Trades/acquisitions

[MadduxFanII]

I think Freddie absolutely wants to stay in Atlanta. Will that stop him from signing with the Angels if they offer him five years and $140 million? I very much doubt it.

[DirkPiggler]

I think Freddie absolutely wants to stay in Atlanta. Will that stop him from signing with the Angels if they offer him five years and $140 million? I very much doubt it.

He'll probably give the Braves right of first refusal. Maybe even a tiny discount on AAV, or an easily achievable vesting option for the 5th year instead of five guaranteed. Maybe.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I took Jaws suggestion. Started at page 58 and by page 60 laughing so hard I had to quit. Very entertaining but couldnt help going back to last off season where Im sure some of the same ones with derision for the Rosario, Duvall and Pederson deals were some of the sames ones screaming for AA to sign them last off season. Soler deal wasnt done by page 60.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I think Freddie absolutely wants to stay in Atlanta. Will that stop him from signing with the Angels if they offer him five years and $140 million? I very much doubt it.

much more concerned with what Preller may do. Hes made no secret of wanting rid of Hosmer and Myers. If he can dump their contracts that would pretty much pay for 2 years of FF and add in their pitching staff coming healthy.

[Enscheff]

Horsehide had a few Freeman-to-the-Astros suggestions back in 2015 or 2016, some of which were reasonable and some of which were conceptually outside the solar system. I remember one guy he really loved was A.J. Reed (all 275 pounds of him). I don't want to rip on Horsehide too much. He wanted a more radical rebuild and a case can be made that more dismantling could (and perhaps should) have been done. The team grew up in a hurry and projections are difficult.

The idea of moving Freeman during the rebuild wasn't a bad idea. In fact, it was a very reasonable idea. I have no issue with anyone who thought the Braves should unload a 1B at his peak during a rebuild.

The problem I had with HH's obsession was his insistence on doubling down on the "team in purgatory" nonsense after the Braves were quite clearly a good team capable of winning a title. At that point, a person should acknowledge the known facts have changed, and keeping Freeman worked out for the best. It doesn't mean the original premise was wrong (it never was), but new information should cause views and opinions to change.

Now he put himself in a position where he continued to double down on the opinion that the Braves would never win with Freeman on the roster, almost to the point where he must be cheering for them to lose. That's a crappy place to put yourself as a fan due to your own stubbornness.

[Enscheff]

much more concerned with what Preller may do. Hes made no secret of wanting rid of Hosmer and Myers. If he can dump their contracts that would pretty much pay for 2 years of FF and add in their pitching staff coming healthy.

Preller is on the typical GM train out of town. The penultimate stop for that train is dumping blame on the manager and firing him. When that doesn't work out, and the Padres still haven't done anything the next 1-2 years, Preller will take the fall. Then the Padres will hire a new GM to clean up Preller's mess and rebuild.

So I could absolutely see Preller dumping cash on Freeman or any other FA in an effort to save his job. GMs routinely write checks they won't be around to cash, which is a big part of the reason why AA's approach is so great to see.

[The Chosen One]

Apparently we're just going to load up on former good slugging OFers and hope 1 of them figures it out.

how about all 3

[clvclv]

much more concerned with what Preller may do. Hes made no secret of wanting rid of Hosmer and Myers. If he can dump their contracts that would pretty much pay for 2 years of FF and add in their pitching staff coming healthy.

You're completely discounting the most important part of your argument here.

Preller's far from the only GM in the game who would overpay Freddie. The problem is he has to get rid of TWO bad contracts before he has the flexibility to sign Freeman to another one. Who in the world do you think is high on the thought of trading for either of those guys - especially considering how much more money they're owed?

Rebuilding clubs won't take that kind of money on - they'll just save their resources for a few seasons from now when they're competitive. Contending clubs aren't taking that money on for part-time players - it would completely downgrade their ability to improve other areas of their roster. San Diego is pretty well stuck with those two (and needs to find a way to make them in productive in part-time roles) unless they're willing to attach SERIOUS prospect capital to either player to get rid of them. For all the crowing around here (myself included) about how we "stole" Touki simply for picking up a few million in salary, that deal hasn't exactly turned out as hoped. Touki needs to provide a 2 WAR season in 2022 to justify what the Braves paid in salary for Arroyo. The Padres owe Myers $23.5 million (2022 salary plus 2023 buyout), so they'll need to attach a significantly better prospect than Touki was to make his money go away. They still owe Hosmer over $60 million, and he's a 32 year old 1B who hit all of 12 HRs this season. Getting rid of both those guys would likely require attaching their entire Top 10 list of prospects.

