Debbie Downer maybe but I just don't see the optimism

[Horsehide Harry]

So, how does everyone see the lineup setting up?

CF - Inciarte
2B - Albies
1B - Freeman
C - Flowers/Suzuki
RF - Markakis
3B - Camargo
SS - Swanson
LF - LAdams

That's about as mediocre a ML offensive lineup as you will see.

Of course, Acuna will likely be up quick. But where does he fit? 3rd with Freeman moving to clean up? Clean Up? 5th? 8th?

As it is the 2018 lineup is too LH. All the RH bats are unproven or old (C).

If things go right and Riley shows he's ready and Acuna is everything we hope then the 2019 line up will suddenly be too RH, although I think the balance will be better.

This is going to be an ugly offense.

[Southcack77]

I would bat Markakis 2nd probably. Any event, that is a pretty terrble lineup.

Inciarte
Markakis
Freeman
Flowers
Adams?
Swanson
Camargo
Albies?


Ugh.

[thewupk]

I would bat Markakis 2nd probably. Any event, that is a pretty terrble lineup.

Inciarte
Markakis
Freeman
Flowers
Adams?
Swanson
Camargo
Albies?


Ugh.

Opening day? Who knows. I suspect a month in and Albies will be hitting 2nd. Neck will continue to regress to a pretty looking average but nothing else to go with it hitter.

[Southcack77]

Opening day? Who knows. I suspect a month in and Albies will be hitting 2nd. Neck will continue to regress to a pretty looking average but nothing else to go with it hitter.

He gets on base -- at least when we last saw him. That's his greatest talent at this point.

[thewupk]

He gets on base -- at least when we last saw him. That's his greatest talent at this point.

Still a below average hitter with poor speed. Albies will be a better fit even if he gets on base slightly less.

[Hudson2]

Yeah that lineup sucks. Once Acuna is up I’d go with this.

Inciarte
Albies
Freeman
Flowers
Markakis
Acuna
Swanson
Camargo

[The Chosen One]

Yeah that lineup sucks. Once Acuna is up I’d go with this.

Inciarte
Albies
Freeman
Flowers
Markakis
Acuna
Swanson
Camargo

This lineup aged well.

[nsacpi]

So, how does everyone see the lineup setting up?

CF - Inciarte
2B - Albies
1B - Freeman
C - Flowers/Suzuki
RF - Markakis
3B - Camargo
SS - Swanson
LF - LAdams

That's about as mediocre a ML offensive lineup as you will see.

Of course, Acuna will likely be up quick. But where does he fit? 3rd with Freeman moving to clean up? Clean Up? 5th? 8th?

As it is the 2018 lineup is too LH. All the RH bats are unproven or old (C).

If things go right and Riley shows he's ready and Acuna is everything we hope then the 2019 line up will suddenly be too RH, although I think the balance will be better.

This is going to be an ugly offense.

I think you have it pegged. Once Acuna comes in I think he will initially be slotted in the #6 spot behind Markakis.

I don't think the lineup is too LH. We have RH hitters at catcher, left (Acuna) and short. The two switch hitters (Albies and Camargo) are both stronger from the right side. Two of the three LH hitters (Freeman and Inciarte) hit lefties well. The only one who should occasionally be sat against left-handed pitching is Muk.

When we upgrade in left (with Acuna moving to right) and third, I think it makes sense that one is a lefty and one is a righty hitter. Or one is a switch hitter. It would not make sense to get two righty hitters or two lefty hitters.

[Enscheff]

Based on 2018 projections, the lineup optimization tool says (4.453 runs per game):

Markakis
Freeman
Albies
Flowers
Acuna
Inciarte
Swanson
Camargo
Pitcher

There are many different lineups that produce 4.45+ runs per game. In general, they have:

- Marakis leading off due to his high OBP
- Freeman batting 2nd due to being the best overall hitter
- Albies, Flowers and Acuna in the 3-4-5 spots
- Inciarte and Swanson in the 6-7 spots
- Camargo batting 8th
- Pitcher batting 9th since the Braves don't have a decent OBP guy with zero power to bat 9th.

I like the optimized lineup. However, common sense tells us the Braves are not going to bat Freeman 2nd, and I think Swanson will handle being pitched around in the 8th slot better than Camargo. Therefore, my lineup would be:

Markakis
Albies
Freeman
Flowers
Acuna
Inciarte
Camargo
Swanson
Pitcher

But we all know Inciarte will lead off because he's "speedy" (despite his average sprint speed), and Markakis will once again be miscast as a middle of the order hitter and will bat 5th. The lineup WILL be:

Inciarte
Albies
Freeman
Flowers
Markakis
Acuna
Camargo
Swanson
Pitcher

[thethe]

Markakis continues to be undervalued. Statheads had it right initially. OBP is tremendously valuable and you know you'll get somewhere around .350 from him.

[thewupk]

Markakis continues to be undervalued. Statheads had it right initially. OBP is tremendously valuable and you know you'll get somewhere around .350 from him.

OBP is more valuable than it shows in OPS but let's not get excited here. Neck is a mid to high 90's WRC+ hitter. There is only so much you can do with that.

[zitothebrave]

Markakis continues to be undervalued. Statheads had it right initially. OBP is tremendously valuable and you know you'll get somewhere around .350 from him.

