Brian McCann

[CrimsonCowboy]

Evan Grant ‏@Evan_P_Grant 2m
Sources: #Rangers won't land Brian McCann; catcher on verge of deal with NY #Yankees. http://sulia.com/my_thoughts/08443970-7568-47fe-bb6b-f4b06aa7d693/?source=twitter …

[mossy]

Sad to see him go, but I wish Mac the best. We just can't pay him what he's worth.

[Lville21]

Brian should rack up plenty of homers with that short right field porch during his last few "prime" years.

[Tapate50]

What's that do to our pick?

[Dalyn]

http://highfivetothat.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/excuse-me-i-have-to-go-vomit.gif?w=584

[thethe]

What's that do to our pick?

Absolutely nothing. Its better that he signed witha competitive team because not only do the Braves get a pick but the Yankees lost theirs.

[Tapate50]

Absolutely nothing. Its better that he signed witha competitive team because not only do the Braves get a pick but the Yankees lost theirs.

Meant the pick we get.

[Heyward]

4:25pm: The Yankees remain in "serious" discussions with McCann, but a deal is not close, a source tells Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter).

Per MLBTR.

IF true, would be good for us, would put our pick one slot higher.

[thethe]

Its just one slot higher because the Yankees lose theirs.

[Heyward]

Meant the pick we get.


Oh, it's a pick after the first round.

Depends how many of the players tied to draft picks sign where.

Ideally most of them sign with teams after the top 10 and our pick/picks keeep moving up.

[Tapate50]

Gotcha, was a lil fuzzy on the new rules

[NinersSBChamps]

Wonder how much the Yankees are throwing at him? Upwards of 85 MM?

[kyky3911]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 2m

Source: McCann close with #Yankees on five-year deal for more than $80M.

[thethe]

Yankees are going to be regretting that deal in year 4.

[kyky3911]

Evan Grant ‏@Evan_P_Grant 1m

Am told McCann deal with Yankees will be worth close to $90 million, if not more

[CrimsonCowboy]

Evan Grant ‏@Evan_P_Grant 2m
Am told McCann deal with Yankees will be worth close to $90 million, if not more

[Heyward]

Wonder how much the Yankees are throwing at him? Upwards of 85 MM?

Thats what i want to know.

I would think he wants more than what Yadi got or at least on par with that.

6 years, 90-100 mil would be my guess.

Or 5 years, 80-85 mil.

[chopdrew]

Good for him. Wish him nothing but the best. Just thought the price was too great for us for an aging, injury prone C when we need to lock down Heyward & Freeman...

[NinersSBChamps]

Thats what i want to know.

I would think he wants more than what Yadi got or at least on par with that.

6 years, 90-100 mil would be my guess.

Or 5 years, 80-85 mil.

I love McCann, but that is a ridiculous contract if he ends up with something close to this. Granted I do think he'll hit better in New York, but this is real surprising.

[Heyward]

I love McCann, but that is a ridiculous contract if he ends up with something close to this. Granted I do think he'll hit better in New York, but this is real surprising.

Not to me.

FA is crazy with contracts.

I love him too but not at the rumored price, 5 years, 80-90+ million.

[Tapate50]

I love McCann, but that is a ridiculous contract if he ends up with something close to this. Granted I do think he'll hit better in New York, but this is real surprising.

Not shocked in the least. Most folks saw it coming a mile away

[NinersSBChamps]

Not shocked in the least. Most folks saw it coming a mile away

I think it's an absurd number for a guy who's aging and injury prone.

[kyky3911]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 13s

Source: McCann deal with #Yankees is 5/85 with sixth-year vesting option that could bring it to 6/100.

[thethe]

I thought Mac would get a little more per year but 5 years is just insane.

[Heyward]

Not shocked in the least. Most folks saw it coming a mile away

I wasnt sure how much he would get but this market is mega weak for catchers so figured he would cash in.

5 years is risky but the Yankees have no MLB catchers.

Good luck to him, should rake in that park.

[kyky3911]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 36s

Average salary of $17M for McCann with #Yankees highest for free-agent catcher. Mauer's $24M average highest overall.

[kyky3911]

Jason Heyward ‏@JasonHeyward now

Beeeee Macccccckkkk

[kyky3911]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 6m

Yankees/McCann deal will have 6th year option to take it to $100M. He will be a yankee

[kyky3911]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves now

Can confirm McCann deal w/ Yankees is done, pending physical. 5 yrs, $85M with vesting option that can take it to 6/$100M

[50PoundHead]

Kind of figured that's where the per year would end up. Just surprised that someone gave him 5 years.

[jpx7]

Weak.

I was hoping McCann would sign with almost any team but the Yankees.

[jason27nc]

I hate the Yankees. I hate it when one of ours go there when they are done here. I'm not happy but oh well. You guys are forgetting that the Yankees can DH him and he should be good for 5 or 6 more years.

[Bj1133]

Good for Brian. I think the Braves will miss his ability behind the plate almost as much as his ability at the plate. He always handled the pitching staff well and I hope he does big things in NY. Would be great to see him in the HoF one day.

[NYCBrave]

Curious to see how he works out in NY. Being from NYC, the media obviously isn't as kind to the players here as they are in Atlanta. I know McCann is a country boy, so he might not be used to the eventual criticism he'll receive on the back pages.

[NYCBrave]

Also, I'm not happy about him being a Yankee either, but it could have been worse, at least it wasn't to one of our division rivals.

[bravebonebook]

Why do I feel a little nauseous looking at Jason Heyward's comment above?? Instead of mild congrats for him or a regret that his teammate is now gone to another team, it reeks of high fives like they just won the WS! JHey will probably turn down an extension and bolt for the $$$ the moment he turns a free agent... Modern baseball just sucks sometimes unless you have all the money!

[ChapelHillMatt]

Good riddance! Sick of players only caring about money.

[skillet]

I just threw up a bit in my mouth. I hate the Yankees. At least our first two picks just moved up from 29 and 40 to 28 and 39.

[NYCBrave]

Why do I feel a little nauseous looking at Jason Heyward's comment above?? Instead of mild congrats for him or a regret that his teammate is now gone to another team, it reeks of high fives like they just won the WS! JHey will probably turn down an extension and bolt for the $$$ the moment he turns a free agent... Modern baseball just sucks sometimes unless you have all the money!

I hate to say it, but I got the same impression. We're probably over analyzing the situation, but I've always known that the die hard fans in the most cases care more than the players. For them, it's a job.

And to read entirely further too much into it, I don't see Heyward giving a discount on an extension lol.

[acesfull86]

Yuck the Fankees.

[NinersSBChamps]

Good riddance! Sick of players only caring about money.

So basically quit watching sports because that is all players care about.

[NinersSBChamps]

Yuck the Fankees.

Muck the Fets.

[ChapelHillMatt]

So basically quit watching sports because that is all players care about.

The idea has crossed my mind.

All my teams stink anyway.

[bravePT]

**** mccann, seriously

[bravebonebook]

So basically quit watching sports because that is all players care about.

You joke but it gets harder and harder to support individual players. My sons play sports for the fun, health and competition BUT don't really enjoy watching games on TV because they even see players leaving for just $. Sure, I'm OK with McCann getting the contract with the Skankees (since the Braves weren't going to match anything near that) and I'm sure 20 of the smart posters on here will explain to me that I'm reading too much into Heyward's comment. But how far do you go to defend these guys; how much do you hear and read until you just don't care about them any more?

[bravePT]

Bull****...If we can't keep McCann, who can we keep? A georgia native, a lifetime brave and he just leaves to go to them ****ing bitches, **** that...I hope Arod wins his case and the Yankees owe him 1 billion dollars

[NinersSBChamps]

Does Mac still go hunting with Chipper? That is the main question.

[Heyward]

You joke but it gets harder and harder to support individual players. My sons play sports for the fun, health and competition BUT don't really enjoy watching games on TV because they even see players leaving for just $. Sure, I'm OK with McCann getting the contract with the Skankees (since the Braves weren't going to match anything near that) and I'm sure 20 of the smart posters on here will explain to me that I'm reading too much into Heyward's comment. But how far do you go to defend these guys; how much do you hear and read until you just don't care about them any more?