Even Preller's not dumb enough to make that kind of trade and THEN sign another 30+ year old 1B to a contract paying him twice what they owe Hosmer to start with.

EDIT - If he really is that dumb, the Padres should have fired him at the same time they fired Tingler.

[clvclv]

The idea of moving Freeman during the rebuild wasn't a bad idea. In fact, it was a very reasonable idea. I have no issue with anyone who thought the Braves should unload a 1B at his peak during a rebuild.

The problem I had with HH's obsession was his insistence on doubling down on the "team in purgatory" nonsense after the Braves were quite clearly a good team capable of winning a title. At that point, a person should acknowledge the known facts have changed, and keeping Freeman worked out for the best. It doesn't mean the original premise was wrong (it never was), but new information should cause views and opinions to change.

Now he put himself in a position where he continued to double down on the opinion that the Braves would never win with Freeman on the roster, almost to the point where he must be cheering for them to lose. That's a crappy place to put yourself as a fan due to your own stubbornness.

If you're going to tear it down, be prepared to tear it all the way down. If you still have important pieces left that are young enough to be cornerstones once you've started putting your next core in place, it makes perfect sense to keep them.

It made all the sense in the world to trade Freddie at the beginning of the rebuild - the return for him would have been massive. Once you realized what you had in Acuna, Ozzie, Dansby, and several young Pitchers dealing your next face of the franchise doesn't make nearly as much sense.

[PawPawMaxwell]

You're completely discounting the most important part of your argument here.

Preller's far from the only GM in the game who would overpay Freddie. The problem is he has to get rid of TWO bad contracts before he has the flexibility to sign Freeman to another one. Who on the world do you think is high on the thought of trading for either of those guys - especially considering how much more money they're owed?

Rebuilding clubs won't take that kind of money on - they'll just save their resources for a few seasons from now when they're competitive. Contending clubs aren't taking that money on for part-time players - it would completely downgrade their ability to improve other areas of their roster. San Diego is pretty well stuck with those two (and needs to find a way to make them in productive in part-time roles) unless they're willing to attach SERIOUS prospect capital to either player to get rid of them. For all the crowing around here (myself included) about how we "stole" Touki simply for picking up a few million in salary, that deal hasn't exactly turned out as hoped. Touki needs to provide a 2 WAR season in 2022 to justify what the Braves paid in salary for Arroyo. The Padres owe Myers $23.5 million (2022 salary plus 2023 buyout), so they'll need to attach a significantly better prospect than Touki was to make his money go away. They still owe Hosmer over $60 million, and he's a 32 year old 1B who hit all of 12 HRs this season. Getting rid of both those guys would likely require attaching their entire Top 10 list of prospects.

Even Preller's not dumb enough to make that kind of trade and THEN sign another 30+ year old 1B to a contract paying him twice what they owe Hosmer to start with.

EDIT - If he really is that dumb, the Padres should have fired him at the same time they fired Tingler.

This is sooooo dumb it doesnt even earn a response.

[clvclv]

This is sooooo dumb it doesnt even earn a response.

Right - and thinking Preller has people lined up to take Hosmer and Myers off his hands isn't. OK.

Name one team you think would trade for either Hosmer or Myers today. Just one.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Both Hosmer and Myers had slightly better than average years in 2021, both had ops+ above 100. That said, say just for example Preller pays Hosmer's 2022 salary and throws in an average prospect for little or less in return he still saves $39M and a rebuilding team gets an above average 1b for 3 years. Myers should appeal to some team like Cleveland if his contract is paid down by half. Preller saves another $10M. Gives up another prospect but with the current young lineup he wouldnt be hurt.

Preller has saved roughly $60M, Freddie gets to go home, gets paid, and Braves are pissed but then you can go find another blog to write.

Is that too hard for you to understand. But before I go, just so you know, Padres owner just gave Preller a 5 year extension in Feb. so I doubt he gets fired anytime soon since he probably was doing the owners duty by firing the manager.

[Heyward]

Yeah, i'm not sure Preller is attatching top 10 prospects to get rid of Myers and Hosmer. If they traded them, they most likely have to take back some salary in return as well. Your theory sounds nice but way easier said than done and very very unlikely to even happen.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Yeah, i'm not sure Preller is attatching top 10 prospects to get rid of Myers and Hosmer. If they traded them, they most likely have to take back some salary in return as well. Your theory sounds nice but way easier said than done and very very unlikely to even happen.

