I Know -I Know

[57Brave]

--When we talk about taxation and forced insurance or even having to stop at traffic lights!!! No one here has the stones to admit publicly Sarah Palin is their spokesperson. Yet they parrot in one for or another everything she says.

You know who you are!!

this read from outside the bubble:

Next year's most famous meth addict, Sarah Palin, says that the national debt is "like slavery" (prefacing it with a charming "this isn't racist" because white Alaskans get to judge such things). Republicans all over the place say that the insurance mandate under the Affordable Care Act is "like slavery." Right-wingers compare abortion rights to slavery (when they're not comparing it to the Holocaust). And they're right. All of those are exactly like being owned as property by a master who can force you to work and rape you and sell you or your children to others and torture you on a whim.

Here's a list of some other things that Palin, the GOP, and company must consider to be just like slavery:

1. 2-Year cell phone agreements

2. State-mandated car insurance

3. Frequent flier mileage usage restrictions

4. Hotel mini-bar prices

5. Sharing a cab

6. Finishing one's four-year term as an elected official (Palin only)

7. Waiting in line for a cronut

8. Having to appeal to voters who aren't white, conservative, and/or rich

9. The minimum wage

10. Having a black president

[zitothebrave]

This thread

:facepalm:

[yeezus]

Sarah Palin is a very dumb human being. Why do we take what she says seriously?

[57Brave]

Why does common sense seem to have to keep answering to her? That is pretty much the issue
and, it does.

Witness dozens of posts here tauting just about verbatum her and Rush's words. Yet, the poster(S) proudly proclaim they don't follow him (her) butt-- "what they say makes a lot of sense."
Haven't we seen on this board posters tip toe to the edge of calling ACA "slavery"
???

[yeezus]

She thinks christianity is attacked more than she attacks islam, calls people who want to "ruin" christmas scrooges and those who want to "preserve it" "patriots." She is thoroughly delusional. She says "liberals and mainstream media" wants to tell people how to live their lives - which is incredibly hypocritical considering the party she associates with.

Listening to her talk is torture and maddening. I can't believe people like her actually exist.

[57Brave]

That's very true yeez but she doesn't exist in a vacuum. People do get her message -- witness the attacks she made on Obama as the "other" during the 08 election. She tapped into something we see today in everything from the analysis of the handling of Syria to ACA to there still being questions spoken out loud on national TV over the Presidents right to be President.

Like I said earlier -- no one claims to follow but many hold her advise close. Be it directly from her mouth or through filter vehicles like Sunday talk shows.
Different mouth same words.

[Tapate50]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/tapate50/2471_zps7a7ad959.gif

[57Brave]

Like I said, "you know who you are"

[Tapate50]

Like I said, "you know who you are"

If this was directed at me, you couldn't be less informed about what I listen, watch, or regurgitate. I have said nothing in the ACA thread that I am not seeing for myself in this area. We are getting the high hard one on the ACA, and you just brush it off as uneducated consumer, when I am in fact in the insurance business. Oh right, its the employers fault right? Not what our company reps are saying but sure ignore that info.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your first and second post in this thread are borderline insane. Seek help.

[sturg33]

If this was directed at me, you couldn't be less informed about what I listen, watch, or regurgitate. I have said nothing in the ACA thread that I am not seeing for myself in this area. We are getting the high hard one on the ACA, and you just brush it off as uneducated consumer, when I am in fact in the insurance business. Oh right, its the employers fault right? Not what our company reps are saying but sure ignore that info.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your first and second post in this thread are borderline insane. Seek help.


I actually think he is completely delirious in his defend Obama at all costs behavior

[Tapate50]

I actually think he is completely delirious in his defend Obama at all costs behavior

It is worse than that. He creates "material" to be divisive and different and paints people with Blue\Red brushes as he sees fit. It really isn't worth responding to. I think most people see what he is at this point and there really isn't a need to try anymore.

[sturg33]

It is worse than that. He creates "material" to be divisive and different and paints people with Blue\Red brushes as he sees fit. It really isn't worth responding to. I think most people see what he is at this point and there really isn't a need to try anymore.

Yeah - I've never seen anyone in my life as partisan as he is. Oh well

[Tapate50]

Yeah - I've never seen anyone in my life as partisan as he is. Oh well

But we are the jersey wavers! Lol. Oh well. Can't talk to people that don't listen.

[sturg33]

--When we talk about taxation and forced insurance or even having to stop at traffic lights!!! No one here has the stones to admit publicly Sarah Palin is their spokesperson. Yet they parrot in one for or another everything she says.

You know who you are!!

this read from outside the bubble:

Next year's most famous meth addict, Sarah Palin, says that the national debt is "like slavery" (prefacing it with a charming "this isn't racist" because white Alaskans get to judge such things). Republicans all over the place say that the insurance mandate under the Affordable Care Act is "like slavery." Right-wingers compare abortion rights to slavery (when they're not comparing it to the Holocaust). And they're right. All of those are exactly like being owned as property by a master who can force you to work and rape you and sell you or your children to others and torture you on a whim.

Here's a list of some other things that Palin, the GOP, and company must consider to be just like slavery:

1. 2-Year cell phone agreements

2. State-mandated car insurance

3. Frequent flier mileage usage restrictions

4. Hotel mini-bar prices

5. Sharing a cab

6. Finishing one's four-year term as an elected official (Palin only)

7. Waiting in line for a cronut

8. Having to appeal to voters who aren't white, conservative, and/or rich

9. The minimum wage

10. Having a black president


1. I have a choice to do this. I don't with ACA

2. I have a choice to not drive a car. And I have a choice to move to a different state. I don't have that luxery with ACA

3. I have a choice to decide which card/beneifts I want. I don't with ACA

4. I have a choice whether or not to pay those prices. I don't with ACA

5. I have a choice to take a cab. I don't with ACA

6. Did Obama finish his 6 year senate term? No

7. I don't even know what this is. But I have a choice to wait or not wait. I don't with ACA

8. You're a moron

9. The minimum wage reduces employment. So does the ACA

10. You're a moron

[The Chosen One]

I think it's hilarious Palin has called the Pope too Liberal.

She's basically just confirmed to herself that she's bigger than the Pope or any othe religious figure in history.

Just waiting for her to say Jesus was too liberal.

[57Brave]

Tongue planted firmly in cheek --- I am surprised there hasn't been an outpouring of support for Mr Zimmerman like say when he ...



https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1454584_650920638293801_27027484_n.png

[weso1]

If this was directed at me, you couldn't be less informed about what I listen, watch, or regurgitate. I have said nothing in the ACA thread that I am not seeing for myself in this area. We are getting the high hard one on the ACA, and you just brush it off as uneducated consumer, when I am in fact in the insurance business. Oh right, its the employers fault right? Not what our company reps are saying but sure ignore that info.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your first and second post in this thread are borderline insane. Seek help.

