2016 Baseball Hall of Fame Discussion

[smootness]

One thing that you posted before shows that you have some inkling of the voter mentality. That was how certain voters will not vote first ballot for anybody, which surprised me with Jr's vote total. Good for him.

Nevertheless, many if not most of them go by precendents, which you probably know. Why would there suddenly be a movement to elect him, strictly based on being "greatest CF"? They went through that with Willie Mays, who had other credentials. Guys, I tried to show you the mentality. Andruw Jones wasn't a league leader in any important offensive category. The voters ask themselves that question about being the best of the best.

SAV brought up Mussina. Pitching in NY definitely raised his profile, but didn't his vote total just decline? That may or may not be a harbinger. Sutton and Niekro had to wait, even with 300 wins. With Sutton, voters surmised that he was never the staff ace on a lot of really good Dodger teams with Koufax and Drydale in front of him. Niekro had the losses going against him on a lot of really poor Braves teams.

Besides the defense, there's nothing really helping the cause for Andruw Jones. Again, if they'd won in '96, he would've won the series MVP. If he had tailed off dramatically in his last year with the Braves and though his Dodgers contract. You guys pretend like it didn't happen, as if it can just be factored out like an anomoly. It sticks out like a sore thumb. He sucked major ass wind at the end. Voters might well be suspicious of enhancements because of the drop, and he had other off field issues, which was referenced in the other article.

I specifically said that I seriously doubt he gets in. I'm just saying that he should.

[The Chosen One]

Another interesting thing to consider, we haven't even retired Andruw's number, which is a travesty. Imagine if he got voted into the Hall of Fame and we hadn't retired his number? Talk about embarassing

Because he hasn't retired yet.

He's still playing ball in Japan and hasn't filed his retirement papers with MLB.

[clvclv]

Even if he did tomorrow, it'd be 5 years from the last time he played a MLB game.

Glavine recovered from surgery in 2009, the Braves had him rehab all the way up to the last minute then released him and called up Hanson instead. That's why he was eligible the same year as Maddux when Maddux's last game was in 2008. If Smoltz had called it quits, it would have been likely to have seen the Trinity + Bobby in the same year.

And I believe with managers, if you're over 65 you can be in the hall immediately without the waiting period if you're officially retired.

Druw's last game in the majors was 2012 (same as Chippers). He's been trying to make a comeback in the MLB but nobody is asking for his services atm. So he'd be eligible same year. He's been playing in Japan but that won't count as service time when Hall of Fame eligibility comes into play. Same as MLB not acknowledging Ichiro's Japanese statistics which the Hall also likely won't either.

Don't know what I was thinking. DUH.

Long week - I need a drink!!!

[clvclv]

I specifically said that I seriously doubt he gets in. I'm just saying that he should.

I'm on the fence to be honest. I want him in, but I wasn't entirely sure he deserves to get in UNTIL...

I caught the tail-end of Casey Stern and Cliff Floyd's chat with Mike Cameron yesterday afternoon on XM. As others have mentioned, his overall offensive numbers scream Hall Of Very Good - quite possibly Hall Of Very Very Good when you think about that kind of power from a CF. Then I realized that the early part of the conversation that I missed was obviously centered around Junior and his election. Really funny to hear a Mutts fan (Stern) bring it up, but Casey asked if Mike wanted to name the best defensive CFs during his playing years. Never one to pull a punch, he tooted his own horn (and should have IMO), mentioned Edmonds, said Beltran was really good early on, and might've mentioned one or two others before saying "and of course Kenny was "up there".

Casey then prodded him and asked "what about Andruw Jones and all those Gold Gloves?" Cam then opened it up and said that it's not just about the hardware - that Druw was like Ozzie and that's where all discussions have to start and end and that he was simply the best he'd EVER seen. He mentioned how amazingly shallow he played, mentioned that the true greats at the position had that complete lack of fear of the wall that Druw had when going back on balls, and said that he had an extra gear that NOBODY else had.

Them's awfully big words coming from someone who was universally thought of as one of the best in the game for quite a few years in my book. He even mentioned that he sometimes wondered if the fact was lost on everyone that the guy they'd been talking about as one of the best ever on both sides of the ball never made a peep when people around the game never even gave Junior's defense lip-service when he came over to the Reds and Druw's name came up.

Cameron's words combined with his power production at what's typically been a non-power position - and the fact that there were a lot of times that he flashed the ability to be a much better all-around hitter when he didn't HAVE TO hit balls over the fence as Chipper's protector - I'm convinced he belongs. Everybody always slobbered over his power, but if you watched him REALLY closely for most of his career you'd have realized that he had the ability to excel in the 3-hole IF Bobby would've decided to let Chipper protect Druw instead. Druw became a cleanup hitter/masher because that's what Bobby wanted him to be.

[smootness]

Again, Andruw is the greatest defensive player of all time at any position. Even if you only concede that he's the greatest defensive CF ever, or in the top 3-4 at any position, that alone still puts him in. The fact that he was also good offensively, especially relative to his position, and he absolutely belongs.

That article, again, basically says he doesn't belong because there are only a few HOF CFs with a worse offensive profile. And to me, the fact that there are any HOF CFs with a worse offensive profile should guarantee him entrance.

He probably won't get in because of his batting average and his lack of longevity, but he is a HOFer without a doubt in my book. If Craig Biggio is a HOFer, then Andruw Jones is.

[Knucksie]

Check this out:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem2a.shtml

The overwhelming majority of all OF's elected to the HOF have come from Veterans Committee. Only 29 OF's have been elected by BBWAA vote in the history of the game.

[The Chosen One]

Check this out:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem2a.shtml

The overwhelming majority of all OF's elected to the HOF have come from Veterans Committee. Only 29 OF's have been elected by BBWAA vote in the history of the game.

And all the ones in the last 15 years have been from the Writers. So if anything, if Andruw doesn't make it from the writers, his chances improve with the veterans?

And what's weird is Andre Dawson isn't even listed on there.

[Prikichi]

And did he smile after he struck out asking girls to come home?

Need to know if he cared about paying for girl's college as much as he did nonchalantly catching balls in CF.
[MENTION=36]Prikichi[/MENTION]

He's been back on the island for the past 2-3 months now, I've bumped into him a few times and even took a picture with him once. Rumor going around these parts is that he left (divorced?) his wife and kids in Atlanta and he's banging this 21 year old girl now.

[rico43]

He's been back on the island for the past 2-3 months now, I've bumped into him a few times and even took a picture with him once. Rumor going around these parts is that he left (divorced?) his wife and kids in Atlanta and he's banging this 21 year old girl now.

The kind of rumor which has no place on this board. Unless she works at Hooters.

[The Chosen One]

He's been back on the island for the past 2-3 months now, I've bumped into him a few times and even took a picture with him once. Rumor going around these parts is that he left (divorced?) his wife and kids in Atlanta and he's banging this 21 year old girl now.

So he is smiling these days. And that's pretty cool you can randomly run into him more than once. I wonder how feels about being the trendsetter for guys like Andrus, Albies, Andrelton. Also wonder how he feels about Atl trading andy.

[Julio3000]

In the interest of full disclosure, if I was paid like that, I would be on the island, too. Hope any potential Hall of Fame voter feels the same way.

[Prikichi]

Congratz to Andruw for the Braves HOF nod. Here's a link with all his milestone HRs.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/83yalacag...QXW4MzTc_54TVa

Enjoy!