GDT 5/21 vs Giants

[salmagundy]

Another Snit lineup with wrong hitters in at least 2 slots, IMO.

Acuna
Swanson
Freddie
Donaldson
Markakis
Riley
McCann
Camargo--2B
Teheran

Giants

Panik
Vogt
Posey
Belt
Longoria
Crawford
Duggar
Pillar
Anderson

[nsacpi]

expecting a yuge game from Swanson

[msstate7]

Julio gonna mow em down

[salmagundy]

Prior to tonight, Anderson has 1 other start in his career. Threw 96 pitches in 5 IP, 3 BBs, 5 Ks, 3 runs, 2 ERs, ERA 3.60

[bravesfanMatt]

Thinking we need 5 runs to win this.

[CyYoung31]

Expecting a huge game from Camargo.

[thethe]

Thinking we need 5 runs to win this.

Good thing Riley is playing then

[Hulavol]

Julio is indeed gonna mow em down... expecting AR-27 to go deep!

[salmagundy]

Expecting a huge game from Camargo.

Thinking along those same lines

[msstate7]

Freaking Phillies

[UNCBlue012]

Phillies get two runs on a two-out, two-strike count RBI in the 7th. Freaking Cubs bullpen is trash.

[thewupk]

Phillies get two runs on a two-out, two-strike count RBI in the 7th. Freaking Cubs bullpen is trash.

ok

[salmagundy]

Big wind tonight. 22 MPH blowing out to RF, gusts to 31

[UNCBlue012]

Neck!

[thethe]

HOF!

[UNCBlue012]

Bust ffs

[USMA76]

Four hits in this game and only Muk's was hit hard.

[CJ9]

Julio sitting mid 80s early on the TV gun.

[UNCBlue012]

Julio is back to being Julio in the first I ses

[TheBravos]

He’s not exactly fooling them....

[msstate7]

Demeritte 3-4, 2b, 3b
BA = .324
Ops = 1.036

Is there anything he can do to get a shot in Atlanta as a utility this year? He's still young (24)

[jpx7]

Is there anything he can do to get a shot in Atlanta as a utility this year? He's still young (24)

Become a utility pitcher in the bullpen.

[TheBravos]

Demeritte 3-4, 2b, 3b
BA = .324
Ops = 1.036

Is there anything he can do to get a shot in Atlanta as a utility this year? He's still young (24)

Trade Ender for bullpen help, cut Joyce and bring up Demeritte and Duvall?? That’s about the o my way.

[CJ9]

Demeritte 3-4, 2b, 3b
BA = .324
Ops = 1.036

Is there anything he can do to get a shot in Atlanta as a utility this year? He's still young (24)

Only issue with the utility part is he hasn’t played any infield this year and only played one game there last year. And since he’s not a CF, he’s pretty much corner OF only at this point.

I see him being a small piece in a trade more than anything. He doesn’t have a spot in Atlanta, and he’ll be Rule 5 eligible again this offseason — after he wasn’t selected last year.

[salmagundy]

Demeritte 3-4, 2b, 3b
BA = .324
Ops = 1.036

Is there anything he can do to get a shot in Atlanta as a utility this year? He's still young (24)

Break Culberson's knee with a bat!!

[AerchAngel]

Break Culberson's knee with a bat!!

Tonya Harding

[UNCBlue012]

No velocity and no control early for Julio. Eh.

[CyYoung31]

We’re gonna need some offense. Teheran is bad tonight.

[salmagundy]

Cubs with runners 2nd/3rd, 0 outs in Bot 9 trailing 2-1

[salmagundy]

I'm so sick of Crawford. Robbed Freddie of hit with diving catch of hot liner headed to CF.

[salmagundy]

Cubs with runners 2nd/3rd, 0 outs in Bot 9 trailing 2-1

Contreras FO 9, INT BBs to Heyward loads the bases, 1 out.

[salmagundy]

Contreras FO 9, INT BBs to Heyward loads the bases, 1 out.

Almora drives in tying run with fielders choice. Bases still loaded, 1 out

[UNCBlue012]

Cubs win!

[msstate7]

Damn acuna

[salmagundy]

Almora drives in tying run with fielders choice. Bases still loaded, 1 out

Baez with walk off single. Cubs win 3-2

[UNCBlue012]

OK ACUNA

[salmagundy]

Damn acuna

Where are the Acuna defensive haters now. Great catch.

[UNCBlue012]

Julio just hit 92. lol

[CyYoung31]

Where are the Acuna defensive haters now. Great catch.

I think he’s pretty good in center.

[bravesfanMatt]

Guess what. Riley is leading off again. Seems our power hitters like leading off innings with this fancy new lineup.

[Russ2dollas]

Riley struggled there vs a steady diet of avg big league sliders. I still want to see him hit 95 plus. Not sold yet.

[The Chosen One]

Mac stole that strike.

[The Chosen One]

Riley struggled there vs a steady diet of avg big league sliders. I still want to see him hit 95 plus. Not sold yet.

Like Chip says "major leaguers could time a jet!"

[bravesfanMatt]

Would be nice to blow this open so I can go to bed. This game is dragging and I am not going to make it.

[The Chosen One]

Where are the Acuna defensive haters now. Great catch.

Are you serious lol.

He didn't have to jump as the ball was not going anywhere near the fence let alone over it.

A competent CF doesn't need to jump and make it look more difficult than it actually was.

