spent well over half that amount. If what you said were true, then he's doing things exactly the opposite to accomplish those goals.


Not at all. If AA spent no money, you'd see revenue tank more than what he saved on payroll as the team would be terrible. The key is to find that sweet spot. Spend enough to keep fans interested and revenues high but stop before diminishing returns sets in and makes the money a financial waste.

If AA led the team to four straight years of missing the playoffs but had record high profits, Liberty would keep him as the GM. What does a media conglomerate in Colorado care about fans in Atlanta so long as those fans keep giving them their money?

If the Braves missed the playoffs four straight years, what would probably happen is you'd see revenue slipping. Fans would lose interest and stop coming to the park. That would get the GM in hot water. That's not an issue this year though. The Braves will probably sell a similar number of tickets if they don't spend another dime as they would if they spent $30 million more. Why waste $30 million for no additional revenue?

[Hudson2]

Camargo, Brantley, Grandal > Donaldson, Mac, Markakis

Donaldson is my favorite player in baseball too. But the first set of players was a realistic outcome with the money we had available. I don’t like beating a dead horse and I know it’s all said and done now but we didn’t pick up one single pitcher this offseason. How is that even remotely forgivable and acceptable?

[nsacpi]

Camargo, Brantley, Grandal > Donaldson, Mac, Markakis



but the question we need to ask is this:

is Camargo, Brantley, Grandal > Camargo, Donaldson, McCann, Markakis + about $10M

[Hudson2]

but the question we need to ask is this:

is Camargo, Brantley, Grandal > Camargo, Donaldson, McCann, Markakis + about $10M

I’d still do it and with the 10 million included. We saw Markakis fall on his face the 2nd half and now he’s a year older. I love Donaldson but with his injury history the past 2 years I couldn’t have put all of my eggs in his basket. We literally shut down the offseason after getting Donaldson. Completely unacceptable.

[bravesfanMatt]

you just really need to chill

Why.

[Tapate50]

This thread feels...............premature.

[Carp]

Not at all. If AA spent no money, you'd see revenue tank more than what he saved on payroll as the team would be terrible. The key is to find that sweet spot. Spend enough to keep fans interested and revenues high but stop before diminishing returns sets in and makes the money a financial waste.

If AA led the team to four straight years of missing the playoffs but had record high profits, Liberty would keep him as the GM. What does a media conglomerate in Colorado care about fans in Atlanta so long as those fans keep giving them their money?

If the Braves missed the playoffs four straight years, what would probably happen is you'd see revenue slipping. Fans would lose interest and stop coming to the park. That would get the GM in hot water. That's not an issue this year though. The Braves will probably sell a similar number of tickets if they don't spend another dime as they would if they spent $30 million more. Why waste $30 million for no additional revenue?

For one, they didn't have 30 million more. It's been widely assumed for awhile now (unless your Mark Bradley) that the Braves had 40-50 million to work with. They spent roughly 30 million, and will likely spend another 5-10 million for mid-season upgrades.

If you don't think AA would be fired after 4 seasons of missing the playoffs with the talent he currently has, then you haven't been paying attention to baseball. And if you don't think Liberty would bend to public outcry, you must not pay attention to basically every sport in America.

[nsacpi]

This thread feels...............premature.

Actually less so than is typical of similar threads. What happened with Carle and Jackson yesterday did crystalize some concerns that are entirely valid.

[Carp]

but the question we need to ask is this:

is Camargo, Brantley, Grandal > Camargo, Donaldson, McCann, Markakis + about $10M

I didn't want Brantley as much as others. My plan when the off-season started was Cutch, Grandal/Ramos, Dietrich, relief help, and re-sign Sanchez (or some other veteran starter like Gio may be). Now obviously it's impossible to know how the market would play out for each of these guys, but this was very doable.

[striker42]

For one, they didn't have 30 million more. It's been widely assumed for awhile now (unless your Mark Bradley) that the Braves had 40-50 million to work with. They spent roughly 30 million, and will likely spend another 5-10 million for mid-season upgrades.

If you don't think AA would be fired after 4 seasons of missing the playoffs with the talent he currently has, then you haven't been paying attention to baseball. And if you don't think Liberty would bend to public outcry, you must not pay attention to basically every sport in America.

Four seasons of failure wouldn't cause AA to be fired. Four seasons of failure might cause fan dissatisfaction that results is decreases in revenue. That decrease would cause AA to be fired. If the fans hated AA, the product on the field was terrible, and yet every game was a sellout, AA would keep his job.

However, the way fans tend to express dissatisfaction with a team is by not giving the team money. So failure would almost certainly lead to less revenue and thus to AA's firing.

Fan outcry is only relevant if it threatens the money. Liberty does not care at all if you're happy or not except as far as it impacts your willingness to give them money. When teams bow to fan outcry it is almost always because they're afraid of the drop in revenue fan dissatisfaction will cause. If there's no risk to revenue, there's no placation.

[Carp]

Also, why haven't we signed Ryan Madson? Seems like a pretty obvious move on a minor league at this point (unless he's demanding a major league deal).

[striker42]

This thread feels...............premature.

Saying the season is over at this point is premature. However, the offseason ended yesterday. Looking at the roster construction and grading how AA did is no premature at all.

[bravesfanMatt]

Actually less so than is typical of similar threads. What happened with Carle and Jackson yesterday did crystalize some concerns that are entirely valid.

It was said in the offseason thread when freeman was cut, that we were keeping Jackson over Freeman was dumb. That actually was my first comment on the subject. It was something known.

Also Watch what happens when we cut Duvall too. Also something we all saw coming. I can’t wait for the back lash when position guys start getting dinged up. A lineup with Duvall/raffy/and Culberson all starting will be fun. All things that could have been addressed this offseason but wasn’t.

[Southcack77]

For one, they didn't have 30 million more. It's been widely assumed for awhile now (unless your Mark Bradley) that the Braves had 40-50 million to work with. They spent roughly 30 million, and will likely spend another 5-10 million for mid-season upgrades.

If you don't think AA would be fired after 4 seasons of missing the playoffs with the talent he currently has, then you haven't been paying attention to baseball. And if you don't think Liberty would bend to public outcry, you must not pay attention to basically every sport in America.


Agreed.

Why can't people just disagree with decisions without having to make everything so dramatic and full of motives that fit their own odd idea of villainy.

[msstate7]

Actually less so than is typical of similar threads. What happened with Carle and Jackson yesterday did crystalize some concerns that are entirely valid.

I definitely have concerns about those 2, but I can also see they're pretty much filling spots till guys get healthy. If those guys aren't close to getting healthy, then the flipping out could be warranted.

[bravesfanMatt]

Saying the season is over at this point is premature. However, the offseason ended yesterday. Looking at the roster construction and grading how AA did is no premature at all.


Agreed. Season is far from over. There is plenty of talent to win games.

[striker42]

Also, why haven't we signed Ryan Madson? Seems like a pretty obvious move on a minor league at this point (unless he's demanding a major league deal).

I'd give Madson a major league deal right now. He's a far better option than either Jackson or Carle.

If we'd had DFA'd Duvall at the end of ST we could have given his 40 man spot and money to Madson and had an actual useful piece without adding payroll or exposing anyone of worth to waivers.

[Carp]

Four seasons of failure wouldn't cause AA to be fired. Four seasons of failure might cause fan dissatisfaction that results is decreases in revenue. That decrease would cause AA to be fired. If the fans hated AA, the product on the field was terrible, and yet every game was a sellout, AA would keep his job.

However, the way fans tend to express dissatisfaction with a team is by not giving the team money. So failure would almost certainly lead to less revenue and thus to AA's firing.

Fan outcry is only relevant if it threatens the money. Liberty does not care at all if you're happy or not except as far as it impacts your willingness to give them money. When teams bow to fan outcry it is almost always because they're afraid of the drop in revenue fan dissatisfaction will cause. If there's no risk to revenue, there's no placation.

You're arguing semantics. Of course us missing the playoffs will lead to lower revenues. At best you could argue it's a risky move, but in reality, it would be an extremely dumb move to marginalize costs for some sort of bonus structure when your job security is entirely dependent on the on-field success of the franchise.

[Horsehide Harry]

After losing game 1 we have declared the Braves to be stuck in “baseball purgatory” for the next several years?

At least the board is in mid season overreacting form!

I declared that they were stuck in baseball purgatory long ago. Certainly, one game isn't a trend. But this offseason was a trend for me which re-enforces my concerns regarding the rebuilding plan - they got to a point where perception says they should contend but find themselves in a place where they don't have enough payroll space to fill the holes needed to feed the fire of contending and that if they go into a full on trade the farm to contend now mindset then they are a one or two year wonder cratering back into a rebuild once again.

[nsacpi]

I definitely have concerns about those 2, but I can also see they're pretty much filling spots till guys get healthy. If those guys aren't close to getting healthy, then the flipping out could be warranted.

Assuming Minter and O'Day come back in a reasonable timeframe, it is just part of the ups and downs you have each season. I mostly view it as a test of Snitker's ability to manage with a short pen. It will be interesting to see if he gives Sobotka and Parsons some semi-high leverage innings before he turns to Carle again in a similar situation.

[Enscheff]

I declared that they were stuck in baseball purgatory long ago. Certainly, one game isn't a trend. But this offseason was a trend for me which re-enforces my concerns regarding the rebuilding plan - they got to a point where perception says they should contend but find themselves in a place where they don't have enough payroll space to fill the holes needed to feed the fire of contending and that if they go into a full on trade the farm to contend now mindset then they are a one or two year wonder cratering back into a rebuild once again.

This offseason was a result of a miscalculation of cOF cost by AA and the inability of the Braves to add long term payroll debt because of MLB debt servicing rules due to the desire to add even more long term commercial debt.

You didn’t call that happening 3 years ago. There is plenty of young talent around, and there would be plenty of cash if the Braves weren’t suddenly more interested in being a realty development company instead of a baseball team.

[Nerfherders]

We will never win a game this year. Yesterday proves it!

[Carp]

This offseason was a result of a miscalculation of cOF cost by AA and the inability of the Braves to add long term payroll debt because of MLB debt servicing rules due to the desire to add even more long term commercial debt.

You didn’t call that happening 3 years ago. There is plenty of young talent around, and there would be plenty of cash if the Braves weren’t suddenly more interested in being a realty development company instead of a baseball team.

This seems like the more plausible scenario. That and AA being a stickler for getting good value.

