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Thread: Braves sign Bautista

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    They will package him with Teheran and get the Angels' top ten prospects for them.
    All ten prospects bust.
    Go get him!

    Founding member of the Whiny Little Bitches and Pricks Club

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    If Bautista get a single PA at 3B over Camargo we should all be yelling at the FO.

    This is the season to see what Camargo is once and for all, not the season to let a washed up player soak up PAs.

    I'm guessing Bautista never sees any real playing time at the MLB level unless it's as a DH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    If Bautista get a single PA at 3B over Camargo we should all be yelling at the FO.

    This is the season to see what Camargo is once and for all, not the season to let a washed up player soak up PAs.

    I'm guessing Bautista never sees any real playing time at the MLB level unless it's as a DH.
    I'm mad camargo isn't getting a start tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    If Bautista get a single PA at 3B over Camargo we should all be yelling at the FO.

    This is the season to see what Camargo is once and for all, not the season to let a washed up player soak up PAs.

    I'm guessing Bautista never sees any real playing time at the MLB level unless it's as a DH.
    Is Bautista the NEW Kemp???

    I'm mad camargo isn't getting a start tonight.--- msstate7

    You're noit the Lone Ranger

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    Quote Originally Posted by salmagundy View Post
    Is Bautista the NEW Kemp???

    I'm mad camargo isn't getting a start tonight.--- msstate7

    You're noit the Lone Ranger
    He is. Difference is Coppy paid 18 million for Kemp. AA has Joey Bats on a minor league deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    He is. Difference is Coppy paid 18 million for Kemp. AA has Joey Bats on a minor league deal.
    Also, Bats stays in impeccable shape and Kemp was an enormous fat pig by the end of both years. If Joey doesn't make it, it won't be because he's out of shape. It'll be because he sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I'm mad camargo isn't getting a start tonight.
    Yeah, I guess they want to see if they can ride Flaherty as long as they can. There are guys who figure it out later, but not generally after six years of hitting .210.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    the tell is in the Ks
    Yep

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    Quote Originally Posted by GovClintonTyree View Post
    Yeah, I guess they want to see if they can ride Flaherty as long as they can. There are guys who figure it out later, but not generally after six years of hitting .210.
    I'd like to introduce you to Tyler Flowers.

    Kidding, of course.

    Just an opportunity to point out how many numbers-freaks have recently jumped onto his bandwagon while hoping no one wastes the time to search through old threads.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    I'd like to introduce you to Tyler Flowers.

    Kidding, of course.

    Just an opportunity to point out how many numbers-freaks have recently jumped onto his bandwagon while hoping no one wastes the time to search through old threads.


    derrrrrrppp
    Last edited by Enscheff; 04-19-2018 at 05:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    I'd like to introduce you to Tyler Flowers.

    Kidding, of course.

    Just an opportunity to point out how many numbers-freaks have recently jumped onto his bandwagon while hoping no one wastes the time to search through old threads.
    Are these the same number-freaks who think Flowers is one of the better catchers in the game due to his pitch framing or is that too mathy for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Are these the same number-freaks who think Flowers is one of the better catchers in the game due to his pitch framing or is that too mathy for you?
    Pays to have a short memory, doesn't it?

    None of you were interested in bringing him back because of his pitch framing - everyone said he couldn't hit and the numbers "proved it". There's no doubt he's beloved now because of his ability to steal strikes, but that wasn't talked about when he re-signed - only the fact that he wasn't good enough to be a full-time starter. Couldn't hit enough, couldn't throw anybody out.

    Newest, hottest metrics have a way of constantly changing the narrative.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Pays to have a short memory, doesn't it?

    None of you were interested in bringing him back because of his pitch framing - everyone said he couldn't hit and the numbers "proved it". There's no doubt he's beloved now because of his ability to steal strikes, but that wasn't talked about when he re-signed - only the fact that he wasn't good enough to be a full-time starter. Couldn't hit enough, couldn't throw anybody out.

    Newest, hottest metrics have a way of constantly changing the narrative.
    I'm sure you were excited to bring back a 30 year old catcher with a career 665 OPS. Flowers had always been a good pitch framer and turned into an excellent one his last year in Chicago which he still is. That said, no, I didn't think he could be a full time starter and neither did the Braves. But he forced himself into that role and has been a very good player since coming back. Players can change their narrative at 30 but it's not the norm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Pays to have a short memory, doesn't it?

    None of you were interested in bringing him back because of his pitch framing - everyone said he couldn't hit and the numbers "proved it". There's no doubt he's beloved now because of his ability to steal strikes, but that wasn't talked about when he re-signed - only the fact that he wasn't good enough to be a full-time starter. Couldn't hit enough, couldn't throw anybody out.

