Scandals

[57Brave]

Willing to risk being called an Obam-ite for trying to infuse a spec of reality into the conversation


Yesterday evening, CBS finally acknowledged that its blockbuster "report" documenting "what really happened in Benghazi" was actually built on a foundation of lies, revealing once again the utter absurdity of the GOP's Benghazi scandal machine—and it didn't take long for Rep. Darrell Issa, the Republican chairman of the House Government Oversight Committee which has led the Benghazi investigation, to respond:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57611428/60-minutes-reviewing-account-of-morgan-jones-on-benghazi/

[CK86]

Benghazi is a losing "scandal," said so since the beginning. Should've waited for the facts and mourned the dead and left it at that.

I'm much more interested in the Obamacare debacle and the now secret undoing of sanctions against Iran. I'm also quite interested in how the NSA scandal and handling of Syria has managed to completely destroy Obama's credibility at home and especially abroad. His second term has been awful.

[57Brave]

"handling of Syria"

?

[CK86]

"handling of Syria"

?

Have you already forgotten the Syria debacle? I mean, aside from wanting to fight on the side of al-qaeda after Syria "crossed the red line"? What about wanting to go to war so badly that the only reason they didn't is due to the outcry of the American people. He and John Kerry were hellbent on going to war in a conflict that had nothing to do with us. Then he backtracked after Russia negotiated a way out. I also liked the administration's idea to arm al-qaeda, that seems like a stellar plan...

[Julio3000]

Have you already forgotten the Syria debacle? I mean, aside from wanting to fight on the side of al-qaeda after Syria "crossed the red line"? What about wanting to go to war so badly that the only reason they didn't is due to the outcry of the American people. He and John Kerry were hellbent on going to war in a conflict that had nothing to do with us. Then he backtracked after Russia negotiated a way out. I also liked the administration's idea to arm al-qaeda, that seems like a stellar plan...

You seem to have what sounds like a very skewed take on that situation.

[Julio3000]

Benghazi is a losing "scandal," said so since the beginning. Should've waited for the facts and mourned the dead and left it at that.

I'm much more interested in the Obamacare debacle and the now secret undoing of sanctions against Iran. I'm also quite interested in how the NSA scandal and handling of Syria has managed to completely destroy Obama's credibility at home and especially abroad. His second term has been awful.

Man, quotes around "scandal?" I'm impressed.

So you don't agree with Steve King that it's Watergate plus Iran-Contra times ten? That's pretty much an exact quote, btw. How about with the other Republican reps who said it was "Worse than Watergate," without ever really articulating what exactly had happened to make it so bad. How about with the 91% of "very conservative" people in a PPP poll who agreed that it was the worst political scandal in American history?

[CK86]

Man, quotes around "scandal?" I'm impressed.

So you don't agree with Steve King that it's Watergate plus Iran-Contra times ten? That's pretty much an exact quote, btw. How about with the other Republican reps who said it was "Worse than Watergate," without ever really articulating what exactly had happened to make it so bad. How about with the 91% of "very conservative" people in a PPP poll who agreed that it was the worst political scandal in American history?

I've consistently said that Benghazi should be something we learned from, not somethif we politicize. It's a fake "scandal" caused by people who wanted so badly for a real Obama scandal.

Benghazi should be learned from. We should find out exactly what happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Much like I was against politicising the 9/11 tragedy (see Rudy Guiliani), I believe Benghazi falls under the same principle.

I wouldn't mind being shown the error of my beliefs on Syria though. I'm staunchly anti-war and nothing the administration did shows me they're anything but Bush's 3rd and 4th term. But that's me, feel free to show me where I am wrong and I'm open to changing my opinion on it.

I'm not like Steve King or any of the idiots in Washington who are so hyper partisan that they refuse to reevaluate the situation.

[57Brave]

In Syria we've achieved the outcome we desired without ever firing a shot or setting a foot on Syrian soil. Did I miss a war or conflict? Or even a police action !!

Bush invaded two countries! One as a knee jerk reaction to 9/11 and the other on ... somebody help me here.
So how you see this as evidence of Bush's 3rd and 4th -- the math doesn't work

Perhaps you didn't like the media play by play of carrot and stick diplomacy - but the results are the best anyone could have hoped for

[CK86]

Expanded foreign surveillance by the NSA which led to distrust among our allies? That sounds like Bush.

