REAL FOOTBALL Thread

[striker42]

I won't say Stafford won't end up in the hall. But unless he starts tearing **** up it's unlikely. Don't get me wrong, he's a rock solid qb. But he's basically been in the league about the same amount of time as Ryan (ryan has been around 1 more year, and has overall been healthier) He would need a SB win or 2 to get into the HOF discussion. Right now his best case scenario is a strong career finish and hope for the Jim Kelly experience.

But you have to consider who he's competing with, as far as era (like 10 years) with guys like Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Wilson, Eli, Cam. Right now he's on the Carson Palmer path it seems.

Sorry, didn't mean to fully derail your point. COuldn't help myself.

I think looking at it more. There's some years that are just a big ol' chef's kiss.

2012 aside from Johnny Football winning, Manti Te'o was second and Collin Klein was 3rd. 2007 was another with Tebow, McFadden, and Colt Brennan. 06 with Troy Smith, McFadden and Brady Quinn. 01 with Crouch, Grossman and Dorsey.

Stafford isn't a lock for the Hall but I wouldn't say it's unlikely. Barring injury, there's a good chance he ends the season 12th on the all time passing yards list. If he continues to play into his late 30s (not a stretch) he should end up in the top 10 with a good shot at the top 5. He's got a good chance to end his career with more yards than Rodgers, Eli Manning, Marino, and Rivers. You mentioned Carson Palmer but he'll probably pass Palmer in his next game.

If Stafford plays into his late 30's there's a good chance he gets into the top 10 all time in TDs as well.

A lot depends on how he finishes out his career. Another 4 or 5 years of decent production (putting him retiring at 38) and I think he ends up in the Hall. If he gets hurt or collapses then he's on the fringes, probably left out in favor of all the other QBs of his time.

[zitothebrave]

What's of note, QBs now are much more likely to wind up super high on the list of passing yards. Marino was a freak back in the day, but in the late 90s they started protecting the QB more. If guys like Steve Young played 15 years later, they'd be way up the list. Marino is about to be passed by Big Ben and was passed by Rivers. I love those 2 guys, but they're not comparable to Marino.

Back then being able to play healthy for 16 years was amazing. Now it's almost a given.

I think what Stafford will struggle with is being compared to his peers. Now that could change if he leads the Rams to the Super Bowl. But if they just toil in being a good but not great team, I think unless he goes on to pass Brees or Brady he has a small shot at best at the hall. THe majority of the guys you mentioned him winding up with more career yards than have won Super Bowls. Or in Marino's case were so far superior to his peers. Assuming health is equal. Everyone will likely look at Stafford and compare him to Ryan and Wilson and he doesn't quite stack up to those 2. If early returns on this season hold he could finally get something that puts him with everyone else, an MVP. But the returns are early. And even then, Mahomes is beasting hard.

[thewupk]

Stafford is a guy that will need to win a Superbowl to get into the HOF

[zitothebrave]

Man I am looking through weekend Box Scores, Justin FIelds may have had the worst first start for a 1st round pick QB ever.

In 20 attempts he had 6 completions, and 9 sacks, for a net Yard of 1. Only 2 positives you can draw, he didn't throw a pick, and really you can only go up from a game where about 60% of your drop backs resulted in a sack or incompletion. (i'm assuming his 3 rushes were also drop backs, though I wouldn't call them net positive plays)

While I know it includes games he came off the bench. His ANY/A is 0.02.

I don't expect him to stay that bad. But holy cannoli is that horrific.

[striker42]

Man I am looking through weekend Box Scores, Justin FIelds may have had the worst first start for a 1st round pick QB ever.

In 20 attempts he had 6 completions, and 9 sacks, for a net Yard of 1. Only 2 positives you can draw, he didn't throw a pick, and really you can only go up from a game where about 60% of your drop backs resulted in a sack or incompletion. (i'm assuming his 3 rushes were also drop backs, though I wouldn't call them net positive plays)

While I know it includes games he came off the bench. His ANY/A is 0.02.

I don't expect him to stay that bad. But holy cannoli is that horrific.

It was a terrible start. He was bad but his coaches didn't do him any favors. Nagy is an awful coach. I think Orlovsky called it the worst gameplan he'd ever seen.

It's a tough situation for Fields. He's not ready for the NFL yet. I really wanted Atlanta to draft him and have him sit behind Ryan for a year. He'd benefit so much from a year of learning from a QB like that. Him having to be thrown in there with one of the worst coaches in the NFL at the reins is a bad situation.

[striker42]

What's of note, QBs now are much more likely to wind up super high on the list of passing yards. Marino was a freak back in the day, but in the late 90s they started protecting the QB more. If guys like Steve Young played 15 years later, they'd be way up the list. Marino is about to be passed by Big Ben and was passed by Rivers. I love those 2 guys, but they're not comparable to Marino.

Back then being able to play healthy for 16 years was amazing. Now it's almost a given.

I think what Stafford will struggle with is being compared to his peers. Now that could change if he leads the Rams to the Super Bowl. But if they just toil in being a good but not great team, I think unless he goes on to pass Brees or Brady he has a small shot at best at the hall. THe majority of the guys you mentioned him winding up with more career yards than have won Super Bowls. Or in Marino's case were so far superior to his peers. Assuming health is equal. Everyone will likely look at Stafford and compare him to Ryan and Wilson and he doesn't quite stack up to those 2. If early returns on this season hold he could finally get something that puts him with everyone else, an MVP. But the returns are early. And even then, Mahomes is beasting hard.

