Around Baseball Offseason Edition - Derek Jeter will retire at seasons end

[The Chosen One]

Your one stop place to talk about everything non-Braves related in trades, FA signings, etc.

[Tapate50]

Travis Sawchik of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review was told by Josh Johnson's agent that the Pirates are one of the finalists to sign his client

[ramadon101]

MLBTradeRumors had a passing reference to the Braves making an offer to LaTroy Hawkins, which I think was interesting (before he was signed by the Rockies).

[thethe]

Travis Sawchik of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review was told by Josh Johnson's agent that the Pirates are one of the finalists to sign his client

I really do believe the Braves should make a big one year offer to Johnson with a team option for a second year. He is the wildcard that could end up pushing the Braves over the edge for a world series.

[Tapate50]

I really do believe the Braves should make a big one year offer to Johnson with a team option for a second year. He is the wildcard that could end up pushing the Braves over the edge for a world series.

I like the fact he won't cost a pick, or a prospect. I am all for either of those being caveats of a move. Plus, if he pitches well we can sell him off at the deadline if we are out of it no harm done. Flip the script and we can offer him arby next year if he is lights out.

[CrimsonCowboy]

The Phillies have signed both Marlon Byrd and Carlos Ruiz. In a related story, the Phillies have signed Depends and the AARP as official sponsors.:icon_biggrin:

[Tapate50]

Mac signs! Pairing him with Molina!

Cardinals re-signed CB Bryan McCann.
WR Teddy Williams (Achilles') was placed on injured reserve in a corresponding roster move. Originally signed in April, McCann was released at final cuts. McCann has 29 games of NFL experience, and will contribute on special teams in the desert.









:pimp:

[emk418]

I really do believe the Braves should make a big one year offer to Johnson with a team option for a second year. He is the wildcard that could end up pushing the Braves over the edge for a world series.

I don't see it happening but with guys like Alex Wood and Hale ready for a shot at the rotation i think Josh Johnson is worth the risk. We would have solid depth behind him and can afford the risk.

[Hawk]

MLBTR's Tim Dierkes 'hears' ('scuse me while I piss myself laughing) that all of the teams vying for Josh Johnson are in the NL.

In other news, have to believe the Braves are interested, and wouldn't be surprised if we signed him or were later named as a finalist.

[PawPawMaxwell]

MLBTR's Tim Dierkes 'hears' ('scuse me while I piss myself laughing) that all of the teams vying for Josh Johnson are in the NL.

In other news, have to believe the Braves are interested, and wouldn't be surprised if we signed him or were later named as a finalist.

Should not be too big of a surprise. Johnson himself stated for record that he would prefer to return to NL to rebuild his value. I dont know if this would be simply because of the DH but recall that it seemed an interesting comment.

[Tapate50]

Should not be too big of a surprise. Johnson himself stated for record that he would prefer to return to NL to rebuild his value. I dont know if this would be simply because of the DH but recall that it seemed an interesting comment.

HIS agent reached out to San Diego and Pitt to tell them those were his first choices (apparently). Sounds like he wants to play in spacious Petco.

[Knucksie]

I really do believe the Braves should make a big one year offer to Johnson with a team option for a second year. He is the wildcard that could end up pushing the Braves over the edge for a world series.



I like the fact he won't cost a pick, or a prospect. I am all for either of those being caveats of a move. Plus, if he pitches well we can sell him off at the deadline if we are out of it no harm done. Flip the script and we can offer him arby next year if he is lights out.

So much for the non-Braves discussion, but does anybody know if Wren have any Marlin-days connection with Josh Johnson. Too lazy to look.

[Tapate50]

So much for the non-Braves discussion, but does anybody know if Wren have any Marlin-days connection with Josh Johnson. Too lazy to look.

Well, not to nitpick but he hasn't signed with any team yet. So (TO ME), that would include JJ chatter and its ramifications.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Indians signing David Murphy to a two year deal

[CrimsonCowboy]

Per Jerry Crasnick, Josh Johnson has agreed to a one year, $8M guaranteed deal with the Padres

[yeezus]

Wow I would have taken a flyer on him for 8.5. He will really get his value up there.

[Heyward]

Good risk for the Padres.

1/8 isnt bad at all.

Especially in the NL West and those parks.

[yeezus]

If Johnson makes less than 7 starts, the Padres get a club option for 2015 at $4 mil.

[cajunrevenge]

Thats a good move by both Johnson and the Padres. Health permitting he probably has a career year then the Yankees will throw 100 million at him and be shocked when he spends more than half his contract on the DL.

[thethe]

Damn, there goes the guy I wanted.

I'd see if Johan would take a similar deal.

[stpeteirish]

Wow I would have taken a flyer on him for 8.5. He will really get his value up there.

sounds like he picked the Pads because of the ballpark, so we couldn't have done much to get him.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Damn, there goes the guy I wanted.

I'd see if Johan would take a similar deal.
No indications that Braves even sniffed at Johnson, therefore I seriously doubt they have any interest at all in Santana.

[nsacpi]

Damn, there goes the guy I wanted.

I'd see if Johan would take a similar deal.

Santana and Halladay are very different propositions from Josh Johnson. Those guys have serious arm problems and are also much older. Not much value there.

With Johnson off the board, there really is no free agent out there I'm enthusiastic about. At this point I'd rather go into spring training with a rotation of Medlen, Beachy, Minor, Teheran and Wood. With Hale as the spare.

[Bye Week]

Johnson is toast.

I predict we sign Bronson Arroyo or Dan Haren as our veteran filer in the rotation

[50PoundHead]

Still some guys out there I'd take a flyer on. Curious to see if Scott Baker has recovered.

Agree that Johnson would have been a great fit. Guys I'd look at are Haren, Harang, Kazmir, and Hughes.

Anyone know how badly James McDonald's shoulder injury was and if he's recovered? He'd be a good low-risk guy if he's healthy.

[nsacpi]

Guys I'd look at are Haren, Harang, Kazmir, and Hughes.



Are any of those guys likely to be better than Wood in 2014? If not, are we signing them as depth/pen guys?

[50PoundHead]

Better or better value? I think the chances of Haren and Kazmir being better than Wood are probably at least 50/50. Harang and Hughes probably less so.

[Tapate50]

Daniel Murphy just got 2\12 contract from the Indians for hitting .220\.282\.374 last year. What does that do to Uggla's value? I wouldn't think it could hurt it...

[nsacpi]

Better or better value? I think the chances of Haren and Kazmir being better than Wood are probably at least 50/50. Harang and Hughes probably less so.

Better. I didn't ask about better value because the answer there is pretty obvious. Yeah. Haren and Kazmir are pretty good. Harang I just don't see as adding much. Hughes is intriguing. I guess the issue with these guys might be how many years they can get in this market.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Daniel Murphy just got 2\12 contract from the Indians for hitting .220\.282\.374 last year. What does that do to Uggla's value? I wouldn't think it could hurt it...

Looking better all the time. Isnt much of a stretch to see us eating no more than half.

[50PoundHead]

Better. I didn't ask about better value because the answer there is pretty obvious. Yeah. Haren and Kazmir are pretty good. Harang I just don't see as adding much. Hughes is intriguing. I guess the issue with these guys might be how many years they can get in this market.

The key question. Of these guys, I think Harang is the only guy who would settle for one. He'd be a veteran presence and maybe that's about it. I think his upside is that he can eat some innings when healthy.

Interesting deal for Murphy.

[yeezus]

Daniel Murphy just got 2\12 contract from the Indians for hitting .220\.282\.374 last year. What does that do to Uggla's value? I wouldn't think it could hurt it...

Uggla makes more than 2X that, is a worse hitter, and much worse defender.

[Hawk]

No indications that Braves even sniffed at Johnson, therefore I seriously doubt they have any interest at all in Santana.

Surprising not to hear the Braves mentioned at all in relation to Johnson. Makes me wonder who they are looking at.

[nsacpi]

Surprising not to hear the Braves mentioned at all in relation to Johnson. Makes me wonder who they are looking at.

Wren has said he doesn't see much value in this year's crop of free agents. The salary inflation we've seen so far has probably reinforced that view. My guess is they will make a trade for a pitcher.

Who might that pitcher be? The Bravos already tried to acquire Lohse last season. So he is one possibility. We have an extra young catcher in Bethancourt. But the Brewers seem set at catcher with Lucroy.

There are other possibilities that have not received much discussion. If the Cubs fail to reach a long-term deal with Samardzija, they might put him on the market. I like his upside. A package involving Bethancourt and a pitching prospect not named Sims might be a fair deal for both teams.

[50PoundHead]

Count me among those who just doesn't trade Bethancourt.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Bethancourt hasnt played above AA. Seems that even tho he is one our top prospects I doubt he has much value to ML teams yet.

[nsacpi]

Bethancourt hasnt played above AA. Seems that even tho he is one our top prospects I doubt he has much value to ML teams yet.

He's probably our second most valuable prospect after Sims.

I'm inclined to make him available since we have Gattis under team control for the next five years.

[Heyward]

He's probably our second most valuable prospect after Sims.

I'm inclined to make him available since we have Gattis under team control for the next five years.

Gattis is 26-27, while Bethancourt is 22 and not near his prime.

CB is off limits.

[50PoundHead]

He's probably our second most valuable prospect after Sims.