[Super]

Camargo, Brantley, Grandal > Donaldson, Mac, Markakis



didn't realize the team lost camargo.

[bravesfanMatt]

didn't realize the team lost camargo.


Is he a starter?

[nsacpi]

didn't realize the team lost camargo.

We traded him for Donaldson.

[striker42]

I definitely have concerns about those 2, but I can also see they're pretty much filling spots till guys get healthy. If those guys aren't close to getting healthy, then the flipping out could be warranted.

I disagree. Your argument is premised on the idea of total health by the pen once Minter and O'Day return. We know Viz has shoulder issues and who knows if Venters is going to hold up long term. Minter and O'Day returning healthy and staying healthy is also far from a guarantee.

Then there's the fact that we're relying on Parsons and Sobotka to perform in key roles while cutting their teeth.

The issue here is depth. AA should have added at least two relievers in the offseason. A closer or at least legit set up man and a middle reliever. That would provide the depth to keep guys like Jackson and Carle off the roster except in transient, 8th man roles while letting the younger relievers rotate up and down between Atlanta and AAA as needed.

The fact that Carle and Jackson are more than the 8th man shows how little depth we have in the pen.

[striker42]

You're arguing semantics. Of course us missing the playoffs will lead to lower revenues. At best you could argue it's a risky move, but in reality, it would be an extremely dumb move to marginalize costs for some sort of bonus structure when your job security is entirely dependent on the on-field success of the franchise.

It also makes no sense for AA to run up to his absolute payroll limit this year when doing so wont alter revenue. Save the money, increase profits, reap the reward.

Maybe if they miss the playoffs this year the calculus changes and he has to sink more money into payroll. That's not the case right now though. Coming off a division title win that ignited the fan base and still fielding a legitimate team, he has some ability to go cheap.

[Hudson2]

didn't realize the team lost camargo.

They didn’t. But he would be at 3b instead of JD and the money used to upgrade an actual hole. Isn’t hard to figure it out..thanks.

[Carp]

It also makes no sense for AA to run up to his absolute payroll limit this year when doing so wont alter revenue. Save the money, increase profits, reap the reward.

Maybe if they miss the playoffs this year the calculus changes and he has to sink more money into payroll. That's not the case right now though. Coming off a division title win that ignited the fan base and still fielding a legitimate team, he has some ability to go cheap.

Again, the inherent risk of not making the playoffs eventually getting you fired should outweigh any short term bonus structure. The simplest answer is most often the correct one, and so far the simplest explanation is what Enscheff mentioned.

[bravesfanMatt]

They didn’t. But he would be at 3b instead of JD and the money used to upgrade an actual hole. Isn’t hard to figure it out..thanks.

There is a valid argument in his statement. You are comparing 3 starters in a vacuum but not paying attention to the bench upgrade that Jogun brings.

[Enscheff]

I find it exceedingly unlikely AA didn’t spend payroll to boost his 2019 bonus. It seems illogical to be that short sighted. If the Braves face plant this year attendance will plummet, and AA will be on the hot seat. He knows this, so there’s no way he made roster decisions based on some bonus for a single year.

[striker42]

Again, the inherent risk of not making the playoffs eventually getting you fired should outweigh any short term bonus structure. The simplest answer is most often the correct one, and so far the simplest explanation is what Enscheff mentioned.

It's not just a bonus structure. I think AA getting a bonus is a big motivator but that's not all. If the Braves turn a fantastic profit this year that will solidify AA with Liberty far more than winning the division will.

The simplest explanation is most likely true. To me, trying to maximize profits is the simplest explanation. The Braves are being run as a business, profits are always going to be the driving force.

[striker42]

I find it exceedingly unlikely AA didn’t spend payroll to boost his 2019 bonus. It seems illogical to be that short sighted. If the Braves face plant this year attendance will plummet, and AA will be on the hot seat. He knows this, so there’s no way he made roster decisions based on some bonus for a single year.

He wasn't going to let the team face plant. He spent big money on Donaldson to try to ensure there wouldn't be a face plant. The roster is competitive as it stands. That being said, I don't see AA spending up to his payroll max to try to squeeze a few extra wins. I don't think the cost-benefit analysis works for him. Better to pocket that money, hit some goals, and hope for the best. If we miss the playoffs you can always spend the money next year.

One area that I don't think was profit motivated is the lack of attention to the pen. I think that was just a plain, old fashioned blunder.

[nsacpi]

the best way to maximize profits is to maximize wins per dollar

#valueproposition

[Super]

Is he a starter?

does a player have to be to have a big impact? camargo will get a lot of ABs. writing him out of that equation is stupid and slanted at the very best.

[Super]

They didn’t. But he would be at 3b instead of JD and the money used to upgrade an actual hole. Isn’t hard to figure it out..thanks.

got it. so they lost all possible production from camargo because they signed a clearly better 3B.
makes total sense. thanks.

[TheBravos]

I thought we would win 110 games this year, but after watching yesterday...I am adjusting that total to 55.

[Hudson2]

There is a valid argument in his statement. You are comparing 3 starters in a vacuum but not paying attention to the bench upgrade that Jogun brings.

Yeah I get that. He would of had to get a better bench piece in here if Camargo was used as a starter. We just put so many of our eggs in 2 guys over 30 that have injury histories or can’t play but half the games a year. I guess the whole conversation will be rehashed at the end of the season unless JD has another injury that sidelined him for most of the season. And then AA will really catch $hit.

[Hudson2]

got it. so they lost all possible production from camargo because they signed a clearly better 3B.
makes total sense. thanks.

JD is clearly better when healthy. WHEN healthy. You have to add in the difference between salaries and that production also. We’ll wait till the end of the season to compare everything.

[Super]

JD is clearly better when healthy. WHEN healthy. You have to add in the difference between salaries and that production also. We’ll wait till the end of the season to compare everything.

regardless, writing camargo out of your equation..when he's still on the team and will get plenty of ABs...makes zero sense.

[Hudson2]

regardless, writing camargo out of your equation..when he's still on the team and will get plenty of ABs...makes zero sense.

And you’re throwing him into being a backup outfielder which he’s never done when you had the resources to do better. Makes zero sense.

[Dalyn]

We can expect and demand too much as fans sometimes, but when the weakness is obvious and has been and the money is there to fix it, it is not too much at all to expect and even demand it to be fixed.

[striker42]

We can expect and demand too much as fans sometimes, but when the weakness is obvious and has been and the money is there to fix it, it is not too much at all to expect and even demand it to be fixed.

This says it perfectly. I was listening to 680 the fan on my lunch break and one of the hosts was kind of mocking Atlanta fans for being so upset after the first loss. I don't think he understood. It's not that fans are upset because of the loss, it's that fans are upset because of the fixable roster holes that were left untouched.

[nsacpi]

We can expect and demand too much as fans sometimes, but when the weakness is obvious and has been and the money is there to fix it, it is not too much at all to expect and even demand it to be fixed.

you talking about the pen or right field?

[Dalyn]

you talking about the pen or right field?

The offense is going to be okay, and if he'd signed Markakis so that even more money could be put into the other obvious holes, it might've even been a smart play. The pen, on the other hand, is atrocious, and arguably the best closer in baseball is still available and several other options have come and gone. It boggles the ****ing mind.

[nsacpi]

The offense is going to be okay, and if he'd signed Markakis so that even more money could be put into the other obvious holes, it might've even been a smart play. The pen, on the other hand, is atrocious, and arguably the best closer in baseball is still available and several other options have come and gone. It boggles the ****ing mind.

I thought we had 7 solid guys going into spring training: Viz, Minter, O'Day, Venters, Biddle, Freeman, Winkler. And was ok with the 8th guy being a sacrificial lamb type. Although signing Bud Norris to be the 8th guy was an idea I liked.

Well Minter and O'Day got hurt. Winkler I assume is not quite right and in that case having him spend a few weeks in the minors is fine. Add to that the strange Sam Freeman decision and all of a sudden we are down to 3 solid guys not 7.

It is like the "starting pitching crisis" we had at the start of spring training. The good news is no one is out long-term. And there is a chance Sobotka and/or Parsons will grab this opportunity.

[50PoundHead]

I think Enscheff wrapped it up nicely on the first page of the thread. Once Donaldson was signed, things slowed down to a crawl. The cOF options deemed to be upgrades over Markakis went for more money/years than what Anthopolous was ready to match and we lost out on a ton of opportunities in the meantime.

I really do wonder if the bullpen will shake out without putting one or two of the top-tier prospects there. Lots of question marks surrounding talent and/or durability.

[Carp]

I thought we had 7 solid guys going into spring training: Viz, Minter, O'Day, Venters, Biddle, Freeman, Winkler. And was ok with the 8th guy being a sacrificial lamb type. Although signing Bud Norris to be the 8th guy was an idea I liked.

Well Minter and O'Day got hurt. Winkler I assume is not quite right and in that case having him spend a few weeks in the minors is fine. Add to that the strange Sam Freeman decision and all of a sudden we are down to 3 solid guys not 7.

It is like the "starting pitching crisis" we had at the start of spring training. The good news is no one is out long-term. And there is a chance Sobotka and/or Parsons will grab this opportunity.

I mean I thought Carle and Sobotka were better options than Freeman, but knowing we were going to miss a few guys, cutting loose Freeman to save a million bucks seems odd.

We really need to already have Madson inked to a deal. Pretty evident our Pen is gonna be a rotating door all season.

[Horsehide Harry]

The Braves will win in 2019. They just aren't built to win enough, short a tremendous amount of good fortune.

For those thinking I'm down on them because of yesterday, that's not at all the case. At least no more than as a symptom of the disease.

On opening day you had a #5 starter taking the ball. You had a pen with mixed talent and undetermined roles. You had an offense with a major hole, with that hole batting 5th. And the bench is pretty meh. All that coming off a year where they won the division with a very young team and a lower half payroll, playing in a brand new stadium.

AA is playing the hand he was dealt. He may be playing those cards badly (and almost certainly is) but the hand was dealt years before.

Fans assume that this team will compete for the division again. After all they did last year and it was a surprise! Look at the Astros, people say. They won unexpectedly then missed the playoffs then settled in as an annual contender.

There's a big difference in the Astros and Braves. The in-season 40 man payroll for the Astros in 2014 was $54.5M (they took it all the way down to $26M in 2013) with their biggest commitments to Scott Feldman for 3 years (12, 10, 8) and Dexter Fowler (7.85). On opening day 2015 their payroll was $72M. They did a true rebuild. They made mistakes and were inefficient. But they were smart overall and now stand as a multi-year contender on a pretty stabilized payroll. And they still have young talent coming.

