The Coronavirus, not the beer

[The Chosen One]

Trump ****ed up on this and I have said this. When real data came in we should have shifted immediately but there is so much absurd media spin on this that if Trump announced this we would see endless headlines that Trump wants to kill people.

Then the same amount of deaths would have resulted in long obituaries about their lives and how trump ended the all

Don't pretend this wouldn't have happened.

Because Trump waited too long to do anything, he ended up giving Fauci and Birx more power and influence.

If Trump played this smarter in the beginning, he could have used the CDC, Fauci, Birx as cover for doing your "sensible lockdown" because he would have had the backing of them and the counts wouldn't have been as high.

The CBS reporter was correct, he wasted the entire month of February downplaying this and using Fox News to promote it was the new impeachment hoax.

Trump really has nobody else to blame but himself for this handling, but we know you or he will never ever actually shift blame towards him.

[The Chosen One]

Yes, and with a non-hysterical approach to the lockdown would have addressed all of this. But the #1 expert went from no issue (2/29) to full lockdown. And we all want Trump to listen to the experts right?

We don't actually know what intelligence Fauci was briefed on or if he even knew how bad it was.

If Trump didn't pass along intel from the IC to Governors in February, I really doubt Fauci would have had first hand knowledge of this. It's not like Fauci has an office in Wuhan or Beijing.

It sure would have been nice to have that pandemic team that Trump discarded and that CDC pandemic position in China that he got rid of though.


The president receives confidential briefings that are more classified than the gang of 8 in congress. If Trump was downplaying it for a month after the travel ban, how do you expect Governors and other people to handle this correctly?

Trump muted the CDC after their head went in front of congress and bombed. CDC should have had the lead on this the entire time, with Fauci assisting.

[thethe]

Because Trump waited too long to do anything, he ended up giving Fauci and Birx more power and influence.

If Trump played this smarter in the beginning, he could have used the CDC, Fauci, Birx as cover for doing your "sensible lockdown" because he would have had the backing of them and the counts wouldn't have been as high.

The CBS reporter was correct, he wasted the entire month of February downplaying this and using Fox News to promote it was the new impeachment hoax.

Trump really has nobody else to blame but himself for this handling, but we know you or he will never ever actually shift blame towards him.

His experts were telling him it was no big deal in February.

I hope you continue this argument because its a losing one.

All that will need to be done it play Fauchis interviews and Democrats statements.

Nobody would have done anything different in February and to say otherwise is just ridiculous.

What should have been done is after the original 15 day lockdown we should have shifted to allowing the under 50 no pre-existing conditions population back to work.

Biggest mistake of Trumps presidency and in a normal situation would have cost him re-election .

[thethe]

We don't actually know what intelligence Fauci was briefed on or if he even knew how bad it was.

If Trump didn't pass along intel from the IC to Governors in February, I really doubt Fauci would have had first hand knowledge of this. It's not like Fauci has an office in Wuhan or Beijing.

It sure would have been nice to have that pandemic team that Trump discarded and that CDC pandemic position in China that he got rid of though.

Fake news that has been debunked.

SO now you are assuming that Fauchi didn't get intelligence on a potential pandemic despite being Trumps #1 medical experts and knowing that he was involved in the decision to ban travel from China?

Do you work for CNN?

[Carp]

Mass infections wouldn't hit in the south because of the logistics of each location.

20% exposure might be in effect herd immunity [not actual herd immunity for those that will love to jump on me] for lots of areas.

What logistics? Do people not eat? Not go to work? Not go to school? It was just reported about Smithfield having like 300 cases in it's factory alone and they are in effing South Dakota.

Being more spread out means it takes longer to spread than a city like NYC, not that it won't happen. Especially if the infection is so devastatingly contagious like you say, that it's already infected over half of NYC.

[The Chosen One]

His experts were telling him it was no big deal in February.

How do you go from a serious executive action such as a travel ban at the end of January, to your experts saying it wasn't a big deal the rest of the month?

These things do not align with your defense of trump.

[thethe]

What logistics? Do people not eat? Not go to work? Not go to school? Being more spread out means it takes longer to spread than a city like NYC, not that it won't happen. Especially if the infection is so devastatingly contagious like you say, that it's already infected over half of NYC.

Dont' you realize the virus is effecitvely harmless to a majority of the population and that the main issue is not the virus itself but how fast it spreads?

In a place like NYC that has over 4M people take the subway daily the spread is alarming fast. That is why we saw the numbers that we did in NYC.

In other places the spread would NEVER get to a point where it would reach half of NYC because as the immunity walls form it slows down an already less congested commute.

[Metaphysicist]

Yeah and you still fail to understand how the virus spreads.

It's the same reason you said that berenson tweet was misleading and once I gave it another 5 minutes of thought it was 100% accurate.

Same reason you think the chicago sample is a bad sample to extrapolate antibodies when it isnt.

You are clearly a smart dude but you just aren't thinking clearly.

It's ok. You will gain some emotionally maturity as you age.

Great deflection. You've really given me a lot to chew on, but this has nothing to do with the article which is clearly talking about March.

I'll take your immediate shift to talking about unrelated nonsense as an admission that you just post garbage you don't even read here.

[thethe]

How do you go from a serious executive action such as a travel ban at the end of January, to your experts saying it wasn't a big deal the rest of the month?

These things do not align with your defense of trump.

The whole point of the ban was to eliminate introduction of the virus. It was believed that it was less widespread by Trump and his whole medical expert team. That was the mistake but there is nobody else in that place which would have made a different decision

[nsacpi]

The country is kind of irrelevant as vast swaths did not and will not have mass infection spread based on their own unique logistics.