This is why Bedell doesn't want to post here. Steak Sauce constantly projects opinions of other people onto us and then tries to mock us for it. He has an assumption of what we are thinking before we think it. At least use our own words to mock us like crump does... :Alone:

[Tapate50]

This is why Bedell doesn't want to post here. Steak Sauce constantly projects opinions of other people onto us and then tries to mock us for it. He has an assumption of what we are thinking before we think it. At least use our own words to mock us like crump does... :Alone:

I am quickly going the way of Bedell then. There is no sense in it.

[weso1]

I think it's hilarious Palin has called the Pope too Liberal.

She's basically just confirmed to herself that she's bigger than the Pope or any othe religious figure in history.

Just waiting for her to say Jesus was too liberal.

We should never question the pope and his handling of the Catholic Church.

[57Brave]

A wise woman once said "when they can't win on the policy they fight with politics. When they can't win the politics they get personal"
Can you name this famous woman?

I take the "assumption" everyone has a free will and capable of changing their minds and admitting when they are wrong
/////

To set the record straight I wandered back to Scout to find those "own words" but that place is reminiscent of Sarajevo circa 1996.

[The Chosen One]

We should never question the pope and his handling of the Catholic Church.

Don't see what the big deal is with this Pope when the most contraversial thing he's said so far was "God accepts and loves his *** children too" or something to that extent.

He's still pro-life which is supposed to be the biggest factor.

[57Brave]

Rep. Trey Radel, (R) Florida who voted to drug test food stamp recipients has been busted-booked and tatooed for Cocaine possession. Not only did he favor testing food stamp people but he used his heartfelt public service to gut the food stamp program. Y'all should know who your friends are. "don't follow leaders and watch ya parkin meters"

Wonder what Anthony Weiner is doing today? and why no one has invoked his name yet today??

[Tapate50]

People on welfare and food stamps should for SURE be drug tested. I have zero issue with implementing that.

[zitothebrave]

People on welfare and food stamps should for SURE be drug tested. I have zero issue with implementing that.

I have an issue with it. Because it wastes tax payer money. Same thing with voter ID laws, it's a non-solution to a non-problem.

[sturg33]

Since there shouldn't be drug laws in the first place, I don't want anyone drug tested.

But also don't want anyone on food stamps either

[Tapate50]

I have an issue with it. Because it wastes tax payer money. Same thing with voter ID laws, it's a non-solution to a non-problem.

Meh, depends on if you think someone should get Government benefits while taking\using an illegal substance likely contributing to their situation.

[57Brave]

God I hate to infuse non sense like verifiable data into a conversation.
Even more - I hate to add context to that data - but I'll hold my nose and --- here goes.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

"Utah has spent more than $30,000 to drug test welfare applicants after it passed a new law last year. But in that time, just 12 people have tested positive for drug use, according to state figures."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/27/2532851/utah-spent-30000-catch-12-drug-users-welfare/

///////

aren't these all states that refused Medicaid expansion to implement ACA?
Pattern here or what

Would someone like to discuss how shirts or jerseys or our team vs your team ....

[Tapate50]

God I hate to infuse non sense like verifiable data into a conversation.
Even more - I hate to add context to that data - but I'll hold my nose and --- here goes.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

"Utah has spent more than $30,000 to drug test welfare applicants after it passed a new law last year. But in that time, just 12 people have tested positive for drug use, according to state figures."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/27/2532851/utah-spent-30000-catch-12-drug-users-welfare/

///////

aren't these all states that refused Medicaid expansion to implement ACA?
Pattern here or what

Would someone like to discuss how shirts or jerseys or our team vs your team ....

That is all if you are using this a fiscal matter... I don't. I believe it is a issue of IF you should get benefits if you are a drug user. There are no jerseys involved.

[yeezus]

People on welfare and food stamps should for SURE be drug tested. I have zero issue with implementing that.

Drug test politicians too, then. Why should they get to rake in all this taxpayer money without being subjected to the same rules?
Me thinks many a politician would not be ok with this.

[yeezus]

That is all if you are using this a fiscal matter... I don't. I believe it is a issue of IF you should get benefits if you are a drug user. There are no jerseys involved.

Hey, alcohol leaves the system quick. So if they smoke a little weed, it's a problem. If they get drunk every night, no big deal, carry on.
How long do rx pills stay in the system?
$30,000 to catch 12 people seems like a huge waste of resources.

[Tapate50]

Hey, alcohol leaves the system quick. So if they smoke a little weed, it's a problem. If they get drunk every night, no big deal, carry on.
How long do rx pills stay in the system?
$30,000 to catch 12 people seems like a huge waste of resources.

Both are illegal. Drinking at night mostly won't affect me being employed the next day.

Have an accident on the job? Under the influence? See ya. Your gov't sponsored health plan will be picking up the tab, not the employer. You will also be subject to unemployment drug tests and won't get benefits if you test positive. What is wrong with that?

Under the current situation, your examples are apples and oranges.

[57Brave]

That is all if you are using this a fiscal matter... I don't. I believe it is a issue of IF you should get benefits if you are a drug user. There are no jerseys involved.

Besides the fact it is a huge waste of money and nothing more than RW grandstanding ===
There is the issue of unreasonable search and seizure. ((Which amendment 5th I think) -- is the fact you are seeking welfare enough evidence to suspect one is using drugs then to search your person ? If you are against NSA surveillance how could one possibly favor the unreasonable assumption one is a drug user -- simply because they've fallen on hard times and seek relief??

[Tapate50]

Besides the fact it is a huge waste of money and nothing more than RW grandstanding ===
There is the issue of unreasonable search and seizure. ((Which amendment 5th I think) -- is the fact you are seeking welfare enough evidence to suspect one is using drugs then to search your person ? If you are against NSA surveillance how could one possibly favor the unreasonable assumption one is a drug user -- simply because they've fallen on hard times and seek relief??

Relief?

We can stop right there. This isn't going anywhere with that frame of mind. This is pointless. We get it. You believe everyone should get everything for free, and without consequence.

[57Brave]

Relief is a New Deal term used as an synonym for "welfare" and probably the more accurate word

[Tapate50]

Then sober up. Easy as that.

[50PoundHead]

This is our own fault. Anyone who listens to Sarah Palin or Al Sharpton gets what they deserve.

[Tapate50]

This is our own fault. Anyone who listens to Sarah Palin or Al Sharpton gets what they deserve.

Sarah Palin must have a nationally syndicated TV show that airs all day every day that people watch. She is mentioned here more than baseball.

[sturg33]

I can honestly say I haven't heard Sarah Palin speak in at least a year... Is she still relevant somewhere? What am I missing?

[50PoundHead]

Sarah Palin must have a nationally syndicated TV show that airs all day every day that people watch. She is mentioned here more than baseball.