    Newest, hottest metrics have a way of constantly changing the narrative.
    Sorry, guy, but this is demonstrably false. From "Braves to sign Flowers" (8 December 2015):

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunit24 View Post
    I like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I like the money on this a lot, agree that it must spell the end of CB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    An interesting note according to a fangraphs article about Miller: Folty, Wisler and Miller were among the top 10-15 pitchers in baseball last year in being cheated out of strikes. Something like 59 extra strikes for Miller and in the 30s for Folty and Wisler.

    Having an excellent framer like Flowers might go a long way towards getting better performance out of these young starters.
    Quote Originally Posted by dak View Post
    Tyler Flowers was 6th in Baseball Prospectus' framing runs metric for catchers last year. CB was 85th and AJP was 101st out of 105.
    Quote Originally Posted by emk418 View Post
    Really like bringing Flowers in on the deal we did. Will compliment AJ and this young pitching staff nicely.
    Like, the consensus was literally the opposite of what you're saying it was. And I don't see one complaint about his bat.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    And I'll say, while I didn't comment in that thread, I'd personally just moved from Chicago, where I'd watched him for a couple seasons with the Sox and regretted that the Braves had felt the need to trade him.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Pays to have a short memory, doesn't it?

    None of you were interested in bringing him back because of his pitch framing - everyone said he couldn't hit and the numbers "proved it". There's no doubt he's beloved now because of his ability to steal strikes, but that wasn't talked about when he re-signed - only the fact that he wasn't good enough to be a full-time starter. Couldn't hit enough, couldn't throw anybody out.

    Newest, hottest metrics have a way of constantly changing the narrative.
    No, I think you're off a little bit here. Thing is, nearly all those metrics are looking backwards and using them, some in very granular and clever ways, to predict the future. And so you get some of the statisticians on here who are able to make very accurate predictions on future events, often using measurables that would have been unimaginable a few years ago. However -

    They're still predictions. There will be results 1-2 standard deviations from the mean. Seems to me a lot of the arguments around here are because one guy is making a prediction with a very useful statistical analysis and another guy says, well, yeah, but not necessarily, because he's [Lost weight. Figured something out. Changed his swing plane. Simplified his mechanics. Showed improved pitch recognition in a SSS in spring training. BSOML.] or he's got a hunch or feeling.

    I think it's better to manage a baseball franchise, or any other business, informed by whatever the data can tell you. But you should be informed, not governed.

    AA signing Jose Bautista is an example. Any number of statistical analyses would suggest that he is on the decline, unlikely to rebound. He hit .203 last year, had 170Ks, BABIP was only .230, and yet our new, statistically inclined GM decides to take a flyer on him. In the press conference, he mentioned that Bats keeps himself in impeccable shape and is unusually driven to succeed and not to bet against him.

    That's talk that would get a poster ridiculed around here. But Anthopoulos, at least for now, gets a pass because things are looking pretty good and he's hit on a number of unlikely acquisitions. I'm sure he knows Bautista K'ed 170 times last year and hit .203 with a .232 BABIP. But he's choosing to be informed by data, rather than letting the data govern him. I'm okay with that, what about you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Sorry, guy, but this is demonstrably false. From "Braves to sign Flowers" (8 December 2015):







    Like, the consensus was literally the opposite of what you're saying it was. And I don't see one complaint about his bat.
    LOL....

    clv gonna clv...derrrrppp

    I'm guessing we don't hear from him in this thread again haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GovClintonTyree View Post
    They're still predictions. There will be results 1-2 standard deviations from the mean. Seems to me a lot of the arguments around here are because one guy is making a prediction with a very useful statistical analysis and another guy says, well, yeah, but not necessarily, because he's [Lost weight. Figured something out. Changed his swing plane. Simplified his mechanics. Showed improved pitch recognition in a SSS in spring training. BSOML.] or he's got a hunch or feeling.
    Indeed.

    A lot of people (myself included) liked the Flowers signing because he could take a walk and hit for some power, even if his average wasn't very good, and he was/is an excellent pitch-framer—all key things to see from a catcher on your roster, whether he's a backup or a lower-end to middling starter. All told, Flowers was a good bet; then he bloomed out of his likeliest outcomes and became a great payout on what was "only" a good bet.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Sorry, guy, but this is demonstrably false. From "Braves to sign Flowers" (8 December 2015):




    Like, the consensus was literally the opposite of what you're saying it was. And I don't see one complaint about his bat.
    Lol... Well done

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    Remember that time clvderpclv said, "None of you were interested in bringing him back because of his pitch framing", and then jpx7 quoted me as saying, "Having an excellent framer like Flowers might go a long way towards getting better performance out of these young starters" along with several other posts touting his framing in the thread about signing Flowers?

    derrrpppp

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