I'm inclined to make him available since we have Gattis under team control for the next five years.

And Gattis could turn into Ron Karkovice. I fear that Gattis will not flourish with greater exposure. He looks to be better behind the plate than advertised, but if he gets 500 ABs while catching, is he going to be a .750 OPS guy. I still see him as a 300 AB - 350 AB guy who has diminishing marginal return after that point.

[nsacpi]

Gattis is 26-27, while Bethancourt is 22 and not near his prime.

CB is off limits.

I'm not focusing on the age difference. What matters more is that they will overlap in terms of pre-arb years. Likely overlap four of their six pre-arb seasons. That's not an optimal use of a valuable asset. Imagine if Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward were "sharing" first base. Everyone would be calling for one to be traded. We don't have to make a decision this off-season. But if both develop we will have to decide at some point which horse to ride.

[BRule]

Apparently the Brewers are shopping Braun and willing to pick up a decent amount of his contract......BJ + prospects, k? thanks

[thethe]

Ugh, I hate Braun but I'd be interested to see what it would take to get him.

[thethe]

Gattis has shown enough IMO to be considered the everyday catcher. He seemed to flash signs that he was learning how to have a competitive AB against tough pitchers. He just needs reps.

[Hawk]

Who might that pitcher be? The Bravos already tried to acquire Lohse last season. So he is one possibility. We have an extra young catcher in Bethancourt. But the Brewers seem set at catcher with Lucroy.

I am not especially keen on trading Bethancourt unless he (in a package, obviously) would net us a bona fide ace a la David Price. Pending the departure of Mac, I feel like our catching situation is precarious at best -- Gattis has earned some respect on the basis of his solid play last season, but I still have my doubts about his long term viability, especially at that position. If Bethancourt is gone and Gattis proves incapable, then who do we look to for relief at catcher? Yes, Bethancourt is a wild-card offensively, but atleast we know he's a gem defensively and I feel like his shortcomings with the bat could be overlooked given the Braves' overall offensive potential.

As for starters, I'd prefer Wren roll the dice with a FA signing, provided the price is right. There seems to be a plethora of options out there, ranging from a splashy signing like Matt Garza or Masahiro Tanaka (a man can dream,) to under-the-radar types like Gavin Floyd, Roberto Hernandez, Doc Halladay. With Hudson's departure, the Braves do have some money to spend, and assuming they want to ramp things up in preparation for the new ballpark, I could see them plopping down on premium pitching.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Apparently the Brewers are shopping Braun and willing to pick up a decent amount of his contract......BJ + prospects, k? thanks

Whoever the Brewers would trade him to, I hope they send that team some extra cash to pay for P.R. representatives for Braun

[CrimsonCowboy]

Cardinals pitcher Chris Carpenter has officially retired

[Enscheff]

Considering the deal JJ just signed I think Wren missed the boat on him. Of course JJ could have had zero interest in pitching in Atlanta.

[BRule]

Johnson wanted to play on West Coast, lives in Vegas and Wife is from there.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Jon Heyman: Fielder for Kinsler Blockbuster is on the table.

Edit: Heyman is saying the deal has been agreed to: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24250972/fielder-for-kinsler-bloickbuster-is-on-the-table

[Bdawg2309]

Jon Heyman: Fielder for Kinsler Blockbuster is on the table.

Edit: Heyman is saying the deal has been agreed to: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24250972/fielder-for-kinsler-bloickbuster-is-on-the-table

:Gasp:

[Heyward]

Thats surprising....

[thethe]

Crazy crazy deal. Rangers did a great job.

[nsacpi]

Crazy crazy deal. Rangers did a great job.

Think this one will turn out better for Detroit. I guess we have to see the details as far as cash and other players. Remaining Fielder contract is worse than Uggla contract imo.

Interesting that this clears a path for Profar and potentially for Castellanos at third. I assume Cabrera moves to first.

[benchguy]

7 years left on his big contract....no way I would take that.....



Crazy crazy deal. Rangers did a great job.

[Tapate50]

Think this one will turn out better for Detroit. I guess we have to see the details as far as cash and other players. Remaining Fielder contract is worse than Uggla contract imo.

Interesting that this clears a path for Profar and potentially for Castellanos at third. I assume Cabrera moves to first.
Shoot yeah, that was a monster contract they gave fielder

[thethe]

The DH will allow him to continue and now they can play Profar. Kinsler was very overrated IMO. Fielder is goign to crush the ball in Texas.

[Knucksie]

Crazy crazy deal. Rangers did a great job.

Yeah, they removed a player, who they didn't need, and brought in one they'd been wanting.

Good for this board, too. It'll put an end to the imaginary Profar to Braves fantasies.

[Heyward]

Crazy crazy deal. Rangers did a great job.

Not sure i agree.

Det has money to sign Miggy/Max to new deals.

I wonder if this takes Texas out of the Mac sweepstakes?

And Det needed a 2B, and Kinsler has a decent contract.

[Knucksie]

Trades can be good for both teams, y'know.

[Russ2dollas]

Good deal for Texas if you have money....and they do.

Now they have Fielder and they have the DH option. Fielder in a great park for him. Get to play Profar.

Detroit gets to dump salary, open a space for Castellanos, huge upgrade in D at 3rd, and use that money elsewhere.

Sucks......I didn't think we would really get either Castellanos or Profar, but now there is no way.

[Heyward]

I'd say it's good for both, but better for Det.

Texas needed a power bat in the biggest way (no pun intended, Prince)

[nsacpi]

Not sure i agree.

Det has money to sign Miggy/Max to new deals.

I wonder if this takes Texas out of the Mac sweepstakes?

And Det needed a 2B, and Kinsler has a decent contract.

Trade of two bad contracts, but the Fielder contract is much worse.

I'm wondering the same about Mac. Fielder making $24M this year, Kinsler $16M. Wonder if Detroit sends Texas some cash as part of the deal. That must be the case if commissioner's office is involved.

[zitothebrave]

Depends on money before I decide if either team won.

Kinsler is a better player, though more of an injury risk and not as good of a hitter.

[nsacpi]

Detroit would have to send at least $30M to Texas to make this a fair deal imo.

[clvclv]

Sure as *ell never saw that one coming, but don't think it affects Texas' pursuit of Mac in any way. They've got plenty of money to spend - Berkman and Cruz off the books, etc.. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they signed BOTH Mac and Beltran. Talk about some lineup...WOW!!!

Profar, Andrus, Beltran, Beltre, Fielder, Mac...scary.

[Heyward]

Evan Grant ‏@Evan_P_Grant 3h
Guessing #Rangers pursuit of McCann, possibly Choo, Beltran or Ellsbury will not be impacted by deal.

[The Chosen One]

Sure as *ell never saw that one coming, but don't think it affects Texas' pursuit of Mac in any way. They've got plenty of money to spend - Berkman and Cruz off the books, etc.. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they signed BOTH Mac and Beltran. Talk about some lineup...WOW!!!

Profar, Andrus, Beltran, Beltre, Fielder, Mac...scary.


Sounds as scary as A-Rod, Pudge, Galarraga, Caminiti, Palmeiro, Sierra...

[Tapate50]

The DH will allow him to continue and now they can play Profar. Kinsler was very overrated IMO. Fielder is goign to crush the ball in Texas.

He could have played DH in Det too ya know...

[nsacpi]

A brief perusal of the twittersphere suggests Tigers fans are happier about this deal. Agree with the sentiment.

[thethe]

He could have played DH in Det too ya know...

Cabrera is going to need to be at the DH position as well soon enough.

[nsacpi]

One way of looking at this trade is it makes it a lot easier for Detroit to now add a Beltran or Choo to play left while reducing the funds the Rangers have to add someone like McCann.

[Perfect Cell]

like it for Detroit

[nsacpi]

Jon MorosiVerified account‏@jonmorosi
Tigers are sending less than $50 million total to Rangers, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. @FOXSportsLive

Interesting. If the cash exchange is 30-40M, it becomes a fair deal.

Actually, both teams would come out ahead due to the secondary aspects of the deal: clearing paths for Profar and Castellanos.

[Hawk]

I think this is an excellent move for Texas. Fielder is gonna destroy it in Arlington. And they dumped Kinsler. Brilliant.

[nsacpi]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 5m
Source: Detroit will be sending $30 million to Texas in the Prince Fielder deal.


There we go. Jon Daniels did not become dumb all of a sudden. I still like this deal slightly more for Detroit, but it now makes sense for both teams.

[Hawk]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 5m
Source: Detroit will be sending $30 million to Texas in the Prince Fielder deal.


There we go. Jon Daniels did not become dumb all of a sudden.

And Texas is still assuming ~$100MM. Sheesh.

[clvclv]

Don't think it has any financial effect on either team. Not sure why anyone would think so.

Detroit moves Cabrera back to 1B and finally creates the 3B opening for Castellanos (at minimum salary). They can still go after a Napoli or Loney to share time with Cabrera at 1B/DH with little effect on their power. Fielder was owed $169 million. The difference between contracts is roughly $107 million. They send $30 million to Texas, pay $62 million to Kinsler, sign Napoli for 3/$39 million and pay Castellanos and they STILL have roughly $40 million to go towards signing another OF and extending Scherzer.

