Braves trading for Stroman?

[CyYoung31]

Sort of bummed we drafted a flat earth. Feels like a much lessor version of the round earth.

Supposedly Flat Earth has a higher ceiling.

[bravesfanMatt]

Supposedly Flat Earth has a higher ceiling.

Good point.

[Bravesfannchar]

I hear flat earth has a straight fastball and low spin rates.

[Enscheff]

Season over. Replace the entire BP and look forward to 2020.

[CyYoung31]

Season over. Replace the entire BP and look forward to 2020.

Wrong thread.

[cajunrevenge]

cajun: The earth is flat!! I've said so since it was drafted!!

zb: hmm, that's not what every scientist in the world says, what scientific experiments have you done to prove this?

clv: derp...what scientific experiments have YOU done to prove it's round?

everyone: dafuq?

You see, this is some good ****. I can appreciate it if its funny even if its at my expense. It amuses me that people here think that I cant or wont expand on my opinion beyond "Wright sucks donkey dick". I will probably be using your post on him as a starting point.

[zbhargrove]

cajun: The earth is flat!! I've said so since it was drafted!!

zb: hmm, that's not what every scientist in the world says, what scientific experiments have you done to prove this?

clv: derp...what scientific experiments have YOU done to prove it's round?

everyone: dafuq?

I snorted

[cajunrevenge]

"I already have. We will see how Kyle Lewis turns out compared to Ian Anderson. I have never waivered from that preference.


I'll go ahead and set my preferences for the Braves this year as Wright/Lewis tied with Gore right behind them. We can compare those picks to whichever under slot guy the Barves take this year.

Meanwhile, you can keep on posi-Barving day after day"



I wonder whose genius opinion this is.

[Enscheff]

I’m not sure what you are pointing out...

That I liked Kyle Lewis over Anderson in 2016? Or that I also liked Lewis/Gore/Wright over underslot options in 2017?

You realize Lewis’ career was ruined by a freak knee injury, right?

[cajunrevenge]

Probably just a coincidence that the 2 college players are **** and the the two HS players are top prospects. Although I instantly downgrade anyone for having a Jeter comp. Fangraphs said his knee was fine going into this year. Still almost 25 hitting .260 at AA.



My main goal hoping this would motivate you to try and find my postings about Wright from the draft threads because I didn't get to see it live and scouring through multiple 60 page threads is boring sober.

[zbhargrove]

Probably just a coincidence that the 2 college players are **** and the the two HS players are top prospects. Although I instantly downgrade anyone for having a Jeter comp. Fangraphs said his knee was fine going into this year. Still almost 25 hitting .260 at AA.



My main goal hoping this would motivate you to try and find my postings about Wright from the draft threads because I didn't get to see it live and scouring through multiple 60 page threads is boring sober.

We understand you always were lukewarm on Wright... the point is you never really gave any actual reasoning, numbers, or scouting reports to back it up. Your reasoning was basically just "he's a college player" which is silly

And yeah, that is just a coincidence... plenty of examples where college pitchers have turned into great MLB pitchers and recently:

Max Scherzer
David Price
Jacob deGrom
Corey Kluber
Trevor Bauer
Gerrit Cole
Verlander
Lance Lynn
Chris Sale
Sonny Gray
Patrick Corbin

Man look at those awful college pitchers!!! Sure hate to have those guys on my team. Pretty much most of the best starters in the majors were college pitchers.

[cajunrevenge]

He was not nearly as dominate in college as he should have been with 2 plus breaking balls. He can't throw them for strikes consistently enough and requires hitters to swing at them out of the strike zone which they do at the college and minor league level. His fastball isnt good enough to get ahead of hitters with to set up those breaking pitches. Generally it's the offspeed pitches that a pitcher needs to improve coming out of the draft. At his age I saw little reason to expect his fastball to improve. He was who he was when we drafted him and he is still that same pitcher. I like my prospects young as possible and put a lot of stock in age relative to level. I would be a lot higher on Wright if he had a plus fastball and 2 average or better breaking balls. He might improve the breaking balls. I doubt he will ever improve his fastball.



I am exaggerating out of rage when I say he is the worst prospect I have ever seen in 30 years. A pitcher with his profile is a decent pick in the 20's or later of the first round. He is severely lacking in upside because of his fastball which I have no reason to expect to improve. I think there exists a situation where almost any pitcher will succeed. Baseball is a funny sport. One day you think Jair Jurrjens is toast and the next he learns Venters Vulcan change up and pitches like Cy Young for half a season. Pretty sure Roy Halladay's career took off after learning a new pitch from a catcher.

[cajunrevenge]

Beuhler would be a great pick I just dont think we will get the chance to pick him. I think he could jump right to AA and add our glut of SP prospects in the high minors. Also like Thomas Eshelman if we could get him around pick #75 or so. Both could help the Braves by 2017 if not sooner.

