2016-2017 Off-Season Thread

[smootness]

Weird. I was told by several members of this board that Perez and Whalen were going to be solid rotation pieces because they "hit their spots", "knew how to pitch", and "just got people out". I insisted they were not MLB quality starters, but these posters so much smarter than me screamed over and over that I was wrong.

This is all so confusing. How are these genius board members always so wrong? And why do they continue to argue after always being so wrong about everything?

How are you not banned yet? All of your posts are nothing but condescension and snark.

Don't take the internet so seriously, dawg.

[smootness]

Davis is also not Kimbrel. Look at what the Padres got for Kimbrel. That's what we would be looking at and that's a lot better than Wisler, Touki, and Riley.

You sure about that? They got Margot, which is great. Guerra isn't that great. They're pretty comparable.

[Southcack77]

People realize we still got a pretty solid return for Kimbrell right? Wisler was their No. 1 prospect at the time (and a top 50 prospect). And we got a draft pick that we turned into Riley. And we flipped Maybin into a pretty useful piece in Krol. It's possible the money that it freed up also allowed us to "buy" Touki.

Kimbrel trade was fine.

Cameron Maybin - (traded for Krol) (was upgrade in center while he was around)
Wisler (#34 BA, Kiley McDaniel #41, )
Paroubeck (traded for int'l draft spots)
Draft Pick #41

Braves shed 45 million of Melvin Upton.
Kimbrell was due 46 million over four years, hell of a luxury on a 65 win team.

Used the money for a number of things, including draft and international signings.

That was a lot of stuff for a closer. Sox gave a nice package for Kimbrell as well, but #26 as opposed to #34/#41 and they didn't shed 45 million dollars of dead weight.

[smootness]

Do you realize the Padres then flipped Kimbrel with 1 less year of control for a package centered around Manny Margot? He is the #26 prospect right now, and is worth WAY more than anyone not named Swanson the Braves got in any trade.

I would gladly swap everything the Braves got for Kimbrel straight up just for Margot.

If Dave Stewart wasn't quite possibly the worst GM of the modern sports era, the Braves rebuild would be in pretty awful shape right now, and that is due primarily to screwing the pooch on deals like the Kimbrel trade. Literally the only currently useful parts the Braves have to show for this rebuild (Inciarte and Swanson) were gifts from the inept DBacks FO. Most of the success this rebuild has seen to date is due the Braves being the lucky beneficiary of the DBacks stupidity.

Give me one other GM who bent Stewart over. Coppy spotted the moron and played him. He gets credit for that.

[Southcack77]

Want to know what makes it even worse? The Braves should be out looking for a RHed 4th OFer this very moment.

Guess what BJ's numbers were vs LHers last season? I'll save you the trouble...he posted an .874 OPS against them. And in 2015? A cool .792 OPS vs LHers.

So not only did they water down Kimbrel's trade return by sending BJ along for the ride and not use the saved money to help compete at the MLB level, they also traded away a guy that would have been the PERFECT 4th OFer this season.

It's the trade that bit the Braves 3 times!

Yes, the Braves could have had a 16 million dollar 4th OF. I'm sure they are kicking themselves given he was awful in Atlanta and there is little reason to think he would have been better given more time.

Pads liked him so much they ate his contract to get rid of him.

I swear for someone who acts like the smartest guy in the room 24/7 you say some dumb ****.

[smootness]

At the time of the deal, Kimbrel was worth about $26 million in surplus value. That's about what Wisler was worth as well.

So...how was it such a bad deal?

[Enscheff]

Yes, the Braves could have had a 16 million dollar 4th OF. I'm sure they are kicking themselves given he was awful in Atlanta and there is little reason to think he would have been better given more time.

Pads liked him so much they ate his contract to get rid of him.

I swear for someone who acts like the smartest guy in the room 24/7 you say some dumb ****.

The point you so clearly missed is that the Braves could have eaten BJs contract themselves, and likely had a useful 4th OFer. Instead, they grouped him with Kimberly, and got a return much less valuable than had they traded Kimbrel for Margot themselves.

Sorry, I didn't think the logic was so hard to follow. And BJ as a 4th OFer was only slightly serious.