Agreed. I could go without her mention (or Sharpton's). And even though I'm left-of-center, I am tired of Rachel Maddow too.

[jpx7]

Then sober up. Easy as that.

That's actually, like, not at all easy for people with genetically- and/or environmentally-conditioned predispositions towards addiction. Methinks you don't know **** about chemical dependency if your response is: "Easy as that."

[Julio3000]

People on welfare and food stamps should for SURE be drug tested. I have zero issue with implementing that.

The numbers have been run on that enough times to know that it is a money-losing proposition for the state or municipality doing the testing. It keeps cropping up because the stigmatization of the poor is good electoral politics in certain venues.

[Tapate50]

That's actually, like, not at all easy for people with genetically- and/or environmentally-conditioned predispositions towards addiction. Methinks you don't know **** about chemical dependency if your response is: "Easy as that."

There is plenty of help available. Don't do drugs. Pretty cut and dry. I am not saying it is easy to accomplish, but if you want government benefits , then yeah it is that easy (cut\dry).

Methinks you looked for something to jump on.

Life choices: Make good ones.

[Tapate50]

The numbers have been run on that enough times to know that it is a money-losing proposition for the state or municipality doing the testing. It keeps cropping up because the stigmatization of the poor is good electoral politics in certain venues.

Sure I get that. But to me, it isn't a money issue. I flat out don't think that you should get gov't benefits if you are still getting high all the time.

[Tapate50]

I can honestly say I haven't heard Sarah Palin speak in at least a year... Is she still relevant somewhere? What am I missing?

I agree. I haven't heard a word she has said since she lost with Old man Mac. I figured by now she would have an afternoon talk show on tv somewhere.

[57Brave]

No supporters of George Zimmerman today --- huh?
No one claiming he is the victim of ... - wonder how those jurors are sleeping tonight -- Mark O'Mara ??

Wonder if anyone has the stones to admit they got it wrong last spring

[jpx7]

There is plenty of help available. Don't do drugs. Pretty cut and dry. I am not saying it is easy to accomplish, but if you want government benefits , then yeah it is that easy (cut\dry).

There really isn't quite as much help as you think for the impoverished addict who you seem to be, coincidentally, in favor of starving through lack of assistance.


Life choices: Make good ones.

That's all well and good as advice, but sometimes people don't make ideal life-choices, and I'm not comfortable – personally, or as a society – being so callous as to say, "Well, you done muffed your life up, so: go **** yourself," if for no other reason than because I think that's a pretty damn juvenile and base way to approach living, other humans, et cetera.

[sturg33]

There really isn't quite as much help as you think for the impoverished addict who you seem to be, coincidentally, in favor of starving through lack of assistance.



That's all well and good as advice, but sometimes people don't make ideal life-choices, and I'm not comfortable – personally, or as a society – being so callous as to say, "Well, you done muffed your life up, so: go **** yourself," if for no other reason than because I think that's a pretty damn juvenile and base way to approach living, other humans, et cetera.

We know we know. We're all heartless assholes if we want anyone to have to pay the consequences of their bad decisions - rather than folks who didn't make the bad decision being forced to pay it for them

[weso1]

There really isn't quite as much help as you think for the impoverished addict who you seem to be, coincidentally, in favor of starving through lack of assistance.



That's all well and good as advice, but sometimes people don't make ideal life-choices, and I'm not comfortable – personally, or as a society – being so callous as to say, "Well, you done muffed your life up, so: go **** yourself," if for no other reason than because I think that's a pretty damn juvenile and base way to approach living, other humans, et cetera.

Or tapate's policy will actually save some lives, because people will be more willing to get help. It's not like people can't get food just because they don't get it from the federal government. A guy begging on the side of the road makes enough money to eat. He can still go to an ER to get healthcare. He can go to a private run homeless shelter. The idea that someone who is against federal government providing drug abusers welfare is callous, is extremely short sighted. You don't know their intentions and you don't know the result of the policy. But even if true I don't think it's more noble than your intent. I don't think an intent to free a guilty conscious is much better than a callousness.

[Tapate50]

There really isn't quite as much help as you think for the impoverished addict who you seem to be, coincidentally, in favor of starving through lack of assistance.



That's all well and good as advice, but sometimes people don't make ideal life-choices, and I'm not comfortable – personally, or as a society – being so callous as to say, "Well, you done muffed your life up, so: go **** yourself," if for no other reason than because I think that's a pretty damn juvenile and base way to approach living, other humans, et cetera.

But there is help, and people who will get you that help. I would rather give someone a reason to get help than provide them the means to continue down the current path. I'm not telling someone to go F themself, I'm telling them "here is where you can get clean and where you can come get benefits when you do" . Doesn't sound so harsh when you aren't typing it in an over dramatic and sarcastic tone does it?

After all , isn't getting clean the best help?

[yeezus]

Both are illegal. Drinking at night mostly won't affect me being employed the next day.

Have an accident on the job? Under the influence? See ya. Your gov't sponsored health plan will be picking up the tab, not the employer. You will also be subject to unemployment drug tests and won't get benefits if you test positive. What is wrong with that?

Under the current situation, your examples are apples and oranges.

Both of what are illegal? Drinking every night is illegal?
Smoking weed at night does not affect work performance any more than drinking at night does. One won't show up in your system more than a few hours, another can for a while.
What if someone has an accident on the job while drunk? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

[yeezus]

It's almost like everyone grows up in different circumstances and have different things happen to them.

Almost. Most people just grow up in cushy environments, and every mistake they make is completely their own.

I think it's hilarious, and this isn't directed at any one on here, but how republicans are the more bible-thumping jesus lovers, but truly lack compassion and understanding, two things jesus preached.

[thethe]

We know we know. We're all heartless assholes if we want anyone to have to pay the consequences of their bad decisions - rather than folks who didn't make the bad decision being forced to pay it for them

Amazing that we are the bad people because we don't have sympathy for those that make the same bad decisions that many of us have turned away from. PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY!

[thethe]

It's almost like everyone grows up in different circumstances and have different things happen to them.

Almost. Most people just grow up in cushy environments, and every mistake they make is completely their own.

I think it's hilarious, and this isn't directed at any one on here, but how republicans are the more bible-thumping jesus lovers, but truly lack compassion and understanding, two things jesus preached.

I'm by no means a religious person. I'm just someone who came from what some would say are less than ideal conditions and I came out just fine. Many many people have it worse than I did but ultimately I took ownership of my life and did what needed to be done to become self-sufficient.

[yeezus]

Amazing that we are the bad people because we don't have sympathy for those that make the same bad decisions that many of us have turned away from. PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY!

Some people are brought up in dynamics that make it far more likely they commit some sort of crime, or have mental issues, large or small. Not everyone has the parental support and care I had, basics+ always provided, a good group of friends at a young age, etc, etc.
Things out of people's control can happen and have a huge affect on them.

