2016-2017 Off-Season Thread

[GovClintonTyree]

I guess it depends on the other offers they recieve. They seem pretty motivated to move him. A deal highlighted by Albies and Newcombe is certainly a good start for any player.

Not that I would make him completely off limits, but if we could get him without giving up Albies then Coppy would be some form of demigod.

Newcombe, Albies, Inciarte?

[Chico]

I don't think we'll get Sale, but I think we'll get a controllable starter to team with Julio and Folty. We probably have certain players we deem expendable and making the rounds to see who will say Yes.

I'd actually want Quintana over Sale.

[chop2chip]

Actually, I know what one major piece of the deal has to be - Inciarte. And that would hurt a lot. So how confident do you feel in the development of Mallex Smith?

Tough call.

Why would Chicago do that? They want to rebuild with younger players with more control. Inciarte doesn't really fix that problem. Besides, they have one of the few CF's in baseball that are better than Inciarte.

[UNCBlue012]

I don't think we'll get Sale, but I think we'll get a controllable starter to team with Julio and Folty. We probably have certain players we deem expendable and making the rounds to see who will say Yes.

I'd actually want Quintana over Sale.

I'd love Quintana. He'd cost a lot, but not as much i'd guess.

[GovClintonTyree]

Why would Chicago do that? They want to rebuild with younger players with more control. Inciarte doesn't really fix that problem. Besides, they have one of the few CF's in baseball that are better than Inciarte.

Haven't they decided to play Eaton in right? And Inciarte's still young with four years of control.

[Chico]

I'd love Quintana. He'd cost a lot, but not as much i'd guess.

Quintana has 4 years, which is pretty desirable. You'd have Julio and Quintana for an average of $18M a year combined for the next 4 years. That would give us time to develop the young guns.

[Chico]

Haven't they decided to play Eaton in right? And he's still young with four years of control.

Yeah, talk is they're wanting to move Eaton to RF.

[Carp]

Newcombe, Albies, Inciarte?

I think that's closer. But would likely still have to add another big piece or two. I could definitely see this being a scenario like the Swanson deal, where we trade one of this past year's first rounders, like Anderson or Wentz.

[smootness]

Newcombe, Albies, Inciarte?

That would just be so shortsighted, IMO. We would lose as much as about 5-6 WAR on this year's team because Mallex and Jace aren't replacing much of the value of Albies and Inciarte. So even if Sale continues to be awesome, that's not much of a net gain, and you lose all of Albies' and Newcombs' futures.

[clvclv]

Where's Enscheff at? Clearly this report must be false. Or just the Braves making their "due diligence."

Amirite??

I'm typically one who comes up with all these hopeful deals that he hates, but unless Chicago will take far less than I think they would I hope this is just "Hot Stove talk" as well. Heyman pointing out that we have the pieces to get it done really isn't significant IMO. Everyone around the game knows we have the pieces to get it done.

I'm afraid I agree with thewupk - I'm not sure we're close enough to sell out for that "last piece" just yet. If we could get an "Ace" for ONE of our premium arms and another piece or two not named Albies or Maitan, sure I'd do it. I'm just not including multiple premium arms (Newcomb/Fried/Toussaint/Allard/Soroka/Anderson/Wentz/Muller) and core pieces like Inciarte or Albies to get it done because doing so takes away pieces we'd need to win now even if we added an "Ace'.

[GovClintonTyree]

I think that's closer. But would likely still have to add another big piece or two. I could definitely see this being a scenario like the Swanson deal, where we trade one of this past year's first rounders, like Anderson or Wentz.

Okay. But no more. That's a rich deal that makes sense for them and we can still afford it. And then we have a bonafide ace at the top.

[smootness]

Okay. But no more. That's a rich deal that makes sense for them and we can still afford it. And then we have a bonafide ace at the top.

But why are we giving up two major league pieces to get him? If we're getting Sale, we're obviously trying to compete right now. And giving up Inciarte and Albies hurts your ability to compete right now.

[GovClintonTyree]

I'm typically one who comes up with all these hopeful deals that he hates, but unless Chicago will take far less than I think they would I hope this is just "Hot Stove talk" as well. Heyman pointing out that we have the pieces to get it done really isn't significant IMO. Everyone around the game knows we have the pieces to get it done.

I'm afraid I agree with thewupk - I'm not sure we're close enough to sell out for that "last piece" just yet. If we could get an "Ace" for ONE of our premium arms and another piece or two not named Albies or Maitan, sure I'd do it. I'm just not including multiple premium arms (Newcomb/Fried/Toussaint/Allard/Soroka/Anderson/Wentz/Muller) and core pieces like Inciarte or Albies to get it done because doing so takes away pieces we'd need to win now even if we added an "Ace'.

