2016 Baseball Hall of Fame Discussion

[Horsehide Harry]

Just a few swing and a whiffs and a few whiffs at the gold club for Andruw.

Made a lot of nice girls happy

[The Chosen One]

it would be incredible for him to get in.. But then you can say we had 5 HOF and a HOF coach on the same team for many years and only have 1 WS to show for it. That is just not right..

But it is... we were consistent in the regular season and consistent in the postseason.

[bravesfanMatt]

But it is... we were consistent in the regular season and consistent in the postseason.

I still think the 96 series is the jinx for us. up 2 - 0 and leading game 3.. then Loseritz turns that series around. I think if we win that series.. we have 2 or 3 more titles...

[Julio3000]

Made a lot of nice girls happy

Yeah, what kind of tipper was he? That might have some bearing.

[The Chosen One]

Yeah, what kind of tipper was he? That might have some bearing.

And did he smile after he struck out asking girls to come home?

Need to know if he cared about paying for girl's college as much as he did nonchalantly catching balls in CF.
[MENTION=36]Prikichi[/MENTION]

[Horsehide Harry]

And did he smile after he struck out asking girls to come home?

Need to know if he cared about paying for girl's college as much as he did nonchalantly catching balls in CF.
[MENTION=36]Prikichi[/MENTION]

Humanitarian all the way around.

Also, be willing to bet he didn't strike out much as long as he wasn't in love with just one....

[thewupk]

I personally don't think a 10 year run as a premium position player is enough. I love A. Jones.. I just think the way he fell off will hurt him. If he would have just retired after 2007 then a case could be made..

It's the Dale Murphy effect to a degree. If Andruw had retired and not lingered on like Koufax he likely gets in. But yeah if you are good enough in that 10 year span then you should be voted in. From like 97-2006 he had the 3rd highet WAR of all position players behind Bonds and Arod. Andruw is a borderline HOF but likely won't get in because people love to remember how you finished instead of how you started.

[rico43]

Andruw had 10 Gold Gloves; Edmonds had eight. Figure in that means an entire decade of being the best at his position, along with 434 homers, it's a crying shame that there isn't any kind of movement for him to make it. I fear he will be the bookend to Dale Murphy's lack of appreciation; the difference is being his being part of so many division and league champions.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Congrats to my favorite non-Brave of all time in Ken Griffey Jr. That guy was awesome, I would stay up late to watch the M's after the Braves just to see that pretty swing night after night. There isn't one player ever that I ever wanted more in a Braves uniform, and I wanted it to come to fruition so badly in 2000? but it never happened. Too bad about the injuries, but the guy was just awesome. Even when he was in the twighlight of his career and done, I still wanted to see him a Braves uniform, but I got Garrett Anderson instead. LOL

What a pretty swing
Awesome defense
Fast on the basepaths
and a smart smart player

and had fun doing it and wasn't afraid to show it. You did it right.

Congrats and Thanks Mr. Griffey

[Julio3000]

Congrats to my favorite non-Brave of all time in Ken Griffey Jr. That guy was awesome, I would stay up late to watch the M's after the Braves just to see that pretty swing night after night. There isn't one player ever that I ever wanted more in a Braves uniform, and I wanted it to come to fruition so badly in 2000? but it never happened. Too bad about the injuries, but the guy was just awesome. Even when he was in the twighlight of his career and done, I still wanted to see him a Braves uniform, but I got Garrett Anderson instead. LOL

What a pretty swing
Awesome defense
Fast on the basepaths
and a smart smart player

and had fun doing it and wasn't afraid to show it. You did it right.

Congrats and Thanks Mr. Griffey

Yeah, word to all of that. He was my favorite non-Brave, too. One of my favorite non-Braves baseball memories is of watching him take BP in Yankee Stadium during his prime with the M's. That gorgeous swing, and one effortless-looking rocket after another would arch into the black seats in CF . . . these shots were going 430-450, and he made it look easy.

[The Chosen One]

It's the Dale Murphy effect to a degree. If Andruw had retired and not lingered on like Koufax he likely gets in. But yeah if you are good enough in that 10 year span then you should be voted in. From like 97-2006 he had the 3rd highet WAR of all position players behind Bonds and Arod. Andruw is a borderline HOF but likely won't get in because people love to remember how you finished instead of how you started.

I believe the same crew of voters that was in love with Tim Raines will make a push for Andruw. Brian Kenny in particular has been a huge advocate on TV for saber. He's especially in love with WAR, was on MLBN yesterday to tell the old guys Tim Raines is a Top 5 left fielder of all time. Like you said from 97 to 2006 Andruw had the 3rd highest WAR of all position players behind Bonds and A-Rod. And look at those two now, A-Rod will never make the Hall after 1) Admitting he did it to apologize and rebuild his image, then 2)Got caught and suspended for an entire year.

Bonds may make it eventually but his numbers are still shrouded in doubt. That leaves Andruw as clean and legit. Have never heard any suspicions about Andruw so that's good.

The Tim Raines push was started a few years ago, and if it carries on then someone like Andruw will get in. I don't know how many more years left McGriff has, but I think he's starting to get a lot of love by writers for hitting 493 homers clean in a juiced era.

Edmonds had 390 homers, Andruw 430. And Andruw's prime was easily better than Edmonds. Andruw has a stronger case than Jimmy.