Obama and Kerry were pushing us into war. They fortunately got talked off the cliff by the international community. It was a conflict we had no business being involved in. I'm ecstatic that Syria is disarming but I'm still uneasy about arming the rebels who have been taken over by al-qaeda. Had they gone through with another pointless war, it would've been just like Bush.

[57Brave]

The expanded surveillance, as we know it, began in 2001-02 if not sooner. The head of the NSA is on record saying there is no way the President would have known the extent ... shoot, it's possible the NSA per se doesn't grasp the extent of their net

Yes it is terrible but, where were you in the early 2000's when the Patriot Act (which Bush in fact was opposed !) or even in 2005 when it was first revealed how deep this went. Being 2013 I feel naive for getting so upset in 2005

Besides, I logged on to Google today, ordered a prescription refill today on line, bought an mp3 download from Amazon , have a credit rating, past IRS troubles and a penchant for late 19th century porn ... At this point we're feeling certain my life is pretty much an open book
////

Oh yeah, Tapate follows me around the net looking for an argument

[Julio3000]

I've consistently said that Benghazi should be something we learned from, not somethif we politicize. It's a fake "scandal" caused by people who wanted so badly for a real Obama scandal.

Benghazi should be learned from. We should find out exactly what happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Much like I was against politicising the 9/11 tragedy (see Rudy Guiliani), I believe Benghazi falls under the same principle.

I wouldn't mind being shown the error of my beliefs on Syria though. I'm staunchly anti-war and nothing the administration did shows me they're anything but Bush's 3rd and 4th term. But that's me, feel free to show me where I am wrong and I'm open to changing my opinion on it.

I'm not like Steve King or any of the idiots in Washington who are so hyper partisan that they refuse to reevaluate the situation.

Hey, I think that's great. I agree entirely about what we should take away from Benghazi. I also agree entirely with this part,

It's a fake "scandal" caused by people who wanted so badly for a real Obama scandal.

What I would quibble with about your Syria statements:

Your certainty that we were committed to war and were only swayed by public opinion. I don't know that there's any evidence to support this.

That the conflict had nothing to do with us. As soon as chemical weapons were used, it did, at least to some degree.

The statement that we are arming al-Qaeda, and planning on intervening on their "side."

Is Israel also aligned with al-Qaeda, since they may at times appear to be nominally on the same "side" in the Syrian conflict?

Look, I also think we ought to be very, very careful about providing military aid and training to rebel groups and insurgencies. Short form, I think the bar for doing that should be VERY high. We've seen a variety of negative ways that those chickens can come home to roost. But your statement is not correct.

[BedellBrave]

Thank the Lord for Putin.

[yeezus]

I wouldn't mind being shown the error of my beliefs on Syria though. I'm staunchly anti-war and nothing the administration did shows me they're anything but Bush's 3rd and 4th term. But that's me, feel free to show me where I am wrong and I'm open to changing my opinion on it.


Other than, you know, NOT actually going to war.
Which Bush almost certainly does, btw.
Not sure what you're complaining about. It was handled well.

[BedellBrave]

Oh how soon we forget Libya, Yemen and the expansion of the Drone war in Pakistan.

And I'm really not sure I'd claim Syria was "handled well."

[57Brave]

What, for conversations sake would you call handled well ??

[BedellBrave]

Well I don't think it would have included drawing lines in the sand that you then ignore. Better to have kept the public pronouncements not so cowboyish.

[yeezus]

Oh how soon we forget Libya, Yemen and the expansion of the Drone war in Pakistan.

And I'm really not sure I'd claim Syria was "handled well."

How so? How can people complain about Syria?
Yes, he may have wanted to go there and do something - but he listened to what others wanted and tried a different route. And we didn't go.
I can't believe some people, who didn't want to go, would complain about this...even though we didn't go.

[BedellBrave]

Being happy we aren't immersed in yet another conflict with no discernible end doesn't mean that one shouldn't critique POTUS' handling of all the matter to this point. Why should it?


Here's some helpful reading (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/world/middleeast/obamas-uncertain-path-amid-syria-bloodshed.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&). I don't think "handled well" is apt.

[bravesnumberone]

CBS never makes stuff up....right, Dan Rather?

[57Brave]

Well I don't think it would have included drawing lines in the sand that you then ignore. Better to have kept the public pronouncements not so cowboyish.

In the end Syria disarmed -- correct?
that was the goal -- however we got there -- right?