I've seen people who I know grew up like me, but still messed up their lives. I've seen people in much worse situations than me turn out great. I'm not saying every person who screws up one thing or another grew up in poverty, but not everyone grew up like me, or you, and sometimes it is a very legitimate excuse.

[thethe]

Some people are brought up in dynamics that make it far more likely they commit some sort of crime, or have mental issues, large or small. Not everyone has the parental support and care I had, basics+ always provided, a good group of friends at a young age, etc, etc.
Things out of people's control can happen and have a huge affect on them.

I've seen people who I know grew up like me, but still messed up their lives. I've seen people in much worse situations than me turn out great. I'm not saying every person who screws up one thing or another grew up in poverty, but not everyone grew up like me, or you, and sometimes it is a very legitimate excuse.

Ultimately, people need to look in the mirror and ask themselves what type of life they want. Everyone has that choice.

[yeezus]

I'm by no means a religious person. I'm just someone who came from what some would say are less than ideal conditions and I came out just fine. Many many people have it worse than I did but ultimately I took ownership of my life and did what needed to be done to become self-sufficient.

I said it wasn't directed at any one.

I grew up in less than ideal conditions, too. But there are people that experience far, far worse than you, and me.

It seems like some here are the type of people who would tell a depressed person, "hey! just get up and enjoy life! it's that easy!"
It's not that easy for someone who is depressed. I've never been, but I've known people and read things, and in my mind it's easy to say "well, just get out of bed. what's so difficult about that?" But minds are different.

[yeezus]

Ultimately, people need to look in the mirror and ask themselves what type of life they want. Everyone has that choice.

Unfortunately, the human mind is just NOT that simple.

[thethe]

Unfortunately, the human mind is just NOT that simple.

Thats just an excuse for some that don't want to devote their lives to bettering themselves. I'm all for helping the mentally ill and disabled people of this country but as a society we over diagnose everything. Everyone has ADD and everyone is depressed. I don't buy it. People just need to figure out how to deal with life. Life was never meant to be easy. As an 8 year old I found that out real quick when my mother died.

[goldfly]

we are still bitching about the peanuts we waste on welfare in this country?

really?

[goldfly]

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/goldfly66/8F6AA911-8BB2-43AE-95C1-55BD355A02FF-671-0000006E36665836_zps5c611a37.jpg

[thethe]

Why is the defense of social welfare programs, "LOOK AT ALL THIS OTHER MONEY WE SPEND!"

Can't we talk about how awful both are?

[thethe]

Further, while those subsidies are ridiculous and I have gone off many times about how the wealthy are really the ones that are running the world, at least the taxpayer sees a return on those subsidies. These companies employ us, we make money on their equities/bonds, and some contribute to the tax revenue of this country.

[yeezus]

Further, while those subsidies are ridiculous and I have gone off many times about how the wealthy are really the ones that are running the world, at least the taxpayer sees a return on those subsidies. These companies employ us, we make money on their equities/bonds, and some contribute to the tax revenue of this country.

LOL.
LOL.

[thethe]

What is not accurate about that statement?

[CK86]

Would much rather spend boatloads of money on helping the poor in this country rather than spending so much on defense.

[Krgrecw]

I would much rather have the recipients of welfare that don't have jobs; pick up trash, paint, habitat for humanity. At least make them do something. Even if it only improves thier neighborhood

[goldfly]

I would much rather have the recipients of welfare that don't have jobs; pick up trash, paint, habitat for humanity. At least make them do something. Even if it only improves thier neighborhood

i could get down with this

[thethe]

I would much rather have the recipients of welfare that don't have jobs; pick up trash, paint, habitat for humanity. At least make them do something. Even if it only improves thier neighborhood

Agreed. If there was some return on that investment it would be much more palatable.

[57Brave]

i could get down with this

That would have been the National Relief Organization that operated for a little over a year before being thrown out by the Supreme Court.
That would have been 1935-6 or 7

These controversies keep circling two issues: 1st) complete repudiation of the New Deal and later programs and 2nd) Race

I don't think the first really has anything to do with government assistance programs but more on regulation put on big business. But as long as Palin,Rush and Fox can keep voters coming to the polls to vote against assistance well, big business is more likely to get their way. Look at Wisconsin in the past coupe years. Who has benefitted from Scott Walker? The second is the driving vehicle -- or I guess you could say gateway drug. Keep the mobs agitated any way you can -- and what better way than black vs white.

You see , it's not about people getting free stuff - it is which people get free stuff=how they get free stuff and how it affects all of us. In very major ways In this case support seems to be going goes to the people that just as soon abolish weekends and child labor laws

[Krgrecw]

It's not about race 57. It's about people who get but don't give. They call in all sizes and colors.

[weso1]

Would much rather spend boatloads of money on helping the poor in this country rather than spending so much on defense.

I'd rather just have the money back in my wallet and spend more on my own charity of choice.

[weso1]

It's almost like everyone grows up in different circumstances and have different things happen to them.

Almost. Most people just grow up in cushy environments, and every mistake they make is completely their own.

I think it's hilarious, and this isn't directed at any one on here, but how republicans are the more bible-thumping jesus lovers, but truly lack compassion and understanding, two things jesus preached.

Because you don't seem to understand that there are other ways to provide compassion to folks other than through federal assistance programs which meet your standards of compassion. Again this idea that liberals have that just because you are against current FEDERAL WELFARE policy automatically makes you callous is incredibly short sighted.

Why not argue actual points conservatives have about enabling than trying to find meaningless hypocrisies that don't exist to score some internet points. I mean you wouldn't give money to your drug addicted family member without some sort of path toward sobriety, right? So why is it so harsh when I expect something similar whilest giving money to complete strangers?

[weso1]

I would much rather have the recipients of welfare that don't have jobs; pick up trash, paint, habitat for humanity. At least make them do something. Even if it only improves thier neighborhood

Drug test them and give them jobs people don't want to do. Crump keeps talking about compromise, well here it is. The only negative is that you create a slippery slope toward socialism. But are the people who are receiving benefits without working going to vote for those who support this? What do you do with those who are able, but just simply refuse to work. The guilty conscious of liberals will never let them live without making others pay for the lazy lives of a few.

[weso1]

That would have been the National Relief Organization that operated for a little over a year before being thrown out by the Supreme Court.
That would have been 1935-6 or 7

These controversies keep circling two issues: 1st) complete repudiation of the New Deal and later programs and 2nd) Race

I don't think the first really has anything to do with government assistance programs but more on regulation put on big business. But as long as Palin,Rush and Fox can keep voters coming to the polls to vote against assistance well, big business is more likely to get their way. Look at Wisconsin in the past coupe years. Who has benefitted from Scott Walker? The second is the driving vehicle -- or I guess you could say gateway drug. Keep the mobs agitated any way you can -- and what better way than black vs white.