.


Thankfully no one pointed out Buehler was 2015 and not the year Anderson was drafted.

[Super]

This is why most of the posters here have lost patience with you. You quote zbhargrove's post but leave out the second line, which is the key point:

"No substance in any of your posts from then... nothing to back your opinion up besides just saying words. No scouting to back you up, no numbers, no anything... so why am I supposed to be impressed? "

This is not difficult reasoning to follow. If cajunrevenge said something that disagreed with the more or less universal opinion of scouts at the time, he needs to back it up with a reason for the disagreement. In this case, Wright's stats were excellent, so he couldn't use those, and since he didn't cite any dissenting scouting reports, his only option left would've been scouting Wright himself, hence the zbhargrove post. On the other hand, zbhargrove was not disagreeing with the consensus, so he does not need to have watched any of Wright's college games.

i was going to try and lead that horse to water, but you did well. appreciated.

[cajunrevenge]

In reference to what was quoted above. I will post what I damn well please and I dont need to do anything because the "experts" all agree. None of us here knows what even 1% of pro scouts think. Atleast 4 teams scouts went with a player other than Wright and we dont know where he would have gone had the Braves not picked him.



Unlike most people here my opinion is my own. The chef actually puts a lot of thought and critical thinking into his opinions. Most of the rest of you are just parrots and cheerleaders for other peoples opinions. I dont do as much as I used to but I seek out as much information and scouting opinions as I can. Over the years I have developed my own personal scouting philosophy based on my experiences watching baseball and prospecting. Instead of jerking off in echo chambers I seek out differing opinions and continue to question and refine my personal scouting philosophy. I am not afraid of going against the grain. When/if my opinions are wrong you can bet your ass I will be here to take the **** for it. I never have and never will run from it. Being wrong and making mistakes is part of the learning process. I think some of you are so arrogant that you will never admit I was right about Wright even if he is pitching for the Royals in 2 years. He will probably have some fluky good half season 5 years from now for another team and one of you ****bergs will hold that up as proof I was wrong. So flame away. I got tired of kicking the Soroka "value" dead horse. I doubt I will get tired of kicking this horse once I am proven right.




edit - and despite all this I will still root for Wright to be successful as a Brave. I really do want to be wrong about Wright.

[cajunrevenge]

We understand you always were lukewarm on Wright... the point is you never really gave any actual reasoning, numbers, or scouting reports to back it up. Your reasoning was basically just "he's a college player" which is silly

And yeah, that is just a coincidence... plenty of examples where college pitchers have turned into great MLB pitchers and recently:

Max Scherzer
David Price
Jacob deGrom
Corey Kluber
Trevor Bauer
Gerrit Cole
Verlander
Lance Lynn
Chris Sale
Sonny Gray
Patrick Corbin

Man look at those awful college pitchers!!! Sure hate to have those guys on my team. Pretty much most of the best starters in the majors were college pitchers.

Well allow me to clarify a little. Price, Cole, and Strasburg were college starters I loved. You know what they had coming out of the draft that Wright didnt? Great fastballs. If I could choose a pitcher to have 1 elite pitch it would be the fastball(not counting Knuckleballs) My hate for college starters is about the early rounds. Specifically round 1. Less round 2 and 3 but still prefer HS talent. Beyond those rounds I am fine taking college starters. I do like taking college relievers as early as the third round. I never had a problem taking Junior College players and loved the draft and follow draft philosophy the Braves used for while.



Back in those draft threads I said that the best way to develop a winning team was to go heavy on HS talent for several years that generally take longer to develop and then go with college players that generally take less development time to create a glut of talent reaching the majors around the same time. I was somewhat okay with taking Wright because it fit that philosophy at the time.

[zbhargrove]

In reference to what was quoted above. I will post what I damn well please and I dont need to do anything because the "experts" all agree. None of us here knows what even 1% of pro scouts think. Atleast 4 teams scouts went with a player other than Wright and we dont know where he would have gone had the Braves not picked him.



Unlike most people here my opinion is my own. The chef actually puts a lot of thought and critical thinking into his opinions. Most of the rest of you are just parrots and cheerleaders for other peoples opinions. I dont do as much as I used to but I seek out as much information and scouting opinions as I can. Over the years I have developed my own personal scouting philosophy based on my experiences watching baseball and prospecting. Instead of jerking off in echo chambers I seek out differing opinions and continue to question and refine my personal scouting philosophy. I am not afraid of going against the grain. When/if my opinions are wrong you can bet your ass I will be here to take the **** for it. I never have and never will run from it. Being wrong and making mistakes is part of the learning process. I think some of you are so arrogant that you will never admit I was right about Wright even if he is pitching for the Royals in 2 years. He will probably have some fluky good half season 5 years from now for another team and one of you ****bergs will hold that up as proof I was wrong. So flame away. I got tired of kicking the Soroka "value" dead horse. I doubt I will get tired of kicking this horse once I am proven right.




edit - and despite all this I will still root for Wright to be successful as a Brave. I really do want to be wrong about Wright.

