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Thread: North Korea

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    reletivly peaceful
    I keep looking for that provocation on the part of N Korea.

    Toward anyone. S Korea,Japan, GranFenwick etc etc etc
    - Cheonan Incident
    - Yeonpyeong Shelling
    - Baengnyeong Island
    - Landmine deaths / rockets to south DMZ zones

    I guess 'relative peace' to you means only a couple hundred murders in the past ~7 years.

    And I'm not getting into things like Kaesong, Kim Jong-Nam, nuclear tests, ICBMs falling into the Sea of Japan, etc.

    Glossing.
    Last edited by Hawk; 04-17-2017 at 11:01 AM.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    You lend unrealistic credence to the rationality of an individual who has enslaved 30 million people and may/may not believe he's a God.

    He has nuclear weapons, artillery on the border which reaches Seoul easily, and an ever-advancing ICBM program which will have missiles able to reach the United States within 4 years.

    You can ignore him at your own risk, but Trump isn't ignoring him. Abe isn't ignoring him either.

    Why? Because he's not 'cornered and dying' ... he's stronger than ever before.
    Says the person living in a country with millions of slaves that has killed millions in other countries invading and occupying them.

    How many countries has NK bombed or invaded in the last 50 years? Now the US. If NK wasn't heavily armed with a passionate populace we would have invaded them a long time ago. They are right to perceive us as a threat.


    I feel bad for the Nk people but they have to rise up on their own just like we have to against the thugs running our country. We shouldn't be invading to set them free anymore than they should be invading America to set our slaves free.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    - Cheonan Incident
    - Yeonpyeong Shelling
    - Baengnyeong Island
    - Landmine deaths / rockets to south DMZ zones

    I guess 'relative peace' to you means only a couple hundred murders in the past ~7 years.

    And I'm not getting into things like Kaesong, Kim Jong-Nam, etc.

    Glossing.

    Our police scoff at only couple hundred murders in the last 7 years. They have murdered over 300 this year and it's not even July. And they give themselves medals for it too.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

  5. #104
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    Who is a slave in America?

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Then who-what -when -where handles the "peace"
    after we accomplish regime change

    we destabilize N Korea then what?
    Why are you so intent on jumping the gun? Regime change is not happening in North Korea, at least not directly by our hands.


    I read this morning S Korean President is in the soup. That government is un stable

    Do you trust Trump to handle this ?
    I posted about this back on page 2:

    Don't forget that the (conservative) President of South Korea is sitting in a jail in central Seoul right now. The country is holding a snap election early next month, and the once highly favored liberal candidate, Moon Jae-in, has been forced to do a 360 on his North Korea policy because of all of this. Back in December he said his first trip if elected President would be to North Korea (his parents escaped from there) and is generally fairly anti-US interference on the peninsula. His numbers in the polls have absolutely cratered recently though (like within the past week) and he's been forced to take up hardline support for things like THAAD (hugely controversial in Korea and China) to compete with the moderate candidate, Ahn Cheol-soo (who is literally Korea's John McAfee without the crazy). Ahn is pro-America presence, pro-THAAD.

    I think Ahn, who is more or less the populist candidate, will win, but whatever happens this weekend could potentially define South Korea's relationship with the United States for the foreseeable future ... one way or the other.

    In the interim, (South) Korea is being run by a loathed lame duck administration and a Prime Minister who was previously a figurehead.


    Do I trust Trump to allow the Koreans to carry out free and fair elections? Is that even a real question?

  7. #106
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    In most every case you site -- the phrase, "separate investigations found evidence to the contrary." keeps sprouting up

    None worth us getting into yet another theater half way across the globe.
    I believe the phrase you mocked was "reletive peace"
    Sow me where the Kos article described Korea as an Easter Parade
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    In most every case you site -- the phrase, "separate investigations found evidence to the contrary." keeps sprouting up
    What? There is no disputing that North Korea torpedoed a South Korean submarine (Cheonan). There is no disputing that North Korea shelled Yeonpyeong or Baengnyeong.

    Stop making things up.

    None worth us getting into yet another theater half way across the globe.
    I believe the phrase you mocked was "reletive peace"
    Sow me where the Kos article described Korea as an Easter Parade
    I'm just mocking the fact that you have spelled 'relative' wrong in 3 separate posts today.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post



    I'm just mocking the fact that you have spelled 'relative' wrong in 3 separate posts today.
    Um,
    I'll have to fix that
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Um,
    I'll have to fix that
    That's okay.

    Just show me what you were talking about when you said, "the phrase, "separate investigations found evidence to the contrary." keeps sprouting up."

    Where is it found in a single news report or article related to the instances I listed?

    I suspect this exercise is going to end similarly to my previous request asking you to find an article in support of de-escalation with North Korea (you previously referred me to unknown news pieces from two decades ago, then came today with a blog post from Daily KOS which was wholly unrelated to de-escalation).
    Last edited by Hawk; 04-17-2017 at 11:28 AM.