The Braves NEVER did that. They kept the payroll in the $90-120M range throughout. Sure, they took on payroll to get supposed talent but they gave up talent value to move payroll as well. It was just a mess. What they obviously wanted to build was the illusion of trying to compete, but at the expense of the future.

Now, the Braves have an unexpected early arrival but they are cash starved to make the fire burn.

They signed Donaldson. If he plays like his MVP prior self then it was a good deal. But it's only short term. If he plays well, the Braves can't afford him in the future. If he plays poorly the Braves probably fail in 2019 and enter 2020 with the same hole they entered 2019 with. Either way 3B is a hole next year with the only positive answer being a 3 WAR Riley out of the gate. You've also got a band aide in RF and an unsettled pen. You should have enough starters since that was the focus of most talent acquisitions over the last 4 years but injury is a question (with no money apparently to go outside).

Fans want to believe that the Braves will be a good team and contend in 2019. But what if they don't? What does 2020 look like? You have no Donaldson. No Markakis. A 30 YO Freeman. You have Swanson with 3 years service time and no longer minimum cheap. A catching duo ready to collect social security. A 2nd baseman with 2 years service time hopefully coming off a good year and a young LF with star ability. Your top pitcher in Folty (assuming he isn't hurt) has 4 years service time and is getting expensive. Teheran is gone at least. Gausman has 5 years service time and is expensive. The pen is completely up in the air. What little money there is will likely be eaten by raises for those not so young youngsters who make up the bulk of the team.

Teams can only successfully build like the Braves have tried if they have the payroll space to fill in the gaps as needed. The large payroll teams do this all the time. But the Braves don't have that payroll space.

[Enscheff]

Someone please summarize as if this is a message board

[Perfect Cell]

Was it AA or was it liberty ?

[Tapate50]

So where do we gather with the pitchforks and torches?



Asking for a friend

[Jaw]

I've never understood the desire to add a starting pitcher when the top two levels of the minors were full of SP prospects. Mid-market teams have to use that kind of talent to compete.

Same thing with Kimbrel. If a mid-market spends that kind of cash on a closer they will be handicapped elsewhere. You have to be able to fill that spot internally, cheaply. The failure to sign one of the bargain FA bullpen guys baffles me, as does cutting Sam Freeman.

I'm disappointed that Will Myers seems to be the best answer for RF that we were close on, and loathe that Markakis was the fallback plan.

Donaldson for one year is our best FA sign in many years. I expect some games this year where he, Freddie, and Acuna just destroy teams. It's just too bad there wasn't another legitimate bat added with him.

McCann and Flowers will be great for our young pitchers.

That certainly doesn't add up to an A+, but I can't see calling it a failure either.

[CyYoung31]

Someone please summarize as if this is a message board

The Braves only wanted to give the “illusion” of a rebuild by losing 90+ games for 3 straight years.

[Southcack77]

Frankly if the braves not signing Donaldson would have had lead them to overpay other FAs, I’m glad they signed Donaldson.

I don’t think not signing Donaldson would have lead to a better offseason though it might have met someone’s own fetishes better.

[tululush]

Frankly if the braves not signing Donaldson would have had lead them to overpay other FAs, I’m glad they signed Donaldson.

I don’t think not signing Donaldson would have lead to a better offseason though it might have met someone’s own fetishes better.

I’m pretty sure the only festish that was satisfied was AA’s to sign his bff, Donaldson. We had Camargo at third that would have sufficed. In fact, I’m willing to bet had Camargo been given the season to start at third he would have bested Donaldson’s numbers this year. But since we’ll never know, I’m willing to bet Camargo’s 2017 will best Donaldson’s 2018. In any event, having Camargo at third and using the 23 million to fill the holes the team had in rf and in the pen would have been much smarter and constructed a much better team. Instead we’ve literally put all of our eggs into one oft injured basket, and at the same time have downgraded in rf and the pen from last year. The offseason and AA = failure and this season may very well follow the same.

[CyYoung31]

I’m pretty sure the only festish that was satisfied was AA’s to sign his bff, Donaldson. We had Camargo at third that would have sufficed. In fact, I’m willing to bet had Camargo been given the season to start at third he would have bested Donaldson’s numbers this year. But since we’ll never know, I’m willing to bet Camargo’s 2017 will best Donaldson’s 2018. In any event, having Camargo at third and using the 23 million to fill the holes the team had in rf and in the pen would have been much smarter and constructed a much better team. Instead we’ve literally put all of our eggs into one oft injured basket, and at the same time have downgraded in rf and the pen from last year. The offseason and AA = failure and this season may very well follow the same.

Lmao

[zbhargrove]

I've always like AA but I'm starting to wonder if he's just a bad negotiator... this off season with the the trades that were close to happening that never happened and the Carter Stewart situation...

[thewupk]

7 pages of this because the Braves lost the 1st game?

[tululush]

Lmao

In 464 abs last year, Camargo finished with 63 runs, 19 hr, 76 rbi, 1 sb, .272 avg and .806 ops.

Yes, with Donaldson’s injury history and age, I’m willing to bet that those numbers best what’s Donaldson does in 2019.

And let’s not also forget to take into account Donaldson’s salary of 23 million this year vs Camargo’s salary of 575k.

I stand by my argument that not only will 2018 Camargo produce more offense than 2019 Donaldson, but we will have spent 22 million more in the process when that money could have been used elsewhere.

Complete failure for AA.

[Carp]

Someone please summarize as if this is a message board

Braves don't have any money to make significant moves in FA/trades. Even though we spent 30 million in FA this off-season (with lots of payroll flexibility according to Liberty Media) and only have a total of 30 million in commitments for 2020.

Basically it boils down to he's still butt hurt we didn't trade Freeman.

[Carp]

In 464 abs last year, Camargo finished with 63 runs, 19 hr, 76 rbi, 1 sb, .272 avg and .806 ops.

Yes, with Donaldson’s injury history and age, I’m willing to bet that those numbers best what’s Donaldson does in 2019.

And let’s not also forget to take into account Donaldson’s salary of 23 million this year vs Camargo’s salary of 575k.

I stand by my argument that not only will 2018 Camargo produce more offense than 2019 Donaldson, but we will have spent 22 million more in the process when that money could have been used elsewhere.

Complete failure for AA.

Camargo ran into some good luck to get those offensive numbers. He's likely more of a 1-2 WAR player than a consistent 3 WAR player. Donaldson is likely a 4-5 WAR player or better. The extra 20 million is WELL worth the likely 3 WAR difference.

Not to mention. Camargo is still on the team and will likely see about 400-500 at bats in some capacity over the year.

[thewupk]

In 464 abs last year, Camargo finished with 63 runs, 19 hr, 76 rbi, 1 sb, .272 avg and .806 ops.

Yes, with Donaldson’s injury history and age, I’m willing to bet that those numbers best what’s Donaldson does in 2019.

And let’s not also forget to take into account Donaldson’s salary of 23 million this year vs Camargo’s salary of 575k.

I stand by my argument that not only will 2018 Camargo produce more offense than 2019 Donaldson, but we will have spent 22 million more in the process when that money could have been used elsewhere.

Complete failure for AA.

Camargo was 9.9 batting runs above average in 2018. Donaldson's lowest amount prior to last year was 22.7

Donaldson is a much better hitter and it's not close.

[tululush]

Camargo ran into some good luck to get those offensive numbers. He's likely more of a 1-2 WAR player than a consistent 3 WAR player. Donaldson is likely a 4-5 WAR player or better. The extra 20 million is WELL worth the likely 3 WAR difference.

Not to mention. Camargo is still on the team and will likely see about 400-500 at bats in some capacity over the year.

It’s kind of a moot point since I said Camargo’s numbers last year will be better than Donaldson’s this year. It’s a black and white statement. Not, well Camargo lucked into those stats. Luck, skill, or both, those were his numbers. And I think Donaldson’s 2019 offensive numbers will be on par or worse than Camargo’s in 2018. If Donaldson injures himself and goes down for the season will the excuse be, “well if he didn’t get injured...” No. It’s part of the game and the argument I’m making. Objectively, 2018 Camargo will be on par or better than 2019 Donaldson offensively.

[thewupk]

It’s kind of a moot point since I said Camargo’s numbers last year will be better than Donaldson’s this year. It’s a black and white statement. Not, well Camargo lucked into those stats. Luck, skill, or both, those were his numbers. And I think Donaldson’s 2019 offensive numbers will be on par or worse than Camargo’s in 2018. If Donaldson injures himself and goes down for the season will the excuse be, “well if he didn’t get injured...” No. It’s part of the game and the argument I’m making. Objectively, 2018 Camargo will be on par or better than 2019 Donaldson offensively.

The chances of that happening are remotely slim. Just as the odds of Camargo repeating his 2018 numbers are small as well.

[Carp]

It’s kind of a moot point since I said Camargo’s numbers last year will be better than Donaldson’s this year. It’s a black and white statement. Not, well Camargo lucked into those stats. Luck, skill, or both, those were his numbers. And I think Donaldson’s 2019 offensive numbers will be on par or worse than Camargo’s in 2018. If Donaldson injures himself and goes down for the season will the excuse be, “well if he didn’t get injured...” No. It’s part of the game and the argument I’m making. Objectively, 2018 Camargo will be on par or better than 2019 Donaldson offensively.

It's highly doubtful. Particularly if you're only basing it on offense. I'd say it's pretty likely Donaldson is a high .800, low .900 OPS type of hitter (like he was for Cleveland last year). Sure there is a little more risk of injury, but the other OF options available had the same risk without the offensive upside.

[The Chosen One]

AerchAngel

Never in almost 20 years of posting did you think a thread made about you would cause so much commotion.

[CyYoung31]

AerchAngel

Never in almost 20 years of posting did you think a thread made about you would cause so much commotion.

What about “AA on Trial”?

[Horsehide Harry]

Someone please summarize as if this is a message board

If I don't at least try to provide detail to what I'm saying all I get is straw man arguments (I usually get them anyway because I say what people don't want to think about much less hear). There's one right now, a passive aggressive straw man, regarding trading Freeman in another thread.

In four years we'll all be sitting around the computer wondering what happened to those promising young Braves and everyone's answer will be bad luck or insufficient payroll when the real problem will be a bad rebuild from root causes.

[Horsehide Harry]

The Braves only wanted to give the “illusion” of a rebuild by losing 90+ games for 3 straight years.