I knew Mac was gone for the last 2 years, just no way to give him that much money.

Im not sure on Heyward's tweet, could mean a number of things.

It will cost a lot to keep him bottom line.

[Heyward]

Bull****...If we can't keep McCann, who can we keep? A georgia native, a lifetime brave and he just leaves to go to them ****ing bitches, **** that...I hope Arod wins his case and the Yankees owe him 1 billion dollars

Giving Mac, 85 million for 5 years, potentially 100 million for 6 entering his 30's is a bad business move.

I dont mind seeing him go, great player, great clubhouse guy but for that much money?

Who can they keep i dont know, takes two to tango.

[bravebonebook]

I knew Mac was gone for the last 2 years, just no way to give him that much money.

Im not sure on Heyward's tweet, could mean a number of things.

It will cost a lot to keep him bottom line.

I suppose McCann getting the money isn't the problem. The problem is the players expecting it; some owners throwing around huge contracts; no fair financial balance between teams; all business, nothing else.

How do we fans cheer for the player when they don't care about the uniform they wear as soon as their contract ends? I wonder why we cheer for a team when the players come and go with no thought of us? Curious, psychological questions

[Bdawg2309]

didnt want either hudson or mccann back... but them signing w/ the giants/yankees....

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/dcfing.gif

[thethe]

Good riddance! Sick of players only caring about money.

Too bad that is every player but I agree with you.

[TXBravesFan]

Having a hard time picturing Mac in pinstripes. Can't blame him though.

[Perfect Cell]

God forbid a player goes and wants a better offer. I don't get the hate for players when they sign contracts. Id rather people get angry at ownership and leadership of our team for not wanting to invest more to keep these players long term. Weve essentially become a farm team for the higher end teams like the Yankees, Red Sox or La Dodgers or Stl Cardinals. Its a shame but its our reality.


Best of luck to Heap. Ill miss him. Best catcher we had since Javy Lopez, and he wont be replaced easily.

[thethe]

His past performance won't be easy to replace. his future performance will be much less difficult to do so.

[Perfect Cell]

Ill bet he outperforms Gattis next year. This is without considering that McCann is leaps and bounds better defensively/calling games. The Braves will hope to get something from Gattis who has a bat but sucks defensively and CB who is good defensively but sucks with the bat. Neither will be a long term solution there since Carratini will probably be the longer term solution there.

[thethe]

Gattis does not suck defensively. Not sure what you were watching. He isn't what Mac is in terms of managing a staff (even though we haven't had a chance to see Gattis do that over a full season).

[nsacpi]

Steamer projects McCann with an .781 OPS, 21 HRs and 3.6 WAR.

They project Gattis with a .779 OPS, 26 HRs and 4.1 WAR. They like his defense better than McCann and have him playing more games.

I think we'll miss McCann's game calling and leadership the most. I suspect some of our pitchers will take a step backwards without him.

[thethe]

Steamer projects McCann with an .781 OPS, 21 HRs and 3.6 WAR.

They project Gattis with a .779 OPS, 26 HRs and 4.1 WAR. They like his defense better than McCann and have him playing more games.

I think we'll miss McCann's game calling and leadership the most. I suspect some of our pitchers will take a step backwards without him.

Thats because in a small sample Gattis showed to be an above average defensive catcher. Now maybe he gets exposed with more playing time but he could get even better with more playing time as well. Only time will tell.

[gilesfan]

Good riddance! Sick of players only caring about money.

Are you accusing McCann of only caring about money? If so, why? What if he wants to play in NY and in the AL? And who cares of he plays for money, don't you work for money of love?

Good move by Yanks. He may be a tad overpaid at the backend, but maybe not if he can DH at times. Will always root for Brian, happy for him in a way.

[Heyward]

Ill bet he outperforms Gattis next year. This is without considering that McCann is leaps and bounds better defensively/calling games. The Braves will hope to get something from Gattis who has a bat but sucks defensively and CB who is good defensively but sucks with the bat. Neither will be a long term solution there since Carratini will probably be the longer term solution there.

Gattis is pretty decent defensively at C, he isnt good in LF, where now he will be catching full-time unless CB blows up.

Mac will do better because he will rake in that park with the short porch.

[Perfect Cell]

Are you accusing McCann of only caring about money? If so, why? What if he wants to play in NY and in the AL? And who cares of he plays for money, don't you work for money of love?

Good move by Yanks. He may be a tad overpaid at the backend, but maybe not if he can DH at times. Will always root for Brian, happy for him in a way.



Funny to hear people acusing Heap of wanting money. Since when him and Francour were gonna sign heap signed a team friendly contract while frenchy wanted to be for the money and I don't remember people ****ting on frenchy then lol.

[Heyward]

Are you accusing McCann of only caring about money? If so, why? What if he wants to play in NY and in the AL? And who cares of he plays for money, don't you work for money of love?

Good move by Yanks. He may be a tad overpaid at the backend, but maybe not if he can DH at times. Will always root for Brian, happy for him in a way.

This, and whose to say the Braves even offered him all that much.

I saw they talked with him last Friday or his agent but i doubt enough where he would stay.

Sometimes it's best to part ways, though i would of liked him back, doesnt mean Mac is greedy though.

[NYCBrave]

I think it would make a lot of us feel better (or at least me, myself) to have heard Mac come out in the press and express his desire to remain in Atlanta and say something along the lines that he hoped Atlanta would offer. Then you've got Heyward over there seemingly celebrating Mac's new contract. It stings.

[Bdawg2309]

I think it would make a lot of us feel better (or at least me, myself) to have heard Mac come out in the press and express his desire to remain in Atlanta and say something along the lines that he hoped Atlanta would offer. Then you've got Heyward over there seemingly celebrating Mac's new contract. It stings.

and minor

[thewupk]

Good to see Mac get paid. He deserves it for what he's done in his career. Sucks the Braves couldn't keep him but he's a premier free agent while the Braves are a mid market team and have capable replacements.

[The Chosen One]

As pointed out before, Heyward grew up a Yankees fan (he was born in McDonough, but his parents from from NJ). So maybe he goes there anyways.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Are you accusing McCann of only caring about money? If so, why? What if he wants to play in NY and in the AL? And who cares of he plays for money, don't you work for money of love?

Good move by Yanks. He may be a tad overpaid at the backend, but maybe not if he can DH at times. Will always root for Brian, happy for him in a way.

LOL if you think he signed with the Yanks for any reason other than the money. He was going to play with the team that gave him the most money. It's all he cared about, hence the reason why him and his agent came out and said they wanted a $100 million contract. I have no respect for him or any other players with that mindset. They don't need the money to make ends meet, they just want to be the highest paid player at their position. It's all about pride and ego with profresional athletes these days.

[mossy]

Why does it matter what Heyward or anyone else says? None of us know them personally, so I say we ignore the tweets.

Not every player is going to be a Chipper Jones that stays here below value for their whole career.

[gilesfan]

LOL if you think he signed with the Yanks for any
reason other than the money. He was going to play with the team that gave him the most money. It's all he cared about, hence the reason why him and his agent came out and said they wanted a $100 million contract. I have no respect for him or any other players with that mindset. They don't need the money to make ends meet, they just want to be the highest paid player at their position. It's all about pride and ego with profresional athletes these days.

Show me where he had better offers (in terms of some thing other than money) from other teams

[zitothebrave]

LOL if you think he signed with the Yanks for any reason other than the money. He was going to play with the team that gave him the most money. It's all he cared about, hence the reason why him and his agent came out and said they wanted a $100 million contract. I have no respect for him or any other players with that mindset. They don't need the money to make ends meet, they just want to be the highest paid player at their position. It's all about pride and ego with profresional athletes these days.
The list of professional athletes you admire must be the shortest list ever.

[Heyward]

LOL if you think he signed with the Yanks for any reason other than the money. He was going to play with the team that gave him the most money. It's all he cared about, hence the reason why him and his agent came out and said they wanted a $100 million contract. I have no respect for him or any other players with that mindset. They don't need the money to make ends meet, they just want to be the highest paid player at their position. It's all about pride and ego with profresional athletes these days.

So if we offered him 5/75, with a 6th year option, a little less than he signed for.

You think he leaves.

