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Thread: Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    Russia is colluding with anti-fracking groups in America by spreading false information about fracking


    Should we investigate these people Too?
    Nice false-equivalency.

    But regardless, fracking is bad and should be stopped.
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  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    Russia is colluding with anti-fracking groups in America by spreading false information about fracking


    Should we investigate these people Too?
    If you want your state to go from never ever having an earthquake to being the new earthquake capital of the world then I'd suggest you not only allow fracking, but you should also encourage it.

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  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    Russia is colluding with anti-fracking groups in America by spreading false information about fracking


    Should we investigate these people Too?
    Are those people in the oval office? As jpx said, nice false-equivalency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Are those people in the oval office? As jpx said, nice false-equivalency.
    Does it matter?

    Murder is murder
    Treason is treason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    Does it matter?

    Murder is murder
    Treason is treason
    Right

    Treason -

    the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

    For sure telling people lies about fracking is equivalent to trying to disrupt and election.

    I wish I could be as delusional as you. It must be nice to be living in a fantasy world
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Are those people in the oval office? As jpx said, nice false-equivalency.
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Right

    Treason -

    the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

    For sure telling people lies about fracking is equivalent to trying to disrupt and election.

    I wish I could be as delusional as you. It must be nice to be living in a fantasy world


    I was saying crimes are crimes regardless of who commits them but that's hard for people like you to understand.

    i believe in a country of laws. Way, way more evidence of hillary and the Russians making weird deals than trump has. Evidence of anti-fracking groups being in cahoots with Russia, but that's no big deal. you guys don't care about being fair and being right. It's all about going after Trump with make believe accusation after make believe accusation.

  8. #147
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    I was saying crimes are crimes regardless of who commits them but that's hard for people like you to understand.

    i believe in a country of laws. Way, way more evidence of hillary and the Russians making weird deals than trump has. Evidence of anti-fracking groups being in cahoots with Russia, but that's no big deal. you guys don't care about being fair and being right. It's all about going after Trump with make believe accusation after make believe accusation.
    Lol This is where you just don't get it.

    Is it a crime when Russia does that but when Canadian companies do it too? Or is it different for you because of Russia. Or we can talk about it from former FLOTUS on the campaign trail in October

    "We [the State Department and the U.S. government] were up against Russia pushing oligarchs and others to buy media. We were even up against phony environmental groups, and I’m a big environmentalist, but these were funded by the Russians to stand up against any effort, ‘Oh that pipeline, that fracking, that whatever will be a problem for you,’ and a lot of that money supporting that effort was coming from Russia."

    Though again, this storm is from some reps from Texas who have big oil backing them.

    Realize that Fracking is bad, and your false equivalency is stupid for that reason.

    Again, ignoring the discussion of Fracking you're comparing potential collusion in a US presidential election to environmental activism groups. If you can't see the difference there's truly no hope for you.
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  9. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I think you used to be of that belief, no? I'm curious as to why the development of the issue over time hasn't shifted your perspective more (compared to, say, 2 months ago or 6 or 8 months ago. The picture has changed quite a bit. Some of what has come to light is most likely fluff, and some seems quite substantive.

    This thing with DJTJ is, at the VERY least, shows extremely poor judgment and is awful w/r/t optics. Is it more than that? Dunno. Is it nothing, as you believe and suggest that we all should? I don't know that, either, but until more is known, the case for it being nothing hangs on the word of some individuals who have not distinguished themselves with their probity.
    I believe the Russians may have overtly interfered with the election. I don't believe that the Trump campaign (proper) colluded with them.

    Extremely poor judgement? No. I see due diligence.

    I didn't say it was nothing at all, I said it was nothing alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Extremely poor judgement? No. I see due diligence.
    Wouldn't "due diligence" have been reporting this sort of improper solicitation to the appropriate authorities?
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Wouldn't "due diligence" have been reporting this sort of improper solicitation to the appropriate authorities?
    How do you find it improper? The email discusses official documents coming from a Russian prosecutor.

    The language about Russia being 'supportive' of Trump is Goldstone's so it's almost pointless to parse.

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    This smoking gun has had the same shelf life as every other one that has been released. Once it gets looked at rationale people determine it doesn't prove a thing.
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  14. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    How do you find it improper? The email discusses official documents coming from a Russian prosecutor.

    The language about Russia being 'supportive' of Trump is Goldstone's so it's almost pointless to parse.
    I think accepting stolen/leaked official documents from a foreign national seems pretty improper, yes. And even if Goldstone's credibility is in question, I find parsing his contribution to the email chain far from "pointless", especially since he appears to have been recruited as a broken for this information transfer.

