Iran

[The Chosen One]

USA, Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia struck a deal with Iran on their nuclear program, to lift sanctions.

Great progress, great diplomacy.

Of course, Israel is not happy about it at all. They wouldn't be happy with any agreement or solution anyways. They have as many nukes as anyone not named USA or USSR. They could nuke every major city in the middle east more than once, what exactly are they afraid of?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/23/world/meast/iran-nuclear-talks-geneva/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Gary82]

yay.

[BedellBrave]

USA, Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia struck a deal with Iran on their nuclear program, to lift sanctions.

Great progress, great diplomacy.

Of course, Israel is not happy about it at all. They wouldn't be happy with any agreement or solution anyways. They have as many nukes as anyone not named USA or USSR. They could nuke every major city in the middle east more than once, what exactly are they afraid of?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/23/world/meast/iran-nuclear-talks-geneva/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


What do you think Sav? Think about it. Whether we agree with it or not there is a reason why they are so concerned.

[Gary82]

It's a step in the right direction. A baby step.

[goldfly]

great news


i really don't care what Israel wants to cry about

[thethe]

Diplomacy should always be the first course of action. For that I am happy.

I understand why Israel is mad but they need to give this a chance and see how it plays out. War is not good for anyone.

[sturg33]

Great news

[AerchAngel]

great news


i really don't care what Israel wants to cry about

You better hope and pray that Iran keep a tight reign on Hezbollah or the other twenty subfactions being a thorn in Israel side, because any major infraction that cause harm to Israel, Teheran would be the first city they nuke.

They can cry all they want, I agree, but don't stir the bee hive.

[AerchAngel]

USA, Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia struck a deal with Iran on their nuclear program, to lift sanctions.

Great progress, great diplomacy.

Of course, Israel is not happy about it at all. They wouldn't be happy with any agreement or solution anyways. They have as many nukes as anyone not named USA or USSR. They could nuke every major city in the middle east more than once, what exactly are they afraid of?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/23/world/meast/iran-nuclear-talks-geneva/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Some idiot subfaction detonating a dirty bomb or chemical weapons on their soil and the country with the most chemical weapons is Iran.

Oh, forgot to add this.....Muslim FANATICS are not the brightest tools in the shed.

[thethe]

Thats what I think people gloss over too quickly. Iran will never directly attack another nation. They fight their proxy wars and the whole world has to hope that they don't give nuclear material to these groups.

[AerchAngel]

Thats what I think people gloss over too quickly. Iran will never directly attack another nation. They fight their proxy wars and the whole world has to hope that they don't give nuclear material to these groups.


This is why Israel is afraid. They really don't want to use their nukes, but they can't trust the Iranian government to keep a leash on their dog soldiers. I have no doubt if Iran distance themselves from these dreads of society, I think they can get along.

[Oklahomahawk]

This is why Israel is afraid. They really don't want to use their nukes, but they can't trust the Iranian government to keep a leash on their dog soldiers. I have no doubt if Iran distance themselves from these dreads of society, I think they can get along.

Eh, I think it's basically Shakespearian if you get right down to it (much ado about nothing) Iran still can't be trusted, never could never will be able to, a few more UN inspectors might be able to slow down the weapons grade stuff a little bit, of course since Kim Jong Il killed off Hans Blix in Team America I don't know the lead inspector will be, probably somebody with a big name, but either incompetent or on the take or both. I understand Israel's trepidation, but I don't really see how this makes that much of a difference, some day it will happen and we all know how Israel will reply, this may put that off a bit but probably not for all that long.

More much ado about nothing, the conservative ministries of propaganda are already lining up blasting it as a bad idea and the end of the world, and so on, but can anyone here REALLY deny that if Bush/Cheney had made the same exact agreement they'd be trying to get President Cheney one of those Nobel Peace prizes??? Since the Dems did it, it either isn't really that big of a deal (like when we FINALLY got Bin Laden) or it's the Munich Agreement like selling out of a friend. On the left, they've probably already got Obama's name on his next Nobel Prize (I hear Dire Straits warming up in the background). And you can bet all the conservatives will be lock-step blasting it most likely with "original thoughts" that if you were to copy/paste them into a google search engine you could trace back to redstate.com or Fox or some other "we just report the facts you can make up your own minds, ROTFLMMAO" type of site. HuffPo and Kos are probably building Obama a statue even now with his teleprompter with gold braid closeby and his middle finger extended towards the right side of the aisle.

Honestly folks, tell me what REALLY changes at all because of this agreement (and please not left or right wing talking points)???

Oh and AA, WTF is going on, you get a tornado up there last week and we're expecting an ice storm down here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously WTF???????????????????????

[50PoundHead]

It's a step in the right direction. A baby step.

+1.

[BedellBrave]

I think we all need to be careful not to be overly simplistic about this. Israel isn't alone in its concerns, be they legitimate or illegitimate. That's how it will be spun, but it is spin. Many Sunni Muslim Arabs aren't wild about this either. I remember a vivid conversation with a Palestinian in the West Bank, who, while no friend of the Israelis, feared and despised the Persians more. Hearing that for the first time made me realize things aren't as black and white as we like to make them here.

Maybe this is a step in the right direction. We will see.

But I actually think this isn't the biggest story going on with Iran. I keep hearing reports (and actually spent some time recently with some Iranian refugees) that something is a stir within Iran. If war can be averted for a few more years I think we'll be talking about a different political context within Iran. At least I hope that's the case.