I get the feeling you are arguing the difference between a running touchdown and a passing touchdown.
this is more evidence of how Obamas opposition cant take yes for an answer. Notice I didnt say enemies!

[BedellBrave]

No, not totally.

Assad is still in power.

And as I said, and as the NYT articles attests, "handling well" isn't apt.

[57Brave]

Bedell you've joined the restless mob of fist shakers!

Now that you've made clear you don't think Syria was "handled well" - and the NYT article was informative on how the sausage of foreign policy is ground
perhaps you are now ready to tell us your definition of a "handled well" Syria.

Or you can just shake your fist at Obama

[BedellBrave]

See 57, these conversations with you never go anywhere. You'll never be satisfied with an answer that doesn't fit into your box... Let's just leave it.

[57Brave]

Syria disarmed -we fired no shots - lost no lives - spent no money -- avoided another Middle East entanglement --
Those are the facts --and you can post articles until you are blue in the face over how we got to there and how messy it was but, the facts are still the facts

Like I said it seems you are complaining because the TD was scored running the ball instead of passing

//////////////////

Maybe if you go back to Fast and Furious? At least the facts there are a little more obscure and the trail a little more attention span intensive!!
because this (and those) all seems nothing more than a vehicle to embarrass Obama. I remember when scandals involved whores and drinking or adultry or bribery or other juicy topics -- in the age of Issa and College REpublicans it is nothing more than half baked little reseaarched fishing expeditions called scandals.

Call me when it involves a dead woman or a live boy

[sturg33]

Obama was so desperate to go to war it was scary. Thankfully, public opposition was historically high.

I'm sure they will find some excuse to go - even if they have to create it themselves.

Wanna talk about fast and furious or NSA?

[yeezus]

Obama was so desperate to go to war it was scary. Thankfully, public opposition was historically high.

I'm sure they will find some excuse to go - even if they have to create it themselves.

Wanna talk about fast and furious or NSA?

So desperate that, in the end, we didn't go.
Again, you may criticize him for wanting to go. That's fine, and I agree. As someone who isn't staunchly on either "side," I didn't want to go at all, and was disappointed Obama wanted to. But in the end, we didn't. Everything everyone wanted was accomplished, and yet we still find a way to criticize? Just seems like a bit of a reach.

[sturg33]

So desperate that, in the end, we didn't go.
Again, you may criticize him for wanting to go. That's fine, and I agree. As someone who isn't staunchly on either "side," I didn't want to go at all, and was disappointed Obama wanted to. But in the end, we didn't. Everything everyone wanted was accomplished, and yet we still find a way to criticize? Just seems like a bit of a reach.

If Obama had gotten his way it would have been a disaster. yes, I will absolutely criticize him for wanting to put us in a terrible position. Thank goodness fgor the American people and Vladimir Putin

[yeezus]

If Obama had gotten his way it would have been a disaster. yes, I will absolutely criticize him for wanting to put us in a terrible position. Thank goodness fgor the American people and Vladimir Putin

Like I said, criticize for his desires. But the results are exactly what you wanted, so what is the problem? He didn't do what he wanted to do, and listened to what other people wanted. Can't say that's a bad thing, as the desired results were there in the end.

[sturg33]

I'd rather my President have the proper perspective to begin with, rather than being humiliated and shamed into it.

[yeezus]

I'd rather my President have the proper perspective to begin with, rather than being humiliated and shamed into it.

Me too. But, alls well that ends well to me. I got my desired outcome. Hard for me to complain too much.

[sturg33]

Me too. But, alls well that ends well to me. I got my desired outcome. Hard for me to complain too much.

So if a murderer is planning to shoot someone but is stopped by the cops before he does, we should applaud the guy?

[The Chosen One]

What if Obama made a PR push to go into war desperately, because he knew the main GOP and public would be against it, and used it to waiver public support so he wouldn't go into war?

[sturg33]

What if Obama made a PR push to go into war desperately, because he knew the main GOP and public would be against it, and used it to waiver public support so he wouldn't go into war?

what if Obama believed in free markets and individual liberty?

Why waste our time asking such silly questions?

[The Chosen One]

what if Obama believed in free markets and individual liberty?

Why waste our time asking such silly questions?

It's not a silly question.

You've never heard of politicians using political ploys to ramp up public support?

