Can we/should we allow Hamels to get away?

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06-30-2018, 09:31 AM
Oklahomabrave

If we get anyone as a SP they need to be better and younger than Hamels. I like Kela for the BP though.
06-30-2018, 09:48 AM
thewupk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oklahomabrave

If we get anyone as a SP they need to be better and younger than Hamels. I like Kela for the BP though.

Don't think the Braves need to go all in on a good, young, and controllable starter. These are the players the Braves need to develop internally after we've spent so many resources acquiring pitching prospects. Pitchers like Hamels, McCarthy, and now Julio are the types they need to acquire to fill out the back end of the rotation if they truly need someone. Personally I feel Hamels will cost too much because of his past but if the cost is reasonable it's not a bad move to shore out the rotation with pitchers going on the DL/needing rest. For better or worse the Braves will go as far as Folty/Newk take them this year.
06-30-2018, 09:48 AM
zitothebrave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oklahomabrave

If we get anyone as a SP they need to be better and younger than Hamels. I like Kela for the BP though.

Guys who're better and younger than Hamels tend to cost a whole lot.

Only one probably on the market better and younger than Hamels who won't cost a Teixeira haul is Archer who still probably will cost more than we'd want to give up.
06-30-2018, 09:56 AM
Carp

Zach Wheeler may be available and shouldn't cost as much as most of the other controllable younger arms out there.
06-30-2018, 10:33 AM
BeanieAntics

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfect Cell

Im all for trading for upgrades this year. Front office needs to make the most of it. We may not be this good in 2019.....

but Cole Hammels? Ehhh

I hate these lines of reasoning. Is it possible that we are worse in 2019? Sure its a possibility. But by any reasonable projection we should definitely be an improved team next year. More of the farm guys are coming up, the rookies will have a year under their belt, we have money to spend in the offseason. Its pretty likely that we improve next year. If you want to make a win now deal, there are some valid arguments for that. But doing it because there is a chance we regress in 2019 is a poor one imo
06-30-2018, 10:35 AM
GeorgiaGirl

I'll happily let a guy that has poor peripherals go even if he has a previous history.

Unless, you think somehow, the Rangers' home field is affecting his peripherals.
06-30-2018, 01:54 PM
depley

I am all for improving the team, but starting pitching in the name of Hamels is not one of them I would vote for. There are maybe 5 , 6 guys I would trade for and the likely hood of those guys being available is slim. I would trade for deGrom, Kershaw, Bumgarner, Kluber, Syndergaard, and maybe Lester, but outside of those not many worth giving up from our strength for.
Yes we could use bullpen help, and bench help in terms of someone with power. I do not see any reason to trade for a 3B at this point as I do not see anyone being a difference maker over Camargo for 1/2 a season. I am pretty much OK with seeing where we end up with what we have in the minors for this and next year. I have always said the real year for this team to breakout will be 2020, anything before then is just gravy.
06-30-2018, 01:54 PM
zbhargrove

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico43

Sometimes our job here is to promote discussion, and Hamel is only two years removed from have a 22-6 year-and-a-half with the Rangers with a 3.40 ERA. Considering the sorry team around him, a 4-6 record is no gauge, but his 3.61 is by far the best among their cruddy rotation.

As for what we deal for him, it should be something like Sims, Tyler Pike and Encarnacion. Maybe beg them to take Hursh.

***
Another factor, one which I should have mentioned up front, only twice in his last 13 starts has he gone less than six innings. In each of those, he went five. He's gone at least seven innings in four of his last seven starts, and has lost only twice since April 24 (10 starts).

No one here is using his ERA or WL record to evaluate his performance. His peripherals are terrible and you said he was in his prime which is beyond laughable. He's not an upgrade... period. I guess if it's "your job" to promote discussion, discuss someone worth it.
06-30-2018, 03:25 PM
rico43

Quote:

Originally Posted by depley

I am all for improving the team, but starting pitching in the name of Hamels is not one of them I would vote for. There are maybe 5 , 6 guys I would trade for and the likely hood of those guys being available is slim. I would trade for deGrom, Kershaw, Bumgarner, Kluber, Syndergaard, and maybe Lester, but outside of those not many worth giving up from our strength for.
Yes we could use bullpen help, and bench help in terms of someone with power. I do not see any reason to trade for a 3B at this point as I do not see anyone being a difference maker over Camargo for 1/2 a season. I am pretty much OK with seeing where we end up with what we have in the minors for this and next year. I have always said the real year for this team to breakout will be 2020, anything before then is just gravy.

The idea is to not give up from our strength. A player like Hamels would not require anyone in our top 20 prospects at this stage, because our 21-30 are equal to other teams 10-15s. Those who are deriding my proposal seem to think we'd actually feel the sting from what we give up. There's no chance we deal those guys until the deadline, if then. This is a quick, easy upgrade.
06-30-2018, 03:28 PM
PurpleBrave

We can sit idle and miss the playoffs. Not saying we should give up the house, but we should do something
06-30-2018, 03:32 PM
rico43

Quote:

Originally Posted by zbhargrove

No one here is using his ERA or WL record to evaluate his performance. His peripherals are terrible and you said he was in his prime which is beyond laughable. He's not an upgrade... period. I guess if it's "your job" to promote discussion, discuss someone worth it.

I'm a little old, so help me see your point of view by quoting the peripherals that make him a decisive no in your mind.

