I don't like short rest. For anyone. There are a few examples of it working (Beckett comes to mind) but many, many more where a stud runs out of gas. We're better off with Maholm/Garcia. Actually, we're better off with Wood, but he's tired.Originally Posted by nsacpi
Garcia is an option to start because Wood is needed more in the pen. Our starting pitching is still one of the strongest in the league top to bottom. So your argument doesn't hold much water.
It's hilarious how Wood wasn't even on the radar despite an very impressive ST. But somehow we were supposed to know in ST that Graham and Gilmartin would both get injured and pitch poorly even when they returned.
We had plenty of depth. I would argue we actually had more quality depth than any other Braves team of the last 7 yrs or more, sans the 2009.
And if Huddy didn't have a freak injury then none of this would matter. The pitching depth was 100% fine. Maybe Wren should have considered something after Huddy got hurt but at the start of the season there was nothing wrong with it.
Natural Immunity Croc
Everyone just HOLD UP,
Garcia starting a playoff game? says who? When did this happen?
Ivermectin Man
Wren did take a bit of a chance in terms of not having better pitching depth in AAA.
Our AAA starting rotation at the start of the year included Gilmartin, Hale, Poveda, Daniel Rodriguez and Tom Corcoran.
Not the greatest group. But not awful either. Gilmartin and Hale were legitimate prospects ready for that level. Poveda was a good gamble, once highly regarded as a prospect but coming back from an arm injury. Rodriguez had done well in the Mexican League the year before and intrigued a lot of us going into the season. For the fifth spot Wren could have done better than Corcoran, who was never going to help us.
As for the AAA pen, at the start of the season it consisted of Buchter, Hughes, Flande, McCurry, Carpenter, Obispo, Rasmus, Russell.
I think this was a weaker group than the starters. Carpenter was a find. Obispo has a good arm and could potentially have been a good pitcher for us. Ditto Rasmus. The rest was flotsam and jetsam.
We had some good luck in the form of Wood's rapid development. But if that had not happened, I wonder how Hale and Poveda would have done. Those two had solid seasons in AAA.
Last edited by nsacpi; 09-25-2013 at 08:05 AM.
Wood is not needed more in the pen. Would you move Medlen to the pen and replace him with Loe? He's more needed in the pen!!!!
Come the post season 7th inning men aren't as important as they are in the regular season. Sure it would be nice if we had the guys to put Wood in the pen and be happy, and honestly I'm almost 100% certain that Fredi is starting Garcia over Wood not because of the BP need, but because of veteran experience. Since only Medlen has post season experience and that was 1 game. And to me there's nothing dumber than giving someone a spot just because they pitched in the playoffs before.
Wood should be starting in the post season. Period. Even if Avilan and Walden are struggling now, you can't bet on them continuing to struggle. If Wood pitches every game of the post season, they all go to max games, he would throw 19 innings. Same scenario he'd make 4 starts. He easily could throw more innings for this team as a starter. And because of scheduling we could still use him as an occasional reliever. Wood should not be starting.
End rant.
That said we've sustained injuries and crap play from Graham, Gilmartin, Beachy, Hudson, Maholm, and more and if Fredi wasn't a twit we'd have a very strong though young playoff rotation.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
comparing Medlen to Wood is silly. Medlen is our game 1 starter. Wood would have been the 4th game starter. You could argue that a relief pitcher has just as much if not more impact on a playoff series as a #4 starter.
Natural Immunity Croc
Just to take a little bit more of a trip on the Back in Time Machine, I think the "incumbents" for the pen coming into spring training were: Kimbrel, Walden, EOF, Venters, Avilan, Gearrin and Martinez.
Venters started the year on the DL and missed the entire season. His spot in the pen was taken by Varvaro. So technically Varvaro can be viewed as part of the AAA depth even though he has been on the major league roster the whole season.
Ayala was acquired from Baltimore, replacing Martinez who went to the DL. Martinez eventually needed shoulder surgery and never returned.
EOF went down, and effectively was replaced by Carpenter, leaving us for a time with Avilan as the sole lefty.
