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I'm a big fan of having 2 outfielders with center fielder type range.
But when you get to 3 the marginal benefit from the extra range falls off.
In a couple years, we are a looking at a potential outfield of Acuna, Pache and Waters.
I think it would make sense to trade one of Pache or Waters over the next year or so if they both remain on a good developmental track. Not trade them just for the sake of trading them. It should go without saying we want good value in return.
I don't disagree, but with Pache playing center in that scenario, Acuna or Waters wouldn't be playing the corners based on defense alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by nsacpi
Waters has really hit. I remember when he was drafted, most expected him to fill out and add weight, which would bring the power more into games. I still think that's what happens. His dad was an OL at Georgia Tech, and his frame looks like it can add weight and hit for power. I still think he profiles as a future corner OF, especially in an outfield with Pache.
yeah, i wouldn't assume waters will be a CF. he could definitely hit well enough for a corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ9
I think the theory is along the same lines as idea of trading Albies because he’s more valuable as a SS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super
This is the main reason I assume AA chose not to upgrade corner OF this winter - although if he'd have known that two years would've been long enough to land Brantley I think it was a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ9
Everyone has opinions and guesses, and mine is that Riley, Pache, Waters, and Contreras are the prospects that are "off-limits" - not the arms. Pache is as close to ready that he can conceivably be called on anytime after the break, even if that's rushing things a little. Ideally everybody stays healthy this year and his power develops a little more in the minors, and he forces you to make a decision on Ender and/or Markakis next winter. Like it or not, we all saw the scout's quote that Waters may very well come as fast as Acuna did if they allow it. That's 2021. If they weren't at least somewhat willing to let Pache and Waters' performance dictate their arrival times, they'd have gotten someone better than Markakis - even if that meant a trade. As things stand, Camargo can be his platoon partner this year and you pay him to go away next winter if he doesn't want to be a pinch-hitter.
Healthy 2019 or no, I don't think they want any part of a 3 year deal for Donaldson - that's exactly why they jumped so quickly when they got the feeling he'd take the one year this past winter. Someone mentioned the other day that Riley's "not ready", and that's simply not true. He's now up to .271/.340/.438/.777 with the highest number of ABs of anyone in camp. He's always been a bit of a slow starter, and is being asked to play two new positions on the fly. Put him at 3B and leave him alone, and the numbers will continue to get better. Send him to Gwinnett and tell him to improve certain things and it's his job the minute Donaldson gets hurt or next year - whichever comes first. If you want to delay that until next spring and Donaldson goes down, Johan can go back to 3B for the rest of 2019 and you trade for an inexpensive 4th OF when someone falls out of the race or pick one up off the scrap heap. Maybe you don't find one to replace Duvall right away - but as someone mentioned yesterday - Opening Day doesn't represent a trade deadline.
Flow's two year deal makes all that much more sense when you consider Contreras. If A-Jax doesn't prove capable of splitting time with him in 2020, you go find another inexpensive vet - Avila, Castillo, Cervelli, Lucroy, and Maldonado will all be available, and Contreras should be ready for significant time when 2021 starts.
With Cole, Verlander, Wheeler, and Bumgarner all likely to be available, next winter may be the time to spend big on a free-agent starter if there's going to be one.
Someone being able to play center and being a center fielder are two different things. I haven't seen enough of Waters to have an opinion, but I would say Acuna is more a corner outfielder. The question would be if Pache was ready while we still have Inciarte. I think they might both be in the same outfield for probably one season, but I doubt they would be out there together long term.
It depends on the development of their offense. If Acuna is a .900+ OPS guy hitting 35-40 HR and Pache is a CF with Inciarte level offense, then you need Waters to be an .800+ OPS guy with 25-30 HR power. Otherwise you're offense is short on scoring capability UNLESS you have All-Stars all around the infield.Quote:
Originally Posted by nsacpi
What if said all-stars are average hitters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsehide Harry
That’s what I think. Waters isn’t some kind of defensive wonder. Acuna is a really good center fielder , but isn’t some unreal center fielder.Quote:
Originally Posted by thewupk
Acuna and Waters in the corner isn’t that crazy and Pache is a given in center field.
Exactly Why does everyone believe you need multiple All-Stars to make an offense work?Quote:
Originally Posted by thewupk
Even with Waters on a corner, you'd still have Freeman, Acuna, and Albies as offensive terrors, better production than you got last year from Markakis, average or better production from your catching tandem, Riley providing 25+ bombs even if he's not a .900 OPS monster, and above-average production from your first bench bat and super-sub in Camargo. If Dansby advances even a little bit, that's a better offensive team than the one that won the division last year.
If Pache, Waters, and Contreras' bats develop even close to what is hoped for at this point, that's more than enough offense to win several division titles.
Really hard to get behind not shaking things up after all the talk about money available and potential trades at the beginning of the winter, but now that the surplus of arms is beginning to dwindle, keep them all for depth and go to a full-time 6-man rotation, make some of them pen pieces, and splurge on a short-term deal for a veteran to help at the top of the rotation.
Psyche is still very young and hasn’t hit above 740 ops in the minors. He could grow into his power at any time but he may not. He has to walk.
Waters is still very young too.
Most people aren’t acuna. 20-21 year old position prospects isn’t the norm.
They picked jenista last year. To pick this year might be a college of.
I really look forward to following waters and Pache this year. But I still think mid of next season is the absolute earliest.
You know what I meant. You need a certain amount of offense to be a good team. It's highly, highly unlikely, in today's game, that a team can "defense" it's way to a pennant without an offense to go with it. That offense has to come from somewhere. An Acuna, Pache, Waters outfield works IF 2/3 at least are significant contributors to the offense. Others talk about "we'll have Freeman, we'll have Albies" without considering timelines and performance. An Acuna, Pache, Waters outfield is probably two years away at which time Freeman will be approaching 32 and FA. Albies MAY turn into an offensive juggernaut but is coming off an uneven rookie year with concerns about his ability to maintain his pop while raising his average.Quote:
Originally Posted by thewupk
You know as well as I do that there are many ways to have a good team. Hitting is one component albeit an important one. Last year the Braves were slightly above average in that category. But they were excellent on the bases and fielding the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsehide Harry
You can be an average offensive team and still win if you are very good elsewhere.
Acuna might be more than good
Berry goodQuote:
Originally Posted by thethe
There's a difference in what is possible and what is likely. I try never to play long shot odds unless I have no other choice. Setting out and planning to play long shot odds isn't a good recipe for long term success, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by thewupk
Water strikes me as having Adam Eaton type up upside. That certainly plays just fine in a corner.
If the OF ends up being pre-roids Bonds, Pillar and Eaton, with a declining Inciarte on the bench, the Braves will be just fine.
Of course, that’s the Braves homer projection for the OF, but it’s plausible.
Ender's probably moved by then. But i think Waters projects fine as a corner outfielder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enscheff
You get the best players as possible regardless of how they do it. If waters and pache are 3 war guys then they will play just fine regardless of what combination it comes in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsehide Harry
So only waters has to live up to that potential then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Enscheff