Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

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Originally Posted by COGPK

He never lived up to what we thought we had.

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For some. The rest of us certainly understand how good of a player he's been for us.

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Originally Posted by thethe

Braves can go absoultely crazy and just get Walker and one of their top positional prospects (gabriel guerrero). That would be pretty sick.

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I mysteriously mentioned this exact deal elsewhere, but who's keeping score? Upton for Walker and Guerrero or Gallo and Williams and spend the $50-$60 million on other holes before 2017 and what does the organization look like?

Jason will have the chance to put his money where his mouth is thus time next year.

Some people need to simmer down. I realize many here don't like the deal. I'm disappointed to see Heyward gone to the Cardinals too. But, that's the business of baseball guys. Just get yourselves ready, because as I said earlier, this won't be the last deal. I can see at least another one or two before things are all said and done. Also, there is no reason to automatically punt the 2015 season. For the main reason as to the fact we don't know what the team will look like. Let's see what team we have before we throw our arms up in the air and give up. It's a long time until February.

I know I'm going to get some smart aleck remarks, but oh well. I haven't contributed much in this thread because a great number of individuals can't have a debate without letting their anger take over their senses. It's one thing to be disappointed, but it's another to use that anger to act like a jerk. I know it's not everyone, but there is enough who rather jump all over people who think they are wrong that makes a civil debate almost impossible.

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Originally Posted by yeezus

"Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria tells Manny Navarro of the Miami Herald that he plans to surround Stanton with an improved lineup and can afford to go out and add a bat to hit behind him this offseason."

Womp.
On the bright side, if we had Reuben Amaro at the helm, we'd have traded Heyward for Bartolo Colon and a C-level prospect.

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A better comp than you want it to be. Exactly who would we be able to trade to help this offense IF we'd have kept Heyward?

Maybe it's just me, but I haven't read many articles where I've seen anyone was interested in Lucas Sims, Jason Hursh, J. R. Graham, Mauricio Cabrera, or David Hale. (Those are the 5 guys left from BA's Braves' 2014 Top 10.) If you wouldn't trade Peraza, exactly WHO would you trade to help the offense IF you thought you could contend with what we have???

Our system sucks, and if you can't see that no one can help you.

we'll see if heyward ever learns how to hit off of lefties

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Originally Posted by CrimsonCowboy

Some people need to simmer down. I realize many here don't like the deal. I'm disappointed to see Heyward gone to the Cardinals too. But, that's the business of baseball guys. Just get yourselves ready, because as I said earlier, this won't be the last deal. I can see at least another one or two before things are all said and done. Also, there is no reason to automatically punt the 2015 season. For the main reason as to the fact we don't know what the team will look like. Let's see what team we have before we throw our arms up in the air and give up. It's a long time until February.

I know I'm going to get some smart aleck remarks, but oh well. I haven't contributed much in this thread because a great number of individuals can't have a debate without letting their anger take over their senses. It's one thing to be disappointed, but it's another to use that anger to act like a jerk. I know it's not everyone, but there is enough who rather jump all over people who think they are wrong that makes a civil debate almost impossible.

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Give it a few weeks until they've come back to their senses. The "fan mindset " is kind of in effect right now. I see it much like a few others on here do...Get something for him, not nothing...I'll miss the kid but this is the ugly business side of baseball that we go through every year, unfortunately. Go Braves.

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Originally Posted by yeezus

Griffey Jr became more like Justin. Jason is pretty damn lanky IMO.

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Ken Griffey NEVER "became" more like Justin. He isn't as big as either today and he hasn't played in years.

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Originally Posted by jpx7

The latter is actually less likely than the former, in this absurd case.

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Lol you don't really believe this do you? You're supposed to be one of the more level headed posters on the board.

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Originally Posted by CyYoung31

Well, you just lost any credibility you may have had with that remark. Congratulations.

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I'm crushed. Since there are so many more people around here that deserve credibility when they know what they know.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonCowboy

I know it's not everyone, but there is enough who rather jump all over people who think they are wrong that makes a civil debate almost impossible.

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To be fair: that's been the case for posters on both sides of the ledger.

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Originally Posted by Carp

Lol you don't really believe this do you? You're supposed to be one of the more level headed posters on the board.