You can suck with a good plan and set the foundation for it not to happen again for a long time.

OR, you can suck with no real coherent plan and be right back to sucking again soon.

[Enscheff]

But...the Braves didn’t suck last year and are very unlikely to suck this year.

I think the root cause of your ranting is that you don’t quite understand what is reasonable to expect from a team with a middling payroll. Winning 85-90 wins long term is about the best that can be expecteded.

[Bravesfannchar]

7 pages of this because the Braves lost the 1st game?

If we lose today, this could get legendary.

[Horsehide Harry]

But...the Braves didn’t suck last year and are very unlikely to suck this year.

I think the root cause of your ranting is that you don’t quite understand what is reasonable to expect from a team with a middling payroll. Winning 85-90 wins long term is about the best that can be expecteded.

Not true.

Astros, Cardinals, Indians, Brewers are all on a "middling payroll" with the Cards being on the high side of that range. Building a team that wins in the 85-90 range on a consistent basis will rarely get you anywhere and is the path of the Pirates, Rays and A's...in other words small market clubs.

There's a difference in not sucking and being legitimately good.

[Enscheff]

Not true.

Astros, Cardinals, Indians, Brewers are all on a "middling payroll" with the Cards being on the high side of that range. Building a team that wins in the 85-90 range on a consistent basis will rarely get you anywhere and is the path of the Pirates, Rays and A's...in other words small market clubs.

There's a difference in not sucking and being legitimately good.

As I said, completely unreasonable expectations, proven by the above statement.

I think you need to review how long those teams have been winning, and what their payroll is compared to the Braves. Then review what “long term” means.

[CyYoung31]

Not true.

Astros, Cardinals, Indians, Brewers are all on a "middling payroll" with the Cards being on the high side of that range. Building a team that wins in the 85-90 range on a consistent basis will rarely get you anywhere and is the path of the Pirates, Rays and A's...in other words small market clubs.

There's a difference in not sucking and being legitimately good.

Indians have only been good for 3 years, and won 100 games one year. The year before, they won 94 games. Last year they won 90 games in a garbage division, and are poised to be about the same or worse this year.

Brewers have been good for one ****ing year.

Cardinals haven’t made the playoffs in 4 years.

Are you sure you have a point?

[striker42]

7 pages of this because the Braves lost the 1st game?

There are certainly some posts because of that. More it's a reaction to the problems with the opening day roster. It's complaining about the off-season ending with so many roster holes.

[Enscheff]

Indians have only been good for 3 years, and won 100 games one year. The year before, they won 94 games. Last year they won 90 games in a garbage division, and are poised to be about the same or worse this year.

Brewers have been good for one ****ing year.

Cardinals haven’t made the playoffs in 4 years.

Are you sure you have a point?

And the Astros have an opening day payroll of abut $176M this year.

Again, the basis of HHs ranting isn’t grounded in facts.

[striker42]

Not upgrading the pitching staff is really a problem

[Hudson2]

Not upgrading the pitching staff is really a problem

I’m not really worried about the rotation. But the bullpen...

[salmagundy]

He has put the Braves in a position to win "The Belt". A real feather in his cap. Braves one of 5 finalists.

[bravesfanMatt]

Maybe AA is hoping for one more good draft pick. Genius

[Pacheaholic]

So when can we finally start to freak out without the AA ass kissers telling us its too early?

[CyYoung31]

So when can we finally start to freak out without the AA ass kissers telling us its too early?

Try May.

[striker42]

I'm calling it, AA is not going to cut it as a GM. He needs to go. The inability to improve the pitching staff is inexcusable. He's overmatched.

[CyYoung31]

I'm calling it, AA is not going to cut it as a GM. He needs to go. The inability to improve the pitching staff is inexcusable. He's overmatched.

It’s like you missed his time as GM of the
Blue Jays.

[Deester11]

Well....I certainly am not happy with AA's plan at the moment, but I'll give it til May. However fans can have the opinion that this is bull**** we're looking at. To see teams spend to address their shortcomings and the Braves "wait -and -see" strategy look questionable even in the offseason, is a downer.

[striker42]

It’s like you missed his time as GM of the
Blue Jays.

You mean his time of Canadian futility?

[CyYoung31]

You mean his time of Canadian futility?

What?

[striker42]

What?

AA wasn't great in Toronto. Not sure if you were saying his time as the Jay's GM showed he was able to do the job or not. I look at his time there and am less than impressed.

[CyYoung31]

AA wasn't great in Toronto. Not sure if you were saying his time as the Jay's GM showed he was able to do the job or not. I look at his time there and am less than impressed.

You're less than impressed that he was able to lead a franchise who hadn't reached the playoffs in 22 years to back to back playoff appearances? That he was able to wrestle the stranglehold of the division away from the Red Sox and Yankees with a middling payroll?

[PurpleBrave]

I had high hopes after 2018, but that's built on premise of teams taking advantage of their windows, not stagnating while everyone else gets better.

We’re paying what? Two players? Freeman, Donaldson, Teheran somewhat. The rest are pretty much minimum guys. Go get somebody to help.

It’s a shame.

[Pacheaholic]

Try May.

So when they're already 10+ games behind the Phillies.

[CyYoung31]

So when they're already 10+ games behind the Phillies.

Newsflash: Phillies aren’t this good and the Braves aren’t this bad. But you can continue overreacting if it makes you feel better.

[striker42]

You're less than impressed that he was able to lead a franchise who hadn't reached the playoffs in 22 years to back to back playoff appearances? That he was able to wrestle the stranglehold of the division away from the Red Sox and Yankees with a middling payroll?

Go look at the moves he made. He couldn't get out of his own way.

[Pacheaholic]

Newsflash: Phillies aren’t this good and the Braves aren’t this bad. But you can continue overreacting if it makes you feel better.

Newsflash: CyYoung31 has his head inserted into AA's ass.

[CyYoung31]

Newsflash: CyYoung31 has his head inserted into AA's ass.

And you have your head firmly inserted into your own ass, which is much harder to fix.

[striker42]

I could take AA constantly lying to the fanbase if he was at least a competent GM. The fact that he lying to our faces and bad at his job is too much.

[Hudson2]

I just don’t like the either we get value or no deal type of mentality. It’s ok to overpay just a little sometimes to improve your team. All it does when you half a$$ it is lose an extra year of control over your own players. We don’t know what the Mariners wanted for Haniger, Paxton, or Diaz or the Marlins for JTR but we had what it took to get any of them. I know Haniger would have cost a ton but Paxton and Diaz would have boosted the pitching staff in a huge way. I think the way AA handled the offseason was mediocre at best. I know he got good value on JD but to just shut it down after that wasn’t the way you’d want your GM to handle the offseason of a team that just won the division.

[striker42]

I just don’t like the either we get value or no deal type of mentality. It’s ok to overpay just a little sometimes to improve your team. All it does when you half a$$ it is lose an extra year of control over your own players. We don’t know what the Mariners wanted for Haniger, Paxton, or Diaz or the Marlins for JTR but we had what it took to get any of them. I know Haniger would have cost a ton but Paxton and Diaz would have boosted the pitching staff in a huge way. I think the way AA handled the offseason was mediocre at best. I know he got good value on JD but to just shut it down after that wasn’t the way you’d want your GM to handle the offseason of a team that just won the division.

Who just won the division and had a TON of dead payroll coming off the books.

[Hudson2]

Who just won the division and had a TON of dead payroll coming off the books.

Everybody won’t agree on everything I get that. But to look at the offseason and say he didn’t blow it by not signing a bullpen arm or two is mind blowing. He did nothing after JD and Mac. Nothing. And now it’s showing. Acuna won’t get anything to hit all year with Markakis hitting behind him and he’ll burn up the kids clock by using them in the bullpen to try making up for his short comings in the offseason. I was excited when we hired AA but I have started second guessing him and how his arrogance won’t let him give in on certain things to help the team.

[striker42]

Everybody won’t agree on everything I get that. But to look at the offseason and say he didn’t blow it by not signing a bullpen arm or two is mind blowing. He did nothing after JD and Mac. Nothing. And now it’s showing. Acuna won’t get anything to hit all year with Markakis hitting behind him and he’ll burn up the kids clock by using them in the bullpen to try making up for his short comings in the offseason. I was excited when we hired AA but I have started second guessing him and how his arrogance won’t let him give in on certain things to help the team.

If you want to see his arrogance, Adam Duv-awful is getting paid his full salary by the Braves. AA will never admit a mistake.

[CyYoung31]

Everybody won’t agree on everything I get that. But to look at the offseason and say he didn’t blow it by not signing a bullpen arm or two is mind blowing. He did nothing after JD and Mac. Nothing. And now it’s showing. Acuna won’t get anything to hit all year with Markakis hitting behind him and he’ll burn up the kids clock by using them in the bullpen to try making up for his short comings in the offseason. I was excited when we hired AA but I have started second guessing him and how his arrogance won’t let him give in on certain things to help the team.

Not fixing RF was inexcusable. I wanted a high quality veteran reliever too, but I can forgive that.

[Hudson2]

If you want to see his arrogance, Adam Duv-awful is getting paid his full salary by the Braves. AA will never admit a mistake.

Duval making 3 million to play in AAA is crazy. He should of never been tendered a contract.

[striker42]

Duval making 3 million to play in AAA is crazy. He should of never been tendered a contract.

Anyone with half a brain knew Duvall was done. The only person who thought he had anything left in the tank was AA and only then because nontendering him is tantamount to admitting a mistake.

Tendering Duvall a contract confirmed AA can't set aside his ego when making player evaluations.

[Hudson2]

Not fixing RF was inexcusable. I wanted a high quality veteran reliever too, but I can forgive that.


RF was the biggest hole on the roster heading into the offseason imo. We had Camargo to fall back on at 3b and Riley was coming. We needed to get a big bat for the OF to bat 5th and it just didn’t happen and there’s no excuse why. He could of taken Duvals and Sam Freeman’s money and got a solid bullpen arm. As fans and the people who keep the doors open at the parks with the money we spend we have to hold these people accountable and ask questions.

[Hudson2]

Anyone with half a brain knew Duvall was done. The only person who thought he had anything left in the tank was AA and only then because nontendering him is tantamount to admitting a mistake.

Tendering Duvall a contract confirmed AA can't set aside his ego when making player evaluations.


And that’s his worst trait. He’s bull headed and arrogant and it’s probably pissed off some other GM’s and that’s why no trades got done.