If Markakis was a plus defender he would be valuable. But he's not we know that. He's a negative defender and as a RF a negative hitter. RF, LF and 1B are the most offensive first positions. If you aren't a plus bat you're typically a minus value there. And you can't argue that Marakis is a plus bat. He's a decent bat, an acceptable bat, but not plus. Markakis if he was playing Shortstop with this stat line or 2B or especially catcher would be hella awesome. But position scarcity exists for a reason. It's a lot easier to play the corner OF than pretty much any other position in baseball.

[nsacpi]

Based on 2018 projections, the lineup optimization tool says (4.453 runs per game):

Markakis
Freeman
Albies
Flowers
Acuna
Inciarte
Swanson
Camargo
Pitcher

There are many different lineups that produce 4.45+ runs per game. In general, they have:

- Marakis leading off due to his high OBP.
- Freeman batting 2nd due to being the best overall hitter.
- Albies, Flowers and Acuna in the 3-4-5 spots
- Inciarte and Swanson in the 6-7 spots
- Camargo batting 8th
- Pitcher batting 9th since the Braves don't have a decent OBP guy with zero power to bat 9th.

I like the optimized lineup. However, common sense tells us the Braves are not going to bat Freeman 2nd, and I think Swanson will handle being pitched around in the 8th slot better than Camargo. Therefore, my lineup would be:

Markakis
Albies
Freeman
Flowers
Acuna
Inciarte
Camargo
Swanson
Pitcher

But we all know Inciarte will lead off because he's "speedy" (despite his average sprint speed), and Markakis will once again be miscast as a middle of the order hitter and will bat 5th. The lineup WILL be:

Inciarte
Albies
Freeman
Flowers
Markakis
Acuna
Camargo
Swanson
Pitcher

The projection systems seem to break down a bit on Inciarte as we have discussed before. Steamer is projecting his OPS this season at .339, even though he has been at .350 and .351 the past two seasons.

In contract, Steamer projects Muk at .347. Similar to his .346 and .354 of the past two seasons.

It seems to me both Inciarte and Muk should be projected around .350. If you proceed from that, it makes sense to have Inciarte rather than Muk hit leadoff.

[Enscheff]

The projection systems seem to break down a bit on Inciarte as we have discussed before. Steamer is projecting his OPS this season at .339, even though he has been at .350 and .351 the past two seasons.

In contract, Steamer projects Muk at .347. Similar to his .346 and .354 of the past two seasons.

It seems to me both Inciarte and Muk should be projected around .350. If you proceed from that, it makes sense to have Inciarte rather than Muk hit leadoff.

I could certainly be convinced that Inciarte outperforming his xwOBA is a real skill set he possesses. He checks off all the criteria I've determined contribute to it (average or better speed, batting LHed, evenly spraying batted balls, low FB%).

If they are essentially equal hitters, and Inciarte is unquestionably the better base runner, I have no real issue with him leading off.

[nsacpi]

the big question is how Freddie will hit without his protector

[bravesfanMatt]

the big question is how Freddie will hit without his protector

Kemp cast a Yuge shadow. He protected him from SD before getting here. So it is safe to assume he can still protect him from LA.

[BeanieAntics]

The projection systems seem to break down a bit on Inciarte as we have discussed before. Steamer is projecting his OPS this season at .339, even though he has been at .350 and .351 the past two seasons.

In contract, Steamer projects Muk at .347. Similar to his .346 and .354 of the past two seasons.

It seems to me both Inciarte and Muk should be projected around .350. If you proceed from that, it makes sense to have Inciarte rather than Muk hit leadoff.

Holy crap, a .339 OPS would be the worst season in the history of baseball lol. I'm confident I could roll out there and post a .400+ OPS lol

[Enscheff]

Holy crap, a .339 OPS would be the worst season in the history of baseball lol. I'm confident I could roll out there and post a .400+ OPS lol

I'll take the under on your OPS!

I stepped in vs ~85 mph a few months ago at the age of 38. I have no idea how I ever handled 90+ mph in college 20 years ago haha.

I'm not sure I could even put a ball in play vs MLB pitching anymore. My OPS over 100 PAs would quite likely be .050-.100, all based on getting lucky enough to be walked or beaned at the league average walk rate of 8.5%.

[Horsehide Harry]

I'll take the under on your OPS!

I stepped in vs ~85 mph a few months ago at the age of 38. I have no idea how I ever handled 90+ mph in college 20 years ago haha.

I'm not sure I could even put a ball in play vs MLB pitching anymore. My OPS over 100 PAs would quite likely be .050-.100, all based on getting lucky enough to be walked or beaned at the league average walk rate of 8.5%.

Enscheff steps in at the plate....

CLVCLV steps in to throw.....

Enscheff - take your base, don't charge the mound

[zitothebrave]

When we upgrade in left (with Acuna moving to right) and third, I think it makes sense that one is a lefty and one is a righty hitter. Or one is a switch hitter. It would not make sense to get two righty hitters or two lefty hitters.

I think we should just focus on gettting the best possible value there regardless of how they hit. The Phillies won it all with Howard and Utley as their best players, yes they had right handed bats to counter them (Werth being the best) but they were the 3/4 hitters for Philly all through their peak. And Howard couldn't hit a lefty if he tried.