Is that not the type of accountability we need?Originally Posted by njc108
Is that not the type of accountability we need?
thank you weso1!
That won't ever happen. It's always someone else's fault.
I 100% agree that there are ramifications to past systematic racism. But the word ramification implies that the systematic racism is no longer present.
But we're talking about today. What specific laws, regulations, policies, etc. in our criminal justice system are systematically racist? The crack cocaine law, despite its good intent, was an example of a law that disproportionately effected blacks because that specific drug was/is used more by black people. That law was rightfully changed in 2011. So what specific laws disproportionately effect race as opposed to just income level, with the understanding that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime.
Grumping about condescension is pretty rich by the way.
Last edited by weso1; 07-10-2016 at 07:03 PM.
thank you weso1!
(a) No it doesn't. A ramification—an observable consequence of something—can exist even in the presence of its antecedent's continuing.
(b) I never said "there are ramifications to past systematic racist" (though there are). I said that currently people of color face systemic racism, and further added that this because of our national history, which includes much worse and much more intentional versions of system-wide racially-motivated oppression. Slavery was a big ****ing deal; Jim Crow was a big ****ing deal. We, as a nation, have still not escaped the effects of these centuries of outright oppression, even if—by and large (and I'm giving our national collective a lot of credit and good faith here)—most people today don't mean to oppress anyone else.
Asking for "specific" laws sort of belies the whole systemic quality of all this (and is also why I specifically said that "there aren't easy answers to this problem").
When you deny personhood to an out-group for centuries, then allow their humanity but deny them basic human rights for another century, you don't think it's going to take a little longer than a single generation to get out from behind the eight-ball? Especially when there are plenty of bad policies—both well-meaning and nefarious—that help keep them there? I mean, you mentioned one example, that you admit wasn't even "rightfully changed" until a mere five years ago (and by the way you omit that this change did nothing immediately for all the people wrongfully imprisoned under said law).
Why, because I'm disputing your blanket and absolute claims? I'm not the one denying the validity of, like, a fifth of the population's daily-lived disadvantages.
Last edited by jpx7; 07-10-2016 at 09:26 PM.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
Julio3000 (07-11-2016)
Gerrymandering, a.k.a. the systematic denying of the fair share of governmental access and power to a whole race of people, is also a big ****ing deal.
jpx7 (07-11-2016)
Laws as written may not be racist in and of themselves, but I don't think that anyone can argue convincingly that the enforcement of those laws and machinations of the criminal justice system have been applied evenly across racial lines.
jpx7 (07-11-2016)
As mentioned earlier.... when you need cops to generate revenue... they will prey on the poor and uneducated.
That in and of itself disadvantages minorities
50PoundHead (07-11-2016), jpx7 (07-11-2016), The Chosen One (07-11-2016)
I'm not going to crap on public defenders, but if you can't afford a lawyer, that's what you're going to get and the workload faced by public defenders and their relative lack of resources puts their clients at a distinct disadvantage. Hence, a lot of pleading out that puts a blot on the defendant's record making it more difficult to get a good job and the cycle continues.
It's a cycle of disadvantage by a thousand paper-cuts.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
Julio3000 (07-11-2016)
If not for the war on drugs the public defenders wouldn't be over worked. You waI've your right to a speedy trial. My friend was set to spend 1 to 1.5 years in jail awaiting trial because he couldn't afford a lawyer for case so bad it didn't even pass the grand jury. This man has 6 kids and had to use his income tax refund to pay a lawyer 5k to end that ****. The detectives knew he was innocent but decided to issue a warrant specifically because they knew he couldn't afford bail and that the only jail time he would serve would be while waiting trial.
"Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.
It’s over."
Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.
Not necessarily for racist reasons though. You and sturg are both correct that the justice system favors those who can afford better lawyers, and it turns out that blacks on average make less money. The justice system might be systematically prejudiced against poor people but I still haven't seen any evidence that it's systematically racist. I want to see evidence of a particular system that is racist.