And again, Andruw is the greatest defensive centerfielder of all time (or to some right after Mays). If Ozz gets in solely on defense, then Andruw had two monster offensive years and a bunch of great years. And being the best ever to patrol CF aint' too shabby. I only regret we didn't get farther than the NLDS in 2005. If we had gotten to the WS, that season would have been because of Andruw. And it makes me sad he missed Ausmus' triple off the wall in center at Houston. I thought when he jumped he had it.

[bravesnumberone]

I'm all for Andruw going in. Just can't see it happening within his first few years. Maybe eventually. But it will depend on younger voters honoring defense.

[zitothebrave]

I don't. I'm confident with the old voter pool erased and the more modern crowd thay Andruw may not be first ballot but he'll get in. I think Edmonds is a casualty of overcrowded ballot which should clear some by the time we get to Andruw. Trammell will be off. Raines will be off. McGriff? Edgar too I believe?

I think if Andruw gets past the first year he makes it on the 3rd ballot.

I hope people don't Forget Andruw was the real mvp in 2005. We don't even win the wild card without him that year

You can hope. For me Edmonds is 100% a hall of famer. Andruw is a bit better, and his peak fits better, But him and Edmonds are really close. Edmonds was a lot better offensively and no slouch defensively.

And I don't I think the other important thing is that while some of those guys will be off, others will be on.

Starting with the year Druw is in

Rolen, Chipper, Thome, Damon, Halladay, Helton, Rivera, Pettitte (who'll be bounced cause of not being a great steroid player), Jeter, Abreu.

Now, of course not all of those guys are going to get in. SOme will be bounced, and maybe hard, but they're all guys who'll clog the ballot, not to mention guys like Vlad, Manny, and Pudge who'll all be on the ballot, just not sure if they get in.

[The Chosen One]

Well then we need to campaign for him by tweeting things to members of the BBWAA on behalf of Andruw such as he had the 3rd best war for position players from 97 to 06 without PED.

[The Chosen One]

Yesterday on MLBN they had a roundtable with Verducci, Heyman, Rosenthal, Gammons, and Sherman. Sherman made the case for Mussina on air saying he had a comparable ERA+ to Christi Mathewson and that took some of the guys by surprise and said it was something they didnt know about moose to be mentioned in the same breathe as Mathewson.

[zitothebrave]

Well then we need to campaign for him by tweeting things to members of the BBWAA on behalf of Andruw such as he had the 3rd best war for position players from 97 to 06 without PED.

Indeed. I think the stat to look at right now with Druw is in 2018 when he enters, assuming Chipper is in first Ballot (which shouldn't be a question) only Schilling, Bagwell, Bonds, and Clemens had a better peak than him (B-Ref uses a WAR7 which combines the 7 best seasons to the traditional peak)

And all the guys above him should be in too.

The really interesting one that's up in 2018 (unless he gets back to the bigs) is Johan Santana. His peak is amazing, right behind Druw's but that's also basically his entire value. His career was pretty much 7 years before injuries ravaged him. Wonder if he'll get in on the Kaufax clause.

[zitothebrave]

Yesterday on MLBN they had a roundtable with Verducci, Heyman, Rosenthal, Gammons, and Sherman. Sherman made the case for Mussina on air saying he had a comparable ERA+ to Christi Mathewson and that took some of the guys by surprise and said it was something they didnt know about moose to be mentioned in the same breathe as Mathewson.

Moose and Schilling absolutely should be in the hall of fame.

[The Chosen One]

Not doubting that.

What I'm saying is, the guys of baseball journalism stature that Sherman was talking to, didn't even know that about Moose (and I think most of them voted for him anyways). If we stump for Andruw on social media (particularly twitter since they all have one), they could be examining Andruw's resume now instead of when the year comes.

We can do it!

[The Chosen One]

Speaking of which:

Manny - Failed two drug tests. Don't see how any writer votes him in. This isn't a giving benefit of the doubt thing, this is actual proof.
A-Rod - Admitted to using steroids to Katie Couric, apologized. Years later suspended for involvement with biogenesis. I think a lot of writers will treat him like McGwire.
Clemens - Still gets support. Threw his own trainer under the bus. Probably gets in.
Bonds - Has never definitively been caught. Assumed he took it after 1999 because of body transformation. My think is, testing started after 2002? He was still putting up monstrous numbers after the MLBPA and MLB instated drug testing for PED's.

[Knucksie]

Andruw had 10 Gold Gloves; Edmonds had eight. Figure in that means an entire decade of being the best at his position, along with 434 homers, it's a crying shame that there isn't any kind of movement for him to make it. I fear he will be the bookend to Dale Murphy's lack of appreciation; the difference is being his being part of so many division and league champions.

Gold Gloves don't impress that many voters though. It's icing on the cake with other factors. Ozzie Smith was really the only HOFer, who got in mostly for defensive ability. Brooks Robinson hit very well, and was an integral part of championship teams. Bill Mazeroski got in through Veteran's Committee vote.

Andruw Jones's drop-off from last season with Braves and his horrible stint with the Dodgers taints his career. He was never "best of the best" in any offensive category. That's what they want to see. If they'd won in '96, he would've been series MVP. Then he would've needed more outstanding seasons to enhance his candidacy. As it stands, any sentiment for him is Braves fan homerism.