Chris Johnson - NL Batting Leader

[thethe]

I still have a lot of untapped potential in me. don't risk me going all Chris Davis on another forum.

[zitothebrave]

His slugging won't be that low. He's slugging .441 for his career now and it's rising pretty steadily. He's had one bad year - 2011 at Houston, of he'd be at .300/.340/450 right now.

His current iso is at .133 I guess I should have said .300/.340/.430

But even .300/.340/.450 isn't very good for a guy who'll cost runs in the bases and field. Sure you can do worse, but you can also do much better.

[zitothebrave]

Yeah, that's not Chris Johnson. Pretty much irrelevant.

It's not Johnson but it was all posted to prove my point. Generally bad defenders are regarded as such by UZR and DRS. I think everyone would agree that most of the guys listed in the bottom 10 are bad defenders and all of the guys listed in the top 10 are good defenders. My point which should have been abundantly clear is that when UZR and DRS agree on a player, odds are they're right.

[thethe]

His current iso is at .133 I guess I should have said .300/.340/.430

But even .300/.340/.450 isn't very good for a guy who'll cost runs in the bases and field. Sure you can do worse, but you can also do much better.

You can do much better for what cost? Isn't that the real question? Sure, Chris Johnson will cost us money but to get an upgrade (won't be easy) might cost the Braves money and trade chips.

[zitothebrave]

Tommy La Stella or Evan Gattis.

Sure they're risky because they have an unknown to them. Even though Tommy is a very good 2B you don't know if he can handle 3B, and gattis is a C, but their upside is so much higher than Johnson it's not funny.

[thethe]

Tommy La Stella or Evan Gattis.

Sure they're risky because they have an unknown to them. Even though Tommy is a very good 2B you don't know if he can handle 3B, and gattis is a C, but their upside is so much higher than Johnson it's not funny.

I would be interested to see if LaStella can handle third base. I have my doubts about Evan.

I do think you understate Johnsons value to this team because you are in disbelief of what he is doing. Johnson is as big of a factor in this teams success as almost anyone.

[zitothebrave]

He is a big factor, but even with his impossibly high BABIP, he's still 5th on the team in fWAR. Sure you have a PT excuse, but Heyward is on his butt with less PT and would probably be right next to him with 14 more PA.

[Tapate50]

Dude,

Give the CJ envy a rest for 10 seconds. Just say "I didn't know $#!T about him and jumped to conclusions" and let it rest.

[Braves1976]

You can do much better for what cost? Isn't that the real question? Sure, Chris Johnson will cost us money but to get an upgrade (won't be easy) might cost the Braves money and trade chips.

CJ's having a career year both offensively and defensively. He deserves credit for what he's done thus far. His career year has helped us quite a bit. The odds on both repeating are low, esp. on the offensive side given some of the extremes he has going. Also, Johnson's career year defensively has a lot more to do with having Simmons at short.

To answer your question, we could sign someone like Infante this off-season if we trade Johnson. Pena and Infante would be a fine platoon at third and better defensively. Infante is someone that can hit for average and is solid vs lefties too. Plus Infante could play some second as well if we're able to trade Uggla.

Note, when I say CJ is having a career year defensively. I don't mean to say his defense has been good. What I am saying is that thus far it's not been as bad as his track record. Again, a lot of that has to do with having Simmons at short. But the bottom line is that CJ has been better and I'm thankful of that. I am just not confident that it will last.

[thethe]

CJ's having a career year both offensively and defensively. He deserves credit for what he's done thus far. His career year has helped us quite a bit. The odds on both repeating are low, esp. on the offensive side given some of the extremes he has going. Also, Johnson's career year defensively has a lot more to do with having Simmons at short.

To answer your question, we could sign someone like Infante this off-season if we trade Johnson. Pena and Infante would be a fine platoon at third and better defensively. Infante is someone that can hit for average and is solid vs lefties too. Plus Infante could play some second as well if we're able to trade Uggla.

Note, when I say CJ is having a career year defensively. I don't mean to say his defense has been good. What I am saying is that is that thus far it's not been as bad as his track record. Again, I believe a lot of that has to do with having Simmons at short. But the bottom line is that CJ has been better and I'm thankful of that. I am just not confident that it will last.

I'm sorry but that third base platoon would absolutely suck. Even if CJ is having a career year defensively because of Simmons he will have him next year as well. You just never know when players get it and its reasonable to assume that CJ will have a spike from his career production in his 27-30 years. I don't expect him to have a crazy BABIP every year obviously but I do expect him to hit 300 with his approach at the plate and with a team full of sluggers that has value.

[zitothebrave]

Dude,

Give the CJ envy a rest for 10 seconds. Just say "I didn't know $#!T about him and jumped to conclusions" and let it rest.

I know more about Chris Johnson than anyone who's arguing with me. I was one of the people in the positive of taking him in. I assumed he'd hit around the same level as Prado would for us but we'd be at a net loss because of defense. Now Prado is sucking and Johnson is raking but if they were playing how they were expected that statement I made would still be true.