I'm not hating but there was absolutely no need for him to jump there and make it look like a superman catch.

[GovClintonTyree]

Julio is back to being Julio in the first I ses

Is he really that ****ty, though? BAA .196 last year, .228 this year...ERA 3.90 then and now...does a lot of peripheral stuff (bunt, hit, pickoff move) really well...

He doesn't throw hard, it's true, but he competes his ass off. As a fourth starter, I'll take him.

[salmagundy]

Would be nice to blow this open so I can go to bed. This game is dragging and I am not going to make it.

Drag?? Bored ??? Last night's game took 2hrs 23 mins

[drewdat]

Teheran competing really hard against the pitcher right now.

[msstate7]

Come on Riley

[Enscheff]

Does anyone know why Teheran is being allowed to face the lineup a third time when the BP is rested?

[CyYoung31]

Way to make pitch.

[Diesel]

“Strategic walk” with one out and the middle of Giants order coming up. Man, Chip is a special kind of stupid. At least Jeff disagreed. Does Chip have to endorse everything that happens regarding the Braves with positive spin????

[CyYoung31]

Does anyone know why Teheran is being allowed to fave the lineup a third time when the BP is rested?

Because Teheran is competing.

[thewupk]

Way to make pitch.

the Julio way

[thewupk]

neck keeps on hittin

[msstate7]

Riley struggled there vs a steady diet of avg big league sliders. I still want to see him hit 95 plus. Not sold yet.

That was 96 mph

[CyYoung31]

In a normal park that ball is gone.

[CyYoung31]

How does a 35 year old catcher still have power the other way?

[msstate7]

In a normal park that ball is gone.

Both of them

[msstate7]

Camargo may never get a hit again

[thewupk]

How does a 35 year old catcher still have power the other way?

roids

[bravesfanMatt]

In a normal park that ball is gone.

I thought it was.

[CyYoung31]

roids

The McCannaissance.

[jsebe10]

Very good outing from JT. Very proud of him.

[bravesfanMatt]

Man if we can hold this game I feel pretty good with Fried and Gaus going for the last two of this series.

[msstate7]

Heck of a play by nick

[drewdat]

Gold Glove

[CyYoung31]

Man if we can hold this game I feel pretty good with Fried and Gaus going for the last two of this series.

Guaranteed Ls. Amirite?

[bravesfanMatt]

Guaranteed Ls. Amirite?

Unjinx

[bravesfanMatt]

Guaranteed Ls. Amirite?

Unjinx

[The Chosen One]

Need some runs so i can go to sleep
.

[bravesfanMatt]

Need some runs so i can go to sleep
.

I already tried that. It didn’t work.

[thewupk]

strong PA from Bae there

[bravesfanMatt]

2018 Dansby would have K’d 4 times in that one at bat.

[Acuña’s Bat Flip]

Duggar sucks but Acuña still made scoring from second there look way too easy!

[The Chosen One]

I already tried that. It didn’t work.

Option B: Porn

Option C: Melatonin

[BeanieAntics]

Option B: Porn

Option C: Melatonin

Have you ever tried porn on Melatonin? Its like your two strongest biological senses locked in a giant battle of titans.

[Acuña’s Bat Flip]

Didn't someone advocate trading for that fat Moronta guy earlier today? He kind of sucks!

[CyYoung31]

I thought Markakis was going to get to 3000 tonight.

[Acuña’s Bat Flip]

Stay tuned for Jerome and thethe!

[CyYoung31]

Have you ever tried porn on Melatonin? Its like your two strongest biological senses locked in a giant battle of titans.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/104fe01eb582fb17d63c5e8ce2afb703/tenor.gif?itemid=10104410

[thewupk]

You could say Julio is having a "career" year.

2019: 3.67 ERA | 4.28 FIP
Career: 3.66 ERA | 4.18 FIP

[The Chosen One]

Have you ever tried porn on Melatonin? Its like your two strongest biological senses locked in a giant battle of titans.

Tempted to try it.

Been taking melatonin for the first time this past week to help with jetlag. I noticed I've been falling asleep in under 30 minutes with melatonin. So if I combine the two hopefully I'll be out in under 15.

[CyYoung31]

You could say Julio is having a "career" year.

2019: 3.67 ERA | 4.28 FIP
Career: 3.66 ERA | 4.18 FIP

Ace?

[salmagundy]

Last night the game would be over now. Tonight, we're stuck in the 7th.

Can't take any more.Will catch up in about 5 hrs.

[TURBO]

Sleep will have to wait. Emma wants to dance.

[CyYoung31]

What a play.

[Acuña’s Bat Flip]

Have you ever tried porn on Melatonin? Its like your two strongest biological senses locked in a giant battle of titans.

You could always rub one out real quick to Ashley ShahAhmadi but they had to bring Jabroni Jerome Jurenovich back.

[bravesfanMatt]

Touki in the pen is lethal. Let him hit snit. I want touki for another inning.

[CyYoung31]

You could always rub one out real quick to Ashley ShahAhmadi but they had to bring Jabroni Jerome Jurenovich back.

They took Camargo out of the game too.

[GovClintonTyree]

Ace?
Nuh. Solid contributor, back end piece.

Lot of fans like to slag him 'cause he was supposed to be an ace and never was.

[chop2chip]

Bullpen starting to come together. Really like some of the young arms down there.

Add Kimmy and it’s a strength IMO

[bravesfanMatt]

Nuh. Solid contributor, back end piece.