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    PYONGYANG (The Borowitz Report)—In a major foreign-policy coup for the Trump Administration, North Korea offered to unconditionally abandon its nuclear program on Monday, after Mike Pence spent several minutes angrily squinting at the nation from just across the border.

    Warning North Korea that the United States had jettisoned its policy of “strategic patience” and that “all options were on the table,” Pence fixed his steely glare on the isolated Communist nation and began furiously staring it down.

    After Pence spent between five and six minutes demonstrating U.S. resolve by squinting indignantly, the government in Pyongyang released a statement indicating that North Korea’s nuclear ambitions were a thing of the past.

    “We will henceforth abandon our nuclear program and dismantle all existing nuclear facilities,” read the official statement from North Korean President Kim Jong-un. “In exchange, we request that Mike Pence stop giving us that really mean look.”

    Moments after the North Korean statement, Pence ordered his facial muscles to stand down, and the Vice-President’s face assumed a peacetime footing.

    At the White House, press secretary Sean Spicer said that the successful U.S. action in North Korea should “send a strong message to barbaric dictators around the world that the United States stands ready to use the full force and fury of Mike Pence’s angry face.”

    Spicer said that, after leaving North Korea, Pence was dispatched to Mosul, Iraq, where he is scheduled to spend several minutes angrily squinting at ISIS
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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  13. #111
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    That's what I thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    That's okay.

    Just show me what you were talking about when you said, "the phrase, "separate investigations found evidence to the contrary." keeps sprouting up."

    Where is it found in a single news report or article related to the instances I listed?

    I suspect this exercise is going to end similarly to my previous request asking you to find an article in support of de-escalation with North Korea (you previously referred me to unknown news pieces from two decades ago, then came today with a blog post from Daily KOS which was wholly unrelated to de-escalation).
    and every instance was resolved with one side accusing the other of provocation.
    Kinda been the case for over 60 years now.
    I remember the Pueblo Incident and surprised that wasn't part of your list of grievances - none in that list amounts to us militarily or warranted even threatening military intervention.
    Border skirmishes is what I believe they are called

    And yes, should we militarily "solve" the N Korea problem will will have to occupy as if nothing else a police force.
    Or, we could have Mike Pence look at them really mean.
    Which seems to have done the trick for over 60 years
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  16. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Who is a slave in America?

    Every prisoner is legally a slave. The law and law enforcement has always been used to get black people back into slavery.
    You can call them criminals and try and justify it but explain to me how we have the highest incarceration rate in the world. If its not about slavery then explain to me why there are more black males in US prisons than the total prison population of India,Argentina, Lebanon, Canada, Japan, Germany, Finland, Israel, and England combined. Thats a combined population of billions and we imprison more black men out of the 18 million in the country than every prison for those countries. How the **** does that happen. 18 million vs billions and we incarcerate 750k out of that 18 million vs 745k out of their billions. The war on drugs is just short of a full blown holocaust. If you think its not intentional you arent paying attention.



    Taking someones freedom and using violence against them for crimes with no victim or intended victim is slavery no matter what laws some jackasses in a big white house pass.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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  18. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    and every instance was resolved with one side accusing the other of provocation.
    Kinda been the case for over 60 years now.
    I remember the Pueblo Incident and surprised that wasn't part of your list of grievances - none in that list amounts to us militarily or warranted even threatening military intervention.
    Border skirmishes is what I believe they are called
    My list of 'grievances' (which I provided for you after you falsely inferred that no major 'provocations' had occurred between the two countries) was intentionally limited to incidents which have taken place since Kim Jong-un took the reigns from his father. If I wanted to waste time rattling off instances of Northern aggression (like that time when they assassinated the mother of now former President Park Guen-hye [the one you referred to as being 'in the soup' earlier] in attempt to take out Ms. Park's father, Park Chung-hee, who was President at the time) then the list would have been, um, considerably longer.

    But, yeah, from 'no provocations' to 'border skirmishes'. I guess that's as close to a mea culpa as I'm going to get.

    And yes, should we militarily "solve" the N Korea problem will will have to occupy as if nothing else a police force.
    Or, we could have Mike Pence look at them really mean.
    Which seems to have done the trick for over 60 years
    The difference between the North Korea of 60 years ago and the North Korea of today is that Kim Il-sung's dynasty wasn't in possession of a legitimate nuclear threat.

  19. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    The law and law enforcement has always been used to get black people back into slavery.

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  22. #117
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    https://www.nytimes.com/?WT.z_jog=1&hF=t&vS=undefined



    Great powers never bluff. They just lie outright about the location, direction, and intent of entire carrier groups. As the New York Times reports, a few ships are not where the Trump White House said they were.