There was also a period when Wood was in the pen. Not sure if this coincided with Walden's time on the DL. Ayala also had a long stretch on the DL.
Another event of note was Gearrin succumbing to a period of extremely high usage. He lost effectiveness and was sent down. But he never pitched in AAA due to tendinitis in his shoulder.
Finally, there was the deadline acquisition of Downs.
Last edited by nsacpi; 09-25-2013 at 09:20 AM.
Braves1976 (09-25-2013)
Sorry that's not the case. If Wood was closing, maybe. Or if he was the 8th man even. But he'll be a 7th/6th man. Odds are games that Minor and Medlen pitch he won't see action. I was obviously making an exaggerated statement with Medlen as I don't expect him to move to the pen but it's a similar thought process.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
I'm with Zito, at least that it is very questionable as to whether we would be better served using Wood as a 4th starter or out of the pen. What is more valuable? To have him available every game in an effort to get the ball to Kimbrel or to pitch 6-7 innings in a possible elimination game?
If it means anything, Garcia started for the yankees in the playoffs last year and gave up 3 ER in 5 1/3 innings. He's made 10 career post season starts.
The ability to build a cheap, effective bullpen has been one of Wren's strengths (credit Roger McDowell, too). It's a shame that we may end up suffering from a lack of effective BP arms heading into the postseason. I'm sorry that we weren't able to find another good arm at the deadline, and that we weren't more proactive in bringing in someone to at least take the load off the arms of Avilan, Carpenter, etc.
I think the plan for the playoffs is to turn the game over to the pen early and to maximize the platoon advantage.
In any sort of close game we could see two pitchers used per inning--one lefty and one righty--to maximize that advantage. Avilan, Downs, Wood all used as LOOGYs. Ayala, Carpenter, and Varvaro all used as ROOGYs.
What I think it will be (different than I would like):
Medlen
Minor
Teheran
Garcia
Kimbrel
Wood
Carpenter
Downs
Ayala
Maholm
Varvaro
Avilan/Walden (the one who makes it to the end of the season)
Heyward
Upton
Freeman
Johnson
McCann
Gattis
Simmons
EJ
P
Laird, BJ, Uggla, Schafer, Reed (if he is healthy--Janish, if he is not)
Mostly agree. My one disagreement is Maholm being preferred over one of the relievers. I think Maholm will not be on the active roster if everyone is healthy.
I think you are exactly right. We saw Fredi do this a bit last night when Wood was brought in just to face the LHers.
Another benefit to pulling the starter early is being able to pinch hit for the #9 slot an additional time if needed. Let's say Medlen is due up in the 5th or 6th with a couple guys on base. I would argue the Braves BP is good enough (and can match up well enough with all the LH arms) that Fredi could PH in that scenario and then mix and match the last 3/4 innings.
I'm pretty sure Garcia came up in the 5th or 6th last night with a couple guys on base. He was allowed to hit and then pitched only 1 more inning. I really hope that trade of 1 AB for 1 extra inning pitched doesn't happen in the playoffs. None of the starters are good enough to let them hit in a pivotal situation at the cost of a PHer getting an AB and turning it over to the BP.
Last edited by Enscheff; 09-25-2013 at 01:17 PM.
I think I would be fine with Garcia starting game 4, he has certainly pitched well so far but I would have a quick hook in that game. If he blows it in the 7th inning that will be all on Fredi. I like having Wood in the pen as the pen has been shaky lately.
He isn't really getting the spot over someone. I just think they will go with an extra man out there and don't think both Avilan and Walden will be ready. Maholm has also done really well vs first batters faced, so he could play a role in a big spot late vs one batter.
I asked this in the GameThread last night and didn't see a response so I'll bring it up again. Is it safe to assume we've seen the last of Walden this year? Since he returned from injury on September 12th, he's only made 3 appearances, and his last was over a week ago (Sep 17th). He's also given up 5 ER in those 3 games.
He must have suffered a setback or else they would be attempting to get him back into form.
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