Scandals

[57Brave]

Willing to risk being called an Obam-ite for trying to infuse a spec of reality into the conversation


Yesterday evening, CBS finally acknowledged that its blockbuster "report" documenting "what really happened in Benghazi" was actually built on a foundation of lies, revealing once again the utter absurdity of the GOP's Benghazi scandal machine—and it didn't take long for Rep. Darrell Issa, the Republican chairman of the House Government Oversight Committee which has led the Benghazi investigation, to respond:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_16...s-on-benghazi/

[CK86]

Benghazi is a losing "scandal," said so since the beginning. Should've waited for the facts and mourned the dead and left it at that.

I'm much more interested in the Obamacare debacle and the now secret undoing of sanctions against Iran. I'm also quite interested in how the NSA scandal and handling of Syria has managed to completely destroy Obama's credibility at home and especially abroad. His second term has been awful.

[57Brave]

"handling of Syria"

?

[CK86]

"handling of Syria"

?

Have you already forgotten the Syria debacle? I mean, aside from wanting to fight on the side of al-qaeda after Syria "crossed the red line"? What about wanting to go to war so badly that the only reason they didn't is due to the outcry of the American people. He and John Kerry were hellbent on going to war in a conflict that had nothing to do with us. Then he backtracked after Russia negotiated a way out. I also liked the administration's idea to arm al-qaeda, that seems like a stellar plan...

[Julio3000]

Have you already forgotten the Syria debacle? I mean, aside from wanting to fight on the side of al-qaeda after Syria "crossed the red line"? What about wanting to go to war so badly that the only reason they didn't is due to the outcry of the American people. He and John Kerry were hellbent on going to war in a conflict that had nothing to do with us. Then he backtracked after Russia negotiated a way out. I also liked the administration's idea to arm al-qaeda, that seems like a stellar plan...

You seem to have what sounds like a very skewed take on that situation.

[Julio3000]

Benghazi is a losing "scandal," said so since the beginning. Should've waited for the facts and mourned the dead and left it at that.

I'm much more interested in the Obamacare debacle and the now secret undoing of sanctions against Iran. I'm also quite interested in how the NSA scandal and handling of Syria has managed to completely destroy Obama's credibility at home and especially abroad. His second term has been awful.

Man, quotes around "scandal?" I'm impressed.

So you don't agree with Steve King that it's Watergate plus Iran-Contra times ten? That's pretty much an exact quote, btw. How about with the other Republican reps who said it was "Worse than Watergate," without ever really articulating what exactly had happened to make it so bad. How about with the 91% of "very conservative" people in a PPP poll who agreed that it was the worst political scandal in American history?

[CK86]

Man, quotes around "scandal?" I'm impressed.

So you don't agree with Steve King that it's Watergate plus Iran-Contra times ten? That's pretty much an exact quote, btw. How about with the other Republican reps who said it was "Worse than Watergate," without ever really articulating what exactly had happened to make it so bad. How about with the 91% of "very conservative" people in a PPP poll who agreed that it was the worst political scandal in American history?

I've consistently said that Benghazi should be something we learned from, not somethif we politicize. It's a fake "scandal" caused by people who wanted so badly for a real Obama scandal.

Benghazi should be learned from. We should find out exactly what happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Much like I was against politicising the 9/11 tragedy (see Rudy Guiliani), I believe Benghazi falls under the same principle.

I wouldn't mind being shown the error of my beliefs on Syria though. I'm staunchly anti-war and nothing the administration did shows me they're anything but Bush's 3rd and 4th term. But that's me, feel free to show me where I am wrong and I'm open to changing my opinion on it.

I'm not like Steve King or any of the idiots in Washington who are so hyper partisan that they refuse to reevaluate the situation.

[57Brave]

In Syria we've achieved the outcome we desired without ever firing a shot or setting a foot on Syrian soil. Did I miss a war or conflict? Or even a police action !!

Bush invaded two countries! One as a knee jerk reaction to 9/11 and the other on ... somebody help me here.
So how you see this as evidence of Bush's 3rd and 4th -- the math doesn't work

Perhaps you didn't like the media play by play of carrot and stick diplomacy - but the results are the best anyone could have hoped for

[CK86]

Expanded foreign surveillance by the NSA which led to distrust among our allies? That sounds like Bush.

