Starting pitching bWAR

[msstate7]

Jamie = 1.0
Newcomb = 1.0
Folty = 0.5
Dickey = 0.3
Julio = -0.4
Colon = -2.1
Total = 0.3

Pretty amazing to me that this team is just 2 games under .500, 2nd place in division, and 2 place for last WC spot with such little production from this group and FF out.

[nsacpi]

proof that pitching aint that important

[Super]

proof that pitching aint that important

i know this is a joke but i just have to confirm

[nsacpi]

i know this is a joke but i just have to confirm

confirmed

...but it is worth emphasizing that there are a lot of different ways of building a championship ballclub, some of which are not centered around pitching

[Super]

confirmed

...but it is worth emphasizing that there are a lot of different ways of building a championship ballclub, some of which are not centered around pitching

Yeah, I don't think anyone would debate that.

[Enscheff]

Yeah, I don't think anyone would debate that.

I can think of 3 guys named John that would.

[Super]

Jamie = 1.0
Newcomb = 1.0
Folty = 0.5
Dickey = 0.3
Julio = -0.4
Colon = -2.1
Total = 0.3

Pretty amazing to me that this team is just 2 games under .500, 2nd place in division, and 2 place for last WC spot with such little production from this group and FF out.

when it's just one starter weighing it down so heavily it makes a little more sense.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Newcomb has already had (tied for) the best year of any of our SPs in 4 starts...

[msstate7]

I can name several current teams that have rebuilt successfully by focusing on position player prospects.

I can name the Mets as that latest team to have pitching assets blow up in their faces.

Can you name a single team that successfully built around pitching prospects? And no, the 90s Braves don't count.

Giants count? Weren't MB, lincecum, and Cain all homegrown?

[zitothebrave]

Giants count? Weren't MB, lincecum, and Cain all homegrown?

Yes, but when the Giants were at their best they also had Posey, Sandoval when he was good, Pence, Melky on roids, and many other talented position players.

[Super]

Yes, but when the Giants were at their best they also had Posey, Sandoval when he was good, Pence, Melky on roids, and many other talented position players.

so most teams need good pitching AND good hitting. got it.
i wouldn't say the giants were built around offense at that time.

[zitothebrave]

so most teams need good pitching AND good hitting. got it.
i wouldn't say the giants were built around offense at that time.

I said at their peak which was like 2010 and 2012 when they scored 700 runs a year. Which yeah isn't an offensive powerhouse, but it was around league average or better.

MLB success is built around a lot of pitching talent and quality position talent. We right now I think have 2 quality young position players. Freeman and Swanson. Which Swanson of course has a long way to go to get to a high level.

And out position player prospects have some concerns. Albies is basically another Swanson, Acuna looks like he could be great, though right now we have a lot of expensive veterans clogging up our corners. Maitan is an exciting prospect but is at least 3 years from the bigs.

And it comes back to the issue some of us had with our blow up. It wasn't that we blew the system up, we blew it up for a ton of pitching prospects. After trading Justin, Jason, and Gattis, we ot back Miller, Jenkins, Fried, the Petersons, Smith, Ruiz, Thurman, and Folty. And our biggest draws from that were Miller, Fried, and Folty, Our best position prospect was Ruiz who's struggled since hitting AA. Mallex may wind up being the best player in that trade.

[Super]

I said at their peak which was like 2010 and 2012 when they scored 700 runs a year. Which yeah isn't an offensive powerhouse, but it was around league average or better.

MLB success is built around a lot of pitching talent and quality position talent. We right now I think have 2 quality young position players. Freeman and Swanson. Which Swanson of course has a long way to go to get to a high level.

And out position player prospects have some concerns. Albies is basically another Swanson, Acuna looks like he could be great, though right now we have a lot of expensive veterans clogging up our corners. Maitan is an exciting prospect but is at least 3 years from the bigs.

And it comes back to the issue some of us had with our blow up. It wasn't that we blew the system up, we blew it up for a ton of pitching prospects. After trading Justin, Jason, and Gattis, we ot back Miller, Jenkins, Fried, the Petersons, Smith, Ruiz, Thurman, and Folty. And our biggest draws from that were Miller, Fried, and Folty, Our best position prospect was Ruiz who's struggled since hitting AA. Mallex may wind up being the best player in that trade.

But Miller was flipped for Swanson and Inciarte. So that counts. But I don't know what was being offered for guys with 1-year left on their deals. So I'm not sure which hitters were possible out of all of that. Maybe none of them were worth while.

[Russ2dollas]

I said at their peak which was like 2010 and 2012 when they scored 700 runs a year. Which yeah isn't an offensive powerhouse, but it was around league average or better.

MLB success is built around a lot of pitching talent and quality position talent. We right now I think have 2 quality young position players. Freeman and Swanson. Which Swanson of course has a long way to go to get to a high level.

And out position player prospects have some concerns. Albies is basically another Swanson, Acuna looks like he could be great, though right now we have a lot of expensive veterans clogging up our corners. Maitan is an exciting prospect but is at least 3 years from the bigs.

And it comes back to the issue some of us had with our blow up. It wasn't that we blew the system up, we blew it up for a ton of pitching prospects. After trading Justin, Jason, and Gattis, we ot back Miller, Jenkins, Fried, the Petersons, Smith, Ruiz, Thurman, and Folty. And our biggest draws from that were Miller, Fried, and Folty, Our best position prospect was Ruiz who's struggled since hitting AA. Mallex may wind up being the best player in that trade.

Projecting out more than a couple years is tough.

FF is clearly a plus 1B. We'll see about the injury and 3B. Before injury he was looking plus plus.
Inciarte is a plus CF. He looks like he's going to be a 3-4 Win player
Swanson I think is going to be a 2-3 War SS.
Flowers is not young but hes starting to look like he's mad a change to a legit 1.5-3 WAR guy
Albies I think will be a 2-3 WAR guy at least. He should defend his way to 1+ WAR and even if it's empty I think he hits and walks enough.

If that's the case we should be looking at major upgrades in the areas where it should be the easiest to upgrade....OF corners and either INF corner where FF is not.

[bravesfanMatt]

Yes, but when the Giants were at their best they also had Posey, Sandoval when he was good, Pence, Melky on roids, and many other talented position players.

Posey was the only home grown in that group right?

[nsacpi]

Posey was the only home grown in that group right?

I think Sandoval, Belt and Crawford were all home grown.

[smootness]

Yes, but when the Giants were at their best they also had Posey, Sandoval when he was good, Pence, Melky on roids, and many other talented position players.

And we have many talented position prospects. So sweet.

[Enscheff]

Giants count? Weren't MB, lincecum, and Cain all homegrown?

They were. Here are the years each debuted...

Cain: 2005
Lincecum: 2007
MadBum: 2009 (10 IP)

Not exactly the same concentration the Braves are currently attempting.

[Super]

the Mets also didn't have as many pitchers in their system as we do.

[smootness]

They were. Here are the years each debuted...

Cain: 2005
Lincecum: 2007
MadBum: 2009 (10 IP)

Not exactly the same concentration the Braves are currently attempting.

So the Braves have even more pitching than the Giants did....which is a bad thing?

We also have the position prospects. It's not like we're sacrificing position talent for pitching.