Braves1976 (01-05-2015), jpx7 (01-05-2015), Prikichi (01-05-2015), UNCBlue012 (01-06-2015)
Pitching travels to borrow a football analogy
BedellBrave (01-05-2015), clvclv (01-08-2015)
I think Hart is just trying to making ammends for the inability to put together a formiable pitching staff, especially one with an legit ace, for those mid 90's Cleveland teams which were loaded with offense but cobbled together pitching staffs.
Hopefully Hart soon can inner his Cleveland self and start assembling and putting together some offensive players to compliment a now pitching rich organization. We don't need to be that good (mid 90's Cleveland offense) but we need to get some semblence of talent to surround Freeman going forward.
But as of right now, we're right where I expected us to be in the process of reloading (as far as trades and taking on some high risk/high reward deals)...but there is much more work, and I assure you Hart & JC is only getting started. It's gonna be a fun ride and see how it all shakes out and materializes in the end.
I don't really see them as pitching rich either. They seem to be a collection of reclamation projects deemed necessary due to a pitching barren farm system.
Tehran
Woods
Miller
etc
etc
with blank spaces in front of Kimbrel
could work out - but, Braves were not dealing from a position of strength in any of these deals
Absolutely. The whole idea of "you can never have too much pitching" has no basis in this reality. Pitching is important without a doubt. But, someone has to get on base, drive runs in and score.
We are a long way from the "Chicks did the long ball" era. People want to project out what the pitching will be in 2017 (even though injury is much more likely). What about the starting 8? Right now, it looks like Freeman at 1B, CB at catcher, Peraza at 2B, Simmons at SS and a 35 yo Markakis in RF with the rest up for grabs.
And the whole idea of trading for what you need from your pitching depth doesn't work either in a pitching era. It's simple supply and demand. Scarcity determines value. Lots of pitching, less valuable. Scarce hitting, more valuable.
Hart was a great GM in the late 80's and 90's when pitching was scarce and hitting was plentiful. He's conducting this offseason like it still was the 90's.
Braves1976 (01-05-2015), Hawk (01-05-2015)
So, here's a how thread ideas come. Wait until something pops up on MLBTR, then do a copy & paste job.
57Brave (01-05-2015), Braves1976 (01-05-2015), BRule (01-06-2015), jpx7 (01-05-2015)
jpx7 (01-06-2015)
Knucksie (01-05-2015)
Clearly the Braves didn't think we were resigning JUp or Heyward and that we weren't a playoff team. We have argued that point, but we don't know for sure. Hart has said he didn't think we were in the national's league.
If next year doesn't matter (not making playoffs) then a year of JUp or Heyward is out of the equation. So then Hart is evaluating a compensation pick vs Miller/Jenkins (I like Miller/Jenkins by a long shot) and Freid et al (I think I like Freid). I also don't know how the draft rules play into it (ie if you have 3 comp picks plus our first rounder does it mess up our pool or bonus, etc).
I think the Braves expect Graham to make it back to us. They may be wrong.
Really wish we could have had one of those Padres top guys. Even if we had to pay JUp to play for them. It appears we are not doing anything with the money.
Markakis I will never understand. Even if he's great this year, I just don't see how he fits in 17 and 18.
Well, congrats, you made our defense worse. If we moved for Zobrist the better option is to dump Johnson for whatever we can get and go with
RF - Markakis
2B - Zobrist
1B - Freeman
LF - Gattis
3B - Peterson/Callaspo
CF - Bossman
SS - Simmons
C - Bethancourt.
Callaspo at 2B would be a tragedy. Even if you keep ti that way though, no way od you put Zobrist, who's been a fantastic RF thouhg with individual season sampling issues in LF over Markakis who's been well below average.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
Moncada is the only way to "save" the offseason from a PR standpoint. Obviously the results will dictate over time.
Moncada would get fans excited about something. Hopefully we get him and hopefully he's not a BJ, KK, Uggla, Lowe.......basically a braves FA signing.
NYC is spot on, if we went for it, Justin/Jason walk for nothing, Hart looks like an idiot.
Now, the deals arent great at all, no one disputes that but if Hart knows neither will re-up, why keep both for a slim shot to make the playoffs?
Jason deal is alright.
Justin deal is more of a depth move, and might have not let them take a stab at Manny if it didnt happen.
Markakis deal is a bit of a head scratcher but they need someone to play RF :)
Legit criticism. Only caveat is I think that those who criticize the off-season the heaviest think we could have contended in 2015. Maybe we could have. I'm in the camp that thinks we would have been hard pressed to do so, but I think the opposing view can't be dismissed out of hand. I thought we would get more for J. Upton than we did. Curious to see how La Stella does, but I think Vizcaino and the bonus slot money is a pretty good haul for him. The Markakis deal is a total head-scratcher to me. He's a good player, but I wouldn't have gone over three years for him.
I have been pretty critical but never thought there was a chance to compete in 2015. In fact, I have been saying for at least 4 years that the Braves were badly constructed and needed to rebuild/retool. The problem with rebuilding is that if you mention the word everyone assumes that you mean fire sale or something worse.
I think we are in a bigger bind now because the Braves tried to limp along to success without rebuilding.
I really don't have an issue with the Cub, Card or Yank trades. I do think Hart completely misplayed his hand on Upton - then panic set in and he jumped at what most likely will be a bad deal. The Markakis deal makes NO sense, no matter how you slice it. At his best he's below league average, but he's injured. Why sign a guy like that to big money and years when he makes no real difference in the team for likely his entire contract at best and could easily become an albatross like Uggla, Upton and Johnson. It would have been much better to throw a small contract at Ichiro and put him in RF everyday and say "go chase 3,000." At least it would give fans something to look forward to.
I also have big concerns that Gattis is still here. I think the odds are good that if he's still here at the end of the 2015 season he will have almost no value, since I think the odds are good that he is an injury waiting to happen.
Overall, my biggest beef is that the Braves are doing a kinda-sorta-half rebuild-half not lets hope the fans don't notice rebuild and that is not efficient.
50PoundHead (01-06-2015)