You see , it's not about people getting free stuff - it is which people get free stuff=how they get free stuff and how it affects all of us. In very major ways In this case support seems to be going goes to the people that just as soon abolish weekends and child labor laws

So the compromise is don't give anyone free stuff. I'm down with that. Problem solved.

[Tapate50]

If I raise my child by coddling them at every turn, and rewarding them for bad behavior, what kind of child will I produce most likely? (Besides a child with terrible comma usage)

[50PoundHead]

I think there is a big difference between coddling and rewarding for bad behavior, but I get the basic drift of what you're saying.

[57Brave]

So the compromise is don't give anyone free stuff. I'm down with that. Problem solved.

I should have put free stuff in quotes to read "free stuff"

[Tapate50]

I think there is a big difference between coddling and rewarding for bad behavior, but I get the basic drift of what you're saying.

Thank you. I am not necessarily a wordsmith like weso and Julio. Give me a little leeway.

I would much rather give people the tools to improve than toss them a few bucks and hope the problem goes away. Handouts just foster a hand out mentality.

[The Chosen One]

Thank you. I am not necessarily a wordsmith like weso and Julio. Give me a little leeway.

I would much rather give people the tools to improve than toss them a few bucks and hope the problem goes away. Handouts just foster a hand out mentality.

I think most progressives/liberals here and in general would agree with you.

Too bad the conservative media wants you to believe we don't believe in hard work nor capitalism.

[jpx7]

Why not argue actual points conservatives have about enabling

Because I find this whole "enabling" excuse that you're crowing about to be the exactly as "short-sighted" as you find my anti-callousness rhetoric to be; indeed, it seems exactly like "meaningless hypocrisy" to me.

So: impasse.

[jpx7]

I would much rather give people the tools to improve than toss them a few bucks

They're not mutually exclusive; we should be doing both.


Handouts just foster a hand out mentality.

This is the blanket generalization I dispute.

[yeezus]

Thats just an excuse for some that don't want to devote their lives to bettering themselves. I'm all for helping the mentally ill and disabled people of this country but as a society we over diagnose everything. Everyone has ADD and everyone is depressed. I don't buy it. People just need to figure out how to deal with life. Life was never meant to be easy. As an 8 year old I found that out real quick when my mother died.

So do not believe mental disorders exist?
Again, you sound like the type of person who believes no one is actually depressed, and they can change it easily if they try! That's just a flat-out stupid notion.

[thethe]

No, there is a clear delineation between someone who is a paranoid schizophrenic and someone who is depressed because nothing goes there way. I understand there are those with actual issues but the fact that the pharmaceutical industry has convinced the world that they have an issue doesn't mean that I believe it.

[50PoundHead]

No, there is a clear delineation between someone who is a paranoid schizophrenic and someone who is depressed because nothing goes there way. I understand there are those with actual issues but the fact that the pharmaceutical industry has convinced the world that they have an issue doesn't mean that I believe it.

That's not depression and while there may be some psychiatrists that will prescribe drug therapy to such a person, it would be irresponsible. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the state of mental health care in this country is absolutely deplorable. What happened in Virginia the other day to the state legislator and his son is really inexcusable in a civilized society.

[yeezus]

No, there is a clear delineation between someone who is a paranoid schizophrenic and someone who is depressed because nothing goes there way. I understand there are those with actual issues but the fact that the pharmaceutical industry has convinced the world that they have an issue doesn't mean that I believe it.

Unfortunately, doctors and psychologists - not just the pharma industry - recognize these problems, too.
But yeah, those who are depressed can just snap out of it. Those who were sexually assaulted as a child should just get over it and not be affected by it.
I completely buy in to the power of the mind and how huge a change it can make in things. However, I also realize it's an extremely complicated and tough obstacle for some people who have experienced worse things than I have.
It sucks your mother died so young. That is a tough thing to deal with.
But, add that problem to growing up in poverty, having no one around that really cares, looking at those around you and seeing them on hard drugs, or not giving a ****, and any number of the countless things people experience.
You saying "get over it" is so simple-minded it's mind-blowing. You cannot sit there and tell someone to "get over it and simply work harder" if you have never been through what they've been through or walked in their shoes. You have no idea what it's like for people who have been through far tougher things than you've experienced. Saying "screw you, you messed up" is sad.

[thethe]

That's not depression and while there may be some psychiatrists that will prescribe drug therapy to such a person, it would be irresponsible. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the state of mental health care in this country is absolutely deplorable. What happened in Virginia the other day to the state legislator and his son is really inexcusable in a civilized society.

I agree that is not depression but without having any way of quantifying it I would imagine that there is a subset of the depressed population that falls under this category. That is why its hard for me to make a general statement that becuase someone claims depression I should take it easy on them.

[jpx7]

rather than folks who didn't make the bad decision being forced to pay it for them

See, this sort of self-aggrandizing is what I find ultimately to be at the core of a lot of libertarian and/or don't-help-people ideologies: I made good decisions, so why shouldn't everyone else have? I prospered, so those that didn't deserve the punishment of their failure.

The fact is, as yeezus alludes, we who aren't in bad situations are all lucky to some degree; a combination of factors – genetics, environment; nature and nurture – have allowed us to make more "good" decisions than "bad" ones, and more importantly to recognize which decisions are really beneficial to us, and which are really detrimental. Sure, force of will, determination, et cetera may be at work as well, but those very qualities were informed and cultivated through everything that has ever happened to you or me, and everybody's experiences with this universe are different.

I'm not really trying to paint you, or anyone else in this thread, as an asshole: I just can't really comprehend this seeming comfort with (and, from some sources outside this board, seeming getting off at) the suffering of those who suffer, simply because their suffering conforms to one's sense of life-justice or moral appropriateness, simply because one has personally calculated another's "just deserts," simply because they "had it coming."

I'm not saying the safety-net in this country is perfect, or needs no reform, or that we should in no way incentive assistance, promote personal development, and seek to limit authentic malfeasance where we think we've found it; but I am saying that I really think some of you are too cavalier in assuming you know, or can easily discern, whether someone deserves something or not, what merits what, and how easy or difficult it is to rise above the victim-hood of individual circumstances, even if you yourself in your limited and specific case have done so.

[thethe]

Unfortunately, doctors and psychologists - not just the pharma industry - recognize these problems, too.
But yeah, those who are depressed can just snap out of it. Those who were sexually assaulted as a child should just get over it and not be affected by it.
I completely buy in to the power of the mind and how huge a change it can make in things. However, I also realize it's an extremely complicated and tough obstacle for some people who have experienced worse things than I have.
It sucks your mother died so young. That is a tough thing to deal with.
But, add that problem to growing up in poverty, having no one around that really cares, looking at those around you and seeing them on hard drugs, or not giving a ****, and any number of the countless things people experience.
You saying "get over it" is so simple-minded it's mind-blowing. You cannot sit there and tell someone to "get over it and simply work harder" if you have never been through what they've been through or walked in their shoes. You have no idea what it's like for people who have been through far tougher things than you've experienced. Saying "screw you, you messed up" is sad.