I think you're going to have to give up something premium. He's Chris Sale. If you believe Smith is a reasonable replacement for Inciarte - and as good as Ender is, he's not irreplaceable - and you think you've got other options at 2B (and I do) - then I think you have to strongly consider this deal.

There was a lot of anticipation for our pitchers coming up in 2016. How did that work out?

I DO consider multiple premium arms and players, if I think Chris Sale puts us in the hunt. And while I understand it might be better if we were a year further along, I still make a deal if I can live with it (and obviously, I'm more inclined to part with good stuff than you are, which is cool).

[GovClintonTyree]

But why are we giving up two major league pieces to get him? If we're getting Sale, we're obviously trying to compete right now. And giving up Inciarte and Albies hurts your ability to compete right now.

Albies isn't here yet. Do I think I have other options at 2B? I do. Enough to deal Albies? Enh....I know. Tough call.

[GovClintonTyree]

That would just be so shortsighted, IMO. We would lose as much as about 5-6 WAR on this year's team because Mallex and Jace aren't replacing much of the value of Albies and Inciarte. So even if Sale continues to be awesome, that's not much of a net gain, and you lose all of Albies' and Newcombs' futures.

Mebbe so. Pull back one of Inciarte and Albies, restructure the deal, perhaps.

Remember, though, CHX gives up 15-18 WAR, too.

[smootness]

Albies isn't here yet. Do I think I have other options at 2B? I do. Enough to deal Albies? Enh....I know. Tough call.

But he can be considered a major league piece; he'll be up as soon as he's healthy. And either he is good right away, or we're hurting at 2B anyway. Jace is not enough, and Demeritte is still a ways away and a big risk.

[GovClintonTyree]

Yeah, talk is they're wanting to move Eaton to RF.

He played 121 games there this year, vs. 48 in CF.

[smootness]

Mebbe so. Pull back one of Inciarte and Albies, restructure the deal, perhaps.

Remember, though, CHX gives up 15-18 WAR, too.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's an unfair deal, I'm just saying it wouldn't make a lot of sense for us. I just don't think we're close enough to say, 'Alright, get an ace to put us over the top,' and doing so destroys a good chunk of the rebuild and worsens your long-term outlook.

[GovClintonTyree]

Yeah, I'm not saying it's an unfair deal, I'm just saying it wouldn't make a lot of sense for us. I just don't think we're close enough to say, 'Alright, get an ace to put us over the top,' and doing so destroys a good chunk of the rebuild and worsens your long-term outlook.

Okay, I think I agree. I'm guessing the one ML piece they would need would be Inciarte, not Albies. So now it's maybe Inciarte, Newcombe, two more pitchers? Or Demeritte? He'd be interesting. Some really like him, others don't.

[clvclv]

I think you're going to have to give up something premium. He's Chris Sale. If you believe Smith is a reasonable replacement for Inciarte - and as good as Ender is, he's not irreplaceable - and you think you've got other options at 2B (and I do) - then I think you have to strongly consider this deal.

There was a lot of anticipation for our pitchers coming up in 2016. How did that work out?

I DO consider multiple premium arms and players, if I think Chris Sale puts us in the hunt. And while I understand it might be better if we were a year further along, I still make a deal if I can live with it (and obviously, I'm more inclined to part with good stuff than you are, which is cool).

These are the main points - to me - that would keep me from pulling the trigger.

I'm pretty high on Mallex compared to some, but he's a substantial downgrade from Inciarte. No, Albies isn't here "yet", but Jace is a considerable downgrade from him as well. Your point about the anticipation and expectations for guys like Wisler and Blair and the fact that they fell short should (again JMO) make the brass even more hesitant to go "all-in" just yet.

Again, I'm far from unwilling to part with serious talent. If something like Newcomb/Wisler or Blair/Mallex/Demeritte or Riley gets it done, I wouldn't bat an eye. I'm just not willing to back the truck up for for 3 years of Chris Sale when we don't have "sure things" that will produce at 2B, 3B, and behind the plate. If that package isn't enough for Sale, tell them they can have it for Quintana or offer a little different version of it to Tampa Bay for Archer.

I'm just not sold enough on Sale with all his question marks - size, durability, and makeup after his blow up last summer - to mortgage the future for him when we still have as many question marks as we do.