Texas has consistently been described as having the cash available to sign whomever they want since the day they let Hamilton walk.

[Pugfan]

Great move for both teams. Not sure who won this trade.

[The Chosen One]

Is there a reason Detroit HAD to make this trade?

[skillet]

I think this turns out better for Detriot. Fielder appears to be regressing, OPS from .981 in 2011 to .940 in 2012 to .819 this past year, plus he is about to turn 30 and is a big, heavy man with a lot of wear and tear. He is owed $24MM/year for the next 7 years, total of $168MM left. Kinsler is owed $62MM over the next 4 years, so with the $30MM coming from the Tigers, the Rangers just took on an additional $76MM for an aging Fielder, while the Tigers just gained a bunch of flexibility.

[clvclv]

Is there a reason Detroit HAD to make this trade?

To create payroll flexibility moving forward. No way they could've extended Cabrera AND Scherzer with Fielder's money still on the books.

[yeezus]

To create payroll flexibility moving forward. No way they could've extended Cabrera AND Scherzer with Fielder's money still on the books.

If they're keeping 40 mil of it, how much more flexibility is it?
The Rangers pretty much had to trade Kinsler and received a guy who could potentially hit 40+ homers.
I think it's good for both teams honestly, but I don't see it as bad for Texas at all.

[nsacpi]

I think the Tigers also want to sign one of Choo/Beltran/Granderson to play left. This makes it easier for them to do.

[clvclv]

If they're keeping 40 mil of it, how much more flexibility is it?
The Rangers pretty much had to trade Kinsler and received a guy who could potentially hit 40+ homers.
I think it's good for both teams honestly, but I don't see it as bad for Texas at all.

The flexibility comes in the later years...they're paying the cash to Texas up front, and Kinsler will be off their books 3 years sooner. Simply backload Scherzer/Cabrera deals a little until Kinzler/Nathan/Napoli/potential OF signing are off the books.

If they decided to dedicate all their new national TV deal revenue to pay Kinsler and Nathan, they just saved plenty of money for the Cabrera and Scherzer extensions.

[nsacpi]

they're paying the cash to Texas up front

Are you sure? Maybe they are going to pay 5M of his salary for the next six years. Even if they pay it up front for accounting purpose, a payment like that should be prorated.

[clvclv]

Are you sure? Maybe they are going to pay 5M of his salary for the next six years. Even if they pay it up front for accounting purpose, a payment like that should be prorated.

Would certainly expect them to absorb it all up front regardless of how they shuffle the books...send $2 million plus their TV check to Texas, whatever. The point is that they won't likely owe any more money to Kinsler/Nathan/V-Mart OR Fielder 4 years from now, meaning they can pay raises for Cabrera and Scherzer at that point.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Trade is now official

[goldfly]

The Tigers paid 76 million dollars for 2 years of Prince

[The Chosen One]

The Tigers paid 76 million dollars for 2 years of Prince

We paid BJ Upton 1 years worth of baseball, for 2-3 weeks worth of actual production.

[tululush]

Hahahahaha!


We paid BJ Upton 1 years worth of baseball, for 2-3 weeks worth of actual production.

[cajunrevenge]

Holy ****balls Batman! I like the deal for the Rangers, Kinsler was an albatross of a contract and with the money from Detroit they only pay 4 million more over the next 4 years than they would have paid Kinsler. Despite Fielder's down year I think hitting in the bandbox in Texas will help him a great deal.

[thethe]

Holy ****balls Batman! I like the deal for the Rangers, Kinsler was an albatross of a contract and with the money from Detroit they only pay 4 million more over the next 4 years than they would have paid Kinsler. Despite Fielder's down year I think hitting in the bandbox in Texas will help him a great deal.

Yup, this was a great deal for the Rangers.

[zitothebrave]

Tigers slam dunk win this trade. Not that this is a bad trade for the Rangers, but they've now taken on a fat 1B with 7 years on his contract. Tigers basically get bailed out of a terrible contract and get a good player at a position of need.

Sure Fielder could rebound and it's a good short term move for Texas, but they'll have a load of a 1B making 24 million in 2020.

[zitothebrave]

Holy ****balls Batman! I like the deal for the Rangers, Kinsler was an albatross of a contract and with the money from Detroit they only pay 4 million more over the next 4 years than they would have paid Kinsler. Despite Fielder's down year I think hitting in the bandbox in Texas will help him a great deal.

Fielder is gonna be 30, look at what happened to Ryan Howard, Albert, Pujols, Mark Teixeira, etc. when they got into their 30s. Big men in baseball don't last too long. Now the Rangers will be paying fielder about 18M a year in the most likely giant decline phase of his career. Also fielder is in much worse physical health in the eye test than Howard, Pujols and Tex, the latter 2 were never fat.

[clvclv]

Tigers slam dunk win this trade. Not that this is a bad trade for the Rangers, but they've now taken on a fat 1B with 7 years on his contract. Tigers basically get bailed out of a terrible contract and get a good player at a position of need.

Sure Fielder could rebound and it's a good short term move for Texas, but they'll have a load of a 1B making 24 million in 2020.


Awfully short-sighted statement IMO. There's absolutely no reason to think that Fielder wouldn't still be a monster DHing in that park until the end of the deal.

Given the continually evolving economic conditions in the game, I don't personally see a huge difference in paying Fielder $24 million to DH in Arlington in 2020 and paying David Ortiz $15 million to DH in Boston in 2014.

[zitothebrave]

Awfully short-sighted statement IMO. There's absolutely no reason to think that Fielder wouldn't still be a monster DHing in that park until the end of the deal.

Given the continually evolving economic conditions in the game, I don't personally see a huge difference in paying Fielder $24 million to DH in Arlington in 2020 and paying David Ortiz $15 million to DH in Boston in 2014.

If your lone hope for this contract not being a complete and Total bust is to compare him to David Ortiz who's a much much better and more complete hitter, you're in trouble. Ortiz for starters has more power. Infact at 37 Ortiz's iso was .255. Fielder has exceeded that number 3 times in his career.. That .255 was the 5th lowest in Ortiz's 11 seasons in boston.

Fielder could be like Ortiz, he could be a mold breaker who plays well into his mid-late 30s. But I wouldn't be 130 million dollars on that being the case.

One more point of comparison with Ortiz and Fielder, in the like 20 years that david ortiz has data on he's played in 704 games at 1B, most of them in theminors, but in the majors he's played 2054 innings at 1B. Fielder has been in baseball for 12 years, and has logged 1680 games at 1B, in the majors he's logged 11,028 innings. Neither of those numbers include the post season, but that should show you how much more fielding wear Fielder has compared to Ortiz.

Not to mention FIelder is 5'11 275 and Ortiz now (at maybe his heaviest) is 6'4 250

Typically in baseball there are 4 positions who don't age well, 2B, C, CF, and big first basemen.

[thethe]

Awfully short-sighted statement IMO. There's absolutely no reason to think that Fielder wouldn't still be a monster DHing in that park until the end of the deal.

Given the continually evolving economic conditions in the game, I don't personally see a huge difference in paying Fielder $24 million to DH in Arlington in 2020 and paying David Ortiz $15 million to DH in Boston in 2014.


Winner!

Fielder is going to absolutely crush the ball in Texas. This was a great move for them. Kinsler is in decline and we all know what happens to most second baseman after the age of 30.

[zitothebrave]

f
Winner!

Fielder is going to absolutely crush the ball in Texas. This was a great move for them. Kinsler is in decline and we all know what happens to most second baseman after the age of 30.

Let's look at over the last 5 years data on 1B over 30 years old.

For that group you have only 2 guys with an fWAR over 10. Pujols, and Youkilis. Same timeframe with 2B you have 5 2B over that limit,

When you stack the top 5 it's clear to see the winner (for fairness, PA in parenthesis)

1B

Pujols - 15.8 (2464)
Youkilis - 14.0 (2167)
Teixeira - 9.7 (1983)
Swisher - 9.7 (1893)
Berkman - 9.1 (2022)

2B

Utley - 23.9 (2545)
Zobrist - 17.5 (2040)
Scutaro - 13.7 (3050)
Phillips - 11.9 (1964)
Uggla - 10.6 (2513)

2B falling off the cliff at 30 does happen, but not as fiercely as 1B.

And for fairness I'll include DHs as well

Ortiz - 13.0 (2821)
Victor Martinez - 10.6 (2473)


I'll stop there as it gets very sad very fast (hint, number 6 is Russell Branyon)

[thethe]

For the last three yeras Kinsler has been an awful hitter away from Texas. I can only imagine how awful he will be hitting in Detroit half the time. I understand why both teams made the deal. It makes sense but I just think that the Rangers got the better end of it.

Also, your first baseman above all had various injuries. If Fielder starts to get hurt then I agree but I can't predict an injury to a guy who has always been healthy.

[zitothebrave]

Here are the 2 articles Cameron at Fangraphs wrote, first from the Tigers perspective, second from the Rnagers

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tigers-exchange-albatross-for-good-player-get-even-better/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/rangers-move-pieces-around-outcome-to-be-determined/

Honestly I think both teams are better in the immediate future for making this trade.

As the Cameron article states. The tigers will use this money to get a guy, hopefully they're not dumb enough to pay it to Scherzer. If they bring in Choo, or anyone else who's an improvement they're set.