Kind of like how the GOP uses the Tea Party to ramp up public support to go against anything the President does or proposes so they can still pretend to look conservative?

[sturg33]

It's not a silly question.

You've never heard of politicians using political ploys to ramp up public support?

Kind of like how the GOP uses the Tea Party to ramp up public support to go against anything the President does or proposes so they can still pretend to look conservative?

LOL... sure dude. Obama was dying to stay out of war. He just needed the international community and american public to THINK he wanted to go so that he didn't.

[The Chosen One]

LOL... sure dude. Obama was dying to stay out of war. He just needed the international community and american public to THINK he wanted to go so that he didn't.

If you think Obama is as much of a genius when it comes to destroying this country and poop on the constitution, I'm surprised you don't give him enough credit for being as much of a genius when it comes to PR moves.

The Democrats held the fiscal cliff negotiations hostage so the rich could get taxed more, while the Republicans held the fiscal cliff negotiations hostage by saying taxes on all Americans would go up when really they were protecting the rich.

It's spin spin spin.

President has had more talk show, radio show, presidential press conferences, presidential addresses, etc than any other President, plus he's the best ever politician at using social media to its potential.

I have no clue why you don't think President wasn't just puppeteering the Syria thing. McCain and Graham were the only major GOP players who wanted us to go into Syria, and lord knows if he publicly said NO, then the GOP would've rammed him hard for not believing in American Exceptionalism and protecting the innocent people around the world speech. What happened when he said lets go into Syria? Tea Party, and mainstream America said NO NO NO it's a waste of money. There's not even much oil there like Libya.

I knew he wasn't serious about Syria when they crossed that dotted line 20 times in the last 3 years and nothing was done.

[sturg33]

Seems to me like no matter what he does, you will spin it as a positive

[The Chosen One]

Seems to me like no matter what he does, you will spin it as a positive

Uh no.

I like President, but like 50 I have my reservations. I don't like that he won't give Snowden some type of clemency.

Yet I also realize Obama is a puppet to the military-industrial complex.

[sturg33]

Uh no.

I like President, but like 50 I have my reservations. I don't like that he won't give Snowden some type of clemency.

Yet I also realize Obama is a puppet to the military-industrial complex.

Which is why I have a hard time believing your theory

[The Chosen One]

Which is why I have a hard time believing your theory

Understood, but if there's one domain Obama is particularly strong in, it's PR.

Most aggressive PR President ever.

[yeezus]

So if a murderer is planning to shoot someone but is stopped by the cops before he does, we should applaud the guy?

If someone wants to kill someone, consults friends and family who strongly urge against it, and the person ends up not doing it - does that make them a murderer still?

[sturg33]

If someone wants to kill someone, consults friends and family who strongly urge against it, and the person ends up not doing it - does that make them a murderer still?

Nope. Did I say Obama was?

The point his, I'm not going to celebrate his lust for war

[BedellBrave]

1. Syria disarmed -we fired no shots - lost no lives - 2. spent no money -- avoided another Middle East entanglement --
Those are the facts --and you can post articles until you are blue in the face over how we got to there and how messy it was but, the facts are still the facts

Like I said it seems you are complaining because the TD was scored running the ball instead of passing

//////////////////

Maybe if you go back to Fast and Furious? At least the facts there are a little more obscure and the trail a little more attention span intensive!!
because this (and those) all seems nothing more than a vehicle to embarrass Obama. I remember when scandals involved whores and drinking or adultry or bribery or other juicy topics -- in the age of Issa and College REpublicans it is nothing more than half baked little reseaarched fishing expeditions called scandals.

Call me when it involves a dead woman or a live boy

1. No, not entirely.

2. Lie, we've spent plenty and no doubt continue to do so.

[BedellBrave]

If Obama had gotten his way it would have been a disaster. yes, I will absolutely criticize him for wanting to put us in a terrible position. Thank goodness fgor the American people and Vladimir Putin


Don't forget the British baling on him.

[57Brave]

1. No, not entirely.

2. Lie, we've spent plenty and no doubt continue to do so.

context? links?

even so -disagreeing with someone or how they conduct their business does not constitute a scandal -- which is how this monologue began over Syria.
NSA is not a scandal -- Fast and Furious was not a scandal -- Benghazi was not a scandal -- Obamas place of birth was not a scandal. Michelle giving talks about child obesity was not a scandal. etc etc etc

In other news, Sarah Palin once likened the allocation of frequent flier miles to slavery.
Do we have a pattern here or what?