[Chico]

For AA not to have egg on his face we need all of our pitching prospects to excel in the 1st half of the season to increase their trade value before July rolls around.

[nsacpi]

Although I advocated getting a bullpen arm, such as Bud Norris, I would not make the claim that this was a high priority. We have a lot of pitching depth. Consider the list of players ticketed for AAA this year: Touki, Wilson, Wright, Allard, Soroka, Gohara. That's a lot of depth knocking on the door.

But we've had a confluence of injuries and some of those young pitchers who have been called upon have had a case of the jitters. Injuries to pitching this spring include Gohara (shoulder), Soroka (shoulder), Gausman (shoulder), Minter (shoulder), Folty (elbow) and O'Day (forearm). That's a lot. You can foresee needing depth. But you can't foresee so many injuries at the same time. The good news is that most of those guys are on their way back. The only one who might be out for a while is O'Day.

The pitching will sort itself out. I don't think overpaying for DK or CK is a good idea (and I think it is telling that so far 30 major league teams have passed on their asking price). Focusing relentlessly on getting good value IS a good idea.

[striker42]

Although I advocated getting a bullpen arm, such as Bud Norris, I would not make the claim that this was a high priority. We have a lot of pitching depth. Consider the list of players ticketed for AAA this year: Touki, Wilson, Wright, Allard, Soroka, Gohara. That's a lot of depth knocking on the door.

But we've had a confluence of injuries and some of those young pitchers who have been called upon have had a case of the jitters. Injuries to pitching this spring include Gohara (shoulder), Soroka (shoulder), Gausman (shoulder), Minter (shoulder), Folty (elbow) and O'Day (forearm). That's a lot. You can foresee needing depth. But you can't foresee so many injuries at the same time. The good news is that most of those guys are on their way back. The only one who might be out for a while is O'Day.

The pitching will sort itself out. I don't think overpaying for DK or CK is a good idea (and I think it is telling that so far 30 major league teams have passed on their asking price). Focusing relentlessly on getting good value IS a good idea.

The only injury that was probably unpredictable was Gausman. Folty's elbow issues cropped up from time to time last year and are well known. O'Day, Gohara, and Soroka should never have been counted on when making plans for this year. And, as I've said before, you can usually count on at least one reliever not being ready at the start of the season as we saw with Minter.

Our staff is not durable. That was known. The only fall back when injuries inevitably struck was relying on young pitchers to contribute in a serious way. That's a bad strategy. You should be easing guys like Wright and Wilson into the rotation in the 5th spot, maybe the 4th. You should throw them out there in the opening series.

[nsacpi]

The only injury that was probably unpredictable was Gausman. Folty's elbow issues cropped up from time to time last year and are well known. O'Day, Gohara, and Soroka should never have been counted on when making plans for this year. And, as I've said before, you can usually count on at least one reliever not being ready at the start of the season as we saw with Minter.

Our staff is not durable. That was known. The only fall back when injuries inevitably struck was relying on young pitchers to contribute in a serious way. That's a bad strategy. You should be easing guys like Wright and Wilson into the rotation in the 5th spot, maybe the 4th. You should throw them out there in the opening series.

Injuries are unpredictable. Injuries for formerly injured pitchers. Injuries for formerly durable pitchers. They happen. You accumulate depth to deal with them. We've had six pitchers get injured this spring. That many is NOT predictable. As it turns out, we have a lot of pitching depth. I wouldn't have minded signing Bud Norris. I WOULD mind overpaying for DK or CK.

[striker42]

Injuries are unpredictable. Injuries for formerly injured pitchers. Injuries for formerly durable pitchers. They happen. You accumulate depth to deal with them. We've had six pitchers get injured this spring. That many is NOT predictable. As it turns out, we have a lot of pitching depth. I wouldn't have minded signing Bud Norris. I WOULD mind overpaying for DK or CK.

I think 6 injuries is a number we should have been prepared against. Gohara, Soroka, and O'Day could not be counted on. Their existing injury issues pretty much precluded them from being counted on in any meaningful way. A good GM prepares as if he's getting no production from those guys and is pleasantly surprised if he does.

Really we had 3 "new" injuries. Folty's elbow issue has flared up in the past so while you can't predict when it will cause issues, is something you have to prepare against. With Minter, Viz, Venters, and (to a lesser extent) Biddle, you're going to have relievers injured. When you have that many guys with that long of injury histories, you have to prepare extra depth there.

The only injury that caught me off guard was Gausman who has been a horse. But, pitchers get hurt.

Considering our known injury issues and the fact that random injuries can happen, it was incredible foolishness not to add pitching depth. Even with adding veteran depth, there were going to be enough injuries to give opportunities for the kids.

[Dalyn]

We are probably still going to be a good team, a contending team, but with a couple of moves we could've been a powerhouse. That's what hurts. That's why the fans are "overreacting." At least some of them.

[nsacpi]

I think 6 injuries is a number we should have been prepared against. Gohara, Soroka, and O'Day could not be counted on. Their existing injury issues pretty much precluded them from being counted on in any meaningful way. A good GM prepares as if he's getting no production from those guys and is pleasantly surprised if he does.

Really we had 3 "new" injuries. Folty's elbow issue has flared up in the past so while you can't predict when it will cause issues, is something you have to prepare against. With Minter, Viz, Venters, and (to a lesser extent) Biddle, you're going to have relievers injured. When you have that many guys with that long of injury histories, you have to prepare extra depth there.

The only injury that caught me off guard was Gausman who has been a horse. But, pitchers get hurt.

Considering our known injury issues and the fact that random injuries can happen, it was incredible foolishness not to add pitching depth. Even with adding veteran depth, there were going to be enough injuries to give opportunities for the kids.

We DO have a lot of pitching depth. I wouldn't have minded adding a little at the margins. Someone like Bud Norris. But hard pass on overpaying for DK or CK. The fact that 30 teams have so far declined to meet their asks says something.

[bravesfanMatt]

I am in the court of not blaming anyone but bad luck for the pitching issues. We should have addressed the pen. I don’t want our assets to pitch mop up work instead of hopefully building value. I am more pissed we didn’t upgrade the offense. We could have added more and didn’t. That said we should have easily beaten the Paxton deal.

[nsacpi]

I am in the court of not blaming anyone but bad luck for the pitching issues. We should have addressed the pen. I don’t want our assets to pitch mop up work instead of hopefully building value. I am more pissed we didn’t upgrade the offense. We could have added more and didn’t. That said we should have easily beaten the Paxton deal.

Paxton went for a fair price. I would have been ok with matching that.

[striker42]

We DO have a lot of pitching depth. I wouldn't have minded adding a little at the margins. Someone like Bud Norris. But hard pass on overpaying for DK or CK. The fact that 30 teams have so far declined to meet their asks says something.

We have lots of talented arms. However, most of our depth is in the form of young starters, many of whom could use more seasoning at AAA. We're seeing now why it's not a great idea to rely on them like we have.

We needed at least one veteran starter and two relievers in my estimation. We'd still have had to rely on the young starters more than is ideal but not anything like we've seen and probably will see as the year goes on. It also would move guys like Carle and Jackson out of the spots as the first options when we have injuries. That would have given us the depth we needed without overcrowding when healthy.

Getting an excellent if not front line starter would have been my preferred route as it adds depth and also upgrades the roster when everyone's healthy. However, an experienced middle of the rotation arm was a necessity. As for the relievers, a closer like Kimbrel would improve the whole pen but is ultimately a luxury. However, bare minimum would be two fairly reliable middle relievers.

AA's neglect of the staff is inexcusable.

[nsacpi]

We have lots of talented arms. However, most of our depth is in the form of young starters, many of whom could use more seasoning at AAA. We're seeing now why it's not a great idea to rely on them like we have.

We needed at least one veteran starter and two relievers in my estimation. We'd still have had to rely on the young starters more than is ideal but not anything like we've seen and probably will see as the year goes on. It also would move guys like Carle and Jackson out of the spots as the first options when we have injuries. That would have given us the depth we needed without overcrowding when healthy.

Getting an excellent if not front line starter would have been my preferred route as it adds depth and also upgrades the roster when everyone's healthy. However, an experienced middle of the rotation arm was a necessity. As for the relievers, a closer like Kimbrel would improve the whole pen but is ultimately a luxury. However, bare minimum would be two fairly reliable middle relievers.

AA's neglect of the staff is inexcusable.

I don't think it is inexcusable. You take some chances however you construct your team. And given the pitching we have coming down the pipeline, I think it is a risk worth taking to lean on that rather than overspend on veteran arms. I was in favor of a value acquisition like Bud Norris. But to me it was close to a push. I did think that we would have to make some mid-season moves and favored keeping some powder dry. It remains to be seen which areas we will add (I still see us as more likely to be buyers than sellers). It could well be that pitching will be an area we will be adding. But to me it was a reasonable gamble to take some chances on the young pitching. Every team takes some gambles, whether it be on young or old players. Given the pitching we have coming through the pipeline, I'm fine with leaning on them a bit.

[Dalyn]

You take SOME chances/gambles. Agreed. We took almost all of them. Even the one move we made, which I personally love because he's one of my favorite players, is a gamble (more than the normal gamble you take with any move).

[CyYoung31]

We are probably still going to be a good team, a contending team, but with a couple of moves we could've been a powerhouse. That's what hurts. That's why the fans are "overreacting." At least some of them.

I can get behind that.

[nsacpi]

You take SOME chances/gambles. Agreed. We took almost all of them. Even the one move we made, which I personally love because he's one of my favorite players, is a gamble (more than the normal gamble you take with any move).

didn't realize we picked up Martin this off-season

[CyYoung31]

didn't realize we picked up Martin this off-season

Didn’t realize we picked up Cody Martin either.

[Tapate50]

Didn’t realize we picked up Cody Martin either.

He’s scouting for us I think

[Dalyn]

didn't realize we picked up Martin this off-season


Didn’t realize we picked up Cody Martin either.

:cooter:

[Dalyn]

I love you guys. I also love Cody Martin.




You can't help who you love...that's all I'm saying.

[Enscheff]

I graded this off season as a D+/C- months ago, and got quite a bit of push back for it. The fact they didn't even add around the edges other than Joyce kept it at a solid D+ for me as a final grade.

The good news is the Braves got swept with their 5th, 7th and 8th best SPs on the mound against one of the best teams in the NL. When the Braves are throwing Folty, Gaus, Newk, Soroka and Teheran against teams and still losing...then it's time to panic.