Rangers add a bat that they need but more importantly free up a spot for Profar. If Profar gets to his potential that alone will make the deal be fine for Texas on the production side.

That said, FIelder is fat, and Texas got him for a similar value player and 30M in cash. Brilliant trade for Detroit. They save a ton of money and get better.

Miggy should be better at a better defensive position and a position that doesn't wear on his body as much. They can play Castellanos at 3B. They found someone to replace Omar, now they have the cash to go out and get someone as well. Great trade for the Tigers.

[zitothebrave]

For the last three yeras Kinsler has been an awful hitter away from Texas. I can only imagine how awful he will be hitting in Detroit half the time. I understand why both teams made the deal. It makes sense but I just think that the Rangers got the better end of it.

Also, your first baseman above all had various injuries. If Fielder starts to get hurt then I agree but I can't predict an injury to a guy who has always been healthy.

How many times must we tell you that road splits don't matter. Stop living in 1999.

Forstarters let's look at the park factors. Texas has a multi year of 104 and 103. Detroit has a multi-year of 106 and 105. Meaning Detroit is more of a hitters park than Texas. People often confuse homer parks with hitter parks. And Arlington I believe switched to humidor balls which removed that homer factor IIRC. Even if it didn't the onfield results show that Comerica is more hitter friendly.

Kinsler last year hit 12 homers out of the park. 11 of those should have been out of Comerica for sure according to hit Tracker online. Fielder had 25 homers and 2 of them at least are at risk of not leaving Arlington.

Then you have to remember that homers are Fielders game, they're not Kinslers. He's a doubles guy, which Comerica is more doubles friendly than homer friendly.

[Tapate50]

This proves to me that pretty much any contract is moveable. I mean Vernon Wells got moved as well.

[zitothebrave]

This proves to me that pretty much any contract is moveable. I mean Vernon Wells got moved as well.

Yup. Though the Wells one was a bigger head scratcher. Unfortunately for us though one team who may have considered uggla is gone.

[clvclv]

Here are the 2 articles Cameron at Fangraphs wrote, first from the Tigers perspective, second from the Rnagers

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tigers-exchange-albatross-for-good-player-get-even-better/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/rangers-move-pieces-around-outcome-to-be-determined/

Honestly I think both teams are better in the immediate future for making this trade.

As the Cameron article states. The tigers will use this money to get a guy, hopefully they're not dumb enough to pay it to Scherzer. If they bring in Choo, or anyone else who's an improvement they're set.

Rangers add a bat that they need but more importantly free up a spot for Profar. If Profar gets to his potential that alone will make the deal be fine for Texas on the production side.

That said, FIelder is fat, and Texas got him for a similar value player and 30M in cash. Brilliant trade for Detroit. They save a ton of money and get better.

Miggy should be better at a better defensive position and a position that doesn't wear on his body as much. They can play Castellanos at 3B. They found someone to replace Omar, now they have the cash to go out and get someone as well. Great trade for the Tigers.


These are the most important points when calling it a "win-win" for both teams IMO. Both teams were able to deal from a position of strength while being able to fill a position of need without significantly weakening themselves AS WELL AS opening an opportunity for players blocked on both sides. Texas got the LH power bat they've been searching for since they let Hamilton walk, and the one they got is significantly better than the other options available on the free-agent market. Detroit got significantly better defensively with the move of Cabrera to 1B and Castellanos to 3B, and the 2B they got is significantly better than the other options available on the free-agent market (outside of Cano of course).

The moves provided much more flexibility for both teams - financially for Detroit, and in the additional moves Texas can make now that they have that middle of the order bat need resolved - without costing either team young talent. As I alluded to last night, I fully expect Detroit to now go get Nathan and Choo and Texas to go get Mac and Beltran or Ellsbury (or they can even re-sign Cruz now that they're not so right handed anymore).

Just one of the really good "baseball trades" that we seldom see these days IMO.

[Tapate50]

Yup. Though the Wells one was a bigger head scratcher. Unfortunately for us though one team who may have considered uggla is gone.

Don't remind me :Sad:

[clvclv]

This proves to me that pretty much any contract is moveable. I mean Vernon Wells got moved as well.

I still wonder if Baltimore might not be a fit for Uggla if Wren's willing to eat enough money. Cincy's going to want pitching in return for Phillips, and Duquette's been pretty clear in explaining that he's not moving Pitchers. They need what money they have available to add a rotation piece, and being able to plug Uggla in at 2B for maybe $4 million per rather than gamble on Brian Roberts ever being healthy again might not be such a bad idea.

[zitothebrave]

I still wonder if Baltimore might not be a fit for Uggla if Wren's willing to eat enough money. Cincy's going to want pitching in return for Phillips, and Duquette's been pretty clear in explaining that he's not moving Pitchers. They need what money they have available to add a rotation piece, and being able to plug Uggla in at 2B for maybe $4 million per rather than gamble on Brian Roberts ever being healthy again might not be such a bad idea.

I'd hope we could eat less than that. Uggla still has value. He's not a total turd.

[50PoundHead]

I'd hope we could eat less than that. Uggla still has value. He's not a total turd.

I don't think anyone will know that until he faces live pitching. For the record (for the umpteenth time and I think everyone here knows what I'm going to write), I've never--ever--liked Uggla as a player and while I abided the original deal to acquire him, I thought the extension that was pretty much a bad deal. But what's done is done and we're stuck in what could be another Esasky situation.

I think the Kinsler/Fielder deal tilts ever so slightly toward the Tigers. It's really a boon to Profar and Castellanos, who will know get every chance to be everyday players. Tigers get some flexibility to beef up their bullpen and/or acquire another piece of their line-up. Fielder should do well in Arlington and the Rangers have shown themselves to be able to absorb some pretty bad contracts. Can't believe they are going to pay Andrus what they will be paying him for the next decade.

[zitothebrave]

Unless Uggla gets worse than he did last year which I don't consider the most likely choice. I think he hits a little bit better so he'll be better, probably along the lines of about where he was in 2012. So maybe like a 2 WAR player.

Not great of course, but I'd like to think someone would pay at least 6M a year for him.

[3Deans]

I live here in DFW and there's still a lot of talk about adding Robinson Cano as well. Profar might be still be available.

[nsacpi]

I live here in DFW and there's still a lot of talk about adding Robinson Cano as well. Profar might be still be available.

What is the feeling about McCann. Cano and McCann seems a bit rich for a team in the Rangers financial situation.

[wheresmykayak]

What this trade shows us is that it's typically easier to trade bad contact for bad contract than it is to just dump off a contract, even after eating a large chunk of it. So when I think about how we could possibly get rid of Uggla, I try to think of teams with players that have bad contracts in an area of need for us. The only possible area of need for us that I can see (other than 2nd, lol) is a veteran starting pitcher. Definitely wouldn't be the ace we all want, but it's the most plausible way to dump Uggs that I can think of.

[50PoundHead]

Unless Uggla gets worse than he did last year which I don't consider the most likely choice. I think he hits a little bit better so he'll be better, probably along the lines of about where he was in 2012. So maybe like a 2 WAR player.

Not great of course, but I'd like to think someone would pay at least 6M a year for him.

zito, the point I was trying to make is that I doubt anyone will consider acquiring Uggla until they see him against live pitching. He was so bad post-LASIK that other teams are going to want to see if that was a total aberration or if that's who he is right now. I agree that he probably can't be that bad, but there may be deeper issues here (which is why I brought up Esasky).

[PawPawMaxwell]

What this trade shows us is that it's typically easier to trade bad contact for bad contract than it is to just dump off a contract, even after eating a large chunk of it. So when I think about how we could possibly get rid of Uggla, I try to think of teams with players that have bad contracts in an area of need for us. The only possible area of need for us that I can see (other than 2nd, lol) is a veteran starting pitcher. Definitely wouldn't be the ace we all want, but it's the most plausible way to dump Uggs that I can think of.

Uggla for Markakis fits your scenario to some extent.

[PawPawMaxwell]

zito, the point I was trying to make is that I doubt anyone will consider acquiring Uggla until they see him against live pitching. He was so bad post-LASIK that other teams are going to want to see if that was a total aberration or if that's who he is right now. I agree that he probably can't be that bad, but there may be deeper issues here (which is why I brought up Esasky).

If the Lasik surgery totally screwed Uggla's eyes, would insurance be a viable route out this disaster or are the Braves one of the self insurers? Anyone know.

[zitothebrave]

Uggla for Markakis fits your scenario to some extent.

I would trade Uggla for Markakis, but I don't think the O's would.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I would trade Uggla for Markakis, but I don't think the O's would.
A lot of other things would have to happen first. Consider that Os have no current 2nd baseman. Consider that Os have no real need of Markakis if they bring McLouth back. Consider that Markakis has what is a bad contract in some circles (17M obligation for 2014 then Fa)

Next question begs What would Atlanta do with Markakis other than a 17M bench player.

[Enscheff]

The fact that we have posters saying both of these teams won the trade tells me it was a very even trade.

And I agree.

I think this was the perfect fit for both teams. Both teams may end up paying for a declining talent, but they have that talent in place at a current position of need. Both teams freed up a position for a young cheap player to take over. Both teams made the swap without altering their fincancial plans very much, either now or in the future.

This is a classic win/win trade.