That was just one thing that happened to me in my life. Nobody needs to know or quite frankly cares about other issues that I have had to deal with in my life.

In the end, every person has control of their lives. Some were given a worse deck of cards than others but aside from severe mental & physical disabilities every person can make the correct decisions in their lives to become relatively successful.

[yeezus]

Another thing, those who don't grow up hard can mess up countless times, but not have it screw their life over due to parents that can pay for something, or resources available to them. Many people don't have this luxury. They screw up, and it starts a downward spiral. The dynamics in these situations are very complicated, and simply saying "yeah, but they should get over it and work harder!" is just stupid, and that's it.

[yeezus]

That was just one thing that happened to me in my life. Nobody needs to know or quite frankly cares about other issues that I have had to deal with in my life.

In the end, every person has control of their lives. Some were given a worse deck of cards than others but aside from severe mental & physical disabilities every person can make the correct decisions in their lives to become relatively successful.

I don't disagree with any of that.
You seem to think it's easy just because you were able to do it.
For many, many people, it is extremely difficult. So stop judging people because they didn't do things the way you did or they can't put things together the way you did. It's a ****ty mindset.

[yeezus]

**** YOUR LIFE, I NEEDED THAT $36 FOR GOLF. OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[thethe]

So I'm supposed to feel sympathy for those that fall under this category? How am I supposed to feel?

[thethe]

I don't disagree with any of that.
You seem to think it's easy just because you were able to do it.
For many, many people, it is extremely difficult. So stop judging people because they didn't do things the way you did or they can't put things together the way you did. It's a ****ty mindset.

I never said it was easy. It sure as hell wasn't easy for me.

When did we all of a sudden come to the conclusion that life should be easy?

[jpx7]

So I'm supposed to feel sympathy for those that fall under this category? How am I supposed to feel?

Personally, I'm not saying we should regulate your feelings; that's between you and your sense of rightness. I'm saying we should regulate society such that assistance is there for those who need it and can use it; and we should – societally – be generous and not miserly, because there are so many barriers to adequate and complete understanding of individual situations.

[jpx7]

When did we all of a sudden come to the conclusion that life should be easy?

Society exists, in its most basic state, to make life easier on each other: that is why hominids evolved into political animals. I'm not sure why it's a bad goal, on a societal level, to mitigate the harshness of life for each other as much as possible — and I'd think someone with so many warm feelings might agree.

[thethe]

Personally, I'm not saying we should regulate your feelings; that's between you and your sense of rightness. I'm saying we should regulate society such that assistance is there for those who need it and can use it; and we should – societally – be generous and not miserly, because there are so many barriers to adequate and complete understanding of individual situations.

But the issue that I have is that throwing money at the problem like most other things in life doesn't usually solve it. If there was additional reform that required some form of return to the taxpayers then I could possibly live with it depending on what that plan was. What doesn't work is just throwing money at this issue without any obligation or responsibility for those who are receiving the benefits.

[thethe]

Society exists, in its most basic state, to make life easier on each other: that is why hominids evolved into political animals. I'm not sure why it's a bad goal, on a societal level, to mitigate the harshness of life for each other as much as possible — and I'd think someone with so many warm feelings might agree.

Yes, but what we evolved from what an even more harsh sense of life. The current form of our civilization has produced many different conduits to change your current state of affairs.

[jpx7]

But the issue that I have is that throwing money at the problem like most other things in life doesn't usually solve it. If there was additional reform that required some form of return to the taxpayers then I could possibly live with it depending on what that plan was. What doesn't work is just throwing money at this issue without any obligation or responsibility for those who are receiving the benefits.

And it might be easier to enact such a structure if half the politicians weren't fuming about the need for the utter destruction of the safety-net; that sort of rhetoric prevents any discussion of real reform.

On the other hand: both halves are unlikely to be interested in discussing real reform, since that might make their enslavement to the oligarchy even more transparent.

[jpx7]

The current form of our civilization has produced many different conduits to change your current state of affairs.

Perhaps; but why be satisfied with the current form? Why not explore producing more and better conduits?

[thethe]

And it might be easier to enact such a structure if half the politicians weren't fuming about the need for the utter destruction of the safety-net; that sort of rhetoric prevents any discussion of real reform.

On the other hand: both halves are unlikely to be interested in discussing real reform, since that might make their enslavement to the oligarchy even more transparent.

So true.

[thethe]

Perhaps; but why be satisfied with the current form? Why not explore producing more and better conduits?

Thats fine...lets figure out what that is. Because from what I can tell the current system of welfare is not really bettering peoples lives. Its just prolonging their malaise.

[Tapate50]

I think most progressives/liberals here and in general would agree with you.

Too bad the conservative media wants you to believe we don't believe in hard work nor capitalism.

I freely think. I don't listen\watch\read any media for my politics.

If I did, I would hardly look at the media in general as "conservative".

[50PoundHead]

That was just one thing that happened to me in my life. Nobody needs to know or quite frankly cares about other issues that I have had to deal with in my life.

In the end, every person has control of their lives. Some were given a worse deck of cards than others but aside from severe mental & physical disabilities every person can make the correct decisions in their lives to become relatively successful.

This is where I'll disagree with you. There are some hands, that while having the same number of cards as everyone else as the table, can't be played and the challenges go beyond physical or mental disabilities.

There's an interesting movement picking up steam on both the intellectual left and the intellectual right and that's the idea of what has historically been termed a "guaranteed minimuml income." The government would provide everyone with a certain stipend which they could spend as they see fit, but things like food stamps and subsidized housing would go away. Put simply, people would be given the wherewithal to purchase goods within the free market.

For those of you on the right who want to poo-poo this, have a seance and talk to the ghosts of Milton Friedman and Friederich Hayek, who both suggested this approach. Conservative sociologist Charles Murray has been the latest to promote this from the right.

Curious to see if this gets any legs.

[jpx7]

Thats fine...lets figure out what that is. Because from what I can tell the current system of welfare is not really bettering peoples lives. Its just prolonging their malaise.

There are vastly fewer impoverished in the US now than one-hundred years ago, and the implementation of a safety-net has been the dominant cause. Improving said net is possible, and should be pursued, but the first step isn't to snatch it away and tear it up.

[Tapate50]

They're not mutually exclusive; we should be doing both.



This is the blanket generalization I dispute.
Agree they are not, and I disagree. Until proven clean anyway...

Cool, but I disagree.

[thethe]

There are vastly fewer impoverished in the US now than one-hundred years ago, and the implementation of a safety-net has been the dominant cause. Improving said net is possible, and should be pursued, but the first step isn't to snatch it away and tear it up.