Lot of fans like to slag him 'cause he was supposed to be an ace and never was.

Woosh.

[The Chosen One]

Chip did not like that joke. Awkward.

[GovClintonTyree]

You could always rub one out real quick to Ashley ShahAhmadi but they had to bring Jabroni Jerome Jurenovich back.

Kind of like getting Anthony Swarzak back. Yay.

[CyYoung31]

Nuh. Solid contributor, back end piece.

Lot of fans like to slag him 'cause he was supposed to be an ace and never was.

Your mom is a back end piece.

[Acuña’s Bat Flip]

Alex Morgan is bae!

[The Chosen One]

Riley is a bust.

[CyYoung31]

Chip did not like that joke. Awkward.

What joke?

[BeanieAntics]

I like the idea of Touki staying in the bullpen for a while to learn how to pitch and sequence against big leaguers, but eventually I want him to transition back to the rotation. I still really love his upside there.

[The Chosen One]

What joke?

Showed a pic of Dansby with his GF on the US women's soccer team.

Jeff said I wonder what bet Dansby lost to have to wear that sweater. He said that's something Chip would wear.

10 seconds of awkward silence later Chip says "I thought it looked nice"

[GovClintonTyree]

Woosh.

What am I missing?

He gets absolutely hammered here every five nights and a good bit in between. It gets tired.

He's not Verlander but he does a decent job.

[bravesfanMatt]

What am I missing?

He gets absolutely hammered here every five nights and a good bit in between. It gets tired.

He's not Verlander but he does a decent job.

Cy wasn’t being serious.

[The Chosen One]

What am I missing?

He gets absolutely hammered here every five nights and a good bit in between. It gets tired.

He's not Verlander but he does a decent job.

He's been better recently.

But you can't tell me when you saw.Tehearn in the lineup for most of the last year+ that you werent expecting him to be at 60 pitches by the end of the 3rd inning and lucky to get to the 5th inning.

[CyYoung31]

So, Snit pinch hits Joyce and then brings in Charlie as a defensive replacement the next inning instead of just leaving Joyce in there.

[The Chosen One]

Ump has been calling that strike agaisnt lefties like half a foot off the plate all night.

[BeanieAntics]

This umpire has called at least 3 terrible strikes the past couple of innings. I'm talking about pitches at least 6-7 inches off the strike zone.

[chop2chip]

He’s been brutal for both teams tonight. That called strike three was gross

[CyYoung31]

That was an awful strike 3 call on Freeman. Ball was nowhere close at any point.

[The Chosen One]

This inning is never going to end.

[The Chosen One]

Lmao.

[thewupk]

This inning is never going to end.

it just did...

[TURBO]

That's a bummer.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Good grief

[Garmel]

How lucky can a team get in an inning?

[CyYoung31]

I ****ing hate baseball.

[bravesfanMatt]

I said we needed 5 runs 77 hours ago. Not sure why they didn’t listen to me.

[atl717]

That's a devastating loss. An absolute joke this pen continues to be.

[msstate7]

Should've gone to newcomb once it reached panik

[CrimsonCowboy]

Two blown saves in a row for Jackson. When do the questions start back up on him again?

[atl717]

Should've gone to newcomb once it reached panik

Correct. Stop treating Jackson like he's a closer. We don't have one. He had 2 strikes on 3 straight hitters and couldn't put any of them away.

[msstate7]

Please don't leave SF without will smith, Watson, or both

[CrimeDog247]

Should've gone to newcomb once it reached panik

I agree, we knew after the luck extended the inning that this was going to happen.

[Buzzworm]

I don’t understand why they kept calling for the slider.He saw 5 plus before he hit the last one.Oh well, win tomorrow.
if only there was a good closer available that we could go get....

[msstate7]

Two blown saves in a row for Jackson. When do the questions start back up on him again?

I have never felt comfortable with him in the game. He had a great run; but if we're counting on him closing games, congrats Phillies

[CrimsonCowboy]

This is what happens when the guy you were counting on to close games gets injured (now traded) and nobody else steps up to take the closer role. The minute the draft is over, talks better be starting with Kimbrel.

[CyYoung31]

It’s really hard to sweep a 4 game series against any team, but this is an inexcusable loss, even if Jackson did get a bit unlucky. Not bringing Newcomb in to face Panik is a major tactical error that can’t be allowed.

[tululush]

This is what happens when the guy you were counting on to close games gets injured (now traded) and nobody else steps up to take the closer role. The minute the draft is over, talks better be starting with Kimbrel.

Start??? They better have a deal in place, and the minute the draft is over they better get on the phone to shoot the **** and pretend to negotiate before they come to terms about twenty minutes later. Ok maybe not twenty minutes. They need to make it look like they waited. 30 minutes.

[Russ2dollas]

Didn’t stay up. Sounds like two blown saves in a row with bad luck? Panda infield hit?

[Russ2dollas]

San Fran sucks. Bad in the of. Good in the pen. Wouldn’t they be interested in Duvall or demerits?

[PurpleBrave]

Same sh*t different day

[UNCBlue012]

What the heck? I woke up to see we allowed three to the freaking Giants in the ninth? How...? What a waste

[TheBravos]

These games are starting to pile up. We would easily have four or five more wins at this point. I know this happens from time to time with all teams, but this is beginning to very common.

Even think about the games we have won (like the Brewers putting up eight runs in the last two innings).