[sturg33]

What is a scandal, in your mind? If fast and furious and NSA are not scandal,s what are?

[BedellBrave]

context? links?




I've already provided you one - we trained/train rebels (CIA) and that costs money. And Syria certainly hasn't been disarmed - we haven't even gotten all the chemicals used in their arms program.

[57Brave]

Read the NYT article , & as news should be, it offered no Syrian alternative,
That was what I was asking you -- what were realistic alternatives?
What would constitute "handled well" in your eyes -- that had a snowballs chance of happening

To my mind our choices were worse,worser and worst and we actually came out with not so bad

[sturg33]

What is a scandal, in your mind? If fast and furious and NSA are not scandal,s what are?

...

[Julio3000]

what if Obama believed in free markets and individual liberty?

Why waste our time asking such silly questions?

Free markets. Nice.

What elected US official believes in free markets? Seriously. Give me a name.

[Julio3000]

No, not totally.

Assad is still in power.

And as I said, and as the NYT articles attests, "handling well" isn't apt.

I agree that "handling well" isn't exactly apt.

I would also like to know what a "well-handled" Syrian situation would look like.

[weso1]

Admin stumbled and bumbled their way into the Syrian resolution.

Obama sux, but he's a winner. The thing about winners is that luck is often on their side. Maybe it's finally run out with the healthcare fiasco.

[BedellBrave]

I agree that "handling well" isn't exactly apt.

I would also like to know what a "well-handled" Syrian situation would look like.


Julio, I think a better approach would have been to have resisted the sort of drawing lines in the sands statements that POTUS made (rather Bushesque imho). Publicly to have referred to the countries in that region - namely Turkey and Israel - and to the international community. Then behind the scenes to have sought to settle on an approach early on that either went in full-bore with arming, preparing and supporting the better element of the Assad resistance that had the greater influence at that time and to have done so in conjunction with Jordan, Turkey, and Arab Gulf countries or to working more definitively with Russia to influence the Assad regime. I'm inclined to the latter due to the measure of protection that the Assad's and the Alawites provided to the numerous minorities in Syria (including Christians and Druzes) and due to this approach being the cheaper and more non-interventist option. POTUS's delay only allowed the more radical jihadists to grow in influence in the resistance and thus endangering the minority communities and giving the Assad regime more opportunity and a rationale to use more despicable means against the resistance. Beating the war drum and dithering made a bad situation even worse. He combined both the worst of Bush and the worst of Obama in that track.

[57Brave]

I'm slow to judge foreign diplomacy. So much is posturing, "foreign entanglements" hidden behind the scenes.

Can't argue with your points / you could be exactly right but we don't know.
We don't know if the story in NYT was planted (not saying it was) , we don't know how involved Putin has been etc etc ... I expect 10-20 yrs before we do know exactly what happened.

Shoot we didnt learn until yesterday there was a $600M stadium being built and our beloved Braves were moving. This had been in the works for -- how long? Right under our noses
Which is why I say -- the situation in Syria -with what we know- came out as good as could be expected

[sturg33]

What is a scandal, in your mind? If fast and furious and NSA are not scandal,s what are?

...

[57Brave]

The fact that no one from Wall Street was put in jail over the financial collapse of 2008

The fact we even went to war in Iraq over info that was baked and no one went to prison

Abu Grahib

Black Sox

The fact that Dan Rather was fired by CBS and Laura Logan wasn't. After all, Rather had it right
//////

Not sure how F&F or NSA qualify as scandals?
Both are policies instituted by the federal government for specific reasons. F&F was intended to trap drug or gun runners (I think) and NSA was a reaction to 9/11 and that whole connect the dots thing. The fact you (or I) disagree with the policies does not constitute a scandal.

I would think a scandal would involve a conspiracy of some sort. Like Fatty Arbuckle conspired with someone way back when. Or, Ingrid Bergman conspired with that Rossellini man to co-habitate and have children out of marriage was "scandalous"
What a stupid question

[sturg33]

The fact that no one from Wall Street was put in jail over the financial collapse of 2008

The fact we even went to war in Iraq over info that was baked and no one went to prison

Abu Grahib

Black Sox

The fact that Dan Rather was fired by CBS and Laura Logan wasn't. After all, Rather had it right
//////

Not sure how F&F or NSA qualify as scandals?
Both are policies instituted by the federal government for specific reasons. F&F was intended to trap drug or gun runners (I think) and NSA was a reaction to 9/11 and that whole connect the dots thing. The fact you (or I) disagree with the policies does not constitute a scandal.