And like anyone has ever not signed less, and always for the money.

[The Chosen One]

Before we say Maddux, Smoltz, Chipper, took lowball offers to stay with us we have to remember:

1) We were still Top 3 in payroll those days when we gave them extensions.
2) While they weren't the best deals, they were still getting paid at or slightly above market value.
3) Playing for a team they were already comfortable with in a state with not as high of taxes, where they could play golf regularly, and for a manager they loved, and a team that had a chance to compete year to year it made the decision easier.

I doubt Wren offered Mac anything even close to what the Yankees, probably not even half and for the samea mount of years.

[Heyward]

Before we say Maddux, Smoltz, Chipper, took lowball offers to stay with us we have to remember:

1) We were still Top 3 in payroll those days when we gave them extensions.
2) While they weren't the best deals, they were still getting paid at or slightly above market value.
3) Playing for a team they were already comfortable with in a state with not as high of taxes, where they could play golf regularly, and for a manager they loved, and a team that had a chance to compete year to year it made the decision easier.

I doubt Wren offered Mac anything even close to what the Yankees, probably not even half and for the samea mount of years.

I think he offered him 4/60, maybe.

[Gary82]

Good riddance! Sick of players only caring about money.

BUT ITS 17 ****ING MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR! ****! I'd take that. My family would be set up for life. I'd be on the ****ing Yankees. I know we hate the Yankees, but damn, congrats to BMac.

[The Chosen One]

I think he offered him 4/60, maybe.

Is this confirmed or was it only speculative?

I wonder if a 4/60 plus a 5th year option would've done it. By then maybe Freeman is a free agent and out of our price range and Mac could play 1st for a few seasons.

[ChapelHillMatt]

The list of professional athletes you admire must be the shortest list ever.

I don't admire professional athletes, period! They don't know what it's like to live from paycheck to paycheck. They have everything handed to them on a silver platter. That's not to say they don't put in hard work to be great at what they do but when you get down to it they get paid millions to play a game and never have to worry about their finances. I'm not so sure why we should admire any of them.

[The Chosen One]

I don't admire professional athletes, period! They don't know what it's like to live from paycheck to paycheck. They have everything handed to them on a silver platter. That's not to say they don't put in hard work to be great at what they do but when you get down to it they get paid millions to play a game and never have to worry about their finances. I'm not so sure why we should admire any of them.

Not all professional athletes were raised in good shape. I mean a lot of the guys grew up in lower middle class-poor conditions. So while they didn't have to work and live paycheck to paycheck, I'm sure their parents did. Especially the latin-american players who grew up in the slums. I don't blame them for taking the most money possible, because they're probably taking care of many extended family members in their native countries.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I think he offered him 4/60, maybe.

That's still $15 million a year! You are acting like that's chump change.

I doubt we even offered him a contract. I think the Braves want to move on regardless of the price.

[Gary82]

I don't admire professional athletes, period! They don't know what it's like to live from paycheck to paycheck. They have everything handed to them on a silver platter. That's not to say they don't put in hard work to be great at what they do but when you get down to it they get paid millions to play a game and never have to worry about their finances. I'm not so sure why we should admire any of them.

They work very ****ing hard. In fact, some are abused as children because their parents want to live their dreams through them. They get paid so much money because they're world class talents with skills that not many can play at that level. They also get paid that much because people ****ing love sports. It's tribal ****.

Criticizing them because they don't live pay check to pay check is so ****ing stupid. Is that measure of a man, now?

[Heyward]

Is this confirmed or was it only speculative?

I wonder if a 4/60 plus a 5th year option would've done it. By then maybe Freeman is a free agent and out of our price range and Mac could play 1st for a few seasons.

Im just speculating, i dont think they wanted to bring him back ala like the Cards and Pujols, Rangers and Hamilton, etc.

[Heyward]

I don't admire professional athletes, period! They don't know what it's like to live from paycheck to paycheck. They have everything handed to them on a silver platter. That's not to say they don't put in hard work to be great at what they do but when you get down to it they get paid millions to play a game and never have to worry about their finances. I'm not so sure why we should admire any of them.

Their career could be over on one play, i cant disagree with you more.

[weso1]

The idea has crossed my mind.

All my teams stink anyway.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong about Mac, but it's not like the Yankees are a horrible organization to go play for. I mean it's possible he turns down that same money say if the Astros offered it instead of the Yanks.

[Gary82]

So, our offense got worse.

[nsacpi]

So, our offense got worse.

Yeah, some but not a lot. The way I look at it is McCann's at bats as catcher mainly get re-distributed to Gattis. And Gattis' at bats as a backup outfielder and first baseman get mostly re-distributed to Joey T as of right now, though it is possible we will acquire someone else who will get most of those at bats. I think Joey T will be our most important backup/pinch hitter this coming season.

[thewupk]

LOL if you think he signed with the Yanks for any reason other than the money. He was going to play with the team that gave him the most money. It's all he cared about, hence the reason why him and his agent came out and said they wanted a $100 million contract. I have no respect for him or any other players with that mindset. They don't need the money to make ends meet, they just want to be the highest paid player at their position. It's all about pride and ego with profresional athletes these days.

The Yankees should be competitive next year. And Mac is going to crush it in that park. Really good chance of making the HOF by going there.

[thewupk]

I don't admire professional athletes, period! They don't know what it's like to live from paycheck to paycheck. They have everything handed to them on a silver platter. That's not to say they don't put in hard work to be great at what they do but when you get down to it they get paid millions to play a game and never have to worry about their finances. I'm not so sure why we should admire any of them.

Yes I am sure most players never worried about living pay check to pay check in the minors. They all signed for mega millions out of high school.

[Metaphysicist]

That's still $15 million a year! You are acting like that's chump change.

I doubt we even offered him a contract. I think the Braves want to move on regardless of the price.

So... you think we didn't even offer him anything. But you also think he is a horrible human being for signing elsewhere. What exactly would you have him do? Volunteer his services for free to the Braves?

[The Chosen One]

So... you think we didn't even offer him anything. But you also think he is a horrible human being for signing elsewhere. What exactly would you have him do? Volunteer his services for free to the Braves?

I actually would've preferred he volunteer his face and endorsement of Chopcountry to the entire Braves Country, free of charge.

[cajunrevenge]

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong about Mac, but it's not like the Yankees are a horrible organization to go play for. I mean it's possible he turns down that same money say if the Astros offered it instead of the Yanks.

They arent a horrible organization? If not for playing in the largest market in a sport with no salary cap they would be the Knicks of MLB. They spent 220 million dollars last year and didnt even make the playoffs. The Braves could sign Cano, Garza, Brian Wilson, Joe Nathan, Brian McCann, Ellsbury, Choo, and Carlos Beltran and STILL not be at 220 million. Imagine not making the playoffs after signing adding all those players. The Yankees are the laughing stock of american sports. Its like Michael Jordan losing to a 5 year old with down syndrome in basketball. Its just down right sad.

I wish Brian well in all his personal affairs but I wish nothing but the worst in his yankee career. If he gets a world series ring he will have earned it as much as anyone who bought one off ebay. Baseball is the only major american sport without a salary cap and its getting harder to support in my opinion. If the Yankees produced great home grown talent and they had a 200 million payroll just from re-signing their own home grown talent it wouldnt bother me but poaching talent from teams that cant compete with their financial advantage pisses me off.

[Dalyn]

:facepalm:

[thewupk]

They arent a horrible organization? If not for playing in the largest market in a sport with no salary cap they would be the Knicks of MLB. They spent 220 million dollars last year and didnt even make the playoffs. The Braves could sign Cano, Garza, Brian Wilson, Joe Nathan, Brian McCann, Ellsbury, Choo, and Carlos Beltran and STILL not be at 220 million. Imagine not making the playoffs after signing adding all those players. The Yankees are the laughing stock of american sports. Its like Michael Jordan losing to a 5 year old with down syndrome in basketball. Its just down right sad.

I wish Brian well in all his personal affairs but I wish nothing but the worst in his yankee career. If he gets a world series ring he will have earned it as much as anyone who bought one off ebay. Baseball is the only major american sport without a salary cap and its getting harder to support in my opinion. If the Yankees produced great home grown talent and they had a 200 million payroll just from re-signing their own home grown talent it wouldnt bother me but poaching talent from teams that cant compete with their financial advantage pisses me off.