[NinersSBChamps]

Unless Uggla gets worse than he did last year which I don't consider the most likely choice. I think he hits a little bit better so he'll be better, probably along the lines of about where he was in 2012. So maybe like a 2 WAR player.

Not great of course, but I'd like to think someone would pay at least 6M a year for him.
Someone already pays him well above 6 million for his performance...

[NinersSBChamps]

A lot of other things would have to happen first. Consider that Os have no current 2nd baseman. Consider that Os have no real need of Markakis if they bring McLouth back. Consider that Markakis has what is a bad contract in some circles (17M obligation for 2014 then Fa)

Next question begs What would Atlanta do with Markakis other than a 17M bench player.

Put him in left field, so we can have a different terrible contract on the bench.

[50PoundHead]

Put him in left field, so we can have a different terrible contract on the bench.

BJ Upton. Highest paid pinch runner in the history of baseball OR the Braves could convert Markakis to a pitcher. The Braves really wanted to draft Markakis the year he was drafted, but they wanted to draft him as a pitcher and not as an OF.

I'm totally kidding. I just don't see this as a match-up unless the Braves were to flip Markakis in a subsequent transaction.

[zitothebrave]

BJ Upton. Highest paid pinch runner in the history of baseball OR the Braves could convert Markakis to a pitcher. The Braves really wanted to draft Markakis the year he was drafted, but they wanted to draft him as a pitcher and not as an OF.

I'm totally kidding. I just don't see this as a match-up unless the Braves were to flip Markakis in a subsequent transaction.

That was more what I was going for.

[bravesnumberone]

Good deal for both. Fielder will definitely help Texas immediately, but Detroit may come out ahead in the long-term. Then again, who knows?

[nsacpi]

Evan Grant‏@Evan_P_Grant
Cash payments from Detroit will be paid out in 2016-20, so no extra money for #Rangers up front.

I'm curious how the Rangers handle the rest of their off-season. They need an outfielder and a catcher. Wonder how they will allocate money to fill those two needs.

[Heyward]

Evan Grant‏@Evan_P_Grant
Cash payments from Detroit will be paid out in 2016-20, so no extra money for #Rangers up front.

I'm curious how the Rangers handle the rest of their off-season. They need an outfielder and a catcher. Wonder how they will allocate money to fill those two needs.

I would guess they sign one of the catchers, McCann being the most likely.

Outfield wise, i could see Beltran as a fit.

I saw Choo/Ellsbury mentioned as well.

Granderson would be a decent fit as well.

[Heyward]

I think Texas wins after thinking about it.

Detroit will have plenty of money off the books next year with Hunter, VMart, and they'll probably trade one of Porcello/Fister to make room for Smyly in the rotation.

So they'd have enough to sign Scherzer to a huge extension.

Kinsler doesnt exactly have a team-friendly deal, not as big as Fielder's deal but still not great.

Regards to Uggla, im not sure what contract we could take back if thats what would work.

[Enscheff]

A few bad contracts that could help the Braves more than keeping Uggla on the roster:

Overpriced OF bench bat like Markakis
Overpriced but durable veteran starting pitcher
Overpriced BP arm

A team with a hole at 2B could prefer Uggla's bad contract over a bad contract like the 3 listed above.

[nsacpi]

Seattle and Colorado are the most likely destinations for Uggla imo.

[50PoundHead]

A few bad contracts that could help the Braves more than keeping Uggla on the roster:

Overpriced OF bench bat like Markakis
Overpriced but durable veteran starting pitcher
Overpriced BP arm

A team with a hole at 2B could prefer Uggla's bad contract over a bad contract like the 3 listed above.

Thanks for pointing out that there are more valuable ratholes to pour p*ss down! LOL.

After thinking about the Rangers/Tigers deal, moving Uggla may boil down to a swap of big, and in the case of Uggla "bad," contracts.

[clvclv]

Seattle and Colorado are the most likely destinations for Uggla imo.

Can't personally see Seattle as a match at all personally. Have to think Jack Z would much prefer to let some combination of Miller/Franklin/Triunfel/Ackley man 2B and SS and spend money on OF help.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I really doubt that a Markakis for Uggla deal is any more than a nocturnal emmision. But, when I bring something up here it is based on stated needs/rumors not invented by me that make the press or at least a respectable internet source

Next thought and not reinventing anything but has everyone forgotten the Phillips/Uggla rumor (granted it came from Atlanta sources). With the signing of Shumaker is it possible that Reds are simply waiting to replace Choo before moving Phillips? Someone says they see Seattle or Colorado as landing places for Dan.
Personally I dont see how either of those fits, especially Seattle after watching their failure with Ackley. Doubt they are looking for another disaster.

An additional consideration in finding a home for Uggla is the Brewers situation with Weeks. They want to dump him as well.

[nsacpi]

Can't personally see Seattle as a match at all personally. Have to think Jack Z would much prefer to let some combination of Miller/Franklin/Triunfel/Ackley man 2B and SS and spend money on OF help.

Seattle generated a grand total of 0.1 WAR from their second basemen in 2013, the fifth worst in the majors. They are looking for right-handed power. They also have trouble attracting free agents, making the trade route something they are more likely to use to address their needs. Based on the above, I think they are one of the more plausible possible landing places for Uggla. Plausible doesn't mean likely of course.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I see cvlcvl posted basically the same thing about Seattle while I was typing my above post.

[nsacpi]

I really doubt that a Markakis for Uggla deal is any more than a nocturnal emmision. But, when I bring something up here it is based on stated needs/rumors not invented by me that make the press or at least a respectable internet source

Next thought and not reinventing anything but has everyone forgotten the Phillips/Uggla rumor (granted it came from Atlanta sources). With the signing of Shumaker is it possible that Reds are simply waiting to replace Choo before moving Phillips? Someone says they see Seattle or Colorado as landing places for Dan.
Personally I dont see how either of those fits, especially Seattle after watching their failure with Ackley. Doubt they are looking for another disaster.

An additional consideration in finding a home for Uggla is the Brewers situation with Weeks. They want to dump him as well.

My guess is the Reds would like to trade Phillips for a younger and cheaper second baseman. They are more likely to be interested in someone like La Stella than Uggla.

[Hawk]

Can't personally see Seattle as a match at all personally. Have to think Jack Z would much prefer to let some combination of Miller/Franklin/Triunfel/Ackley man 2B and SS and spend money on OF help.

Jack Z also has a penchant for slugging, underperforming DH types -- see Mike Morse, Kendrys Morales, Raul Ibanez, Jason Bay.

[50PoundHead]

Seattle generated a grand total of 0.1 WAR from their second basemen in 2013, the fifth worst in the majors. They are looking for right-handed power. They also have trouble attracting free agents, making the trade route something they are more likely to use to address their needs. Based on the above, I think they are one of the more plausible possible landing places for Uggla. Plausible doesn't mean likely of course.

Ackley has not panned out. Just shows that even the "can't misses" sometimes miss. He's still young, so I'm not calling the cemetery to see if they have a plot all ready for him, but his last two years have really been down after a decent rookie campaign.

[Hawk]

Ackley has not panned out. Just shows that even the "can't misses" sometimes miss. He's still young, so I'm not calling the cemetery to see if they have a plot all ready for him, but his last two years have really been down after a decent rookie campaign.

I would be interested in taking a flier on Ackley, there's still a ton of potential there. Doubt Seattle would be interested in moving him yet, but you never know.

[PawPawMaxwell]

My guess is the Reds would like to trade Phillips for a younger and cheaper second baseman. They are more likely to be interested in someone like La Stella than Uggla.
But, But, ALL the conventional wisdom here (yours included) is that Phillips' contract is worse than Dan's.

[clvclv]

Ackley has not panned out. Just shows that even the "can't misses" sometimes miss. He's still young, so I'm not calling the cemetery to see if they have a plot all ready for him, but his last two years have really been down after a decent rookie campaign.

No question. However, I'd much rather have someone making the league minimum to sit on the bench rather than tie up $4-ish million per. The only way Seattle lands a free-agent that can actually play is by drastically overpaying - my guess is that Jack Z needs every dime he can get his hands on to try to convince an Ellsbury to sign (even though he has ties to the region).

[PawPawMaxwell]

Jack Z also has a penchant for slugging, underperforming DH types -- see Mike Morse, Kendrys Morales, Raul Ibanez, Jason Bay.

The MLB Tonite pundits IIRC all seem to think Z is on his last legs. His last chance is in the its death throes. Doubt he would want to compound his tenuous position with a gamble as dubious as Uggla.

[CrimsonCowboy]

MLB Trade Rumors ‏@mlbtraderumors 41s
The #Royals have scheduled a press conference for 4pm CT to make a "major baseball-related announcement."

[nsacpi]

But, But, ALL the conventional wisdom here (yours included) is that Phillips' contract is worse than Dan's.

I wouldn't go that far. But I'd rather not trade for Phillips and his contract. Howie Kendrick is younger and has a shorter and cheaper contract. To me he makes much more sense than Phillips.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I wouldn't go that far. But I'd rather not trade for Phillips and his contract. Howie Kendrick is younger and has a shorter and cheaper contract. To me he makes much more sense than Phillips.
I dont disagree with that but the Angels stated needs and reason for trading Kendricks would be to get some young pitching. Uggla just doesnt fit there. And to top that, any money we would eat of Ugglas contract would have to be added to the cost of Kendricks.