NYC was easily 50%.

I suspect other areas range from 5-20% and based on what their density and commuting patterns look like will be enough to stop any accelerated growth that threaten hospital systems.

50% of the population will at some point get the virus in the next 12 months. The only sensible approach is to educate who is vulnerable and make antibody testing a priority.

What we did was the opposite of effective from a cumulative perspective when considering what we sacrificed.

The countrywide infection number is relevant to how we reopen the economy. I am curious how many Americans do you think were exposed by mid March. None of us can know for sure, but it's an number that we need some visibility into.

[thethe]

Great deflection. You've really given me a lot to chew on, but this has nothing to do with the article which is clearly talking about March.

I'll take your immediate shift to talking about unrelated nonsense as an admission that you just post garbage you don't even read here.

It wasn't a shift. I just can't continue to explain the same point to someone who clearly doesn't understand.

[The Chosen One]

Fake news that has been debunked.

SO now you are assuming that Fauchi didn't get intelligence on a potential pandemic despite being Trumps #1 medical experts and knowing that he was involved in the decision to ban travel from China?

Do you work for CNN?

What has been debunked exactly?

If he was involved with the decision to travel ban, that doesn't actually mean he received the same intelligence briefings Trump did. We know Azar pleaded to Trump this was a big deal and Trump scoffed at it.

Unlike Trump, Fauci has owned up to some mistakes that were made. That's one of the bigger things that separates the two.

[thethe]

The countrywide infection number is relevant to how we reopen the economy. I am curious how many Americans do you think were exposed by mid March. None of us can know for sure, but it's an number that we need some visibility into.

I don't see how that is relevant. The infection rate in North Dakota might be 5% or less. There is no reason why this should impact how they re-open considering their was almost zero strain on their hospitals.

People die every day guys. It sucks but that is life.

If something like death paralyzes you then you should never be in a position to make important decisions. Grow up.

[thethe]

What has been debunked exactly?

If he was involved with the decision to travel ban, that doesn't actually mean he received the same intelligence briefings Trump did. We know Azar pleaded to Trump this was a big deal and Trump scoffed at it.

Unlike Trump, Fauci has owned up to some mistakes that were made. That's one of the bigger things that separates the two.

Trump is what he is and has major character flaws. We all know this.

But you can continue to speculate he didn't share briefings with Fauchi. I remember similar wild speculation in the Russia thread. That worked out well.

[The Chosen One]

The whole point of the ban was to eliminate introduction of the virus. It was believed that it was less widespread by Trump and his whole medical expert team. That was the mistake but there is nobody else in that place which would have made a different decision

While coming back home to the states a year ago from Greece, I had a 15 hour layover in Moscow. The airport was like 90% Chinese nationals going back home or going to the West.

He banned travel from China. I took a direct flight from Moscow to JFK (with a lot of Ruskis and Chinese nationals aboard). That's just one degree of separation from China.

The virus could have spread here from the eastside (which we now know is true, and that travel from Europe is what's responsible for the northeastern spread). Trump has been bragging about hitting a homer in the first inning, while going 0-3 in his next three at-bats.

[thethe]

While coming back home to the states a year ago from Greece, I had a 15 hour layover in Moscow. The airport was like 90% Chinese nationals going back home or going to the West.

He banned travel from China. I took a direct flight from Moscow to JFK (with a lot of Ruskis and Chinese nationals aboard). That's just one degree of separation from China.

The virus could have spread here from the eastside (which we now know is true, and that travel from Europe is what's responsible for the northeastern spread). Trump has been bragging about hitting a homer in the first inning, while going 0-3 in his next three at-bats.

Thats still fantastic production.

Thanks for the analogy.

[Carp]

Dont' you realize the virus is effecitvely harmless to a majority of the population and that the main issue is not the virus itself but how fast it spreads?

In a place like NYC that has over 4M people take the subway daily the spread is alarming fast. That is why we saw the numbers that we did in NYC.

In other places the spread would NEVER get to a point where it would reach half of NYC because as the immunity walls form it slows down an already less congested commute.

Smithfield. A company in middle of effing South Dakota, just saw 300 of their employees get the virus. But, sure. It's totally harmless to the rest of the population outside of NYC.

[The Chosen One]

I don't see how that is relevant. The infection rate in North Dakota might be 5% or less. There is no reason why this should impact how they re-open considering their was almost zero strain on their hospitals.

People die every day guys. It sucks but that is life.

If something like death paralyzes you then you should never be in a position to make important decisions. Grow up.

Well, you're talking about a state that relies on car travel to get to and fro. It's not like NYC which has the highest volume rail system in the country by far.

Virus transmission is obviously easier on the trains. It would eventually have spread and gotten worse in a big rural state like ND or SD.

[thethe]

Smithfield. A company in middle of effing South Dakota, just saw 300 of their employees get the virus. But, sure. It's totally harmless to the rest of the population outside of NYC.

Its harmless to anyone that doesn't have a pre-existing condition that has been defined repeatedly.

Those are the absolute facts and cannot be dismissed.

And what was the result of those 300?

[The Chosen One]

Its harmless to anyone that doesn't have a pre-existing condition that has been defined repeatedly.

Those are the absolute facts and cannot be dismissed.

And what was the result of those 300?

Let's look at what happens on the Roosevelt.

I think it said 500 of the sailors on-board out of 1500 were infected. Don't know the real data, but we can probably assume most of the sailors on-board are under 50 and healthy and in shape.

1 died already.