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Thread: GDT--Sat, 6/30 vs Cards

  1. #201
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    81 games, and Sam freeman has pitched in 40. Unbelievable we used him tonight
    kinda shocking
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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    It's OVER 5,000! msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    kinda shocking
    We have 2 LH relievers, and snit used one of them up huge. Snit is a dummy. Throw Luke Jackson again or moylan... not freeman though. Such a stupid move

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    You're "ruled by the numbers"...

    1.4 fWAR
    1.2 fWAR
    0.7 fWAR
    and 2.3 fWAR (before tonight)

    is 5.6 fWAR before tonight.

    How many $$$ is a WAR worth again??? Pick another metric - just make sure it's one you can't ever be questioned about.

    What metric are you going to use now???
    The stupid is due to nobody claiming Markakis hasn’t been worth his contract...

    You are a complete buffoon that is so dumb you can’t even understand that you’re dumb.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 06-30-2018 at 09:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    What is even your point here?
    Exactly. He is trying to make fun of someone for something nobody ever claimed.

    Derptard gonna derp.

  6. #205
    It's OVER 5,000! Braves1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We have 2 LH relievers, and snit used one of them up huge. Snit is a dummy. Throw Luke Jackson again or moylan... not freeman though. Such a stupid move
    Freeman will continue blowing big games with such an insane usage, he is only human not a robot

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    It's OVER 5,000! zbhargrove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    You're "ruled by the numbers"...

    1.4 fWAR
    1.2 fWAR
    0.7 fWAR
    and 2.3 fWAR (before tonight)

    is 5.6 fWAR before tonight.

    How many $$$ is a WAR worth again??? Pick another metric - just make sure it's one you can't ever be questioned about.

    What metric are you going to use now???
    I as well cannot exactly figure out any sort of point you're trying to make...

  8. #207
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    Nope. You go and find the posts you're referring to. It isn't our job to back up whatever argument YOU are trying to make, which I'm still not even sure what it is exactly.
    Because I’m a masochist, I went back to check the thread, and I was right: by and large, the concerns were Markakis’ defense, the final two years of the deal (which were looking pretty bad after 2017, but which 2018 has obviously really buoyed), and why Hart thought it was a good use of a rebuilding team’s resources. There were also a lot of photos of James Franco c/o [MENTION=18]Dalyn[/MENTION].

    This seems a representative post, inasmuch as that’s possible for a 60+ page thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    If we're looking broadly at the current market for outfielders in baseball then I believe a decent case can be made that the Braves signed Markakis at-value. Where I draw pause is at the question of whether or not this acquisition was ultimately necessary, given the team's position to contend in 2015. If Hart were to keep Justin Upton around Markakis would be a welcome addition at the top of the order and a palatable substitution for Heyward -- especially if you are choosing to accept the assertion that he was demanding $25MM from Atlanta.

    However, seeing as how the Braves appear to have no real intention of keeping J. Upton we have to treat Markakis as an integral addition to the roster. And he just isn't - that's not an attack, just an honest assessment of the skills he brings to the table at this stage of his career. I accept that he will help unite the clubhouse and embody consistency across the board, but, again, at a real premium cost to an organization that is resource deficient.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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  10. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    It’s not about metrics; you misunderstand the crux of the argument. Those against the Markakis signing didn’t object to the team’s monetary valuation of Markakis vis-à-vis his likely production—indeed, most agreed it was a fair, market-value pact. The point of contention was that a market-value contract for an OF in his early 30s made little sense, and stood to have even less upside, for a team just entering a long rebuild.

    We’re all glad the Braves “arrived” a year early, and that Markakis is coincidentally posting a career year in his walk-year. Both those unforeseen contingencies don’t affect the logic of the initial signing, which was very dubitable at best.
    The rationale was also that the last season would be the worst season and that he’d be almost unplayable.

  11. #209
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    The rationale was also that the last season would be the worst season and that he’d be almost unplayable.
    Indeed—and the fact that the fourth year decidedly hasn’t been his worst season (much less unplayably bad) has been wildly awesome.

    It’s also salvaging the deal for the Braves, since Markakis mildly underperformed his salary in 2015 and vastly underperformed it in 2017. All-in-all, it’s working out to market-value in a circuitous fashion that’s timed just right for the Braves (like so many things heretofore in 2018).
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Indeed—and the fact that the fourth year decidedly hasn’t been his worst season (much less unplayably bad) has been wildly awesome.