I’m a parrot, huh? I actually used numbers that I looked up on my own to back up my opinion, unlike you. I still haven’t seen anything to back your opinion up. Here’s what I said in this thread after pointing out he only pitched 16 or so innings in 2017:

“He pitched very good in 2018 with a 3.70 ERA/3.34 FIP/3.46 xFIP in AA
2.51 ERA/3.23 FIP/ 3.33 xFIP in AAA (and a walk rate of 2.51 per 9)”

Then I went on to look deeper into his 2019 to see what the big difference has been and it was obvious it’s really just been the homerun ball for some reason. All the other numbers are right in line with 2018.

Haven’t seen a single number or objective piece of data from you, yet I’m a “parrot” lol

[cajunrevenge]

Congratulations you learned how to navigate fangraphs. I gave you my reasonings a few posts up as to why I am not high on him. I put a lot of stock in age relative to league. If Wright was 20-21 putting up those minor league stats I would be impressed. 23 not so much.



And yes you are a chef parrot. Your were not this stat obsessed until he started dominating this forum. He has literally trained people into stat zombies. He actually knows what he is talking about. You are just trying to emulate.



But dont worry. Anytime now Wright is going to prove you right and you can all flame away on me for being wrong. You are going to have to get in line behind the Cody Johnson people though.

[rawwr]

In reference to what was quoted above. I will post what I damn well please and I dont need to do anything because the "experts" all agree. None of us here knows what even 1% of pro scouts think. Atleast 4 teams scouts went with a player other than Wright and we dont know where he would have gone had the Braves not picked him.



Unlike most people here my opinion is my own. The chef actually puts a lot of thought and critical thinking into his opinions. Most of the rest of you are just parrots and cheerleaders for other peoples opinions. I dont do as much as I used to but I seek out as much information and scouting opinions as I can. Over the years I have developed my own personal scouting philosophy based on my experiences watching baseball and prospecting. Instead of jerking off in echo chambers I seek out differing opinions and continue to question and refine my personal scouting philosophy. I am not afraid of going against the grain. When/if my opinions are wrong you can bet your ass I will be here to take the **** for it. I never have and never will run from it. Being wrong and making mistakes is part of the learning process. I think some of you are so arrogant that you will never admit I was right about Wright even if he is pitching for the Royals in 2 years. He will probably have some fluky good half season 5 years from now for another team and one of you ****bergs will hold that up as proof I was wrong. So flame away. I got tired of kicking the Soroka "value" dead horse. I doubt I will get tired of kicking this horse once I am proven right.




edit - and despite all this I will still root for Wright to be successful as a Brave. I really do want to be wrong about Wright.

slow your roll there chief, i was just explaining to clvclv why someone can ask if you scouted a player without having scouted that player themselves

that said it's weird to me that you praise enscheff for his critical thinking, but also post something that goes against what every resource we had available at the time was saying without explaining why and then get defensive when people want to know how you arrived at that conclusion. Instead of hemming and hawing about how persecuted you are on this board for 4 pages, why didn't you just say what you said in your last two posts [that weren't complaining about posters on the board]? you're free to post "what you damn well please," but if you do it without explaining your reasoning everyone else on the board is free to either ignore you or call you an idiot.

this isn't hard. how is anyone supposed to know you've "sought out differing opinions" and refined your "personal scouting philosophy" if you don't explain that?

[clvclv]

slow your roll there chief, i was just explaining to clvclv why someone can ask if you scouted a player without having scouted that player themselves

that said it's weird to me that you praise enscheff for his critical thinking, but also post something that goes against what every resource we had available at the time was saying without explaining why and then get defensive when people want to know how you arrived at that conclusion. Instead of hemming and hawing about how persecuted you are on this board for 4 pages, why didn't you just say what you said in your last two posts [that weren't complaining about posters on the board]? you're free to post "what you damn well please," but if you do it without explaining your reasoning everyone else on the board is free to either ignore you or call you an idiot.

this isn't hard. how is anyone supposed to know you've "sought out differing opinions" and refined your "personal scouting philosophy" if you don't explain that?

Don't hurt yourself trying to pat yourself on the back there - you didn't "explain" anything.

zbhargrove tried to make it sound like he had actually seen more of Wright's college starts than cajun did - he didn't once mention anything about where his info came from.

Go back and re-read post #186 - no mention of any FanGraphs article or data, no link to any scouting reports, nothing other than "I'm sure you watched a ton of his college starts lmao". Why not simply provide those numbers/scouting reports/etc. in the treasure chest of info he possesses?