[striker42]

I graded this off season as a D+/C- months ago, and got quite a bit of push back for it. The fact they didn't even add around the edges other than Joyce kept it at a solid D+ for me as a final grade.

The good news is the Braves got swept with their 5th, 7th and 8th best SPs on the mound against one of the best teams in the NL. When the Braves are throwing Folty, Gaus, Newk, Soroka and Teheran against teams and still losing...then it's time to panic.

A couple months ago I couldn't believe AA was done. I figured he was waiting until late in the offseason when players and other GM's got a little more desperate and fill the remaining holes at that time. Even as ST wore on I felt like AA was going to make a significant move or two. That AA was willing to enter the season with this roster forces me to conclude he's not a very good GM.

[tululush]

A couple months ago I couldn't believe AA was done. I figured he was waiting until late in the offseason when players and other GM's got a little more desperate and fill the remaining holes at that time. Even as ST wore on I felt like AA was going to make a significant move or two. That AA was willing to enter the season with this roster forces me to conclude he's not a very good GM.

I don't believe he is either. He made some bold and regrettable moves in Toronto, he was hell bent on getting his bff Donaldson and jumped at the chance immediately, fed us lies about money and prospects we have to bolster our roster, and then has made two separate comments about trades that 'were almost done.' IMO he either lied about the trades that were almost done, or he's an awful negotiator and failed on two separate occasions to close a deal.

[Enscheff]

So far, AA's biggest flaw seems to be that he's overly cautious.

He avoided paying $110 for something worth $100 in favor of spending $9 on something worth $10, despite having $200 sitting in his pocket. He may have gotten good value, but the $10 item probably isn't good enough when competing against the team that bought the $110 item.

Of course if JD and Acuna each hit 2 HRs this weekend and the Brave won 1-2 games the whole narrative would be different.

[CJ9]

AA on 680. First question is asking him if they sent Touki to Gwinnett to manipulate his service time.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry that these are the people talking to AA trying to get answers.

[Runnin]

So we were a little thin at pitching at the ML level and then had some injuries to key pitchers that exposed us early. It's not the end of the world. Folty, Minter and Gausman will be back soon and over the course of the season things will even out.

[striker42]

So far, AA's biggest flaw seems to be that he's overly cautious.

He avoided paying $110 for something worth $100 in favor of spending $9 on something worth $10, despite having $200 sitting in his pocket. He may have gotten good value, but the $10 item probably isn't good enough when competing against the team that bought the $110 item.

Of course if JD and Acuna each hit 2 HRs this weekend and the Brave won 1-2 games the whole narrative would be different.

If this was last year, I'd commend him on looking for value and not impairing the future. However, we now know we're at the start of a window to compete for a world series. It's okay to impair the future a bit to make the most out of the window.

Your analogy is correct. I'd extend it further. He preferred spending $9 on a pea shooter worth $10 in order to show up at a fight against someone who paid $110 for a machine gun worth $100. There are points where the opportunity cost justifies spending more than something is otherwise worth.

[Southcack77]

He avoided paying $110 for something worth $100 in favor of spending $9 on something worth $10, despite having $200 sitting in his pocket. He may have gotten good value, but the $10 item probably isn't good enough when competing against the team that bought the $110 item.



Solid analogy.

[tululush]

So far, AA's biggest flaw seems to be that he's overly cautious.

He avoided paying $110 for something worth $100 in favor of spending $9 on something worth $10, despite having $200 sitting in his pocket. He may have gotten good value, but the $10 item probably isn't good enough when competing against the team that bought the $110 item.

Of course if JD and Acuna each hit 2 HRs this weekend and the Brave won 1-2 games the whole narrative would be different.

This is spot on.

He's being overly cautious out of fear of a couple of his bad deals in Toronto (see below). While I'm glad he's not just blindly trading players, his approach of being too cautious isn't much better. He's over corrected way too much in the opposite direction. Surely there must be a happy medium and I wish he'd find it.

1. Trades Roy Halladay to the Philadelphia Phillies for Kyle Drabek, Travis d’Arnaud and Michael Taylor.

2. Trades Mike Aviles and Yan Gomes to the Cleveland Indians for Esmil Rogers.

3. Trades Noah Syndergaard, Travis d’Arnaud, John Buck and Wuilmer Becerra to the New York Mets for R.A. Dickey, Josh Thole and Mike Nickeas.

[Chico]

AA on 680. First question is asking him if they sent Touki to Gwinnett to manipulate his service time.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry that these are the people talking to AA trying to get answers.

People don't like being mislead. People don't like politician talk. McGuirk and AA were outed as bull$hitters. They're going to have some bad pub until the team starts winning or they start being more upfront and honest.

The flip side to that is if they're too honest it will only hurt them in negotiations with agents or other GMs. That's why I'm not anti-AA right now. I do think some of his BS talk is strategy.

[Chico]

So far, AA's biggest flaw seems to be that he's overly cautious.

He avoided paying $110 for something worth $100 in favor of spending $9 on something worth $10, despite having $200 sitting in his pocket. He may have gotten good value, but the $10 item probably isn't good enough when competing against the team that bought the $110 item.

Of course if JD and Acuna each hit 2 HRs this weekend and the Brave won 1-2 games the whole narrative would be different.

Every time I pull up my Amazon app I have to remind myself not to buy the cheapest option. I used to all the time and it backfired more imes than not when I had to buy a better replacement. Cheap is not always the best route

[tululush]

People don't like being mislead. People don't like politician talk. McGuirk and AA were outed as bull$hitters. They're going to have some bad pub until the team starts winning or they start being more upfront and honest.

The flip side to that is if they're too honest it will only hurt them in negotiations with agents or other GMs. That's why I'm not anti-AA right now. I do think some of his BS talk is strategy.

The BS talk is all his talk of 'well we almost completed a trade. We were 70% of the way there.' Ok dude. Quit the BS. We're not all a bunch of sheep who will believe whatever you say.

[nsacpi]

Every time I pull up my Amazon app I have to remind myself not to buy the cheapest option. I used to all the time and it backfired more imes than not when I had to buy a better replacement. Cheap is not always the best route

cheapest is not to be confused for best value

#strawman

[Enscheff]

This is spot on.

He's being overly cautious out of fear of a couple of his bad deals in Toronto (see below). While I'm glad he's not just blindly trading players, his approach of being too cautious isn't much better. He's over corrected way too much in the opposite direction. Surely there must be a happy medium and I wish he'd find it.

1. Trades Roy Halladay to the Philadelphia Phillies for Kyle Drabek, Travis d’Arnaud and Michael Taylor.

2. Trades Mike Aviles and Yan Gomes to the Cleveland Indians for Esmil Rogers.

3. Trades Noah Syndergaard, Travis d’Arnaud, John Buck and Wuilmer Becerra to the New York Mets for R.A. Dickey, Josh Thole and Mike Nickeas.

The lesson AA should have learned from his time in TOR was, "If you need a TOR SP, do not trade for a 38 year old knuckle baller and then extend him into his 40s".

He should not have sworn off making any "win now" moves at all.

[CJ9]

The lesson AA should have learned from his time in TOR was, "If you need a TOR SP, do not trade for a 38 year old knuckle baller and then extend him into his 40s".

He should not have sworn off making any "win now" moves at all.

Even hearing him on radio today talking about Realmuto, all he could talk about was that we would've only had him under team control for two years. It's insane.

[nsacpi]

The lesson AA should have learned from his time in TOR was, "If you need a TOR SP, do not trade for a 38 year old knuckle baller and then extend him into his 40s".

He should not have sworn off making any "win now" moves at all.

Donaldson on a one-year deal is a win now move if ever there was such a thing. Maybe not the one you would have made, but it is the definition of a win now move.

[tululush]

Even hearing him on radio today talking about Realmuto, all he could talk about was that we would've only had him under team control for two years. It's insane.

So ignorantly short sighted is another adjective we can label AA. Good to know. Jesus.

[Chico]

cheapest is not to be confused for best value

#strawman

Or is best value not to be confused with cheapest?

[nsacpi]

Or is best value not to be confused with cheapest?

i'm not the one equating the two

[Enscheff]

Donaldson on a one-year deal is a win now move if ever there was such a thing. Maybe not the one you would have made, but it is the definition of a win now move.

A “win now” move implies exchanging future wins for current wins because it’s the opposite of “win later”. You know that, so arguing over these semantics seems like a silly attempt to defend AA.

Signing JD was the single most risk averse impact move made by any MLB team this off season. Nobody is complaining about the JD move. Folks are complaining that it was the only impact move made when there was a need and resources available for several more.

AA was too risk averse this off season. I’m not exactly why folks are still trying to defend AA against that mistake.

[striker42]

A “win now” move implies exchanging future wins for current wins because it’s the opposite of “win later”. You know that, so arguing over these semantics seems like a silly attempt to defend AA.

Signing JD was the single most risk averse impact move made by any MLB team this off season. Nobody is complaining about the JD move. Folks are complaining that it was the only impact move made when there was a need and resources available for several more.

AA was too risk averse this off season. I’m not exactly why folks are still trying to defend AA against that mistake.


Yep. I probably wouldn't have signed JD since we have Camargo but it's a perfectly defensible move. It's the fact that AA was willing to go into the season with huge holes in the lineup rather than take a risk or two.

Some of the moves wouldn't even be risky. The lack of signing a couple middle relievers is baffling.

[nsacpi]

Seems to me AA is on the one hand being criticized for being risk averse. And on the other for being willing to roll the dice on the young pitching.

[DaneHill]

The broadcast guys last night mentioned that the Marlins were asking for Acuna in any deal for JTR. Perhaps Acuna was the 30% hump that AA couldn't get over in any negotiations, at least with JTR. I get that AA has plenty of pitching trade options available to him, but if the negotiations start with Acuna or Albies (who I'm not sold on) or Wright and can't get away from those three guys, then I get why the conversations stalled. At the same time, I have yet to see a clear example of AA being a good negotiator, or maybe I've got PTSD from Duvall.

I keep going back to perhaps AA thought he was going to have more money to play with this off-season then he actually ended up with. He clearly blew his wad way too quickly on JD and McCann as has been pointed out. Perhaps he was honestly thinking he was going to make more moves at the Winter Meetings. But then he was called away from the WM suddenly to meet with ownership. Did we ever find out wtf that was about? It was very odd. Did ownership lay into him with a hard stop on spending?