    It’s also salvaging the deal for the Braves, since Markakis mildly underperformed his salary in 2015 and vastly underperformed it in 2017. All-in-all, it’s working out to market-value in a circuitous fashion that’s timed just right for the Braves (like so many things heretofore in 2018).
    If you use bWar and $8m he gave surplus value in 1 and 2.

    I think for the most part the deal was a whatever.

    I’m happy he’s had a great first half when the Braves needed it. I thought he’d probably be about like last year or worse.

  13. #211
    "What is a clvclv"
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Once again relitigating the Markakis contract ... Wow, what a novel and terrific idea.

    Even following the numbers clv posted, he’s basically arriving at the point that—thanks to a career-year in his mid-30s—Markakis has just now become worth exactly what he’s been paid. It seems ... an unnecessary line of discussion.
    The only problem with this statement is that you guys run away from those "absolutes" when they don't fit your narratives...

    "No I'm saying even at 25M year for 8 years, that would have been a better course than acquiring Markakis, Miller, Jenkins plus an extra $5M/year of financial flexibility." (nsacpi on 12/4/14)


    "Imagine this:

    It's Opening Day, and Nick Markakis steps to home plate for the first time as an Atlanta Brave. The stadium is filled to 50% capacity, but the crowd manages a semi-rousing 'welcome to Atlanta' ovation. Markakis tips his helmet, digs in, breathes, but suddenly flips his hand back to the umpire indicating his desire for a time-out. It's granted. He steps back and suddenly inexplicably starts clawing his face, tearing skin and hair off -- the sight is gruesome, Fredi Gonzalez weeps ... but suddenly, from under the bits of superficial flesh emerges JASON HEYWARD!

    "I knew this was the only way my agent, who was trying to negotiate a $250MM deal apparently completely behind my back, would ever allow me to sign with Atlanta. So I killed Nick Markakis and slipped into his exoderm for a few months. NOW WHAT KIND OF BARGAIN AM I?"

    And the Braves lived happily ever after, for four years.

    The end."
    (Hawk - 12/5/2014)


    "Finally, Markakis on a 4-year deal is questionable in a vaccuum, and even more questionable given our focus on 2016 - 2018." (dak - 1/5/15)


    "This is the kind fo trade a rebuilding team would make. the problem is we did the dumb Markakis signing." (zito on 1/1/2015)


    "Nothing wrong with it at like 2/25, it's the 4/44 that I have a problem with. We're paying a lot of money for an old guy who will probably suck when we hope to be competitive." (zito on 1/1/2015)


    "Markakis to Terdo is 10-20 win difference?" (Russ2dollas on 1/1/2015)


    "Last 3 years Markakis has a 104 wRC+, Rasmus 102, Markakis had a 4 fWAR and Rasmus a 6.4.

    Last 2 years Markakis has a 97 wRC+, Rasmus 117, Markakis had a 2.4 WAR and Rasmus a 5.4

    If Rasmus is awful, what does that make Markakis?"
    (zito again on 1/1/2015)


    "However, I will say this. The Markakis signing is the most overblown bad move (I don't like it) I have ever seen." (chop2chip on 1/1/2015)


    "(You're aware that Heyward slugged .384 while Markakis slugged .386 last season, right???) I'm going to save this here on a platter for somebody else to respond to." (Hawk on 12/2/2014)


    "I think Markakis is a decent player, but if we sign him to a 3- or 4-year deal, we're crazy. MFII is right. The last two years of the contract may be Melvinesque." (50 on 12/3/2014)


    "4/45 for a 31 year old Markakis is an absolute joke. He was horrific in 2013 and in 2014 he lived off his great 1st and in the 2nd half he was a 250 hitter with a 700 OPS with horrible D." (BRule on 12/3/2014)


    "Now I'm curious as to just what exactly Hart was sniffing before he was sniffing around Markakis." (Forever Fredi on 12/3/2014)


    "Our front office has gone full retard." (Cy Young 31 on 12/3/2014)


    "Heyward's at .335, .351, and .349 the last 3 years for OBP.

