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Thread: Update on catcher WAR on Fangraphs

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    Update on catcher WAR on Fangraphs

    It looks like they’ve included framing in overall value. Of note, it makes Brian McCann look like a HOFer with about 55 career WAR including an 8.9 season.

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    Mac with 8.9 WAR in only 145 games...

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    Last season, Suzuki 1.0 (105 games) and flowers 2.5 (82 games)

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    It also makes Flowers slightly less valuable than Realmuto from 2016-2018 in 139 fewer games.
    "Acuna is getting lucky, just like CJ did when he batted .321 and won a batting title. He is unlikely to get lucky at the MLB level over an extended period of time. He will settle in around .300-.320 just like everyone else, and when he does, he won't be within shouting distance of the 1.000 OPS he is posting in AAA...more like low .700s in 2018." -Enscheff 8/25/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    It also makes Flowers slightly less valuable than Realmuto from 2016-2018 in 139 fewer games.
    Indeed.

    Fangraphs depth charts has the Phillies catching WAR at 4.3 for 2019 and the Braves with 3.6. And that is with them including zips projections with doesn't account for this like Steamer does.

    Maybe there was a reason the Braves didn't up their offer for JTR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Mac with 8.9 WAR in only 145 games...
    He was a beast early in his career.

    This also has Mac with the most WAR of any catcher since him came into the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    He was a beast early in his career.

    This also has Mac with the most WAR of any catcher since him came into the league.
    Him = BAAAD MAN.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Interesting note. 3 of the pitchers with the highest increase in WAR from this are Huddy JJ and Hanson

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Indeed.

    Fangraphs depth charts has the Phillies catching WAR at 4.3 for 2019 and the Braves with 3.6. And that is with them including zips projections with doesn't account for this like Steamer does.

    Maybe there was a reason the Braves didn't up their offer for JTR
    That was my argument all along...that if you trust the framing value at all, and I'm assuming the Braves do, it didn't make sense to pay a ton for JTR.
    "Acuna is getting lucky, just like CJ did when he batted .321 and won a batting title. He is unlikely to get lucky at the MLB level over an extended period of time. He will settle in around .300-.320 just like everyone else, and when he does, he won't be within shouting distance of the 1.000 OPS he is posting in AAA...more like low .700s in 2018." -Enscheff 8/25/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippyjms View Post
    Interesting note. 3 of the pitchers with the highest increase in WAR from this are Huddy JJ and Hanson
    Mac and Ross helped with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    That was my argument all along...that if you trust the framing value at all, and I'm assuming the Braves do, it didn't make sense to pay a ton for JTR.
    Agreed. A healthy Flowers is really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippyjms View Post
    Interesting note. 3 of the pitchers with the highest increase in WAR from this are Huddy JJ and Hanson
    Wouldn't that be double counting. You want to give the credit for wins to either the catcher or the pitcher. As a matter of fact, I would think that a pitcher's WAR needs to be adjusted down if he is working with a really good framer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    That was my argument all along...that if you trust the framing value at all, and I'm assuming the Braves do, it didn't make sense to pay a ton for JTR.
    I just didn't see the point of spending big on Realmuto if that is all you were going to do.

    If you'd added ... Haniger and Kimbrell or something then maybe. But to me Realmuto seemed a little too incremental on his own to justify a big cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Agreed. A healthy Flowers is really good.
    It is close to spring time

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Wouldn't that be double counting. You want to give the credit for wins to either the catcher or the pitcher. As a matter of fact, I would think that a pitcher's WAR needs to be adjusted down if he is working with a really good framer.
    I’m not sure I agree with that. I mean, would you say Maddux would be less valuable because of his catcher? I’m using an extreme but still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4maddux_cy's View Post
    I’m not sure I agree with that. I mean, would you say Maddux would be less valuable because of his catcher? I’m using an extreme but still.
    Would his numbers be the same throwing to the best framer vs the worst framer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Wouldn't that be double counting. You want to give the credit for wins to either the catcher or the pitcher. As a matter of fact, I would think that a pitcher's WAR needs to be adjusted down if he is working with a really good framer.
    You are correct. They may be accounting for this, but I haven’t looked into it enough to confirm. I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt though.

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