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I'm definitely not arguing race had anything to do with it (as you sardonicallly alluded in your previous post), but I do believe the Braves front-office undervalued Jason Heyward, and I likewise feel John Hart did not do his due-diligence in exploring extenting Heyward. But, as I've said—both in response to this trade, and well before it—I don't have a lot of faith in John Hart as the visionary of the franchise going forward.

I will accept your compliment, however, as regards what I am supposed to be on the board.

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Originally Posted by jpx7

To be fair: that's been the case for posters on both sides of the ledger.

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I agree. Absolutely

Heyward said the 10 minute long-term extension discussion was in November or December of 2012 and the subject was never again revisited. The two year arbitration buyout was agreed during 2014 ST. Does that timeline make any sense? Especially when Hart seems to indicate about the 2014 ST negotiations (in annoyingly vague terms I guess) that the team wouldn't be able to come to a long-term agreement. I doubt that conclusion was reached solely upon the radio silence Heyward seems to indicate.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that Heyward's lying. All of the quotes he's given are that the team didn't come to him or the team never sat down with him and his agent. None of them say that there was no contact with only his agent gauging interest between 2012 and 2014. If you take his words literally, he was not an immediate party to any long-term contract discussions after 2012. Nothing is said one way or another about feelers being sent to his agent, which ramadon has claimed occurred, and which reason dictates would have had to occur. Depending on how informal and/or unproductive those discussions were, Heyward may not have even been made aware of them.

Even if Heyward were aware of agent contact, as long as the Braves didn't set up a meeting with he and his agent (and I'm sure they didn't, likely because they weren't close on a deal and it would have been pointless), his words, taken literally, are consistent. It also isn't inconsistent for Jason to have wanted a meeting, to have been unwilling to settle for whatever the Braves would have offered in said meeting, and to feel disrespected by the fact that no meetings occurred even though they would have led to nothing.

Another thing. "I wanted to stay..." Ellipsis. Finish the sentence. I wanted to stay... for the right terms. Doesn't say anything about a hometown discount, or about needing to have the highest bid. It has no meaningful context. But it sounds nice.

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Originally Posted by jsebe10

but this is the ugly business side of baseball that we go through every year, unfortunately.

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http://ww2gravestone.com/sites/defau...hamberlain.jpg

There is a difference between being a fan and being a complete lemming.

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Originally Posted by clvclv

I'm crushed. Since there are so many more people around here that deserve credibility when they know what they know.

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Others aren't using racist analogies to try and make a point.

Listening to Hart's interview on MLB Network, what pisses me off the most is how he suggests that this deal actually makes us better in the short term. In very few circumstances does trading your best player make you better in the short term, and certainly not this one.

And to all of those posters on here and Scout who wanted us to blow up and rebuild every time the team went in a slump or lost in the playoffs, here is to you.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/54...Vv14_Promo.JPG

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Originally Posted by drewdat

Heyward said the 10 minute long-term extension discussion was in November or December of 2012 and the subject was never again revisited. The two year arbitration buyout was agreed during 2014 ST. Does that timeline make any sense? Especially when Hart seems to indicate about the 2014 ST negotiations (in annoyingly vague terms I guess) that the team wouldn't be able to come to a long-term agreement. I doubt that conclusion was reached solely upon the radio silence Heyward seems to indicate.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that Heyward's lying. All of the quotes he's given are that the team didn't come to him or the team never sat down with him and his agent. None of them say that there was no contact with only his agent gauging interest between 2012 and 2014. If you take his words literally, he was not an immediate party to any long-term contract discussions after 2012. Nothing is said one way or another about feelers being sent to his agent, which ramadon has claimed occurred, and which reason dictates would have had to occur. Depending on how informal and/or unproductive those discussions were, Heyward may not have even been made aware of them.

Even if Heyward were aware of agent contact, as long as the Braves didn't set up a meeting with he and his agent (and I'm sure they didn't, likely because they weren't close on a deal and it would have been pointless), his words, taken literally, are consistent. It also isn't inconsistent for Jason to have wanted a meeting, to have been unwilling to settle for whatever the Braves would have offered in said meeting, and to feel disrespected by the fact that no meetings occurred even though they would have led to nothing.

Another thing. "I wanted to stay..." Ellipsis. Finish the sentence. I wanted to stay... for the right terms. Doesn't say anything about a hometown discount, or about needing to have the highest bid. It has no meaningful context. But it sounds nice.

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Best post in this thread by far.