[jdunn]

MLB Trade Rumors ‏@mlbtraderumors 41s
The #Royals have scheduled a press conference for 4pm CT to make a "major baseball-related announcement."


To complete their transition into the Atlanta Braves, the Kansas City Royals will move to south Atlanta and will play all home games at Turner Field.

[CrimsonCowboy]

It appears the Royals big announcment is that they have signed Jason Vargas to a three year deal.

Edit: It's actually a four year deal

[Hawk]

Apparently they (Royals) signed SP Jason Vargas to a three year pact.

Edit: Make that 4 years. Lordy, lordy.

$32 million.

[Hawk]

The pitching market has been insane so far this offseason.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Per Rosenthal, Vargas got a four year, $32M deal

[nsacpi]

It's a good thing the Braves farm system is an efficient factory when it comes to producing pitching. Inflation in the FA market increases the comparative advantage of teams that produce a lot of young cost-controlled talent.

I wonder what David Hale would fetch in the trade market.

[Tapate50]

It's a good thing the Braves farm system is an efficient factory when it comes to producing pitching. Inflation in the FA market increases the comparative advantage of teams that produce a lot of young cost-controlled talent.

I wonder what David Hale would fetch in the trade market.

I was about to say, FA pitching price increase should increase value of pitching at the minor league level. maybe a hair less so, but still.

[cajunrevenge]

I dont think thats that bad of a deal for the Royals. 8 million is right about the price you pay for an average starter these days. Right around the same amount they gave Guthrie last offseason. Mid rotation starters get 15 million a year in this market, #2 starters get 16-20 million and aces get 25-30 million. Vargas is atleast tied with Guthrie for second best starter on the team. I know people are going to hate on the length of the deal but I bet you its going to be backloaded a little and they could still trade him after 2 years without having to eat any salary.

[nsacpi]

I'd try for Capuano at 8-9M. 1 year plus an option.

[Enscheff]

Damn I wish I could throw 90 MPH...

[Knucksie]

Is it possible for Uggla talk and trade proposals to be confined in the Uggla thread?

[Orphan Black]

8 mil a year for 4 years for Vargas is pretty ridiculous.

[MadduxFanII]

I'd try for Capuano at 8-9M. 1 year plus an option.

If only to make sure we don't have to face him again.

[yeezus]

I dont think thats that bad of a deal for the Royals. 8 million is right about the price you pay for an average starter these days. Right around the same amount they gave Guthrie last offseason. Mid rotation starters get 15 million a year in this market, #2 starters get 16-20 million and aces get 25-30 million. Vargas is atleast tied with Guthrie for second best starter on the team. I know people are going to hate on the length of the deal but I bet you its going to be backloaded a little and they could still trade him after 2 years without having to eat any salary.

Agreed, this is becoming pretty standard.

[NinersSBChamps]

Agreed, this is becoming pretty standard.

Wonder what Ervin is going to get on the market.

[Tapate50]

Wonder what Ervin is going to get on the market.
16 per?

[nsacpi]

Wonder what Ervin is going to get on the market.

14-15M, 4 or 5 years

[Tapate50]

14-15M, 4 or 5 years = Derek Lowe at like 36 yrs old... Lol. What a terrible FA offer that was

[bravesnumberone]

Sad to hear of players' union head Michael Weiner passing.

[Carp]

Wonder what Ervin is going to get on the market.

Guessing 4/60 or somewhere thereabouts.

[clvclv]

Chris Young (the other one) to the Mutts on a one year deal.

Pretty nice pickup IMO - looks a lot like the Marlon Byrd signing last season. Instantly becomes the best OF on their roster, and no long term commitment.

[stpeteirish]

Damn I wish I could throw 90 MPH...

Capuano can't and nsacpi,s got 8-9 mill for him. So if you can throw 75 you might be able to get 3-4 mill in this market. But, are you willing to relocate?

[Enscheff]

On a opne year deal? Sure!

And I'll have you know I top out in the 81-82 range with very questionable control.

[nsacpi]

Wonder what the Sino-Panamanian former Brave will get.

[thethe]

Mets paid 7.25 million for Chris Young. Holy crap this market is insane. Wren better offer Heyward/Freeman 20 million per now before that number turns into 25 in a year or two.

[nsacpi]

The Chris Young signing looks like one of the better ones to me. He's coming off a poor season. Good rebound candidate.

I would expect him to be a 2 WAR or better player next year. At 2 WAR that's less than 4M/WAR. Below market.

[bravebonebook]

Mets paid 7.25 million for Chris Young. Holy crap this market is insane. Wren better offer Heyward/Freeman 20 million per now before that number turns into 25 in a year or two.

The way these salaries are ballooning out of control, that number could increase in weeks not years!!!

[Heyward]

Cards trade Freese for Bourjos straight up.

Good deal for Stl.

More pieces to be involved, likely prospects.

[50PoundHead]

Cards trade Freese for Bourjos straight up.

Good deal for Stl.

When this happens (appears it will be official shortly), who is in line to play 3B for the Cards?

[thethe]

When this happens (appears it will be official shortly), who is in line to play 3B for the Cards?

Wong to second and Carpenter to third.

[Heyward]

Wong to second and Carpenter to third.

That.

I do think they are selling low on Freese though.

[50PoundHead]

Wong to second and Carpenter to third.

Got it. Thanks. Forgot about Wong.

Yeah, that does seem low on Freese. Bourjos is pretty much all projection right now. Great speed, but don't know what else he brings to the table. Of course, Cards are really light in the OF right now.

[clvclv]

Another great deal by Mozeliak. Cards are now MUCH better defensively with Bourjos in CF, Carpenter at 3B and Wong at 2B. There's still some potential development in Bourjos' bat, and don't sleep on Grichuk - they took him ahead of Trout.

Also puts them in great position to deal for Andrus.

May be lots of chips about to fall...could see Taveras and maybe an arm like Lynn for Andrus and wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers turn around and jump in on Cano if that happened.

[clvclv]

Wong to second and Carpenter to third.

One of my fantasy teams just got a HELLUVA lot better in the last couple days. Can now call up Profar and Wong (with everyday ABs) and pay them the league minimum!!!

Anybody interested in two years of Prado at $7 million per??? Won't cost much - need to clear cap space to bid on Price and Nathan. LOL

[Heyward]

Another great deal by Mozeliak. Cards are now MUCH better defensively with Bourjos in CF, Carpenter at 3B and Wong at 2B. There's still some potential development in Bourjos' bat, and don't sleep on Grichuk - they took him ahead of Trout.

Also puts them in great position to deal for Andrus.

May be lots of chips about to fall...could see Taveras and maybe an arm like Lynn for Andrus and wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers turn around and jump in on Cano if that happened.

Wong is unproven, who knows if Carpenter can repeat this last year, and Bourjos has health/offensive questions.

Dont think the Rangers are dealing either especially with Kinsler gone.

Profar/Andrus is their MIF for the forseeable future, but...

The Cards do have a surplus of outfielders, the prospect they got looks to be pretty good though.

They do need a SS, maybe sign someone.

Cant go into the season with Kozma as SS.

[yeezus]

Another great deal by Mozeliak. Cards are now MUCH better defensively with Bourjos in CF, Carpenter at 3B and Wong at 2B. There's still some potential development in Bourjos' bat, and don't sleep on Grichuk - they took him ahead of Trout.

Also puts them in great position to deal for Andrus.

May be lots of chips about to fall...could see Taveras and maybe an arm like Lynn for Andrus and wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers turn around and jump in on Cano if that happened.

Taveres and Lynn for Andrus? I wouldn't trade Taveras straight-up for Andrus. Wouldn't even consider it.

[clvclv]

Taveres and Lynn for Andrus? I wouldn't trade Taveras straight-up for Andrus. Wouldn't even consider it.

I'll take that for what it's worth coming from someone with a tagline comparing Tommy La Stella to Dustin Pedroia.

[clvclv]

Wong is unproven, who knows if Carpenter can repeat this last year, and Bourjos has health/offensive questions.

Dont think the Rangers are dealing either especially with Kinsler gone.

Profar/Andrus is their MIF for the forseeable future, but...

The Cards do have a surplus of outfielders, the prospect they got looks to be pretty good though.

They do need a SS, maybe sign someone.

Cant go into the season with Kozma as SS.

The ENTIRE reason they made the deal was that they wanted to move Carpenter back to 3B to clear the way for Wong. Need to spend some free time reading about organizations other than ours.

[clvclv]

Scott Sizemore outrighted by Oakland...wouldn't be a bad guy to take a flier on signing to a minor league deal with a spring training invite - could provide more 2B/3B competition during camp. Was pretty highly thought of before blowing the same knee out the last two springs.

[PawPawMaxwell]

If I was going to take a flyer on a Sizemore, it would be Grady. Wonder what he would cost on a 1 year with an option.

Wonder if John Hart could help in that.

Wonder what Justin Upton would bring TOR wise. Scherzer?

[Gary82]

Scott Sizemore outrighted by Oakland...wouldn't be a bad guy to take a flier on signing to a minor league deal with a spring training invite - could provide more 2B/3B competition during camp. Was pretty highly thought of before blowing the same knee out the last two springs.