Stafford, if he continues on his current pace for another 3 years, will probably end up with numbers very, very similar to Phillip Rivers. If he plays 5 more years with good production, he'll be closing in on Favre numbers.

So if he goes for another 3 years with good production but no super bowl wins, we'll have to see what happens with Rivers. If Rivers makes it to the Hall, there's no way Stafford gets left out. If he goes 5 more years with good production, I don't see how you can leave him out. If he does that, he'll end with around 70,000 yards and closing in on 500 TDs.

He's not a lock but he has a good chance. If he wins a Super Bowl or MVP he'll be close to a lock, but otherwise it will depend on longevity. If he can be like Rodgers and put up good numbers until age 38, he's going to be close to a lock.

[zitothebrave]

Rivers has a lot more going against him that Stafford. Stafford played with Megatron. That will always be held against him. Just like Ryan playing with Julio will always be held against him.

Stafford vs. Rivers is a tough comparison because Stafford never had to be benched. Rivers didn't start a game until he was 25.

Rivers once he started was an iron man, starting 16 games 15 seasons in a row.

What you're also ignoring is record, GWD, Probowl selections. Etc.

Stafford has a losing QB record and likley remains that way.

Stafford also has some weird stats. Like despite leading the league in attempts twice, and compeltions once, he never lead the league in yards. I mean he could have an amazing finish to his career and get in there. But right now he's certainly on the outside looking in. What will always be look at is he came into the league 1 year after Ryan and is 10K yards behind. Mainly because Ryan's been healthier, but that will be who he compares to most likely Ryan a 4 time pro-bowler, 1 time first team all pro, and MVP, to Stafford, a 1 time probowler

Right now you have to look at this and consider it's points as right now it's pretty accurate

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_QB.htm

Also realize that Stafford will be compared to people coming after him too. I don't think Ryan has a great shot at the hall perosnally, and if I think that of Ryan it should tell you where I'm at with Stafford.

[zitothebrave]

It was a terrible start. He was bad but his coaches didn't do him any favors. Nagy is an awful coach. I think Orlovsky called it the worst gameplan he'd ever seen.

It's a tough situation for Fields. He's not ready for the NFL yet. I really wanted Atlanta to draft him and have him sit behind Ryan for a year. He'd benefit so much from a year of learning from a QB like that. Him having to be thrown in there with one of the worst coaches in the NFL at the reins is a bad situation.

For sure it's a bad sitaution. I didn't like fields because I don't like OSU QBs. But going to Chicago is like poison for QBs. Their best QB by a mile is Jay Cutler. Who was a very mediocre QB. RBs and defense are amazing in Chicago, that's true.

[Carp]

Nagy is going to ruin Fields. Bears should fire him and hire an OC that actually knows to utilize him, like Chiefs OC or may be the Ravens.

[Tapate50]

Nagy is going to ruin Fields. Bears should fire him and hire an OC that actually knows to utilize him, like Chiefs OC or may be the Ravens.

Eh.

OSU qbs play in an extremely friendly system. Hard to tell true talent level when you are constantly the most talented team on the field top to bottom. He won't be that in the NFL for a while.

[zitothebrave]

No team in the NFL is top to bottom the best. Look at some of the top players in the NFL, some of them play on terrible teams.

[Tapate50]

Yeah, i know. thanks.

[striker42]

Eh.

OSU qbs play in an extremely friendly system. Hard to tell true talent level when you are constantly the most talented team on the field top to bottom. He won't be that in the NFL for a while.

Fields raw talent level is unquestioned. He has a very strong and accurate arm so he can make all the throws and his athleticism is unquestioned. The area where he was lagging behind was in making reads. Ohio State runs an offense that requires the QB to make fewer reads than a lot of other programs so making the jump from that to the NFL is a big jump. If he can develop in that area then the sky's the limit. I think he'll develop provided he has the right coaching staff.

[zitothebrave]

Raw talent flames out many times.

You're not wrong, if he developed he could be great. Or he could be another RG3

[striker42]

Raw talent flames out many times.

You're not wrong, if he developed he could be great. Or he could be another RG3

Absolutely true. He's a risk, no doubt. I thought he was the perfect risk for Atlanta though. There's a decent chance this is Ryan's last year in Atlanta so the Falcons need an heir. Anyone thinking they'd compete this year was fooling themselves so a win now pick made now sense. Letting Fields study for a year under Matt Ryan would be the perfect situation for him. What Ryan does best (reads, anticipation, throwing players open, etc) are exactly the things that Fields needs to improve on.

Then there's the fact that Fields is a local product which makes him marketing gold. His physical gifts also make him the kind of player that could electrify Atlanta's fan base in the way Vick did. Ryan is a great QB but he's not exactly exciting. If Fields were to put it all together in Atlanta he'd be the city's biggest sports star in decades, possibly ever. I think that upside was worth the risk.

[Tapate50]

Fields doesn't exactly have a great name around GA for transferring out. Just sayin'

[striker42]

Fields doesn't exactly have a great name around GA for transferring out. Just sayin'

The transfer doesn't bother many people. We all knew whoever Kirby chose between Fromm and Fields the other would transfer. Picking Fromm was one of Kirby's less popular calls.

[striker42]

The Falcons suck so bad. And they look to have zero idea how they'll rebuild. They could be bad for a long time.

[Tapate50]

Idk- I see more from them now with a less talented roster than I saw under Quinn minus shanahan.

The play calling is creative at least.

[striker42]

Idk- I see more from them now with a less talented roster than I saw under Quinn minus shanahan.

The play calling is creative at least.

My issues are more big picture. They don't seem to understand they're a team in need of a rebuild.