    As worries deepened last week about whether North Korea would conduct a missile test, the White House declared that ordering an American aircraft carrier into the Sea of Japan would send a powerful deterrent signal and give President Trump more options in responding to the North’s provocative behavior.

    Because nothing comforts people and soothes international tension like reporting that you’re bringing in a fleet of warships. However, in this case, there’s an issue other than bringing in some ships to show the flag.

    The problem was, the carrier, the Carl Vinson, and the four other warships in its strike force were at that very moment sailing in the opposite direction, to take part in joint exercises with the Australian Navy in the Indian Ocean, 3,500 miles southwest of the Korean Peninsula.

    They … lied about where the ships were, where they were going, and what they were doing? Didn’t they think that someone might notice when a 100,000 ton ship that’s better than 1,000 feet long and carrying a crew of 5,000 didn’t show up?

    Actually, it appears that the Trump regime wasn’t so much lying about the ships. They just screwed up—in pretty much every way you can think of.

    White House officials said on Tuesday they were relying on guidance from the Defense Department. Officials there describe a glitch-ridden sequence of events, from a premature announcement of the deployment by the military’s Pacific Command to an erroneous explanation by Defense Secretary Jim Mattis — all of which perpetuated the false narrative that an American armada was racing toward the waters off North Korea.

    Well then. Wouldn’t it have been hilarious if Trump had ordered some action confident that the Vinson and her companions were on hand to support his play? And how much better can it get in the “Showing North Korea we’re really serious this time” category than threatening them with ships that were sailing in the other direction?

    Next up: Trump orders Navy to stop taking pictures so no one will know when he’s wrong.

    Your reminder for the day: This is not normal.

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

    It's almost like the United States has no President - we are a rudderless ship heading for a major disaster. Good luck everyone!


    9:41 PM - 19 Mar 2014
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  23. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    That's what I thought.

    full disclosure ...
    That was a Daily Kos article I copied and pasted
    because ?

    well, just because
    and
    they got the story right
    Last edited by 57Brave; 04-18-2017 at 03:59 PM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  24. #119
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    here is more from Daily Kos.
    With direct quotes-links- and pretty much verifiable who what whens and wheres
    quibble with the whys if you like

    In South Korea, Hong Joon-pyo ... said: “What Mr. Trump said was very important for the national security of South Korea. If that was a lie, then during Trump’s term, South Korea will not trust whatever Trump says.”​

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////





    The Wall Street Journal reports that Donald Trump is actually making the world smile—or at least those parts of the world that don’t depend on the United States to display competence.

    The revelation that the Pentagon didn’t send the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier, as U.S. officials had said, directly toward North Korea as a stern message to Pyongyang over its nuclear and missile programs sparked ridicule in some corners of Asia and wariness in others.

    In 1580, King Philip II of Spain launched a 130-ship invasion force toward England, only to lose nearly all the ships to battle, storms, and simple bad planning. It’s history’s most famous “lost armada.” Compared to King Philip, Donald Trump is doing much better. He only misplaced his ships.

    Asked about the deployment in an interview with Fox Business Network that aired April 12, President Trump said: “We are sending an armada, very powerful.”

    U.S. media went into overdrive, and Fox reported on April 14 that the armada was “steaming” toward North Korea.

    Er … no. No it wasn’t. And now …

    Chinese news portal Guancha.cn declared: “Media around the entire world have been duped by Trump again!” The Global Times, a nationalistic tabloid, took that observation a step further, saying American, South Korean and Japanese media had committed a “major screw-up.”

    Trump’s missing armada wasn’t off by just a little bit ...

    Instead of steaming toward the Korea Peninsula, the carrier strike group was actually headed in the opposite direction to take part in “scheduled exercises with Australian forces in the Indian Ocean,” according to Defense News, which first reported the story.

    Which is somewhat less hilarious in the place where those ships were being used as a threat.

    In North Korea, the U.S. Navy’s admission that the Carl Vinson was actually thousands of miles away on exercises off Australia’s coast and won’t arrive to the Korean Peninsula until next week prompted the state-run news service to say Washington “now bluffs that it was a ‘warning’ act” against the country.

    And even less amusing in the place where those ships were being counted on as a defense. Though it was extremely educational.

    In South Korea, Hong Joon-pyo ... said: “What Mr. Trump said was very important for the national security of South Korea. If that was a lie, then during Trump’s term, South Korea will not trust whatever Trump says.”​

    What damages the United States more than any attack? A reputation for lying so thoroughly that allies don’t trust America to have their backs

    http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017...says#read-more
    Last edited by 57Brave; 04-19-2017 at 09:39 AM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  25. #120
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    North and South Korea agree in their distain toward Trump.

    Do I smell common ground and an opening to negotiations ?
    Maybe this Trump guy is playing chess while everyone else is playing backgammon

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