[nsacpi]

Two blown saves in a row for Jackson. When do the questions start back up on him again?

Snit has tried to avoid bringing Newk in during the middle of an inning and has tried to avoid using him on consecutive days. But with just two lefties in the pen he's gonna have to push the envelope.

[striker42]

So glad AA improved the pen this offseason. Think where we'd be if he'd just completely ignored the pen all offseason.

[msstate7]

Snit has tried to avoid bringing Newk in during the middle of an inning and has tried to avoid using him on consecutive days. But with just two lefties in the pen he's gonna have to push the envelope.

3 lefties, right? New guy is in there isn't he?

[Super]

So glad AA improved the pen this offseason. Think where we'd be if he'd just completely ignored the pen all offseason.

a lot of the FAs signed have been really bad. a trade will be coming.
love the people who pop in just to whine.

[clvclv]

These games are starting to pile up. We would easily have four or five more wins at this point. I know this happens from time to time with all teams, but this is beginning to very common.

Even think about the games we have won (like the Brewers putting up eight runs in the last two innings).

Sure we're ONLY 2.5 games out, but that's after winning 8 of 10 before last night. This pen is simply not good (regardless of what recent numbers suggest) and very lucky when at it's absolute best.

For those defending the pen, name the guys YOU honestly feel comfortable with in the 8th and 9th (having Newk not walk guys for a few appearances doesn't exactly qualify).

[bravesfanMatt]

Pen is fine. I think last night was a bit unlucky again for Jackson. Also think the sequencing of pitches was poor. Jackson also missed about 4 high fastballs that were non competitive. I agree that Newk should have been brought in for pancake. I trust our pen just know they are not going to be lock down.

Just take these next two and move on. We out played them for 8 innings and failed to close the deal.

[salmagundy]

Didn't stay up for the end of the game. Just watched the 8th and 9th innings. Another blown save for Jackson. That makes 13 saves in 21 chances so far this season. 8 losses from relievers!! I don't like loosing, especially when winning entering the 9th.


Just a question for all of the Kimbrel nay voters. Do you enjoy watching the Braves lose games in the 9th inning because they don't have a "closer"? And really haven't had one who instills confidence for several years. Jackson has tried very hard but he is not a "dominate" closer.

[bravesfanMatt]

I am really surprised more of you aren’t yelling about lineup construction. We are scoring less because our power hitters are hitting solo shots. I know Acuna is “exciting” leading off. But I am tired of score 3 or fewer runs and having to depend on our pen so much.

Also thin Johan needs a spell in AAA to get right. Swap him and Duvall and see if his bat can get going with regular playing time. That is another area that snit has dropped the ball. He is not subbing guys like he should. Ol’ sharpie snit doin his thang real good.

[UNCBlue012]

People are going to (understandably) overreact, but this was definitely a bad loss.

[nsacpi]

3 lefties, right? New guy is in there isn't he?

Newk and Blevins are lefties. Jackson, Webb, Winkler, Tomlin, Touki and Swarzak are righties.

When you face a team like the Giants who can stack their lineup with lefty hitters, it presents a challenge. But Snit needs to adapt and push the envelope a bit with Newk. I understand the desire to put him in situations where he can succeed and build up his comfort level as a reliever. But at some point we need to find out how he can do on consecutive days pitching and coming in during the middle of an inning with runners on base.

I would also note that we have 4 righties in the starting rotation. The more righties you have in the rotation, the more often other teams will stack their lineups with lefty hitters and the greater the need for a third and fourth lefty in the pen. Hopefully, Minter is back soon and that will improve the situation. I would also consider bringing up Dayton and designating Swarzak for assignment.

[salmagundy]

"I am really surprised more of you aren’t yelling about lineup construction."

As I said when starting this GDT that there are at least 2 hitters in the wrong spots in the line up. It's not only lack of dominate closer, but more on Snit and his use, rather mis-use, of hitters in line up. It also calls for a look at his selection of relievers at any given time.

Blaming relievers for loosing is a valid reason, but blaming their use in spots where a better option is available is on Snit. He continually baffles fans with his decisions on lineup and pitcher selection.

[nsacpi]

Pen is fine.

1) Quite a few things have gone wrong. Injuries to Viz and O'Day. Implosions by Sam Freeman, Biddle, Venters and Minter, which has led to a shortage of lefties in the pen.

2) Jackson and Webb have been pleasant surprises. Newk and Touki give signs of making successful transitions to the pen.

3) Even though 2) mitigates 1), an upgrade or two would be a good idea. I would trade for Ian Kennedy and Will Smith. But there are other ways to accomplish an upgrade.

[Jaw]

Also thin Johan needs a spell in AAA to get right. Swap him and Duvall and see if his bat can get going with regular playing time. That is another area that snit has dropped the ball. He is not subbing guys like he should. Ol’ sharpie snit doin his thang real good.

I think when Ender returns from the IL that one of Ender or Camargo will be traded, or Camargo will be sent down. I don't see any other realistic options with how well Riley is hitting. I guess Joyce could be cut, but he's a much better bench bat than Camargo is right now.

[bravesfanMatt]

"I am really surprised more of you aren’t yelling about lineup construction."

As I said when starting this GDT that there are at least 2 hitters in the wrong spots in the line up. It's not only lack of dominate closer, but more on Snit and his use, rather mis-use, of hitters in line up. It also calls for a look at his selection of relievers at any given time.