    Even if Goldstone was just blowing smoke up Junior's ass, there's enough appearance of and potential for impropriety that I think "due diligence" isn't replying-all that he'd "love it, especially once patio weather roles around".
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  15. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    I think accepting stolen/leaked official documents from a foreign national seems pretty improper, yes. And even if Goldstone's credibility is in question find parsing his contribution to the email chain far from "pointless, especially since he appears to have been recruited as a broken for this information transfer.

    Even if Goldstone was just blowing smoke up Junior's ass, there's enough appearance of and potential for impropriety that I think "due diligence" isn't replying-all that he'd "love it, especially once patio weather roles around".
    Should he have informed the feds who have clearly proven to be completely partisan in their approach? If the evidence was clearly damning then due dilligence is what is required.

    How could the trump campaign have confidence that the government would do the right thing. The same government that knew of the Russia involvement for months before election day and chose to do nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Should he have informed the feds who have clearly proven to be completely partisan in their approach? If the evidence was clearly damning then due dilligence is what is required.

    How could the trump campaign have confidence that the government would do the right thing. The same government that knew of the Russia involvement for months before election day and chose to do nothing.
    Lol.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    I think accepting stolen/leaked official documents from a foreign national seems pretty improper, yes. And even if Goldstone's credibility is in question find parsing his contribution to the email chain far from "pointless, especially since he appears to have been recruited as a broken for this information transfer.

    Even if Goldstone was just blowing smoke up Junior's ass, there's enough appearance of and potential for impropriety that I think "due diligence" isn't replying-all that he'd "love it, especially once patio weather roles around".
    I don't see where it's implicit that these documents are being leaked, much less stolen. In fact, that they are official legal documents coming from a court is explicit. Hypothetically they could have even been public record.

    You perform due diligence to determine the legality of accepting/utilizing said documents.

  18. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Maybe it's because I don't see a difference between someone like Russia and an entity like the NYT or MSNBC.

    I know trump is an immoral man.
    Bless your poor, brainwashed down to your DNA heart.

    Not that it matters, but here's a difference:

    Russia wants to damage democracy and freedom. MSNBC and the NYT wants to preserve democracy and freedom.
    Last edited by Runnin; 07-12-2017 at 10:28 PM.
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  20. #157
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    My first comment in this thread regarded the fact that I think a lot of this is being overblown, or overemphasized, and otherwise is a waste of good, necessary anti-Trump, anti-regressive energies that should be better spent on more substantial battles. I've also made clear that I think President Pence could very likely be worse than President Trump, for my policy concerns and from my values perspective, so I'm not one of these folks rocking in the corner, blind, thirsty, foaming at the mouth for impeachment. I'll further elaborate that, in fact, I find the likelihood of real criminal prosecution, punishment, or even the anti-Trump needle being moved much from where it is to be quite small, barring much more substantial and legally-damning evidence arising.

    Having said all that, I find the two notions advanced in this thread equally specious, and bordering on absurd, in the own way. The first is that the Trump Family is some persecuted Mel Gibson from Conspiracy Theory, buffeted from all sides, unsure of who to trust, and forced to take up their own vigilante investigation to uncover dark truths for the greater good of the nation. The second is that it is laudable due-diligence to follow-up (with demonstrable avidity) with a foreign national promising leaked and/or stolen documents* to influence an election, with purported foreign government support of said intervention—even if said support was exaggerated or fabricated, and even if nothing ultimately came of said meeting.
    Last edited by jpx7; 07-12-2017 at 10:36 PM.
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  21. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by CK86 View Post
    Some people just like getting conned.
    A lot of lazy people do like the idea of voting for an authoritarian who they foolishly is just gonna fix all their problems. Being an informed voter is way too much work for most people.
    Last edited by Runnin; 07-13-2017 at 03:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I don't see where it's implicit that these documents are being leaked, much less stolen. In fact, that they are official legal documents coming from a court is explicit. Hypothetically they could have even been public record.
    Damn, dude: I expect this from some posters, but you're better than this.

    some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary
    That's the most elaborated the emails get about the information being offered, and no where there is it "explicit" that they are "official legal documents coming from a court"—though I assume you think it's implied since "The Crown prosecutor of Russia" is invoked? That's not enough for me to assume that the "official documents and information" (the latter of which could be unofficial information: adjectival conjunction is a grey area when not spelled out) are "official legal documents" (you added the "legal" descriptor)—much less for me to assume they might even be public record (how delightful a slide you took!).

    In fact it's alleged to be "high level and sensitive information"—"ultra sensitive" indeed—which to me implies the information is pretty explicitly not just some banal legal—maybe even easily, publicly accessible—papers shuffled out of some Russian court.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    The atmosphere of crisis was apparent at the White House itself and in the broader Trump orbit, where hatches were battened down amid the storm.

    At a press briefing that was conducted off camera and lasted 22 minutes, White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders repeatedly parried reporters’ questions on the emails by saying their queries should be directed to the personal lawyers of the people involved.


    Something got their attention.
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