You should be more upset with the Braves ownership not spending money and falling to the back of the pack instead of the Yankees and other teams who try to win. Yes, baseball doesn't have a salary cap. But they also have guaranteed contracts. Arod would of been cut years ago if this was like the NFL. So it has it's pros and cons. You want to go crazy and pay extra so other teams can't have a player? Cool. You are going to pay him guaranteed money when he's a league average player at the end of his career.

[PawPawMaxwell]

LOL if you think he signed with the Yanks for any reason other than the money. He was going to play with the team that gave him the most money. It's all he cared about, hence the reason why him and his agent came out and said they wanted a $100 million contract. I have no respect for him or any other players with that mindset. They don't need the money to make ends meet, they just want to be the highest paid player at their position. It's all about pride and ego with profresional athletes these days.

I'll bet you named your dogs Furcal and Jones just so you can kick them at dinner time.

[zitothebrave]

I don't admire professional athletes, period! They don't know what it's like to live from paycheck to paycheck. They have everything handed to them on a silver platter. That's not to say they don't put in hard work to be great at what they do but when you get down to it they get paid millions to play a game and never have to worry about their finances. I'm not so sure why we should admire any of them.

That's a harsh generalization. Many professional athletes come from little or average means. Can you blame them if they want their kids to have it much better off than they did?

If you have an issue with what players make then don't watch sports. I think the amount of money that reality TV stars get paid to be talentless is baffling, I don't watch reality TV. These people are out there to make money for themselves, the teams show no loyalty to the players, so why should players show any loyalty to their team? It sucks as fans but baseball or any sport is a business first. The teams are out there to make money and so are the players.

I never said you should admire a professional athlete, you were the one who said you can't admire someone who's in it just for the money or whatever.

[ChapelHillMatt]

So... you think we didn't even offer him anything. But you also think he is a horrible human being for signing elsewhere. What exactly would you have him do? Volunteer his services for free to the Braves?

Never said he was a horrible human being. I said he was in it for the money and he was. He's not worth $100 million and that's what he was asking for. Just once I'd like someone to sign for something other than money when it's obvious they don't need it. Here we are living in tough economic times. You have families literally struggling to make ends meet and professional athletes are making millions. Just doesn't seem right. I'm not upset he left the Braves, he's been in decline the last few years. His numbers shouldn't be that hard to replace. This is a rant vs professional athletes in general more than it is something against McCann.

[Perfect Cell]

Hes just a cog Matt, You don't think ownership is making millions too?

[Perfect Cell]

I'm being honest here, sometimes when a player gets 85-100 million dollars I roll my eyes and think, how are they gonna waste it...Not today!!! I'm thrilled for the McCann family! Watch the good they do! They already do great work with the Rally Foundation, among others. The Braves will miss him, but the area of Atlanta should be so glad that kind of money went to that quality of family!



Matt Diaz on McCanns deal.

[gtcway]

I know that it was best to let McCann leave, but I'm upset that the Braves gave BJ 5 years and 75 million and didn't even try to keep McCann.

[thethe]

Hes just a cog Matt, You don't think ownership is making millions too?

Agreed...we are the poor saps that continue to spends ridiculous money on sports. Its really our faults.

[thethe]

I know that it was best to let McCann leave, but I'm upset that the Braves gave BJ 5 years and 75 million and didn't even try to keep McCann.

Braves had no realistic options in CF that they wanted to utilize (moving Heyward to CF). Braves have two catching options behind Mac and paying 30+ year old catchers is never a goodt hing.

[Perfect Cell]

Braves had no realistic options in CF that they wanted to utilize (moving Heyward to CF). Braves have two catching options behind Mac and paying 30+ year old catchers is never a goodt hing.



this isn't always correct. Jorge Posada for instance was productive till his late 30s.

[thethe]

Outliers always exist. I'll take my chances on Mac not being worth that contract.

[NYCBrave]

The Yankees should be competitive next year. And Mac is going to crush it in that park. Really good chance of making the HOF by going there.

I don't think he'll have a HOF shot unless he's able to remain at catcher until his late 30s, which at this point is looking like a long shot. The Yankees will probably DH him pretty often.

[Perfect Cell]

Outliers always exist. I'll take my chances on Mac not being worth that contract.

Larry Parrish and Gary Carter are most similar to him on Baseball reference. Carter was a good catcher for a bit in his 30s.

[AerchAngel]

You should be more upset with the Braves ownership not spending money and falling to the back of the pack instead of the Yankees and other teams who try to win. Yes, baseball doesn't have a salary cap. But they also have guaranteed contracts. Arod would of been cut years ago if this was like the NFL. So it has it's pros and cons. You want to go crazy and pay extra so other teams can't have a player? Cool. You are going to pay him guaranteed money when he's a league average player at the end of his career.

Because our owners have some sanity. Giving a person to play a game 30 mil a year is stupid, many players, even stupider. It is just a game and if you don't bring in the fans and your bottom line is not as you hope, you do not make stupid decisions. Boras killed free agency and there is nothing we can do about it.

[thewupk]

I don't think he'll have a HOF shot unless he's able to remain at catcher until his late 30s, which at this point is looking like a long shot. The Yankees will probably DH him pretty often.

IF the DH him throughout his contract he should be able to remain at catcher for all of his contract. And I don't think you understand how good that park is to lefties.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/season-preview/2012/2613073.html

For lefties it's basically like playing in Coors. Mac is going to crush it there like Granderson did when he came over.

[thewupk]

Because our owners have some sanity. Giving a person to play a game 30 mil a year is stupid, many players, even stupider. It is just a game and if you don't bring in the fans and your bottom line is not as you hope, you do not make stupid decisions. Boras killed free agency and there is nothing we can do about it.

Our owners are cheap. They could raise the payroll 50 million and still be in good shape. Now I understand why we let Mac go. I wouldn't have signed him to that deal either. But I doubt we keep Heyward either.

[AerchAngel]

Our owners are cheap. They could raise the payroll 50 million and still be in good shape. Now I understand why we let Mac go. I wouldn't have signed him to that deal either. But I doubt we keep Heyward either.

No, they aren't cheap but you think they are cheap.

They values and morals are different than yours, deal with it.

They DON'T CARE about you. They care about themselves and the money they can make or save. If you want to hurt them, don't show up at the game.

You bitching, complaining is not going to change their mind.

Again, deal with it.

[thewupk]

No, they aren't cheap but you think they are cheap.

They values and morals are different than yours, deal with it.

They DON'T CARE about you. They care about themselves and the money they can make or save. If you want to hurt them, don't show up at the game.

You bitching, complaining is not going to change their mind.

Again, deal with it.

Why so hostile? Compared to other teams the Braves are cheap. That is fact. Deal with it.

[zitothebrave]

Outliers always exist. I'll take my chances on Mac not being worth that contract.

Outliers do exist but those outliers are often players along McCann's caliber.

[NYCBrave]

IF the DH him throughout his contract he should be able to remain at catcher for all of his contract. And I don't think you understand how good that park is to lefties.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/season-preview/2012/2613073.html

For lefties it's basically like playing in Coors. Mac is going to crush it there like Granderson did when he came over.

So what type of numbers are you predicting over the next few years? Sure, it helped Granderson's power numbers, but despite the power Granderson hit .232 and .229 the past two seasons. Remember, McCann hit .256 and .230 the past two seasons. Is Yankee stadium going to magically bring him back to his prime Atlanta numbers?

[Tino25Dynasty]

We can thank that lovely contract to BJ Upton for this.... It's simple, do not give a guy who had done as little as BJ that much damn money and we have the money to resign McCann.... That contract really ****ed us up

[Hawk]

Why so hostile? Compared to other teams the Braves are cheap. That is fact. Deal with it.

Liberty is thrifty, but not cheap.

[The Chosen One]

We can thank that lovely contract to BJ Upton for this.... It's simple, do not give a guy who had done as little as BJ that much damn money and we have the money to resign McCann.... That contract really ****ed us up

BJ's contract only looks bad because of 2013.

[Tino25Dynasty]

BJ's contract only looks bad because of 2013.