I don't see how you can say what the predominant factor was in that fact. There are probably hundreds of factors that played into that.

[AerchAngel]

This is why Bedell doesn't want to post here. Steak Sauce constantly projects opinions of other people onto us and then tries to mock us for it. He has an assumption of what we are thinking before we think it. At least use our own words to mock us like crump does... :Alone:

This is why I don't bother either. You cannot have a good conversation when Steak Sauce appears. It is like you are want to get your freak on with bone Kate Upton, than Steak Stauce, aka Roseann Barr shows up instead nekkid.

He is by far the most leftist individual and lacks the most common sense of any individual I have ever read on any message board.

[The Chosen One]

This is why I don't bother either. You cannot have a good conversation when Steak Sauce appears. It is like you are want to get your freak on with bone Kate Upton, than Steak Stauce, aka Roseann Barr shows up instead nekkid.

He is by far the most leftist individual and lacks the most common sense of any individual I have ever read on any message board.

It's probably how most people in the Senate feel when Ted Cruz walks in.

[AerchAngel]

It's probably how most people in the Senate feel when Ted Cruz walks in.

Who's Ted Cruz? I do not follow parties any more. I gave up dealing with either side and their simpletons. I know Rand Paul and Chris Christie and of course Obummer/Pelosi/Reid aka three headed circus.

[57Brave]

It's probably how most people in the Senate feel when Ted Cruz walks in.

TED CRUZ !!!!
that's cold

[goldfly]

I'd rather just have the money back in my wallet and spend more on my own charity of choice.

i would rather my tax dollars not go to the bloated and wasteful defense budget

want to cry with me about not getting to pick and choose where each one of our tax dollars goes?

[weso1]

i would rather my tax dollars not go to the bloated and wasteful defense budget

want to cry with me about not getting to pick and choose where each one of our tax dollars goes?

Yes. Where should we meet?

[Tapate50]

Yes. Where should we meet?

Don't cry. It is unbecoming.

[goldfly]

Yes. Where should we meet?

fulton county stadium parking lot

[weso1]

fulton county stadium parking lot

I would, but I'm afraid the black teens in south Atlanta will knock me out.

[acesfull86]

I would, but I'm afraid the black teens in south Atlanta will knock me out.

You should be OK if you carry a gun, like this guy (http://www.wilx.com/news/featured/headlines/Dangerous-Game---Point-em-Out-Knock-em-Out-231443411.html)

On February 26th a man waiting for his six-year-old daughter to to dropped off from school had no idea he would be the city's first reported victim.

The victim was attacked by 17-year-old Marvell Weaver. But Weaver did more than try to knock his victim out, he tried to do it with a taser. Luckily for the victim, the taser didn't work and he was able to protect himself with his concealed-carry .40 caliber pistol.

"He shoved something into my side. I wasn't sure what it was. It had some force to it. I wasn't sure if it was a knife or a gun," said the victim.

Weaver was shot twice, in the leg and an inch away from his spine. He's been sentenced to a year in jail for the attack, but he admits he's getting off easy.

"It was just a lesson learned. I wish I hadn't played the game at all," said Weaver.

[Tapate50]

I would, but I'm afraid the black teens in south Atlanta will knock me out.

It isn't the teens you need to work about. The women!

http://youtu.be/M9K47vh2_J0

Seriously though, she drags him down the street. Just damn

[BedellBrave]

I would, but I'm afraid the black teens in south Atlanta will knock me out.


Baiting Meta there aren't you?

[AerchAngel]

This is where I'll disagree with you. There are some hands, that while having the same number of cards as everyone else as the table, can't be played and the challenges go beyond physical or mental disabilities.

There's an interesting movement picking up steam on both the intellectual left and the intellectual right and that's the idea of what has historically been termed a "guaranteed minimuml income." The government would provide everyone with a certain stipend which they could spend as they see fit, but things like food stamps and subsidized housing would go away. Put simply, people would be given the wherewithal to purchase goods within the free market.

For those of you on the right who want to poo-poo this, have a seance and talk to the ghosts of Milton Friedman and Friederich Hayek, who both suggested this approach. Conservative sociologist Charles Murray has been the latest to promote this from the right.

Curious to see if this gets any legs.

Pandora's Box

[Tapate50]

50pound,

What happens in that movement when they blow their stipend and don't get healthcare/ins/ food with that stipend? Is there another safety net? Are we going to be "callous" with them after that? I'd be interested to know.

[thethe]

50pound,

What happens in that movement when they blow their stipend and don't get healthcare/ins/ food with that stipend? Is there another safety net? Are we going to be "callous" with them after that? I'd be interested to know.

Thats the real question. Is it then ok to say that we've given what is deemed appropriate and therefore they should deal with the bed they have made?

[jpx7]

50pound,

What happens in that movement when they blow their stipend and don't get healthcare/ins/ food with that stipend? Is there another safety net? Are we going to be "callous" with them after that? I'd be interested to know.

The idea 50 mentions is intriguing, but your question is one of the reasons why I don't think this stipend plan is ultimately a great idea. I think providing fundamental services at public expense is a better use of public coffers than a stipend.

Provide what is necessary; let people work for their (and even tax their) luxuries.

[AerchAngel]

50pound,

What happens in that movement when they blow their stipend ON DRUGS OR ALCHOHOL and don't get healthcare/ins/ food with that stipend? Is there another safety net? Are we going to be "callous" with them after that? I'd be interested to know.

Sorry had to fix that for you.

[AerchAngel]

The idea 50 mentions is intriguing, but your question is one of the reasons why I don't think this stipend plan is ultimately a great idea. I think providing fundamental services at public expense is a better use of public coffers than a stipend.

Provide what is necessary; let people work for their (and even tax their) luxuries.

you see, I do have some liberalism in me, I do not mind helping those who really need it, but seeing freeloaders with Caddy Escalades and their kids wearing $200 pair of Nikes makes me wonder where the hell they get their free money. If you want these luxuries, pay for them.

[thethe]

you see, I do have some liberalism in me, I do not mind helping those who really need it, but seeing freeloaders with Caddy Escalades and their kids wearing $200 pair of Nikes makes me wonder where the hell they get their free money. If you want these luxuries, pay for them.

And, if you made these people work for their benefits you would all of a sudden see them be more motivated to get some jobs.

[50PoundHead]

50pound,

What happens in that movement when they blow their stipend and don't get healthcare/ins/ food with that stipend? Is there another safety net? Are we going to be "callous" with them after that? I'd be interested to know.

You'd have to ask those who are promoting it. My guess is, "Sorry bud. You blew your stipend. Soup line is over there." I think where Murray is coming from (seeing Friedman can't go anywhere anymore) is that you give people a stipend to consume in the free market instead of having to consume from particular government "nanny state" programs (had to throw in "nanny state" because I know you guys like that term. LOL.).

