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Thread: Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Then why was Coppy fired, and Hart is still around despite every single story stating there is no way Hart wasn't involved?

    Why is Glavine, a proud dinosaur, being considered for a FO position?

    Is it really this hard to read between the lines here? Oh wait, that's right, Hart says he was a "stats guy" as the bench coach....and now Weiss is the leading candidate. LOL...ok. Real modern thinkers in the Braves FO!
    I do hope you remember that Coppy was promoted by Hart despite his reputation as an analytics guru. It's not as if Coppy came out of the closet as a numbers lovers so the team decided to railroad him.

    For someone that's analytically trained to think logically based on evidence and data, you seem very willy nilly to toss that to the side when it's convenient for you.

    If Hart ends up hiring a scouting type that is dismissive of sabermetrics, then I'll be right by your side waiting for the meteor to wipe out the dinosaurs again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Savvy business move to market around a guy who is then so bad he needs to be sent down? I bet the fans were lining up to see that!

    I realize you guys want to spin this stuff as pozzy as possible, but nothing about the Swanson promotion was good.
    Yes, prospects fall on their face sometimes. It was business decision. I don't know why you have to be so incessant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Yes, prospects fall on their face sometimes. It was business decision. I don't know why you have to be so incessant.
    I don't know why you insist on revising history. Swanson was called up because Hart suggested it out of the blue. It was not some well thought out business strategy designed to hype the new stadium and sell 10k t-shirts.

    Do I need to search for the Coppy interview where he told us exactly that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I don't know why you insist on revising history. Swanson was called up because Hart suggested it out of the blue. It was not some well thought out business strategy designed to hype the new stadium and sell 10k t-shirts.

    Do I need to search for the Coppy interview where he told us exactly that?
    If you know where it is I'd like to hear it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Then why was Coppy fired, and Hart is still around despite every single story stating there is no way Hart wasn't involved?

    Why is Glavine, a proud dinosaur, being considered for a FO position?

    Is it really this hard to read between the lines here? Oh wait, that's right, Hart says he was a "stats guy" as the bench coach....and now Weiss is the leading candidate. LOL...ok. Real modern thinkers in the Braves FO!
    Well for one, not every single article says that. What is the popular OPINION is that Hart either knew and was complicit or was absent in his doing his job and let Coppy run wild. Either way, Hart comes out looking bad. And I do believe he needs to go, no matter what the outcome. Perhaps he, too, will not last the investigation.

    Glavine is an organizational icon and very well respected around baseball. He shouldn't be considered a GM candidate quite yet, but he's had plenty of experience as the head of the Players Union. Given such info, it isn't hard to imagine the FO with whom he spent the majority of his HOF career with would be open to bringing him along in some sort of capacity. It also isn't unprecedented among the baseball world. Maddux was signed as the Assistant to GM Jim Hendry almost immediately after his retirement, and he's been at similar roles with the Rangers and Dodgers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I don't know why you insist on revising history. Swanson was called up because Hart suggested it out of the blue. It was not some well thought out business strategy designed to hype the new stadium and sell 10k t-shirts.

    Do I need to search for the Coppy interview where he told us exactly that?
    Sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    I'm guessing if you're old you don't believe in sabermetrics and if you're young then you do? I'm guessing a millenial came up with that one and ran with it like the baby boomer/millenial argument.

    One of the arguments that has been confirmed has been between Billy Ryan who we know is statistically inclined since he created the analytical software we've been using and Coppy. Ryan is 36 and Coppy is 38. I don't think age has as much to do with beliefs as some assume it does.
    But, but...
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Sure.
    Am I the only person that finds that someone would waste the time to do that at least slightly comical?

    Geez...somebody desperately needs a life.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Am I the only person that finds that someone would waste the time to do that at least slightly comical?

    Geez...somebody desperately needs a life.
    Why don't you spend some time telling us all how the Braves can get Odorizzi for Matt Adams?

    Or maybe tell us how Castellanos would be a good option at 3B?
    Last edited by Enscheff; 10-18-2017 at 01:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Why don't you spend some time telling us all how the Braves can get Odorizzi for Matt Adams?