[AerchAngel]

The western influencing of their younger generation is getting some steam. They really want to be like Europe, like America.

If so, a great sign to get rid of that Muslim stigma and/or depravity of rights.

[thethe]

The western influencing of their younger generation is getting some steam. They really want to be like Europe, like America.

If so, a great sign to get rid of that Muslim stigma and/or depravity of rights.

The old guard will get violent before they allow their power to fade. Thats the next danger in the near future.

[50PoundHead]

I think we all need to be careful not to be overly simplistic about this. Israel isn't alone in its concerns, be they legitimate or illegitimate. That's how it will be spun, but it is spin. Many Sunni Muslim Arabs aren't wild about this either. I remember a vivid conversation with a Palestinian in the West Bank, who, while no friend of the Israelis, feared and despised the Persians more. Hearing that for the first time made me realize things aren't as black and white as we like to make them here.

Maybe this is a step in the right direction. We will see.

But I actually think this isn't the biggest story going on with Iran. I keep hearing reports (and actually spent some time recently with some Iranian refugees) that something is a stir within Iran. If war can be averted for a few more years I think we'll be talking about a different political context within Iran. At least I hope that's the case.

Good food for thought. My guess is the talking heads and pols from the various viewpoints will be all over each other on the "above the surface" story but that the real story may be what you have written in your post.

This next comment may come across as anti-Israel, but I think it's more in how I interpret the realpolitik that Israel has employed over the last couple of decades in triangulating the situation in the Middle East to their advantage. If everyone starts behaving (which is probably a long ways off), they do lose leverage.

People tend to forget that the last truly democratically-elected secular government in Iran was in the early-1950s, when democratic socialist Mohammed Mossadegh was Prime Minister. Of course, he talked about socializing the oil fields, which led to a coup instigated by the CIA and MI-6 that installed the Shah. The muscles of self-government have likely atrophied after several generations and it will take awhile for the populace to build them up to the point where a secular government can once again reign effectively. But I agree that for all of the barking about the demise of liberal democracy as a guiding doctrine, there is still a thirst for it in the Mideast and elsewhere. Hopefully, we will stand back and let the people of Iran build their country when that becomes possible.

[AerchAngel]

THis is a fascinating subject,

but I am done on this board.

Thanks for all the great conversations.

[Gary82]

The western influencing of their younger generation is getting some steam. They really want to be like Europe, like America.

If so, a great sign to get rid of that Muslim stigma and/or depravity of rights.

This is a major reason why I'm against military action against Iran. Well, one of many reasons.

[Hawk]

Some **** never changes.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/901/3387174001054dfb94dfo.jpg

[Oklahomahawk]

Some **** never changes.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/901/3387174001054dfb94dfo.jpg

I'm so ronery, so ronery, so ronery and sadry arone...........

[The Chosen One]

Some **** never changes.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/901/3387174001054dfb94dfo.jpg

In fairness, the Iranian youth have access to connect to everyone around the world via internet. In North Korea, people have no idea what goes on outside their own borders. Their system of information and traffic literally is in the stoneage. I mean I think when North Korea played in the World Cup a few years ago there were radio stations from the state telling the people North Korea dominated the competition.

Just watch the interviews with North Korean escapees, like the guy on 60 minutes. The first time he'd ever seen the technological stuff we take for granted everyday.

[Krgrecw]

Obama dropped the ball but not helping the people overthrow the gov't of Iran when they rose up a few years back. If that would had happened; Iraq would be a safer country, Assad would be long gone, Putin would have less power, the Middle East as a whole would be safer and better.

The people of Iran are the most pro-america out of any country in the Middle East excluding Israel. You control Iran, you basically control the Middle East. The Saudis don't want no drama, they'd be all for a regime change in Iran

[goldfly]

Obama dropped the ball but not helping the people overthrow the gov't of Iran when they rose up a few years back. If that would had happened; Iraq would be a safer country, Assad would be long gone, Putin would have less power, the Middle East as a whole would be safer and better.

The people of Iran are the most pro-america out of any country in the Middle East excluding Israel. You control Iran, you basically control the Middle East. The Saudis don't want no drama, they'd be all for a regime change in Iran


:sigh

since it is obvious you have thought about this

and have 20/20 vision on this event, what should he have done to help the people of Iran overthrow the gov't?

[50PoundHead]

Obama dropped the ball but not helping the people overthrow the gov't of Iran when they rose up a few years back. If that would had happened; Iraq would be a safer country, Assad would be long gone, Putin would have less power, the Middle East as a whole would be safer and better.

The people of Iran are the most pro-america out of any country in the Middle East excluding Israel. You control Iran, you basically control the Middle East. The Saudis don't want no drama, they'd be all for a regime change in Iran

I'm with goldfly. Cant prove the negative, but the converse of everything you contend may have happened instead. And, if a coup had failed, good luck trying to get any change ever.

[weso1]

I will be shocked if this has any real long term impact. This to me smells of a political play by the president to take some heat off of the Obamacare disaster. In the president's defense he really doesn't have a strong hand here. Clearly we don't need to get involved in another war. What would this mess be like if Iraq was still a major player I wonder?

[50PoundHead]

I agree it's a work-in-progress and it's likely going to involve more action on the part of Iran that they are willing to undertake. As cynical as I am, I don't see this as purposeful deflection from the healthcare fiasco. There's just been too much going on internationally on this front for me to believe that. In fact, this is no big political boon to the Democrats, as the Israel lobby is going to be all over this in the opposite direction.