You don't think we have enough terrible options at second?

[emk418]

Scott Sizemore outrighted by Oakland...wouldn't be a bad guy to take a flier on signing to a minor league deal with a spring training invite - could provide more 2B/3B competition during camp. Was pretty highly thought of before blowing the same knee out the last two springs.

I actually like this idea. But not sure if he's really needed since Pena will be back. I think we need some LH pop off the bench.

[Heyward]

The ENTIRE reason they made the deal was that they wanted to move Carpenter back to 3B to clear the way for Wong. Need to spend some free time reading about organizations other than ours.

Umm, i post on another board which has Cards fans.

I knew this all along as well, so get your facts straight, jack.

[Heyward]

If I was going to take a flyer on a Sizemore, it would be Grady. Wonder what he would cost on a 1 year with an option.

Wonder if John Hart could help in that.

Wonder what Justin Upton would bring TOR wise. Scherzer?

Please god no.

Not that Detroit is trading him.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Please god no.

Not that Detroit is trading him.

How can you say that with a name like Heyward. Do you really think we can keep both Heyward and JUp while being saddled with BJ?????

[Heyward]

How can you say that with a name like Heyward. Do you really think we can keep both Heyward and JUp while being saddled with BJ?????

Scherzer is a FA after this year and will command around 16-20 million per year on an extension with BORAS as his agent.

Yes, we can keep both of them with BJ but it takes two to tango.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Scherzer is a FA after this year and will command around 16-20 million per year on an extension with BORAS as his agent.

Yes, we can keep both of them with BJ but it takes two to tango.

Dont think so if you want to go into the new stadium with a competitive team.

[Heyward]

Dont think so if you want to go into the new stadium with a competitive team.

Uhh, Uggla's deal is off the books by then.

There is plenty of money to keep both but they have to want to committ longterm.

[50PoundHead]

Wong is unproven, who knows if Carpenter can repeat this last year, and Bourjos has health/offensive questions.

Dont think the Rangers are dealing either especially with Kinsler gone.

Profar/Andrus is their MIF for the forseeable future, but...

The Cards do have a surplus of outfielders, the prospect they got looks to be pretty good though.

They do need a SS, maybe sign someone.

Cant go into the season with Kozma as SS.

Horrible contract.

[clvclv]

Umm, i post on another board which has Cards fans.

I knew this all along as well, so get your facts straight, jack.

OK Jill...what "fact" is wrong???

There are two GMs I'd prefer to have running the Braves more than Frank Wren, and one of them just traded an unproductive David Freese for a Gold Glove caliber CF while making his team better at 3 positions AND cutting $3 million in salary commitments. (The other one got Wil Myers for 2 years of James Shields last winter.)

If those Cards' fans that post on whatever message board you frequent say anything differently, you might want to be rather careful after reading what they have to say before driving from your couch to your bed.

[clvclv]

I actually like this idea. But not sure if he's really needed since Pena will be back. I think we need some LH pop off the bench.

Really just think he's another good camp invite - never enough competition at any position regardless of who's on your roster IMO.

[Heyward]

OK Jill...what "fact" is wrong???

There are two GMs I'd prefer to have running the Braves more than Frank Wren, and one of them just traded an unproductive David Freese for a Gold Glove caliber CF while making his team better at 3 positions AND cutting $3 million in salary commitments. (The other one got Wil Myers for 2 years of James Shields last winter.)

If those Cards' fans that post on whatever message board you frequent say anything differently, you might want to be rather careful after reading what they have to say before driving from your couch to your bed.

I dont disagree on the GM's.

And most think its an ok trade but nothing to be that excited about.

For now...

[Hawk]

It's definitely not a clear win for either team. David Freese may have been unproductive in 2013, but he was pretty damn solid in 2012. Defense has never been an issue. And he's still relatively cheap. Bourjos is not really appealing to me, don't see him lasting in a starting role in STL for too long. Stud defender, can't hit worth a lick. Prospects are interesting.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Uhh, Uggla's deal is off the books by then.

There is plenty of money to keep both but they have to want to committ longterm.
All the pitchers plus Simmons will be expensive by then not to mention everyone else on the roster.

[50PoundHead]

It's definitely not a clear win for either team. David Freese may have been unproductive in 2013, but he was pretty damn solid in 2012. Defense has never been an issue. And he's still relatively cheap. Bourjos is not really appealing to me, don't see him lasting in a starting role in STL for too long. Stud defender, can't hit worth a lick. Prospects are interesting.

Same feeling from me. Bourjos can really run, which makes him a very good defensive CF, but he's a real question mark with the bat. He looks like a 4th OF to me, but I will admit the Cards always seem to get value out of a guys and Bourjos has particular talents that can be manipulated into team value.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Not really much difference between Bourjos and Shafer but we always have had tons of posters here go ga ga over Shafer.

[Heyward]

All the pitchers plus Simmons will be expensive by then not to mention everyone else on the roster.

Payroll is expected to go up, but fact remains the same.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Per Jerry Crasnick, the Cardinals are close to a deal with Jhonny Peralta

[Heyward]

He was seeking 56-75 million, so they must of gave him a big deal.

Good signing for them.

[Tapate50]

Simmons should never be too expensive .

[Tapate50]

Tigers losing a lot this year

[Hawk]

1) Peralta deal is reportedly 4 years, $52 million+


2) Teams have inquired on Cubs pitcher Jeff Samardzija and the Blue Jays are putting together a package of young players to try to land him, a source tells Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com

[50PoundHead]

The Cards make a defensive upgrade with Wong moving in at 2B and then sign a statue to play SS.

[drewdat]

The Cards make a defensive upgrade with Wong moving in at 2B and then sign a statue to play SS.

He is a PED-user though. Seems to be a key criteria for them.

[50PoundHead]

He is a PED-user though. Seems to be a key criteria for them.

Makes for a statue with better musculature.

[Dalyn]

Blue Jays looking for a starting pitcher.

I would trade them Minor, Wood, Avilan, and Uggla for Sanchez, Reyes, and cash.

[NinersSBChamps]

Blue Jays looking for a starting pitcher.

I would trade them Minor, Wood, Avilan, and Uggla for Sanchez, Reyes, and cash.
Where would Reyes play and who is Sanchez?

[yeezus]

I'll take that for what it's worth coming from someone with a tagline comparing Tommy La Stella to Dustin Pedroia.

Ask anyone who knows anything about Taveres, that deal would never ever ever happen. Sorry.
The sig is a joke, pal.

[NinersSBChamps]

Tigers losing a lot this year

At least they are getting someone back in return. More than we can say.

[Dalyn]

Where would Reyes play and who is Sanchez?

Reyes would play second. And Sanchez would be in our rotation in 2015.

[GovClintonTyree]

Blue Jays looking for a starting pitcher.

I would trade them Minor, Wood, Avilan, and Uggla for Sanchez, Reyes, and cash.

Uh, no.

[Dalyn]

Uh, no.

Sanchez is going to be better than Wood and probably better than Minor. Avilan isn't going to make it through the year (under Fredi). And Uggla has no place on this team. If anything, the Blue Jays say no.

[zitothebrave]

Blue Jays looking for a starting pitcher.

I would trade them Minor, Wood, Avilan, and Uggla for Sanchez, Reyes, and cash.

No.

Actually hell no.Ignoring the fact that we're trading our number 1 and what should be our 5, and all we're getting back is a future SP prospect and an absolute headcase. Unless they're giving us 80 million dollars, there's no way in hell you make that trade.

[Dalyn]

No.

Actually hell no.Ignoring the fact that we're trading our number 1 and what should be our 5, and all we're getting back is a future SP prospect and an absolute headcase. Unless they're giving us 80 million dollars, there's no way in hell you make that trade.

Counting Uggla's contract, the cash would be close. I was thinking that deal might net Reyes at about 10/year.

[skidlee]

its a bad trade no matter how you look at it.

I would rather have Uggla playing 2B then make that trade.

[skidlee]

Dan Haren to the Dodgers

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m

Sources: Haren to #Dodgers, one year, $10M plus 2015 option that vests at 180 innings. Pending physical.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m
Sources: Haren to #Dodgers, one year, $10M plus 2015 option that vests at 180 innings. Pending physical.

[Dalyn]

Dang. Haren would've been good for this staff.

[thethe]

Ugh

[zitothebrave]

Counting Uggla's contract, the cash would be close. I was thinking that deal might net Reyes at about 10/year.

Nope. Don't trade minor and wood for Reyes. Never know when he won't show up.

[Hawk]

Haren never was coming here. He's a West Coast kid, from right outside of LA. Took the deal with Washington last year because it was a significant pillow contract.

[Tapate50]

its a bad trade no matter how you look at it.

I would rather have Uggla playing 2B then make that trade.
Me too.

[thethe]

I don't see how you trade Minor at this point.

[thewupk]

Dang. Haren would've been good for this staff.

He's been awful the last two years.

[Dalyn]

He's been awful the last two years.

Awful? Not quite. Below average. Would be a solid #5 on a winning team with a staff full of young pitchers.

[The Chosen One]

Awful? Not quite. Below average. Would be a solid #5 on a winning team with a staff full of young pitchers.

For 10 million I'll pass.

[Knucksie]

I don't see how you trade Minor at this point.