[Enscheff]

At the time of the deal, Kimbrel was worth about $26 million in surplus value. That's about what Wisler was worth as well.

So...how was it such a bad deal?

Because I would rather have SD's return for Kimbrel than what the Braves got. Again, I'm sorry the logic is so hard to follow.

[Southcack77]

The point you so clearly missed is that the Braves could have eaten BJs contract themselves, and likely had a useful 4th OFer. Instead, they grouped him with Kimberly, and got a return much less valuable than had they traded Kimbrel for Margot themselves.

Sorry, I didn't think the logic was so hard to follow. And BJ as a 4th OFer was only slightly serious.

your arguments aren't very hard to follow.

[smootness]

Because I would rather have SD's return for Kimbrel than what the Braves got. Again, I'm sorry the logic is so hard to follow.

And you know San Diego was offering that package to us? In fact, that GM wasn't even there yet. To use your own logic, finding one dumb GM doesn't mean anything other than you got lucky. Sorry that logic is so hard for you to follow.

Look, you use surplus value to evaluate every trade. But this time, not only do you ignore it, you call a good deal according to surplus value 'screwing the pooch' and hurting the rebuild.

Hey, good one.

[bravesfanMatt]

How are you not banned yet? All of your posts are nothing but condescension and snark.

Don't take the internet so seriously, dawg.

You are like the guy who gets mad that the pigeons keep crapping on his car but then keeps putting out bread crumbs. Have you not figured it out that if you don't feed him he will stop.

[msstate7]

your arguments aren't very hard to follow.

It's bc you're stupid!!!

Took care of it for you, enscheff








I'm playing BTW, southcack

[Heyward]

Fowler to the Cards, looks like around 5 years, 80-90 million.

[gilesfan]

People realize we still got a pretty solid return for Kimbrell right? Wisler was their No. 1 prospect at the time (and a top 50 prospect). And we got a draft pick that we turned into Riley. And we flipped Maybin into a pretty useful piece in Krol. It's possible the money that it freed up also allowed us to "buy" Touki.

It was most certainly not a good deal when considering what closers have gone for. Matt Wisler. Come on.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

It was most certainly not a good deal when considering what closers have gone for. Matt Wisler. Come on.

I hate potential #3 starters too (what he was thought of at the time).

[Carp]

Do you realize the Padres then flipped Kimbrel with 1 less year of control for a package centered around Manny Margot? He is the #26 prospect right now, and is worth WAY more than anyone not named Swanson the Braves got in any trade.

I would gladly swap everything the Braves got for Kimbrel straight up just for Margot.

If Dave Stewart wasn't quite possibly the worst GM of the modern sports era, the Braves rebuild would be in pretty awful shape right now, and that is due primarily to screwing the pooch on deals like the Kimbrel trade. Literally the only currently useful parts the Braves have to show for this rebuild (Inciarte and Swanson) were gifts from the inept DBacks FO. Most of the success this rebuild has seen to date is due the Braves being the lucky beneficiary of the DBacks stupidity.

Your ineptitude is unfounded. Truly. Certainly if Wisler wasn't struggling you'd be singing a different tune.

[Carp]

It was most certainly not a good deal when considering what closers have gone for. Matt Wisler. Come on.

Wisler was the No. 36 prospect in the game. He hasn't worked out so far. That doesn't mean he was bad value at the time. And we also got the pick that turned into Riley (who could easily be a top 100 prospect this time next year if he keeps progressing). Also got a solid year out of Maybin and then flipped him for a useful reliever.

[gilesfan]

Wisler was the No. 36 prospect in the game. He hasn't worked out so far. That doesn't mean he was bad value at the time. And we also got the pick that turned into Riley (who could easily be a top 100 prospect this time next year if he keeps progressing). Also got a solid year out of Maybin and then flipped him for a useful reliever.

How does that package compare to chapman/Miller?

[Carp]

How does that package compare to chapman/Miller?

I guess the Pads got a terrible deal then as well by that logic?

[gilesfan]

I guess the Pads got a terrible deal then as well by that logic?

Its wasnt as good as the others but a heck of a lot better than what we got from Pads and we had an extra year of control.