    Or maybe tell us how Castellanos would be a good option at 3B?
    I actually liked that blog...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdcox View Post
    I actually liked that blog...
    The one where he regurgitated the ideas from this board as if they were his own, suggests blowing a year of Acuna's control rather than letting the $30M LF platoon handle the corners for 2 weeks, and demonstrated yet again how completely clueless he is about the trade values of players (Matt Adams and Jake Odorizzi)? It wasn't quite as bad as his genius "Sale for Jenkins and fodder" proposal, but it's still pretty ignorant.

    Yeah, brilliant work! He should stick to handing out realty pamphletes in trailer parks.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 10-18-2017 at 01:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdcox View Post
    I actually liked that blog...
    What's sad is that he read it - I actually thought I had a better class of readers.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    What's sad is that he read it - I actually thought I had a better class of readers.
    What's sad is there wasn't a single new idea in the article. Every single point was stolen directly from ideas posters on this board wrote weeks ago.

    What's doubly sad is you offered zero analysis as to why you picked the FAs you did, nor did you try to project what they would cost. You simply picked names out of a hat like a common ESPN board poster.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 10-18-2017 at 02:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I don't know why you insist on revising history. Swanson was called up because Hart suggested it out of the blue. It was not some well thought out business strategy designed to hype the new stadium and sell 10k t-shirts.

    Do I need to search for the Coppy interview where he told us exactly that?

    Certainly Coppy said that he'd never thought about promoting Swanson. I don't really believe he'd never considered it, but I'll accept that he didn't think it was a good idea, because I didn't think it was a bad idea.

    Either way, Coppy never having thought of it doesn't mean that Hart had not. It seems pretty clear that someone had decided Swanson would likely start at SS in 2017. Once they'd made that decision it made more sense than no sense to go ahead and promote him. I'd argue it would still have been better to carry that decision into spring training. But theoretically if Swanson had bombed in 2016 rather than get very lucky, they had the option of signing a short term solution over the winter.

    I don't think anyone is sitting around saying NERRRDDDDS and positioning themselves as anti-analysis. They gave Coppy the gig after all in part based on that background. If there was some NERD shaming, it was more likely his social and management skills that brought him down. That's really how I read their unwillingness to give him the GM job. Not his philosophy but his ability to handle people.

    I totally agree that the Braves navel grazing about their own past and greatness is annoying and I would like to see them hire someone from outside and let that person have control with no one looking over their shoulder. Hiring within the family is almost always a dumb, dumb decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    What's sad is that he read it - I actually thought I had a better class of readers.

    That was a pretty good zing, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    That was a pretty good zing, I think.
    Of course you do. You and clv exist at the same plane of baseball knowledge.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 10-18-2017 at 03:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Of course you do. You and clv exist at the same plane of baseball knowledge.

    maybe, but the zing wasn't baseball related.

    It popped a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Savvy business move to market around a guy who is then so bad he needs to be sent down? I bet the fans were lining up to see that!

    I realize you guys want to spin this stuff as pozzy as possible, but nothing about the Swanson promotion was good.
    The goal in calling up Swanson was to create some buzz at the end of last year that the Braves could use to sell season tickets. They leaned heavily on marketing Swanson throughout the offseason. He gave them exactly what they needed at that point.

    That being said, it wasn't a good baseball move and there aren't many saying it was. The point I'm making is that the decision to call him up wasn't because some old school baseball guy thought it was time and ignored the objections of new analytical folks. The decision wasn't motivated by baseball considerations at all.

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    I have a number of theories based on what I've read, and none are particularly good, but I do have to agree that Coppolella got scapegoated. My biggest one is this (based off of a guy on another board's "inside sources", and no I don't mean Jeff Wren):

    What happened in Latin America are sketchy practices the Braves have partaken in for several years, and it's actually encouraged by the old guard, but Coppolella wasn't careful and spilled the beans on it, which has John Schuerholz completely furious at him.

    He said that this investigation might date back to him as GM.
    Aggression with prospects is fine, but being stupid is not. There should be a way to find a happy medium between a Pirates like idea of being overly cautious with prospects and going stupidly fast with prospects.

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    I asked about Matt Adams for Odorizzi:

    Nick S
    6:00 Odorizzi to the Braves for Matt Adams?
    Jason Martinez
    6:00 Rays got Logan Morrison for $2.5MM. It's easy to find a good value at 1B. They don't need to trade a very good SP to replace him. Adams could be a fit, but probably for a mid-level prospect or two.

    So no, the Braves are not getting Odorizzi for Matt Adams despite the double wide sellers brilliant blueprint.

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