The Market for McCann

[PawPawMaxwell]

Where to start? I think the resurggence of Heyward has created a dilema for Wren tho a very positive dilema. Been awhile since weve had a productive leadoff batter. So where this is heading, if Heyward is retained long term then at least one of four big contracts has to go. Uggla CAN be dumped but it will be expensive, at least half will have to be eaten. See how long it took Cubs to divest of Soriano. BJ is unmoveable, Justin can probably be traded. McCann can go either way at this time. Personally, I think the NL shift on him, his aging and physical profile, and cost all add up to him moving on. If the Braves continue and run long thru the playoffs, there will be some HUGE arbitration awards (Kimbrel, Freeman, Johnson and Heyward all will get rich this off season),

[yeezus]

I'd make go up to 16-17M/year for four years plus an option. If he cares about staying in Atlanta that should be good enough. There's always a chance some other team will blow that offer out of the water. We don't have to join them in the craziness.

He better take it if we offer 17 mil.

[Russ2dollas]

I think we'll have to offer 15 for 5 years to get him. He'll get more from the rangers.

I would see if he'd take a front loaded deal. We have some guys that will need to get paid soon. Could we pay McCann 20 million in year 1 and 10 million in year 5 to protect us from the risk?

[bravebonebook]

1. Will BMac want to be remembered for playing with one team his entire career. Those kinds of players are dinosaurs in modern MLB (unfortunately). If so, he'll have to take a 'hometown discount'. For argument's sake, I say he should.
2. Do the Braves need him? Maybe, at the right price but he will assuredly decline in the latter years of his contract. Then do the Braves stay as loyal to him as he was to them if he re-signs? Gentlemen's agreements and the like are dead in modern MLB (even Murph wasn't immune to it. for God's sake).
3. If BMac stays with the Braves, he'll have his jersey retired. Is he the greatest catcher in Braves history? He'd be the only catcher on the 'wall'. I don't think BMac is HOF worthy but definitely Braves hof if he stays. Is that as important to him as it was to Chipper?
4. I don't believe he has to take the largest amount of money offered, a la Glavine. He's made enough (including the next contract he signs) to be set for his life and those of his children. IMO, being known for the value/ highest contract at your position/ etc. is a load of crap. He'll have more money than any of us and could be remembered by every Braves fan like Chipper. Or he could be like most every other ballplayer and get dragged around by the nose by the paycheck!

Heart says he'll discover more important reasons than almighty dollars and re-sign with the Braves. My head says money will remain supreme and he'll sign with the Rangers or Dodgers (who will never stop having enough money to throw at every free agent if they want them).

[PawPawMaxwell]

1. Will BMac want to be remembered for playing with one team his entire career. Those kinds of players are dinosaurs in modern MLB (unfortunately). If so, he'll have to take a 'hometown discount'. For argument's sake, I say he should.
2. Do the Braves need him? Maybe, at the right price but he will assuredly decline in the latter years of his contract. Then do the Braves stay as loyal to him as he was to them if he re-signs? Gentlemen's agreements and the like are dead in modern MLB (even Murph wasn't immune to it. for God's sake).
3. If BMac stays with the Braves, he'll have his jersey retired. Is he the greatest catcher in Braves history? He'd be the only catcher on the 'wall'. I don't think BMac is HOF worthy but definitely Braves hof if he stays. Is that as important to him as it was to Chipper?
4. I don't believe he has to take the largest amount of money offered, a la Glavine. He's made enough (including the next contract he signs) to be set for his life and those of his children. IMO, being known for the value/ highest contract at your position/ etc. is a load of crap. He'll have more money than any of us and could be remembered by every Braves fan like Chipper. Or he could be like most every other ballplayer and get dragged around by the nose by the paycheck!

Heart says he'll discover more important reasons than almighty dollars and re-sign with the Braves. My head says money will remain supreme and he'll sign with the Rangers or Dodgers (who will never stop having enough money to throw at every free agent if they want them).

Your second point is most telling IMO. Braves dont/wont give No Trade contracts. Taking less money would demand that he get a no trade. Who would cave in first.

[chopdrew]

He's gone, and I'm not sure the braves fight that hard to kelp him, since they already have his replacement at the league minimum a couple more years. And lol at gilesfan calling Gattis a black hole. His hole didn't look too black when he was taking your boy Strasburg deep.

[DirkPiggler]

Your second point is most telling IMO. Braves dont/wont give No Trade contracts. Taking less money would demand that he get a no trade. Who would cave in first.

The no trade would only be an issue for one more year. Mac will be a 10/5 guy starting in 2015.