    HUGE DIFFERENCE

    MARKAKIS SUCKS HEYWARD IS THE BEST PLAYER IN BASEBALL"
    (Heyward on 12/3/2014)


    "I think this is a bad deal that's likely to look really ugly within a year or two. We might get a normal Nick Markakis season out of him in 2015, but that's nothing terribly impressive, and I suspect that by mid-2016 we'll be looking at another Uggla situation, if not quite as awful."
    and
    "For the record, potential better options: Colby Rasmus on a one or two-year make-good contract, Michael Saunders from the M's, especially since the Jays just got him for Generic Soft-Tossing Lefty 7A."
    (MadduxFan II on 12/3/2014)


    "Markakis is a 10 war player. Whitneess Above Replacement." (cajunrevenge on 12/3/2014)


    "Markakis isn't worth the money he'll get but a guy like Heyward making 25 mill a year is well worth it and more. Until they can fully grasp this concept the Atlanta Braves are not going to amount to much." (BemenFan88 on 12/3/2014)



    "It will be nice to have Pedroia v2.0 on the roster." (The Blackjack Dealer discussing Jace Peterson on 1/7/15 - just had to toss that one in. How'd those numbers work out?)
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  14. #212
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    If you use bWar and $8m he gave surplus value in 1 and 2.

    I think for the most part the deal was a whatever.

    I’m happy he’s had a great first half when the Braves needed it. I thought he’d probably be about like last year or worse.
    It’s pretty classically baseball that the most contentious aspect—the fourth year of the contract—is actually turning into a magical, probable-All Star season that redeems (and then some) the whole enterprise.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  15. #213
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    The only problem with this statement is that you guys run away from those "absolutes" when they don't fit your narratives...
    I always eschew absolutes because I don’t believe in any.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Sabermetric Slut
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    I love how 3 months of Neck being an all-star in year 4 means everyone opinion of him was wrong when he was playing exactly as predicted for years 1-3. lol

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  18. #215
    It's OVER 5,000! msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I love how 3 months of Neck being an all-star in year 4 means everyone opinion of him was wrong when he was playing exactly as predicted for years 1-3. lol
    Markakis certainly wasn't anything to write home about years 1-3. If we make the playoffs this year on the back of his putting up a huge season, gotta admit the signing at least paid off when it counted.

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  20. #216
    Director of Minor League Reports rico43's Avatar
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    The Markakis bashing seems almost Trump-like in its consistency. The points I'll concede is that the deal was a big gamble in that he was coming off neck surgery, but it's that same reason I felt like his first year would be the biggest aberration from his career levels.

    Without putting the analytical microscope to his numbers -- I believe anyone can find an analytic to back up their argument about any player -- I felt his signing was exactly what it has become: a guy you can write down every day on the lineup card and who will give you his best every day without drama, excess noise (i.e., media) and who will produce within predictable parameters.

    His 162-game career average (and he has always been able in at least 155 games every year but one since 2007) are .289-15-79 with 189 hits, 39 doubles. His average after 3 1/2 seasons with Atlanta is .287. His home run total dropped and his strikeout totals soared the last two years, but everything else remained consistent about his career. I am on the fence on whether or not to re-sign him, when compared to other free agent signings the last decade or so, he's turned out pretty darn well.

    It also notable that his four-year deal was for $11 million per year. His final two years with the Orioles, he was paid $15 million per year.

  21. #217
    10 yr, $185 million Extension
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    I stand by what I said. In no way did I see neck doing this this year and neither did anyone else.

    Add to that if you told me neck would have a 900 ops any year of the deal I would not have thought we were winning enough to matter

    I still would not sign that deal. If you are tanking you tank it. Let terdo suck for a couple years.

    No neck and we have a spot for a marlins of.

  22. #218
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Where’s the bashing?

    Again, the crux was whether it made sense for the Braves to allot resources, during a deep teardown/rebuild, to a guy they could “write down every day on the lineup card and who [would] give you his best every day without drama, excess noise (i.e., media) and who [would] produce within predictable parameters.” The “yes” arguments tended towards leadership and mentorship, and the “no” towards leveraging every available dollar and roster-spot in service of longer-term payouts.

    Markakis proved us all wrong by eclipsing his predicable parameters and going All Star in a season where the Braves started contending a year early. That’s legitimately awesome, but doesn’t change the calculus on Hart’s decision, whether you supported or maligned it originally.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  23. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I love how 3 months of Neck being an all-star in year 4 means everyone opinion of him was wrong when he was playing exactly as predicted for years 1-3. lol
    Don’t you even start.

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    In his 2 MLB starts Fried has a 2.24 FIP. Hopefully he gets a chance to stay there for awhile.

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