Uh, no... We can't look back because it was on scout.com.... But I thought the contract was a joke AT THE TIME of the signing.... He never was that great a player. He's never even been to one all star game for pete's sake.... And yet he was given star type money... He was a solid player at best

[Hawk]

It seems like we spent the past three years waiting for Mac to 'get hot again' -- between injuries, of course. I don't think he maintains value even half-way through his contract with NY. Will miss his fire, but not his game-calling. Excited for Bethancourt/Gattis. More excited to see how we reallocate his money.

[Heyward]

We can thank that lovely contract to BJ Upton for this.... It's simple, do not give a guy who had done as little as BJ that much damn money and we have the money to resign McCann.... That contract really ****ed us up

BJ's contract has nothing to do with this, quit bitching.

They could of kept him if they wanted too but they didnt make much effort to sign him.

[The Chosen One]

Uh, no... We can't look back because it was on scout.com.... But I thought the contract was a joke AT THE TIME of the signing.... He never was that great a player. He's never even been to one all star game for pete's sake.... And yet he was given star type money... He was a solid player at best

That's the market. His salary may look like a joke, but that's because of league wide inflation.

I don't think he was given star type money because stars are now getting over 20 million a year now.

[Tino25Dynasty]

That's the market. His salary may look like a joke, but that's because of league wide inflation.

I don't think he was given star type money because stars are now getting over 20 million a year now.

I personally have a differing definition of stars and superstars... For instance, my favorite player tino martinez was a "star" but wasn't a superstar... BJ wasn't given superstar type money but definitely star type... More appropriate for someone who's at least made an all star team or two have better than a .248 career average, better than average like .310 for an OBP, and also at least have maybe one gold glove or something.... He was a solid player.

[thewupk]

So what type of numbers are you predicting over the next few years? Sure, it helped Granderson's power numbers, but despite the power Granderson hit .232 and .229 the past two seasons. Remember, McCann hit .256 and .230 the past two seasons. Is Yankee stadium going to magically bring him back to his prime Atlanta numbers?

Mac has also been unlucky in BABIP so that's why his batting average has been down. His homerun rate has stayed pretty consistent which obviously isn't influenced by BABIP. As for playing with the Yankees. I see him getting to 30 homers easily due to the fact that Yankee Stadium is a homerun haven for lefties and Mac will be able to DH when he's not catching so he should get more ABs now.

[Tino25Dynasty]

BJ's contract has nothing to do with this, quit bitching.

They could of kept him if they wanted too but they didnt make much effort to sign him.

They didn't want to tie themselves up with another Uggla or BJ contract so were much less aggressive in signing McCann so yes, you better believe that BJ contact played a part... No directly obviously but indirectly.

[Heyward]

They didn't want to tie themselves up with another Uggla or BJ contract so were much less aggressive in signing McCann so yes, you better believe that BJ contact played a part... No directly obviously but indirectly.

Uggla's contract is off the books in 2 years.

Again, BJ's deal has NOTHING to do with Mac.

If they wanted him, they would of offered him a big deal and tried to bring him back which they didn't.

The BJ/Uggla deals have no impact on Mac, the writing has been on the wall for the last 2 years.

[Knucksie]

What are you guys debating about?

They wouldn't have minded having McCann back, but not on a 5-year deal. We've been discussing the "aging catcher" issue enough here already. It was little doubt that he was going to head over the AL, where he could eventually DH in the latter years of the contract.

[NYCBrave]

Mac has also been unlucky in BABIP so that's why his batting average has been down. His homerun rate has stayed pretty consistent which obviously isn't influenced by BABIP. As for playing with the Yankees. I see him getting to 30 homers easily due to the fact that Yankee Stadium is a homerun haven for lefties and Mac will be able to DH when he's not catching so he should get more ABs now.

But why has he been unlucky with BABIP? It's because since they employed the shift on him, it takes away a lot of balls that would be hits. I don't think that's factored in when you look at BABIP.

[50PoundHead]

Liberty is thrifty, but not cheap.

Given most of Wren's free agent signings, I'd say the team has been anything but thrifty. Wren's been buying what they sell at the dollar store for twice/three times the price.

It's their team. They can do what they want. To me, outside of the big contracts we've doled out, we're starting to look like the late-90s/early-00s A's teams in that we're just training players for other markets. That can work if you have a steady stream of replacements and that's what we'll have to rely upon.

[thethe]

Given most of Wren's free agent signings, I'd say the team has been anything but thrifty. Wren's been buying what they sell at the dollar store for twice/three times the price.

It's their team. They can do what they want. To me, outside of the big contracts we've doled out, we're starting to look like the late-90s/early-00s A's teams in that we're just training players for other markets. That can work if you have a steady stream of replacements and that's what we'll have to rely upon.

Hopefully now with all the slotting rules for both the first year player draft and international market that teams like hte Braves can continue to build the right way.

[Hawk]

Given most of Wren's free agent signings, I'd say the team has been anything but thrifty. Wren's been buying what they sell at the dollar store for twice/three times the price.

Thrifty in the sense that they spend their money carefully. But that doesn't mean it isn't there for spending.

Yes, Wren has overpaid, but not exorbitantly relative to market value. The Phillies offered 5/55 for Upton with no-trade and escalation clauses. The Mets reportedly offered 3/36 for Lowe. The Uggla extension had the potential to be decent (and even in its current state isn't exactly blunting us into oblivion.)

Compared to how other teams are spending their money these days, I'm pretty content.

[thewupk]

But why has he been unlucky with BABIP? It's because since they employed the shift on him, it takes away a lot of balls that would be hits. I don't think that's factored in when you look at BABIP.

They have been shifting on Mac far longer then two years. So I don't think that is the reason or it would have been there from the start. Why are players sometimes unlucky? Who knows. It's why it's called luck. **** happens.

[goldfly]

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/goldfly66/6FFD6E64-AC0C-4FC2-ACAF-DDF00D53DBA3-525-0000004D60B89C8A_zpsa1639ff4.jpg

[The Chosen One]

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/goldfly66/6FFD6E64-AC0C-4FC2-ACAF-DDF00D53DBA3-525-0000004D60B89C8A_zpsa1639ff4.jpg

:Gasp:

[Yogi44]

I have no problem with McCann's decision. All of us do what is best for our family, he is no different. If the Braves could not give him the security he felt he needed, then so be it. I am actually glad he chose the Yankees if he was leaving. I still prefer the Yankees in the American League.

[jsebe10]

The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. The NY media and Yankee fan base is extremely fanatical. If Macc goes on his patten month long struggles in NY, they will let him hear it and it will weigh on him. I don't think he's ever been booed in Atl. Hell, the yanks booed jester when he went on his career worse 0-22 a few years ago.

Great choice in not resigning him. People tend to think as a fan first as opposed to economics and talent. Macc leaving will not hurt us as much as you think. Let him get booed for not bunting for a hit when AL teams employ the big shift on him.

[bravesnumberone]

Best of luck to Mac, but **** the Yankees.

And again I say it. This team needs to spend some goddamn money now that Mac and Hudson are off the books.

[Carp]

Good for him. Wish him nothing but the best. Just thought the price was too great for us for an aging, injury prone C when we need to lock down Heyward & Freeman...


LOL if you think he signed with the Yanks for any reason other than the money. He was going to play with the team that gave him the most money. It's all he cared about, hence the reason why him and his agent came out and said they wanted a $100 million contract. I have no respect for him or any other players with that mindset. They don't need the money to make ends meet, they just want to be the highest paid player at their position. It's all about pride and ego with profresional athletes these days.


Only someone sad and jealous would actually believe this. Pretty clear to see the Braves were not interested in re-signing him. If you want to be mad at someone, be bad at ownership. They are willing to give the bum BJ Upton 5/75 as a FA but they aren't willing to give that same contract to a guy that actually deserves it. A guy that has already taken a team friendly deal once before.

[Carp]

Braves had no realistic options in CF that they wanted to utilize (moving Heyward to CF). Braves have two catching options behind Mac and paying 30+ year old catchers is never a goodt hing.

Accept that Mac is not some average catcher. We're talking about a pretty fantastic hitter on a HOF path.