I would think a scandal would involve a conspiracy of some sort. Like Fatty Arbuckle conspired with someone way back when. Or, Ingrid Bergman conspired with that Rossellini man to co-habitate and have children out of marriage was "scandalous"
What a stupid question


Hold up a second... I need to make sure you understand what I mean when I say "NSA." So let me be clear...

I'm talking about the government spying on hundreds of millions of Americans' phone calls and emails... As well as foreign leaders. While the director of the NSA is under oathe saying "We're not spying on Americans." I mean, Richard Nixon got impeached for much, much less

[57Brave]

Richard Nixon was impeached for defying a congressional order . The 1971 Christmas bombings of Cambodia.

How long has the NSA been spying on Americans?
My guess is the intelligence/law enforcement community under the guise of NSA or BSA has been wiretapping and intimately spying on American citizens for years before the Patriot Act. Ever read of Martin Luther King or J Edgar Hoover?

Patriot Act went into affect -----when?
The program of Fast and Furious began ---- when?

I would think the issue is more these rogue programs than Obama

[sturg33]

Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report (http://nypost.com/2013/11/18/census-faked-2012-election-jobs-report/)

[50PoundHead]

Oh, the New York Post is so reliable.

Anyway, NSA can spy on me all they want as long as they don't tell my wife what I'm doing on the internet.

[57Brave]

Let's talk personal responsibility.

(D) forces Weiner to resign after commiting no crime

(R) forces Radel to take a leave of absence after being convicted of cocain possession. In fact had he been arrested in his home state he would have lost his voting rights.

Personal REsponsibility seems to be a sliding scale. Trying to remember which CC poster demanded he be run out of Washington ...

[Krgrecw]

Being a perv might not be a crime but it's frowned upon more than someone who uses cocaine. Rightfully so.

People do coke but a grown married man who sends nude pics to ladies half his age and continues to lie about it after he gets caught. Could you trust someone like that? Would you want them representing you?

Could anyone who smokes pot, takes pills that aren't theirs call out a fellow person for doing cocaine? I don't think so.

[50PoundHead]

Being a perv might not be a crime but it's frowned upon more than someone who uses cocaine. Rightfully so.

People do coke but a grown married man who sends nude pics to ladies half his age and continues to lie about it after he gets caught. Could you trust someone like that? Would you want them representing you?

Could anyone who smokes pot, takes pills that aren't theirs call out a fellow person for doing cocaine? I don't think so.

I think both are addicts that are in need of help. I did my share of recreational drugs, but some folks can't do recreational drugs and Ford (or this Radel guy) is one of those guys. It's about people's internal wiring and not the activity in and of itself. I never cared for Weiner and when I watched him on television, I always thought there was something wrong with him (even though I agreed with some of what he was saying). What he did was--at least from my understanding--consensual and while that doesn't remove the disgusting nature of the behavior, it qualifies it to some extent.

I'm an alcoholic myself (Hi 50!) and while I'm not prescient, I can usually (not always) spot someone who is heading that direction. Bizarre sexual practices. Alcohol. Serial affairs. Drugs. Trichotillomania. Name your poison. They can all become addictions.

[57Brave]

I wasn't talking about Weiner or Radel personally - agree both have issues that are far beyond a baseball message board.
What i was talking about was the tact taken by the two parties. (D) held Weiner to account (R) --- not so much.
To my way of thinking holding to account is institutionally on par with personal responsibility.

Like 50. wish them both the best and hope they get to see the light at the end of each of their tunnels
/////

I do hope Radel see's the hypocrisy in holding himself to a different standard than those he serves. That though is between him and his maker. Again I wish him the best

[CK86]

I believe Radel should resign. I think he would have an infinitely better chance at getting back into political office if he quit now, went away to rehab, laid low for a few years and then tried to come back. I would be much more likely to vote for a person in the future if they stepped away and said I am not deserving of this office at this time.

Regardless, he should absolutely resign.

[57Brave]

Syria

http://www.lrb.co.uk/2013/12/08/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

[BedellBrave]

Syria

http://www.lrb.co.uk/2013/12/08/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin


Well isn't that interesting...