That would explain why literally the only further pittance of dollars spent the remainder of the off-season was to fill the hole in RF, and with about the cheapest option available, which seemed like AA settling in a big way. Did AA promise to make a cut to the roster if ownership would just give him a few more million to fill the hole in RF? I just find it odd that AA is supposed to be this guy who pulls unexpected trades or signings out of nowhere or signs a player within an hour of a rumor launching, and yet here he re-signed the most predictable player all off-season available for the empty hole in RF. Just really seems to me that his hands were tied in a big way since the WM and he can't say that. Was Sam Freeman a casualty of having to spend money for a RF? Though I don't know why they kept Duvall in that case, other than AA's ego.

Not to defend AA. I'm still unimpressed with his off-season and impulsive purchase of JD / McCann within 5 minutes of the World Series ending. At the same time, I really hope those two guys prove me wrong.

[striker42]

The broadcast guys last night mentioned that the Marlins were asking for Acuna in any deal for JTR. Perhaps Acuna was the 30% hump that AA couldn't get over in any negotiations, at least with JTR. I get that AA has plenty of pitching trade options available to him, but if the negotiations start with Acuna or Albies (who I'm not sold on) or Wright and can't get away from those three guys, then I get why the conversations stalled. At the same time, I have yet to see a clear example of AA being a good negotiator, or maybe I've got PTSD from Duvall.

I keep going back to perhaps AA thought he was going to have more money to play with this off-season then he actually ended up with. He clearly blew his wad way too quickly on JD and McCann as has been pointed out. Perhaps he was honestly thinking he was going to make more moves at the Winter Meetings. But then he was called away from the WM suddenly to meet with ownership. Did we ever find out wtf that was about? It was very odd. Did ownership lay into him with a hard stop on spending?

That would explain why literally the only further pittance of dollars spent the remainder of the off-season was to fill the hole in RF, and with about the cheapest option available, which seemed like AA settling in a big way. Did AA promise to make a cut to the roster if ownership would just give him a few more million to fill the hole in RF? I just find it odd that AA is supposed to be this guy who pulls unexpected trades or signings out of nowhere or signs a player within an hour of a rumor launching, and yet here he re-signed the most predictable player all off-season available for the empty hole in RF. Just really seems to me that his hands were tied in a big way since the WM and he can't say that. Was Sam Freeman a casualty of having to spend money for a RF? Though I don't know why they kept Duvall in that case, other than AA's ego.

Not to defend AA. I'm still unimpressed with his off-season and impulsive purchase of JD / McCann within 5 minutes of the World Series ending. At the same time, I really hope those two guys prove me wrong.

I hadn't heard anything about them demanding Acuna in a JTR deal. I have no doubt they asked about him but even the Fish have to know that's a silly request. I can't imagine Acuna being a sticking point.

[Enscheff]

Seems to me AA is on the one hand being criticized for being risk averse. And on the other for being willing to roll the dice on the young pitching.

You know good and well we are talking about risk as it pertains to future vs current wins. Relying on young pitching is prioritizing future wins over current wins, and I am positive you understand this fact.

The semantics you’ve chosen to argue lately are odd.

[CrazyTrain]

I really think AA had good intentions after signing JD and BM, but as the other dominoes started to fall he kept being the first loser due to being too conservative.

He's like that one dude in your fantasy auction draft that spends big out of the gate to get his guy and then sits back and waits for the value to come to him and the next thing he knows all the good players are off the board and he's left with money on the table.

[nsacpi]

You know good and well we are talking about risk as it pertains to future vs current wins. Relying on young pitching is prioritizing future wins over current wins, and I am positive you understand this fact.

The semantics you’ve chosen to argue lately are odd.

Some of it is semantics. As I understand it your complaint with AA is not about risk aversion but about the discount rate for future season wins.

As I understand it, other posters (striker for one) have a beef with AA being risk averse. In some cases the posts that you responded to were directed more to him than anyone else. Some of his arguments seem confused. For example, take this sentence:

"It's the fact that AA was willing to go into the season with huge holes in the lineup rather than take a risk or two."

Seems to me he is simultaneously criticizing AA for taking risks with young pitchers and injury prone pitchers (in earlier posts) and taking risks with holes in the lineup while urging him to take a risk or two.

Is that semantics? Not really. It is logic. Or lack thereof.

I think we can cut through some of this confusion by being honest in acknowledging that ANY plan for building a team involves taking risks. Maybe the disagreement with what AA did has to do with the particular risks he took. But any alternative to be put forward also has risks. Is it really riskiness or risk aversion that is the basis for the complaints about what AA did?

[Tapate50]

So far, AA's biggest flaw seems to be that he's overly cautious.

He avoided paying $110 for something worth $100 in favor of spending $9 on something worth $10, despite having $200 sitting in his pocket. He may have gotten good value, but the $10 item probably isn't good enough when competing against the team that bought the $110 item.

Of course if JD and Acuna each hit 2 HRs this weekend and the Brave won 1-2 games the whole narrative would be different.

Now that you have gone soft in your old age, you contribute some quality posts. Thanks and well said.

[Julio3000]

I’m generally fine with AA, although his off-season is certainly fair game for criticism.

What’s really dampened my enthusiasm for the franchise is the ownership and upper-echelon management. This has simmered for years of being a line-item on the balance sheet of a big corporation, but came to a boil for me over the course of the last few years—the move to Cobb County, the international signing goat rodeo, and the continued kicking of the can down the road as to when they’re going to start putting money into the product on the field.

I think last year’s success papered over a lot of cracks, and to a degree inoculated management against criticism. I could very well be wrong, and hope that I am, but right now it feels like we’re going to burn another couple of years of cheap service time while paying down Battery debt.

[Enscheff]

Some of it is semantics. As I understand it your complaint with AA is not about risk aversion but about the discount rate for future season wins.

As I understand it, other posters (striker for one) have a beef with AA being risk averse. In some cases the posts that you responded to were directed more to him than anyone else. Some of his arguments seem confused. For example, take this sentence:

"It's the fact that AA was willing to go into the season with huge holes in the lineup rather than take a risk or two."

Seems to me he is simultaneously criticizing AA for taking risks with young pitchers and injury prone pitchers (in earlier posts) and taking risks with holes in the lineup while urging him to take a risk or two.

Is that semantics? Not really. It is logic. Or lack thereof.

I think we can cut through some of this confusion by being honest in acknowledging that ANY plan for building a team involves taking risks. Maybe the disagreement with what AA did has to do with the particular risks he took. But any alternative to be put forward also has risks. Is it really riskiness or risk aversion that is the basis for the complaints about what AA did?

Striker very clearly used “risk” in the same sense I use it...risking future wins to buy current wins. He claimed AA left holes in the roster rather than risking future assets to fill them.

Again, arguing what folks mean when they say “risk” is just arguing semantics. It is pretty clear we are talking about risking future wins in an attempt to buy current wins.

AA doesn’t want to risk Anderson becoming the next Syndergaard, or risk tying cash up into the next Kemp, so we are stuck watching value purchases. I think it’s clear AA put too high a premium on potential future wins, and I call it being risk averse. Call it whatever you want, but the idea is pretty clear and consistent throughout the entire discussion among several people.

Arguing over what term is being used isn’t advancing the discussion at all, and when discussions move into arguing over semantics is when I typically just bow out.

[nsacpi]

Striker very clearly used “risk” in the same sense I use it...risking future wins to buy current wins. He claimed AA left holes in the roster rather than risking future assets to fill them.

Again, arguing what folks mean when they say “risk” is just arguing semantics. It is pretty clear we are talking about risking future wins in an attempt to buy current wins.

AA doesn’t want to risk Anderson becoming the next Syndergaard, or risk tying cash up into the next Kemp, so we are stuck watching value purchases. I think it’s clear AA put too high a premium on potential future wins, and I call it being risk averse.

Arguing over what term is being used isn’t advancing the discussion at all, and when discussions move into arguing over semantics is when I typically just bow out.

ok...as I understand then you and striker are criticizing him for not being willing to trade future wins for 2019 wins...is that fair

[striker42]

Some of it is semantics. As I understand it your complaint with AA is not about risk aversion but about the discount rate for future season wins.

As I understand it, other posters (striker for one) have a beef with AA being risk averse. In some cases the posts that you responded to were directed more to him than anyone else. Some of his arguments seem confused. For example, take this sentence:

"It's the fact that AA was willing to go into the season with huge holes in the lineup rather than take a risk or two."

Seems to me he is simultaneously criticizing AA for taking risks with young pitchers and injury prone pitchers (in earlier posts) and taking risks with holes in the lineup while urging him to take a risk or two.

Is that semantics? Not really. It is logic. Or lack thereof.

I think we can cut through some of this confusion by being honest in acknowledging that ANY plan for building a team involves taking risks. Maybe the disagreement with what AA did has to do with the particular risks he took. But any alternative to be put forward also has risks. Is it really riskiness or risk aversion that is the basis for the complaints about what AA did?

Whenever a GM makes a move, there's the risk that they're making things worse. It's that risk that AA appears averse to. AA has been so hesitant to make a move that might be overpaying, he ends up with an end result that is likely worse than if he had just taken the risks.

Imagine a squirrel caught in the middle of the highway. It doesn't know whether to dash left or right. Either direction carries risk. Being so afraid of the danger presented by left or right, the squirrel stays where it is and gets run over. The fear of running into a worse situation led to a guaranteed bad situation. That's the problem we're talking about.

[nsacpi]

Whenever a GM makes a move, there's the risk that they're making things worse. It's that risk that AA appears averse to. AA has been so hesitant to make a move that might be overpaying, he ends up with an end result that is likely worse than if he had just taken the risks.

Imagine a squirrel caught in the middle of the highway. It doesn't know whether to dash left or right. Either direction carries risk. Being so afraid of the danger presented by left or right, the squirrel stays where it is and gets run over. The fear of running into a worse situation led to a guaranteed bad situation. That's the problem we're talking about.

so your criticism is deer (or squirrel) in headlights syndrome...or paralysis due to past trauma from his tenure in Toronto

[Enscheff]

ok...as I understand then you and striker are criticizing him for not being willing to trade future wins for 2019 wins...is that fair

That’s literally what everyone has been criticizing him for over the last 10 pages. The contextual meaning of “risk” has been well established for weeks and months as this discussion has dragged on. Questioning what everyone is talking about seems a bit silly now.

The only variation from anyone in the entire discussion is how many future wins he should have cashed in for 2019 wins.