[Tapate50]

Best of luck to Mac, but **** the Yankees.

And again I say it. This team needs to spend some goddamn money now that Mac and Hudson are off the books.
Not a whole lot out there to buy, and we don't have wise spending habits when we do go shopping.

[NYCBrave]

It was a foregone conclusion that Mac had to go to the AL to prolong his career. He hasn't exactly kept himself in the best shape, and injuries were piling up. At the end of his contract, I'm not so sure he'll be a full time catcher anymore, and we didn't have the option to risk that in the NL.

[bravebonebook]

With Hudson vacating, BMac leaving, Heyward's "curious" tweet about BMac's new deal, etc., I guess it will be quite a while until another player's number is retired to the outfield wall. Wonder if I'll even see it happen during the rest of my lifetime?

[NYCBrave]

With Hudson vacating, BMac leaving, Heyward's "curious" tweet about BMac's new deal, etc., I guess it will be quite a while until another player's number is retired to the outfield wall. Wonder if I'll even see it happen during the rest of my lifetime?

Even before the Heyward tweet, there were already rumblings he would not be willing to accept a discounted extension, and was looking to go to free agency.

Our best bet is to try and lock up players like Freeman/Simmons. We should be looking to structure our contracts like the Rays did with Longoria. They have him locked up until he turns 37 and the rates are pretty reasonable.

[clvclv]

I have no problem with McCann's decision. All of us do what is best for our family, he is no different. If the Braves could not give him the security he felt he needed, then so be it. I am actually glad he chose the Yankees if he was leaving. I still prefer the Yankees in the American League.

Agreed. No need to "preach", but Mac deserved the money, and it's not like Wren & Company simply told him to "move on" - the rumors I heard over the weekend all said that they were still talking to B. B. (Abbott) as late as Friday. We have much cheaper "replacements" who are better risks that won't leave us with a huge hole behind the plate moving forward and the organization is simply better off investing those $$$ in other spots.

Anyone that whines about Mac not being a Brave for the next 5 years isn't thinking very clearly - it wasn't that long ago that there were plenty of people screaming about how stupid we were for giving Chipper his last extension with Prado waiting in the wings and that his money would've been better served upgrading other areas and handing the reigns to Martin. As a Chipper fan I didn't like it, but they were right back then and this was the right move now. Tying up $14+ million/year in a guy that will be a drag on payroll for 60 (or more) games every year is simply "bad business" - regardless of who that player is.

[zitothebrave]

Even before the Heyward tweet, there were already rumblings he would not be willing to accept a discounted extension, and was looking to go to free agency.

Our best bet is to try and lock up players like Freeman/Simmons. We should be looking to structure our contracts like the Rays did with Longoria. They have him locked up until he turns 37 and the rates are pretty reasonable.

None of them will take a discount, Mac didn't take a discount, but you can often lock those players down at potential savings by giving them the financial security of a guaranteed contract. Sometimes it works (Longoria, Wright, Mac, Reyes) sometimes it may not (imagine if Francoeur signed?)

This is the year we have to go for Heyward though, if we sign him to an arb2 deal our potential savings almost goes away with any certainty as our risk on our end is then 0.

[thethe]

Its really going to be hard to be a fan (I still will obviously) if Heyward or Freeman aren't locked up within the year. We can't just let all of our great players (non-closers) go and expect to have a chance to ever win a world series.

If you have to overpay then just ****ING do it!

[50PoundHead]

Thrifty in the sense that they spend their money carefully. But that doesn't mean it isn't there for spending.

Yes, Wren has overpaid, but not exorbitantly relative to market value. The Phillies offered 5/55 for Upton with no-trade and escalation clauses. The Mets reportedly offered 3/36 for Lowe. The Uggla extension had the potential to be decent (and even in its current state isn't exactly blunting us into oblivion.)

Compared to how other teams are spending their money these days, I'm pretty content.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. We bid against ourselves with Upton. I was a proponent of trading for a guy like Span (and was largely alone on that). I didn't have that much of a problem with the Lowe deal, but Wren did add an extra year to the Mets' offer, which turned out to be the bigger problem than the annual cost.

And I realize that I was all by myself (with Eric Carmen singing in the background) concerning Uggla. You just don't give a guy with marginal athletic skills that kind of contract. I understood obtaining him as a rental, but I thought the extension was pretty ridiculous. I get that he's a three-outcome guy and those guys can be valuable, but tools still matter. You have to have the requisite physical ability to apply baseball skills and I always thought that Uggla would fall apart. He was sub-.800 OPS in both his Braves' seasons before this past year's debacle, so this year cannot be used as an excuse. He's been trending down since he got to Atlanta. If you're going to be a successful mid-market team, you can't tie yourself down with contracts like the one we doled out to Uggla.

[zitothebrave]

Its really going to be hard to be a fan (I still will obviously) if Heyward or Freeman aren't locked up within the year. We can't just let all of our great players (non-closers) go and expect to have a chance to ever win a world series.

If you have to overpay then just ****ING do it!

There will be no reason not to pony up for those 2. We can afford to keep 2 very expensive players. 3 even with some thrifty use of salary.

[nsacpi]

There will be no reason not to pony up for those 2. We can afford to keep 2 very expensive players. 3 even with some thrifty use of salary.

The thing is we do not know what Heyward and Freeman are asking for. It might be that they are determined to test the free agent market.

[zitothebrave]

The thing is we do not know what Heyward and Freeman are asking for. It might be that they are determined to test the free agent market.

My guess is around 50M total between the 2.

[nsacpi]

My guess is around 50M total between the 2.

Once they get past the arb years 25M/year is not unreasonable for those two. 6M/WAR is the going rate, and they project to be 4+ WAR players.

[thethe]

I don't see how these two can't be signed long term especially considering the new ball park.

[nsacpi]

I don't see how these two can't be signed long term especially considering the new ball park.

We don't know what they are asking for or whether they have decided they want to test the free agent market.

In the case of McCann, we do have information about what he signed for with the Yankees. And most of us would agree the team made the right move not to match that.

[thethe]

IMO there isn't an overpay for either Heyward/Freeman.

[nsacpi]

IMO there isn't an overpay for either Heyward/Freeman.

I would say 40M/year would be an overpay for either player. Not for Mike Trout though.

[zitothebrave]

They won't go that high. I don't see any market breakers hitting FA to bump their value that high.

As it is the there are only 4 contracts in the history of baseball that average over 25 million, A-Rod twice, Verlander and one of Clemens's 1 year deals with Houston. Only 28 players in baseball make 20 million or more annually. The payroll boost will lead to some inflation, but not that much. I highly doubt that Freeman or Heyward get more money than Pujols. I do think they'll sign giant contracts worth probably nearly 200M but it will be very long deals to reach that point.

Jason is great, Freddie is great but I don't think they sign for much over 20 million on average but I think they'll be close to 50 or so towards the end. But you don't know. We have to work on them now though. I'd offer Jason and Freddie both 10/150 deals rightnow. Or 9/140 if they don't bite on the first.

[nsacpi]

They won't go that high. I don't see any market breakers hitting FA to bump their value that high.

As it is the there are only 4 contracts in the history of baseball that average over 25 million, A-Rod twice, Verlander and one of Clemens's 1 year deals with Houston. Only 28 players in baseball make 20 million or more annually. The payroll boost will lead to some inflation, but not that much. I highly doubt that Freeman or Heyward get more money than Pujols. I do think they'll sign giant contracts worth probably nearly 200M but it will be very long deals to reach that point.

Jason is great, Freddie is great but I don't think they sign for much over 20 million on average but I think they'll be close to 50 or so towards the end. But you don't know. We have to work on them now though. I'd offer Jason and Freddie both 10/150 deals rightnow. Or 9/140 if they don't bite on the first.

I think the market would value both 25-30M/year. Closer to 30 for Jason, closer to 25 for Freddie. Trout would break 40 imo.

[zitothebrave]

I think the market would value both 25-30M/year. Closer to 30 for Jason, closer to 25 for Freddie. Trout would break 40 imo.

You're expecting the market to nearly double in that short of a time?

Just so you know there are in baseball's history there are only 46 100million or more contracts. Only 28 contracts with an annual value at 20M or more. 2 of those contracts are repeats with A-Rod and Clemens showing up twice.