The folks at place like the Mises Institute don't care for this because it's still government money. I think Murray likes it because he believes it will provide basic necessities and dismantle the welfare state dispensary. Instead of getting food stamps, you'd get money for food. Blow it on drugs, you don't get any food.

[weso1]

Baiting Meta there aren't you?

:icwudt:

[Krgrecw]

What I'd do:
First. fix the retail aspect: on assistance with aid you can only get this and this. No shrimp, smokes etc. only these product upcs will scan. No way around it. Store brands as much as possible. Get all the companies and technology people together and unlike the Obamacare rollout make sure it works

Second. Make it a real crime for stores/people that abuse the system. If a store engages in trading cash for food stamps pull the stores liqour license. If a person tries to sell Thier aid for cash, 30 days in jail.

Third. Make the people that are physically able to do something, do something even if it is only in Thier neighborhood: paint, pick up trash, habitat for humanity etc. make them sign in.

As a fascist I'm against this one but it needs to be done:
Fourth. Offer financial rewards to students that excel. give kids on aid $1000 for graduating highschool on time. for grades 8 and up $200 every year they complete the year with a 3.5 gpa or higher. Let them know there's rewards for doing the right thing. give the parents the same money as the kids so they make actually care and are invested. Any kid that completes the calendar year with only missing 5 or less school days regardless of Thier GpA $200. Any violent offenses, drug offenses, guns etc regardless of the kids gpa makes them ineiligble for any rewards

Fifth: all families and Thier kids 12 and up, need to attend programs twice a year on personal finance. Teach them about credit, taxes, how to live within your means. Have job fairs there. Make it mandatory.

Sixth. Actually increase aid for people who have had the same consistent job for over 12 months. Take the increase away if they quit or get fired. That may seem off, but at least this person is working and paying some kind of tax. Reward them for actually trying and doing the right thing.




The problem can't be fixed. You can't pull aid from La Disha because she might be crap but what about her kids? Do they deserve to be screwed?

The only way that I possibly see any improvements is by letting the kids know about the importance of school and education. I would think, that today, the kids in the inner city that excel at school don't suddenly turn gangster when high school is over with. They go onto a secondary school. The object is to get more kids on that path. A decent percent of kids on aid will turn out to be pieces of ****, it's one big cycle. I personally think any highschool kid convicted of a serious gun, violence, assault, drug charge should automatically be inelgibile to play any highschool sports

The liberals will never vote to penalize LaKiesha even if she has four kids from four different guys by the age of 18.

[AerchAngel]

What I'd do:




The liberals will never vote to penalize LaKiesha even if she has four kids from four different guys by the age of 18.

It would take away from their voting block. Keep'em dumb, they will vote for you.

[50PoundHead]

What I'd do:
First. fix the retail aspect: on assistance with aid you can only get this and this. No shrimp, smokes etc. only these product upcs will scan. No way around it. Store brands as much as possible. Get all the companies and technology people together and unlike the Obamacare rollout make sure it works

Second. Make it a real crime for stores/people that abuse the system. If a store engages in trading cash for food stamps pull the stores liqour license. If a person tries to sell Thier aid for cash, 30 days in jail.

Third. Make the people that are physically able to do something, do something even if it is only in Thier neighborhood: paint, pick up trash, habitat for humanity etc. make them sign in.

As a fascist I'm against this one but it needs to be done:
Fourth. Offer financial rewards to students that excel. give kids on aid $1000 for graduating highschool on time. for grades 8 and up $200 every year they complete the year with a 3.5 gpa or higher. Let them know there's rewards for doing the right thing. give the parents the same money as the kids so they make actually care and are invested. Any kid that completes the calendar year with only missing 5 or less school days regardless of Thier GpA $200. Any violent offenses, drug offenses, guns etc regardless of the kids gpa makes them ineiligble for any rewards

Fifth: all families and Thier kids 12 and up, need to attend programs twice a year on personal finance. Teach them about credit, taxes, how to live within your means. Have job fairs there. Make it mandatory.

Sixth. Actually increase aid for people who have had the same consistent job for over 12 months. Take the increase away if they quit or get fired. That may seem off, but at least this person is working and paying some kind of tax. Reward them for actually trying and doing the right thing.




The problem can't be fixed. You can't pull aid from La Disha because she might be crap but what about her kids? Do they deserve to be screwed?

The only way that I possibly see any improvements is by letting the kids know about the importance of school and education. I would think, that today, the kids in the inner city that excel at school don't suddenly turn gangster when high school is over with. They go onto a secondary school. The object is to get more kids on that path. A decent percent of kids on aid will turn out to be pieces of ****, it's one big cycle. I personally think any highschool kid convicted of a serious gun, violence, assault, drug charge should automatically be inelgibile to play any highschool sports

The liberals will never vote to penalize LaKiesha even if she has four kids from four different guys by the age of 18.

In the promotion of racial balance, I'll have to mention that Peggy Sue McMethmouth should be accorded the same treatment.

[goldfly]

Krgrecw do you think only black people are on welfare?

[AerchAngel]

Krgrecw do you think only black people are on welfare?

The ones he is mentioning are, and I am not going to defend him as he does have racists tendencies like myself, but you cannot refute what he said.

Blacks come in three groups and sadly enough it depends on where you brought up from. Not 100 percent but close to it.

Those from the burbs are more educated, have two parent homes and pretty much good in school.

Those from small towns like myself, are like the above but at a lower level, lets say above is 100%, small towns are like 80%.

Those from the hood, you might get 10 to 20 percent that falls in the two categories above, but that is pushing it.

As with whites, trade hood with trailer parks, same outcome, different circumstances, you will have crime, but in different aspects.

The alarming issue is that black leaders including the president himself do not want to address these issues, because keeping blacks down or an object they can exploit, means more money in their pockets. You can see this by how they pick and choose their battles. If you bring up black on black crime or worse black on white crime, you will get crickets, but if you see a white person do something against a black person, all hands on deck approach. This sickens me and this is why we will continue to have racism in this country. Until our black leaders grow a pair and look at ourselves in the mirror, maybe we can have a better standing against our white brethren. I live in an almost all white community and have only encountered one issue with my race and that person got a ear full from it from me, my wife and my wife friends. They did not know better and now we are friends. He thought I was freeloading off my wife and that I was in between jobs, fathered kids out of wedlock, running from the law and other nonsense, but when I took in his words, I understood where he was coming from that this is how he viewed blacks. If we do not give him fodder to see us as he thought, then it would never come up, but in the end he was right a lot of blacks fit his view.

[acesfull86]

I know a white LaKiesa. I don't know what you guys are talking about.

[AerchAngel]

I know a white LaKiesa. I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Let me guess, she is pushing 3 bills on the scale, correct?