Why are you enabling? Enough real hot stove action is already happening, and will continue in the coming weeks, that we don't need the board to be littered with bogus trade proposals.

[thewupk]

Awful? Not quite. Below average. Would be a solid #5 on a winning team with a staff full of young pitchers.

Ask the Nats how they felt about Haren being their #5 last year. They went 11-19 in games he started. 75-57 when he didn't. Thats a 92 win pace and likely gets them into the wild card game.

[Tapate50]

Sanchez is going to be better than Wood and probably better than Minor. Avilan isn't going to make it through the year (under Fredi). And Uggla has no place on this team. If anything, the Blue Jays say no.

I found this very interesting. Do you know how good Wood will be after half a season? I seem to remember you have a lower outlook on him than most.

Personally, Wood would be untouchable for me at this point unless it is a slam dunk. I don't think there is a pitcher on our staff that could take as big of a step forward.

[Tapate50]

Ask the Nats how they felt about Haren being their #5 last year. They went 11-19 in games he started. 75-57 when he didn't. Thats a 92 win pace and likely gets them into the wild card game.
I just have a personal thing against getting the Nats sloppy seconds ....

[Heyward]

Im not sure why people are mad about Haren.

He wasnt that good last year but better in the 2nd half.

Not a huge upgrade over Wood/Beachy.

[TURBO]

Why are you enabling? Enough real hot stove action is already happening, and will continue in the coming weeks, that we don't need the board to be littered with bogus trade proposals.

Like we told you last time you got all huffy over a Murph trade proposal, this a board for discussion. And I for one love reading all the crazy trades people come up with from this site. And I hope they keep coming. Please everyone, come up with some crazy trade ideas. It is fun.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Like we told you last time you got all huffy over a Murph trade proposal, this a board for discussion. And I for one love reading all the crazy trades people come up with from this site. And I hope they keep coming. Please everyone, come up with some crazy trade ideas. It is fun.

Only until you mention trading Heyward.

[Dunit24]

Starters- Medlen, Minor, Teheran, Beachy, Wood
Pen - Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter, Martinez, Hale, Avilan, Venters

LaStella - 2b
Simmons - SS
Freeman - 1B
JUpton - LF
Heyward - RF
Gattis - C
Johnson - 3B
BUpton - CF

Bench of Laird, Uggla, Pena, Schafer, Terdoslavich

Still have 15-20 million to spend. I like the team we have NOW. This is what it would look like if the season started today. I dont want any Dan Harens. If we are going to make a trade, it should be for an ace or a stud hitter. Wren has already done a great job of building this team. Im making this post more for myself than anything. Losing McCann and Hudson sucked, but not worth the money. We need to focus on locking up the young guys and/or finding an ace.

[nsacpi]

Starters- Medlen, Minor, Teheran, Beachy, Wood
Pen - Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter, Martinez, Hale, Avilan, Venters

LaStella - 2b
Simmons - SS
Freeman - 1B
JUpton - LF
Heyward - RF
Gattis - C
Johnson - 3B
BUpton - CF

Bench of Laird, Uggla, Pena, Schafer, Terdoslavich

Still have 15-20 million to spend. I like the team we have NOW. This is what it would look like if the season started today. I dont want any Dan Harens. If we are going to make a trade, it should be for an ace or a stud hitter. Wren has already done a great job of building this team. Im making this post more for myself than anything. Losing McCann and Hudson sucked, but not worth the money. We need to focus on locking up the young guys and/or finding an ace.

Very useful reminder of where we stand. What Wren has to focus on is making moves that actually upgrade the team. Not moves that get a veteran starter just because he is a veteran and not in fact better than what we already have. Not moves that spend money just because we have the budget. It should all be about finding upgrades in a cost efficient way. Wren also needs to keep some budget in reserve for mid-season moves.

Looking at the above roster, I think the one item we need is a second lefty for the pen. Venters will not be ready until sometime in June. I don't want Fredi running Avilan into the ground those first two months because he is the only reliable lefty in the pen. There are a handful of lefty free agents I would interested in: Oliver Perez, JP Howell and Bob Thornton as a possible rebound candidate. On the trade market, I'd talk to the Blue Jays about Brett Cecil, the Twins about Brian Duensing, the Cubs about James Russell and the Rays about Wesley Wright. We have a surplus of right-handed pitching ticketed for AAA this year and I would look to use that in making any deal for a lefty reliever.

[thethe]

I'd bring in a FA. I wouldn't want to waste one of our bullets on a left handed reliever.

[nsacpi]

I'd bring in a FA. I wouldn't want to waste one of our bullets on a left handed reliever.

Me too. But free agents won't be cheap or risk-free either. Javier Lopez getting a three year deal at age 36 might set the FA market for lefty relief so high that a trade might actually be the better way to go.

Cody Martin is a nice prospect who will have a hard time making it with the Braves. For a team that is rebuilding and looking for some starting pitching depth he would have some real value. I'm thinking along the lines of maybe Martin plus a right-handed reliever ticketed for AAA for Duensing or Russell.

[Tapate50]

Spending just to spend is one thing that I disagree with, but I have heard the song and dance of saving money for a midseason move and how you can get a player for half price at the deadline a million times, but in the end we don't end up doing much (probably not FW's fault). So i'll believe all this when I see it about having all this money.

[nsacpi]

Spending just to spend is one thing that I disagree with, but I have heard the song and dance of saving money for a midseason move and how you can get a player for half price at the deadline a million times, but in the end we don't end up doing much (probably not FW's fault). So i'll believe all this when I see it about having all this money.

We did put in a claim on Lohse at the deadline last season. There is at least a hint there of willingness/ability to spend at the deadline. Maybe we were looking to make a deal that would have involved the Brewers picking up part of the salary. But we simply don't know because the Brewers pulled him back from waivers and said they had no interest in moving him.

[thethe]

Me too. But free agents won't be cheap or risk-free either. Javier Lopez getting a three year deal at age 36 might set the FA market for lefty relief so high that a trade might actually be the better way to go.

Cody Martin is a nice prospect who will have a hard time making it with the Braves. For a team that is rebuilding and looking for some starting pitching depth he would have some real value. I'm thinking along the lines of maybe Martin plus a right-handed reliever ticketed for AAA for Duensing or Russell.

The current struture of the Braves is such that they can afford to spend on a reliever for a two year deal. If you can get Ollie on a 2 year 8M dollar deal I'd do it.

[nsacpi]

The current struture of the Braves is such that they can afford to spend on a reliever for a two year deal. If you can get Ollie on a 2 year 8M dollar deal I'd do it.

That's a fair price for Ollie. I suspect there will be other teams offering something similar.

[50PoundHead]

I'd have like Haren at that price. Exactly the kind of thing I think the Braves should be looking for. One can argue it's a slight overpay, but it's a one-year deal.

[Knucksie]

Like we told you last time you got all huffy over a Murph trade proposal, this a board for discussion. And I for one love reading all the crazy trades people come up with from this site. And I hope they keep coming. Please everyone, come up with some crazy trade ideas. It is fun.

Yes, life must be very challenging after the season ends with no fantasy leagues.

[clvclv]

Starters- Medlen, Minor, Teheran, Beachy, Wood
Pen - Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter, Martinez, Hale, Avilan, Venters

LaStella - 2b
Simmons - SS
Freeman - 1B
JUpton - LF
Heyward - RF
Gattis - C
Johnson - 3B
BUpton - CF

Bench of Laird, Uggla, Pena, Schafer, Terdoslavich

Still have 15-20 million to spend. I like the team we have NOW. This is what it would look like if the season started today. I dont want any Dan Harens. If we are going to make a trade, it should be for an ace or a stud hitter. Wren has already done a great job of building this team. Im making this post more for myself than anything. Losing McCann and Hudson sucked, but not worth the money. We need to focus on locking up the young guys and/or finding an ace.


This is the point of view Wren & Company have to take - the team listed above won the Division (going away) with career-worst seasons from B. J. and Uggla, Freeman, Heyward, Pena, Beachy, Hudson, EOF, and Venters all missing significant time, and Simmons and Gattis adjusting to this level. The core is in place and under control for the forseeable future - you tweak a little here and there (strengthening the bench and pen) and pounce when the opportunity to land a true difference-maker appears.

To this point, that guy hasn't become available at a price that makes any sense.

[Tapate50]

Royals are interested in shopping Tim Collins (was a brave farmhand for a minute or two and never should have moved) and Aaron Crow.

I'd be interested in bringing Collins aboard. I'd give them Gilmartin for him.

[clvclv]

Pirates outrighted Kyle McPherson. Had Tommy John Surgery last summer. Wouldn't be a bad stash if Wren could make room for him - was in their Top 10 (BA) at one point with really nice K/BB ratios.

[Hawk]

Royals are interested in shopping Tim Collins (was a brave farmhand for a minute or two and never should have moved) and Aaron Crow.

I'd be interested in bringing Collins aboard. I'd give them Gilmartin for him.

Wasn't Collins the shorty we acquired from Toronto with Alex Gonzalez for Yunel? Then flipped days (?) later for Farnsworth and Ankiel?

Edit: Yup, we also got Pastornicky in the Toronto deal. For some reason I thought he was a Braves product from day one. Gregor Blanco and Jesse Chavez also went with Collins to Kansas City. Wow.