Blaming relievers for loosing is a valid reason, but blaming their use in spots where a better option is available is on Snit. He continually baffles fans with his decisions on lineup and pitcher selection.

Yes we can blame Jackson. But fat panda was very lucky. However that should have been the night for Jackson. Newk would have held the runner on first better and had the platoon advantage. The problem is snit thinks his closet has to work the 9th instead of making everyone a closer and utilizing guys where they can succeed

[nsacpi]

I think when Ender returns from the IL that one of Ender or Camargo will be traded, or Camargo will be sent down. I don't see any other realistic options with how well Riley is hitting. I guess Joyce could be cut, but he's a much better bench bat than Camargo is right now.

Going with 7 in the pen is an option. Depends on how the staff as a whole is pitching. But it is viable considering how many multi-inning relievers we have: Newk, Touki, Tomlin. Jackson has pitched multiple innings. I think Webb has too.

Also someone will get hurt. So the return of Ender is not really a problem. I agree that Riley is not going to get sent down to AAA. I would keep Joyce.

[bravesfanMatt]

Going with 7 in the pen is an option. Depends on how the staff as a whole is pitching. But it is viable considering how many multi-inning relievers we have: Newk, Touki, Tomlin. Jackson has pitched multiple innings. I think Webb has too.

Also someone will get hurt. So the return of Ender is not really a problem. I agree that Riley is not going to get send down to AAA.

I am sorry, but how would a deeper bench benefit this team. Snit doesn’t know how to deploy the bench right now. And I am sure not going to let him manage a shorter pen. You are now talking about double switches and pitchers going longer per game. No way I trust twit with that kind of stuff.

[Jaw]

Going with 7 in the pen is an option. Depends on how the staff as a whole is pitching. But it is viable considering how many multi-inning relievers we have: Newk, Touki, Tomlin. Jackson has pitched multiple innings. I think Webb has too.

Also someone will get hurt. So the return of Ender is not really a problem. I agree that Riley is not going to get send down to AAA. I would keep Joyce.

I agree with you that a 7 man pen should be an option. I'm just not confident it will be, given the amount of young pitching, the Jekyll and Hyde bullpen performances, and the Snitker.

[nsacpi]

Yes we can blame Jackson. But fat panda was very lucky. However that should have been the night for Jackson. Newk would have held the runner on first better and had the platoon advantage. The problem is snit thinks his closet has to work the 9th instead of making everyone a closer and utilizing guys where they can succeed

I think it is more his reluctance to bring in Newk on consecutive days and also in the middle of an inning with runners on. Newk might still need a little more time to warm up than your typical reliever. But I think we need to find out how he can do in those situations.

[nsacpi]

I am sorry, but how would a deeper bench benefit this team. Snit doesn’t know how to deploy the bench right now. And I am sure not going to let him manage a shorter pen. You are now talking about double switches and pitchers going longer per game. No way I trust twit with that kind of stuff.

Look at last night's game. The only unused position player was Flowers. But we had four relievers in the pen who were not used. Most teams nowadays carry 8 relievers. But I don't think it is a slam dunk that this is always the best way to go. I'm not advocating 7 relievers for the rest of the season. But for a couple weeks it might make sense.

[clvclv]

Didn't stay up for the end of the game. Just watched the 8th and 9th innings. Another blown save for Jackson. That makes 13 saves in 21 chances so far this season. 8 losses from relievers!! I don't like loosing, especially when winning entering the 9th.


Just a question for all of the Kimbrel nay voters. Do you enjoy watching the Braves lose games in the 9th inning because they don't have a "closer"? And really haven't had one who instills confidence for several years. Jackson has tried very hard but he is not a "dominate" closer.

Preach the numbers all the defenders of the pen want, then remember this...

"The Braves still believe that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer’s role. He, along with Josh Tomlin, are Atlanta’s only relievers who were on the Opening Day roster. Since then, injuries and ineffectiveness have forced the Braves to use 18 relievers, this year’s third-highest total behind Baltimore (23) and Seattle (22)."

Jackson was picked up because Texas (of all teams) decided he wasn't worth keeping - he's had the best stretch of his career (SSS), and is still consistently blowing leads. More often than not, when he protects one he's been fairly lucky. Luck is fun while it lasts, but if you're more numbers-driven you're usually screaming about sample sizes and how expecting hot streaks and luck to continue is a pretty bad idea.

[bravesfanMatt]

Look at last night's game. The only unused position player was Flowers. But we had four relievers in the pen who were not used. Most teams nowadays carry 8 relievers. But I don't think it is a slam dunk that this is always the best way to go. I'm not advocating 7 relievers for the rest of the season. But for a couple weeks it might make sense.

You mean where he hit Joyce and then put clutch in the field.

[bravesfanMatt]

Preach the numbers all the defenders of the pen want, then remember this...

"The Braves still believe that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer’s role. He, along with Josh Tomlin, are Atlanta’s only relievers who were on the Opening Day roster. Since then, injuries and ineffectiveness have forced the Braves to use 18 relievers, this year’s third-highest total behind Baltimore (23) and Seattle (22)."

Jackson was picked up because Texas (of all teams) decided he wasn't worth keeping - he's had the best stretch of his career (SSS), and is still consistently blowing leads. More often than not, when he protects one he's been fairly lucky. Luck is fun while it lasts, but if you're more numbers-driven you're usually screaming about sample sizes and how expecting hot streaks and luck to continue is a pretty bad idea.

So Kimbrel is unemployed because everyone wants him?