That number will for sure go up, but not every player is gonna make an insane amount of money. Trout's only hope to go over 40M is to sign for a short period.

Jason and Freddie will both be 100M+ players and how high depends on length of agreement, only way they make that much is if they only sign for like 5 years.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I think the market would value both 25-30M/year. Closer to 30 for Jason, closer to 25 for Freddie. Trout would break 40 imo.

You are becoming more like Murph3 in your adulation of anyone wearing a Braves uni. Freeie has only bounced the needle as of now and Heyward has tons to prove bofore he will even sniff 20M.

[nsacpi]

Fielder got 24M/year for 9 years.

He hit free agency after his age 27 season. Freeman will hit free agency after his age 26 season.

Fielder hit free agency after the 2011 season. Freeman is scheduled to hit free agency after the 2016 season. Let's say conservatively inflation of 5% per year for player salaries. Inflation alone gets him an extra 25% over Fielder.

So assuming Freeman after age 26 is viewed as identical to Fielder after age 27 he would get 25% more than 24M/year or 30M/year.

Of course he could be viewed as inferior or superior to Fielder. I would lean toward the view that Freeman after age 26 will be viewed as more desirable than Fielder after age 27. But we'll see. It could go either way.

For comparison, WAR numbers for the two by age:

21 Fiedler 0.1 Freeman 0.7
22 Fielder 1.0 Freeman 1.8
23 Fielder 4.6 Freeman 4.8
24 Fielder 1.4 Freeman ?
25 Fielder 6.0 Freeman ?
26 Fielder 2.7 Freeman ?
27 Fielder 4.9 Freeman ?

[zitothebrave]

The feidler contract was universally panned.

[nsacpi]

The feidler contract was universally panned.

So were many others...Werth, Bay, etc. All it takes is one owner or one GM.

[zitothebrave]

Fielder made almost as much as Pujols, do you want to compare those 2?

[nsacpi]

Here's another one to ponder:

If Jayson Werth after his age 31 season (2010) gets 18M year for 7 years, what will Jason Heyward get if he hits free agency after his age 25 season (2015).

[nsacpi]

Fielder made almost as much as Pujols, do you want to compare those 2?

Pujols had just completed his age 31 season.

Teams are aware of the aging curve, which is why Freeman and Heyward will be so attractive as free agents. They will be unusually young for guys hitting free agency. And of course Trout will trump them in all respects.

We made a mistake not sending Heyward down to AAA for a month at the start of the 2010 season. The Rays did it right with Wil Myers this year.

[zitothebrave]

We may not have made the playoffs if they kept Jason down in 2010. Though financially it would have been much better. Same with Freddie.

[clvclv]

Looking at it based on their projected 2014 salaries ($4,900,000 for Freeman and $4,500,000 for Heyward) I wonder if offering each of them something around 8/$90 million NOW would be much of an overpay at all. $11.25 million AAV for their age 24-32 seasons. Roughly the same AAV Mac got for the final year of his deal here, and would be more than double the overall AAV he got when he signed his team-friendly deal. Would take them both through 2021 and leave them with another shot at a Mac-like deal for their final seasons if they remain healthy.

Using Longoria's salary escalations as a template, his salaries were...

2012 - $4.5 million
2013 - $6.0 million
2014 - $7.5 million
2015 - $11.0 million
2016 - $11.5 million
2017 - $13.0 million
2018 - $13.5 million
2019 - $14.5 million

Offer Freeman and Heyward...

$1 million signing bonus

2014 - $5.0 million
2015 - $7.0 million
2016 - $8.5 million
2017 - $12.0 million
2018 - $12.5 million
2019 - $14.0 million
2020 - $14.5 million
2021 - $15.5 million

[nsacpi]

Freeman and Heyward are in slightly different situations due to Heyward being a year ahead.

My guess is Heyward will get $5M and $9M his last two arb years. For his post-arb years I think it is unrealistic to think in terms of anything below $15M AAV and quite possibly unrealistic to think in terms of anything below $20M AAV. Adam Jones for example is averaging $15M for the post arb years of his contract and isn't as good as Heyward, was older at time of signing. Add in inflation and I think it is clear the Adam Jones deal represents an absolute floor on what Heyward should get. In fact if Heyward signs for something like the Adam Jones deal, his agent should probably be sued for malpractice.

For Freeman, my guess is he will make $5M, $8M and $11M for his arb years. As I expressed earlier, I suspect he can expect to do better than Fielder if he hits free agency. If he decides to sign earlier he will obviously take less because of the reduced risk. But like Heyward, $15M/year for the post arb years represents an absolute floor in my opinion.

If we sign them this off-season, I'd say 17-20 M for the post arb years is possible for Heyward and would be a good deal for the club. And I'd say the same thing about 15-17M for Freeman's post arb years. Remember Prado is getting 11M for his post-arb years. Heyward and Freeman are much more valuable than Prado as good a player as he is. They are more valuable than Adam Jones.

I don't think the Longoria comparison is useful because he signed extremely early in his career. He was very far from free agency. So he was gaining more in terms of reduced risk. Heyward and Freeman have already navigated through four and three years of their careers and are now at are now at a much closer point to free agency (which means also less risk of their not getting that big contract). The Longaria comparison is more relevant to someone like Simmons, who is a full five years from free agency.

[clvclv]

Freeman and Heyward are in slightly different situations due to Heyward being a year ahead.

My guess is Heyward will get $5M and $9M his last two arb years. After that I think it is unrealistic to think in terms of anything below $15M AAV and quite possibly unrealistic to think in terms of anything below $20M AAV. Adam Jones for example is averaging $15M for the post arb years of his contract and isn't as good as Heyward, was older at time of signing. Add in inflation and I think it is clear the Adam Jones deal represents an absolute floor on what Heyward should get. In fact if Heyward signs for something like the Adam Jones deal, his agent should probably be sued for malpractice.

For Freeman, my guess is he will make $4M, $7M and $10M for his arb years. As I expressed earlier, I suspect he can expect to do better than Fielder if he hits free agency. If he decides to sign earlier he will obviously take less because of the reduced risk. But like Heyward, $15M/year for the pos arb years represents an absolute floor in my opinion.


I don't disagree - just using Longoria's extension to point out his progression. Would turn into 8/$96 million with the 2017-2021 seasons at $15 million each following that template.

[Heyward]

Not a whole lot out there to buy, and we don't have wise spending habits when we do go shopping.

Was gonna say the same, im not sure what we could spend it on.

Bullpen arm/bench bat, marginal SP upgrade?

[nsacpi]

Wren needs to approach these extensions strategically. He needs to have an idea of the order in which to approach these players. And also what represents a fair deal for each. He should start out with a proposal that is shaded in favor of the club and then go through the players. It is important to do it this way because the first deal will represent a precedent of sorts. Another reason to do it this way is that some of the players may be more willing to trade off full market value for the security of staying in Atlanta. We want to discover which ones are willing to do this if any.

I think by virtue of his being the closest to free agency and also because I think he is a bit of a leader on the team, I would approach Heyward first. Maybe around the time arbitration offers are exchanged. Freeman would be next. If nothing comes of negotiations with those two, I would approach Simmons regarding a long term deal. And if none of those three bite on the first round, I would go to Justin Upton.

Now if all four turn down team-friendly deals, I would not give up. I would start the whole process over with something within the range of market value. And approach the players in the same order, and hopefully sign one of them. I wouldn't necessarily want to sign more than one if it was for something in the market value range.

The other key is how long the deals should be. I would focus less on the length of the deals and more on the ages of the players when the deals expire. I would try to have a one-year option at the end. But I would ideally like the deals to expire at around age 32, plus or minus one year. The idea is to have the players still pretty close to their primes. At those ages, we can still make a qualifying offer and potentially pocket a draft pick at the end of the contract. Also if things go well, we could decide the particular player is an iconic, potentially Hall of Famer type who we would try to keep through the end of his career. I'm not saying that necessarily happens but when a player assumes that kind of status for a franchise then you are usually able to work something out.

[Heyward]

I love Mike Trout but there is no way he's getting 40 million per year.

I know the baseball market is insane right now but he would probably get 25-30, 40 is ridiculous and not happening.