[striker42]

so your criticism is deer (or squirrel) in headlights syndrome...or paralysis due to past trauma from his tenure in Toronto

eh, more being paralyzed by the prospect of overpaying and costing us future wins. The status quo is a bad roster (squirrel in the middle of the road). Signing a starter is to the left but that way might be overpaying and costing us future wins. To the right is trading for an OF, but what if the trade doesn't pan out and it ends up hurting us?

In the end he stays with the status quo and gets run over.

[Southcack77]

eh, more being paralyzed by the prospect of overpaying and costing us future wins. The status quo is a bad roster (squirrel in the middle of the road). Signing a starter is to the left but that way might be overpaying and costing us future wins. To the right is trading for an OF, but what if the trade doesn't pan out and it ends up hurting us?

In the end he stays with the status quo and gets run over.



I do not know why you folks need the decision to have been a result of psychological damage or maximizing bonuses, or toadying to his superiors.

What's wrong with it being his dispassionate analysis of what was best for the baseball team?

You still get to disagree with that, but I guess it isn't really as satisfying as alleging a character flaw?

[nsacpi]

I do not know why you folks need the decision to have been a result of psychological damage or maximizing bonuses, or toadying to his superiors.

What's wrong with it being his dispassionate analysis of what was best for the baseball team?

You still get to disagree with that, but I guess it isn't really as satisfying as alleging a character flaw?


the pseudo-psychoanalytical and conspiratorial angles are more in tune with our zeitgeist

[striker42]

I do not know why you folks need the decision to have been a result of psychological damage or maximizing bonuses, or toadying to his superiors.

What's wrong with it being his dispassionate analysis of what was best for the baseball team?

You still get to disagree with that, but I guess it isn't really as satisfying as alleging a character flaw?

Honestly, it's far more generous to AA to attribute his failure to fix certain holes on aversion to risking future wins or just a hesitancy to commit and limit his options. If he honestly believes this is the best possible team, the problem is far worse than any of us think.

[nsacpi]

Honestly, it's far more generous to AA to attribute his failure to fix certain holes on aversion to risking future wins or just a hesitancy to commit and limit his options. If he honestly believes this is the best possible team, the problem is far worse than any of us think.

that's mighty generous of you to spin it that way

alternative possibility: he sees no urgency to cash in 2020 or 2021 wins for 2019 wins and prefers to increase the win total over the entire horizon

[CyYoung31]

I do not know why you folks need the decision to have been a result of psychological damage or maximizing bonuses, or toadying to his superiors.

What's wrong with it being his dispassionate analysis of what was best for the baseball team?

You still get to disagree with that, but I guess it isn't really as satisfying as alleging a character flaw?

This.

[Hudson2]

that's mighty generous of you to spin it that way

alternative possibility: he sees no urgency to cash in 2020 or 2021 wins for 2019 wins and prefers to increase the win total over the entire horizon

That’s the double edged sword here. You don’t keep putting off wins to the next year then the next. FF will be needing another contract and all the young guys will be getting more expensive. The future isn’t guaranteed so play for now and try to trade as little of the future away as possible. We don’t know what prospects will pan out and which ones will make it so it’s a gamble. 2019 should have been a year to slowly start pushing in your chips to win now and that just didn’t happen. And if guys like Anderson, Wright, Touki, Riley etc have a really down year then we have taken an even bigger step back bc we have less capital to trade. And a few of those guys will flame out unfortunately.

[thewupk]

this got quiet after the Braves 8-0 win

[striker42]

that's mighty generous of you to spin it that way

alternative possibility: he sees no urgency to cash in 2020 or 2021 wins for 2019 wins and prefers to increase the win total over the entire horizon

That would be an extremely bad decision. The window is open and there's no guarantee it's going to stay open. You don't delay when your team is good enough to compete. Especially not when you're a mid-market team like Atlanta who can't lengthen their window by spending huge amounts of cash. His hesitancy to fill holes could end up costing us a year in our window of competition. That's a huge problem.

[bravesfanMatt]

this got quiet after the Braves 8-0 win

It’s sort of went quiet before the win to be honest. But unfortunately even that win last night has the stench of cubs ineptness slathered all over it. To me that game feels like it could’ve been very different if we played a team who had their crap together

[nsacpi]

Cubs are a good team going through a bad stretch. There are probably several Cubs equivalents to this thread. They had a quiet off-season too.

[thewupk]

It’s sort of went quiet before the win to be honest. But unfortunately even that win last night has the stench of cubs ineptness slathered all over it. To me that game feels like it could’ve been very different if we played a team who had their crap together

Braves had some help but they will score runs. To me the biggest issue with the Cubs last night was them letting Newk get away with his terrible control yet again. A 9 BB/9 with a 429 BABIP and 0 runs? Cubs let him off the hook a lot.

[bravesfanMatt]

Braves had some help but they will score runs. To me the biggest issue with the Cubs last night was them letting Newk get away with his terrible control yet again. A 9 BB/9 with a 429 BABIP and 0 runs? Cubs let him off the hook a lot.

Many will look and laugh at the defense. And rightfully so. But I 100% agree with you. Not slapping Newk around last night would have pissed me off more than the crappy D if I were a smelly cubs fan. There were guys who bailed him out by swinging at pitches out of the zone. Newk was far worse than his final line indicates.

[striker42]

this got quiet after the Braves 8-0 win

For me, the results of the early season aren't really a factor. The season could not have started yet and this thread would still work. The issue is the roster, not the record. Shane Carle and Luke Jackson taking up legitimate pen spots, rookies starting our second and third games of the season, failure to upgrade the OF, etc.

The team could end up winning the division and it wouldn't make the offseason good. This roster could have been much better.

[Tapate50]

Is there any possibility that Heyward is who we were in talks to acquire? With the cubs kicking in significant salary?

There were multiple reports they were trying to figure a way to get Harper in the fold this offseason. Epstein told them a few times don't make a call without them being in the mix.

What is Heyward worth right now as he is... He a 2 war guy pretty reliably for the next 4 seasons?

[50PoundHead]

Is there any possibility that Heyward is who we were in talks to acquire? With the cubs kicking in significant salary?

There were multiple reports they were trying to figure a way to get Harper in the fold this offseason. Epstein told them a few times don't make a call without them being in the mix.

What is Heyward worth right now as he is... He a 2 war guy?

Premier defensive player who seems to have turned into the world's biggest singles hitter. I don't know what that is worth, but the Cubs obviously still believe in him to some extent.

[bravesfanMatt]

I think the big salary trade was a lie to show fans he isn’t afraid to spend

[thewupk]

Is there any possibility that Heyward is who we were in talks to acquire? With the cubs kicking in significant salary?

There were multiple reports they were trying to figure a way to get Harper in the fold this offseason. Epstein told them a few times don't make a call without them being in the mix.

What is Heyward worth right now as he is... He a 2 war guy pretty reliably for the next 4 seasons?

I wouldn't even call him that. He was finally a league average hitter last year after two Swanson type seasons offensively. Besides that his defense slipped last year and he's at an age where that probably isn't a fluke and the days of him being a premier defender are likely over. He's worth about what Neck got paid this year.

[thewupk]

For me, the results of the early season aren't really a factor. The season could not have started yet and this thread would still work. The issue is the roster, not the record. Shane Carle and Luke Jackson taking up legitimate pen spots, rookies starting our second and third games of the season, failure to upgrade the OF, etc.

The team could end up winning the division and it wouldn't make the offseason good. This roster could have been much better.

Doubtful it could have been much better. All the issues you cited are due to several injuries all at once on the pitching front.

The only legit criticism for the Braves off season is coming into the year with Neck as our starting RF. And even with that the Braves are going to be a good hitting team imo.

It's time for the Braves massive stockpile of pitching prospects to pay dividends by producing in Atlanta.

[Dalyn]

I wish someone would make Heyward take a step toward the plate. Just to see what happens. He gets farther and farther away every year, it seems (since getting hit in the face).

[nsacpi]

It's time for the Braves massive stockpile of pitching prospects to pay dividends by producing in Atlanta.

It is worth keeping in mind that some of these kids have fairly limited experience at the upper levels:

Wilson 3 AAA starts
Wright 4 AAA starts
Touki 8 AAA starts
Soroka 5 AAA starts

It won't hurt to let them marinate a little in AAA. Say 10-15 more starts.

Fried has a bit more--13 AAA starts. I'm more comfortable with him holding down the fifth spot in the rotation. Experience isn't everything but Fried looks more ready to me.

[thewupk]

It is worth keeping in mind that some of these kids have fairly limited experience at the upper levels:

Wilson 3 AAA starts
Wright 4 AAA starts
Touki 8 AAA starts
Soroka 5 AAA starts

It won't hurt to let them marinate a little in AAA. Say 10-15 more starts.

Fried has a bit more--13 AAA starts. I'm more comfortable with him holding down the fifth spot in the rotation. Experience isn't everything but Fried looks more ready to me.

I would have Fried in over Wilson but I can understand the logic of 3 righties against Phillies. Wilson was here because of absolute necessity.

Things will look better once Folty and Gausman come back. I'm not sure on Soroka's timeline for return but I'd expect him to get some games in AAA anyways before he comes back up.

If everyone is healthy (big assumption) I would expect to see a rotation of Folty/Gausman/Soroka/Julio/Newk with the possibilities of Wright and Fried replacing Julio and Newk due to performance. Also could see an addition at the deadline for a front end starter if that opportunity presents itself.

Either way I think we will be fine in the rotation once we get some people back.

[nsacpi]

I would have Fried in over Wilson but I can understand the logic of 3 righties against Phillies. Wilson was here because of absolute necessity.

Things will look better once Folty and Gausman come back. I'm not sure on Soroka's timeline for return but I'd expect him to get some games in AAA anyways before he comes back up.

If everyone is healthy (big assumption) I would expect to see a rotation of Folty/Gausman/Soroka/Julio/Newk with the possibilities of Wright and Fried replacing Julio and Newk due to performance. Also could see an addition at the deadline for a front end starter if that opportunity presents itself.

Either way I think we will be fine in the rotation once we get some people back.

The starting pitching should be ok. I'm bullish on Folty, Gausman, Julion and Fried. Newk is a concern, but I think he will be given at least 5 more starts.

The pen is more problematic at this point. I thought we would be ok going into spring training. But there have been some surprising developments. Sam Freeman released, Winkler optioned to AAA, and O'Day out for what looks like an extended period. Parsons and Sobotka are worth a look. I expected we would make some mid-season pen acquisitions and that seems even more likely now.

[CrazyTrain]

Finally AA did something right.