[gilesfan]

He's gone, and I'm not sure the braves fight that hard to kelp him, since they already have his replacement at the league minimum a couple more years. And lol at gilesfan calling Gattis a black hole. His hole didn't look too black when he was taking your boy Strasburg deep.

If McCann leaves, the spot will likely be Bethancourt/Gattis. Bethancourt is a great defender that hasn't put together offensively yet. Gattis hasn't hit a lick since May. Maybe he figures it out, but his lack of on base skills is a big question mark and his batting average is supported by a very low line drive rate. So, yes he does have some pop and maybe that's enough to be acceptable for a catcher. I'm just not convinced that 1 offensive skill makes him a league average hitter.

[PawPawMaxwell]

The no trade would only be an issue for one more year. Mac will be a 10/5 guy starting in 2015.

True enough but 10/5 guys get asked to waive that clause all the time. But with a big enough discount it probably wouldnt be important.

[nsacpi]

True enough but 10/5 guys get asked to waive that clause all the time. But with a big enough discount it probably wouldnt be important.

Have the Braves ever asked a player like Chipper or Smoltz to waive the no trade?

[PawPawMaxwell]

Have the Braves ever asked a player like Chipper or Smoltz to waive the no trade?

I dont know. Do you? But for discussion sake, McCann is not in the same category as Chipper or Smoltz just yet. No HOF credentials if you get my drift.

[nsacpi]

They traded Murphy. But that was a bad team that needed to rebuild.

[PawPawMaxwell]

They traded Murphy. But that was a bad team that needed to rebuild.

They also let Maddux and Glavine walk for a lot less money than the 17M you are wanting to offer McCann.

[gilesfan]

They also let Maddux and Glavine walk for a lot less money than the 17M you are wanting to offer McCann.

Did you account for time value of money?

[nsacpi]

Also Glavine and Maddux were in their late 30s when they left.

[bravebonebook]

I am bracing for the worst. Signing McCann long term is like signing an aging pitcher; both will probably decline significantly before the end of their contract. And I hesitate using Glavine as an example because he was Union-first, take the biggest contract available to prove a point. Atlanta's offer to Glavine would have been up to $40 million if the 4th year option had been accepted but with some money deferred (and greater respect for being with one team forever, IMO). He took the Mets $42 million offer with a 4th year option accepted and bolted for NY. Glavine lost the 'magic' of one team superstar over $2 million, union absurdities and a bruised ego! Thanks for Game 6 in 1995 but he'll NEVER have the same respect and admiration in my book as other Braves.

If BMac leaves for similar reasons or such a small difference in pay then to baseball H*** with him, too.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Did you account for time value of money?

Yes I understand inflation. I also understand the law of diminishing returns. But then again, it is all speculation on our part. But while on speculation: The veneration of Chipper being a life long member of the Braves is well deserved, but ponder on this for a moment. If ARod and Boras had accepted Schuerholz offer of 17M per in 2001, do you think Chipper would have been given his big deal a couple months later??

[Bravephoton]

I'd make go up to 16-17M/year for four years plus an option. If he cares about staying in Atlanta that should be good enough. There's always a chance some other team will blow that offer out of the water. We don't have to join them in the craziness.

McCann at 16M is too much for us. Especially with Uggla still on the books and BJ holding down the massive Ks in CF. Gattis can do the job behind the plate. I do not see a big dropoff there especially once Gattis learns to adjust to the strike zone. You are looking at an additional 15-16 million to use elsewhere by using Gattis over McCann.

This is business and the best business decision it to let McCann walk.

[gilesfan]

McCann at 16M is too much for us. Especially with Uggla still on the books and BJ holding down the massive Ks in CF. Gattis can do the job behind the plate. I do not see a big dropoff there especially once Gattis learns to adjust to the strike zone. You are looking at an additional 15-16 million to use elsewhere by using Gattis over McCann.

This is business and the best business decision it to let McCann walk.

Explain how there isn't much of a dropoff between Gattis and MCCann

[Dunit24]

I dont understand the concern with Gattis. I just think hes fatigued. Its been a long yr for him starting with winter ball. He made it look easy early on. He will adjust and become a 25-30 HR hitter if we decide to start him at catcher next season. My worries with him come on the defensive side.

I wouldnt go as far as saying Gattis is better or even equal to McCann, but if Gattis hits .250 w/15-20 HR, 80 RBI, id take that over paying McCann 15-18 million a season to hit .280, 20-25 HR, 80 RBI.

I just dont believe Gattis is as bad as he has looked since early on. If someone wants to think that, fine, but I think its obvious Gattis is going to be a big time power bat for us for a long time.