Official 2017 Trade Deadilne Thread

[clvclv]

Braves are desperate to contend for some reason instead of properly rebuilding. Any small chance of contention and they are going to try and go for it. Braves are now also 8-11 against the tough part of their schedule which is a 68 win pace. Good job on thinking that's impressive.

Do you not remember the start of the season when everyone was sucking Kemp off at being a reborn player and that his lack of defense was exaggerated because 'he catches what he gets to'?

"Everyone" is a handful of posters? In that case, sure.

Most people have pretty much likened Kemp and the Freeman experiment to the Klesko days of yesteryear - so long as they drive in more than they let in, you live with it because the alternative options are worse.

If the Braves were "desperate to contend for some reason instead of properly rebuilding", Quintana and Gray would both be in the rotation, sorry.

As for the 8-11 record against the toughest stretch of their schedule, that ain't bad for a rebuilding team - you guys were painting that as a stretch where they'd be lucky to win 3 or 4 games. Yes they were swept by the defending Champs (who've come out of the break on fire), but they had a split against the hottest team since the Tigers started 35-5 oh so many years ago, and split with the D-Backs. The only time they looked overmatched was against Houston, and it's pretty tough to say most teams aren't.

[thewupk]

"Everyone" is a handful of posters? In that case, sure.

Most people have pretty much likened Kemp and the Freeman experiment to the Klesko days of yesteryear - so long as they drive in more than they let in, you live with it because the alternative options are worse.

If the Braves were "desperate to contend for some reason instead of properly rebuilding", Quintana and Gray would both be in the rotation, sorry.

There is still time for Gray.

Yes everyone is hyperbole because there are some sane people on here that knew Kemp is not going to be a good player. He's even been worse than we imagined.

And the alternatives are certainly not worse. We had a fine young outfielder in Mallex Smith who is hands down a better overall player than Kemp right now.

[Southcack77]

It was actually 5 years of Simmons at 53 million.

Simmons as a 3 WAR player on that contract is valuable and it's likely Newk doesn't come close to it.

I'm calculating his value going forward. He has three years left. that should have been clear from my actually setting forth the numbers in my post.

Unless you want to take the position the Braves should have tried to win rather than rebuild it is not especially relevant what he did in 2016 or 2017 beyond projecting what he might do going forward.

I don't have any idea whether Newcomb will be a 3 WAR player or not. He's a .5 in his first 8 starts. Could go either way, I guess. The Braves won't pay him much to find out.

[clvclv]

There is still time for Gray.

Yes everyone is hyperbole because there are some sane people on here that knew Kemp is not going to be a good player. He's even been worse than we imagined.

And the alternatives are certainly not worse. We had a fine young outfielder in Mallex Smith who is hands down a better overall player than Kemp right now.

The only people screaming about Gray are you and the blackjack dealer. When they make that trade, everyone will be happy to kiss your *sses. They're not even being mentioned as remotely close to being the highest bidders. As Southcack correctly pointed out - you guys keep expecting them to do something they haven't done. If they were so desperate to contend, this system would've been emptied a month or two ago.

They were going to have to eat a bad contract regardless of how Kemp performs - would you rather be paying Olivera to hang out at home and accost women?

[thewupk]

I'm calculating his value going forward. He has three years left. that should have been clear from my actually setting forth the numbers in my post.

Unless you want to take the position the Braves should have tried to win rather than rebuild it is not especially relevant what he did in 2016 or 2017 beyond projecting what he might do going forward.

I don't have any idea whether Newcomb will be a 3 WAR player or not. He's a .5 in his first 8 starts. Could go either way, I guess. The Braves won't pay him much to find out.

Fair enough if you are going forward with it. I'd still rather have Simmons.

[Southcack77]

There is still time for Gray.

Yes everyone is hyperbole because there are some sane people on here that knew Kemp is not going to be a good player. He's even been worse than we imagined.

And the alternatives are certainly not worse. We had a fine young outfielder in Mallex Smith who is hands down a better overall player than Kemp right now.

Mallex of the .429 BABIP in the first half.

He's a much better defender than Kemp. We will see how wRC+ ends up. Kemp's hot streak was a lot better than Smith's.

Either way Mallex is not serious answer for the future in left field and he was moved for a pitcher who is a top 100 guy.

Do you really want to build around Mallex Smith or are you just bitching about the Braves acquiring Kemp. I'm with you on that one, but I don't care about Mallex Smith.

[thewupk]

The only people screaming about Gray are you and the blackjack dealer. When they make that trade, everyone will be happy to kiss your *sses. They're not even being mentioned as remotely close to being the highest bidders.

They were going to have to eat a bad contract regardless of how Kemp performs - would you rather be paying Olivera to hang out at home and accost women?