I think this promoted discussion pretty darn well, by the way. Someone "worth it" though ... okay.

Wheeler is showing increased velocity in recent starts and is controllable through 2019 and is a local guy. If the velocity reports are right, I'm down with that. We have dealt with the Mets before without having the intra-division thing bite us too badly. The report in the NY Daily News yesterday that caught my eyes is the Mets are "listening" to offers for DeGrom and Syndergaard as well. I cannot imagine what kind of haul either of them would require. Wonder how close a Swanson-Pache-Anderson package would be to what they require.
06-30-2018, 03:45 PM
bravesguy

Who would be your SS if you trade Swanson (this year and next)?
06-30-2018, 04:13 PM
rico43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravesguy

Who would be your SS if you trade Swanson (this year and next)?

Camargo, absolutely. And of course Machado playing third next to him! In for a penny, in for a pound.
06-30-2018, 04:23 PM
jpx7

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico43

Sometimes our job here is to promote discussion, and Hamel is only two years removed from have a 22-6 year-and-a-half with the Rangers with a 3.40 ERA. Considering the sorry team around him, a 4-6 record is no gauge, but his 3.61 is by far the best among their cruddy rotation.

As for what we deal for him, it should be something like Sims, Tyler Pike and Encarnacion. Maybe beg them to take Hursh.

***
Another factor, one which I should have mentioned up front, only twice in his last 13 starts has he gone less than six innings. In each of those, he went five. He's gone at least seven innings in four of his last seven starts, and has lost only twice since April 24 (10 starts).

JCE would obviously be the centrepiece of that deal, and he’s actually one of the Braves’ legit prospects I wouldn’t be up-in-arms about unloading this deadline, because—while he’s got tools, and plenty of time to refine them—I’m skeptical he’ll ever be good enough defensively to stick at third, and I’m bearish he’ll ultimately produce enough offensively to be a viable starter at first. Still, he’s athletic and projectable and hitting well in A-ball, which could make him a solid trade chip.

But for Hamels? I just don’t think the latter is enough of an upgrade to merit including Encarnacion.
06-30-2018, 05:46 PM
zbhargrove

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico43

I'm a little old, so help me see your point of view by quoting the peripherals that make him a decisive no in your mind.

I think this promoted discussion pretty darn well, by the way. Someone "worth it" though ... okay.

Wheeler is showing increased velocity in recent starts and is controllable through 2019 and is a local guy. If the velocity reports are right, I'm down with that. We have dealt with the Mets before without having the intra-division thing bite us too badly. The report in the NY Daily News yesterday that caught my eyes is the Mets are "listening" to offers for DeGrom and Syndergaard as well. I cannot imagine what kind of haul either of them would require. Wonder how close a Swanson-Pache-Anderson package would be to what they require.

Bad FIP bad xFIP awful HR/9
06-30-2018, 05:48 PM
depley

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico43

Camargo, absolutely. And of course Machado playing third next to him! In for a penny, in for a pound.

really, Camargo is a terrible SS, he has little to no range. You would be giving up way to much defense.
06-30-2018, 06:09 PM
chopdrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by zitothebrave

Hamels is a good pitcher still.

Not a star at all but it we could convince Texas to swap Hamels for Julio, that could be a huge net win for us. Give them a projectable fringe arm or 2. Or a safe but not great arm. I would want Hamels in the post season. A lefty who can still throw 92 who before going to Texas had one of the best changeups in the game. If we had a competent pitching coach he could even have a Verlanderesque rebound for us.

Why in the world would we trade pitching off this team?
06-30-2018, 06:47 PM
rico43

Quote:

Originally Posted by depley

really, Camargo is a terrible SS, he has little to no range. You would be giving up way to much defense.

I really am open to discussion about this, but "way too much"? He has shown since he was a rookie in spring training he has the best infield arm on the team.

Range factor: Looking at Baseball reference, Swanson's is 3.95 in 244 games at short with 31 errors. Camargo's is 3.68 in 42 games at shortstop with two errors.

I can live with those differences.
06-30-2018, 08:36 PM
Skeeter31

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico43

I'm a little old, so help me see your point of view by quoting the peripherals that make him a decisive no in your mind.

I think this promoted discussion pretty darn well, by the way. Someone "worth it" though ... okay.

Wheeler is showing increased velocity in recent starts and is controllable through 2019 and is a local guy. If the velocity reports are right, I'm down with that. We have dealt with the Mets before without having the intra-division thing bite us too badly. The report in the NY Daily News yesterday that caught my eyes is the Mets are "listening" to offers for DeGrom and Syndergaard as well. I cannot imagine what kind of haul either of them would require. Wonder how close a Swanson-Pache-Anderson package would be to what they require.

A deal for Thor or DeGrom would start with either Albies or Acuna. One of them would have to be in the deal and it would still take too many prospects with them.
Trying to take them out of the deal would make the amount of prospects dealt way too costly for the system.
Both of those pitchers aren’t 1 year rentals. They each have years of control and are legitimate #1 starters. They will command a kings ransom that we just can’t afford.
06-30-2018, 08:42 PM
Southcack77

Quote:

Originally Posted by zbhargrove

Bad FIP bad xFIP awful HR/9

His xFIP is dead average.

His HR rate is the best reason to suspect that he'll have a better second half because it is well above his career norms.

His other peripherals are essentially consistent with what he put up in 2016.

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