Obama and Kerry were pushing us into war. They fortunately got talked off the cliff by the international community. It was a conflict we had no business being involved in. I'm ecstatic that Syria is disarming but I'm still uneasy about arming the rebels who have been taken over by al-qaeda. Had they gone through with another pointless war, it would've been just like Bush.

[57Brave]

The expanded surveillance, as we know it, began in 2001-02 if not sooner. The head of the NSA is on record saying there is no way the President would have known the extent ... shoot, it's possible the NSA per se doesn't grasp the extent of their net

Yes it is terrible but, where were you in the early 2000's when the Patriot Act (which Bush in fact was opposed !) or even in 2005 when it was first revealed how deep this went. Being 2013 I feel naive for getting so upset in 2005

Besides, I logged on to Google today, ordered a prescription refill today on line, bought an mp3 download from Amazon , have a credit rating, past IRS troubles and a penchant for late 19th century porn ... At this point we're feeling certain my life is pretty much an open book
////

Oh yeah, Tapate follows me around the net looking for an argument

[Julio3000]

I've consistently said that Benghazi should be something we learned from, not somethif we politicize. It's a fake "scandal" caused by people who wanted so badly for a real Obama scandal.

Benghazi should be learned from. We should find out exactly what happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Much like I was against politicising the 9/11 tragedy (see Rudy Guiliani), I believe Benghazi falls under the same principle.

I wouldn't mind being shown the error of my beliefs on Syria though. I'm staunchly anti-war and nothing the administration did shows me they're anything but Bush's 3rd and 4th term. But that's me, feel free to show me where I am wrong and I'm open to changing my opinion on it.

I'm not like Steve King or any of the idiots in Washington who are so hyper partisan that they refuse to reevaluate the situation.

Hey, I think that's great. I agree entirely about what we should take away from Benghazi. I also agree entirely with this part,

It's a fake "scandal" caused by people who wanted so badly for a real Obama scandal.

What I would quibble with about your Syria statements:

Your certainty that we were committed to war and were only swayed by public opinion. I don't know that there's any evidence to support this.

That the conflict had nothing to do with us. As soon as chemical weapons were used, it did, at least to some degree.

The statement that we are arming al-Qaeda, and planning on intervening on their "side."

Is Israel also aligned with al-Qaeda, since they may at times appear to be nominally on the same "side" in the Syrian conflict?

Look, I also think we ought to be very, very careful about providing military aid and training to rebel groups and insurgencies. Short form, I think the bar for doing that should be VERY high. We've seen a variety of negative ways that those chickens can come home to roost. But your statement is not correct.

[BedellBrave]

Thank the Lord for Putin.

[yeezus]

I wouldn't mind being shown the error of my beliefs on Syria though. I'm staunchly anti-war and nothing the administration did shows me they're anything but Bush's 3rd and 4th term. But that's me, feel free to show me where I am wrong and I'm open to changing my opinion on it.

Other than, you know, NOT actually going to war.
Which Bush almost certainly does, btw.
Not sure what you're complaining about. It was handled well.

[BedellBrave]

Oh how soon we forget Libya, Yemen and the expansion of the Drone war in Pakistan.

And I'm really not sure I'd claim Syria was "handled well."

[57Brave]

What, for conversations sake would you call handled well ??

[BedellBrave]

Well I don't think it would have included drawing lines in the sand that you then ignore. Better to have kept the public pronouncements not so cowboyish.

[yeezus]

Oh how soon we forget Libya, Yemen and the expansion of the Drone war in Pakistan.

And I'm really not sure I'd claim Syria was "handled well."

How so? How can people complain about Syria?
Yes, he may have wanted to go there and do something - but he listened to what others wanted and tried a different route. And we didn't go.
I can't believe some people, who didn't want to go, would complain about this...even though we didn't go.

[BedellBrave]

Being happy we aren't immersed in yet another conflict with no discernible end doesn't mean that one shouldn't critique POTUS' handling of all the matter to this point. Why should it?


Here's some helpful reading. I don't think "handled well" is apt.

[bravesnumberone]

CBS never makes stuff up....right, Dan Rather?

[57Brave]

Well I don't think it would have included drawing lines in the sand that you then ignore. Better to have kept the public pronouncements not so cowboyish.

In the end Syria disarmed -- correct?
that was the goal -- however we got there -- right?

I get the feeling you are arguing the difference between a running touchdown and a passing touchdown.
this is more evidence of how Obamas opposition cant take yes for an answer. Notice I didnt say enemies!