[clvclv]

So Kimbrel is unemployed because everyone wants him?

Obviously.

[nsacpi]

Preach the numbers all the defenders of the pen want, then remember this...

"The Braves still believe that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer’s role. He, along with Josh Tomlin, are Atlanta’s only relievers who were on the Opening Day roster. Since then, injuries and ineffectiveness have forced the Braves to use 18 relievers, this year’s third-highest total behind Baltimore (23) and Seattle (22)."

Jackson was picked up because Texas (of all teams) decided he wasn't worth keeping - he's had the best stretch of his career (SSS), and is still consistently blowing leads. More often than not, when he protects one he's been fairly lucky. Luck is fun while it lasts, but if you're more numbers-driven you're usually screaming about sample sizes and how expecting hot streaks and luck to continue is a pretty bad idea.

I don't think anyone thinks we should stand pat with the pen. An upgrade or two is needed.

[buck75]

Braves let three runners get to second in the ninth (defensive indifference and two stolen bases). I don’t think Luke threw over to first at all last night. They could have walked Panik to pitch to Vogt as well. Ball game.

[clvclv]

I don't think anyone thinks we should stand pat with the pen. An upgrade or two is needed.

No doubt, but if continuing to read that "The Braves still BELIEVE that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer's role." doesn't make fans feel any better, how discouraging do you think it is to the guys in the clubhouse when they're doing enough to win these games and you keep telling everyone you've got plenty of money to fix this - but don't?

They're going to say the right things publicly because they're professionals, but I seriously doubt many of them feel particularly confident about anything short of a HUGE lead at this point.

[Super]

No doubt, but if continuing to read that "The Braves still BELIEVE that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer's role." doesn't make fans feel any better, how discouraging do you think it is to the guys in the clubhouse when they're doing enough to win these games and you keep telling everyone you've got plenty of money to fix this - but don't?

They're going to say the right things publicly because they're professionals, but I seriously doubt many of them feel particularly confident about anything short of a HUGE lead at this point.

luke jackson has been good this year.
the error last night was leaving him to face a lefty. he shouldn't be treated as a closer who can get everyone out; he should still be situational.

[clvclv]

luke jackson has been good this year.
the error last night was leaving him to face a lefty. he shouldn't be treated as a closer who can get everyone out; he should still be situational.

That's the problem and goes back to the earlier question I asked - guys like Jackson (and others) may be just fine when used in the right situation in the 6th or 7th. If there's anyone in that pen today that you feel comfortable with in the 8th or 9th to put in there to get 3 outs regardless of who's due to hit, name him.

[nsacpi]

No doubt, but if continuing to read that "The Braves still BELIEVE that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer's role." doesn't make fans feel any better, how discouraging do you think it is to the guys in the clubhouse when they're doing enough to win these games and you keep telling everyone you've got plenty of money to fix this - but don't?

They're going to say the right things publicly because they're professionals, but I seriously doubt many of them feel particularly confident about anything short of a HUGE lead at this point.

Of course Braves officialdom will express confidence in Luke Jackson. There is nothing wrong with that.

[nsacpi]

luke jackson has been good this year.
the error last night was leaving him to face a lefty. he shouldn't be treated as a closer who can get everyone out; he should still be situational.

Snit has to mix and match better. And he has to start pushing the envelope with respect to how he uses Newk.

[buck75]

If this had been a playoff game, would you have substituted Flowers for McCann in the bottom of the ninth?

[nsacpi]

There is a trade rumor regarding Shane Greene from the Tigers. He would be a good pickup for the pen.

[Enscheff]

I am really surprised more of you aren’t yelling about lineup construction. We are scoring less because our power hitters are hitting solo shots. I know Acuna is “exciting” leading off. But I am tired of score 3 or fewer runs and having to depend on our pen so much.

Also thin Johan needs a spell in AAA to get right. Swap him and Duvall and see if his bat can get going with regular playing time. That is another area that snit has dropped the ball. He is not subbing guys like he should. Ol’ sharpie snit doin his thang real good.

There have been several tactical mistakes lately, some of which occurred in close games where a single correct move may have scored/prevented an extra run and won a game. In a season where it looks like the Braves will make or miss the playoffs by a small margin, these tactical errors could loom large.

Snit wastes PAs on pitchers, which we saw with Folty in his last start.

Snit fails to build an optimal lineup as seen with Acuna leading off and Swanson batting 2nd.

Snit often makes head scratching BP decisions, though some of these may be due to info we don't have (perhaps Newk was sore last night).

None of these errors lead to dramatically different outcomes, but making a correct decision every time maybe adds 1-2 base runners per week, that leads to 1-2 extra runs per month, that leads to 1-2 extra wins by the end of the season. Add in a few of those types of consistently correct decisions, and it can add a few wins per year. That is the value the Braves are leaving on the table with a poor tactician like Snit in charge.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Acuna has only hit 3 HR with men on. Now perhaps that's due to poor OBP'ers batting at leadoff, but his home runs weren't often coming with men on at cleanup. The thought has been that he's changed his approach there, has tried to be Votto, and tries to get the man in instead of being aggressive which is not completely him. His best self has a hint of aggression.

I think that's it though for him hitting at cleanup. Only other place you might see him at from here on is #2 instead, but he's likely to be leadoff for the ROS unless the Braves have another horrible offensive slump.