[Braves1976]

I would be interested to see if LaStella can handle third base. I have my doubts about Evan.

I do think you understate Johnsons value to this team because you are in disbelief of what he is doing. Johnson is as big of a factor in this teams success as almost anyone.

I'd certainly give Gattis a shot at third if Mac is re-signed. But I too have my doubts that he'd do well enough at third. La Stella at third I'm not sure about either. But the way he's been hitting if he could play third he might be a possibly cheap answer too.

[zitothebrave]

I'm sorry but that third base platoon would absolutely suck. Even if CJ is having a career year defensively because of Simmons he will have him next year as well. You just never know when players get it and its reasonable to assume that CJ will have a spike from his career production in his 27-30 years. I don't expect him to have a crazy BABIP every year obviously but I do expect him to hit 300 with his approach at the plate and with a team full of sluggers that has value.

Probelm is what happens when Simmons goes down? Also if he's costing us 5-10 runs with Simmons, what would he do if SImmons went down? Would Simmons be a better defensive SS if he had an average 3B next to him? What about if we made the move for a good defensive 3B? All viable questions that have to be weighed when it comes down to making a choice for our roster next year. Keeping Johnson likely means we lose a pitcher or potentially means we cannot keep McCann. IF my choice is signing Mac or having Johnson and say Venters, I would choose the first one all the time every time

[thethe]

Probelm is what happens when Simmons goes down? Also if he's costing us 5-10 runs with Simmons, what would he do if SImmons went down? Would Simmons be a better defensive SS if he had an average 3B next to him? What about if we made the move for a good defensive 3B? All viable questions that have to be weighed when it comes down to making a choice for our roster next year. Keeping Johnson likely means we lose a pitcher or potentially means we cannot keep McCann. IF my choice is signing Mac or having Johnson and say Venters, I would choose the first one all the time every time

You are acting like good defensive third baseman who can hit anything worth a poop just grow on trees. Its not going to be easy to just replace CJ. Obviously, if the choice is CJ or Mac I am taking Mac.

[Dunit24]

I like reading opposing teams message boards. Its funny how they all called CJ a fluke early on this year and now that he is still hitting .345 or so, they consider him no longer a fluke. Im thrilled to have him.

[gtcway]

I know more about Chris Johnson than anyone who's arguing with me. I was one of the people in the positive of taking him in. I assumed he'd hit around the same level as Prado would for us but we'd be at a net loss because of defense. Now Prado is sucking and Johnson is raking but if they were playing how they were expected that statement I made would still be true.

Regardless of what you think about Johnson, he will be our 3rd baseman next year.

[Braves1976]

I'm sorry but that third base platoon would absolutely suck. Even if CJ is having a career year defensively because of Simmons he will have him next year as well. You just never know when players get it and its reasonable to assume that CJ will have a spike from his career production in his 27-30 years. I don't expect him to have a crazy BABIP every year obviously but I do expect him to hit 300 with his approach at the plate and with a team full of sluggers that has value.

Infante is hitting .309 this year and playing great defensively at second. He's got experience at third base too and isn't bad there with a 4 career DRS (CJ's is -46 for his career at third). Plus Pena is great defensively at third and hits righties a lot better than lefties. So while this platoon wouldn't hit for average like CJ is so far this year. I do think they'd make up for it on defense, Pena especially.

That said, I was just answering your question and pointing out Infante/Pena as an option. There are other possible options too.

[thethe]

I don't know. I just think its a difficult thing to quantify what CHris is costing us in the field. I just don't see him being a huge negative out there.

[Braves1976]

I don't know. I just think its a difficult thing to quantify what CHris is costing us in the field. I just don't see him being a huge negative out there.

Who is saying that he is a "huge negative" out there? I've repeatedly said that he's more than made up for what he lacks on defense with his bat thus far. Though I've also pointed out that Simmons deserves credit too. A contending team that lacks Simmons cannot afford to start CJ everyday like we have, IMO. This is also why we cannot afford to lose Simmons to injury (and need him starting pretty much everyday a la Uggla). Of course having a bad defender in Uggla at second is part of it too. Uggla has the worst DRS on the team, IIRC.

[thethe]

Who is saying that he is a "huge negative" out there? I've repeatedly said that he's more than made up for what he lacks on defense with his bat thus far. Though I've also pointed out that Simmons deserves credit too. A contending team that lacks Simmons cannot afford to start CJ everyday like we have, IMO. This is also why we cannot afford to lose Simmons to injury (and need him starting pretty much everyday a la Uggla). Of course having a bad defender in Uggla at second is part of it too. Uggla has the worst DRS on the team, IIRC.

Thats the thing...Uggla is the guy that needs to be moved and not CJ. I understand that it would be a 100X easier to move CJ but the Braves need to exhaust every possible avenue to move Uggla. Maybe the Braves can capitalize on the Yankees getting salary relief. Trade them Uggla and 6 million dollars for one of their bullpen arms in AAA/AA (they have a few interesting ones). Then put LaStella at 2B and everyone wins.