Yes. Simply cutting HO instead of compounding the problem by acquiring Kemp is many times better. In fact HO sitting at home is providing more wins to the Padres than Kemp is by playing LF for the Braves.

[thewupk]

Mallex of the .429 BABIP in the first half.

He's a much better defender than Kemp. We will see how wRC+ ends up. Kemp's hot streak was a lot better than Smith's.

Either way Mallex is not serious answer for the future in left field and he was moved for a pitcher who is a top 100 guy.

Do you really want to build around Mallex Smith or are you just bitching about the Braves acquiring Kemp. I'm with you on that one, but I don't care about Mallex Smith.

clv said the alternatives were worse than Kemp. We had better options on the roster when that trade was made.

[clvclv]

Yes. Simply cutting HO instead of compounding the problem by acquiring Kemp is many times better. In fact HO sitting at home is providing more wins to the Padres than Kemp is by playing LF for the Braves.

Apparently you have no idea how small a minority you're in in that case.

[Enscheff]

Yes. Simply cutting HO instead of compounding the problem by acquiring Kemp is many times better. In fact HO sitting at home is providing more wins to the Padres than Kemp is by playing LF for the Braves.

Haha, sad, but true.

[Enscheff]

Apparently you have no idea how small a minority you're in in that case.

LOL, you have shown time and time again you have NO clue what you're talking about.

Now you're proving that fact...again.

[smootness]

Yes. Simply cutting HO instead of compounding the problem by acquiring Kemp is many times better. In fact HO sitting at home is providing more wins to the Padres than Kemp is by playing LF for the Braves.

The move to get Kemp was obviously a mistake. I didn't like the HO trade at the time, I didn't like the Kemp acquisition at the time, and they have both proven to be quite bad.

But those have nothing to do with Mallex Smith. Trading Mallex Smith for Gohara was the right decision.

[thewupk]

Apparently you have no idea how small a minority you're in in that case.

I'm pretty sure most front offices besides the Braves believe Kemp is a replacement level player these days.

[thewupk]

The move to get Kemp was obviously a mistake. I didn't like the HO trade at the time, I didn't like the Kemp acquisition at the time, and they have both proven to be quite bad.

But those have nothing to do with Mallex Smith. Trading Mallex Smith for Gohara was the right decision.

I'm not disagreeing with that. Keeping Mallex was an alternative to acquiring Kemp. Mallex is a better player than Kemp at this stage of his career.

[Southcack77]

The only people screaming about Gray are you and the blackjack dealer. When they make that trade, everyone will be happy to kiss your *sses. They're not even being mentioned as remotely close to being the highest bidders. As Southcack correctly pointed out - you guys keep expecting them to do something they haven't done. If they were so desperate to contend, this system would've been emptied a month or two ago.

They were going to have to eat a bad contract regardless of how Kemp performs - would you rather be paying Olivera to hang out at home and accost women?

The best argument for the Kemp trade is that the Braves shed 8-9 million dollars off their 2020 payroll by doing the deal.

But in doing so they ate an additional 12 m in 2017, 11.5 m in 2018, and 10.5m in 2019.

.......

If they can somehow move Kemp and allocate his dollars to something more useful at a low prospect cost then the series of deals could turn out really well, but I have trouble seeing how that's going to happen.

I see Kemp's contract as one of the primary roadblocks to the Braves contending prior to 2020. And I'm not sure that dead money in 2018, 2019, and 2020 might be easier to overcome than 18 million owed to Kemp in 2018 and 2019.

That's tough to say. Kemp gives them a better chance in 2020 than Oliveira would have, that's about all you can say.

[clvclv]

I'm pretty sure most front offices besides the Braves believe Kemp is a replacement level player these days.

Remind us - how many tickets do front offices buy?

[Enscheff]

I'm pretty sure most front offices besides the Braves believe Kemp is a replacement level player these days.

Every single analyst in the baseball universe that isn't affiliated with the Braves understands Kemp is a 0 win player...or worse.

There is a reason the only taker SD could find for Kemp was in exchange for a wife beater that was immediately released. Literally no other team had interest. If the BBraves cut him right now, he wouldn't sign for more than $1M on a minor league deal.

[thewupk]

Remind us - how many tickets do front offices buy?

Are you buying tickets to see Matt Kemp suck?

[Enscheff]

Remind us - how many tickets do front offices buy?

LOL, another classic clv-ism!

FO's don't buy tickets, and numbers people don't win the lottery.

Classics!

[Southcack77]

clv said the alternatives were worse than Kemp. We had better options on the roster when that trade was made.

I feel like the Braves could have still traded Mallex (or kept him) and then picked up an OF like Kemp for less of a commitment.

How to value a clean 2020 payroll?