Did you even read the post directly above yours? Preller CAN NOT trade them without eating a ton (which he sounds like he is willing to do) and he will not have to include anyone close to top 10 prospects.

[Heyward]

Did you even read the post directly above yours? Preller CAN NOT trade them without eating a ton (which he sounds like he is willing to do) and he will not have to include anyone close to top 10 prospects.

Better question who is taking on those contracts? If someone is taking them on, they're gonna want something good in exchange, not just some mid level prospect. Logic, try it sometime.

[PawPawMaxwell]

A quick question before I respond to the above nonsense. What do you (clv can answer this one too) think Braves should do with Pederson this winter?

[50PoundHead]

A quick question before I respond to the above nonsense. What do you (clv can answer this one too) think Braves should do with Pederson this winter?

I really like Pederson as a player, but I can't see the Braves picking up the $10 MM option. That could change if the Ozuna gets parked for the 2022 season and Acuna has some kind of setback in his rehab. I will be curious to see how the club (and all of MLB by extension) approaches Rosario as he reaches FA. Rosario has shown in the post-season that for all of his wackiness (had he been thrown out on the base paths in Game 2 of the NLCS, he--and maybe Wash--would be wearing Size XL Goat Horns), he's a very good hitter (and surprisingly patient) when he's dialed in. Maybe the Twins letting him walk after 2020 was a wake-up call.

[Heyward]

A quick question before I respond to the above nonsense. What do you (clv can answer this one too) think Braves should do with Pederson this winter?

That depends on the DH situation, as well as what happens with Ozuna. If thats settled before free agency. We can probably realistically only keep 2 of Soler/Rosario/Duvall/Joc. I'd probably keep Soler and one of Rosario/Joc.

[clvclv]

Both Hosmer and Myers had slightly better than average years in 2021, both had ops+ above 100. That said, say just for example Preller pays Hosmer's 2022 salary and throws in an average prospect for little or less in return he still saves $39M and a rebuilding team gets an above average 1b for 3 years. Myers should appeal to some team like Cleveland if his contract is paid down by half. Preller saves another $10M. Gives up another prospect but with the current young lineup he wouldnt be hurt.

Preller has saved roughly $60M, Freddie gets to go home, gets paid, and Braves are pissed but then you can go find another blog to write.

Is that too hard for you to understand. But before I go, just so you know, Padres owner just gave Preller a 5 year extension in Feb. so I doubt he gets fired anytime soon since he probably was doing the owners duty by firing the manager.

Do you ever even bother to look at other teams' overall salary commitments before deciding what they can afford before saying stuff like this?

The Padres are on the hook for $103 million before arbitration raises WITHOUT Hosmer or Myers. If you "pay Hosmer's 2022 salary and throw in an average prospect" to trade him, that puts their payroll at $125 million BEFORE paying Freeman $30 million. They'll also have to replace Pham and Daniel Hudson since they're free-agents. Trading Myers to Cleveland and paying half of his salary might be the funniest thing you've mentioned yet. You really believe the Indians will pay Myers $11 million when there's a legitimate chance they might trade Ramirez away because he's making the same amount the Indians would have to pay for the honor of taking on a 100-ish OPS+ outfielder? The Indians took Panda and cut him because they're having trouble making ends meet and didn't want to pay the $3-$4 million they owed Rosario. Wow. Who's going to play RF for them in 2022? Profar? Caratini? Jorge Ona? Nah, I know. Dinelson Lamet's got a good arm - playing him in RF will put less strain on it.

Still waiting for you to name a team that would actually trade for either of them. An "average" prospect simply isn't going to generate any interest in paying Hosmer

[PawPawMaxwell]

Well just so I could get a glimpse of your thought process I posed the question so I guess it would be a surprise to you that Myers has had a significantly better career than Pederson. Not that I am advocating Myers to the Braves. Understand that. It also probably comes as a surprise to you that there are 11 teams recognized as having worse 1b than Hosmer. So if Preller eats half of Myers contract and the DH coming to NL and who knows how many teams need OF help do you think it unreasonable that some team in that position would not take a shot at Myers for $10M? If SD eats Hosmers 2022 contract and throws in a fair prospect do you not think one of those 11 teams would not welcome 4 years of Hosmer at less than $10M per?

Now be sure and read this line carefully: I know nothing of Prellers plans but I have read numerous articles of his desire to move both Myers and Hosmer.