Regards to Heyward/FF, i could see around 15-20 million for both.

[nsacpi]

I love Mike Trout but there is no way he's getting 40 million per year.

I know the baseball market is insane right now but he would probably get 25-30, 40 is ridiculous and not happening.

Regards to Heyward/FF, i could see around 15-20 million for both.

Kershaw is going to get 30 (Greinke just got 24.5 and Kershaw is quite a bit better and younger). Once that happens, it isn't unthinkable for Trout to break 40 once he hits free agency in four years.

[Heyward]

Kershaw is going to get 30 (Greinke just got 24.5 and Kershaw is quite a bit better and younger). Once that happens, it isn't unthinkable for Trout to break 40 once he hits free agency in four years.

You dont think the Angels sign him to an extension by then?

[nsacpi]

You dont think the Angels sign him to an extension by then?

They will certainly try. Takes two to tango as we are finding out with out own players.

[zitothebrave]

They will certainly try. Takes two to tango as we are finding out with out own players.

That's a largely baseless assertion. We just know that they rejected anoffer. It may have been garbage.

[Heyward]

They will certainly try. Takes two to tango as we are finding out with out own players.

For sure, no one knows what they offered, or if they want to be with the Braves long-term.

Or they just want to hit the FA market and fullfill their value.

[Carp]

I think the market would value both 25-30M/year. Closer to 30 for Jason, closer to 25 for Freddie. Trout would break 40 imo.


Don't be ridiculous.

This ?/WAR stats you keep throwing around, where exactly does it come from? Cause I can't find it anywhere. And it doesn't seem to be accurate at all

Michael Bourn has been a consistent 3.5-4 WAR player and posted a 6+ WAR yr in his walk yr. Where is his 20M/yr contract?

[Carp]

Kershaw is going to get 30 (Greinke just got 24.5 and Kershaw is quite a bit better and younger). Once that happens, it isn't unthinkable for Trout to break 40 once he hits free agency in four years.

1. No player has signed a 30 million/yr average contract. Even if Kershaw signs one, that doesn't mean someone else will get it as well. Unless average payrolls increase over 100 million, 30 million per yr contracts won't be discussed.

2. No one is going to give Trout 40 million per. Don't be silly. And you are also assuming Trout to maintain his 9 WAR season average, which isn't likely even for the best of players, especially for a CFer.

[yeezus]

1. No player has signed a 30 million/yr average contract. Even if Kershaw signs one, that doesn't mean someone else will get it as well. Unless average payrolls increase over 100 million, 30 million per yr contracts won't be discussed.

2. No one is going to give Trout 40 million per. Don't be silly. And you are also assuming Trout to maintain his 9 WAR season average, which isn't likely even for the best of players, especially for a CFer.

I agree with you for the most part, except about Trout. He's the best player we've seen in some time and he's super young. He has all the tools to be all-time great and has proven it.

[nsacpi]

1. No player has signed a 30 million/yr average contract. Even if Kershaw signs one, that doesn't mean someone else will get it as well. Unless average payrolls increase over 100 million, 30 million per yr contracts won't be discussed.

2. No one is going to give Trout 40 million per. Don't be silly. And you are also assuming Trout to maintain his 9 WAR season average, which isn't likely even for the best of players, especially for a CFer.

I'm assuming there is some regression on Trout's part to the 7-8 WAR range.

[Dunit24]

I'm assuming there is some regression on Trout's part to the 7-8 WAR range.


What scares me is player salaries are rising through the roof, while our team payroll isnt.

[ChapelHillMatt]

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/brian-mccann-540x469.jpg

[bravebonebook]

Will there ever be another player to suit up just for the Braves for their entire career? I say Chipper will be the last one for a VERY long time if it even ever happens again...Guess they'll be making some new 'In My Own Words' episodes now that Hudson and BMac have exited.

[nsacpi]

Will there ever be another player to suit up just for the Braves for their entire career? I say Chipper will be the last one for a VERY long time if it even ever happens again...Guess they'll be making some new 'In My Own Words' episodes now that Hudson and BMac have exited.

Good chance Phil Gosselin won't play for another major league team.

[Knucksie]

Will there ever be another player to suit up just for the Braves for their entire career? I say Chipper will be the last one for a VERY long time if it even ever happens again...Guess they'll be making some new 'In My Own Words' episodes now that Hudson and BMac have exited.

It's not unique to the Braves. This has been the trend all around baseball. Rivera & Jeter for the Yankees. Helton for the Rockies. Then not many others.

Not sure why Hudson's name is mentioned in a discussion about playing an entire career with one team?

[Gary82]

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/brian-mccann-540x469.jpg

I want to throw up.

[zitothebrave]

It's not unique to the Braves. This has been the trend all around baseball. Rivera & Jeter for the Yankees. Helton for the Rockies. Then not many others.

Not sure why Hudson's name is mentioned in a discussion about playing an entire career with one team?

Well you don't know what will happen with guys late but there are a handful of guys signed to long term deals into their 30s, Utley, Rollins, Howard, Longoria, Pedroia, Zimmerman, Wright, and Mauer could all be one team players. ROllins I think is the least likely but who knows.

[bravebonebook]

Not sure why Hudson's name is mentioned in a discussion about playing an entire career with one team?

Sorry. 2 thoughts merged into 1 post. Meant BMac as the "lifetime Brave". Just also thinking about those guys picked to do the commercials and 'In My Own Words' shows on SportSouth and they always are fan-favorites (i.e. Chipper, Huddy, BMac, Heyward, et al). Now BMac, David Ross, Prado, Hudson, etc. all gone. Was wondering who will be the new "leaders" and "favorites". Not really mad about McCann or Huddy leaving but disappointed.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I want to throw up.

You need to find a pic with no beard.

[Knucksie]

Sorry. 2 thoughts merged into 1 post. Meant BMac as the "lifetime Brave". Just also thinking about those guys picked to do the commercials and 'In My Own Words' shows on SportSouth and they always are fan-favorites (i.e. Chipper, Huddy, BMac, Heyward, et al). Now BMac, David Ross, Prado, Hudson, etc. all gone. Was wondering who will be the new "leaders" and "favorites". Not really mad about McCann or Huddy leaving but disappointed.

No prob. Not what anybody wants to hear, but as thing currently stand, the vet leadership is....Uggla.

[zitothebrave]

No prob. Not what anybody wants to hear, but as thing currently stand, the vet leadership is....Uggla.

I think medlen, freeman and heyward will be shouldering more of a leadership role. Heyward is our longest tenured position player. Medlen is our longest tenured pitcher. One thing though I don't think the leadership issue will be too bad because we have a pretty veteran team. Lots of 2-5 year experience guys. Shouldn't be as reliant on rookies as we were in the past.

[Knucksie]

Well you don't know what will happen with guys late but there are a handful of guys signed to long term deals into their 30s, Utley, Rollins, Howard, Longoria, Pedroia, Zimmerman, Wright, and Mauer could all be one team players. ROllins I think is the least likely but who knows.

No question, but there's a varying level of quality among that group of names, too.

Utley was totally elite for those years, but are we going to witness a big send-off, if he announces his retirement a year in advance? Same for the other Phillies players. Wright is certainly on the way to a HOF career, but fans/writers aren't going to hold him with the lack of post-season appearances. Zimmerman's right behind him. Can see TB wanting to keep Longoria as "face of franchise," but considering the team-friendly deal he signed, who'd blame him if he wanted to explore FA after the deal expires?

Anyway...even if all them meet the profile, we all realize that it is not typical for superstars to stay with the team that drafted him through an entire career anymore. Sports Weekly had a nice article, over the summer, mentioning Chipper about another issue. Players don't have catchy nicknames anymore either.

[nsacpi]

I think medlen, freeman and heyward will be shouldering more of a leadership role. Heyward is our longest tenured position player. Medlen is our longest tenured pitcher. One thing though I don't think the leadership issue will be too bad because we have a pretty veteran team. Lots of 2-5 year experience guys. Shouldn't be as reliant on rookies as we were in the past.

Those three have already stepped up to show leadership. Freddie in the hugs department. Medlen in the staying hydrated department. And Heyward in the playing with a broken jaw department.