[CyYoung31]

Acuna has only hit 3 HR with men on. Now perhaps that's due to poor OBP'ers batting at leadoff, but his home runs weren't often coming with men on at cleanup. The thought has been that he's changed his approach there, has tried to be Votto, and tries to get the man in instead of being aggressive which is not completely him. His best self has a hint of aggression.

I think that's it though for him hitting at cleanup. Only other place you might see him at from here on is #2 instead, but he's likely to be leadoff for the ROS unless the Braves have another horrible offensive slump.

Except that he went on a similar tear early in the season batting cleanup. This narrative that he’s magically a different hitter batting in the leadoff spot isn’t correct.

[UNCBlue012]

There have been several tactical mistakes lately, some of which occurred in close games where a single correct move may have scored/prevented an extra run and won a game. In a season where it looks like the Braves will make or miss the playoffs by a small margin, these tactical errors could loom large.

Snit wastes PAs on pitchers, which we saw with Folty in his last start.

Snit fails to build an optimal lineup as seen with Acuna leading off and Swanson batting 2nd.

Snit often makes head scratching BP decisions, though some of these may be due to info we don't have (perhaps Newk was sore last night).

None of these errors lead to dramatically different outcomes, but making a correct decision every time maybe adds 1-2 base runners per week, that leads to 1-2 extra runs per month, that leads to 1-2 extra wins by the end of the season. Add in a few of those types of consistently correct decisions, and it can add a few wins per year. That is the value the Braves are leaving on the table with a poor tactician like Snit in charge.

You can't teach leadership, though! And my God, Snit has it!!!

[bravesfanMatt]

Except that he went on a similar tear early in the season batting cleanup. This narrative that he’s magically a different hitter batting in the leadoff spot isn’t correct.

Correct. It is flawed logic or Acuna is a flawed player. If you change who you are because of where you hit the. Someone needs to smack you in the head.

But I don’t think that is the case. He didn’t bat leadoff all the time in the minors nor when he came up. He is a good hitter regardless where he hits. The problem right now is he is literal in the one spot who gets the fewest runners on base (by a good margin). Why someone from the FO has put an end to this is beyond me. I honestly think AA wants Snit to fail so he can get rid of him and bring in his own guy.

[salmagundy]

Enscheff--"That is the value the Braves are leaving on the table with a poor tactician like Snit in charge."


Snit would have flunked out of AF War College because he doesn't think "tactics thru" or even understand them. It is becoming more and more obvious every game.

And learning about metrics is akin to trying to teach him to speak Mandarin Chinese.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Correct. It is flawed logic or Acuna is a flawed player. If you change who you are because of where you hit the. Someone needs to smack you in the head.

But I don’t think that is the case. He didn’t bat leadoff all the time in the minors nor when he came up. He is a good hitter regardless where he hits. The problem right now is he is literal in the one spot who gets the fewest runners on base (by a good margin). Why someone from the FO has put an end to this is beyond me. I honestly think AA wants Snit to fail so he can get rid of him and bring in his own guy.

Well, Acuna said he prefers leadoff and AA said that he'd like Acuna at leadoff too, so the Acuna leadoff stuff is beyond Snitker.

[salmagundy]

Well, Acuna said he prefers leadoff and AA said that he'd prefer Acuna at leadoff too, so the Acuna leadoff stuff is beyond Snitker.

All that might be true, but looking at Swanson's stats hitting in the 2 hole show the lack of understanding the value of metrics. His 2 hole numbers are worse than those of hitting 6th, 7th, or 8th.

[The Chosen One]

Snitker told the broadcast guys that "Acuna at the top just makes the lineup feel different. He's just a different player with his energy at leadoff".

lol.

I still go with:

Neck
Ron
Fred
Don
Riles
Ozz
Mac-T-Flow
Dans

I know Snit is obsessed with L-R-L-R balance,but Riley should hit 5th and then whatever happens 6-8 doesn't matter too much since Ozzie is switch and Mac and T-Flow can be switched depending on pitcher.

[AerchAngel]

All that might be true, but looking at Swanson's stats hitting in the 2 hole show the lack of understanding the value of metrics. His 2 hole numbers are worse than those of hitting 6th, 7th, or 8th.

If Ronald leads, Neck bats second. And both Neck and Freeman have no issues with left-handed pitchers.

[AerchAngel]

Snitker told the broadcast guys that "Acuna at the top just makes the lineup feel different. He's just a different player with his energy at leadoff".

lol.

I still go with:

Neck
Ron
Fred
Don
Riles
Ozz
Mac-T-Flow
Dans

I know Snit is obsessed with L-R-L-R balance,but Riley should hit 5th and then whatever happens 6-8 doesn't matter too much since Ozzie is switch and Mac and T-Flow can be switched depending on pitcher.

Or this. Thanks Sav.

[GeorgiaGirl]

All that might be true, but looking at Swanson's stats hitting in the 2 hole show the lack of understanding the value of metrics. His 2 hole numbers are worse than those of hitting 6th, 7th, or 8th.

Based off backchannels its actually rumored that Dansby #2 was suggested by some in the analytics department. The same guy also suggested Ronald at leadoff. But either way, based on the REAL things I've heard and not backchannel stuff, I wouldn't pin Acuna leadoff on Snitker, I'd pin Acuna leadoff on his preference and AA liking it just as much. Since AA likes it I doubt he tells Snitker to stop, so it's going to be up to Snitker on this and would take a massive offensive slump to change it again.