And to jpx's point, I just disagree with his definition of systematic racism. I don't think the lingering fog of Jim Crow is systematic racism. Jim Crow by the way was systematic racism. I do believe that there are racist people and potentially policies that negatively effect certain races. But I need evidence. I need you to show me how the system is racist. And just saying there aren't easy answers isn't good enough.
Last edited by weso1; 07-11-2016 at 03:37 PM.
thank you weso1!
This obsession over black criminals is weird and actually not very helpful. If you really want to help black people the goal should be to do away with communities based on skin color. The way to do this is is to significantly reduce poverty in black communities. I'm just going to post this whole section of a study about poverty. I think it's very inciteful.
Why Are We Having Trouble Fighting Poverty and Increasing Mobility?
Why has it been so difficult to reduce poverty and increase economic mobility? We now spend around a trillion dollars a year on programs for poor and low-income families and individuals.[5] Until recently, spending increased almost every year. But as spending increased, the nation neither reduced poverty by much nor increased economic mobility. Why, despite all this spending, have we made so little progress?
Most analysts would agree that the dissolution of the two-parent family, little progress in improving the educational achievement of the poor relative to that of the more advantaged, and the decline of work among men are major factors in accounting for our lack of progress.[6] More specifically:
An ever rising share of American children live in female-headed families, the family type in which children are five times as likely to be poor as children in married-couple families and in which their development is negatively affected.[7]
In addition, until recent years, more and more children were born outside marriage, in most cases instantly creating the family form in which children are likely to be poor.[8]
Although education levels have improved modestly, the education gap between kids from poor and rich families has increased substantially, making it difficult for children from poor families to close the income gap between themselves and children from rich families.[9]
Although work rates among women, especially low-income and poorly educated women, have shown improvement, the work rate for men has declined over the last four decades and wages for men in the lower half of the wage distribution have been stagnant.[10]
A comprehensive strategy to fight poverty and increase mobility would attack these causes on three fronts by aiming to increase the share of children growing up in married-couple families, in part by delaying unplanned births; to increase the educational achievement and years of schooling completed among children from poor families; and to increase work rates among the poor. In this testimony, I confine my attention to increasing work rates, an important determinant of poverty and mobility that this Subcommittee could actually do something about. I begin with the example of welfare reform.
link
thank you weso1!
If I read this correctly Wes, you (the Brookings article) just made a compelling argument for not only Planned Parenthood, but neighborhood sponsored Day Care and investment in rebuilding crumbling cities..
.
Last edited by 57Brave; 07-11-2016 at 05:16 PM.
The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.
and they make less money because they make terrible life choices and should be responsible for the consequences of those choices, just like everybody else. any lefty bull**** artist who tries to blame the "struggle" of black folks on mean old whitey is a pathetic waste of carbon and would be better off shooting themselves in the effing face.and it turns out that blacks on average make less money.
most of you ***gots don't even know **** about black people, I grew up in a poor black neighborhood, they treat each other like dog crap. cheat the govt, ignore their children , spend their money on big ticket vanity items then blame whitey for all their problems. They get exactly what they deserve based on their life choices. just like everybody else.
I am leaving this place, full of nothing but pathetic candy a$$ pussies and jesus freak morons who hate facts. this is ,by far, the least intelligent braves forum I have ever been on. I hope most of you are murdered by your spouses in your sleep as the world will be better for it.
so yeah, please kill yourselves.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"- Tom Waits
Gotta love a good rage quit.
thank you weso1!
Eric Boehlert @EricBoehlert · 4h4 hours ago
basically every news story covered on CNN this afternoon revolves around a gun shooting.
The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.
Forever Fredi
jpx7 (07-11-2016)
Why? What did that nut say this time? Nevermind. I don't want to know.
bravos4evr your lying. I dont think you truly know anyone black or ever lived around black people.
Mr. Brown on Monday urged protesters—young black men in particular—to join his force to help improve relations with minority communities.
“Become part of the solution. Serve your community,” Mr. Brown said. “We’re hiring. Get off that protest line and get an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood and we will help you resolve some of the problems you’re protesting about.”
link
thank you weso1!
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