[Enscheff]

Enscheff--"That is the value the Braves are leaving on the table with a poor tactician like Snit in charge."


Snit would have flunked out of AF War College because he doesn't think "tactics thru" or even understand them. It is becoming more and more obvious every game.

And learning about metrics is akin to trying to teach him to speak Mandarin Chinese.

I think Snit is good at following directions if the directions are relayed to him concisely. We have seen him improve in areas where it's obvious the FO has given him better data to make better decisions. We have heard him comment on several occasions that now is the first time he has seen some piece of data, and it helps him.

The area he still seems to be poor at is deciding what to do on the spot during a game. Short of the FO sitting down with him and going over every single likely scenario and showing him data, I don't think there's any way to fix it. In the postseason they may very well script out the ~20 most likely scenarios so Snit can follow it, but that's not something that can be done every day for 6 months.

[AerchAngel]

I think Snit is good at following directions if the directions are relayed to him concisely. We have seen him improve in areas where it's obvious the FO has given him better data to make better decisions. We have heard him comment on several occasions that now is the first time he has seen some piece of data, and it helps him.

The area he still seems to be poor at is deciding what to do on the spot during a game. Short of the FO sitting down with him and going over every single likely scenario and showing him data, I don't think there's any way to fix it. In the postseason they may very well script out the ~20 most likely scenarios so Snit can follow it, but that's not something that can be done every day for 6 months.

It needs to change, Sav's lineup is ideal to be honest.

[Southcack77]

Snitker told the broadcast guys that "Acuna at the top just makes the lineup feel different. He's just a different player with his energy at leadoff".

lol.

I still go with:

Neck
Ron
Fred
Don
Riles
Ozz
Mac-T-Flow
Dans

I know Snit is obsessed with L-R-L-R balance,but Riley should hit 5th and then whatever happens 6-8 doesn't matter too much since Ozzie is switch and Mac and T-Flow can be switched depending on pitcher.


While lineup optimization isn't really as significant as we make it out to be sometimes, I agree wholeheartedly with your suggested lineup though I might bat the catcher ahead of Albies the way things have been going.

[Russ2dollas]

Didn't stay up for the end of the game. Just watched the 8th and 9th innings. Another blown save for Jackson. That makes 13 saves in 21 chances so far this season. 8 losses from relievers!! I don't like loosing, especially when winning entering the 9th.


Just a question for all of the Kimbrel nay voters. Do you enjoy watching the Braves lose games in the 9th inning because they don't have a "closer"? And really haven't had one who instills confidence for several years. Jackson has tried very hard but he is not a "dominate" closer.

Good pitchers give up runs. Jackson has been good for us. The last two innings he's given up runs and maybe 1 hard hit ball.

The issue is we do not have enough good pitchers despite investing in pitchers more than anyone else in baseball.

I still think they need to use Newk and Touki for 2-3 innings and that will shorten up the number of bad pitchers we use. I'm not into spending a ton of resources on the pen but we should be able to make some deals for upgrades.

Demerrite and Duvall should get us some pen help.

[salmagundy]

Good pitchers give up runs. Jackson has been good for us. The last two innings he's given up runs and maybe 1 hard hit ball.

The issue is we do not have enough good pitchers despite investing in pitchers more than anyone else in baseball.

I still think they need to use Newk and Touki for 2-3 innings and that will shorten up the number of bad pitchers we use. I'm not into spending a ton of resources on the pen but we should be able to make some deals for upgrades.

Demerrite and Duvall should get us some pen help.

That sounds good until you look into specifics. Newk tonight for 2 innings shuts him down for tomorrow. Touki for 2 innings Thurs shuts him down for Fri. After 2 times of 2 IP, they will both probably be unavailable the next days. They can only throw so many innings over a short period of time. So after both are used up for a couple of days you're right back to all the others who have not proven that they are consistent or have the confidence of the fans.

[AerchAngel]

Jackson did not pitch bad, just bad luck, the only issue, he needed that K.

[salmagundy]

Jackson's blown save has blown me out of starting GDTs for awhile. Lineups are posted on several different sites for over an hour. New lineup but unfortunately still some hitters in wrong spots.

Isn't it about time for Aerch Angle to start a GDT???

[AerchAngel]

Jackson's blown save has blown me out of starting GDTs for awhile. Lineups are posted on several different sites for over an hour. New lineup but unfortunately still some hitters in wrong spots.

Isn't it about time for Aerch Angle to start a GDT???

I am not good at it.

And it is not your fault, seeing eye singles to lose, it happens.

[Russ2dollas]

That sounds good until you look into specifics. Newk tonight for 2 innings shuts him down for tomorrow. Touki for 2 innings Thurs shuts him down for Fri. After 2 times of 2 IP, they will both probably be unavailable the next days. They can only throw so many innings over a short period of time. So after both are used up for a couple of days you're right back to all the others who have not proven that they are consistent or have the confidence of the fans.

You have Wilson and Wright to option up and down to have available guys

[nsacpi]

I am not good at it.

And it is not your fault, seeing eye singles to lose, it happens.

just read the manual in the technical help section...you can do it...si se puede

[salmagundy]

You have Wilson and Wright to option up and down to have available guys

Wright has given up 11 ER in 14 IP. Wilson has given up 4 ER in 4.1 IP. 10 day options don't add much.

No thank you.

[clvclv]

There is a trade rumor regarding Shane Greene from the Tigers. He would be a good pickup for the pen.

???